61 replies to this topic

[kNIGHTFLYER]

As a new member,I have chosen to read and try to understand all issues pertaining to the BATF and the Justice dept.Now as a retired Marine,it was hard for me to get past all the illegal actions taken by upper management of The BATF and D.O.J.,but my eye's are now wide open.In the past,there were many things that occured with the than ATF that were very disturbing and caught my eye.From Waco,Ruby Ridge, and Fast and Furious,to many individual actions against American cits. It seems that the upper management has become overtly political and anti-American.Although I have much respect for the foot soldier,it appears to me from the President on down to Holder and BATF management,that they all belong in Levenworth.I believe that the BTAF should be disbanded in the near future or at the least,put under new management that has respect for this great nation,it laws and Constitution.With that said,I live on the Southwest border,it remains untaimed.I know personally many BP agents that will tell you the same thing.Holder and friends,with their Fast and Furious game and all the offshoots are no friend to the Border agents or the people of Mexico.Murder has been commited against our agents and thousands of native Mexicans curtisey of Holder/DOJ/BATF.The border is now less secure than anytime I can remember in the last 30 years.Drugs and people flow over it just as the rio-grande flows.The BATF and for the most part,the DOJ is broken and under poor leadership.I do however realize that someday it will be up to the American people to sort it all out.We can no longer count on the DC pols to accomplish this task.

[Doc Holiday]

As we have said all along, THIS IS OUR BUREAU. And we want it back. The Executive staff better change the way they do business, or LEAVE. Those are your Options.

The End of Days is coming for ATF's dirty executives.

Perjury. Obstruction of Justice. Retaliation. Fraud, Waste and Abuse. Abuse of Authority. Conduct Unbecoming. Creation of Hostile Work Enviornments. Internal Affairs cover-ups. Double-standard discipline. Failure to comply with Congressional requests. Lies to Congress. Contempt of Congress.

If the lowly scapegoats of ATF - Agents, Compliance Personell and Support Staff - had conducted themselves in the manner ATF's executives have they would be terminated and in handcuffs.

Our revolution against executive abuse has been recognized. The good will survive and be granted the opportunity to save ATF. The bad are nearing the end of their careers and it won't be on their terms. They are on the verge of terminations, criminal charges and convictions. This hits them in the only place they care about - career, promotion, resume, after-ATF employment and pension.

Bye-Bye to the corrupt bullies and hello to the new era of ATF.

[Winston Smith]

Guys,

Slow down a minute. Instead of shit-canning our Agency even though it can be fun and correct, let’s discuss this logically, even though I agree with the conclusion that ATF does focus too much efforts on adopted cases.

What did Syracuse U’s study tell us? They have concluded that DOJ (not just ATF) weapons prosecutions have fallen to the lowest level since January 2001. They discuss the total of federal weapons prosecutions filed by the USAO, and acknowledge that prosecutions vary widely among the 90 judicial districts in the U.S. This is stating the obvious which all 1811’s know is attributed to the fact that not all AUSA’s are created equally. Each USAO has their own criteria for case acceptance. No fault to SU, but how would they begin to measure results from this? Does anyone know if this study addressed the number of cases presented by ATF in relation to the number of cases accepted for prosecution? Has the study examined reasons why AUSA’s have declined cases for prosecution? What about cases we present with multiple defendants that we feel we can charge, yet the AUSA decides to prosecute one or maybe two defendants, and not pursue all the charges we feel we can prove? It should come as no surprise that ATF has more federal firearms prosecutions than other agencies. Nothing negative for ATF on that finding. Maybe the study can be used to question what the USAO is doing in certain venues instead of trying to beat up ATF.

If someone has this study, please post a link.

According to your stats, the “common lead charge in weapons cases was Title 18 Section 922 of the U.S. Code for unlawful acts involving firearms. This single section accounted for 4 out of every five of the lead charges filed in weapons cases during the first four months of FY 2011. This charge was also ranked first both in FY 2010 and in FY 2009. Ranked second in frequency was the lead charge "Firearms; Penalties" under Title 18 U.S.C Section 924. This same charge also was second in the rankings in the previous two years.”

We can all agree that these are probably ATF’s two most frequently used charges, which unto itself is not a bad thing. Many of these charges are a result of ATF working adopted cases against serious offenders who deserve lengthier sentences. Yeah yeah, I know there are some B.S. cases that get prosecuted for the wrong reasons as you guys stated in previous posts. While local/state police can work gun cases, many AUSA‘s complain that they prefer ATF agents to handle these cases in federal court.

Many of our Enforcement programs are focused on violent felons such as Project Exile and VCIT, which congress has supported through increased funding. Our top management has simply chosen to follow the funding. Hate to admit it, but that is somewhat logical from a business perspective. The policy became work lots of quick cases, don't spend too much $, and show tangible results such as decent jail sentences. Does that help explain the situation? I realize that our Misguided Leadership has probably oversold some of our 922(g)(1) programs to Congress as well as the rank and file agents. While talented agents want to work original cases, they also work some 922(g)(1)'s. Many of us have developed these basic cases into much more because we used our investigative skills.

These same investigative skills are eroding through Misguided Leadership. It is apparent that our Academy staffers are not stressing fundamental skills such as interviewing, developing evidence, and reporting investigative findings, which are essential to making solid cases. Our Misguided Leadership has sent the wrong employees to teach Rookies @ the Academy.

Misguided leadership has over-prioritized the simpler 922(g)(1) based programs. Misguided Leadership has allowed too many self-serving, vindictive supervisors to be promoted and continue on their path of destroying the agency. Misguided Leadership in ATF has allowed inexperienced agents to test for management too soon in their careers. These same people become a GS or project manager, and then fly up to ASAC without seeing the big picture. Do you really expect any of them to have an original investigative thought if they never did this job properly? Many of these Blue Flame 14's never achieved more than mediocre investigative success, yet they received an award for a menial role on someone elses' big case. This is similar to getting a trophy because you were on a Rec league team, even if the team lost all their games. While this is great for building an 8 year old’s self-esteem, it is unrealistic and unfair for Special Agents who run these cases and the sacrifices they make in the process. Our Misguided Leadership wants us to believe they can make chicken salad with chicken shit, and that everyone should be happy about it because they toss in a free soft drink and chips. You get the picture. How can anyone expect these people to help develop and train new agents to work complex cases?

[SFC_Swede]

"We have openly reported to Senators Leahy, Feinstein, and others with documentation and proof of Waste, Fraud and Abuse, Gross mismanagement and Internal abuses and self promoting practices which have created an institutional air of fear and reprisal."

Sir, with all due respect, approaching Senators Leahy and Feinstein may have been part of the problem. It is this citizens honest opinion that neither of these two are interested in the Constitution or Rule of Law. Unless of course that rule of law agrees with them and their ideology. I also dont believe the Republican's have the cashews to go against this Administration or the DOJ either for political reasons. Time will tell.

I have a great deal of respect for LEO's who put themselves on the line as much or more than I do as a US Soldier. And I am thankful to see that steps are being taken from within to bring honor and fidelity to the ATF and restore its imagine in the eyes of the American people. We all took oaths to protect the Constitution of the United States and operate with the rule of law, and thanks to you folks a lot of false images of the agency are being dispelled. Best of luck.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Does anyone know if SAC Torres is going to be charged with abuse of authority for strongarming the production company? Did the agency refer it to the IG? Shouldn't he be relieved of duty and sued by the DOJ for harming the agency like they have done to SA Dobyns? Isn't extortion illegal. Especially under color of law.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

When I was helping a task force prepare a threat asssessment, I was taught the following concept: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics".

Having stated that, I learned in the 1990's that if you are going to analyze something, you have to answer four words: "What does it mean?"

In the 2000's, if you are going to analyze something, you have to answer two words: "So what?"

If ATF is going to encourage quantity over quality, the agency is doomed. I would venture to say that one case: The Oklahoma City Bombing Case, did not look impressive for the statistics. However, the American People demanded that the tragic event be investigated, solved and the people responsible be prosecuted.

Little cases cause little problems. Big cases cause big problems.

I am still not understanding how this ATF is allowed to continue functioning. No leadership and no accountable. Bad directions are issued by those who are actor in charges and the running record shows a steady decline in results. Syracuse University seems to think that your Justice has failed.

Weapons Prosecutions Decline To Lowest Level in a Decade........................

[beckroge]

I am still not understanding how this ATF is allowed to continue functioning. No leadership and no accountability. Bad directions are issued by those who are actor in charges and the running record shows a steady decline in results. Syracuse University seems to think that your Justice has failed.

Weapons Prosecutions Decline To Lowest Level in a Decade

• Number Latest Month 484
• Percent Change from previous month -7.5
• Percent Change from 1 year ago -7.9
• Percent Change from 5 years ago -28.8

Table 1: Criminal Weapons Prosecutions

The latest available data from the Justice Department show that during January 2011 the government reported 484 new weapons prosecutions. This is the lowest level to which federal weapons prosecutions have fallen since January 2001, when they were 445 at the time President George W. Bush assumed office. The comparisons of the number of defendants charged with weapons-related offenses are based on case-by-case information obtained by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) under the Freedom of Information Act from the Executive Office for United States Attorneys (see Table 1). When monthly 2011 prosecutions of this type are compared with those of the same period in the previous year, the number of filings was down 7.9 percent, and down 28.8 percent from levels reported in 2006.

Monthly trends in weapons prosecutions

The decrease from the levels five years ago in weapons prosecutions for these matters is shown more clearly in Figure 1. The vertical bars in Figure 1 represent the number of weapons prosecutions of this type recorded on a month-to-month basis. The superimposed line on the bars plots the six-month moving average so that natural fluctuations are smoothed out. The one and five-year rates of change in Table 1 are based upon this six-month moving average.

• Judicial District HQ City Number Rate* Rank
• Top Ranked
• Ala, S Mobile 28 33.9 1
• N Mexico Albuquerque 60 29.9 2
• Ga, S Savannah 33 22.6 3
• Tenn, W Memphis 34 21.9 4
• Wyoming Cheyenne 11 20.2 5
• Mo, E St. Louis 55 18.9 6
• Tenn, E Knoxville 45 17.9 7
• Kansas Topeka 50 17.7 8
• Iowa, S Des Moines 30 17.6 9
• Miss, N Oxford 19 17.1 10
• Bottom Ranked
• Ill, N Chicago 25 2.7 80
• Mich, W Gran Rapids 9 2.6 81
• Ind, S Indianapolis 10 2.6 82
• Cal, C Los Angeles 46 2.5 83
• New Hamp Concord 3 2.3 84
• Ga, N Atlanta 14 2.2 85
• Mass Boston 14 2.1 86
• Cal, N San Francisco 16 2.1 87
• Penn, M Scranton 6 1.9 88
• La, M Baton Rouge 1 1.3 89
• Penn, W Pittsburgh 4 1.1 90
• * Rate is number per million population.
• Table 2. Top and Bottom Ranked Districts
• Federal Weapons Prosecutions
• FY 2011 (first 4 months)
• Top and Bottom Ranked Districts

So far during the first four months of FY 2011 there have been a total of 2,260 federal criminal weapons prosecutions filed by federal prosecutors. On average, this translates into over 7 prosecutions for each million individuals in the country. However, prosecutions vary widely among the 90 federal judicial districts in the United States. The top and bottom districts are listed in Table 2.

The state with the highest rate of federal prosecutions relative to its population was the Southern District of Alabama (Mobile) with four and a half times the rate of prosecutions compared with the average in the country. New Mexico (Albuquerque), the Southern District of Georgia (Savannah), the Western District of Tennessee (Memphis), and Wyoming (Cheyenne) round out the top five.

None of the districts with the largest cities in the country make the top 10. In contrast, those districts ranking in the bottom tier contain a number of large metropolitan areas. These include the Northern District of Illinois (Chicago) ranked 80th, the Central District of California (Los Angeles) ranked 83rd, the Northern District of Georgia (Atlanta) ranked 85th, Massachusetts (Boston) ranked 86th, and the Northern District of California (San Francisco) ranked 87th.

Lead Investigative Agency

In three out of every four (76%) federal prosecutions during FY 2011, the lead investigative agency was the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (see Table 3). The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) accounted for another 9 percent. State and local authorities were the third most frequent source of investigative referrals with 4.3 percent, followed closely by Immigration and Customs Enforcement with 4.1 percent. The Drug Enforcement Administration was fifth with 2.0 percent.

• All Federal Weapons Prosecutions 2,260 100.0%
• Justice - Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (formerly Treasury) 1,708 75.6%
• Justice - Federal Bureau of Investigation 211 9.3%
• State/Local Authorities 97 4.3%
• Homeland Security - Immigration and Customs Enforcement 94 4.2%
• Justice - Drug Enforcement Administration 55 2.4%
• All other 95 4.2%

Top Ten Weapons Charges

The most common lead charge in weapons cases was Title 18 Section 922 of the U.S. Code for unlawful acts involving firearms. This single section accounted for 4 out of every five of the lead charges filed in weapons cases during the first four months of FY 2011. This charge was also ranked first both in FY 2010 and in FY 2009. Ranked second in frequency was the lead charge "Firearms; Penalties" under Title 18 U.S.C Section 924. This same charge also was second in the rankings in the previous two years. The third most commonly recorded lead charge were brought under the "Hobbs Act" under Title 18 U.S.C Section 1951. Charges under the "Hobbs Act" have moved up in the rankings over time. Last year the charge was fourth. In FY 2005 it was ranked sixth, while in FY 2000 it was seventh. Other lead charges among the ten most frequent weapons charges are shown in Table 4.

• All Federal Weapons Prosecutions 2,260 100.0%
• 18 USC 922 - Firearms; Unlawful acts 1,788 79.1%
• 18 USC 924 - Firearms; Penalties 115 5.1%
• 18 USC 1951 - Hobbs Act 111 4.9%
• 21 USC 841 - Drug Abuse Prevention & Control-Prohibited acts A 51 2.3%
• 26 USC 5861 - Tax on Making Firearms - Prohibited acts 49 2.2%
• 21 USC 846 - Attempt and conspiracy 34 1.5%
• 18 USC 371 - Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud US 26 1.2%
• 18 USC 1962 - RICO - prohibited activities 17 0.8%
• 18 USC 554 - Smuggling goods from the United States 11 0.5%
• 22 USC 2778 - Control of arms exports and imports 10 0.4%
• All other 48 2.1%

[x1811]

Where I come from, the locals (real police) call us "Steal A Stat" agents! It's embarrasing as hell! It's because we have lost our focus and leadership. If an agent does 5 adopted cases, he/she gets a pat on the back. If an agent does a self initiated investigation, they get their ass chewed for not producing stats!

For all the media and citizens who read these posts, let me explain what adopted cases are. Its very simple. A local police department makes an arrest, which also has Federal jurisdiction, such as a felon in possession of a firearm (which by the way, is probably 90% of ATF cases). The case can either be filed in state court or federal court. Now, here's how we end up with these adopted cases.

1. The police department refers it to ATF, which usually only happens with big police departments because they have
a lot of these type cases. Which by the way, most ATF offices have a police officer assigned to the ATF office
to do those exact type cases, so really they are referring them to themselves, therefor no really good reason for
an ATF agent to do them. (I know, its confusing) And to add to the confusion, the police departments can file
the federal charges themselves if they want, so really, ATF is not needed in this situation.
2. The ATF agent has established a relationship with someone in the District Attorneys office, who gets these cases
from the local police department, who are filing the charges in the state system. Again, the District Attorneys
office can file and prosecute most of the cases in state court, but because we usually literally beg for these
adopted cases because they are quick and easy, the DA's office will shoot us a few, so in reality, ATF is again
not needed in this situation.
3. The United States Attorneys Office, which most of them are former assistant district attorneys and know each
other, will call their former employer, the District Attorneys Office, and ask for some adopted cases to refer to
an ATF agent. And yes, the United States Attorneys Office also pads their stats with these adopted cases, and
are required to do as many as they can get. So in this case, neither the ATF or United States Attorneys office
is needed in this situation.

Basically, the only reason ATF does adopted cases is for five reasons. The first is STATS. The second is STATS. The third is STATS. The fourth is STATS. And the fifth is a bad guy will sometimes get more time in the federal system. Oh, and I just thought of a sixth reason......STATS! I'm also giving the public an opportunity to learn to do "adopted cases". This course will be a one hour course and will be given online. The cost is minimal. The first 30 minutes will be devoted to me telling you how important the "New and improved" ATF is to you and your community. The next 15 minutes will be devoted to the loyalty you will recieve from Headquarters. The next 5 minutes will be a coffee break and finally, the last 5 minutes will be all about training YOU to do adopted cases. (certificate will be extra).

If I am misguided in anyway, please feel free to correct me, OR to add to my "reasons for adopted cases".

Once Proud makes an interesting analogy. Has anyone in ATF analyzed the statistics? If one were to take the net number of agents working cases (total agents minus those with admin jobs) and divide that number by the amount of cases prosecuted in the first quarter, 1,700, the results would be about one prosecution, or less, per agent. By identifying how many of these 1,700 prosecutions are adoption cases, the number of cases initiated by agents independent of adopting state cases would yeild a lower ratio of significant impact cases investigated by the ATF. How many agents are really out there initiating undercover cases, writing T-3's and wearing out shoe leather, as opposed to those that are cherry picking local stats? With the number of cases prosecuted by the USAO trending downward, this could lead to the reduction of funding and new hires for the future of ATF, especially in times of dwindling federal budgets and competition for scarce resources.

[GoodWorker]

I'm with you folks, but does it really matter about adoptions? If these numbers are even close, we have dropped off prosecutions 28% in 5 years. Mr. Melson,Billy,Chait, all DADs, how do you feel about these "BIGTIME" T-III cases now? We told you so. Im glad Martin and Co. got pats on the back and huge awards but at what cost? Customs is doing our job now, FBI has our jurisdictions now. Remember Sir, when we told you in writing over and over your leadership was taking you down the wrong road? Hate to say it again, WE TOLD YOU SO. Wheres Newell now with the "we seized thousands of guns and ammo" Now? Stats are just that. ATF has always been able to back a stat with a prison sentence. Not any more. And PLEASE stop saying its money. Or manpower, because its neither. Its piss poor vision and leadership.

Wow! I am ashamed of these stats.

[Doc Holiday]

I'm with you folks, but does it really matter about adoptions? If these numbers are even close, we have dropped off prosecutions 28% in 5 years. Mr. Melson,Billy,Chait, all DADs, how do you feel about these "BIGTIME" T-III cases now? We told you so. Im glad Martin and Co. got pats on the back and huge awards but at what cost? Customs is doing our job now, FBI has our jurisdictions now. Remember Sir, when we told you in writing over and over your leadership was taking you down the wrong road? Hate to say it again, WE TOLD YOU SO. Wheres Newell now with the "we seized thousands of guns and ammo" Now? Stats are just that. ATF has always been able to back a stat with a prison sentence. Not any more. And PLEASE stop saying its money. Or manpower, because its neither. Its piss poor vision and leadership.

How many of these were "adoption" cases?

[x1811]

Negative press.
http://trac.syr.edu/...ports/crim/249/

How many of these were "adoption" cases?

[ProConfesso]

Negative press. http://trac.syr.edu/...ports/crim/249/

[GoodWorker]

Interesting email that could have also been a relevent posting under the Gunrunner topic. This just seemed to the most logical home for it. Crazy given the time period it was sent and in context of today's issues. The highlight in red is my insertion and was not a part of the original message but is provided to focus your attention (Senator Grassley). Anybody know if this ever made it to air? We know ATF wanted it to.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sellers, Donna J.
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:00 PM
To: Kehn, Eric D.; Perot, Franceska D.; Mangan, Thomas G.; Crowley, Thomas J. (Dallas); Green, Joseph G.; Jackson, Marc S. (Atlanta); Banks, Austin R.; Rowley, Raymond G.; Spencer, John R.
Cc: Reichert, Todd H.; Wade, Drew J.; Kemp, Janice L.; Mattingly, Kathryn A.
Subject: Roker Entertainment Request


All,

Reference Al Roker Entertainment, Inc., and the ATF documentary: Due to Mr. Roker’s schedule and his interest in doing some of the interviews the optimum dates of interviewing ATF employees and filming in the DC area and selected Field Divisions has been pushed back to the second and/or third week in March. I apologize for the delay, however do ask that you still look at the cases/topics of interest and pull the appropriate case files to help OPA with planning for interviews.

Once we know the availability of Mr. Roker we can work the details for his visits to the Firearms Vault and indoor range and the Lab along with the FD filming.

I’ll be talking with the senior producers today and will try to get any advance questions and more specific areas they want to discuss relative to each case.

If you have any questions please give me a call. If I haven’t mentioned it before, MSNBC has already committed to airing this documentary beginning in June or July.

Again here are the cases/topics that will be covered in the documentary and the FD we are asking for support:

Nashville FD – Alabama Free Militia (They would like to interview the case agent; obtain any ops or surveillance video if available; talk with one of the leaders)

Houston, Dallas and Phoenix FD – Operation Gunrunner (highlight a large case using ATF video and case files; interview with ATF agents)

New York FD – The two investigations netting 10 traffickers (case files, ops and/or surveillance video if available)

Atlanta FD – Straw Purchasers (something similar to Wellons, Randolph and Prater case; small town individual seeking fast money; subject in jail or about to go to jail)

New Orleans FD – Gun Dealer Jefferson Parish (if the case is adjudicated, case file, interview case agent(s); any video)

Thanks

Donna J. Sellers
Office of Public Affairs
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
99 New York Ave., NE, Suite 5-S223
Washington, DC 20226
(202) 648-XXXX

With all of the bad press ATF has gotten lately, I would think this is not going to be positive.

[GoodWorker]

At least Mueller is being honest and its so funny because its so true. I heard FBI agents are evaluated on their ability to cultivate 2 sources per month. Thats all they want them to do. Investigations of crimes is not a priority. I have heard some say that they wished the FBI would take over ATF's jurisdiction becuase they think they would act better. Have you ever heard of the proverb that you should be careful what you wish for you may just get it and good luck.

I am no fan of the FBI but I seriously do not believe this one. I have worked some cases with them in the last 10 years and we have solved cases together. Obviously they are the masters of concealing information from other agencies but they have solved cases. They could solve a lot more if they had better relations with other agencies. Yes it was the onion.

[Veritas]

At least Mueller is being honest and its so funny because its so true. I heard FBI agents are evaluated on their ability to cultivate 2 sources per month. Thats all they want them to do. Investigations of crimes is not a priority. I have heard some say that they wished the FBI would take over ATF's jurisdiction becuase they think they would act better. Have you ever heard of the proverb that you should be careful what you wish for you may just get it and good luck.

[abteilung]

It's got to be something from "The Onion."

[Winston Smith]

ATF saved by the FBI?

FBI Director Sheepishly Admits Agency Hasn't Solved Single Crime In 10 YearsApril 7, 2011 | ISSUE 47•14

WASHINGTON—In response to a probe into the bureau's operational costs, FBI director Robert Mueller timidly told Congress Wednesday that the organization he oversees has not technically solved any crimes since 2001.


Mueller says the agency has been "busy with a lot of other stuff" during the 10-year span.
After confirming that the FBI does indeed have more than 13,000 special agents deployed to investigate cases all across the country, Mueller stressed that the bureau's internal process was "complicated," and that the fact that not one case file has been closed in the past decade is not unexpected.

According to records, the last case the FBI officially solved was a Topeka, KS mail fraud offense in February 2001.

"It's hard to explain to a layman precisely how our operations work, but it's really more about analyzing crimes than it is about actually, you know, arresting perpetrators and convicting them," a fidgeting Mueller said. "It's a process, is what I'm trying to say. It isn't always so simple as 'solved' and 'unsolved.' That's been especially true this decade, I think."

"Besides, solving crimes, per se, is relatively basic," Mueller added. "We're trying to set our sights a little higher, is the thing."

According to Mueller, while the FBI has worked tirelessly over the past decade to obtain leads, collect a substantial amount of evidence, and organize a thorough criminal database, it has still failed to solve any cases, despite coming close several times.

Offering a variety of reasons for the surprising results, Mueller insisted that while many in the agency would love to be solving more federal crimes, in the end, the majority of cases usually work themselves out anyway.

"I think the problem here is that everybody is thinking too narrowly about this whole crime-solving thing," said Mueller, adding that preventing crimes from happening in the first place was much more important than solving crimes that had already been committed and that no one could do anything about at that point. "Besides, a lot of the really softball, solvable cases don't come across our desk at all. We let local law enforcement handle that stuff, and, you know, we don't want to step on their toes or anything."

"Honestly, I don't even associate the words 'FBI' and 'solving crimes' in my mind, really," Mueller added.

Mueller also said that investigative journalists basically solve 20 percent of crimes before the FBI even has a chance.

Growing increasingly frustrated, Mueller testified that in a broader sense, the problem of crime could not really be "solved" unless society were changed as a whole—a task, he said, that did not fall under the FBI's purview.

"We spend a lot of hours investigating and we have arrested suspects, but even if you convict someone, what have you accomplished?" Mueller asked. "At the end of the day, we can slap some cuffs on some creep, but that's not going to bring 15 decapitated kids back. That's not solving anything."

When asked for an accounting of the bureau's $7.9 billion budget, Mueller said a significant portion of those funds were dedicated to eliminating those who question the FBI's accounting.

Does anyone have additional information on this?

[Winston Smith]

Does any of this surprise you? Look at the typical agents who are selected for PIO slots or go to Public Affairs as Program Mgrs. The vast majority of these guys made few if any cases besides adopted 922(g)'s. They have trouble finding their asses with both hands let alone with assistance of their significant other. Besides, they are afraid of independent thought. Most PIO's think they are entitled to these positions for the duration of their career, thus keeping them off the streets and home bound @ 5pm.

The FBI for all they are, assign decent, hard working agents as Public Affairs types. Seldom does one see overweight, sloppy FBI PIO's out there.

Too little, too late. I have always wondered during my years at ATF why ATF does not do more press releases on the great investigations they do. FBI is in the national news it seems once a week. In 10 years, our PIO did not do one press release on all of the good work our trafficking group did. Some pretty major cases and many very dangerous bad guys taken off of the street. Weren't looking for glory, just wanted the tax paying public to know of all of our hard work.

When the the public thinks of ATF, they mostly think Waco and Ruby Ridge. FBI media gurus spun there way out of those debacles. Same across the country.

Always wondered why ATF pays an 1811 PIO $130,000 a year to do nothing.

[ProConfesso]

http://www.justice.g.../2011_04_06.pdf

[bythebook]

Last week a long term investigation by ATF Phoenix was concluded with volumes of arrests, evidence seizures, etc. The case displayed the good work that Phoenix Agents are capable of producing.

Oh, didn't hear about it?

That's because no self respecting media outlet is naive enough to get sucked into assisting Thomasson's attempt to cover up Gunrunner.

It's a damn shame too. Thomasson became so self important in his roll as ATF's "Media Czar" that he actually believed that the press worked for him. He has embarrassed himself and the agency in every postion he has held at ATF so this comes as no surprise.

This long term investigation was truly a phenominal case but unfortunately it came after the fast and furious disaster. From what I hear the reason there is not more media attention is because the case agent is not one of the SACs or ASACs "favorites". Honestly, I wouldn't want to be one of their "favorites" either. All I can say is that those of us outside of Phoenix know what is going on and we support the good work of the agents involved in this case.

[ProConfesso]

Will OIG get "Fast & Furious" (ed. comment - gee, what a dumb name anyway, just shows inculcation of pop culture in whats supposed to be serious LE work) right? http://www.justice.g.../2011_03_30.pdf

[Outsider]

Last week a long term investigation by ATF Phoenix was concluded with volumes of arrests, evidence seizures, etc. The case displayed the good work that Phoenix Agents are capable of producing.

Oh, didn't hear about it?

That's because no self respecting media outlet is naive enough to get sucked into assisting Thomasson's attempt to cover up Gunrunner.

It's a damn shame too. Thomasson became so self important in his roll as ATF's "Media Czar" that he actually believed that the press worked for him. He has embarrassed himself and the agency in every postion he has held at ATF so this comes as no surprise.

This is a classic example of why those of us outside of law enforcement are so adamant about tossing the bad eggs from the carton. While it is easy to brand some critics as anti cop, the reality is what we want to see are the successes by good agents/officers and not see their work obscured or tarnished by the self-aggrandizing, career focused truth-twisters who don't care who they step or cheat on so long as they advance with impunity. So long as these losers you all are exposing here remain unpunished, the good men and their fine work will not get the credit so well deserved. I want to have reason to LIKE the ATF as an agency, not just the individual agents I know are honest and helpful.

I have received more than one appeal, from a relatively new gun rights org, seeking signatures for a petition to Congress calling for the defunding of ATF. To be honest, even a few months ago I would have put my name on it without hesitation. On the one hand, the Gunrunner revelations could easily have pushed my buttons even more. But since I was introduced to this site, and have had the great experience of reading so much from people inside the agency who share many of the same concerns I have had (for years) on the outside, I find I am not willing to add my name to that petition at this time. I have seen a different side that, previously, I could only have hoped existed. That took a certain faith that now I have ample evidence of. In spite of the occasional voice who will, in effect, defend the agency against this kind of public exposure, I see only hope on these pages. It is not only the agents who have this venue to vent in without concern for repercussion who find great comfort here. I don't think I am the only member of the public at large who has found the same.

[Bombtech2]

I heard a strong rumor today that Scot has been subpoenaed to appear before Congress...this should be good!

[Doctor]

Let us not forget the time proven axiom of Big Cases: Enthusiasm, Disillusionment, Panic and hysteria, Search for the guilty, Punishment of the innocent, and Praise and honor for the non participants. Do we really expect lawyers, be they from main Justice or a Congressional staff to pass judgment on other lawyers? Accountability has always ended at the lowest possible pay grade. Do the best you can with what you have to work with, hope for the best and watch each others backs.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Go to the 10 minute mark on the linked interview with the Honorable Chairman Issa.



To the Honorable Chairman Issa,
There are MANY of us who have tried to illuminate how OUR Bureau has spun out of control for the last 3-4 years. We have openly reported to Senators Leahy, Feinstein, and others with documentation and proof of Waste, Fraud and Abuse, Gross mismanagement and Internal abuses and self promoting practices which have created an institutional air of fear and reprisal. Honorable Agents by the dozens have suffered withering reprisals which quite frankly, led to and allowed the Gun Walking business to occur. Years of bullying and arrogance built by years of ZERO accountability has created an environment where the senior management of ATF believes they are above the law and untouchable. We have reported Directly to AG Holder, Directors Sullivan and Melson. We have been punished for our integrity. You will have difficulty in finding those who will step forward. We will do all that is within our power to encourage those who WILL speak the truth to come forward. Please dont leave them hanging like so many of us have been.

March 16th, 2011 letter from Congressman Darrell Issa, Chairman of the House Committee on Oversight & Government Reform, to ATF Acting Director Kenneth Melson:

[Doc Holiday]

Hows that workin for ya Thomasson? In reading the story's posted on our own news page, its at about 70/30. Looking like the cat is out of the bag regarding the Fifth floor and gross mismanagement. Cant post (good stuff) that isn't printed. Hey look at it this way, at least Mexico isnt trying to extradite you. YET. Maybe with your past comments regarding the Hells Angels and RICOs, youll get to voice your opinion at the upcoming Capital Murder trials of the Angels in Az. On second thought, lets hope not.

[apostate]

Too little, too late. I have always wondered during my years at ATF why ATF does not do more press releases on the great investigations they do. FBI is in the national news it seems once a week. In 10 years, our PIO did not do one press release on all of the good work our trafficking group did. Some pretty major cases and many very dangerous bad guys taken off of the street. Weren't looking for glory, just wanted the tax paying public to know of all of our hard work. When the the public thinks of ATF, they mostly think Waco and Ruby Ridge. FBI media gurus spun there way out of those debacles. Same across the country. Always wondered why ATF pays an 1811 PIO $130,000 a year to do nothing.

[Thor God of Thunder]

I like many of you are disgusted by ATF management and their lack of candor with Congress, the tax payers, the family of the fallen border patrol agent and their own employees. The janitors and bathroom attendants have more integrity and ethics in one of their pinky fingers than some of our elites have in their entire bodies. While ATF management did not pull the trigger in the shoot out that ended the border patrol agent's life, ATF management might as well done it. It is in ATF's dna, it is in every ATF Special Agents' dna, it is in every ATF Industry Operations Investigators' dna and every other job series' dna not to let firearms walk because we know that firearms while handled safely and properly can be enjoyed as part of your 2nd ammendment rights. We also know that when firearms fall in the wrong hands the end result is the loss of life. The loss of life, regardless of whether it is on our side of the border or the other side must be stopped. These idiots that can't see the forest for the trees and have the long titles should have been able to forsee that the loss of life would be the natural consequence, if firearms were allowed to walk. These bumbling idiots and buffoons, all the way up to DOJ, have contributed to the loss of life by allowing FIREARMS to be transported across the border. The whole lot of them should be indicted and receive jail time for their involvement and approval in this tragic and unfortunate situation. Those directly involved in covering it up or trying to silence the truth should incarcerated for LIFE! This is how serious this matter is and should be viewed and handled. ATF can't handle the Truth!

[Zorro]

Good ambassador work, too; typical arrogance - someone needs to get that insult to Sheriff Joe (a real cop). I bet most of Arpaio's jailers are more trustworthy than our "elites".

[Doc Holiday]

DOC HOLIDAY WANTS TO KNOW; if we recovered 500+ of the 700+ guns we knowingly allowed to hit the border in what will ultimately be characterized as the "greatest failure" in our Bureaus history, WHERE WERE THOSE GUNS RECOVERED? Were they recovered at murder scenes in Mexico? Were there any Mexican law enforcement deaths attributed to any of these guns? It would appear 500 guns were recovered in a fairly short period. Please tell me we havent ignored this. And Sen. Grassley needs to ask WHO seized 10000 guns? That would equate to approx. 250 guns by EVERY agent in all 4 field divisions. Since its a fact that we have Agents who haven't seized 250 guns in an entire career, how could that be? Claiming seizures made by other agencys as our own perhaps? Coding cases to bolster numbers? Remember when we didn't need HQ to lie about our accomplishments?

[avatar]

The Spanish language newspaper El Diario de El Paso has published a story on "Project Gunwalker." Per the Google Translate link of the story appearing on the El Diario de Chihuahua website: http://translate.goo...ION=El%&act=url By the way, allowing U.S. arms trafficking to Mexico This is one of the allegations in a network by employees of the Bureau of Alcohol, Snuff, Firearms and Explosives El Diario de El Paso Sunday, January 30, 2011 | 8:25:59 AM El Paso, Texas. Contrary to its policy to stop it, America would be allowing the smuggling of firearms into Mexico intentionally during investigations conducted and the neighboring country without knowing it. This is one of the allegations have emerged recently in a network by employees of the Bureau of Alcohol, Snuff, Firearms and Explosives (ATF, for its acronym in English), dissatisfied with irregularities alleged to have committed the federal agency. The allegations of arms trafficking were ratified by a source in El Paso. In CleanUpATF.org blog has reported anonymously, since the ATF supposedly "gives the green light to U.S. gun dealers to sell weapons to suspects, until the officers" inflated "statistics of seizures of weapons to justify the millionaire budget federal agency. ATF officials in Washington, DC rejected the assumptions and declined comment on the blog. The smuggling of weapons and weak U.S. laws to control their sale and use have been in the public eye since early January in Arizona a man killed six people and left 14 injured, including Congressman Democrat Gabrielle Giffords. Last week the Washington Post criticized President Barack Obama to omit the subject in his report on the State of the Union. "On Tuesday, the president left out an important opportunity to talk about why weapons sensible regulations, including those that prohibit the type of high capacity magazine used by the handle of Arizona, should again be a national priority," according to its editorial published Thursday. Also this week, as part of the World Economic Forum in Switzerland, the former U.S. President Bill Clinton expressed his concern to his Mexican counterpart, Felipe Calderon, the constant flow of high-powered weapons purchased in the United States going to Mexico which fall into the hands of criminals. "America will never change its current stance on the right of citizens to own a gun, but it has a responsibility to prevent arms trafficking and international interstate," he told El Diario de El Paso an ATF employee, who asked his name not be published, experience or position within the federal agency for fear of reprisals. Charged that the ATF has committed irregularities, such as allowing smuggling of arms to Mexico, during the course of research known as "gunwalkers." He explained that these investigative undercover agents "walk left" or "go" money or buying or selling arms to middlemen and smugglers "ant" to give the "big fish" or leader of a criminal organization. But many times, the same agents, instead of confiscating the weapons sold to them at the border on U.S. soil to the smugglers, or stop them, they let him go to Mexico. This "controlled delivery" occurs in Arizona and Texas, where they are usually the weapons used by drug cartels and confiscated in Mexico, he said. Worse, he said, is that the Government of Mexico know that the above is happening, noting that when agents try to expose their heads this alleged irregularity, are removed from their posts. So have reported on the blog CleanUpATF.org several ATF employees who say they are dissatisfied with the abuse, fraud and federal agency policies. The "blogger" identified as "1desertrat" reported in mid-January that a special agent allegedly Phoenix "has approved more than 500 rifles AR-15 in Tucson and Phoenix that have traveled to Mexico." "It appears that the ATF could be one of the largest providers of assault rifles to the cartels in Mexico," he says. The ATF employee who spoke to El Diario de El Paso on condition of anonymity could not say how many weapons involved in inquiries from the federal agency have been smuggled into Mexico, but felt that add up to 2 000 weapons for the past three years. "The ATF is not doing his work and perpetuates the problem (of illegal arms trafficking.) These weapons are killing their own citizens, their agents, "he said. Reviews of "1desertrat" and other "bloggers," have even suggested that one of the weapons have been smuggled to the neighboring country was knowingly used to kill ATF agent Brian Terry Border Patrol in Nogales, Arizona, last 14 December. ATF spokesman in Washington, DC, Scott Thomasson, declined to comment, saying the investigation into this case, the head of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI, for its acronym in English). She rejected the alleged claims made against the federal agency that, during his research allows the smuggling of weapons into Mexico. "We do not permit the exit of arms to Mexico," he said. The test is said, the project that launched Gunrunner United States and Mexico to reduce smuggling of weapons, which includes a database to track the origin of those who are seized in Mexico. Reported that from 2006 to date, only the ATF has produced 4 000 500 investigations and seized on U.S. soil 10 000 weapons and ammunition near a million before reaching Mexico. Furthermore, "working with Mexican authorities very closely," said Thomasson. He said the binational collaboration is so close that the ATF is coordinated, when "appropriate", with Mexican authorities in investigations into arms trafficking. In late 2010 the Office of the Inspector General of the Department of Justice released a report that analyzes the project Gunrunner, indicating that the ATF does not share information with other federal agencies, and communicates effectively with Mexican officials. "The federal agency does not share intelligence in a systematic and consistent with its sister agencies in Mexico and the United States," the report said. Including the offices of the Enforcement of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Customs and Border Protection (CBP). However, Thomasson said there was a "good coordination" with the last two federal agencies regarding the investigation of arms smuggling. The "bloggers," by CleanUpATF.org Gunrunner have labeled the project as "a joke", acknowledging also that ATF agents allegedly "inflated" the seizure of weapons. "New Mexico, Texas, Arizona and Los Angeles have never been committed to the idea of stopping the flow of weapons into Mexico. The money for this mission has been wasted and the operators in those divisions have been instructed to report any incident / investigation, no matter how far away is the Gunrunner "writes" bloquista "" X-Men. " "It seems that the administration of ATF prefer lying to Congress, falsifying figures and altering the numbers instead of doing the job," continues the text. The ATF employee who spoke to The Journal of El Paso agreed to this, explaining that agents allegedly sometimes write in their reports weapons confiscated, even by local police, without even an investigation. This justifies the budget that the agency receives each year, he added. The Justice Department report also noted that ATF case investigation evades which involve high-profile traffickers, focussing instead on the arms dealers.

[Doc Holiday]

Mr. Melson, Did you really try to sell the people at the shot show that M-1s are now a huge cartel draw? This holds NO credibility since Ms. Ficaretta attempted to BACKDOOR the importation with FALSE and misleading information. Furthermore, why is there conference calls with Ms. Ficaretta and DAD Martin and others trying to garner ex post facto support for the ridiculous representations in the memo to the State Department. Let Congress be Congress and lets JUST enforce the laws. We are still waiting for someones head to roll for releasing trace data to the Post.

[Doc Holiday]

Mr. Traver, No more time to ignore. Step up or withdraw your name. WE ARE "A" political. We dont try to legislate from the Bureau and we dont walk guns. You know it, We know it. Dont try the Smoke and Mirrors, its too late. There is NO need for EMERGENCY REPORTING, Simple enforcement will suffice.

[Doc Holiday]

Its only a guess Virginia, but my guess is that they are trying to justify any further expenditures or deployments, after the agency was so ridiculed in the Gunrunner OIG report.Maybe they are actually going to assess and put together a plan before launching a major initiative. Remember, our executive staff thought our previous efforts were a resounding success. Yes they were the only ones, and no they didn't solicit the people in the field who do this job every day. As long as the 5th floor continues to work in a vacuum, and keep telling each other how great they are, you can expect more 100 day vacations to SW Border states. Just one mans opinion.

[virginia]

Any rumors on the next go around for Op Gunrunner or is this idea over with?

[X-Men]

It's no wonder that ICE is taking over the firearm business of ATF. First, they have a Secretary with a set bigger than any ATF Senior manager. Hoover, Chait and Newell are all about self promotion and self gain. Melson forgot what it was to have a set. Any self respecting person with a task as great as protecting the people of this country would have realized long ago that his management team lacks the integrity to carry a badge and call themselves law enforcement officers or executives.

The SW Border initiative has always been a joke. New Mexico, Texas, Arizona and Los Angeles have never committed to the idea of stopping the flow of firearms into Mexico. Monies allocated to this mission have misspent and agents in these divisions have been instructed to report any incident/investigation, no matter how loosely related to Gun Runner. It seems that ATF management (SACS, ASAC,DAD,AD and the DD) would rather lie to congress, cook the books, alter the numbers instead of DOING THE JOB.

Not surprisingly the scapegoating has started. As many of us have talked about and shared here on CUATF, this agency and our leadership does not posses the ability to take responsibility for ANY of their actions. NEWS flash DD Melson; the criticisms in the OIG gunrunner report are NOT attributable to the field. We have NOT been included in the formation of any gunrunner strategies. You and yours created this mess. Did you ever wonder why you are kept in the dark and have had minimal DIRECT contact with the ATF employees executing our SW Border strategy? Have you asked yourself why Billy,Chait,Newell,Torres and Webb have told you how wonderful we are doing when that couldn't be further from the truth. Ronald Reagan ALWAYS double checked info his advisers gave him because he KNEW the self serving nature of a Bureacracy. Wonder why meetings with the Mexico Attache were cancelled by Billy and Chait? Is it because what he would tell you would totally contradict what your Executive staff is telling you? Haven't we learned that scapegoating doesn't do anything but create problems in the Bureau? When is just ONE senior manager going to say "the buck stops here", I am responsible, and quit making excuses and spinning things and playing the blame game? We (the agents,inspectors and clerical staff) are about the mission. Your bosses are about media headlines, management bonuses, promotions and retirement connections. 2 Simple questions to ask yourself Mr. Melson, #1 how many of your SACs or SES' have walked into your office and said, "that's my bad boss, I totally screwed the pooch on that one"? #2 If the answer is none, the why are they still in place? Stop blaming hard working agents who have poor leadership and start fixing the problems. I know Ms. Loos and Bacon regularly advise you the agents are always wrong, but I would submit to you, where theirs smoke there's fire.
Final thought; could the money used to send a group to Dublin, Ireland been used to brainstorm, bring in some agents for a round table and tighten up gunrunner at the enforcement level? Is Dublin, a gunrunner priority? PS I thought we were broke and making cuts.

[Doc Holiday]

Not surprisingly the scapegoating has started. As many of us have talked about and shared here on CUATF, this agency and our leadership does not posses the ability to take responsibility for ANY of their actions. NEWS flash DD Melson; the criticisms in the OIG gunrunner report are NOT attributable to the field. We have NOT been included in the formation of any gunrunner strategies. You and yours created this mess. Did you ever wonder why you are kept in the dark and have had minimal DIRECT contact with the ATF employees executing our SW Border strategy? Have you asked yourself why Billy,Chait,Newell,Torres and Webb have told you how wonderful we are doing when that couldn't be further from the truth. Ronald Reagan ALWAYS double checked info his advisers gave him because he KNEW the self serving nature of a Bureacracy. Wonder why meetings with the Mexico Attache were cancelled by Billy and Chait? Is it because what he would tell you would totally contradict what your Executive staff is telling you? Haven't we learned that scapegoating doesn't do anything but create problems in the Bureau? When is just ONE senior manager going to say "the buck stops here", I am responsible, and quit making excuses and spinning things and playing the blame game? We (the agents,inspectors and clerical staff) are about the mission. Your bosses are about media headlines, management bonuses, promotions and retirement connections. 2 Simple questions to ask yourself Mr. Melson, #1 how many of your SACs or SES' have walked into your office and said, "that's my bad boss, I totally screwed the pooch on that one"? #2 If the answer is none, the why are they still in place? Stop blaming hard working agents who have poor leadership and start fixing the problems. I know Ms. Loos and Bacon regularly advise you the agents are always wrong, but I would submit to you, where theirs smoke there's fire. Final thought; could the money used to send a group to Dublin, Ireland been used to brainstorm, bring in some agents for a round table and tighten up gunrunner at the enforcement level? Is Dublin, a gunrunner priority? PS I thought we were broke and making cuts.

[Doc Holiday]

You my friend and every ATF Agent like you is why we are here and why CLEANUPATF exists. Keep up the good work.