290 replies to this topic

[Jumper]

The points of x1811 below are well taken.  The last lines though got me.  Yes things could be worse.  Yes we are lucky to have guaranteed pensions and benefits.  But, for so many of us, this job was never about the perks.  That's never been enough for ATF Agents and it should not be now.  We never compared ourselves to INS, Customs or FBI agents.  They compared themselves to us.  We might have been cowboys but we kicked serious ass.  It sucks being mediocre.  I'll leave it at that.

The Agent Haters Club (SAC's and ASAC's, not all of them, about 90%) are meeting in DC this week.  Here is what to expect.  Everything is fine.  We are doing a great job and are well respected at DOJ.  We do not harrass or retaliate.  Moral is at an all time high.  Some moves are going to be made in the near future.  They are working on the problems of the agency and doing all that is possible to improve.  Be patient, change takes time.  We need to cut money and we have sent several ideas on how to do that to main Justice.  Southwest border issues are a priority.  We don't know what the status of our Director is.  DOJ has asked us not to talk about it.  We are one big family.

I guess I could keep going but you have all heard it before.  It's the SES's broken record.  When was the last time any of us heard anything interesting, different, dynamic, aggressive, sincere or even possessing a remote possiblity of creating some inspiration for field agent from any of these guys?

Hey you SES's (again, most, not all) resign and give ATF a chance.  Your club is viewed as windbags, liars, cowards, "just say no", insecure, out of touch, never did much but tell great glory stories, pat each other on the backs, vanilla pudding milktoast, bunch of empty suited asskissers who got to where you are by friends not actions, intelligence, experience, leadership or guts.  Tell me I'm wrong and I'll list 30 of you right off the top of my head who the previous description would fit like a glove.  I'd bet a weeks pay that each of your field divisions gets more done with you guys out of the office this week than it ever would have with you in it.

Lead and do it now or get your sissy punk asses out of the way and let someone else try.  Especially you guys who are doing nothing but hanging around waiting for the best corporate opportunity to come your way.  You know who you are.  So do we.

[x1811]

abteilung, on 08 August 2010 - 12:07 PM, said:

There comes a point where standing up for what's right becomes a fruitless endeavor.  Me, I've come to the point where I don't want to endure any more of this stuff.  Retaliation is rampant.  SES's are more interested in their personal comfort and careers than in actually fulfilling our mission -- after all, what agency gives up part of its jurisdiction without a fight?  We just did --don't tell me that HQ wasn't half-hearted in defending our explosives jurisdiction.  I bet a lot of our SES's are glad to see it gone.  Anyway, I need to start looking for another agency.  I know that other agencies aren't much better -- everyone in the Postal Inspectors is bailing out, and ICE just had a vote of no confidence in Morton -- but it can't be much worse elsewhere.

This will probably not be popular with many readers, but is an objective point of view.  My father was a special agent bomb technician and instructor with the FBI during his 30 year career.  He became one in the mid 1960's and worked many such cases.  To say that explosives are, or was, the exclusive jurisdiction of ATF is incorrect. Yes the FBI/ATF explosives turf war is a conundrum (a seemingly unsolvable problem).  Postal Inspectors also maintain a robust bomb/explosives profile.  They were very prominent in the Ted Kazcynski case. Imagine how the DEA feels about losing its previously exclusive jurisdiction in drug cases to the ATF, ICE (legacy Customs) and FBI feels. In the 1980's the FBI was ordered to share jurisdiction of financial crimes with the Secret Service. ICE is in the middle of an internal struggle between the Customs guys and the Immigration (INS) guys after both agencies were merged. The point is that all federal law enforcement jurisdictions are blurred. Try to understand the many MOU's that are signed between agencies dictating who does what. The AUSA's never cared who brought what case to them, they usually got prosecuted. I remember back in the 1980's having been required to report bomb threats to the Secret Service before working such cases. ATF will always have jurisdiction in bomb cases because of the level of expertise the ATF has acheived.  My son is a Marine in a combat engineering battalion in Afghanistan.  His training by the ATF was instrumental for his job.  I myself was part of a CEXC unit in Iraq on two TDY's.  While there I worked with many talented EOD's from the Navy, Army, Air Force, ATF and the FBI.  Once this organization gets it's management house in order and the Administration gets around to appointing a permanent Director, things should get better.  Kicking the ATF from Treasury to Homeland Security to Justice during my time as a fed will make anyone's head spin. With many agencies competing for fewer resources, I feel that the ATF is fighting for its own survival at his point in time. So where to go?  With the revenue losses mounting in the Postal Service, Postal Inspectors may not be around for long.  This Administration's policy on immigration is hand cuffing ICE and will prohibit them from doing what they were hired to do. DEA has not hired any agents for two years.  The Marshals have frozen their hiring and limited it to admitting interns. The FBI is testing but cutting back in new hires; instead they are hiring intelligence analysts. The Secret Service is only hiring for their uniformed division. If you are an 1811, my advice to all is stay put, suck it up, and try to make it to retirement. There is no such thing as a perfect agency. Things could be much worse than they are. We are all lucky to have guarunteed pensions and benefits.

[abteilung]

There comes a point where standing up for what's right becomes a fruitless endeavor.  Me, I've come to the point where I don't want to endure any more of this stuff.  Retaliation is rampant.  SES's are more interested in their personal comfort and careers than in actually fulfilling our mission -- after all, what agency gives up part of its jurisdiction without a fight?  We just did --don't tell me that HQ wasn't half-hearted in defending our explosives jurisdiction.  I bet a lot of our SES's are glad to see it gone.  Anyway, I need to start looking for another agency.  I know that other agencies aren't much better -- everyone in the Postal Inspectors is bailing out, and ICE just had a vote of no confidence in Morton -- but it can't be much worse elsewhere.

[Hiram A]

All I will say is that there is a double standard!

All of the rules apply to me....
None of the rules apply to them

Words like ethics, integrity, laws, policies, directives, rules and regulations
All apply to me but do not and never apply to them

When I take a stand I am disgruntled...
When they take a stand, they show leadership

When I complain...I am a whiner.
When they complain...they have some valid concerns.

When I assert discrimination...
They respond with retaliation!

No growth, no budget, no equipment, no training.
They still wonder why they find themselves in this sad state of affairs.

In my opinion, if they were smarter, they would work harder and not try to compete with the FBI.  There is no competition 5k employees to 20k employees. No competition at all!

When they benefit from the double standard, it is good.
When they are damaged from the double standard, it is bad.

All I will say is that there is a double standard.

This is Hiram Andrades reporting to you live from Washington, DC for Cleanup ATF.org!

[abteilung]

Corny, on 03 August 2010 - 06:35 PM, said:

That is one of the dozens of reasons Chait has to go.  How he got to the ADFO in the first place will remain one of lifes great mysteries.

They're just going to love Chait in Philadelphia.  Lucky guys!

[microscope]

onesparkz, on 05 August 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

I heard BATFE Agent Jay Dobyns on the G. Gordon Liddy satellite radio show today.  I am not sure the BATFE could find a more articulate and interesting person to go before the public.  After the treatment that he has recieved from the BATFE he somehow managed to be very positive and flattering of BATFE and raved about BATFE's agents commitment to confronting violent crime. A copy of that interview should be played for Eric Holder so he can see that he is fighting the wrong guy.

Melson, Loos and the DOJ attorneys are the villians here.  Melson watches his agents fry and blames it on past administrations or jumps in late (see Will Clark).  Loos hates agents and orchestrated the the current prosecution of Dobyns (again Melson just watched and even though this retalation took place on during his tenure, he says no retaliation that he is aware of has taken place during his time at ATF).  The DOJ attorney is going to be on wrong side of history on this case for fighting to destroy a dedicated public servant just because he thinks he can.

[Doc Holiday]

Mr. Melson,
     You have openly acknowledge to many people you misled CNN (intentionally or otherwise). You have been advised by multiple sources that your and the agencys credibility is at stake, yet all you have done is spoken out on a couple webcasts and resolved no disputes predicated on the practices and the people who caused you to make false statements to CNN. We trusted you and expect you to resolve these matters and more importantly hold those responsible accountable.

[onesparkz]

I heard BATFE Agent Jay Dobyns on the G. Gordon Liddy satellite radio show today.  I am not sure the BATFE could find a more articulate and interesting person to go before the public.  After the treatment that he has recieved from the BATFE he somehow managed to be very positive and flattering of BATFE and raved about BATFE's agents commitment to confronting violent crime. A copy of that interview should be played for Eric Holder so he can see that he is fighting the wrong guy.

[Doc Holiday]

Somebody please advise when and where Traver had ever been battle tested or command tested? Why is Jim Cavanaugh chiming in on ever commentary? SAC Traver is a decent man but was at best a marginal agent with limited street time, a borderline non-committal supervisor and a non-descript manager. He is middle of the road and doesn't have an opinion ATF has not told him he was allowed to have. Director? Seriously Mr Obama and Holder?

[x1811]

White House Considering Nominating Chicago ATF’s Andrew Traver to Head Agency

By Allan Lengel
ticklethewire.com
WASHINGTON – Andrew Traver, head of the Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Chicago could soon be nominated to take the top job in the agency, the Washington Post reports.

The Post said Traver would be the first-ever Senate-confirmed ATF director.

A source has told ticklethewire.com that two members of Congress from Illinois have written letters of recommendation to the White House on behalf of Traver, who has expressed an intense interest in the job.

“He’s an experience special agent with more than 20 years,” former ATF official James Cavanaugh, who recently retired after 33 1/2 years with the agency,  told ticklethewire.com. “He’s a good leader. He’s quiet. He’s strong. He certainly has the battle scars of law enforcement and law enforcement command.”

“I think he would be a good pick because he’s not a political person.”

[Corny]

Lone Wolf, on 29 July 2010 - 08:24 PM, said:

The reason they are not taking threats seriously is because, quoting Mark Chait in a meeting in Nashville at SAC Cavanaugh's retirement, I mean the "All Hands", "... I don't consider something a threat unless someone's pointing a gun at you or bullets are flying by your head..."

That is one of the dozens of reasons Chait has to go.  How he got to the ADFO in the first place will remain one of lifes great mysteries.

[Corny]

Melson violated our trust.  We gave him room and he posted up some weblinks.  What else?  What did I miss.  This is what these guys do and it is why they are in the positions they are in both literarly and figuratively.  They tell people what they want to hear to take the heat off themselves.

[Snake bite]

ISpy, on 30 July 2010 - 07:07 AM, said:

WOW.  Is that the threat level that they were looking at when they put the SRT on Vido or is it one standard for the masses and another for management?  Chait, if no one was pointing a gun at Vido and no bullets were flying by his head then why was the taxpayer's money wasted having SRT guard him?

Louisville FD agents and SRT not only held Vido's hand as he walked outside his house to pick up his morning newspaper, they also escorted his family to their jobs and the grocery store.  No shots were ever reported being shot anywhere near Vido by any of the protective detail.  So, the reality of how ATF operates is if you are a street agent, ATF will only take action after you have been shot at, or your house has been burned down, only if ATF management can't frame you , the street agent up for firing the shots or setting the fire first.  

If you are in the SES gang, mere speculation will trigger a code RED, all hands on deck.  If you are a journeyman/woman agent in Paul Vido's FD, BEWARE, he is zealously looking to replace you with a probationary agent, who does not have the job secuity to call BS when Vido and his merry management men initiate some off the wall policy that ultimately only benefits Paul Vido or one of his minions.

By the way, if you and your family are in danger, Paul Vido has proven at every duty staion that he has been assigned that he does not care about your safety, much less the safety of your family.  

See, there is a big I in Vido, but not in team.

[ISpy]

WOW.  Is that the threat level that they were looking at when they put the SRT on Vido or is it one standard for the masses and another for management?  Chait, if no one was pointing a gun at Vido and no bullets were flying by his head then why was the taxpayer's money wasted having SRT guard him?

[Lone Wolf]

The reason they are not taking threats seriously is because, quoting Mark Chait in a meeting in Nashville at SAC Cavanaugh's retirement, I mean the "All Hands", "... I don't consider something a threat unless someone's pointing a gun at you or bullets are flying by your head..."

[Thor God of Thunder]

Doc Holiday, on 16 June 2010 - 11:14 AM, said:

This is merely a symptom of these disease. Where is SAC Newell in all this? He needs to stop making damaging grandstanding statements to the Mexican press and get his border house in order. Wasn't he in charge and identified as incompetent in Dobyns first round of death threats? IF I'm not mistaken, he was in charge when Agent Dobyn' house was burnt down. How is he still in Charge of anything?

Now he just flies in helicopters looking at the southwest border...he can't get anything in order.  You can't give what you do not have and it is my opinion that he does not have any leadership!!!  The examples above are glaring and unmistakable for lacking leadership abilities.

[Snake bite]

microscope, on 16 June 2010 - 01:39 PM, said:

Does this surprise ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????  The list of threat events that ATF has ignored and quit on as they come at Jay has never been seen before in law enforcement.  It is my understanding that while the latest threat was brewing on teh back channels of ATF Melson was telling CNN that there is no reprisal at ATF on his watch.  The reprisal Mr. Melson is you and your people knowing that a death threat exists and not informing a potential victim.  How long did it take you to notify SAC Vido and ASAC Albritton of the threats against them?  I'll bet it was pretty damn quick.  Your double standards crush your credibility.

When I opened the transcript of Melson's State of the Bureau address #3, I laughed so loud that a couple other agents’ came over to my cubical to see what was so funny.  I can tell you that I am aware of multiple threats against agents throughout the Louisville FD that have been totally ignored by Vido.  As a matter of fact, Vido routinely hides his head in sand and pretends everything is peachy in his kingdom.  That is when he manages to get into the office those two or three days each week.

The concerning fact is that Vido uses the same company line as many of the other SAC’s in other field divisions throughout the country.  I am aware of multiple threats against different working agents all across this country where little to nothing has been initiated by ATF to protect the agent.  Nearly each agent who has been subjected to a threat as a result of his or her work has universally received the same instructions from ATF management; wait and see if anything else happens, let’s hope nothing happens and each agent has categorically been told that ATF management is doing everything they can while actually they are doing nothing.  ATF management has used the same excuses across the board, like we don’t have the money; we are waiting on HQ or some other lie to avoid paying for the protections needed for the agents who are out working cases on the most violent criminals in America.

To answer your question about how long it took to implement security measures for Vido and Albritton.  My office was activated to babysit Vido and his family the next day.  It wasn’t long after that when SRT was activated to follow the Vido’s around 24/7.

Mr. Melson, all of the above examples took place on your watch.  If you are going to talk the talk, then walk the walk.  Quit listening to the layers of insulation you are surrounded by and listen to the men and women who are actually fighting the war against the criminals as well as being forced to deal with various levels of incompetence with many, but not all of the ATF managers.  

Practice what you preach and do what you say you are going to do!  Get rid of the incompetent SES people you have surrounding you.  Rely upon the quality leaders you find within this agency (there are many) and get started implementing all of these great plans you have been talking about.  Saying something and doing something are two completely different animals.  We are tired of listening to what you have to say and not seeing any movement towards enacting the plans you say you have.

[Epic Failure]

Cornelius, on 16 June 2010 - 09:34 AM, said:

ATF sat on a brand new death threat that involved Dobyns and didn’t bother warning him about it.  He found out by accident.  Apparently a SIR went all over the place to include all the undercover program people but no one felt it necessary to let Dobyns in on the secret.   Oops.  My suggestion to DD Melson is that he stop allowing his staff to drop the ball and pretending like it didn't happen.

I read the transcript for Melson's State of the Bureau #3 today.  His comments on running threats to the ground stood out.  Did Melson say that just to insult Dobyns.  I know for a fact that there are a bunch of suspects out there who threatened the Dobyns family that have never been confronted.  They are legit suspects that ATF never bothered to investigate because Celeya, Richardson, Newell and Gillette didn't want to bother.  I wouldn't poke the tiger if I were Melson.

[microscope]

Cornelius, on 16 June 2010 - 09:34 AM, said:

ATF sat on a brand new death threat that involved Dobyns and didn’t bother warning him about it.  He found out by accident.  Apparently a SIR went all over the place to include all the undercover program people but no one felt it necessary to let Dobyns in on the secret.   Oops.  My suggestion to DD Melson is that he stop allowing his staff to drop the ball and pretending like it didn't happen.

Does this surprise ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????  The list of threat events that ATF has ignored and quit on as they come at Jay has never been seen before in law enforcement.  It is my understanding that while the latest threat was brewing on teh back channels of ATF Melson was telling CNN that there is no reprisal at ATF on his watch.  The reprisal Mr. Melson is you and your people knowing that a death threat exists and not informing a potential victim.  How long did it take you to notify SAC Vido and ASAC Albritton of the threats against them?  I'll bet it was pretty damn quick.  Your double standards crush your credibility.

[Doc Holiday]

This is merely a symptom of these disease. Where is SAC Newell in all this? He needs to stop making damaging grandstanding statements to the Mexican press and get his border house in order. Wasn't he in charge and identified as incompetent in Dobyns first round of death threats? IF I'm not mistaken, he was in charge when Agent Dobyn' house was burnt down. How is he still in Charge of anything?

[Epic Failure]

ATF sat on a brand new death threat that involved Dobyns and didn’t bother warning him about it.  He found out by accident.  Apparently a SIR went all over the place to include all the undercover program people but no one felt it necessary to let Dobyns in on the secret.   Oops.  My suggestion to DD Melson is that he stop allowing his staff to drop the ball and pretending like it didn't happen.

[1desertrat]

Thor God of Thunder, on 13 June 2010 - 04:01 AM, said:

However true your "bottom line" post, we must look towards the future with hope for our sons and daughters.  It is never too late to correct the mistakes of the past.

I for one sure as hell don't want my kids following into this chicken.... agency.  However, the saving grace is that we will most likely be part of the FBI by then anyway. Many like myself, no longer have any loyalty to ATF and believe one Fed pay check is as good as another....maybe better. The "ATF Family" is crap that is fed to the New Agent classes.  Sad, but I think we are already past the point of redemption as a credible LE organization. Case Producer, if you are on some kind of a holly crusade to rally the troops to work harder and rescue the precious ATF reputation, you are a fool and need to reassess where you derive your personal identity.  The badge in our pockets is not who we are, ITS JUST OUR JOB for 8 hours a day!!!  Why do anything more than the minimum?  Why volunteer for anything?  Why risk anything?  Why continue to make management look good by going the extra mile?  You get the same pay for a few simple cases as 20 "complex" w/ no personal risk, family sacrafice or getting "hung out" by managemnt when all does not go perfect. There is nothing to be gained and everything to lose by being a superstar in ATF Agent....just look at Jay Dobyns and a whole host of other senior Agents who have been targets. Perhaps doing LESS would draw more attention to our supervisors and their issues than getting them promoted to higher levels of incompetency off the hard work of the agents?

Accept the fact that Melson and the rest of the so called "leadership" simply want a 9-5 work day, a six-figure paycheck and to act like they are important busy people.  Cool, lets all do the same.  The path of least resistance is minimal effort and that is EXACTLY what you will get from management. So, man up and stop the begging...it will accomplish NOTHING.  If you look at ATF honestly, the truth of the matter is that you can hire 3 cops (or more) for the cost of every Agent and make a greater impact on crime.  Gun cases are not rocket science and most HS graduates could be taught to do them.  Stop believing the self promoting bullshit about how important it is to preserve ATF because it isn't!  A good agent can carry a gun and badge for any organization, its MANAGEMENT that needs to worry should ATF disappear!

[caseproducer]

I see a lot of imploring/asking/ suggesting .... our current Acting Director to take notice and do something about the waste fraud and abuse of management.  I have been told that the day the funeral of a DEA Agent killed in the line of duty was take place, our Acting Director chose to attend a briefing at a lab somewhere. Let there be no doubt in anybody's mind where he stands, as far as Agents.

On the average, 1 out of every 10 agents in this agency will post a concern.  Out of frustration with how management is deteriorating, to blatant waste fraud and abuse by the same.  The rest, are to new to say something or really do not care. 2-6 of these agents per group, are the ones that will comment here and there, follow this opinion or that, saying enough to stir the pot, but not enough to get themselves in trouble.  We all know who these agents, ussually the ones that use up more of their working day figuring out how to "pretend" to stay busy, than actually working.  Ussualy these agents, are the marginal producers.  

I say this, because I believe it is time for each one of the individuals that actually have the guts to post here, to start holding everybody accountable, from the co-worker to the supervisor, to the supervisor's supervisor.....  Simple, call-out those non-producing agents, call-out the supervisors with problems.  Do it in a proffesional, and smart manner,.... know your orders inside and out.  2-3 agents per group start doing this, amazing what could happen in a few weeks.  

I feel compelled to write this, being that I still beleive in what ATF stands for.  And NEVER forget the hard sweat, tears and blood of true AGENTS, who sacrificed everything because they beleived in what this agency stood for.  I for one, refuse to accept that we have no dog in this fight.  It is my agency.  I will do my part.

[Jumper]

Mr. Melson,

I hope you have read some of the postings since the CNN show.  You don't need to read between the lines to see that the people that contribute to and follow this website are supporting you and giving you room to implement the changes you desire.  Please don't let us down.  Work hard and fast.  Be the reformer that we are hoping for and place your mark on ATF as one who came in and restored us.

Please don't take advantage of the situation.  The edge has came off because you are showing us some hope and for no other reason.

You have a core of trustees around you who believe that they can wait you out.  They are content with the way things are or have an agenda to protect themselves.  Figure out who they are and get them out of your way.

I believe that you have seen a turn in the nature of the postings here.  We are not the enemy.

If you extend an olive branch you are not going to have your face slapped for it.  All any of us want is reform, change, improvement and to be made whole as an agency and as individuals.  You can't solve every problem or dispute.  But, there are huge problems and huge disputes that you can impact.

You will be greatly surprised what you will find when those that have been described to you as the enemy are treated with some dignity.  Good faith goes a long way.

[Thor God of Thunder]

However true your "bottom line" post, we must look towards the future with hope for our sons and daughters.  It is never too late to correct the mistakes of the past.

[1desertrat]

Mallard Duck, on 11 June 2010 - 05:24 PM, said:

Please let me be a devil's advocate for just moment.  What would you have Mr. Melson do?   Open up an investigate of SAC Newall?   Call the SA's in Phoenix amd ask about what happended?   If an anonomous posting is all it takes to kick off action, we have barbarians as the gates and the zoo is in charge.  Take up that practice and morale wlll not go north but south in a hurry.

If what you alledge happened, then 1, 2, or many SA's in Phoenix need to copy your posting and send it off to the Deputy Directory and say, "I was there and this happened.  While others like Hiram, Vince and Jay were left to twist in the wind in the past, there is power in numbers.  Until people are willing to take the chance and put their name to a complaint, little will happen.

Is that hard?  You bet, but the more that step forward the greater chance is that something will be done.  Until then it is just an unnamed unsubtanitated rant.

Sorry... I promise to behave this weekend and get some R&R.  As always my thoughts are just from new eyes and new blood in the middle of a tempest.

Here is the bottom line.....no one cares until it is their turn in the cross hairs, then they jump on the band wagon.  Once you have truly been in the cross hairs, you quickly realize that you are absolutely alone except for your family.  Fair weather "associates" quickly distance themselves and you are labeled a "problem" by management bringing your career progression to an end.  Therefore, why in the world would anyone think a supervisor (or anyone else) making $150K a year would risk that for any of us?  The answer is that all will remain deaf, blind and mute until the cross hairs move to them.  ATF has become an organization of "grab what you can for yourself while you can however you can" and the quicker the young agents understand this, the better off they will be.  The concept of a "greater good" or that we serve some noble purpose as Federal Agents is a fiction.  Just look at our corrupt "leadership"...do you see any selflessness?  Of course not!! You are only as good as your last case report, there is no credit in the bank for long hours and personal sacrifices and management will sell you out in the blink of an eye if it serves their purpose.   So, the next time you ignore your kids baseball game, recital, school function, etc because you need to be working that "important" case, think again.  What you do for ATF does not matter, but you family will remember your absences for years to come and you will never get that time back.  There will always be work and you will be forgotten 30 days (or less) after you leave ATF no matter how important you think you are.  Do what you do as Agents if that gives you fulfilment, but don't fool yourself that you really matter or are making a difference. We all enjoy the excitement when we first start out, but 20 years later you figure things out and realize its only a pay check and nothing more. Keep your family close and don't miss what REALY matters.

[Thor God of Thunder]

Mr. Melson,

I would make it very clear from Director to the file clerk, all of the rules apply.  

You have made it clear that you will not tolerate retaliation.  I have seen some positive steps that you have taken.

Where there are findings of discrimination, the officials involved need to be held accountable and responsible whether it be forfeiting a bonus, suspension to reassignment or all of them.  The penalty needs to be clear.

The tools of retaliation need to be removed.  Eleaner Loos' playbook needs to be removed.

If you have an open door policy, it needs to be clear as to how an employee goes about communicating with you or setting up an appointment with you.   You should meet with employees individually without your staff and ADs.  This gives the employee the opportunity to speak freely.

[Thor God of Thunder]

Jumper, on 11 June 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

Mallard, in your devils advocacy your rhetorical question is actually the answer.  Melson should research the allegation, call the GS victims and confirm what happened.  Is this the biggest deal in ATF right now?  Obviously not but Melson said he wouldn't have his executives doing business this way.  He spent the week hanging out with Newell in Arizona and standing before the victims of Newell's threats asking them for input on ATF.  Do you really think they are going to speak up?  Would you?  

"Ah yes sir.  Mr. Mallard Duck here from the Phoenix Group X office.  Our SAC threatend by boss with 30 days punishment if he so dared speak of the punishment recieved by our ASAC.  What is your opinion of that practice sir, and what do you intend to do about it?  Thank you.  I'll sit and wait for my answer."

Most of what has been posted on this site over the past year could be classified as you describe "unnamed unsubstantied rants".  THat is becuase the communication, chain-of-command, Ombudsman, Grievance and EEOC processes at ATF are worthless.  Unnamed because no one wants to be retailiated against.  Unsubstantied only because they won't look into the allegations knowing what they will find is not good.  Rants?  No, they are facts.

You are absolutely right Jumper!  Even when someone stands up and makes the allegation, either there is no investigation conducted, the investigation itself is slanted or the agency responds by saying that the comments are slanted or taken out of context.  In the CNN piece, there was a statement from a Group Supervisor documenting the statements of Eleaner Loos that constitute retaliation.  ATF's response to the American public was that the statements of Eleaner Loos were slanted and taken out of context by the person who wrote the statement.   WHAT?????  There has been no investigation because ATF does not want to stir the shit because, of course, it stinks!  This is part of and an extension of the problem.  This is what has created this underground resistance that is this website.  The remarks, however disparaging, are true in the facts and the anger is the result of the frustration of the ineffective and abusive system that is lenient with some and unrelenting and harsh with others.  The hope of these "rants" is that these folks will be held responsible and accountable for their actions.  Up to now, they have gotten off very lightly or with no action.  If I had a mistress, I would like the ability to promote her to a GS-15.  This would go over very well with her and make her happy.  How do I get to be on per diem for two or three years?  This is a two year SES bonus 50k plus not that I would complain, if I were an SES.  Free lodging and meals plus an over $150k salary plus an SES yearly bonus mmmmm....not bad.

Back to my original point, it is very frustrating when you take a stand and come forward only to have the investigation mishandled and slanted resulting with you being labeled as the troublemaker.

[Jumper]

Mallard Duck, on 11 June 2010 - 05:24 PM, said:

Please let me be a devil's advocate for just moment.  What would you have Mr. Melson do?   Open up an investigate of SAC Newall?   Call the SA's in Phoenix amd ask about what happended?   If an anonomous posting is all it takes to kick off action, we have barbarians as the gates and the zoo is in charge.  Take up that practice and morale wlll not go north but south in a hurry.

If what you alledge happened, then 1, 2, or many SA's in Phoenix need to copy your posting and send it off to the Deputy Directory and say, "I was there and this happened.  While others like Hiram, Vince and Jay were left to twist in the wind in the past, there is power in numbers.  Until people are willing to take the chance and put their name to a complaint, little will happen.

Is that hard?  You bet, but the more that step forward the greater chance is that something will be done.  Until then it is just an unnamed unsubtanitated rant.

Sorry... I promise to behave this weekend and get some R&R.  As always my thoughts are just from new eyes and new blood in the middle of a tempest.

Mallard, in your devils advocacy your rhetorical question is actually the answer.  Melson should research the allegation, call the GS victims and confirm what happened.  Is this the biggest deal in ATF right now?  Obviously not but Melson said he wouldn't have his executives doing business this way.  He spent the week hanging out with Newell in Arizona and standing before the victims of Newell's threats asking them for input on ATF.  Do you really think they are going to speak up?  Would you?  

"Ah yes sir.  Mr. Mallard Duck here from the Phoenix Group X office.  Our SAC threatend by boss with 30 days punishment if he so dared speak of the punishment recieved by our ASAC.  What is your opinion of that practice sir, and what do you intend to do about it?  Thank you.  I'll sit and wait for my answer."

Most of what has been posted on this site over the past year could be classified as you describe "unnamed unsubstantied rants".  THat is becuase the communication, chain-of-command, Ombudsman, Grievance and EEOC processes at ATF are worthless.  Unnamed because no one wants to be retailiated against.  Unsubstantied only because they won't look into the allegations knowing what they will find is not good.  Rants?  No, they are facts.

[Mallard Duck]

Please let me be a devil's advocate for just moment.  What would you have Mr. Melson do?   Open up an investigate of SAC Newall?   Call the SA's in Phoenix amd ask about what happended?   If an anonomous posting is all it takes to kick off action, we have barbarians as the gates and the zoo is in charge.  Take up that practice and morale wlll not go north but south in a hurry.

If what you alledge happened, then 1, 2, or many SA's in Phoenix need to copy your posting and send it off to the Deputy Directory and say, "I was there and this happened.  While others like Hiram, Vince and Jay were left to twist in the wind in the past, there is power in numbers.  Until people are willing to take the chance and put their name to a complaint, little will happen.

Is that hard?  You bet, but the more that step forward the greater chance is that something will be done.  Until then it is just an unnamed unsubtanitated rant.

Sorry... I promise to behave this weekend and get some R&R.  As always my thoughts are just from new eyes and new blood in the middle of a tempest.

[Corny]

1desertrat, on 11 June 2010 - 10:30 AM, said:

Yes, the threats by Newell were literally heard all the way to DC.  Several friends in HQ have shared this with me.  Makes it hard to believe that Mr. Melson did not hear of this when the rest of HQ is buzzing.  Keep in mind all, that for years people have been complaining that the NEOC is routinely used as a punishment assignment, which ATF always denied.  I think Newell's threats clearly confirm ATF's perspective that the NEOC is a place to put loser or trouble maker agents.

Mr. Melson, here is one of the first tests to your words.  Newell threatens his supervisors that if they speak of Gillette's punishment he is going to send them to the JSOC for a month (I wonder how the Chief of the JSOC feels about knowing that his shop is being used to threaten prospective punishment?).  Query the Phoenix supervisors and when you confirm Newell said it, what will you do?  His words were designed as intimidation.  He is threatening retailiation.  It took place on your watch and you said to all of America that you will not stand for it.  Newell has been a constant source of bad management and bad decisions during his tenure as the Phoenix SAC.  You just pal'd around with him for three days.  You want credibility?  You can let this one slide and blame it on a "mischaracterization taken out of context" if you want to but the same excuse you used to shield Loos is growing old.  We're watching.

[1desertrat]

microscope, on 09 June 2010 - 10:35 PM, said:

• Take Loos out of play.  She brags on her ablity to extend litigations and break agents.  This was not hearsay or misinterpreted statements taken out of context.  She said it, she owns it and Mr. Melson so do you if you let her get away with it.  Her track record confirms her statements.
  
• Guarantee agents that OPSRO will conduct fair and complete investigations.  The days of interviewing only the witnesses that support the pre-determined conclusions that ATF wants have been exposed.  No more deciding what spin an internal investigation needs to be taken to protect the agency and making the investigation fit it.
  
• Discipline your supervisors for their bad acts.  When everyone knows what has taken place and they see no punishment to the wrongdoers you lose our faith.
  
• Punish retalitation.  Example: Newell calls in all of his supervisors after Gillette takes his 45 days on the beach and threatens them with their own punishment of 30 days at the JSOC if he hears of them discussing Gillette's punishment.  Mr. Melson according to your own words you will not tolerate this type of leadership.  This is true and can be easily confirmed.  Do something about it.
  
• Back up your words.  If you promise something then deliver.  If you can't deliver, then don't make promises.

Yes, the threats by Newell were literally heard all the way to DC.  Several friends in HQ have shared this with me.  Makes it hard to believe that Mr. Melson did not hear of this when the rest of HQ is buzzing.  Keep in mind all, that for years people have been complaining that the NEOC is routinely used as a punishment assignment, which ATF always denied.  I think Newell's threats clearly confirm ATF's perspective that the NEOC is a place to put loser or trouble maker agents.

[Doc Holiday]

Mr. Melson, there are no secrets within ATF. We are a family. If you want to be part of it, less talk, more action. You must be prepared to discipline those you know to have lied to you. We know you don't have a magic wand but you DO have the authority. You have been lied to, given half truths and received poor counsel, and you know it. Hint sir, the beauty of being in charge is that SES employees can be assigned to a myriad of positions, government wide without ANY standing to go Edgar on you. No demotion, no transfer, just a reassignment. Then you may surround yourself with competent honest loyal staff members who you trust. If all these moves in your words are "healthy", why not expand Ms. Loos' experience base by putting her in asset forfeiture. Same grade, same money and put somebody in ETHICS who has some, and who shares your ethical mindset. Ms. Loos knows only one way and she is solely responsible for you having to answer questions on CNN. That should have never escalted to that level. If you don't take some visible and definitive action to clean up the mess you inherited, its only going to get worse for our Bureau.

[microscope]

• Take Loos out of play.  She brags on her ablity to extend litigations and break agents.  This was not hearsay or misinterpreted statements taken out of context.  She said it, she owns it and Mr. Melson so do you if you let her get away with it.  Her track record confirms her statements.
  
• Guarantee agents that OPSRO will conduct fair and complete investigations.  The days of interviewing only the witnesses that support the pre-determined conclusions that ATF wants have been exposed.  No more deciding what spin an internal investigation needs to be taken to protect the agency and making the investigation fit it.
  
• Discipline your supervisors for their bad acts.  When everyone knows what has taken place and they see no punishment to the wrongdoers you lose our faith.
  
• Punish retalitation.  Example: Newell calls in all of his supervisors after Gillette takes his 45 days on the beach and threatens them with their own punishment of 30 days at the JSOC if he hears of them discussing Gillette's punishment.  Mr. Melson according to your own words you will not tolerate this type of leadership.  This is true and can be easily confirmed.  Do something about it.
  
• Back up your words.  If you promise something then deliver.  If you can't deliver, then don't make promises.

[Doc Holiday]

Mr. Melson, If it is true as it has been stated; that you are receiving significant pushback from your AD's and DAD's when attempting to communicate directly with your SACs, this should tell you something. If you are holding town hall meetings and the are little or no questions during your Q&A, or questions that are surface issues and no nard ball questions, you can rest assured that its NOT because Agents have no concerns or dont care. You staff has created an environment where you will probably NOT get the real picture. If all this is true, you need to change your inner circle, not just move them around. This IS officially your Bureau now. How many times are you going to say "I wasnt aware of that and I wasnt advised of that before you make changes. Bottom line, If you do not make drastic changes, this Bureau will continue down the road that it has since you got here. Are you comfortable with that? You said you were gonna hold your staff accountable. Talking about it doesnt mean anything. We need to see it.

[Doc Holiday]

The musical AD's has begun. The orginizational chart has been updated. So now all is well. That is if you believe that shuffling previously proven unskilled, abusive and incompetant leaders will give the illusion of change. However one change has not been effected. Ford remains at PGA and Mcdermond at Intell. Word is that Mcdermond will not turn over the reigns to Ford until a complete audit of the Intelligence directorate is completed. It is said that Mcdermond does not want ANY of the failures of intel that are sure to occur once Ford takes over, to be blamed on him or his previously tenure as the AD. Can you blame him? Ford is an uninspiring, marginal agent and leader who has corrupted the PGA directorate. He should NOT be allowed to do the same to our intelligence branch. If he must be moved because he has ruined the credibility of PGA on the hill and needs to be moved, move him OUT. Dont just let him destroy another directorate.

[ISpy]

Mr. Melson, do you think we are stupid?  Do you think we are incapable of figuring stuff out?  Do you think we can't put 2 and 2 together.  I don't think you are so naive as to think that.  Your an educated man.  Well, so are we.  What do we do for a living?  We investigate.  We figure out who is feeding us a lie.  Many of us have never had an issue where we even met an IA investigator.  Many of us have never been called on the carpet of anything.  We also realize that not every agent with an ax to grind against management has a legitimate claim.  We do realize though that Management isn't always right and we've seen enough to know that an environment of US vs. THEM has come to be when it comes to the SES club vs. everyone else.

Many, if not most of us don't care to go into management.  We want to do the job we hired on to do in the beginning.  What we don't like is the SES club taking care of their own and when called out on it, striking out at the agent in the field.  Management by Fear and Intimidation will only get one so far.  It won't build loyalty.  It won't build integrity.  It won't build a workforce wanting to go the extra mile.  

We got into this line of work with a basic sense of what is right and what is wrong.  That applies to not only the people of this great country, but to us that work for her and for those who manage this agency at whatever level it may be from a 14 to an SES.  We all saw the McLemore coverup.  We all have seen the shuffling of SESs to cover those that were WAY over their heads in their job responsibilities.  Remember what we do for a living.  We aren't blind and stupid.  We have no confidence that the same rules apply to management as they do to the street agent.

You can tell CNN that there is nothing going on.  You can state that you have an open door policy and you are willing to talk.  History doesn't show that and no one at the street level is going to be crazy enough to jump up and call your baby ugly with their name exposed.  We have all seen where that could lead.  You have heard us if you've read this site as you say.  Let's see if you have the integrity to deal with the next SES that is incapable or corrupt.  Lets see if you would demote or fire them vs. move them to a City where they want to go or hold them over till retirement.

As to Cefalu.  You act as if you were unaware that he is guarding a desk 40 hours a week.  The man wants to work.  Y'all haven't been able to fire him as was evidently tried so let him work.  If you were unaware of it, and your subordinates were responsible for his situation and the CNN story was news to you as you came across in the interview then what does that say about your managment team and what else they may not be telling you.  Makes one wonder, HMMMMMMMMM.

What is really sad is that we do have some OUTSTANDING people in management positions throughout this Agency.  Some would be fantastic in upper levels but they don't want to play the game.  Choose carefully as you promote people in the future.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Mr. Melson, if you are not just talk and smoke and mirrors, and you want this Bureau to move forward with the support of the OTHER 4991 employees NOT on your executive staff, read the below posts. There is no reason to restate them. They say all there is to say. There is no need to continue down this road. We ALL lose if you can't fix it.

[Cool Hand]

As many of us learned in the school yard, the system often fails the innocent when it comes to bullies.  Corrections1 warned of letters to executives and congressmen. The intrepid "Corrections1" must be mighty powerful to think that his letters are weightier than the letters, phone calls, faxes, congressional inquiries, administrative hearings, inquiries, mediations and remedies we have experienced OURSELVES...IN THE OPEN...USING OUR REAL NAMES.  This site and the recent CNN story were and unfortunate and desperate acts--the last line of defense.  Sure it looks bad, but the in-house, "keep the dirty laundry away from the public", approach failed 100-fold.  In 1995, we sustained the most comprehensive review and congressional hearing in the history of professional law enforcement and we still didn't solve our leadership problems (frankly, over time we got worse).  The majority of our executives devolved from "technically competent and abusive" to simply "abusive".  So an outsider wants to write his congressman?  Knock yourself out.  We need reform by whatever means necessary. REFORM IS POSSIBLE--look at the post-Viet Nam Army--IT'S PAINFUL, BUT IT CAN BE DONE--IT TAKES OVERSIGHT AND EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP (thank you President Reagan and the military leaders who learned from their experiences in Southeast Asia).  Sometimes, the only way to defeat a bully is to publically smack him in the mouth, in front of all of his school yard buddies, and face a long walk to the principal's office.  You'll take a spanking or suspension by authority figures, but the bully will go away.  I know the public is not impressed with the CNN story...and frankly my morale and sense of organizational pride is hurt...but the only cure is meaningful reform.  If you'll notice, DEA has come a long way since the 1970s.  They hardly paid out any law suits last year and they see no need for a variety of internal special interest group associations (Hispanic Agents Association, Black Agents Association, etc).  This is because such groups are well represented in management by a competent leadership team that looks like America.  Folks, either we turn the corner or its time for a congressional hearing under the lights of CSPAN.

[Retired and loving it]

Jumper, no one who seeks the things you are seeking is a nobody!

You have made some excellent suggestions.  Keep perservering.

[Jumper]

Remove ATF's Chief Counsel from handling any personal matters within the agency.   Leave the ATF attorneys to provide legal advise on other matters but send all employee disputes to DOJ's attorneys.  This would provide an honest legal assessment (and hopefully investigation) of complaints.  It would keep your out of control and habitual EEO offenders from continuing their bad acts knowing they don't have the guaranteed defense of Loos in their back pocket.


Don't try to sweep the bad business that was on the books when you arrived under the rug.  You inheirited plenty of old complaints but when you took the job you don't get to say "this happened under Truscott or Sullivan and it's not my problem."  It is your problem because you are the top man.  Choke down your pride, forget about who you think is watching or what someone else thinks and clear the books of old complaints.  I hate to tell you this but you ain't moving forward draggin the anchor of all this old crap with you.


Put the word out directly, with confidence and authority that you're cleaning house and that no more abuse of employees will be permitted.  Don't worry about all the 'open door / speak up' BS.  No agent is going to come see you or call you.  Just call all your AD's, DAD's and SAC's in and hold them personally accountable for how their people are treated.  Mean it, not just words and when one of the Super SAC's bucks up and tests your authority remove him or her immediatley to one of your Assistance To The Director jobs for retraining.  Send a message.  I bet the rest of them get it quick.


Bring in some advisors who you can personally trust to tell you the entire truth on any given situation.  You name the topic and it is clear you are only getting the filtered version of the truth from your staff.  I'm sorry.  I'm not nameing names here but come on.  Employee disputes, southwest border, explosives, Mexico, etc., is anyone on your staff coming clean on any of this to you?  Go outside of ATF and find someone who can provide an unbiased pulse on ATF.  You just took a public beating for the very people who are decieving you.  You are mis- and un- informed.  I can't blame your staff, they are protecting themselves.  You said the right things for ATF as an agency.  Denied reprisals, good place to work, brave agents, etc.  No one expected or wanted a public confession from you about how bad it is.  Make something happen from behind the scenes but allow us in the field the satisfaction to know your doing it.


None of these are going to save the day.  I am a nobody at ATF.  I just want things to be something close to fair and right and they presently are not.


(Sorry, I misspelled Deputy in my title page and don't know how to go back and fix it.)