150 replies to this topic

[atfsa]

Microscope - you know that once someone starts a rumor, then the rumor spreads, especially when so many people want the rumor to be true. There are definitely not many people "coming forward" releasing the Operation Castaway gunwalking allegations. There are many people who heard the rumors (likely started by one or two people with misinformation), and these people are releasing secondhand, thirdhand, fourthhand, etc. gunwalking allegations without any verification. I can assure you that no one intimately involved in Operation Castaway has "come forward" with the gunwalking allegations that have been posted here and elsewhere because all of those people know definitively that it is not true in the Operation Castaway investigation. I can also assure you that no records have been shredded or that there is anything to hide at all. It is a false story that has appeal solely because of Fast and Furious fallout and as a result of personal agendas. I cannot speak for why ATF releases information or why ATF doesn't release information. I cannot speak for anyone in management, but I certainly can speak as a street agent who has been intimately involved with this investigation, is offended by the allegations, and is trying to assure my street level peers that the allegations of gunwalking in Operation Castaway are false. I would think it would be a breath of fresh air to learn (or at least hear) firsthand that these allegations are false, but I get the feeling that some people here actually want the allegations to be true, which is disappointing. You are right, with time the information will come out, and you'll see then that I am speaking the truth.

[Sil D'Good]

Phoenix...Tampa...Houston

Let's roll the dice and see what city comes up next.

The only thing this solidifies is that these weren't FO operations. This is an administration agenda. As the snowball gains momentum, more shit is gonna be slung off. Now would be a good time to buy stock in Charmin.

Vince - I can assure you personally that I am absolutely right regarding Operation Castaway. I just hope that people in this agency will stop criticizing an investigation of which ATF can and should be proud, especially in light of the recent embarassment surrounding Fast and Furious. Also, although some people may be trying to avenge certain management personnel, this is truly not the case to use (this is a case that ATF should be boasting about and using to demonstrate how this agency normally conducts ATF business). It certainly isn't fair to the RAC, the case agents, the involved IOIs, the Division office, and other numerous participating personnel who worked tirelessly for months on end to perfect an outstanding investigation. I am confident that I know who you heard your information from, and I agree they are honest and forthright agents. I have very high regards for those guys (as they do for me), and I routinely work jointly with them. Yes, they are indeed referring to Operation Castaway; however, I can assure you that none of them actually participated in the investigation or were directly knowledgeable of the investigative techniques utilized (they must have obtained incorrect information indirectly). I invite you and/or them to contact me directly to discuss further offline.

I want you to know that I have the highest regard for true undercover agents, such as yourself, Jay, and the rest of the bunch - you guys certainly are an impressive and unique breed who have always contributed greatly to the success of this agency. I wish you the best now and after your reinstatement.

[CI***]

Trust nothing. The ATF is full of criminals right now. The bad agents far outnumber the good ones. The rest are just lazy and sitting around on their asses waiting for informants to do all their work. This Castaway thing is full of holes. This country wants to start seeing bosses and agents being arrested. Period.

[atfsa]

Vince - I can assure you personally that I am absolutely right regarding Operation Castaway. I just hope that people in this agency will stop criticizing an investigation of which ATF can and should be proud, especially in light of the recent embarassment surrounding Fast and Furious. Also, although some people may be trying to avenge certain management personnel, this is truly not the case to use (this is a case that ATF should be boasting about and using to demonstrate how this agency normally conducts ATF business). It certainly isn't fair to the RAC, the case agents, the involved IOIs, the Division office, and other numerous participating personnel who worked tirelessly for months on end to perfect an outstanding investigation. I am confident that I know who you heard your information from, and I agree they are honest and forthright agents. I have very high regards for those guys (as they do for me), and I routinely work jointly with them. Yes, they are indeed referring to Operation Castaway; however, I can assure you that none of them actually participated in the investigation or were directly knowledgeable of the investigative techniques utilized (they must have obtained incorrect information indirectly). I invite you and/or them to contact me directly to discuss further offline.

I want you to know that I have the highest regard for true undercover agents, such as yourself, Jay, and the rest of the bunch - you guys certainly are an impressive and unique breed who have always contributed greatly to the success of this agency. I wish you the best now and after your reinstatement.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

If its false, then you DID just set the record straight. I truly hope you are right, because we as an Agency cannot stand ONE MORE failure. I will say that I too have heard very troubling information from people I trust and know to be extremely honest and forthright Agents regarding SOME case under VOBs oversight.

I am a long-term ATF street agent who likely has worked with, knows, and/or respects most agents on this site. I feel the need to post here for the first time to set the record straight regarding Tampa's Operation Castaway. I will absolutely guarantee that I am more intimately knowledgeable with Operation Castaway than anyone else here on this website, and I will guarantee that what is being reported about this investigation / operation is false. First, I will start by stating that the Sipsey Street Irregulars blogs, and all of the other rumor-mills that copied their original, unsubstantiated, false story of Operation Castaway, are incorrect and irresponsible to publish those unverified untruths. It disturbs me greatly that Sipsey received their information from a "credible" ATF source. Well, perhaps this source may have provided credible information in the past, but the new information provided by this source about Operation Castaway is not firsthand information and has not been verified in any manner by the source, and the source cannot dispute that. Otherwise, the "credible" source would not have provided such false information (so I hope).

Operation Castaway was an extremely successful, long-term firearms trafficking investigation and prosecution in the Middle District of Florida (Google it). During the course of the investigation, numerous ATF personnel, as well as personnel from several different agencies, employed a variety of innovative techniques to identify targets, investigate violators, develop probable cause, and seize numerous firearms and currency, as well as search, arrest, and prosecute numerous intrastate, interstate, and international firearms traffickers, who had (prior to the commencement of the investigation) and attempted to continue (during the course of the investigation) to illegally divert numerous firearms from the Middle District of Florida to Honduras, Colombia, Venezuela, and Puerto Rico. During the course of the investigation, numerous investigative techniques were discussed, agreed upon, and ultimately implemented, all of which I will guarantee did not involve allowing guns to walk to Honduras or elsewhere. In contrary, the investigative and prosecution team made every effort possible to prevent any firearms from “walking”, and numerous firearms were seized under multiple pretextual and/ or ruse law enforcement activities. Everyone involved in the investigation and prosecution, as well as anyone who has heard the facts of the investigation, agrees that Operation Castaway was one of the most significant and leading ATF firearms trafficking investigations and should set the standard for future ATF firearms investigations.

I hope that the good people of this site (including the above mentioned “credible” source) spread this correct information, or at least make the effort to learn the truth. ATF does not need anyone falsely accusing us of wrongdoing (especially one of our own), and we certainly don’t need to decimate an outstanding ATF investigation and prosecution – we should proudly stand behind cases like Operation Castaway and highly promote the successes of this agency, not just promote mistakes or create false allegations about investigations because we believe it may promote an agenda. That is not fair to this agency and not fair to the great agents that make great cases everyday (don’t forget the brotherhood). Since ATF is comprised of the best investigators on Earth, I am confident that if any ATF agent on this website wants to discuss this case with me any further, then they should have no difficulties getting in touch with me. I would be more than happy to discuss this investigation with anyone in ATF who does not have ulterior motives.

[atfsa]

I am a long-term ATF street agent who likely has worked with, knows, and/or respects most agents on this site. I feel the need to post here for the first time to set the record straight regarding Tampa's Operation Castaway. I will absolutely guarantee that I am more intimately knowledgeable with Operation Castaway than anyone else here on this website, and I will guarantee that what is being reported about this investigation / operation is false. First, I will start by stating that the Sipsey Street Irregulars blogs, and all of the other rumor-mills that copied their original, unsubstantiated, false story of Operation Castaway, are incorrect and irresponsible to publish those unverified untruths. It disturbs me greatly that Sipsey received their information from a "credible" ATF source. Well, perhaps this source may have provided credible information in the past, but the new information provided by this source about Operation Castaway is not firsthand information and has not been verified in any manner by the source, and the source cannot dispute that. Otherwise, the "credible" source would not have provided such false information (so I hope).

Operation Castaway was an extremely successful, long-term firearms trafficking investigation and prosecution in the Middle District of Florida (Google it). During the course of the investigation, numerous ATF personnel, as well as personnel from several different agencies, employed a variety of innovative techniques to identify targets, investigate violators, develop probable cause, and seize numerous firearms and currency, as well as search, arrest, and prosecute numerous intrastate, interstate, and international firearms traffickers, who had (prior to the commencement of the investigation) and attempted to continue (during the course of the investigation) to illegally divert numerous firearms from the Middle District of Florida to Honduras, Colombia, Venezuela, and Puerto Rico. During the course of the investigation, numerous investigative techniques were discussed, agreed upon, and ultimately implemented, all of which I will guarantee did not involve allowing guns to walk to Honduras or elsewhere. In contrary, the investigative and prosecution team made every effort possible to prevent any firearms from “walking”, and numerous firearms were seized under multiple pretextual and/ or ruse law enforcement activities. Everyone involved in the investigation and prosecution, as well as anyone who has heard the facts of the investigation, agrees that Operation Castaway was one of the most significant and leading ATF firearms trafficking investigations and should set the standard for future ATF firearms investigations.

I hope that the good people of this site (including the above mentioned “credible” source) spread this correct information, or at least make the effort to learn the truth. ATF does not need anyone falsely accusing us of wrongdoing (especially one of our own), and we certainly don’t need to decimate an outstanding ATF investigation and prosecution – we should proudly stand behind cases like Operation Castaway and highly promote the successes of this agency, not just promote mistakes or create false allegations about investigations because we believe it may promote an agenda. That is not fair to this agency and not fair to the great agents that make great cases everyday (don’t forget the brotherhood). Since ATF is comprised of the best investigators on Earth, I am confident that if any ATF agent on this website wants to discuss this case with me any further, then they should have no difficulties getting in touch with me. I would be more than happy to discuss this investigation with anyone in ATF who does not have ulterior motives.

[Zorro]

Video from Special Report Friday 07/08/11.... mention of 1000 guns for MS-13 in Hondo:

http://video.foxnews...st-and-furious/

[Ozark Noodler]

This might explain why a portion of a conversation I walked into a few weeks ago (ok, managers if you don't want us to hear you, don't talk business in a lunch room. Someone might actually want to get their lunch) An ASAC was talking to a Group Sup, saying that the testimony of the 3 Agents in front of Congress was bad, very damaging, but at least Texas and another Division (didn't hear name) weren't dragged into it. It was good that no one else had been questioned, because it could actually be worse. The GS wanted to know if Fast and Furious was beyond Phoenix, but the ASAC changed topics. I was thinking no other divisions were involved, but even after all these years I'm prone to be naive.

[Ozark Noodler]

As long as she wasn't driving. Apparently after a few drinks, she has proven she can't keep the GOV in the road. Not in DC, Not in Florida, Not in Arizona. But never let it be said that a couple DUIs stopped the rise and fall of SES.

[Retired and loving it]

Gee, and for all of these many years, I thought that destruction of official records was unlawful. Silly me!

[avatar]

The below addresses the original poster's question and is copied from http://sipseystreeti...s.blogspot.com/

Also, the author, Mike Vanderboegh, was interviewed by Bret Baier of Fox News today, and the interview will be broadcast at 6 p.m. EST this evening (see http://www.foxnews.c...port/index.html).


An Open Letter to Kenneth Melson regarding the Tampa-Honduras gunwalking cover-up. "The shredders are buzzing."

Time to prove you're the director of ATF, Ken.


Thursday night, 7 July 2011

Kenneth Melson
Acting Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
99 New York Avenue, NE
Washington, DC 20226

Dear Ken,

Since you are, despite the most sincere wishes of others in the Department of Justice bureaucracy, still the director of your troubled agency, I thought I would give you the chance to prove it.

As you are no doubt aware, since ATF and DOJ both diligently monitor my blog, Sipsey Street Irregulars -- and also because I send copies of all my ATF posts by email to members of the ATF hierarchy including James P. "Little Jimmy" Vann (James.vann@atf.gov), Stephen Rubenstein (Stephen.R.Rubenstein@usdoj.gov), Teresa Ficaretta (Teresa.G.Ficaretta@usdoj.gov), Billy Hoover (William.J.Hoover@usdoj.gov), and Arthur Herbert (Arthur.W.Herbert@usdoj.gov) -- in the past 24 hours David Codrea and I have broken two stories regarding alleged "gunwalking" on the part of Special Agent in Charge of ATF's Tampa Field Division Virginia O'Brien. It is alleged by our sources that Ms. O'Brien, as we wrote in our first story last night, "ran a gun-running investigation that was walking guns to Honduras using the techniques and tactics identical to Fast and Furious."

Here is a snippet of that story:

"This is confirmed as accurate," the correspondence continued. "There are emails in existence where O’Brien has advised those involved that Tampa does not have to report their walked guns because Tampa FD is not a part of Southwest Border or Project Gunrunner."

"From a first person source she is shitting herself trying to cover it up," the report stated.

No one from ATF is available at this late hour to approach for comment. This information has also reportedly been disclosed to Chairman Darrell Issa of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and Ranking Senate Judiciary Committee Member Charles Grassley for follow-up and investigation.

Tonight we ran a follow-up, and one of our sources reported:

O'Brien is in full meltdown. She ordered supervisors from around the Division to report immediately to division offices and to plan on working through the entire weekend on the coverup.

Her partner in the bungle was ASAC Scott McCampbell. At one point the case was ready to be wrapped up with arrests and remain relatively efficient but O'Brien and McCampbell decided on their own to keep it going to "get more" against the advise of thier field employees and the walked guns numbers got out of control.

OB is terrified that her intentional concealing of her walked guns is going to do her in since she disregarded orders to report to DOJ and Congress.

Nearly the same culprits above her are on the hook for this. Chait knew about it so did Hoover and Melson. The new player is DAD East Julie Torres. She took O'Brien's old DAD job when OB went to Tampa and has given OB carte blanche to do whatever she wants with little oversight.

Reportedly the shredders are buzzing.

If so, this cover-up is going on right under your nose, and, if you indeed ARE still the Acting Director of ATF, you have the responsibility to stop it immediately.

By news reports of your conversations with Senator Grassley's and Congressman Issa's staffers, you and your agency have been played like saps by other agencies, the DOJ and, likely the NSC and White House in the Gunwalker Scandal. You have been reported to have been sick to your stomach at the revelations, and claimed for your agency and yourself some measure of plausible deniability and attenuation of culpability for the tragic and bloody outcome.

Perhaps. But if you let this cover-up take place in the Tampa Field Division after having been apprised of it, what then will be your excuse?

If our sources are right, more violations of federal law are happening in your agency on your watch. You ARE the director, right?

Better hurry up, Ken.

"The shredders are buzzing."

Sincerely,

Mike Vanderboegh
PO Box 926
Pinson, AL 35126
http://sipseystreeti...rs.blogspot.com

cc: Offices of Senator Charles Grassley and Congressman Darrell Issa.

[Zorro]

Something to bear in mind: Government is not generally a place of innovation. While I don't assume anything, don't be surprised if it turns out this same "technique" is utilized in multiple places. We are well versed in groupthink and it's rare when when anyone calls "time out".

[MidwestCR]

The Honduras trafficking is a major surprise, but there's still apparently significant activity from Texas that also hasn't come to light. And rumors from other places around the country, so don't be surprised to see at least a couple more. I was hoping that more whistleblowers would come forward from these other operations, but apparently we'll have to wait for Congress to dig it out.

Going to be some major decisions ahead in regards to field agents who didn't report this activity. We know management needs to be cleaned up.

[Mister Ed]

Fast & Furious....now in Tampa....oh my.....what is ATF coming to????



http://freerepublic....11/posts?page=1

Breaking News: Source claims ATF's Tampa SAC walked guns to Honduras
Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 6 July, 2011 | David Codrea

Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 7:52:14 AM by marktwain

Part of 'Operation Castaway'?

Exclusive Special Report by Mike Vanderboegh and David Codrea

Virginia O’Brien, Special Agent in Charge at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Tampa Field Division, ran a gun-running investigation that was walking guns to Honduras using the techniques and tactics identical to Fast and Furious, it was reported to these correspondents this evening via private correspondence from a proven credible source.

On 21 September, 2010, A. Brian Albritton, United States Attorney for the Middle District of Florida issued a press release on Operation Castaway:

Part of 'Operation Castaway'?

Exclusive Special Report by Mike Vanderboegh and David Codrea

Virginia O’Brien, Special Agent in Charge at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Tampa Field Division, ran a gun-running investigation that was walking guns to Honduras using the techniques and tactics identical to Fast and Furious, it was reported to these correspondents this evening via private correspondence from a proven credible source.

On 21 September, 2010, A. Brian Albritton, United States Attorney for the Middle District of Florida issued a press release on Operation Castaway:

United States Attorney A. Brian Albritton, Virginia O’Brien, Special Agent in Charge of central and northern Florida Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) operations, and Susan McCormick, Special Agent in Charge, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Homeland Security Investigations, Tampa Field Office announce the initial results of Operation Castaway, an intensive and wideranging Organized Crime and Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF) firearms trafficking investigation conducted by ATF, ICE, the Orange County Sheriff’s Office, the Osceola County Sheriff’s Office, the Brevard County Sheriff’s Office, and the Miami-Dade Police Department. ATF describes Operation Castaway as the most significant firearms trafficking investigation in Central Florida history

[concerned]

Now more are showing up?

http://sipseystreeti...s.blogspot.com/

see news clip

[concerned]

Not another one!!!!!

Anyone care to comment?

Are they going to investigate this??



http://sipseystreeti...lk-guns-to.html

[Ike]

old school:

This will confirm my earlier statement: Mexican officials have access through eTrace 4.0 (the Spanish bilingual version) to American first purchaser personal information - no matter how old the record nor how innocent the first buyer.

Firearm Information: Manufacturer, Model, Caliber, Serial Number, Type (Pistol, Rifle, etc.), Country of manufacture & Importer.

Recovery Information: Recovery date, "Time to Crime" (age of firearm), Recovery address.

Purchaser Information: (First purchaser only). Purchase Date, Full Name and Full Address, Date of Birth, Place of Birth, Race, Sex, Social Security Number (supposedly redacted for foreign traces), Drivers License Number, Height, Weight.

Dealer Information: FFL Number, Name and Full Address, Phone Number, Ship Date (Date of Receipt).

Summary of Results: Narrative by ATF of the trace results.

Additional Dealer Information: Full transfer path from Importer or Manufacturer, to Distributor, to Dealer. Includes Full Name and Full Address of each, Point of Contact Name, Dealer Notes, Associated Traces (All other traces connected to dealer), Phone Number, Fax Number, FFL Number, Invoice Number (if any), Date of Last ATF Inspection

Additional Individual Information: All information from 'Purchaser' above, plus: Criminal History, AKA (Alias) Name, AKA Date of Birth, Associated Traces (All other traces or multiple gun purchases for that last name and Date of Birth)

Recovery Location: All the information in 'Recovery' above, plus Type of Recovery (On Person, etc), detail Vehicle Information (including license number), all other traces for that Street Name, City and State.

Copies of ATF "Firearms Trace Summary" Reports are located here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETrace Much additional information on eTrace is also presented. You may find it of considerable interest.

ATF provides the identical data to Mexican authorities (and all other foreign traces) that are provided to U.S. law enforcement traces with the exception of Social Security Number.

[Zorro]

A deeper look should be taken at other stats that were used to get budget money, project funds, and where it actually went. Am I the only one that remembers annually around June/July being ordered to falsify our time and activity sheets to document arson/explosives activity instead of using firearms codes for what we were really working on?

You earned a cookie today, Shadow. I have seen first hand how tracing data is used for nefarious purposes; throw out raw data, no context or research to back it up to further an agenda, be it anti-gun, give us more money, or whatever.

I well remember the "you people didn't work all the explosive hours our pinheads predicted you would, now fix it". I didn't falsify anything... if it makes someone in DC uncomfortable, so be it. Maybe said personnel should refrain from making work hours predictions a year in advance. It's not mission essential and the taxpayers are getting hosed paying someone big bucks to do it.

To those of you outside the agency: tracing is a legitimate investigative tool. Like every other power government grants itself, it is dependent on ethical stewards to not abuse it, to include turning it into a cash cow for more money, more people, more managament, more power. If you don't watch the watchers, hold onto your wallets (if you can).

[Excalibur-2112]

Hello everyone.
I voted non compliant entirely.
Ive been keeping up on this since the story first broke in the mainstream media...well...one network, that is.
It has been one dodge after another as far as Ive been watching.
Thank God for the good men here who came out with the truth and let us all know what has been going on.

Ive been watching these forums on and off for months and honestly Im happy to see that Issa is finally cornering some of the guys who made this horrible tragedy possible.

I realize some of you ATF agents who came forth may not hear it much, but understand that EVERY law abiding gun owner in this country who knows the details coming out from all this appreciates all of you.
Instead of having to look at ATF agents as 'them' who might seem to be so disconnected from our reality we can look at you all as the same red blooded Americans that we strive to be.
Your integrity and willingness to put your own careers on the line to bring the truth to the light of day should get each of you a medal of honor.

When this is all over and its ok for you guys to be more public I think it would be really nice if we could somehow show our appreciation for your efforts and the risks youve taken.
You guys are the best of the best of Americans and you should be honored as true heroes of justice and the American way as our founding fathers intended our great country to be.

God bless you all.

[The Shadow]

To the non-agents: I have been with ATF for over 20 years and conducted hundreds of investigations. "Seizing" a firearm is a real pain in the ass due to the paperwork involved. I always tried to enter the firearms I took into custody as Seized for evidence, not seized for forfeiture. We used to call this "retained property", which means it was returned to the rightful owner after the case was disposed of in court. Of course some firearms must be seized if the are unregistered NFA weapons like sawed-offs or have obliterated serial numbers, or the perp used it as part of the crime or the perp owned it outright. I have gone out of my way many times to help citizens who were burglary and theft victims obtain their gun serial numbers from a gun dealer so they could list their stolen gun in a police report. I have also recovered and returned many stolen firearms for citizens due to gun tracing. Many times these victims told me that they made a police report years ago when the theft occurred but they had not written their serial number down, then when I recovered it and traced it, I contacted them then later returned the property to them. Tracing has its legitimate uses and that is all I have ever used it for. I have no knowledge of any hidden purpose for tracing firearms, I hope there is not one, being a gun owner myself. If tracing stats are being skewed or misused for a political purpose or any purpose that is wrong and should be stopped.

Firearms tracing absolutely has a legitimate and critical purpose in criminal investigations. I personally know of several investigations where the trace lead to arrest/conviction in homicide cases and where it turned a double homicide investigation into a homicide-suicide closed case in a few hours. But who knows what the information is used for After The Fact by some whiz kid in HQ? Who knows why HQ needed our DNA samples added to ATF's data base? I am glad that Senator Grassley has looked at some of the fuzzy math that ATF has been thowing at Congress and the American people for years. A deeper look should be taken at other stats that were used to get budget money, project funds, and where it actually went. Am I the only one that remembers annually around June/July being ordered to falsify our time and activity sheets to document arson/explosives activity instead of using firearms codes for what we were really working on?

[Ike]

To Old-School: In way too many cases, ATF refuses to return seized firearms even when the person is found innocent in court. I know there are good agents like yourself who respect private property, but there are many others... Now, if the guy is really a bad apple, then there might be some justification, but forcing a citizen to sue ATF to get his gun collection back, is just plain wrong. I agree with you that tracing has legitimate uses, but even Senator Grassley has weighed in (in addition to DOJ OIG) on this issue, exposing ATF's abuse of the system for political reasons, and their misuse of fraudulent statistics from eTrace. Read the Senator's letter! Read the rest of the posts in this topic. eTrace is being abused by reporting gun traces that have nothing to do with crimes, as 'crime gun' traces. ATF freely reports (as a suspect) completely innocent (first purchaser) American gun buyer Names & addresses, and enough personal data for identity theft, to corrupt Mexican cops.... Thousands of them. Mexico has no jurisdiction over American Citizens in the United States. Why the hell would ATF report a first purchaser sale from 15 years ago to Mexican cops with no jurisdiction? It makes no sense. I could go on....., but I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Zorro]

Near priceless - none other than one Charles Grassley has now questioned some of the fuzzy math: http://grassley.sena...geID_1502=35489 See wet hornet, point squirt gun....

[Ike]

ATF has perverted the definition of a “bona fide” criminal investigation as follows:

“ATF’s longstanding position is that investigating the origin of the firearm to develop leads to determine if it has been used in a crime constitutes a bona fide law enforcement investigation.” Here’s the citation: http://www.atf.gov/p...f-p-3312-11.pdf

If ATF considered the home invasion victim as suspect for some reason, why announce the traces to the press?

Lest we forget:

ATF bought (or tried to buy) Leatherman pocket tools:
Leatherman Micra Color: Blue - Part number 64340101K Engraved with: "ATF-Asset Forfeiture" AND "Always Think Forfeiture". Congress brought this purchase to a halt, but it clearly shows ATF agency thinking. ATF has a long history of failing to return seized firearms even after the perp (victim) has been found innocent in a court of law.

In fiscal year (FY) 2005, ATF seized 199,284 property items at an estimated value of $24,307,331. As of June 30, 2006, an additional 22,030 items were seized at an estimated value of $17,345,448. http://www.justice.g...a0637/intro.htm

Make no mistake; Asset Forfeiture at ATF is Big Business.....

[MidwestCR]

Well, I can't see that there's technically any law against tracing any random firearm that falls into ATF's hands. Though there's definitely no law saying they have to or even should, and I think it's definitely against the spirit of every law that Congress has passed that they do so. It also kind of indicates that they are overstaffed if they can investigate every single firearm, and that's not an impression I'd want to make right now. But, in ATF's defense, there may have been SOME indication we don't know about during the investigation of the original theft that the victims weren't the most upright citizens or that some part of their story didn't click. But as a collector myself, any action which appears to be simply to investigate every gun owner they encounter makes me a tad angry. I also hope the ATF returns the firearms immediately, since there is NO reason to continue possession while running traces. They simply need make, model, serial number - right?. Keeping the firearms makes one think that there's some ATF personnel either making use of those firearms, or wanting to - both allegations and violations of which ATF has had in the past and doesn't need to be reinforced or continued.

[Ike]

If you have a citation available for the Atlanta, please let me know. The citations for the Oklahoma theft are: http://www.tulsaworl...10_CUTLIN382358 http://www.batesline...o-prue-hom.html Any gun traced by ATF is, by definition, a "crime gun". Tracing any gun is authorized because it "might" have been used in a crime. This is direct from ATF publications.

[Historic Arms LLC]

Same kind of situation happened in metro Atlanta and the US attorney seized them and attempted forfeiture of the stolen, now recovered guns. [after of course telling the owner/victim that they were needed as evidence at trial. The perp plead guilty and they explained the "new policy" is to seize and forfeit all "crime guns"] I only know this because the victim has the same attorney as my company.... In this case it seems this "new policy" comes from DOJ/Holder/Obama not the ATF. Like you said Ike they are now labeled "crime guns" because they were stolen and recovered. Mark my words the guns in the event in OK will be seized and forfeited. By the way ATF has a new rules change posted in the federal register on seizure forfeiture policy about thirty days left for comments.

[Ike]

ATF at work:

On May 31, 2011 at approximately 10:00 AM, two suspects committed a home invasion in Prue (OK). The victims were approached by two white males dressed as linesmen. The two suspects produced firearms and ordered the two victims into the residence. While in the residence both victims were tied up and items were taken from the house. The suspects then loaded a large number of firearms into victim's white 1999 GMC safari van bearing Oklahoma 612-FLT. The men took more than 100 guns from the residence, said Tulsa police Officer Leland Ashley. When asked why so many firearms were in the house, police responded that it is not illegal to have the weapons.

After a shootout, some of the firearms were recovered by Tulsa police.

Agents with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives have requested traces on 86 guns seized after two men allegedly stole the guns in a home invasion leading to a rampage through Tulsa that left two dead, an official said.

Tracing the weapons could take three weeks or as long as a couple months because officials did not request the trace to be an "urgent" return, ATF Agent Jeff Cochran said. "I didn't feel that was necessary".

Background reports on the guns will help investigators determine whether the guns owned by the victim were legally or illegally obtained.

Let's see if I have this right.... Hmmmm. ATF is investigating the VICTIM, rather than the criminals? Way to go, guys.... Our tax dollars at work.

And, of course, all these gun traces are now called "crime guns"......

[Ike]

ATF eTrace System
Analysis & Critique

Part I - eTrace Individual and Dealer Consequences

"We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to bad guys," said the cooperating FFL.....

ATF, the DOJ, and Supervisor Voth mislead the cooperating FFL dealers. Every "Gunwalker" gun traced (through eTrace) from Mexico, or anywhere else, is a "crime gun" sale which will be permanently recorded by the eTrace system against the first selling dealer, and tabulated at the National Tracing Center. With enough 'crime gun' sale traces, the FFL will be targeted for extra scrutiny during ATF annual inspections. This practice is documented in ATF publications and is an automated process through eTrace at the National Tracing Center. It's highly unlikely that the automated system could or would be suspended by ATF Supervisor Voth.!

FFLs who cooperated with ATF during the "Gunwalker" sales to Mexican traffickers should be made aware that their sales to 'straw purchasers' and Mexican traffickers encouraged by Supervisor Voth and others will count against them in the eTrace system - for many years to come. This could be a high price to pay for cooperating......

Background

The Congressional Research Service has repeatedly stated that the ATF tracing system (including eTrace) is an operational system designed to help law enforcement agencies identify the ownership path of individual firearms.

“Distribution of eTrace to the law enforcement community began in January 2005. To date, more than 2,800 U.S. law enforcement agencies and 29 foreign countries actively use eTrace in their investigative work. ATF processed more than 340,000 trace requests in fiscal year 2009.” (ATF Fact Sheet, March, 2010) By 2011.ATF reported over 35 foreign countries and foreign police forces participating in the eTrace program as well as thousands of police agencies throughout the United States. ATF has accepted trace requests from over 60 foreign governments. (How many have terrorist connections?). In December 2009, ATF released eTrace 4.0, a bilingual version with full access in English or Spanish, and deployed it to Mexico, Guatemala and Costa Rica. All three countries have wide-spread police corruption issues. ATF has declared a specific goal to provide eTrace to all 31 states within Mexico. Colombia and Mexico were provided with their own in-country tracing centers with full access to ATF firearm registration records. In Colombia, a joint ATF-CNP Center for Anti-Explosives Information and Firearms Tracing (CIARA) opened on December 6, 2006. In Mexico, The National Center for Information, Analysis and Planning in order to Fight Crime (CENAPI) was established in 2003. ATF states these are models for planned future tracing centers throughout Central and South America and the Caribbean Basin.

"Firearms tracing through eTrace is the systematic tracking of a ‘recovered’ firearm from its manufacturer or importer and subsequent introduction into the distribution chain (wholesaler/retailer) to the first retail purchase.” (ATF Fact Sheet, March, 2010, emphasis added) eTrace reports contains no disclaimer that the system identifies only the first purchaser, who may have no connection to the person found in possession of the firearm, nor any disclaimer of presumed innocence of the purchaser nor the selling dealer.

According to the Congressional Research Service, information from firearms searches is limited and may be biased by several factors:

• "traced firearms are generally recovered by law enforcement, and they may not be representative of firearms possessed and used by criminals;
• there remains significant variation over time and from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as to "when, why, and how" a firearm is recovered and selected to be traced; and
• a substantial percentage of recovered firearms cannot be successfully traced for several reasons."

Individual trace results can be printed directly from eTrace and specifically identifies the firearm’s trace pedigree to the first purchaser. The Firearms Trace Summary report shows the full firearm description, requesting agency information, with possessor and recovery location (if provided by the requester). If the firearm is traced successfully, first purchaser Information is provided, including purchase Date, Full Name and Full Address, Date of Birth, Place of Birth, Race, Sex, Social Security Number (may be redacted for certain foreign traces), Drivers License Number, Height, Weight. [Note: This is the essential information for identity theft - freely provided to possibly corrupt foreign police]

The Individual Information from a Firearms Trace Summary report provides "Associated Traces" which lists the number of known guns purchased by all individuals with the same last name and date of birth. None of these 'associated traces' may have any connection with the person listed. How many persons named Smith or Jones, or Garcia, or Martinez were born on the same date? I suspect it might be many. Therefore, this number has little meaning and is absolutely misleading - especially applied to the first purchaser of the firearm who may no longer have any connection with it.

Individual Consequences
The first purchaser may be entirely innocent, and may have sold the gun years ago, as the average age of traced Mexican guns is over 14 years (falsely defined as Time-to-Crime). Nevertheless, although Mexican police have no jurisdiction in the United States, each first purchaser is duly reported (as a Suspect?) to Mexican police (with well-known corruption issues), or any other foreign police.

In April, 2010 the author of “U.S. Firearms Trafficking to Mexico: New Data and Insights Illuminate Key Trends and Challenges” by Goodman and Marizco, interviewed an ATF official in Washington who admitted, “If a trace is successful, Mexican authorities receive information from ATF such as when the firearm was purchased, the name of the person that purchased the firearm, and the total number of firearms the person might have purchased.“ We now know that far more information is provided to Mexican authorities.

ATF admitted (in writing) the identity of the firearms purchaser provided to a foreign law enforcement agency is of particular concern to people, because the purchaser is not necessarily involved in any crime. However, ATF claims it has no record of an American being at risk in a foreign country as a result of innocent involvement in the history of a firearm, but how would ATF know if an American was at risk? According to the U.S. State Department, Americans have become victims of harassment, mistreatment and extortion by Mexican law enforcement and other officials - even without being identified in a trace report. It should also be noted that in Mexico (as in many other countries), anyone accused of a crime is "guilty until proven innocent", and cash bail may be the only option to avoid incarceration.

Dealer Consequences
For those guns with a short "Time to Crime".... Every time a recent AK-47 or AR15 is traced from Mexico, the Mexicans will get a copy of the Tracing Summary - which includes the name, address and phone number of the selling dealer. What a wonderful way for ATF to advertise to corrupt Mexican cops which dealers may be a good source of guns for future trafficking. ATF thoughtfully provides the dealers names, addresses and phone numbers, and helpfully notes how many other 'crime guns' the dealer has sold. Wow! Cartel members no longer need to look in the Yellow Pages - thanks to ATF's wonderful bilingual eTrace system! Let your fingers do the walking! (Gunwalking, that is) Wow! Free advertising!

Now, if you throw 'Operation Gunwalker' into the mix...... Each of those "cooperating FFLs" will have their names, addresses and phone numbers repeatedly reported to (corrupt?) Mexican authorities. (They might want to think twice about that vacation in Mexico....) ...and, for every traced gun recovered in Mexico, ATF will ding the selling FFL with an additional 'crime gun' and "Associated traces" - even when the FFL was cooperating with ATF.

Despite that many (if not most) traces are not directly connected to crime, a 2010 ATF eTrace PowerPoint Presentation to a United Nations Firearms Workshop publicly stated, "Identify FFL’s [dealers] in your Area Who May Cater to Criminals. By utilizing the Top Source Dealer report, you can potentially identify FFL’s who are known as a criminal friendly FFL." As another consequence of cooperating with ATF allowing 'straw purchasers' to buy guns from your gunshop, you may find your shop labeled as a "criminal friendly FFL".

eTrace

Part II - “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics”. (Mark Twain, attributed to Disraeli).
(Figures Don't Lie, But Liars Do Figure - Mark Twain)

The Congressional Research Service has repeatedly warned about the use of statistics from ATF's tracing system. "The ATF tracing system is an operational system designed to help law enforcement agencies identify the ownership path of individual firearms. It was not designed to collect statistics."

- "Firearms selected for tracing do not constitute a random sample and cannot be considered representative of the larger universe of all firearms used by criminals, or of any subset of that universe."

- "A law enforcement officer may initiate a trace request for any reason. No crime need be involved. No screening policy ensures or requires that only guns known or suspected to have been used in crimes are traced." ATF "noted it is not possible to determine if traced firearms are related to criminal activity."

- "Trace requests are not accurate indicators of specified crimes .... traces may be requested for a variety of reasons not necessarily related to criminal incidents. For example, a trace may be conducted on a firearm found at the residence of a suspect though the firearm itself is not associated with a criminal act. Traces may also be requested with respect to abandoned firearms, those found by chance, those seen by officers for sale at gun shows or pawn shops, or those used by suicide victims. . . . It is not possible to identify how frequently firearm traces are requested for reasons other than those associated with violent crimes."

- "ATF does not always know if a firearm being traced has been used in a crime. For instance, sometimes a firearm is traced simply to determine the rightful owner after it is found by a law enforcement agency."

On June 9, 2009 the Department of Homeland Security criticized ATF's tracing system, observing that ATF has numerous problems with data collection and sample populations which render some of ATF's statistics as unreliable.

Yet ATF continues to use eTrace for statistics, relies on it’s unreliable statistics, and reports false statistics to Congress and the press. Everybody remembers the famous 90% figure for U.S. origin guns seized in Mexico as reported by Hoover and Newell (and repeated by President Obama, and Hillary) - which even ATF has now discredited.

Traced Mexican Guns

The ATF Tracing System was not designed to collect statistics. Nevertheless:

1. On February 2008, William Hoover, Assistant Director for Field Operations of ATF testified before Congress that over 90% of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States.

2. In May, 2008, William Newell, Special Agent in Charge of the ATF Phoenix Office reported: "When 90 percent-plus of the firearms recovered from these violent drug cartels are from a U.S. source, we have a responsibility to do everything we can to stem the illegal flow of these firearms to these thugs." [and how is that working for you, Bill?]

3. President Obama, Hillary Clinton, California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, CBS newsman Bob Schieffer and several others foolishly repeated the same 90% figure in public - to the media. [Hint: Never make the Boss look bad. It might affect your career. Maybe it should affect your career?]

4. On April 02, 2009, Fox News published "The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.".

5. On June 19, 2009, The U.S. Government Accountability Office reported to Congress (based on ATF data), "Over 90 percent of the firearms seized in Mexico and traced over the last 3 years have come from the United States."

6. On July 16, 2009, William McMahon, Deputy Assistant Director for Field Operations, ATF, testified before Congress that about 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico that ATF has traced were initially sold in the United States. (Committee on Homeland Security Subcommittee on Border, Maritime, and Global Counterterrorism, U.S. House of Representatives, concerning “Combating Border Violence: The Role of Interagency Coordination in Investigations”).

7. In September 2010, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) Office of the Inspector General (OIG) issued a draft report, followed by the final version in November, 2010, critical of Project Gunrunner. The OIG analysis of ATF data shows, of the guns submitted for tracing, a much lower percentage of guns traced to the United States, ranging from 44 percent in FY 2005, falling to 27 percent in FY 2007 and 31 percent in FY 2009. These percentages significantly differ from those in ATF testimony before Congress (see above).

8. Between September and November 2010, ATF admitted that “the 90% figure cited to Congress could be misleading because it applied only to the small portion of Mexican crime guns that are traced.” During this 2010 review by the OIG, ATF could not provide updated information on the percentage of traced Mexican crime guns that originated in or imported through the United States.

9. In October 2010, ATF announced they would no longer release estimates of how many guns came from the United States because the numbers have become "too politicized". ATF’s Kenneth Melson stated, "It doesn't matter if 20 percent are coming from the U.S. or 80 percent...". [Many people think it does matter...]

10. On December 14, 2010, despite ATF's announcement they would no longer release estimates. Yet, NBC reported "U.S. firearms agents estimate that around 80 percent of the weapons used by Mexican drug traffickers come from the United States...", a percentage previously disavowed by ATF and discredited by the DOJ OIG in November 2010 (see above).

11. On February 10, 2011, Stratfor Global Intelligence published an analysis which concluded "almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States."

12. On April 5, 2011, in a formal letter to a constituent, Senator Tom Udall (D-NM) [who should know better], repeated the same lie, “According to ATF, 90 percent of the weapons seized in Mexico are from sources within the United States.”

The OIG analysis of ATF data concluded that ATF’s attempts to expand gun tracing in Mexico have been unsuccessful. Increasingly, ATF finds that Mexican cartels transport firearms and munitions into Mexico from Guatemala, situated on Mexico’s southern border.

Although the number of trace requests from Mexico has increased since FY 2006, most seized guns in Mexico are not traced. Moreover, most trace requests from Mexico do not succeed in identifying the gun dealer who originally sold the gun, and the rate of successful traces has declined since the start of Project Gunrunner. Most Mexican crime gun trace requests that were successful were untimely and of limited use for generating investigative leads. The average age of traced Mexican guns is 14 years, and over 75 percent of traced Mexican guns were over five years old and the information considered useless for law enforcement purposes. Senior Mexican law enforcement authorities interviewed by U.S. OIG officers do not view gun tracing as an important investigative tool because of limitations in the information tracing typically provides. It is important to note that Mexican law enforcement has no jurisdiction in the United States.

ATF fails to address a significant misleading factor in eTrace statistics of seized Mexican guns; legitimate export sales. These firearms are included in eTrace statistics, which further skews the statistical reports. ATF fails to separately identify:

1. American origin guns legitimately sold to the Mexican military.
2. American origin guns legitimately and commercially exported to the Mexican gun shop in Mexico City.
3. American origin guns legitimately sold to Mexican police - at the Federal, state or local level.
4. American origin guns legitimately sold to Mexican banks, private security firms, or other companies.
5. American origin guns legitimately sold to other Mexican government entities.
6. American origin guns legitimately sold to police, military, security companies or private parties in other countries, which were smuggled into Mexico from those countries.

Further, ATF fails to address:
7. American origin guns exported many years ago. (Average age of traced Mexican guns is over 14 years).
8. Foreign guns with American markings never imported into the United States for any number of reasons.
9. Counterfeit guns made elsewhere with fake American markings. ATF acknowledged this is a problem.
10. Frequently, pictures of seized Mexican guns show many .22 rimfire rabbit rifles and sporting shotguns. Are these included in ATF statistics? ATF doesn't say.

In an April, 2011 study titled "Update on U.S. Firearms Trafficking to Mexico Report", author Colby Goodman reported that ATF now reports tens of thousands of Mexican trace requests are duplicates. In some cases, ATF received information on the same firearm up to five times as Mexican police, a crime lab, the military, and the Attorney General’s office all write down information on the same firearm, and the Attorney General’s office in Mexico City submited trace requests on all of them.

As as result of these duplicate 'successful' traces:
1. The first American purchaser receives up to five separate duplicate trace reports on one gun that he may have innocently bought years ago.
2. The selling dealer will also receive up to five 'criminal' traces on his record.
3. The Mexican authorities submitting the traces will receive multiple trace reports providing the personal information (name, address and personal data) of the first purchaser, and the name and address of the selling dealer.
4. Statistics on "seized Mexican guns" are even more inflated than previously reported.


Critique of ATF Tracing Statistics

ATF has not been honest in reporting statistics from their Tracing System. As a direct result, by Public Law 111–117 (Consolidated Appropriations Act), ATF has been forced to publish a data disclaimer at the beginning of each annual Trace Report. It's important to read every sentence, and carefully consider the disclaimer when reading ATF tracing reports:

(1)

- Firearm traces are designed to assist law enforcement authorities in conducting investigations by tracking the sale and possession of specific firearms.

- Law enforcement agencies may request firearms traces for any reason, and those reasons are not necessarily reported to the federal government.

- Not all firearms used in crime are traced and not all firearms traced are used in crime.

(2)

- Firearms selected for tracing are not chosen for purposes of determining which types, makes or models of firearms are used for illicit purposes.

- The firearms selected do not constitute a random sample and should not be considered representative of the larger universe of all firearms used by criminals, or any subset of that universe.

- Firearms are normally traced to the first retail seller, and sources reported for firearms traced do not necessarily represent the sources or methods by which firearms in general are acquired for use in crime.

Specifically, to illustrate flaws in ATF's Tracing System which skew the data; "Top Categories Reported on Firearm Traces with a [choose state] Recovery". Selected categories which may not have a criminal connection:
1. Possession of Weapon. Legal or illegal? ATF doesn't say.
2. Found Firearm. Found in an estate? Recovered stolen weapon? Found at the side of the road? Found in a rental storage unit? Bank safety deposit box? ATF doesn't say.
3. Weapon Offense. Was this a criminal charge? ATF doesn't say.
4. None Provided. Why include this category? This is meaningless.
5. Carrying Concealed Weapon. Legal or illegal? ATF doesn't say.
6. Health-Safety. How is this related to crime? ATF doesn't say.
7. Firearm Under Investigation. For what? Criminal or not? ATF doesn't say.
8. Selling Weapon. Criminal or not? ATF doesn't say.
9. Family Offense. Criminal or not? ATF doesn't say.
10. Traffic Offense. Criminal or not? ATF doesn't say.
11. Suicide. How do you categorize a suicide? If a dealer sold the gun to the victim, how could the dealer know the intent - possibly years later?
12. Immigration. What does this mean? Criminal or not? ATF doesn't say.
13. Other categories. What?

The number of traces in these categories (non-criminal) frequently exceed criminal traces, and appears to always exceed violent criminal categories. Nevertheless, these categories are included in ATF tracing reports and statistics.

In the ATF Trace Reports annually published by state (no doubt at great taxpayer expense), all seriously reported as if they were important, are the following headings:

1. Total Number of Firearms Recovered and Traced in [state name] by Calendar Year.
This appears to be the number of firearms traced and has nothing to do with 'recovered' firearms.
2. Firearm Types with a [state name] Recovery.
This appears to be nothing more than the number of pistols, rifles, revolvers, etc. traced in the state. Nothing to do with 'recovery'.
3. Top Categories Reported on Firearms Traces with a [state name] Recovery.
Again, nothing to do with a 'recovery, and ATF does not specify whether these categories are innocent or criminal traces.
4. Top 15 Source States for Firearms with a [state name] Recovery.
These appear to be only traces, not recoveries. ATF does not specify if the traces were innocent or criminal.
5. Time-To-Crime for Firearms with a [state name] Recovery.
The trace may have nothing to do with a 'crime'. This report only specifies the time from the first retail sale until the gun came to the attention of a LEA. In the case of New Jersey, 2009, ATF gives the "Time-To-Crime" for only about half of the total guns traced. Of those, 82% were 3 or more years old and the trace data basically useless for law enforcement purposes.
6. Top Recovery Cities for Firearms with a [state name] Recovery.
Larger cities, and cities with police departments which trace more guns show up on this report. It implies that the listed cities have more gun crime, but this is an incorrect correlation. The report simply lists cities with higher numbers of traces - many unrelated to any crime.

Considering all the non-criminal sources of firearm traces, including some state reports of private individual purchases and state firearm registration systems, these headings are nonsense. The closest comparison is "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"


eTrace

Part III. eTrace Data Sources

The Firearm Tracing System provides manual & automated data retrieval from:

1. All previous firearms traces from all sources.
2. Dealer, Importer, and Manufacturer computer, paper or microfilm “Bound Book” Out-of-Business records (including digital files required by ATF Ruling 2008-2).
3. Dealer “Bound Book” records (computer and/or paper) copied or photographed by ATF during annual inspections.
4. ATF Form 4473 from dealers copied or photographed during annual inspections and in Out-of-Business records.
5. Multiple Firearm Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4)
6. Traditional phone calls to the manufacturer, distributor and final selling dealer.
7. Additional data sources, such as some state firearms sales records as required by state law or policy.
8. Dealer “Bound Books” over 20 years old voluntarily sent in to ATF.
9. Includes some antique firearms allowed to be entered in “Bound Books”.
10. Stolen firearms reported to ATF. (Note: Does not include stolen firearms reported to the FBI - NCIC, a separate system).
11. System 2000 automated retrieval system from manufacturers, importers and distributors (100 companies as of 2010).
12. Certain firearms dealers are required by ATF to report specific used firearms transaction to ATF for entry into the Firearms Tracing System. Some dealers are required to report all firearms transactions.
13. For every firearm reported stolen to the NCIC stolen firearms database, New Jersey now automatically submits a trace to ATF (NJ Trace System). ATF is reported as working on a similar program.
14. Some state firearm registration systems are being loaded into the tracing system.
15. In a press release, New Jersey admits tracing (from police records) all of private gun purchases into the ATF Firearms Tracing System through eTrace. By state law, New York and Connecticut also require tracing of all such private purchase firearms.
16. ATF hired private consultants to catalog information on firearms and submit trace requests from police departments to ATF.
17. Should the proposed semi-auto rifle multiple sale reporting be imposed on dealers, then these reports would also be included.

eTrace

Part IV - Tracing Databases

The ATF Firearms Tracing System (FTS) contains firearm registration records from sale transactions and tracing data from millions of traces performed since 1989, along with many other records. The system consists of several databases:

1. Multiple Sale Reports. Over 460,000 (2003) Multiple Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4 - a firearms registration record with specific firearms and owner name and address - increasing by about 140,000 per year). Reported as 4.2 million records in 2010.

2. Suspect Guns. All guns "suspected" of being used for criminal purposes but not recovered by law enforcement. This database includes (ATF's own examples), individuals purchasing large quantities of firearms (including collectors of older firearms rarely used in crime), and dealers with "improper" record keeping. May include guns “observed” by law enforcement in an estate, or at a gun show, or elsewhere. Reported as 34,807 in 2010.

3. Traced Guns. Over 1.2 million (2002) detail results from all traces. ATF reported 343,746 guns were traced in 2009, and a total of 4 million traces since inception (2009). This is a firearms registration record which includes Names and Addresses of the first retail seller and purchaser.

4. Out of Business Records. Data is manually collected from paper Out-of-Business records (or input from computer records) and entered into the trace system by ATF. These are firearms transaction registration records, indexed by serial number, which include name and address, make, model, serial and caliber of the firearm(s), as well as first purchaser personal data from the 4473 form - in digital or image format. Full details of the computerized index are lacking. In March, 2010, ATF reported receiving several hundred million individual firearm transaction records since 1968.

5. Theft Guns. Firearms reported as stolen to ATF. Contained 330,000 records in 2010. Contains only thefts from licensed dealers and interstate carriers (optional). Does not have an interface to the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) theft data base, where the majority of stolen, lost and missing firearms are reported.

eTrace

Part V - eTrace Glossary and Definitions

FIREARM TRACE
“The systematic process of tracking a recovered crime gun’s history from its source (manufacturer/importer) through the chain of distribution (wholesaler/retailer) to the individual who first purchases the firearm.”

A rider on the ATF appropriations language (The “Tiahrt” Amendment) has consistently prohibited ATF from disclosing data on firearm traces, FFL transfer records, multiple handgun sale reports, illegal gun trafficking, and for any purpose other than supporting a “bona fide” criminal investigation. Consequently, although ATF is prohibited from releasing trace date, it advertises in carefully crafted words, that LEAs can share and release this data as they see fit - to circumvent the Tiahrt Amendment.

ATF has perverted the definition of a “bona fide” criminal investigation as follows: “ATF’s longstanding position is that investigating the origin of the firearm to develop leads to determine if it has been used in a crime constitutes a bona fide law enforcement investigation.” Here’s the citation: http://www.atf.gov/p...f-p-3312-11.pdf

In other words, by perverting the definition, investigating (tracing) any gun is justified by ATF because it “might” have been used in a crime (or 'might' be in the future), and thus is a “bona fide” criminal investigation allowed by law? I don't think this was the intent of the legislation.

CRIME GUN
“A crime gun is any firearm that is illegally possessed, used in a crime, or suspected to have been used in a crime. An abandoned firearm may also be categorized as a crime gun if it is suspected it was used in a crime or illegally possessed.”

See the above citation. ATF has perverted the ‘crime gun’ definition and consistantly calls every traced firearm a “crime gun”, no matter how innocent the trace. Remember that ATF is tracing all guns from some state registration systems, other state private purchase records, and many other completely innocent traces. Regardless of ATF’s perverted definition, innocent traces are not “crime guns” and should not be defined or reported as such.

TIME-TO-CRIME
“The period of time between a firearm’s acquisition by an unlicensed person from a retail licensee and law enforcement’s recovery of that firearm during use, or suspected use, in a crime. A short time-to-crime suggests the firearm will be easier to trace. This measure can be an important indicator of illegal firearms trafficking.”

As an extension of ATF’s perverted definition of “Crime Gun”, “Time-to-Crime” is another perverted definition. Given the number of innocent traces, this cutesy catch phrase is wholly inappropriate. In simple terms, this is not “time to crime’, but is nothing more than the time from first retail sale to the time the gun got the attention of a LEA and was traced. If the LEA date is lacking, ATF instructs the person entering the trace to use the date of the trace. Considering all the completely innocent traces from state firearm registration systems and state purchase records (all because the gun 'might' have been used in a crime, the data is effectively skewed to make it worthless for any statistical purpose. This statistic can be useful in individual traces and only occasionally interesting in summary form, for example, the average age of traced Mexican guns is over 14 years. In New Jersey, it's over 13 years, and nationally, it's over 10 years. Again, the number of innocent traces skews the data and makes it nonsensical. To repeat the Congressional Research Service, ATF's tracing system was not designed to collect statistics.

[Ike]

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[Ike]

I was surprised to find most of my eTrace posts removed from the Phoenix/Fast and Furious thread.... Then I found the discussion split up and some of them on the archived "That Damned AC" thread. I thought we had an interesting and productive discussion going.... I'm out of the country on travel right now, but when I return, (if anyone is interested), I'll recap my information into a critique of eTrace (and lord knows, there's plenty to critique!) If no one is interested, then I'll drop it..... Feedback? Does anyone want to comment on passing personal information of innocent U.S. citizens (enough for ID theft) from eTrace to corrupt Mexican Cops? This personal information is given to every Mexican user of the bilingual eTrace, and other trace results passed to the Mexicans by every eTrace user in the consulates in Mexico - not to mention the Mexican tracing center. Everybody should be outraged about this..... We should also remember that, while the United States operates on the "Innocent until proven guilty" legal principle. Mexico does not. In Mexico, they operate on the "Guilty until proven innocent" principle. You go to jail until you can prove you're innocent. Given that, how can we justify passing American citizen 'first purchaser' personal information to corrupt Mexican cops; especially if the original retail purchase was 5, 10, 20 or more years ago? By ATF's own statistics (!), the average age of traced Mexican guns (until Fast & Furious, that is) is over 14 years! Just askin'......

[Doc Holiday]

We are attempting to retrieve ALL previous posts on this topic. Technical error. We apoligize. "We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to bad guys," said the cooperating FFL..... Well, guess what..... Every "Gunwalker" gun traced (through eTrace) from Mexico, or anywhere else, is a "crime gun" sale which will be permanently recorded by the eTrace system against the first selling dealer, and tabulated at the National Tracing Center. With enough 'crime gun' sale traces, the FFL will be targeted for extra scrutiny during ATF annual inspections. This practice is documented in ATF publications and is an automated process through eTrace at the National Tracing Center. It's highly unlikely that the automated system could or would be suspended by ATF Supervisor Voth - that would skew the statistics! The FFLs who cooperated with ATF during the "Gunwalker" sales to Mexican traffickers should be made aware that their sales to 'straw purchasers' and Mexican traffickers encouraged by Supervisor Voth and others will count against them in the eTrace system - for many years to come. This could be a high price to pay for cooperating...... Would anyone like to tell me I'm wrong?

[Doc Holiday]

Zorro: As you said, the operative word here is should. It clearly doesn't operate that way in all jurisdictions. Too many bureaucrats have no understanding of the way the tracing system was supposed to work. If a dealer has more 'crime gun' traces than other local dealers, he must be doing something wrong. Of course, it may just mean that he is a high volume dealer, and nothing else. Or, it may mean that he has been in business for many more years than the other dealers, and would naturally have more traces. Nevertheless, certain narrow bureaucratic minds see only the high number of traces, and decide that the FFL should be put out of business. Despite that many (if not most) traces are not directly connected to crime, a 2010 ATF eTrace PowerPoint Presentation to a United Nations Firearms Workshop publicly stated, "When you find several traces associated with multiple sales, you may have identified a straw purchaser", and "Identify FFL’s [dealers] in your Area Who May Cater to Criminals. By utilizing the Top Source Dealer report, you can potentially identify FFL’s who are known as a criminal friendly FFL." eTrace should be used to trace only true 'crime guns'. But the original purpose of eTrace has been perverted into a firearms and people registration system, with Law Enforcement Agencies urged by ATF to trace all guns - 'just in case' they 'might' have been used in a previous crime, or 'might' be used in a later crime. Even 'observed' guns (at a gunshow, for example) are sometimes traced. But the system wasn't designed to actually distinguish innocent traces (a Concealed Carry at a traffic stop) from a 'crime gun' used in a murder. The original system intent to trace only guns in a 'bona fide' investigation has been perverted by ATF to encompass "the gun 'might' have been used in a crime', so it's a 'bona fide' investigation." Say what? ATF’s Gary L. Thomas, in a 2003 United Nations Institute for Disarmament Research paper, referred to the “Gold Standard” of tracing being “web-based registration”, explicitly and consistently forbidden by Congress. Yet, that's exactly what eTrace has turned into. Not to mention that eTrace can be accessed world-wide.... Since 1992, and as recently as 2009, the Congressional Research Service warned about the use of statistics from ATF's eTrace system. "The ATF tracing system is an operational system designed to help law enforcement agencies identify the ownership path of individual firearms. It was not designed to collect statistics." Yet ATF continues to use it for statistics, relies on it for statistics, and even reports false statistics to Congress and the press. Everybody remembers the famous 90% figure for U.S. origin guns seized in Mexico as reported by Hoover and Newell (and repeated by President Obama, and Hillary) - which even ATF has now discredited. eTrace can't even handle duplicate serial numbers, which results in false positives. But nobody talks about those.... But I digress. While you're cleaning up ATF, please clean up this mess.

[Doc Holiday]

Z, You raise lots of points, some of which are good, and some appear to be you venting, which is the purpose of this cite. Is that fair? As one who uses e trace data, it is simply a tool. No more no less. No agents I know would use the e trace data on its own to attempt to write an affidavit or indict. With any data collected, one can and probably should use a statistical approach to conduct an analysis thereof. This should not surprise you or even alarm you. ATF is no different than any other entity, public or private, who attempts to make sense of the data they collect. Any good investigator (apparently there aren't too many left in ATF who still enjoy working cases) uses this tool and many other methods to work cases. Please provide the source of the quote you cited: " Despite that many (if not most) traces are not directly connected to crime, a 2010 ATF eTrace PowerPoint Presentation to a United Nations Firearms Workshop publicly stated, "When you find several traces associated with multiple sales, you may have identified a straw purchaser", and "Identify FFL’s [dealers] in your Area Who May Cater to Criminals. By utilizing the Top Source Dealer report, you can potentially identify FFL’s who are nown as a criminal friendly FFL." My guess is this is not a complete quote or it was taken out of context. Perhaps I am wrong? "eTrace should be used to trace only true 'crime guns'." Have you found the definition of crime gun as per ATF? It may be different than what you feel it should be. Explain what research you conducted to make this determination: "But the original purpose of eTrace has been perverted into a firearms and people registration system, with Law Enforcement Agencies urged by ATF to trace all guns - 'just in case' they 'might' have been used in a previous crime, or 'might' be used in a later crime. Even 'observed' guns (at a gunshow, for example) are sometimes traced. But the system wasn't designed to actually distinguish innocent traces (a Concealed Carry at a traffic stop) from a 'crime gun' used in a murder. The original system intent to trace only guns in a 'bona fide' investigation has been perverted by ATF to encompass "the gun 'might' have been used in a crime', so it's a 'bona fide' investigation." Say what?" I have never heard of anyone simply requesting traces of firearms guns observed at a gun show or an FFL shop simply b/c they want to build up e trace. Are you being a bit presumptuous? Please explain this with examples and or personal observation or those told to you by an agent. The trace system has other aspects that you may or may not be familiar with that focus on stolen firearms, and more. "ATF’s Gary L. Thomas, in a 2003 United Nations Institute for Disarmament Research paper, referred to the “Gold Standard” of tracing being “web-based registration”, explicitly and consistently forbidden by Congress. Yet, that's exactly what eTrace has turned into. Not to mention that eTrace can be accessed world-wide.... Since 1992, and as recently as 2009, the Congressional Research Service warned about the use of statistics from ATF's eTrace system. "The ATF tracing system is an operational system designed to help law enforcement agencies identify the ownership path of individual firearms. It was not designed to collect statistics." Yet ATF continues to use it for statistics, relies on it for statistics, and even reports false statistics to Congress and the press. Everybody remembers the famous 90% figure for U.S. origin guns seized in Mexico as reported by Hoover and Newell (and repeated by President Obama, and Hillary) - which even ATF has now discredited. eTrace can't even handle duplicate serial numbers, which results in false positives. But nobody talks about those.... But I digress. While you're cleaning up ATF, please clean up this mess." [/quote] I respect what everyone on this website says, even when I disagree. You seem angry and bitter, not exactly sure why. Are you really against ATF having a firearms trace system at all? Tracing a firearm back to the original retail purchaser can be a great place to start an investigation. Leads are generated and sometimes, agents even get to indict, make arrests, and wow, sounds like they do real law enforcement work with one of their tools. Hmmmmm. Wasn't that the intent of this tracing system? Occassionally, we even use the results to enable the return of a firearm to the original purchaser after he experienced a theft. Some firearms owners don't even know their own firearms serial numbers, isn't that something. In those instances, ATF brings a smile to the firearms owner. Gotta love it. How would you prefer the firearms tracing system work? Maybe you have a better idea, perhaps you are a bit confused. I am interested in what you have you say. Thanks for your concerns, maybe you can Learn ATF a new lesson.

[Historic Arms LLC]

Doc, I fully understand the need for the new thread but what happened to all of the posts on this subject under "gunrunner". I know of at least one lawmaker who was looking at that information. Can you please post Ike's information here that was removed???

[Doc Holiday]

This tipic is created in the interest of housekeeping and maintaining focus on the site.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

We (the field) have formally, officially and sometimes unofficially attempted to encourage Director Melson, DD Hoover and their predecessors to restore the integrity of the agency. We have asked them to demand leadership from our executives, and to control and reign in Chief Counsels Office and corrupt and unethical practices. So here we are. Mr. Melson can no longer pretend to be in charge or have ANY say so in our Agency's future. Mr. Traver sits silent as if he has NO IDEA any of this is going on. So what happens? EXACTLY what is supposed to happen, Congressional oversight.
1. Fact; Mr. Melson chose not or was told not to respond to a U.S. Senator with DIRECT impact on our agencys future.

2. Fact; The allegation Sen. Grassley references is not false and Mr. Melson and Newell have publicly admitted it in their press conference. We did know, we didnt "interdict or prevent this from happening. We NEVER let guns walk. That has been our mantra since we became a Bureau.

3. Fact; ATF did not make every effort to "interdict" these guns or they WOULD HAVE been interdicted. We have been interdicting guns for 40 years. We know what that is Mr. Melson. PS, we dont withold information regarding potential guns hitting the streets from our sister agencys. Not even if they are MEXICAN.Those guys are goin toe to toe with the worst we've ever seen and you dont TRUST them? Stop the "legal word games". The nature of a straw purchase makes it inherintly illegal if we have information regarding the purchaser (which we did). Stop acting or attempting to convince Congress or the public that because at face value a person is not prohibited that we CANT do anything because this particular gun is not contraband. There are a bunch of successful trafficking groups in Atlanta and New York that DO interdict guns everyday. Its called doing our job.

4. Fact; No, Project gunner does not focus on straw purchasers, THAT IS THE POINT.

5. Fact, We will not dismantle entire organization without the Mexican LE help, but they can hardly help with Newell and Gillette hoarding their intel EVEN from our own people. The grandstanding needs to stop.

6. Fact; ATF and Mr. Melson have totally retaliated against ANY agent who demands leadership, NOT JUST IN THIS MATTER. Do the math. Release the DSZ disbursements. Exposes the smoke and mirror bad faith mediations and the wasted MILLIONS of dollars of DOJ money spents defending your indefensible abuses against SA Jay Dobyns and others.

7. Fact; Senior managers scoff at your training, have been found to have violated serious mandates regarding whistlblower reprisals and EEOC retaliations and you DO CLEARLY NOT understand the importance of accountability.

8. Fact; if its confidential information, then why is Newell and Melson holding press conferences to tout it?

9; Fact; the standing policy about not releasing information apparently did not apply when Congresswoman Giffords was shot. Thats right, there was no evidence of governments malfeasence or misconduct in that situation.

10; Fact; you do not look forward to briefing the Senator or you would have. That would first require that you become aware of the case and be granted access to our case files.

11. Fact; the fast tracking of Newell to Mexico before the Senator can provide the necessary oversight and perhaps make corrections to at best a flawed management practice and at worse GROSS negligence is a testament to exactly what we have collectively said about the Agencys institutional arrogance.
The agents of ATF do have integrity. They do love this agency. And we WILL cooperate with ANY member of U.S. the Congress who is in the performace of their lawful and elected duties.

[Doc Holiday]

It is never too late to do the right thing. We own this agency as much as the visitors like Mr. Melson and the posers who are merely concerned with padding their own resume'. We need to demand an end to the foolishness and retaliation and waste fraud and abuse, and guess what? We will get it. Mr. Melson is a career bureaucrat, and Hoover and Chait lost sight of what we do. But we haven't. We WILL NOT let the Martins, Fords and Crenshaws and Gleysteens and Loos' destroy what so many before us built. Call them out. Expose the corruption. CUATF had 4000 reads this week. Mr. Holders "suggestion box is obviously worthless and Mr. Melson has YET to engage his people. You took an oath, own it and that will put you way ahead of the 5th floor.

AMEN to that! At times I thought co-workers would step up for what they know is right, but it always comes down to "I have to work for that manager." So the evil continues for fear of retaliation. Very frustrating but common in ATF. The fear of retaliation is overwhelming for some employees.

[Enufsenuf]

“When young men seek to be like you,
when lazy men resent you,
when powerful men look over their shoulder at you,
when cowardly men plot behind your back,
when corrupt men wish you were gone
and evil men want you dead…
Only then will you have done your share.”
- Phil Messina
"There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right."
Ronald Reagan

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil - is that good men do nothing."

Then why are there so many good men - still doing nothing? Has the moral bankruptcy that infests our management filled our ranks as well? Are our moral compasses now only navigated by the consequences which await us when we follow them? Has our sense of what’s right become conditional on our landing on the winning side? What happened? I’ve made my choice:
“I would rather sleep in the southern corner of a little country churchyard, than in the tombs of the Capulets.”

I just never thought that there would be so few others there with me.

AMEN to that! At times I thought co-workers would step up for what they know is right, but it always comes down to "I have to work for that manager." So the evil continues for fear of retaliation. Very frustrating but common in ATF. The fear of retaliation is overwhelming for some employees.

[Ronin]

“When young men seek to be like you,
when lazy men resent you,
when powerful men look over their shoulder at you,
when cowardly men plot behind your back,
when corrupt men wish you were gone
and evil men want you dead…
Only then will you have done your share.”
- Phil Messina
"There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right."
Ronald Reagan

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil - is that good men do nothing."

Then why are there so many good men - still doing nothing? Has the moral bankruptcy that infests our management filled our ranks as well? Are our moral compasses now only navigated by the consequences which await us when we follow them? Has our sense of what’s right become conditional on our landing on the winning side? What happened? I’ve made my choice:
“I would rather sleep in the southern corner of a little country churchyard, than in the tombs of the Capulets.”

I just never thought that there would be so few others there with me.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Virtually every Directorate is or has failed. Mr. Traver is NOT weighing in, Mr. Melson has failed, along with Hoover and Chait. We have attempted desparately to engage our management for years. Counsels Office has destroyed the credibility of the agency. Complaints and reprisals are at an all time high. Our leadership has sold the farm without a plan. Now they are being held accountable. Please use DISCRETION in the use of the following email adresses,but please use them. They are being read and it is PAST time for oversight hearings. Keep your information relevant and significant. This MAY be the last opportunity to SAVE ATF. Send the most glaring violations of the EEOC, Whistle-blower and OSC abuses and GROSS mismanagement abuses. The us and them mentality must end NOW. Info@judiciary-dem.senate.gov Attn Erica Chabot Also send your evidence of ATF abuses to whistleblower@judiciary-rep.senate.gov