142 replies to this topic

[Cool Hand]

Okay, okay, I've got this figured out.  If the Acting Director's first priority was to terminate Cefalu at the height of the F&F crisis (with the real threat of indictments against executives and possible abolishment of the agency), his next moves should be: discipline the whistleblowers for violating the media policy...send the former SAC of PHX to Mexico anyways (because, by God, he is behind him 100% and this will all blow over soon enough)...promote the "detailed" ASACs to SAC backfills...promote G/S PHX VII to ASAC of PHX...and...ah what the hell...reinstate the former SAC of Atlanta as the Deputy Director.  Sure, this is dark satire, but something close to this will happen.  Just watch brothers and sisters...just watch.

[Historic Arms LLC]

Perhaps the ATF fifth floor management should have considered for a moment that when they declared war on Agent Cefalu he might just declare war back on them....

So thus it begins...Mr. Melson in one act you have ignited an internal ATF "civil war" between field agents and management, And...AND...declared war on congress by openly being openly defiant to Chairman Issa's warning about retribution to whistle blowers.

Might I point out that starting a two front war did not work out so well for Hitler in WWII...

[GoodWorker]

Jumper, on 24 June 2011 - 07:46 PM, said:

I wonder if G. Elaine Smith ATF's Bureau Deciding Official (aka Grim Reaper) and Bill McMahon the Deputy Assistant Director who voted to terminate your service (even though he approved, supported and still defends Fast and Furious; aka hypocrite) thought your interview on Fox tonight displayed "less than candor".

I bet they don't.

I agree with you Vince.  You do not lack candor and you do not have body odor like some A-hole stated 2 years back.  We need more stand up guys like Vince.

[Cool Hand]

I missed a lot of the fireworks this week...but I absolutely stand with Vince.  There are many who build themselves up based on image, but Vince is the guy who actually comes running through the hail of bullets to help a brother when he's down.  I know this to be true.  "...he's got guts...and guts is good enough!!!"  
Semper Fi, Gunny.

[CovertOne]

Corny you hit the nail on the head.  A very small handful of ATF executives wrongly believed that the agencies loyalty was to them and not Vince Cefalu.  They were very sadly mistaken.  People who have known Vince for years have stepped onto his side of the line.  People who are only familiar Vince have too.  People who have no idea who Vince is have done the same.

This little group of self-proclaimed imperial leaders at ATF have done everything in their collective powers to paint Vince and Dobyns as public enemy number one to the public and to ATF's employees.

No one is buying it.  There is no doubt how much those guys and others care about ATF.  They have risked their careers and reputations to speak out.

In the midst of Fast and Furious those same decision makers made the worst possible move they could have with the plan and timing to fire Vince.  ATF executives who have no dog in the hunt are coming forward to support Vince and say "enough is enough".  

The lies, the cover ups, the stonewalling, the abuse of those of us in the field ends now, today, immediately.  Melson, Hoover, Chait, McMahon, Loos don't get to say when it ends.  It ends now because WE the working stiffs at ATF, say it does.

God bless Vince and every person out there, ATF or not, who is done with the corruption.

Corny, on 25 June 2011 - 10:55 AM, said:

I'm not the smartest guy at ATF.  I'm not the best Agent we have.  I try to be a good soldier and follow the good leadership.  But I do know this.

Who ever our Director is, whether Melson stays, whether Traver comes in, whether an Interim Director is seated --- ATF's Headquarters has entirely lost the support of the field and they have to do something to get it back.  You guys have created a giant wall of resentment.

The simplest and quickest way to do that is to put and end to the nonscense and clean up and out the old bad business.  Everyday presents an opportunity to start new and fresh and change our ways.

Stop firing employees for allegations that pale against the proven facts that executives have been given grace for.  Stop beating down people in the field.  Stop defeating the spirit and will and motivation of the field.  Stop retaliating against your workers.  ATF is being run the principle of communism.

Get rid of the old bad business.  Clean up the pending EEO disputes.  Stop the terminations.  Stop suing agents.  We can not move forward with all the resentment from the field.  Remember, HQ is what, maybe 5% of the total agency.  Without the support of the other 95% we simply can't and won't recover and move forward.

ATF will be just fine without the likes of Melson, Hoover and Chait.  ATF stands no chance without the 2500 street employees.  Before anything else our leadership needs to show that they care about us, not tell us how much they do.

[The Original Ralph]

VINCENT A CEFALU, on 24 June 2011 - 09:44 PM, said:

Ralph, don't know who you are and don't care. First let me say I like you. Its called thinking outside the box and the ad is an EXCELLENT idea. TBC  We can post a draft and everybody can weigh in, so its representative of the ENTIRE field.
Regarding any suggestion of any funds, I am SO appreciative and yes humbled. However, before this train even leaves the station, I have EVERYTHING I need. I have my friends, and I have my honor. So please, if anybody is reading this PLEASE, send your money to Katrina victims, the Law Enforcement Memorial fund or Law Enforcement Survivors Children's scholarship fund or maybe we could see if the Terry and Zapata families need any help.  Peace V

Appreciate the compliment but it's only "outside the box" because it's not your environment (investigations are), to me, marketing is the primary approach, albeit if this is with a unique focus. My only goal, as i stated in an earlier thread, is to have an ATF Wash beaucracy with half the integrity i assumed them have.

if it helps, I've got trade industry articles scanned that i think demonstrate the history & established pattern of corruption of management at Wash HQ - I suspect the board may already have some or most of these, but the two that come to mind foremost are:

1) article that appeared in 1996 (iirc) issue of SAR magazine re NFA Branch's assistant chief caught (in the appeal) of committing complete perjury in testimony given in a case in Norfolk va. The perjury related to testifying the NFA registry was 100% accurate when in fact not only did was it not, but the dealer had presented evidence he had faxed in to NFA branch forms, which ATF denied, and in the appeal, after proving the perjury re the "100% accuracy rate", Gary Schaibel admitted to defense counsel, when asked "if there were any instances of NFA staff having been reprimanded in any way related to the charges filed against the defendant", Schaibel, already having been embarrassed because of having been caught with first instance of perjury, didn't know if defense (Jim Jeffries) counsel had evidence or was fishing. Schaibel fessed up, that 2 on staff had been "punitively transferred" for having shredded faxed in forms. An innocent dealer had been originally sentenced to 20 yrs for possession of six "unregistered" machineguns that were in fact registered. Equally bad, he lost his store, his home, his wife and 2 teenage sones were living in his brother-in-laws' basement while the appeal was heard. You can bet his gray hair count went way up, and it was only by the grace of god that he retained Jim Jeffries (retired DOJ prosecutor that absolutely hated ATF management) and then again by the grace of god, that a FBI bud of his informed him of the nationally teleconferenced training seminar detailing the instructions from the then chief of NFA (Busey) to agents that "we have always and will always testify the NFA registry is 100% accurate" - that stmt made as he had just finished indicating the registry suffered from an error rate of 49-50%.

There's more to that story but for brevity here, i'll leave the descript at that

2nd one - iirc, another article re the ATF Air force and how the ATF director setting up that "air force" embezzled $4.2 million, and even after the GAO discovered the embezzlement, ATF tried to quietly retire him rather than prosecute. That story was researched / written by Jim Pate - Pate has been nominated for a couple of Pulitzers and has testified at congress before.

I've actually got a collection of about 18-19 of these type stories that i've saved with my atty, as well as one, of lesser seriousness but still close, where we caught our NFA examiner altering forms we'd submitted (changing the application date to cover his backside on how long he'd been sitting on the transfers). I filed an OIG complaint (Office of Professional misconduct), and have a 41 minute phone call recording with Mary Jo Hughes, then division director of NFA, Imports & Licensing (all office lines are recorded and it's legal here in my state). In that conversation, Mrs Hughes confirmed that if my allegations were true, it would constitute a double felony, one of making a fraudulent representation on a fed document and 2nd of altering a fed document. NO INVESTIGATION WAS ever conducted - in fact, the individual was promoted to supervisor.

Another instance of chief counsel Theresa Ficaretta (not certain of the spelling) lying to me in a letter - the exact opposite of her indication to me surfaced in another letter she'd written to a firearms atty in another ruling letter.

if the board were to organize a page detailing the instances of corruption, in a way so that it's better organized for new visitors to this subject, i think you'd see a ton of interest snowballing in the public. Just the story of the dealer in norfolk and the ATF Air Force embezzlement would make a good foundation for what ATF is doing today, to it's agents and to the public in the way of the FAST & FURIOUS scandal, and sure would make it hard for chuckie schumer to attack those testifying against ATF and protect ATF management.

If the board wants copies of these, i'd prefer to send paper copies by snail mail. just post a mailing address

and one last possible offering - there's one individual at ATF HQ that i trust - my trust of him was confirmed when i asked my then atty, Jim Jeffries about him - Jim's response was "he's the only one that i've had on the stand that wouldn't lie for ATF". he's now retired, and a helluva solid guy - stilling working for ATF on a contract basis, but pretty independent. i suspect he could be awfully useful if approached by someone on this board, in the right manner, in a number of ways. In one conversation him, and with him knowing my office lines are recorded, in response to my question to him "xxxx, has lying become a professional responsibility at ATF?", his response was, in a low / embarrassed tone, "yes - no one here knows how to apologize when they're caught wrong - instead they go straight to circling the wagons".

I would also suggest contacting Jim Jeffries - he retired for the 3rd time (21 yrs Marine Corp JAG, 13 yrs DOJ prosecutor then a number of years private law practice in the firearms field. Also Robert Sands, retired atty. He was director of ATF's Law Enforcement division and retired early 1990 and went to practicing firearms law, as he hated the degradation of integrity & standards at ATF. Last time i spoke to him though, alhzimers appeared to be setting in.

FWIW

[Corny]

I'm not the smartest guy at ATF.  I'm not the best Agent we have.  I try to be a good soldier and follow the good leadership.  But I do know this.

Who ever our Director is, whether Melson stays, whether Traver comes in, whether an Interim Director is seated --- ATF's Headquarters has entirely lost the support of the field and they have to do something to get it back.  You guys have created a giant wall of resentment.

The simplest and quickest way to do that is to put and end to the nonscense and clean up and out the old bad business.  Everyday presents an opportunity to start new and fresh and change our ways.

Stop firing employees for allegations that pale against the proven facts that executives have been given grace for.  Stop beating down people in the field.  Stop defeating the spirit and will and motivation of the field.  Stop retaliating against your workers.  ATF is being run the principle of communism.

Get rid of the old bad business.  Clean up the pending EEO disputes.  Stop the terminations.  Stop suing agents.  We can not move forward with all the resentment from the field.  Remember, HQ is what, maybe 5% of the total agency.  Without the support of the other 95% we simply can't and won't recover and move forward.

ATF will be just fine without the likes of Melson, Hoover and Chait.  ATF stands no chance without the 2500 street employees.  Before anything else our leadership needs to show that they care about us, not tell us how much they do.

[Thor God of Thunder]

My 200% support goes to Vince Cefalu! This "lack of candor" term is being used to rid the Agency of Senior Special Agents because of the budget shortfall that will be experienced in FY2012.  

This is unacceptable management by ATF's stupid executives.  The Congressional Hearings were dead-on...ATF is being led by a bunch of idiots and incompetents!

Vince, I know you will press on and prove them wrong!  

[Thor God of Thunder]

ISpy, on 25 June 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

Didn't the OIG accuse Marvin Richardson of "Lack of Candor"?  Did IA investigate that one for two years?

Then again he is a 15 and got a promotion to SAC.  What was I thinking?

Don't forget he was also Chairman of the PRB before his promotion to SAC.

[SA FOG]

I didn't get to watch the broadcast last night on the Nightly Scoreboard. I have tried to find it on the web but haven't been successful.  Could some of you more computer savvy folks find it and post it please.

[ISpy]

Didn't the OIG accuse Marvin Richardson of "Lack of Candor"?  Did IA investigate that one for two years?

Then again he is a 15 and got a promotion to SAC.  What was I thinking?

[reddog]

Vince,

Keep on hanging tough my friend.  Just know you have the full support of many, if not most of us grunts out here throughout the nation.  If or when you are comfortable with sharing the details given by management for your proposed removal, I would love to hear what they based your lack of candor on (as reported this morning by CBS News).  

The "Lack of Candor" vehicle for firing ATF employees seems to be growing in popularity with the ATF management team.  I heard of another SA out of Chicago, Jeff Litman, a dedicated and honest SA with over 22 years of service to ATF, who was removed from service under the same guise just a couple of months ago.  His story would be laughable, just as yours is I'm sure, if he were not removed from duty and fighting for his career back.

I really hope that the ATF management team comes to it's senses before it's too late.  Too many people in Congress, as well as the American people, are watching this circus freak show we call ATF.  Our management team could easily start to correct the grave mistakes they recently have made.  The first steps would include accepting liability and shouldering responsibility.  I know that is hopeful thinking, but if you dream - dream big!

Good luck to you Vince (with the way our management conducts business, I'm sure ultimately you will not need it!)

Respectfully,

Reddog

[law-abiding]

You are not alone, Vince.  Do not know you personally, but I admire your courage and effort.  As far as I am concerned this is just the beginning.  You have agents behind you onthis.

Semper Fi

[Ike]

Vince:

From the heart.....  I salute you.

Honor - above all else.

Ike

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Ralph, don't know who you are and don't care. First let me say. I like you. It's called "thinking outside the box" and the ad is an EXCELLENT idea. TBC  We can post a draft and everybody can weigh in, so its representative of the ENTIRE field.

Regarding any suggestion of any funds, I am SO appreciative and yes humbled. However, before this train even leaves the station, I have EVERYTHING I need. I have my friends, and I have my honor. So please, if anybody is reading this PLEASE, send your money to Katrina victims, the Law Enforcement Memorial fund or Law Enforcement Survivors Children's scholarship fund or maybe we could see if the Terry and Zapata families need any help.  Peace V  

The Original Ralph, on 24 June 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

saw the segment on fox business news - and while it is good exposure, not exactly the prime time you guys need

again, i'll suggest, even a 1/4 page ad in the washington times,(insist on the top half of the page), run 3 days consecutive, simply stating, something along the lines "Help us Clean Up the Corruption, Arrogance & Waste at ATF - we need the American public's help. Visit CleanUpATF.org

sign it "current and former employees / agents of ATF"

start a fund here, i'll contribute (for the record, i'm not atf but am and have been firearms industry since 1982)

guys, you'll have ATF wetting themselves and you WILL get attention, from other media as well as more attention from congress

and start another fund to help support vince Cefalu's legal costs

the american public needs to know about what i've never told anyone outside the industry, cause they'd never have believed it
hearing it from ATF agents will give it credentials

just a suggestion - keep the sunlight or spotlight on ATF

[The Original Ralph]

saw the segment on fox business news - and while it is good exposure, not exactly the prime time you guys need

again, i'll suggest, even a 1/4 page ad in the washington times,(insist on the top half of the page), run 3 days consecutive, simply stating, something along the lines "Help us Clean Up the Corruption, Arrogance & Waste at ATF - we need the american public's help. Visit CleanUpATF.org

sign it "current and former employees / agents of ATF"

start a fund here, i'll contribute (for the record, i'm not atf but am and have been firearms industry since 1982)

guys, you'll have ATF wetting themselves and you WILL get attention, from other media as well as more attention from congress

and start another fund to help support vince Cefalu's legal costs

the american public needs to know about what i've never told anyone outside the industry, cause they'd never have believed it
hearing it from ATF agents will give it credentials

just a suggestion - keep the sunlight or spotlight on ATF

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

You of course may draw ANY assumptions you like. This is America. But for the record, the allegations are false, manipulated and one-sided. The only part they left out is that there are currently multiple investigations reviewing the constantly changing versions of management's story (Vido, Downs, Martin, Gleysteen, Bort and Peralta) under investigation related to my disputes. It's called perjury. But I guess it would have been harder to try and fire me AFTER they were proved to have lied under oath.

1V01ce0fR3as0n, on 24 June 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

ATF handed Vince Cefalu a letter yesterday telling him that he was to be fired for what ATF determined to be dastardly and infamous deeds.  After decades of dedicated duty to country and mission, he, ATF deemed, was beyond rehabilitation and merited an unceremonious and ignominious shuffling out of those hallowed ATF portals.  They took his badge and gun, and he walked out without so much as a look back at the ATF logo bearing the unwritten, “Arbeit macht Frei.”  This action begs one, single, over-arching question above all others: What the hell were they thinking?

Let us, for argument's sake, assume that the allegations against Vince are true and do not even include all of his transgressions.  Stop to look at the timing of his termination notice.  Only one week ago, Rep. Darell Issa expressly and unequivocally ordered ATF not to try to retaliate against agents involved in the current investigations of the debacle that was the Fast & Furious operation.  Sen. Charles Grassley likewise gave ATF and DOJ similar marching orders on multiple occasions.  The timing of Vince's termination proposal smacks of vengeful retaliation.  ATF's and DOJ's clear joint response to their no-retaliation directives was to piss on the legs of Rep. Issa and Sen. Grassley.  Somewhere tonight, Darell and Chuck are shaking off their pants legs incredulous at the unmistakable throwing down of the gauntlet by ATF and DOJ.

Vince, while not directly a witness to the antics of F&F, nor a participant in the mayhem that it wrought, has been a vocal critic of the documented foolishness that led to the tragic deaths of at least two US law enforcement officers and an unknown number of Mexican nationals.  He  coordinated the efforts of whistle-blowers and tried to ensure that they would receive some protection from the retaliation that ATF managers would certainly mete if allowed.  He has been vocal on this blog and everywhere people would listen about ATF abuses not only related to F&F, but all over the agency and the country.  He has complained about ATF management's abdications of the agency mission and of their abuses of employees, and by extension of our communities.  He was interviewed by CNN after having spent over two years with no assigned duties as a Special Agent.  And after having filed complaint after complaint against the agency, uninvestigated and unaddressed all, ATF now renders a second Proposal of Termination, the first having been withdrawn years ago after it also was shown to be pretextual and retaliatory.  The buyers of Cadillacs, discriminators, perjurers, filers of false police reports and smugglers of firearms into Mexico still clip-clop their Italian-leathered soles around ATF Headquarters with impunity, but Vince had to be drummed out immediately lest he taint the crisp, cool linens that drape the incestuous four-poster that comprises ATF's top management and Counsels Office.  

So what brain-trust broke out the 5th Floor's Magic 8-Ball that said this was a good time to whack the hornet's nest again?  Did ATF's hockey-helmeted management cadre orchestrate this alone, or did DOJ also jump into the mire, rubber booted and yellow-slickered, to lend their able talents?  What discussions led them to decide that when you have an agency lambasted by criticisms across the board, internally and externally, that is a good time to throw a telegraphed hay-maker in front of the crowd just hoping for another agency foul?  When in open Congressional hearings last week,  witnesses testified that ATF is rife with examples of retaliation against employees, what untarnished genius concluded that the following week was the perfect time to launch a full frontal attack on one of the most vocal critics of ATF management decisions, to include the collusion of the ATF Counsels Office, and the abuses and retaliation carried out by both?  And pray tell me the bonus that Public Affairs leadership will get for the epiphany to serve Vince the proposal on a Thursday, so he would have time to arrange media interviews that could run all weekend, the very weekend that Rep. Issa, et al, are in Mexico continuing their investigation of F&F?  This was an act to show that ATF will show no more respect or consideration for its own than it did for the people of Mexico.

And the question's icing, as it is with F&F, who knew what and when?  Did Ken Melson know that this was coming in the middle of the current maelstrom, or did this catch him by surprise after the fact?  Mr. Melson's background in law and science does not likely lend itself to impulsive acts.  Either he knew and took careful consideration before either he rendered active approval or passive acquiescence, or he did not know and now finds himself in another morass spawned of those around him interested only in their own power and positions?  If the former, then he is no better than those around him and merits no better end.  If the latter, he needs to break ranks and show the leadership this agency needs right now.  If he is interested in testifying before Congress about F&F and other issues at ATF, then he can include in his testimony unambiguous condemnation of what are clear examples of incompetence, abuse, and retaliation within ATF.

[Jumper]

That statement shows how dangerous a combination arrogence and vengance can be.

lancebone1967, on 24 June 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

Below is a statement provided under the penalty of perjury by an ATF Agent regarding the training he/she received on how ATF managers are instructed to handle personnel disputes.

(It was first publicly exposed during a CNN interview of Cefalu and others.  Here is the link: ATF AGENTS DESCRIBE FEAR OF RETALIATION  http://articles.cnn....?_s=PM:POLITICS)

The training was provided to ATF managers by Eleanor Loos - ATF'S CHIEF ETHICS ATTORNEY (!) - and her trusted assistant Valerie Bacon.

When confronted publicly with this document ATF Public Relations SpinMaster Scott Thomasson is quoted as follows, "The bureau looked into the statements made by Loos.  What we found is those statements were being taken out of context.  In addition, they were being characterized in a slanted matter by the person who wrote it."

Wrong Scott Thomasson.  ATF didn't look into Loos's statements.  They weren't taken out of context.  You, Mr. Public and Governmental Affair are a stone-cold liar!  You defended corruption and violations of the law!

This is exactly the type of mentality ATF Agents like Vince Cefalu are forced to battle under with ATF leadership.  

Ask yourself this question:  If I am an ATF Agent with a dispute or knowledge of illegal activity; do I come forward?; do I tell the truth?; do I seek justice?; will the "No Fear Act" protect me?

Before you answer you can seek the counsel of Agents like Hiram Andres, John Taylor, Paul Jessen, Kelly Niess, Louis Quinonez, Jay Dobyns, Rene Jacquez, James Tokos, Steve Carmen, Robbie McGowan-Bulter, Phyliss Goins, Francis Neeley, John Dodson, Reggina Jones, Rafiq Ahmad, Patty Montoya, Jeff Litman, Doug DaCosta or Dan Arrugueta - and that's just the short list.  Ask them how ATF treats whistleblowers.  They will tell you ATF f**ks whistleblowers and unless you're tied to "Gunrunner" or "Fast and Furious". Congress doesn't care.

I will not go into the details of the document because they are all contained within.  You decide what this means using the common sense, reason and logic God gave you.

Would you stick your neck out to speak the truth at ATF?

[Jumper]

I wonder if G. Elaine Smith ATF's Bureau Deciding Official (aka Grim Reaper) and Bill McMahon the Deputy Assistant Director who voted to terminate your service (even though he approved, supported and still defends Fast and Furious; aka hypocrite) thought your interview on Fox tonight displayed "less than candor".

I bet they don't.

VINCENT A CEFALU, on 24 June 2011 - 07:42 PM, said:

The short version is " Lack of Candor". Anyone who knows me knows I have many characters flaws. Lacking candor is NOT one of them. I don't lie, I have never lied under oath or in an Official capacity. I apologize for not posting sooner. Vincent A Cefalu

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

The short version is " Lack of Candor". Anyone who knows me knows I have many characters flaws. Lacking candor is NOT one of them. I don't lie, I have never lied under oath or in an Official capacity. I apologize for not posting sooner. Vincent A Cefalu

DiveMaster, on 23 June 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

Ok, I am new on here. So, this may sound like I am a dumbass but what the hell are they saying "officially" that Vince Cefalu did to deserve firing. I have been around long enough to know about some fk'ed up stuff happening that did not warrant firing. After all, one can apparently construct a gloryhole in a hotel room while on travel status and all is well.......What gives?????????!!!!!!!!

I know the WHY behind this, just not the "OFFICIAL" reason that was given.

[1V01ce0fR3as0n]

ATF handed Vince Cefalu a letter yesterday telling him that he was to be fired for what ATF determined to be dastardly and infamous deeds.  After decades of dedicated duty to country and mission, he, ATF deemed, was beyond rehabilitation and merited an unceremonious and ignominious shuffling out of those hallowed ATF portals.  They took his badge and gun, and he walked out without so much as a look back at the ATF logo bearing the unwritten, “Arbeit macht Frei.”  This action begs one, single, over-arching question above all others: What the hell were they thinking?

Let us, for argument's sake, assume that the allegations against Vince are true and do not even include all of his transgressions.  Stop to look at the timing of his termination notice.  Only one week ago, Rep. Darell Issa expressly and unequivocally ordered ATF not to try to retaliate against agents involved in the current investigations of the debacle that was the Fast & Furious operation.  Sen. Charles Grassley likewise gave ATF and DOJ similar marching orders on multiple occasions.  The timing of Vince's termination proposal smacks of vengeful retaliation.  ATF's and DOJ's clear joint response to their no-retaliation directives was to piss on the legs of Rep. Issa and Sen. Grassley.  Somewhere tonight, Darell and Chuck are shaking off their pants legs incredulous at the unmistakable throwing down of the gauntlet by ATF and DOJ.

Vince, while not directly a witness to the antics of F&F, nor a participant in the mayhem that it wrought, has been a vocal critic of the documented foolishness that led to the tragic deaths of at least two US law enforcement officers and an unknown number of Mexican nationals.  He  coordinated the efforts of whistle-blowers and tried to ensure that they would receive some protection from the retaliation that ATF managers would certainly mete if allowed.  He has been vocal on this blog and everywhere people would listen about ATF abuses not only related to F&F, but all over the agency and the country.  He has complained about ATF management's abdications of the agency mission and of their abuses of employees, and by extension of our communities.  He was interviewed by CNN after having spent over two years with no assigned duties as a Special Agent.  And after having filed complaint after complaint against the agency, uninvestigated and unaddressed all, ATF now renders a second Proposal of Termination, the first having been withdrawn years ago after it also was shown to be pretextual and retaliatory.  The buyers of Cadillacs, discriminators, perjurers, filers of false police reports and smugglers of firearms into Mexico still clip-clop their Italian-leathered soles around ATF Headquarters with impunity, but Vince had to be drummed out immediately lest he taint the crisp, cool linens that drape the incestuous four-poster that comprises ATF's top management and Counsels Office.  

So what brain-trust broke out the 5th Floor's Magic 8-Ball that said this was a good time to whack the hornet's nest again?  Did ATF's hockey-helmeted management cadre orchestrate this alone, or did DOJ also jump into the mire, rubber booted and yellow-slickered, to lend their able talents?  What discussions led them to decide that when you have an agency lambasted by criticisms across the board, internally and externally, that is a good time to throw a telegraphed hay-maker in front of the crowd just hoping for another agency foul?  When in open Congressional hearings last week,  witnesses testified that ATF is rife with examples of retaliation against employees, what untarnished genius concluded that the following week was the perfect time to launch a full frontal attack on one of the most vocal critics of ATF management decisions, to include the collusion of the ATF Counsels Office, and the abuses and retaliation carried out by both?  And pray tell me the bonus that Public Affairs leadership will get for the epiphany to serve Vince the proposal on a Thursday, so he would have time to arrange media interviews that could run all weekend, the very weekend that Rep. Issa, et al, are in Mexico continuing their investigation of F&F?  This was an act to show that ATF will show no more respect or consideration for its own than it did for the people of Mexico.

And the question's icing, as it is with F&F, who knew what and when?  Did Ken Melson know that this was coming in the middle of the current maelstrom, or did this catch him by surprise after the fact?  Mr. Melson's background in law and science does not likely lend itself to impulsive acts.  Either he knew and took careful consideration before either he rendered active approval or passive acquiescence, or he did not know and now finds himself in another morass spawned of those around him interested only in their own power and positions?  If the former, then he is no better than those around him and merits no better end.  If the latter, he needs to break ranks and show the leadership this agency needs right now.  If he is interested in testifying before Congress about F&F and other issues at ATF, then he can include in his testimony unambiguous condemnation of what are clear examples of incompetence, abuse, and retaliation within ATF.

[lancebone1967]

Below is a statement provided under the penalty of perjury by an ATF Agent regarding the training he/she received on how ATF managers are instructed to handle personnel disputes.

(It was first publicly exposed during a CNN interview of Cefalu and others.  Here is the link: ATF AGENTS DESCRIBE FEAR OF RETALIATION  http://articles.cnn....?_s=PM:POLITICS)

The training was provided to ATF managers by Eleanor Loos - ATF'S CHIEF ETHICS ATTORNEY (!) - and her trusted assistant Valerie Bacon.

When confronted publicly with this document ATF Public Relations SpinMaster Scott Thomasson is quoted as follows, "The bureau looked into the statements made by Loos.  What we found is those statements were being taken out of context.  In addition, they were being characterized in a slanted matter by the person who wrote it."

Wrong Scott Thomasson.  ATF didn't look into Loos's statements.  They weren't taken out of context.  You, Mr. Public and Governmental Affair are a stone-cold liar!  You defended corruption and violations of the law!

This is exactly the type of mentality ATF Agents like Vince Cefalu are forced to battle under with ATF leadership.  

Ask yourself this question:  If I am an ATF Agent with a dispute or knowledge of illegal activity; do I come forward?; do I tell the truth?; do I seek justice?; will the "No Fear Act" protect me?

Before you answer you can seek the counsel of Agents like Hiram Andres, John Taylor, Paul Jessen, Kelly Niess, Louis Quinonez, Jay Dobyns, Rene Jacquez, James Tokos, Steve Carmen, Robbie McGowan-Bulter, Phyliss Goins, Francis Neeley, John Dodson, Reggina Jones, Rafiq Ahmad, Patty Montoya, Jeff Litman, Doug DaCosta or Dan Arrugueta - and that's just the short list.  Ask them how ATF treats whistleblowers.  They will tell you ATF f**ks whistleblowers and unless you're tied to "Gunrunner" or "Fast and Furious". Congress doesn't care.

I will not go into the details of the document because they are all contained within.  You decide what this means using the common sense, reason and logic God gave you.

Would you stick your neck out to speak the truth at ATF?

[limestonenerd]

Commo Guy, thanks for your input.  Please believe that the agents of ATF are sickened by the death of Brian Terry even if our management and the AG are not.

Commo Guy, on 24 June 2011 - 01:11 PM, said:

I spent 4 years in DHS AZ. I know what a clusterf* DHS and DOJ have become. I decided to retire the day Brian Terry was killed, when my spineless DC Hq started burying their heads and covering their asses over the whole incident.

We knew the trigger had a cellphone; we knew the number. I got a friend to provide an SM Opus to track the phone on a helo. But the Famous But Incompetent took over the scene and that was the end of trying to find the trigger.

I don't know you Vince, but keep your chin up - you're not alone.

Semper Fidelis

[limestonenerd]

I don't know Vince personally but I know his story.  Why are Issa and Grassley allowing ATF's executive leadership and chief counsels office attorneys so flagrantly violate the No Fear Act?  Why have a law on the books to protect whistleblowers if it has no teeth.  Why do I have to get trained on the No Fear Act once a year when it is disregarded?

Note on McMahon:  From second hand experience that my fellow agents have experienced he never met an EEO complaint that he found to be credible.  E. Loos has every damn manager at ATF brainwashed into believing that no matter what they do wrong she will fight and win for them in court.

Simple Man, on 24 June 2011 - 12:39 AM, said:

DAD Bill McMahon and SAC Andy Anderson were the two agents on the disciplinary panel who voted to fire Vince.  There were a couple other twits and the Bureau Deciding Official G. Elaine Smith.

Don't care about the twits.  Don't care about Smith.  She may have final say but she is just a puppet for Chief Counsels Office.

Andy Anderson voting to kill off an agent based on one-sided IA report?  No surprises there.  He wears the right cuff links and has his shirts monogrammed so he can do whatever he wants in the world of ATF executives (except ever have the respect of another hard working ATF Agent again).  All you have ever done is say 'no' to agents that is until it comes time to fire one and they you say 'yes'.  You are one of the ones who has to be buried in the reorganization.

Bill McMahon voted to get rid of Vince.  OK.  Let's review.  Bill McMahon is Bill Newell's first level supervisor.  Bill McMahon is in the chain of command for Fast and Furious.  Bill McMahon has supervised for years, John Torres, Bill Newell, Kelvin Crenshaw.  Bill McMahon could have fired any of the three, done ATF a service and been completely justified and supported.  

Instead his club members get protected and you stand by for the report on Vanilla Pudding Vind pulling Vince's badge and gun.  San Francisco SAC Herkins didn't even have the balls to be in the office and face up to a 25-year agent when they took his job.  Now that is ATF leadership.  Our future.  NOT!  
Vind, Herkins you guys have to be buried in the reorganization too.  Seriously.  Grow some balls.

Bill McMahon.  What happened to you?  Do you remember the day your balls fell off or did they just slowly disolve once you started drinking the headquarters KoolAid and you never really noticed they were gone?

Vince is going to shock the house with the details of his railroading.  As the truth comes out the embarassment to ATF will grow larger.  He'll have his gun and badge back with back pay soon enough.  

McMahon, you'll hopefully be sitting in a jail cell, broke after the Terry's take your money in a civil suit, and you can think about what a coward you turned out to be by supporting Fast and Furious.

Hey Bill.  We were going to let this one go but since you turned into a total douche, get ready to explain all your cool trips on ATF's dime where you dragged your girlfriend around.  Some to Europe too, huh.  You better have this covered and buttoned down tight because a whole lotta people know what you been up to, watched you do it, heard you talk about it, watched you cheat the G for your personal pleasure.  

Game on bitches!

[Commo Guy]

I spent 4 years in DHS AZ. I know what a clusterf* DHS and DOJ have become. I decided to retire the day Brian Terry was killed, when my spineless DC Hq started burying their heads and covering their asses over the whole incident.

We knew the trigger had a cellphone; we knew the number. I got a friend to provide an SM Opus to track the phone on a helo. But the Famous But Incompetent took over the scene and that was the end of trying to find the trigger.

I don't know you Vince, but keep your chin up - you're not alone.

Semper Fidelis

[justice warrior]

microscope, on 23 June 2011 - 08:56 PM, said:

From the L.A. Times:

Kenneth E. Melson, who has run the bureau for two years, is reportedly eager to testify to Congress about the extent of his and other officials' involvement in the operation, code-named Fast and Furious.

Melson does not want to be "the fall guy" for the program, under which ATF agents allowed straw purchasers to acquire more than 1,700 AK-47s and other high-powered rifles from Arizona gun dealers, the sources said. The idea was to track the guns to drug cartel leaders. But that goal proved elusive, and the guns turned up at shootings in Mexico, as well as at the slaying in Arizona of a U.S. Border Patrol agent in December.

"He is saying he won't go," said one source close to the situation, who asked for anonymity because high-level discussions with Melson remained fluid. "He has told them, 'I'm not going to be the fall guy on this.' "

Added a second source, who also requested anonymity: "He's resisting. He does not want to go."

Oh that's just super Ken.  Now that your ass is on the line your testicles drop and you all of sudden form a backbone to stand tall?

With everything going on how did you find the time to fire Agent Cefalu?  When we find out what attorneys on your staff orchestrated the whitewash frame job you did on him they are going to be looking for the door too.

Looks as though he will be stepping down? I just went through the same thing that Agent Cefalu went through, but in the private sector but I have no fear, the truth will stand when all else falls.

http://www.cnn.com/2...?iref=allsearch

[CUATF Webmaster]

We just spoke with Congressman Issa's staff, and the House Oversight Committee staff. If you have access to a fax, please send a letter to the Committee (202.225.3974) expressing how outraged you are over ATF's unlawful retaliation against Whistleblower, Special Agent, Vincent Cefalu.  Some points to consider:

1) ATF's alleged justifications for the proposed adverse action are patently flawed and will never stand up to outside scrutiny. The claim that Vince was "less than candid" is absurdly false, a fact which will soon be borne out by discovery in a number of related criminal and civil cases. A number of ATF managers and a co-conspirator agent will likely be prosecuted and convicted for perjury. Moreover, so many top-ranking ATF managers have been officially found to have overtly lied or grotesquely distorted the truth in a litany of internal and external investigations as to render any "candor" assertion in an adverse action case such as Vince's, both laughable and procedurally untenable. Government-wide regulations require that disciplinary action at any level must be fairly and equitably applied, and it will be like shooting fish in a barrel to establish that ATF has deliberately and egregiously violated Vince's employee and civil rights.  We are prepared to unleash the Mother of all discovery packages that will air ATF management's dirty laundry in a manner that they haven't foreseen in the worst nightmares.

2) ATF is supposedly firing Vince for a number of alleged actions for which they have already disciplined (or attempted to discipline) him! That is overtly unlawful according to government-wide OPM regulations, in addition to DOJ and ATF policies.

3) Asst. Attorney General Ronald Weich told the Oversight Committee last during the recent hearings that DOJ (and ATF) would never retaliate against Whistleblowers". He lied.

4) ATF is disputing Vince's status as a Whistleblower, but that will never stand up to outside investigation. Cefalu meets every criteria as a Whistleblower and is considered to be one by certain influential members of Congress, which trumps anything that those criminal jackasses in ATF's Chief Counsel's Office have (as usual), fabricated.

This was done specifically as a shot across the bow of any additional agents who might think about standing up to ATF management's endemic corruption.  It is explicitly intended to have a chilling effect on potential Whistleblowers and cow them into submission.  But they have made a colossal miscalculation here, and at the worst possible moment.  They are already losing the PR battle, and will now be even more thoroughly exposed as a vile stain on the honor of federal law enforcement and our great nation.  They are clearly flailing and lashing out like a wounded animal, and now, it would seem that even Kenny Boy himself might be ready to start throwing people under the bus.  It would be entertaining if it wasn't so tragically serious for our nation.

We assure you with complete confidence that we are going to ram this proposed termination so far up their collective asses that they will be burping Cefalu for years to come.  The people who promulgated this decision are every bit as corrupt, despicable and criminal as the most heartless, law-breaking mobsters or drug cartel bosses. They will be held accountable.

Stay tuned and keep lighting up those phone numbers we have provided.

[CovertOne]

OK people here we go with the first concrete wave.  You gotta understand that these ATF undercover agents are a different breed of cat.  They don't roll over and lay down like the sissy's that run the join.  They get up, rally together and fight back.

Who:     ATF Special Agent Vince Cefalu
What:    Appearing on Fox's National Cable Television Program America's Nightly Scoreboard
When:    TODAY!  6:05 eastern / 3:05 pacific
Where:   Nationwide on your televsion.  Here is a link to find the station on your local cable http://www.foxbusine...nel_finder.html
Why:     Because ATF retaliated against Cefalu for blowing the whistle in the face of Congressional warnings and DOJ representatives stating that this never  
         happens
How:     Because ATF management does not care what anyone says, tells them to do or what the law states

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Vince,

It is outrageous that this has happened to you.

I went several rounds with ATF, in federal court, EEO and MSPB, each time I won.

I found out the more credible your evidence, the harder ATF management and legal counsel will try to discredit you.  

When ATF could not discredit me, they went after witnesses.

If ATF's executive staff did not violate regulations, laws and employee rights -- they would not need legal counsel to "handle"the situations.  At taxpayer's expense, I might add.  

If anyone looked into the fundamental operations of how ATF systematically conduct their business with employees that step up, report and expose the abuse of power --the taxpayers would be appalled at the CORRUPTION and VIOLATION OF PUBLIC TRUST.

We are all very upset with the fact that a federal employee may have died as the result of a weapon that ATF let walk.  BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS SITUATION WHEN THE BLOOD BEGINS TO SPILL FROM CIVILIANS AND BYSTANDERS.  I think Congress knows that it is a matter of time before those guns make it into criminal activities

[Simple Man]

DAD Bill McMahon and SAC Andy Anderson were the two agents on the disciplinary panel who voted to fire Vince.  There were a couple other twits and the Bureau Deciding Official G. Elaine Smith.

Don't care about the twits.  Don't care about Smith.  She may have final say but she is just a puppet for Chief Counsels Office.

Andy Anderson voting to kill off an agent based on one-sided IA report?  No surprises there.  He wears the right cuff links and has his shirts monogrammed so he can do whatever he wants in the world of ATF executives (except ever have the respect of another hard working ATF Agent again).  All you have ever done is say 'no' to agents that is until it comes time to fire one and they you say 'yes'.  You are one of the ones who has to be buried in the reorganization.

Bill McMahon voted to get rid of Vince.  OK.  Let's review.  Bill McMahon is Bill Newell's first level supervisor.  Bill McMahon is in the chain of command for Fast and Furious.  Bill McMahon has supervised for years, John Torres, Bill Newell, Kelvin Crenshaw.  Bill McMahon could have fired any of the three, done ATF a service and been completely justified and supported.  

Instead his club members get protected and you stand by for the report on Vanilla Pudding Vind pulling Vince's badge and gun.  San Francisco SAC Herkins didn't even have the balls to be in the office and face up to a 25-year agent when they took his job.  Now that is ATF leadership.  Our future.  NOT!  
Vind, Herkins you guys have to be buried in the reorganization too.  Seriously.  Grow some balls.

Bill McMahon.  What happened to you?  Do you remember the day your balls fell off or did they just slowly disolve once you started drinking the headquarters KoolAid and you never really noticed they were gone?

Vince is going to shock the house with the details of his railroading.  As the truth comes out the embarassment to ATF will grow larger.  He'll have his gun and badge back with back pay soon enough.  

McMahon, you'll hopefully be sitting in a jail cell, broke after the Terry's take your money in a civil suit, and you can think about what a coward you turned out to be by supporting Fast and Furious.

Hey Bill.  We were going to let this one go but since you turned into a total douche, get ready to explain all your cool trips on ATF's dime where you dragged your girlfriend around.  Some to Europe too, huh.  You better have this covered and buttoned down tight because a whole lotta people know what you been up to, watched you do it, heard you talk about it, watched you cheat the G for your personal pleasure.  

Game on bitches!

[microscope]

From the L.A. Times:

Kenneth E. Melson, who has run the bureau for two years, is reportedly eager to testify to Congress about the extent of his and other officials' involvement in the operation, code-named Fast and Furious.

Melson does not want to be "the fall guy" for the program, under which ATF agents allowed straw purchasers to acquire more than 1,700 AK-47s and other high-powered rifles from Arizona gun dealers, the sources said. The idea was to track the guns to drug cartel leaders. But that goal proved elusive, and the guns turned up at shootings in Mexico, as well as at the slaying in Arizona of a U.S. Border Patrol agent in December.

"He is saying he won't go," said one source close to the situation, who asked for anonymity because high-level discussions with Melson remained fluid. "He has told them, 'I'm not going to be the fall guy on this.' "

Added a second source, who also requested anonymity: "He's resisting. He does not want to go."

Oh that's just super Ken.  Now that your ass is on the line your testicles drop and you all of sudden form a backbone to stand tall?

With everything going on how did you find the time to fire Agent Cefalu?  When we find out what attorneys on your staff orchestrated the whitewash frame job you did on him they are going to be looking for the door too.

[The Original Ralph]

sorry to hear about the dismissal, but guys, i'll offer the same suggestion here as i did earlier - ATF DOES NOT LIKE SUNLIGHT ON THEIR CONDUCT

i had an NFA examiner that was a horse's ass - even his own supervisor (Tracy Cardswell) at NFA branch was intimidated by him. His turn around time on my transfers were outrageous, dealer to dealer F3s taking 5-8 months. Finally we caught him having altered a form 3 we'd submitted, to change the application date only to cover his backside on how long he'd been sitting on the transfer applications. ON the advice of the one guy at ATF HQ i trust, i filed a complaint with OIG office of professional misconduct. Went the whole 9 yards, with the division director (Mary Jo Hughes) contacting me wanting details, and confirming to me that if the allegations proved true, it constituted a double felony violation of altering a fed document and falsifying a fed doc or making a false representation on a fed document.

she assured me i'd be transferred to another examiner while the investigation was conducted (i requested it for fear of retaliation of further delays on my transfer approvals). 18 weeks later, a total of 31 transfer apps had been denied ("device not shown registered to your firm" was the stated cause).

i learned a new chief had been named to NFA, Ken Houtchens - contacted him asking when i'd be given another examiner. He promised to look into it and would be geting back to me. 30 days later, after 2 followup calls to him with no response having been forthcoming, I decided to take another course.

i called the Washington Times display ad department, got a quote for a 1/2 page black/white display ad, contacted Houtchens again, leaving a msg that stated: "Mr Houtchens, halfway thru this msg you're going to have the impression i'm upset. Please sir, don't, that couldn't be further from the truth. I just wanted to get your opinion on something. I explained i'd just gotten off the phone with the washington times paper, display ad division, getting mechanicals and rates, and they'd recommended Monday thru Thursday for my ad, where i'd wanted to run it Friday, Sat& Sunday". I said "I'M GOING TO RUN A F--KING AD DESCRIBING HOW DYSFUNCTIONAL YOUR BRANCH IS" and was curious which days did he think would have the best impact."  Within 2 hours i had a return call, he was stuttering and arranging for one of his supervisors to call in to my office to go over the erroneously denied transfer apps, and that Mrs xxx would be my new examiner/

I know that wasn't as serious as this situation, but i'm telling you, get a quote on a 1/2 page to full page ad, mentioning 1/10th of the stuff on this board, with a link to cleanupatf.org

start a collection fund here on the board to cover the cost - just seeing that here i suspect will prompt some action on atf's part - again, ATF DOES NOT LIKE SUNLIGHT

that ad, if it makes it to press, will also put some pressure on ISSA, Grassley, and the dems on that panel that promisd the 3 agents testifying that there would be no whistleblower retaliation, to followup on their promise.

just a suggestion

btw, that NFA examiner that i filed the complaint on - no investigation was ever conducted, and he was promoted to supervisor about 9 months later

[GoodWorker]

Jay Dobyns, on 23 June 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

ATF served Special Agent Vince Cefalu with termination paperwork today.

What they have done is disguised reprisal and retaliation as something else to fire him.

What some of you may not know about Vince is that he was a United States Marine, a local police officer and U.S. Customs Agent before he came to ATF.  In spite of his sometimes callous methods of expressing himself he has never failed to speak the truth, represent for what is right, fight for justice, and; doing all in the face of those who have the power to take his job of 25 years.  

ATF has done everything within their power to break this agent.  They have been proactive in the destruction of his reputation, killed his career, ruined his personal finances and have had emmense negative influence on his personal relationships and family members.  Why?  Because he didn't go along to get along.  He didn't shut his mouth when ordered to.  He didn't sit back like a coward when he saw things being done wrong, unethically and illegally.  Now they are proposing to take the last thing they still have control over but, have yet to act on, his job.

I will say this from personal experience; Vince will stand in the path of a bullet for any good person and do so knowing the personal consequence could be grave but, at the same time being true to his character which is to stand up for people who can't or won't stand up for themselves. I have seen him do it on more than one occasion.  And, when I say "bullet" I mean a projectile, AND, all the other various means and methods of attack that could be characterized as a bullet.

I would simply ask that anyone who believes in those traits and/or those who have personally witnessed the risks he has gladly accepted to help them and help reform ATF to weigh in on his behalf.

Vince does not deserve this in any way.  It is an open demonstration of the corrupt arrogence of ATF management to ignore and defend those who have committed crimes as members of the agency but in turn, to attack Cefalu.  No better example of ATF's double-standards exists than what took place today.

Ken Melson, you own this one as well as your Office of Chief Counsel.  Shame on you and you attorneys for engaging in the retaliation you swore to America would not take place on your watch.

Ultimately why is Vince being fired.  Because he exposed corruption, blew the whistle and helped launch CleanUpATF.  This is ATF's payback.

God bless Vince Cefalu in his time of trouble.

Vince,
  You are a brave, courageous,and honorable man.  You have been wronged again and I want you to know that I am proud to call you my friend.  I am asking you to set up a PO Box that people can send you tokens of gratitude and apprecitation.  It is not over until it is over and this is far from over. I call on CNN, CBS, and all of the other media personnel to rally behind Vince in this act of injustice.  To all LE personnel reading this, "MAN DOWN! GET A PLAN TOGETHER TO GET HIM BACK UP ASAP"

[DiveMaster]

Ok, I am new on here. So, this may sound like I am a dumbass but what the hell are they saying "officially" that Vince Cefalu did to deserve firing. I have been around long enough to know about some fk'ed up stuff happening that did not warrant firing. After all, one can apparently construct a gloryhole in a hotel room while on travel status and all is well.......What gives?????????!!!!!!!!

I know the WHY behind this, just not the "OFFICIAL" reason that was given.

[CUATF Webmaster]

In my assessment, the best way to help Vince is to inundate the key players with phone calls, faxes and emails expressing outrage over this patently unlawful action. See this post for some key contact numbers.

[Concernedsup]

I have had the priviledge to work, drink, argue, party and have him as friend. This is beyond a travesty. While Vince is treated like this those who have lied go unpunished. The likes of Newell, Gillette et al go unpunished for now and their actions have cost lives. When will this madness end. Vince, my core brother, stay strong, fight the fight like you only can fight with the truth. You know your core brothers, from Miami to Atlanta from Louisiana to Chicago and all over the nation, will have your back in this fight.

[The Shadow]

This is a perfect example of a tyrannical regime that lacks personal accountability.  When you see the tide of opinion changing and the forces lining up for your ouster, hide behind the agency attorneys long enough to secure your own future.  Then destroy all personal enemies before using a golden parachute to exit.  Those you attack will have to fight for their very lives with their own personal funds against an immense, fully staffed bureaucracy.  The real offender without any accountability moves on to yet another title. Sociopath just has to be one of the s’ in SES.

Stand strong Vince, you are not alone.

[Epic Failure]

To all those that know Vince or have worked with him we have something in common.  He is gruff and nasty and rough around the edges.  We also know he is one hellava agent.  He may not dress like HQ wants him to or wear his hair the way they want him to but he it would be tough to find a more loyal or dedicated agent or partner.  I would take one Vince Cefalu over ten million Melson's Hoover's or Chait's.  The fight still wouldn't be fair.  Don't let the spin doctors confuse you.  Vince is not malconent.  He loves ATF and hates with a passion what has happened to his agency.

[SA FOG]

I agree with microscope - unf--king believable. Has the management in ATF totally lost their collective minds!!!!!  We're behind you Vince.

[CovertOne]

Could it have anything to do with this?:  

ATF agents describe fear of retaliation
http://articles.cnn....?_s=PM:POLITICS

Video:
http://www.cnn.com/v....agent.cnn.html

ATF management is counterfiet.  They are frauds!  They protect each other for felonies and slam the little guy.

Where is Senator Grassley with a letter to ATF like the one he sent for Dodson?  Do or do not whistleblower protections exist?  Does the No Fear Act mean anything?

ATF Agents are behind you Vince.  Never stop fighting the machine!

Jay Dobyns, on 23 June 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

ATF served Special Agent Vince Cefalu with termination paperwork today.

What they have done is disguised reprisal and retaliation as something else to fire him.

What some of you may not know about Vince is that he was a United States Marine, a local police officer and U.S. Customs Agent before he came to ATF.  In spite of his sometimes callous methods of expressing himself he has never failed to speak the truth, represent for what is right, fight for justice, and; doing all in the face of those who have the power to take his job of 25 years.  

ATF has done everything within their power to break this agent.  They have been proactive in the destruction of his reputation, killed his career, ruined his personal finances and have had emmense negative influence on his personal relationships and family members.  Why?  Because he didn't go along to get along.  He didn't shut his mouth when ordered to.  He didn't sit back like a coward when he saw things being done wrong, unethically and illegally.  Now they are proposing to take the last thing they still have control over but, have yet to act on, his job.

I will say this from personal experience; Vince will stand in the path of a bullet for any good person and do so knowing the personal consequence could be grave but, at the same time being true to his character which is to stand up for people who can't or won't stand up for themselves. I have seen him do it on more than one occasion.  And, when I say "bullet" I mean a projectile, AND, all the other various means and methods of attack that could be characterized as a bullet.

I would simply ask that anyone who believes in those traits and/or those who have personally witnessed the risks he has gladly accepted to help them and help reform ATF to weigh in on his behalf.

Vince does not deserve this in any way.  It is an open demonstration of the corrupt arrogence of ATF management to ignore and defend those who have committed crimes as members of the agency but in turn, to attack Cefalu.  No better example of ATF's double-standards exists than what took place today.

Ken Melson, you own this one as well as your Office of Chief Counsel.  Shame on you and you attorneys for engaging in the retaliation you swore to America would not take place on your watch.

Ultimately why is Vince being fired.  Because he exposed corruption, blew the whistle and helped launch CleanUpATF.  This is ATF's payback.

God bless Vince Cefalu in his time of trouble.

[microscope]

Un-F-ing Believable!

With all the incestous subordinate f***ing going on in HQ.  McLemore lying under oath and getting a free ride.  Horace, Crenshaw, Torres, Richardson, Van der Werf, Carter, not to mention our current cast of criminals who are being defended to the point where ATF refuses to answer congressional subpoena's and they still have jobs and they choose to fire Vince?

Did he murder someone?  Did he help murder someone?  Did he lie under oath a bunch of times?  Is he in contempt of congress?  Did he get caught with his d**k in a glory hole?

Stand tall Vincent Cefalu.  ATF just bit off way more than they can chew.

Hey Melson, could your timing be any worse?

[Jay Dobyns]

ATF served Special Agent Vince Cefalu with termination paperwork today.

What they have done is disguised reprisal and retaliation as something else to fire him.

What some of you may not know about Vince is that he was a United States Marine, a local police officer and U.S. Customs Agent before he came to ATF.  In spite of his sometimes callous methods of expressing himself he has never failed to speak the truth, represent for what is right, fight for justice, and; doing all in the face of those who have the power to take his job of 25 years.  

ATF has done everything within their power to break this agent.  They have been proactive in the destruction of his reputation, killed his career, ruined his personal finances and have had emmense negative influence on his personal relationships and family members.  Why?  Because he didn't go along to get along.  He didn't shut his mouth when ordered to.  He didn't sit back like a coward when he saw things being done wrong, unethically and illegally.  Now they are proposing to take the last thing they still have control over but, have yet to act on, his job.

I will say this from personal experience; Vince will stand in the path of a bullet for any good person and do so knowing the personal consequence could be grave but, at the same time being true to his character which is to stand up for people who can't or won't stand up for themselves. I have seen him do it on more than one occasion.  And, when I say "bullet" I mean a projectile, AND, all the other various means and methods of attack that could be characterized as a bullet.

I would simply ask that anyone who believes in those traits and/or those who have personally witnessed the risks he has gladly accepted to help them and help reform ATF to weigh in on his behalf.

Vince does not deserve this in any way.  It is an open demonstration of the corrupt arrogence of ATF management to ignore and defend those who have committed crimes as members of the agency but in turn, to attack Cefalu.  No better example of ATF's double-standards exists than what took place today.

Ken Melson, you own this one as well as your Office of Chief Counsel.  Shame on you and you attorneys for engaging in the retaliation you swore to America would not take place on your watch.

Ultimately why is Vince being fired.  Because he exposed corruption, blew the whistle and helped launch CleanUpATF.  This is ATF's payback.

God bless Vince Cefalu in his time of trouble.