Failure is the best description:
SW border failure and mismanagement
Record Personnel disputes
Record settlement payouts
SES managers shuffled to protect them
Downward demotions of countless executive staff members w/o accountability
Waste fraud and abuse
Loss of explosive jurisdiction
Corrupt hiring,promotional and contract placement practices
Total lack of leadership and confidence in leadership by the field.
This IS your watch Mr.Melson,Chait,Loos,Martin,Ford and the rest.
From where we sit, banner year ATF
FAILURE WATCH 2010
Started by
Guest_microscope_*
, Aug 06 2010 07:26 PM
20 replies to this topic
#2
Thor God of Thunder
-
- Members
-
- 215 posts
Regular
- LocationAsgard
Posted 11 September 2010 - 05:21 PM
On this day, I would like to acknowledge the tragic terrorist attacks in New York, District of Columbia and Pennsylvania and those who lost their lives or suffered in anyway during and after this event.
The failure of ATF Senior leaders to do the right thing and to hold their counterparts feet to the fire vs. sweep it all under the rug. Why can't they just plain and simply be honest? The under the rug location has a Mt. Everest of crap that can not continue to withstand the old "sweep it under the rug" trick that ATF performs time and time again.
This is just unbelievable and ridiculous!!!!
For Clean Up ATF!
#3
Doc Holiday
-
- Moderators
-
- 568 posts
Regular
- LocationClassified.
Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:42 PM
Why would DD Melson cancel a meeting with the ATF Attache' to Mexico, #1 when he is only in the country occasionally, #2 when a scathing OIG report regarding the breakdown of senior management and mismanagement related to the SW Border is about to be released? One answer......DD Melson didnt cancel it, Billy Hoover and Mark Chait did. What did they NOT want the Director to hear?
#4
Doc Holiday
-
- Moderators
-
- 568 posts
Regular
- LocationClassified.
Posted 23 August 2010 - 07:41 PM
SAC Potter, clearly one of the most arrogant and obstructionist managers in OUR Bureau, now has yet another pocket commision to hang in his shadow box. Hopefully this is/was Mr. Melsons attempt to remove an abusive and self promoting manager out of the field so he can no longer impact our law enforcement mission. Potter can now order all the Cadillacs he wants but won't be interfering with working Agents. SAC Crenshaw,SAC Newell,SAC Gleysteen, ASAC Gilette,DAD Martin and the rest still remain, as does Ms. Loos even though all have been PROVEN to have operated so far outside the spirit and the policies which govern this agency. So much so that these managers are solely responsible for Ken Melson embarrassing himself and the DD standing by lying about the level of retaliation that exists. We have not exceeded the FBI and DEA in complaints by luck. And NO significant changes have been made or shared with the field. What will your answer be if you are interviewed again. We know what ours will be.
#5
Guest_Simple Man_*
Guest_Simple Man_*
-
- Guests
Posted 23 August 2010 - 10:52 AM
Management hates Dobyns and that cause is lead by Loos. This is no secret to anyone on either side of the case. Word is that recent testimony confirms this from several horses mouths. They simply can not stand that they got called out and instead of just saying we f'd up again they are going to defend their crimes. We all know this is retaliation and Melson is standing by while it takes place on his watch. ATF can settle now or settle later but later is going to be way more painful and only after a public exposing of the highest levels of ATF management to the corruption that they have engaged in.Because they fight every complaint against management whether they are right or wrong. This is the long standing policy of ATF Attorney Eleanor Loos. Even when she knows that ATF is in the wrong she fights back. This extends complaints and many times forces the agent to give up. Sometimes the agent won't quit. Loos has cost ATF millions of dollars in settlements because she escalates complaints that could have been resolved quickly into full blown EEO and MSPB lawsuits. She has never had the ability to look at the facts of a complaint and advise ATF to settle. She is not concerned with truth or justice. She only wants to defeat and crush agents and our leadership has been more than willing to allow her to do so. Her fingerprints are on every bad fight that ATF has picked and she still is in her postion. They are not going to remove her because they like having an unethical attorney to defend their mistakes.
#6
Guest_Simple Man_*
Guest_Simple Man_*
-
- Guests
Posted 23 August 2010 - 07:48 AM
Because they fight every complaint against management whether they are right or wrong. This is the long standing policy of ATF Attorney Eleanor Loos. Even when she knows that ATF is in the wrong she fights back. This extends complaints and many times forces the agent to give up. Sometimes the agent won't quit. Loos has cost ATF millions of dollars in settlements because she escalates complaints that could have been resolved quickly into full blown EEO and MSPB lawsuits. She has never had the ability to look at the facts of a complaint and advise ATF to settle. She is not concerned with truth or justice. She only wants to defeat and crush agents and our leadership has been more than willing to allow her to do so. Her fingerprints are on every bad fight that ATF has picked and she still is in her postion. They are not going to remove her because they like having an unethical attorney to defend their mistakes.This has been a malicious prosecution by ATF and a malicious defense of what they did wrong. When they realize they messed up why do they not cut their losses?
#7
Guest_onesparkz_*
Guest_onesparkz_*
-
- Guests
Posted 22 August 2010 - 10:04 PM
This has been a malicious prosecution by ATF and a malicious defense of what they did wrong. When they realize they messed up why do they not cut their losses?Lance1967,
Unfortunately you are observing what we have all be saying for years now. This debacle has nothing whatsoever to do with what Dobyns did or didn't do. This is about a Bureau out of control, with managers who do not posses the ability to take ownership of their mistakes. There is NO mandate within the agency to do "the right thing".No accountability. The Department and the Agency have given immunity to unethical and corrupt managers. Agent Dobyns has NEVER harmed this agency in any form or fashion. In spite of the outrageous actions of the agency against SA Dobyns and his family, he still publicly champions this Bureau, its mission and its people. Please follow through with your intent to contact your representatives in the U.S. Congress. Perhaps Sen. Grassley and Sen. Leahy as well. An agency that will attack its own heros is very dangerous to the public it serves. If an agency is willing to expend millions of taxpayer dollars to cover its mistakes against one of its own, what are they prepared to do to the public at large?
#8
Guest_microscope_*
Guest_microscope_*
-
- Guests
Posted 20 August 2010 - 09:35 PM
"ATF is a spaghetti bowl of lies, distortions and deceptions that are so inter-tangled if you try to pull out just one noodle it drags up dozens of others and reveals new ones below that no one had seen before."With multiple senior and SES managers knowingly lying under oath, admitting those above and below them aren't worthy of trust, or outright admitting significant incompetence, we think you have more than to act upon Mr. Melson. Swift and decisive action is what we EXPECT. You have been provided more than enough evidence of abuse of authority and corrupt management. Mr. Magaw did it, Mr. Sullivan did it. Now remove the cancer from our leadership.
A report from a very, very, very trusted and accurate CleanUpATF source assigned to 99 New York Avenue confirms that total and complete confusion is now the standard at ATF. "The deceit is so thick here you can't walk down the hallway without someone grabbing your arm and telling you how much they hate their incompetent boss. It seems like everyone hates everyone and everyone is looking over their shoulder. It's really creeping me out here. Its the 'Backstabbers Ball'."
More... "Executives in HQ and all over the country are just doing whatever they want. Melson's statements that he was going to force accountability on his crew was believed at first, even feared after his CNN interview, but, now that the SAC's and ASAC's have seen that it was just words with no backbone they are again running wild to an even greater degree. They don't give a s**t about Chait or what he says. They don't respect him."
"Billy Hoover has evolved into a total non-factor. He's uninspirational. He doesn't bring anything to the table anymore."
"Chait's lack of any real street experience is seen by all of us everyday. He's afraid of anything beyond an adopted case. Now that is who I want running my field operations."
"Chait and Hoover have lost all control. When they walk in the building people just look at them and snicker."
"None of us can get an answer on anything. Great cases are being put down by fearful and cowardly leadership. Important programs are in disaray. The southwest border is a mess. Mexico is a joke. Our explosives jurisdiction is defunct. Old personell problems are allowed to linger while new ones are back on the rise. No one is watching the house and Melson is simply counting the days until Traver arrives and immediatley sends him back to DOJ. Melson quit on us."
This is the best quote from the conversation:
"ATF is in a state of internal anarchy and total chaos with none of the executives showing any respect for one another and knowing that accountablity will never find them."
This is what happens when you have weak internal leadership and the top executive job goes unattended for an extended period of time.
Stop blaming Melson. He's in way over his head. Thank Bush, Gonzales, Mukasey, Obama and Holder. They are the ones that tanked ATF.
#9
Doc Holiday
-
- Moderators
-
- 568 posts
Regular
- LocationClassified.
Posted 20 August 2010 - 09:13 AM
With multiple senior and SES managers knowingly lying under oath, admitting those above and below them aren't worthy of trust, or outright admitting significant incompetence, we think you have more than to act upon Mr. Melson. Swift and decisive action is what we EXPECT. You have been provided more than enough evidence of abuse of authority and corrupt management. Mr. Magaw did it, Mr. Sullivan did it. Now remove the cancer from our leadership.
#10
Doc Holiday
-
- Moderators
-
- 568 posts
Regular
- LocationClassified.
Posted 19 August 2010 - 07:02 AM
It is somewhat disturbing that things are so chaotic within the Bureau and there is still no two way communication.No one seems to know what our priorities are or what the future holds. A very small group of bosses and attorneys are running this Bureau in a vacuum. This can't continue. There has been little or no improvement in this area. On a positive note, it would appear that Mr. Melson is committed to making sure we don't surpass the FBI and DEA related to internal disputes next year as reported by CNN.
#11
Guest_Jumper_*
Guest_Jumper_*
-
- Guests
Posted 16 August 2010 - 09:06 PM
Obama came out and supported a muslim mosque being built at ground zero. I doubt he cares what anyone thinks of his appointment as ATF's director either.
#12
Doc Holiday
-
- Moderators
-
- 568 posts
Regular
- LocationClassified.
Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:35 PM
Remember, nobody has appointed anybody, the WH just floated Travers name to see if they catch any pushback. He won't officially be appointed until after the election and the first Congressional recess. That way he is in W/O confirmation for 2 yrs until a new Congress comes in. They may make him acting until the recess but they will never make him go thru confirmation. Too many skeletons.
#13
Antigone
-
- Members
- 4 posts
- LocationWashington DC
Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:42 PM
Why would a president put forward the name of an ATF Director before a mid-term election? Wouldn't that just open up all of the candidates (Republican or Democrat) to questions concerning ATF, gun-control, US support to foreign countries (i.e. Mexico) and other controversies that might best be left until after November?
#14
x1811
-
- Members
-
- 75 posts
Regular
- LocationEverywhere
Posted 15 August 2010 - 09:15 PM
Is it true that recess appointments are not subject to Senate approval?Is there any word on when Obama is going to officially name our "Midnight Director"? We know he is going to do it when Congress is on recess.
#15
Guest_Jumper_*
Guest_Jumper_*
-
- Guests
Posted 15 August 2010 - 06:43 PM
Is there any word on when Obama is going to officially name our "Midnight Director"? We know he is going to do it when Congress is on recess.
#16
Guest_Cornelius_*
Guest_Cornelius_*
-
- Guests
Posted 14 August 2010 - 10:30 AM
Why has there been no movement on anything? Not a smidge of an effort to clean off the old business. EEO came out strong but they have slid back to their old way of doing things. Just plain nothing happening here at ATF.
Melson came out and talked the talked but he can't walk the walk. A few videos on our website is the best he had. Thomason puts out his propaganda and thinks that we really believe Loos didn't say the agent bashing things she said just because he made a statement on it. His credibility never was very good and it got worse after that.
No accountability for the bad bosses. They apparently have weathered the storm and have been allowed to continue with no investigation, discipline or repercusions.
Wheter you like George Gillette or not (mostly likely not) the guy caught 45 days for an affair. How are the rest of ATF's sexual predators not getting the same treatment? Where are their 45 days on the beach?
Our leadership is so pathetic. There is just nothing there. If everyone is engaged in Traver Watch as stated below I can get that but what is he going to do? Why does ATF have to freeze up until we know what is going to happen? Traver is just going to do what Melson did, just say it all happened before him and that it is not his problem to fix.
Look up the definition of "cop out" in Webster's and you'll see Melson' picture next to it as the example. The SAC's all met this week to tell each other what a good job they doing. They waited out Melson and now they are all planning on how to suck up to the new guy in charge.
#17
VINCENT A CEFALU
-
- Administrators
-
- 598 posts
Administrator
- LocationSAN FRANCISCO
Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:50 PM
Lance1967,
Unfortunately you are observing what we have all be saying for years now. This debacle has nothing whatsoever to do with what Dobyns did or didn't do. This is about a Bureau out of control, with managers who do not posses the ability to take ownership of their mistakes. There is NO mandate within the agency to do "the right thing".No accountability. The Department and the Agency have given immunity to unethical and corrupt managers. Agent Dobyns has NEVER harmed this agency in any form or fashion. In spite of the outrageous actions of the agency against SA Dobyns and his family, he still publicly champions this Bureau, its mission and its people. Please follow through with your intent to contact your representatives in the U.S. Congress. Perhaps Sen. Grassley and Sen. Leahy as well. An agency that will attack its own heros is very dangerous to the public it serves. If an agency is willing to expend millions of taxpayer dollars to cover its mistakes against one of its own, what are they prepared to do to the public at large?
<!-- isHtml:1 --><!-- isHtml:1 -->
#18
lancebone1967
-
- Members
-
- 34 posts
Regular
Posted 11 August 2010 - 09:00 AM
I just read the book No Angel for the second time. This brought me to research Mr. Dobyns. This in turn brought me to this website. This in turn allowed me to learn of the legal battles Mr. Dobyns is facing with ATF.
How much money has ATF committed to defending the allegations that, “ATF determined there was no viable threat to SA Dobyns without adequate investigation” and that, “ATF needlessly and inappropriately delayed its response to threats against SA Dobyns and his family”? Both are quotations taken from the United States Office of Special Counsel report found on this website.
How much money has ATF spent to prosecute Mr. Dobyns for No Angel?
Does ATF believe that this is an appropriate use of funding and resources when firearm violence is rampant here and on the U.S. – Mexico border and our government is in fiscal distress? Should not my tax dollars be dedicated to a more noble mission than to attack one of your own agents and a very good one at that?
Once this posting is approved by the moderator and posted I will be sending a copy of it to my Senators and Congressmen.
#19
x1811
-
- Members
-
- 75 posts
Regular
- LocationEverywhere
Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:36 PM
No Confidence vote by ICE Agents
http://www.examiner....-taxpayer-drain
Also see: http://www.washingto...cking-illegals/
#20
ProConfesso
-
- Validating
-
- 175 posts
Regular
- Location10-20
Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:26 AM
No Confidence vote by ICE Agents
http://www.examiner....-taxpayer-drain
#21
Guest_microscope_*
Guest_microscope_*
-
- Guests
Posted 06 August 2010 - 07:26 PM
Deputy Director Melson has shined us on. What has changed?
DOJ announced today that the FBI will make the call on all bomb scenes. They get to decide if they want it or not before letting us into the scene.
Last week a SAC shut down a major op just because he was not personally comfortable and inspite of agent and SRT reps wanting to go.
CES's refuse to go over the border to investigate a border violence bombing and embarass the agency.
Will Clark is facing 20 years in a sewer prison in the Virgin Islands for doing his job. Agents who stepped up to get the word out hurt someones feelings in HQ are are being retaliated against and disciplined.
Headquarters if frozen in their tracks for "Traver Watch".
Apathy is spread throughout 99 New York Avenue.
FBI is running home invasion operatoins in Chicago. INS is making gun cases on the southwest border. Customs are doing their own Nexus determinations and submitting firearms trafficking cases for prosecution.
The acts of retaliation and harrassment are on the rise inspite of DD Melson's reasurance on national television that they do not exist. Attorneys who have bullied agents for decades are in place and continuing with their tactics.
Utterly terrible SES's hold positions that they never should have been granted.
In the mean time ATF executives blame for anything and everything that has gone wrong on the field. The accountablity, character and integrity of our leadership is at an all-time low.
This is what happens when a federal agency doesn't have a Director. One who can command respect and ensure that we are not taken advantage of from the outside and are treated respectfully from the inside.
Where is Steve Higgins or John Magaw when you need them. Higgins made sure agents were treated well and made to feel like a part of the agency and Magaw would have put the theft of our jurisdictions down immediately.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
