80 replies to this topic

[Doc Holiday]

IN THE WEEKS TO COME, CUATF WILL BE SPOTLIGHTING SENIOR MANAGERS WITHIN THE BUREAU. WE WILL BE HIGHLIGHTING THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND THE OBVIOUS ABUSES BY SES MANAGERS. MR. MELSON HAS STARTED THE PROCESS BUT HAS SHOWN THAT HE DOES NOT INTEND TO HOLD "THE BOYS CLUB" RESPONSIBLE. MS. LOSS REMAINS IN CHIEF COUNSELS OFFICE. MR. FORD WHO HAS REPEATEDLY LIED TO CONGRESS IS STILL IN PGA. DISPUTES PREDICTAED ON UNETHICAL PRACTICES GO UNRESOLVED. SERIOUSLY, MR. NEWELL, YOU COMMITTED AGENTS TO A BOMBING IN MEXICO AND COULDNT PROVIDE QUALIFIED AGENTS TO SUPPORT THE MEXICO MISSION AND ASKED "WHAT CAN I DO IF THEY REFUSE TO GO"? EDGAR, DID YOU HAVE MEDIA APPROVAL TO GO ON CNN? IS THE AGENCY COUNTER-SUING YOU? MR. MELSON, WHY IS MARK CHAIT STILL IN PLACE AFTER YOU HAVE NOW REALIZED HE HAS FILTERED INFORMATION TO YOU. WE ARE TRYING TO RE-INVIGORATE THIS BUREAU BUT ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. YOU LIED TO THE NATION ON CNN DUE TO POOR COUNSEL, NOW FIX IT.

[Doc Holiday]

We have watched and waited Mr.Melson. We have heard of the sweeping personnel changes coming in Chief counsels Office. We have been told you are reviewing the state of affairs related to retaliation and are going to demand accountability. We have been told you are assigning Jeff Sarnacki to be your reprisal Czar. These are all positive steps, but the road to hell is paved.............etc etc We need to see you resolve some of this past dirty business.

[Doc Holiday]

July 12, 2010
ATF Chief Takes Aim At Retaliation Claims

Scott Zamost Senior Investigative Producer.

For months, we investigated claims that ATF agents were the victims of retaliation for speaking up about alleged abuses in the agency. Filing a complaint got you ostracized, agents told us.Before our investigation, "ATF Under Fire" aired in May, the deputy director, Kenneth Melson, pledged to take any kind of alleged retaliation seriously, saying he would not tolerate it while he was in charge.In the interview with Investigative Correspondent Abbie Boudreau, he was clear: "And if there's somebody that's afraid that they're going to be retaliated against if they file or they complain about fraud, waste, abuse or illegal conduct they can come and talk to me about it and I'll make sure that not only will the investigation be conducted, but they won't be retaliated against.�Days before the story aired, Melson held his first webcast and told employees what he had promised to CNN: �I will not condone, or allow acts of retaliation by management for suggestions made by employees, expressions of concern, reports of misconduct � that�s not going to happen on my watch.�And he's followed up with a subsequent webcast in which he said, "One of the things we've done recently is to talk to Internal Affairs because I know there have been some concerns about what has happened to complaints to Internal Affairs about things that they've seen going on in ATF. They are now going to make sure that every time they receive a complaint from anyone in ATF that they acknowledge the receipt of that complaint so you know it hasn't gone into a black hole."Melson also acknowledged that communication with the department that handles discrimination complaints "can be improved." He said �so when someone files a complaint they will be notified and communicated with on a periodic basis so they know what (their) status is, what they can expect to happen in the next stage of their process."After meeting with representatives of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, he said "we all were in agreement on what some of the concerns were and we expressed to them many of the things that we're doing in order to address those concerns."Agents tell me that Melson is taking a proactive stance to address what they claim has been a culture of retaliation within ATF. They say the next several months will be critical to how this all plays out.Vince Cefalu, the agent we profiled in our story who says he was retaliated against for speaking up, is optimistic. As he writes on the cleanuatf.org website, "There are many and multiple accounts around the country that suggest Mr. Melson is a man of his word and suggest the matter discussed on (cleanupatf.org) and in person with Mr. Melson are receiving review."

[Doc Holiday]

Go to CNN.com/Justice. Please read the article "ATF Chief takes aim at retaliation claims". As alwaysN your thoughts from the field are welcomed and encouraged.

[x1811]

He could have been transferred or sent on a TDY. I'm sure if the court wants to grill him on what the locals told him or what else he knew he could get subpoenad. Interesting case though. I'll have to look it upto learn more. Thanks again for the insight.

[truthandgrace]

Thanks for the insight. I am still curious as to why the AUSA did not act to dump this case if she or he knew about problems with the locals. It would seem to me that not much would have changed from the time Cefalu blew the whistle to the time Carrol submitted the affidavit. My point here is that 1811's seem get thrown under the bus more often than AUSA's who actually quarterback such investigations when they get tot the Title III level do.

I wish I knew why the AUSA would choose to compromise their integrity and the Justice system for the sake of going along with....in the words of ASUA Montoya...the F***'n local yokel's. Maybe the promise of all those RICO counts....and all those indictments got the better of them. In my opinion....that makes them no better than the vendetta driven locals who sold the ATF...FBI...Judger Wanger and the Grand Jury...a corrupted and contrived bag of goods...packaged in a wiretap affidavit. Only Cefalu stepped up and put Justice first. You are correct in that there seems to have been no new information gained or written into the affidavit after Agent Cefalu left the case. Please look up the Road Dog Case and see for yourself the result of this multi-million dollar effort to (in the words of one local yokel DA investigator) "GET BOB HOLLOWAY AT ANY COST"!!
Please take note....that the local yokels...in an ad hoc task force and then the federally funded task force had made Mr. Holloway a target for over aa decade. I believe there is no way FBI Agent Carrol could have confirmed much of what he was told from the locals. He went with their word....or did he? He left one week before signing his name to the affidavit...it does make you wonder. I would like to ask Agent Carrol just what went on...and if he knew about Cefalu's concerns.

[x1811]

At one point in the investigation AUSA Montoya stated in an email to Agent Cefalu that she had no problem calling off the investigation because they had not come up with anything on the main target...Robert Holloway. Apparently she did not raise questions when the local LE found a FBI agent to sign his name to the wiretap affidavit. The AUSA's knew of Agent Cefalu's concern about the locals inappropriate push for wiretaps...but did nothing about it. Even stating that they did not know who the whistle blower was when forced to speak of it to the defense. Give me...or "Justice" a break! I think everyone involved in the investigation should be held accountable.

Thanks for the insight. I am still curious as to why the AUSA did not act to dump this case if she or he knew about problems with the locals. It would seem to me that not much would have changed from the time Cefalu blew the whistle to the time Carrol submitted the affidavit. My point here is that 1811's seem get thrown under the bus more often than AUSA's who actually quarterback such investigations when they get tot the Title III level do.

[truthandgrace]

Where was the AUSA in all of this? Typically in such cases the AUSA would have to approve the contents of the affidavit prior it going to the Magistrate for signature. Did the AUSA have the same information as Cefalu and Carrol? I'm not as familiar with this case as most of you seem to be.

At one point in the investigation AUSA Montoya stated in an email to Agent Cefalu that she had no problem calling off the investigation because they had not come up with anything on the main target...Robert Holloway. Apparently she did not raise questions when the local LE found a FBI agent to sign his name to the wiretap affidavit. The AUSA's knew of Agent Cefalu's concern about the locals inappropriate push for wiretaps...but did nothing about it. Even stating that they did not know who the whistle blower was when forced to speak of it to the defense. Give me...or "Justice" a break! I think everyone involved in the investigation should be held accountable.

[x1811]

Where was the AUSA in all of this? Typically in such cases the AUSA would have to approve the contents of the affidavit prior it going to the Magistrate for signature. Did the AUSA have the same information as Cefalu and Carrol? I'm not as familiar with this case as most of you seem to be.

[truthandgrace]

Road Dog Case main defendents (targets) take a plea on Tues. A hearing on the wiretape affidavit continued last Thurs. Big news is that the FBI agent who signed the affidavit did not write it. FBI agent Nathan Elias says he read it...and got daily updates on what the Task Force was doing. He admitted that he trusted the local LE to give him truthful information and that they were the source for most of the affidavit. Agent Elias's co/worker/lead in the case wrote the affidavit but left for Washington one week before Elias put his name on it and sent it to Judge Wagner in Fresno. What seems wrong here? This FBI agent...Carroll?...leaves the week before his affidavit is sent to the Judge...leaving his co/worker Elias to submit it as his own. What is wrong here? Did agent Carroll not play along with the locals....much like ATF Agent Cefalu? What made him leave without putting his name on the affidavit? Did this FBI agent Carroll have any contact with Agent Cefalu or the ATF UC's? Agent Elias admitted never talking to any of them about the investigation. Do any of you know what FBI Agent Carroll has to say on the subject? Was he a whistle blower on the affidavit like Agent Cefalu? Did he just go away...? My best to the Holloway Family, their friends and Agent Cefalu!!!

[truthandgrace]

Yes it will be interesting. None of the executives at ATF have the ability to admit that they did anything wrong (see CNN piece and review the comments of Melson and Domenech as a current example). That means they need a scapegoat. Enter Vince Cefalu.

A post by Doc Holiday says that Melson may indeed be looking into issues concerning Agent Cefalu since the CNN piece. There is a long way to go...but starting is a good thing. Unfortunately for the victims of the vendetta driven investigation that Agent Cefalu blew the whistle on...their very serious fight for justice and freedom is going on right now. I have serious doubts about the Judge. I know the government's prosecution team went along with the questionable affidavit....will they be held accountable? I am praying for justice for all involved. Somebody call CNN. They need a quote from Judge Wanger!

[truthandgrace]

The Road Dog Case in Fresno has been changed to Tues.the 22nd at 1:00PM. It will be interesting to see how this hearing on the wiretap affidavit will go. Agent Cefalu was retaliated against when he spoke up against using a wiretap.

[truthandgrace]

Thank you for that information Doc Holiday. That sounds encouraging. I realize it will take time...and I am happy to see it in the process.

[Doc Holiday]

The word is DD Melson, is taking the issues seriously and that he has in fact begun the process of fixing what is broken. Hopefully not too little too late. He knows he must clean up old bad acts before we can move past where we are. We must give him reasonable time. We will see.

[truthandgrace]

I want to make it clear...that Judge Wanger's remarks were not made in the vein of "bulldog of an officer". The normally dry and reserve Wanger lost his cool as his rant went from views of the local task force concerning Agent Cefalu...disgrountled employee...one who doesn't like wiretap paper work...and then his final ugly remarks! It was pretty obvious that he had seen the CNN coverage...and did not approve. I think Wanger should be taking his anger out on the FBI Agent who submitted the wiretap affidavit....and the locals who strung him along with false information. Actually...I am hoping and praying that will happen. Regardless...it is both disturbing and scary that a federal Judge would attack an Agent and seemingly use this as a base for his ruling on evidence previously submitted. For those of you aware of this case...Wanger is the only one I know...who still believes there was a sticker! Scary stuff!!! I believe the last ATF Agent who testified in this case...Agent Peralta...admitted destroying audio tapes of the ATF UC's and the defendents. Why? He wasn't aware of he very public indictments that went down at the time...it had been a year...ATF was off the case....and although he had never done it before...he was simply cleaning house...with approval of course from his supervisor...had to get that in. Agent Cafalu was the only local ATF Agent who was credible on the stand. You only have to go as far as this site's wall of shame to see some of his supervisor's testimony (Downs). My best to Agent Cefalu!!!

[truthandgrace]

The case currently in the UNITED STATE DISTRICT COURT, FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA, in Fresno CA, that ATF Agent Vince Cefalu blew the whistle on (illegal wiretap affidavit)...had a hearing yesterday at 2:30pm. It is Case No. CR-08-00224-OWW....UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, PLAINTIFF, VS. ROBERT HOLLOWAY, ET. AL., Defendents. You can find documents pertaining to the case on the PACER website. Just as the defendent's Attorney was to begin statements on the MOTION TO SUPRESS WIRETAPS PUSUANT TO FRANKS V. DELAWARE; REQUEST FOR EVIDENTIARY HEARING...JUDGE OLIVER WANGER...delivered a diatribe against decorated ATF Agent Cefalu. Judge Wanger ended his disparaging remarks by stating that Agent Cefalu was a "maverick" and a "JUNK YARD DOG"!!! Loud gasps were heard after Wanger's remarks. It is obvious that retaliation for whistle blowing is wide spread...and has reached Fresno! Shame on Judge Wanger!!! How unprofessional!! I hope CNN gives him a call!!!

[Thor God of Thunder]

I believe Mr. Melson is sincere in his efforts. The question remains will he be successful. The career staff is waiting him out to see when he will leave so that they can get back to business as usual.

[Doc Holiday]

Mr. Melson, its clear that you are getting the message(according to you) on your most recent webcast. Now what are you prepared to do about it?

[Thor God of Thunder]

corrections1, on 04 June 2010 - 05:08 PM, said: pseudonames. Pseudonym - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia- A pseudonym is a fictitious name used by a person, or sometimes, a group. Pseudonyms are often used to hide an individual's real identity, as with writers' ...

[Thor God of Thunder]

CNN Anderson Cooper 360 was AWESOME!!! It verified and laid out the culture of retaliation by talking to "dozens" of agents around the country. The best part was when Vince Cefalu taped himself doing nothing for 5 days in his office. If he was benefitting personally from not doing anything, he would not tell on himself. Some people can be mad about this story but I think that if an employee is being purposely isolated like Mr. Cefalu is and they find it a waste of their time, they should feel free to report it and to let the tax payer know that this is what their $150k a year is being wasted.

Mr. Cefalu Are you doing anything....now?

Agent Andrades saying "bullshit" on national tv was AWESOME. He looked scared and I think that he caught himself but then said, screw it you only live once or this is my 15 minutes of fame, and went ahead and said it.

Mr. Domenech demonstrated that retaliation can happen at any level, even at the Deputy Director level,if you are not with the so called program or drinking the kool aid. He had the opportunity to taste a little bit of his own medicine. I wonder if he like it or found it as disgusting as the rest of the employees of this agency that has ever tasted this retlation medicine.

I stand by this post.


To all three of them, I take my hat off to you. I give you credit for takig a stand against this illegal employer practice. From personal experience I know, like others, that it is not easy to come forward and takes a lot of courage. As stated in the CNN piece, you are comitting "CAREER SUICIDE"!

I understand that most of the employees are glad that this "dark little secret" is finally out and is no longer a "dark little secret". Keep up the good work!!!

[corrections1]

To all three of them, I take my hat off to you. I give you credit for takig a stand against this illegal employer practice. From personal experience I know, like others, that it is not easy to come forward and takes a lot of courage. As stated in the CNN piece, you are comitting "CAREER SUICIDE"!

[Thor God of Thunder]

CNN Anderson Cooper 360 was AWESOME!!! It verified and laid out the culture of retaliation by talking to "dozens" of agents around the country. The best part was when Vince Cefalu taped himself doing nothing for 5 days in his office. If he was benefitting personally from not doing anything, he would not tell on himself. Some people can be mad about this story but I think that if an employee is being purposely isolated like Mr. Cefalu is and they find it a waste of their time, they should feel free to report it and to let the tax payer know that this is what their $150k a year is being wasted.

Mr. Cefalu Are you doing anything....now?

Agent Andrades saying "bullshit" on national tv was AWESOME. He looked scared and I think that he caught himself but then said, screw it you only live once or this is my 15 minutes of fame, and went ahead and said it.

Mr. Domenech demonstrated that retaliation can happen at any level, even at the Deputy Director level,if you are not with the so called program or drinking the kool aid. He had the opportunity to taste a little bit of his own medicine. I wonder if he like it or found it as disgusting as the rest of the employees of this agency that has ever tasted this retlation medicine.


To all three of them, I take my hat off to you. I give you credit for takig a stand against this illegal employer practice. From personal experience I know, like others, that it is not easy to come forward and takes a lot of courage. As stated in the CNN piece, you are comitting "CAREER SUICIDE"!

I understand that most of the employees are glad that this "dark little secret" is finally out and is no longer a "dark little secret". Keep up the good work!!!

[abteilung]

pseudonames.

Your opinions might actually get some respect if YOU KNEW HOW TO SPELL.

But then again, you don't need a degree to work in a jail.

Bet you visit all kinds of on-line forums, bad-mouthing not only ATF, but FBI, DEA, NCIS and so on -- you know, all those agencies to which you applied and were repeatedly REJECTED, and for which you now have a permanent bug up your ass.

And I bet your co-workers at your jail hate you too, you overbearing know-it-all.

[Doc Holiday]

Corrections1, you are embarrasing yourself. Please either I'd yourself and stop your name calling or go to your agencys website and remind them how you stood up to abuses. Based on your lock step don't challenge abuses attitude, I'm thinking your opinion was whatever the bosses told you it was. We however are REQUIRED to have college degrees. That's not so others can think for us. Either contribute with substance or you are outta here. We have enough narcisitic wannabe leaders right here at ATF.

[Cool Hand]

Hey C1...didn't you bid your farewell? You sure have an axe to grind for someone complaining about folks with an axe to grind. You're a "criminal investigator" and a manager, right? Just what have you done to make your former agencies such outstanding places to work? Did you send your resume to the Director and your Congressman? Lets hear all about it. Obviously, you have no concerns about our agency's retaliatory behavior, so let's hear...openly...all about you and your heroism and your loyal service to this great country. You're dying for a forum aren't you?. Come save us. This is your chance. Otherwise, bid your farewell and mean it.

[corrections1]

For all you Special Agents who like posting, here are your answers in three words: disgruntled employees, slugs...

[Loki]

I want to thank you Mr. Melson for mentioning my pseudonym on CNN. Mr. Melson, you should hold your executives accountable and responsible for their adverse personnel actions and/or acts of vengeance. It is unfortunate that this situation has deteriorated to this. I look forward to the day that ATF rebuilds its credibility with its employees and the rest of the American public. If a statement is taken out of context or slanted, in what context or non-slanted manner was it said? What exactly was said? Do you have that information? Would you be willing to share this with us? Due to the culture of retaliation, the nature and the premise on which this website was developed, it is okay not to reveal your identity, if you choose not to. Most of the participants on this website have chose not to reveal their identities and it is okay. I believe that there are some that would like to know what location to point the nuclear missiles at or what target to direct the drone kill to. Although as tempting as your offer to come and talk to you may be, I must decline, at this time. How do you know that I have not met with you already? I hope that at some point there is an environment where I can meet with you again. Until then, verifying something is more than just asking a Special Agent in Charge or Assistant Director (Field Operations)or a Chief in HQ, you need to start asking and meeting with the employees directly. Especially, if it is something as significant as to cause you to have to answer charges on CNN. You have already found yourself that some of your trusted advisers are not to be and can not be trusted.

Any answers?

[Loki]

Corrections 1 you are very distracting and a nuisance!

[Doc Holiday]

Has anyone from ATF answered SA Cefalus earlier question? It seemed pretty straight forward. I for one don't see ANY performance OR disciplinary issues. What's the deal here.

[truthandgrace]

Corrections1...your comments are so far off! "I empathize with the lot of you, but this isn't the forum to air your grievances. I am just another John with a law enforcement background that took pause when I saw the CNN piece. But, since then, I have found myself totally disgusted by what I've seen, what I've read, and what I've learned. I pay my taxes, and it pisses me off to no end to see someone like Cefalu on television pulling $150,000 a year with his feet kicked up on the desk, not having done squat for what? Weeks?!!! And, I can almost guarantee you that he and your peers didn't endear themselves to the general public." I should not be spending this much time on a response to you...but this is really for all the others on this forum saying..."unbelievably clueless"...to what you have written! I have a suggestion for you....go read Down's testimony on the Wall of Shame...and get a little bit of what Agent Cefalu is speaking up about. So glad you will not be back.

[abteilung]

You needn't reply. I'm not coming back.

I think this says it all about Corrections1. Nothing says "Bravery" like someone who drops a few inflammatory comments and runs.

As for forum members "hiding" behind pseudonyms, in that somehow that makes our complaints somehow less legitimate, well, on how many webforums out there, on how many Comment sections on any news organization website, do contributors use their actual name?

Corrections1 should do as she says. Let's have a name and a CV and let us judge YOU.

[corrections1]

Oh, thanks so much, Jumper, for your graciousness, but a retired criminal investigator at this end. And, Congress does have oversight of the ATF through the Senate Judiciary Committee. I would be just as thrilled as you and your fellow cohorts if the committee initiated its own investigation and began serving subpoenaes on your agency leadership and middle management. I do agree in some small part that poor leadership flows from the top down, and my guess would be that a lot of your middle managers got there, not because of what they knew but who they knew. I empathize with the lot of you, but this isn't the forum to air your grievances. I am just another John with a law enforcement background that took pause when I saw the CNN piece. But, since then, I have found myself totally disgusted by what I've seen, what I've read, and what I've learned. I pay my taxes, and it pisses me off to no end to see someone like Cefalu on television pulling $150,000 a year with his feet kicked up on the desk, not having done squat for what? Weeks?!!! And, I can almost guarantee you that he and your peers didn't endear themselves to the general public. I'm telling you that because I didn't find him endearing. He looked washed up and with never another opportunity to go undercover. Gheez his face is now pasted all over the United States. He's nothing more than a wasted asset now. Do you guys ever think before you act?! I am faxing my resume over to your DD on Tuesday, with a letter encouraging him to open an investigation. I would love to come out of retirement to do those investigatories. Some of you need to be immediately placed on administrative leave with pay pending the outcome of an investigation. I'm really surprised that your staff attorneys aren't on top of this. What bumbling idiots does the ATF have for labor relations specialists and staff attorneys? No, Jumper, you guys really aren't worth much more time. Just thought I'd put my two cents in there as an average citizen who stubbed his big toe on this story. I have nothing but trash to say about your DD, who does look like he's retaliating against ATF personnel. But, I have as much trash to say about your middle managers and those agents who have posted here. If you really want to accomplish something and not look soooooo stupid, why don't ten or twelve of you guys get together, hire a top notch law firm from D.C., and then go on a road trip? If you keep sending your Cefalues, you better come up with a better story or some catchy angle. Otherwise, your whole movement is going to tank. You needn't reply. I'm not coming back. But, oh, I will be making those calls on Tuesday. If you guys feel so much like politicians, then, by all means, let's politicize the hell out of your anguish.

[corrections1]

No, I'm not one of your managers. And, yes, thank God for free speech in American. It allows people like me to sit on the outside looking in and being able to make the assessment that you guys just don't get it, do you? Do you have any idea how much damage you are doing to yourselves and your agency? By reading what I have here, you apparently just don't care. Brazzen attitudes like that kill innocent civilians. Keep rocking on, gunslingers! How pathetic.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Were you referring to the cowardice of hiding behind corrections 1? You sound like the managers we are challeging. You haven't even read the after action report about Waco, even though its been published, can be found in any library and is cataloged in the Library of congress. For the record, our agents are gunslingersand they are the best this country has to offer. We are the only agency that willingly and without reservation inv ite the most violent predators in society to come to the table armed. Just say thank you.

[corrections1]

NYCWebslinger, Indeed, there are plenty of foul ups to go around. I remember 9/11, Richard Jewell, and most recently the Ft. Hood shootings (not sure how that plugs in here), but also remember the U.S. Marshall Service's and the FBI's foul ups at Ruby Ridge. The ATF was heavily immersed in that case. Most of us remember more so the incompetent leadership the ATF provided when serving warrants against the Branch Davidian ranch in Waco, Texas, though. I would have liked to have read the after-action reports on how all those Davidian men, women, and children were killed and who was responsible for those killings. How did the ATF grow and learn from that fiasco? My guess would be very little if at all. There is a statistic that some of your agents throw out there, so I am going to throw it back at you. You guys stand on your reputation. Purportedly, the issues you guys are complaining about are being done by just ten percent of your agents and management personnel, that 90% go on duty every day doing their job like they are supposed to. I stand on my previous convictions that I've provided below and will tell you that I would not be reading any of this garbage on here or watching any reports on CNN like I did last night if 90 percent of your agents and management personnel were "doing their job." But, you know what is even more disgusting? You gunslingers (because some of you mistakenly believe you still are old style western gunslingers), you hide behind Internet websites like this because of nothing short of cowardice. If you feel so strong about your convictions, and these convictions are supposed to be so factual and accurate, step up to the plate and report them like real men -- with names attached to your reports!

[nycwebslinger]

Saying that Mr. Cefalu looked lazy in CNN's piece would be an understatment. Thanks to your story, I've been brought to this website and read a vast majority of the posts here. I come away with the distinct impression that you guys can't see the forest for the trees. I have worked an aggregate of thirty-three years with the military and law enforcement. More than a decade has been spent directly in law enforcement and the last eight in management. I have never seen a federal agency such as yours suffering from such political infighting, mismanagement, and unlawful conduct. I'm glad that I saw this segment. I think it needs to come to the attention of Congress, and perhaps Congress should do its own investigating. I can assure that when Tuesday rolls around, I'll be picking up that phone to contact a congressman, a couple of senators, and a few other important politicians from this area. In looking at the ATF's mission statememtn, I fail to understand why your mission cannot be completed by a consolidation of your agency with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and such will be my recommendation to my local reps. In this age when the lack of cooperation between agencies can literally be debilitating for this country, we Americans cannot afford poor performance from a leaderless agency such as the ATF. Also, all of you agents on here posting, you should be absolutely ashamed of your behavior. As the Deputy Director, I would open a criminal investigation and target this website and start reeling you all in, one by one if necessary. There is free speech, but all of your bellyaching on this site amounts to nothing more than a violation of the oaths many of you took to work for this agency. If you don't think your boss can come after you on a website like this, think again. Other law enforcement agencies have done it. I'm surprised your DD has taken so long to do anything about it. There is the law and then there are employee standards to adhere to. In the totality of what has been exposed by CNN and what you are doing here, I am completely appalled and sincerely think that your agency should be abolished in lieu of larger "super" bureau. Then, there can be better accountability and we won't be wasting our taxpayer dollars and piss poor performers such as you ATF agents posting here. Be glad I'm not the president, your DD and a whole lot more of you would have more questions to answer by the end of the day. The ATF. From the top of your organization to the bottom, what a complete disgrace to the American people and her taxpayers!!!!

Corrections1:

At first I was angered by your comments but then I thought about it a minute or two and laughed. You obviously are a misguided, ignorant person making the comments you are posting. This web site was intended, I think to shed some light on the abuses going on in OUR agency. Outsiders like you who have no stake in what happens day to day can not understand the frustration and despair that some of us feel. You see we are not, "bellyaching". Most of us have stood up in the light of day to unethical and unlawful abuses of power and did it through the proper channels. The reason this site exists is because the "proper channels" to report misconduct in ATF have been corrupted. Many upper managers are deaf to legitimate complaints and hold themselves to different standards. I dont think you get that.

In the first CNN piece it was not made clear that ATF managers were "idleing" SA Cefelu. The second piece was much better in articulating the issues at hand. He is not there because he wants to be there. He is FORCED to be in the office all day.

You then threaten to make complaints to your local politicos. Goood thats what we want to happen. Why, because we know when someone in a postion of oversight looks at the situation they will come to the same conclusions as we do. You talk about the taxpayers not getting their moneys worth but I will tell you the facts don't support your arguement. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, ATF agents generate more cases per agent and are more efficient, IN SPITE OF our agency's shortcomings, lack of funding, lack of equipment, etc. than many of our counterparts.

I could give you many examples of well known foul ups by other federal, state, and local agencies, like the FBI. Do you remember the September 11th attacks? Do you recall the Ft. Hood Shootings? Do you recall Richard Jewell?? I could go on and on.

I could tell you about all the good ATF does, like uncovering key evidence that solved the first WTC bombing. Identifying Tim McVeigh as the primary suspect in the Oak City Bombing or most recently arresting two subjects for setting a rash of church fires. Poor judgement is exercised in private industry too. Just look at Wall Street. In private industry, no one is publically accountable anymore, Congress just authorizes another bailout. THAT IS REALLY WHAT SHOULD MAKE TAXPAYERS ANGRY. We at ATF are scrutinzed daily due to our controversial jurisdiction. I think we do OK if you care to look beyond the rhetoric and consider the facts.

The truth is there ARE good supervisors, BUT there are not enough of them in the key decision making positions in our agency at this time. Moreover, managers have become overly reliant on lawyers who have a track record of not always following the law or telling the truth. Bottom line Correction 1, bring it on! You are not the first or the last to wish us away, but we are, and will, still be here day in and day out defending the citizens of the United States from it's most violent criminals.

[Doc Holiday]

Corrections1, your opinion is welcome. You suggest that the men and women who are trying to make ATF better, are somehow violating some oath. I'm sure we both took the same oath. To protect and defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. You point out that we are a rudderless ship and should be absord and then turn around and attack the people who are trying to right the ship. Our oath is not to ONE of our bosses or Deputy directors. It is to the United States of America and the Law. If our bosses are breaking the law.......................By your lock step approach, you suggest that the FBI Agent who exposed former President Nixon and or Frank Serpico violated their oaths as well. Time to do some soul searching. You have been doing this long enough to know better.

[Jay Dobyns]

Saying that Mr. Cefalu looked lazy in CNN's piece would be an understatment. Thanks to your story, I've been brought to this website and read a vast majority of the posts here. I come away with the distinct impression that you guys can't see the forest for the trees. I have worked an aggregate of thirty-three years with the military and law enforcement. More than a decade has been spent directly in law enforcement and the last eight in management. I have never seen a federal agency such as yours suffering from such political infighting, mismanagement, and unlawful conduct. I'm glad that I saw this segment. I think it needs to come to the attention of Congress, and perhaps Congress should do its own investigating. I can assure that when Tuesday rolls around, I'll be picking up that phone to contact a congressman, a couple of senators, and a few other important politicians from this area. In looking at the ATF's mission statememtn, I fail to understand why your mission cannot be completed by a consolidation of your agency with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and such will be my recommendation to my local reps. In this age when the lack of cooperation between agencies can literally be debilitating for this country, we Americans cannot afford poor performance from a leaderless agency such as the ATF. Also, all of you agents on here posting, you should be absolutely ashamed of your behavior. As the Deputy Director, I would open a criminal investigation and target this website and start reeling you all in, one by one if necessary. There is free speech, but all of your bellyaching on this site amounts to nothing more than a violation of the oaths many of you took to work for this agency. If you don't think your boss can come after you on a website like this, think again. Other law enforcement agencies have done it. I'm surprised your DD has taken so long to do anything about it. There is the law and then there are employee standards to adhere to. In the totality of what has been exposed by CNN and what you are doing here, I am completely appalled and sincerely think that your agency should be abolished in lieu of larger "super" bureau. Then, there can be better accountability and we won't be wasting our taxpayer dollars and piss poor performers such as you ATF agents posting here. Be glad I'm not the president, your DD and a whole lot more of you would have more questions to answer by the end of the day. The ATF. From the top of your organization to the bottom, what a complete disgrace to the American people and her taxpayers!!!!

Thanks for your insights Corrections1. Much of what you say is true. Other portions demonstrate that your assessment is based just on the CNN piece. That was CNN giving 20 minutes of air time trying to address 20 years of abuse.

There is quite a bit wrong with ATF but there is still way more right. ATF is worth saving and as said below in the post from microscope, worth fighting for.

Vince lazy? I understand how, based on the CNN piece alone you might form that conclusion but you missed the point. His bosses intentionally put him in that spot with nothing to do. He actually begged for a work assignment but was told no, stay put. It is called 'ideling' and it is against the law to use it as punishment for whistleblowing.

With 6 years of serving in the Marines and another 30 in law enforcement (24 as an ATF Agent), I know for a fact that Vince is and was one of the hardest working, self-starting, ass-kicking street agents in ATF history. The harshest punishment you can give to a guy like that is to put him in a cage with mundane tasks and that is exactly what they did.

Continue to slam Vince if you want. He's a big boy, he can take anything you or anyone else throws at him. Just understand the totality of what you are talking about. Thanks for weighing in.

I have been a critic of ATF's mismanagement but for you to describe ATF from top to bottom being a waste, well - the next time you are not shot by a felon with a gun while pumping gas; the next time the door of your house is not kicked in by a home invasion crew; the next time your neighbor doesn't blow up the hood with a home made bomb; the next time a gang is taken out of play in your city; the next time a drive-by in your town is investigated using the world's most sophisticated ballistic technology; the next time a murder-for-hire plot targeting someone you know is foiled; the next time an ex-con is not selling drugs near your kids school with a pistol in his back pocket - thank an ATF Agent.

[corrections1]

Saying that Mr. Cefalu looked lazy in CNN's piece would be an understatment. Thanks to your story, I've been brought to this website and read a vast majority of the posts here. I come away with the distinct impression that you guys can't see the forest for the trees. I have worked an aggregate of thirty-three years with the military and law enforcement. More than a decade has been spent directly in law enforcement and the last eight in management. I have never seen a federal agency such as yours suffering from such political infighting, mismanagement, and unlawful conduct. I'm glad that I saw this segment. I think it needs to come to the attention of Congress, and perhaps Congress should do its own investigating. I can assure that when Tuesday rolls around, I'll be picking up that phone to contact a congressman, a couple of senators, and a few other important politicians from this area. In looking at the ATF's mission statememtn, I fail to understand why your mission cannot be completed by a consolidation of your agency with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and such will be my recommendation to my local reps. In this age when the lack of cooperation between agencies can literally be debilitating for this country, we Americans cannot afford poor performance from a leaderless agency such as the ATF. Also, all of you agents on here posting, you should be absolutely ashamed of your behavior. As the Deputy Director, I would open a criminal investigation and target this website and start reeling you all in, one by one if necessary. There is free speech, but all of your bellyaching on this site amounts to nothing more than a violation of the oaths many of you took to work for this agency. If you don't think your boss can come after you on a website like this, think again. Other law enforcement agencies have done it. I'm surprised your DD has taken so long to do anything about it. There is the law and then there are employee standards to adhere to. In the totality of what has been exposed by CNN and what you are doing here, I am completely appalled and sincerely think that your agency should be abolished in lieu of larger "super" bureau. Then, there can be better accountability and we won't be wasting our taxpayer dollars and piss poor performers such as you ATF agents posting here. Be glad I'm not the president, your DD and a whole lot more of you would have more questions to answer by the end of the day. The ATF. From the top of your organization to the bottom, what a complete disgrace to the American people and her taxpayers!!!!

[corrections1]

Got to be honest I had greater expectations for the CCN news story. I don't think it was as effective as it could have been because it was very limited in scope. From what I heard dozens of personnel were interviewed by CNN butonly 3 make it to the video segment. Moreover, to the general public and uninitiated it makes SA Cefelu look like he is lazy. Sorry but some civilians I know made that comment after seeing the segment. Again, we shoot ourselves in the foot. All I can say is that over the past 12 years in ATF I have seen alot of disgraceful things happen to good people who love their country and love the job. I still love going to work, but what I detest is the complete and total incompetance of managment. WHY IS NO ONE DISCUSSING THE AC? We get the managment we deserve!!! The AC has been compromised by management!!! They have allowed HUMMRO to provide training to SELECT groups of agents while implementing a manual order that prohibits the dissemination of test taking tips, strategy, etc. WHY IS NO ONE ON THIS WEBSITE TALKING ABOUT IT. I have talked to many people around the country that are fed up with HOW we select out managers and the complete and total disregard for fairness and integrity in the GS14 assessment center. The best way I can describe it was from a 14 that I know who was there evaluating the AC who described it as "A Joke". Any other thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

[nycwebslinger]

Mr. Melson,
In 24 yrs, I have had ONE (one day)suspension over 10 yrs ago and ONE letter of caution and 11 Special act or Achievement awards. I have convicted 100% of my defendants and have written and executed more search warrants than any other Agent in any group I have been assigned to. These are the FACTS. Did you bother to pull my official personnel file before you allowed "the Bureau to state that I had disciplinary and performance issues"? Or did you just ask Ms. Loos? I guess 20+ yrs of EXCEEDS fully satisfactory evaluations constitues poor performance?

Vince:

We dont know each other but I want to commend you for your courage and integrity. It takes alot to stand up in ATF and tell the truth. As I have discussed with many brother and sister agents, they should just start foot stomping and making air quotes at the academy when they start the ethics and integrity block in NAT. We all know that mgmt. doesnt want to hear the truth, they just want to keep things quiet and move up and on with their careers. When things get tough pleae know that many of us are pulling for you and are fighting back as best we can on our own.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Mr. Melson, In 24 yrs, I have had ONE (one day)suspension over 10 yrs ago and ONE letter of caution and 11 Special act or Achievement awards. I have convicted 100% of my defendants and have written and executed more search warrants than any other Agent in any group I have been assigned to. These are the FACTS. Did you bother to pull my official personnel file before you allowed "the Bureau to state that I had disciplinary and performance issues"? Or did you just ask Ms. Loos? I guess 20+ yrs of EXCEEDS fully satisfactory evaluations constitues poor performance?

[Doc Holiday]

Thor is correct. Did you interview even one person who was present at Ms. Loos' training before you denied it happened or was slanted? I bet not. The mentality of who's saying it and not what's being said is retaliatory in and of itself. Do you really believe anyone is going to stick their neck out after Mr. Domenech's Career suicide comment? If he settled, why is he still speaking out?

[Thor God of Thunder]

I want to thank you Mr. Melson for mentioning my pseudonym on CNN. Mr. Melson, you should hold your executives accountable and responsible for their adverse personnel actions and/or acts of vengeance. It is unfortunate that this situation has deteriorated to this. I look forward to the day that ATF rebuilds its credibility with its employees and the rest of the American public. If a statement is taken out of context or slanted, in what context or non-slanted manner was it said? What exactly was said? Do you have that information? Would you be willing to share this with us? Due to the culture of retaliation, the nature and the premise on which this website was developed, it is okay not to reveal your identity, if you choose not to. Most of the participants on this website have chose not to reveal their identities and it is okay. I believe that there are some that would like to know what location to point the nuclear missiles at or what target to direct the drone kill to. Although as tempting as your offer to come and talk to you may be, I must decline, at this time. How do you know that I have not met with you already? I hope that at some point there is an environment where I can meet with you again. Until then, verifying something is more than just asking a Special Agent in Charge or Assistant Director (Field Operations)or a Chief in HQ, you need to start asking and meeting with the employees directly. Especially, if it is something as significant as to cause you to have to answer charges on CNN. You have already found yourself that some of your trusted advisers are not to be and can not be trusted.

[Doc Holiday]

In a less than perfect world, CNN did a good job capturing the high points. Its clear we have a DD who either doesn't know or doesn't care. No one viewing the story bought his open door policy. Rest assured this was ONLY the beginning. What you will see next will be more far reaching and comprehensive related to the state of the Bureau and its mismanagement. PS Mr. Melson we have approached you countless times. It doesn't matter if they were retired or have a complaint pending, as long as you don't discuss the case. You can't just talk and make it so.