However, as a matter of unofficial ATF policy, a vastly lower standard of performance and ethical accountability applies to management officials at all levels. The following excerpts from sworn deposition testimony given by an active ATF Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge and Senior Executive Service candidate, glaringly illustrate an extraordinary absence of basic competence, honesty, or both. Nevertheless, this individual is reportedly being seriously considered for even higher management posts within ATF. In such a position, this person would be called upon to make critical policy decisions affecting public and agent safety, to testify under oath before congressional or other bodies, and effectively represent the Bureau and Department of Justice in a wide range of serious matters.
However, as will be quickly apparent, this man, the number 2 boss of a major ATF Field Division, testified under oath in a manner that can only be described as pathetically embarrassing, unprofessional, incompetent and utterly lacking in basic credibility. The sheer number of "I don't know", I have no recollection" and "I don't recall" answers (over 150 within a single deposition session of just a few hours involving matters that were under this manager's direct and recent control) is bizarre and disturbing. Any ATF field Agent who demonstrated such a profound ignorance of ATF policy and crucial matters within his direct sphere of professional responsibility, would no longer be carrying a gun or badge. In fact, he would probably be flipping burgers for a living, and rightfully so.
When reading this deposition transcript, it is important to keep in mind that all of the questions asked and answered related to:
- Actions, events and policy decisions that directly involved the manager giving the sworn testimony;
- Actions, events and policy decisions involving a veteran Special Agent who was under the testifying manager's direct and immediate supervision. While under the manager's supervision, that agent led a major federal felony criminal investigation involving multiple federal and local law enforcement agencies with which the manager had numerous contacts;
- Recent and substantial violations of a wide range of mandatory Bureau policies and procedures that the manager was personally responsible for knowing about and enforcing.
Q. Do you recall at any time [Special Agent XXX] coming to you, personally talking to you about his concern that he was being treated differently because of his age?
A. I had no recollection of any such act, and if he had, that's the type of thing that I would remember. I would have also done something about it, too. People trying to tug the investigation in one direction or another. And it concerned me.
Q. Did he talk to you at that time about the police department trying to get a state wiretap?
A. I do not recall, but I do know that that was discussed during the course of investigation. I don't know if we discussed that during that particular conversation.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] tell you that he had - he opposed the task force trying to get a state wiretap?
A. I don't specifically remember.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] tell you that most of the arguments were, or discussions for which he might have used profanity or been aggressive about had to do with his opposition to the task force using state wiretaps in the PD's office?
A. I don't have -- as I commented before, I don't have a specific recollection of the issue.
Q. Did you consider the possibility that the Police Department and/or the XXXXX County District Attorney's office was complaining about [Special Agent XXX] behavior because of his opposition to their attempting to get a state wire tap, or his opposition or complaint that they contacted an ATF informant behind his back?
A. I can't answer that with a simple yes or no.
Q. So did you consider that possibility that the police department and the DA's office was complaining about him more to get him off or out of his case manager or case agent position in that task force?
A. I don't know.
Q. So after -- was there anything else that [Special Agent XXX] told you about this conversation with the Chief of Police?
A. I think that -- I don't specifically recall.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] tell you that [Mr. XXX] had told [Special Agent XXX] that he didn't realize that that e-mail was going to management, he thought it was only going to so-called the street agents?
A. He may have. He may have.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] tell you that [Mr. XXX] X told [Special Agent XXX]that it was to bust their chops or to make fun of them for not showing up?
A. I don't remember that specifically.
Q. The question was whether you were ever told by [Special Agent XXX] that [Mr. XXX] said that in joke to basically bust their chops for not showing up at a convention?
A. I don't recall ever being told that this was a joke, and nobody in LA division perceived it as a joke, and anybody in management that read it didn't perceive it as a joke.
Q. Who did you talk to in the LA division other than XXXX about their perception of what that
A. My recollection is one of them during the casual -- at least one of them was, I think, XXX...
Q. The other person you said you talked to was not a supervisor?
A. I think I talked to one or two other people who were not supervisors.
Q. But you don't recall their names at this time?
A. No.
Q. To your knowledge, did the agency lose money or waste money because someone didn't show up at that convention?
A. I don't know.
Q. Is it true that the content of [Special Agent XXX] e-mail -- was it true that someone failed to show up when they should have?
A. I don't know if that is the case.
Q. Could you estimate for me how many special agents and supervisors are in the LA field division?
A. I don't know the answer to that.
Q. Was it clearly in excess of XXX?
A. It could be.
Q. Did you ever tell [Special Agent XXX] that [Special Agent XXX] had not intended to send it to the entire division but only to a few agents?
A. I don't recall. I mean, I guess I could have during some period of time, but I don't specifically.
Q. Do you have a recollection today that you discussed that issue?
A. I don't. It could have come up during the conversation.
Q. Do you recall any other specific complaints about [Special Agent XXX] conduct, things that he had done? I know you talked about hostility and vulgarity and abrasive thing, but I'm asking if there's any specific things that he hit anybody, anything like that?
A. During that meeting?
Q. At that meeting, the November XX meeting.
A. At that meeting, I don't remember any other specifics that could have been discussed.
Q. This incident about not smoking or [Special Agent XXX] smoking was told to you by XXX?
A. I think so.
Q. Do you know whether [Special Agent XXX] asked [Special Agent XXX] about that smoking incident?
A. I don't know if I did. I would assume that he could have.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] report back to you that he had, in fact, talked to [Special Agent XXX] about that smoking altercation?
A. If he did, I don't recall it, but it's possible. It was -- it's possible he did.
Q. Regarding that smoking altercation, do you recall that [Special Agent XXX] was alleged to have grabbed his crotch and said, "smoke this"?
A. I don't recall anything like that.
Q. Do you recall --
A. I don't recall [Special Agent XXX] being like that.
Q. But you don't recall telling the SAC that Mr. XXX had grabbed his crotch and said, "smoke this," to somebody from the XXXXX police department?
A. I don't recall that, no, I'm sorry.
Back on the record. Mr. XXX, you're still under oath.
A. Okay, I would like to --
Go ahead.
A. I'd like to clarify the last answer I gave. Regarding the smoking comment. I'm not...
Q. Did you hear it from [Special Agent XXX]?
A. I don't recall where I heard the comment from.
Q. Do you recall who made the allegation that [Special Agent XXX] made those comments?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Did he talk to you during that briefing that he had opposed the police department's attempt to get a state wiretap?
A. I don't know. I don't believe so.
Q. Do you recall [Special Agent XXX] ever telling you that the police department and DA's office were going to blame him for things because of his complaints about their conduct of that investigation?
A. No.
Q. Do you know whether Officer XXX was ever reinstated to that task force?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know whether a state wiretap was actually achieved in that XXXXXX investigation?
A. I don't know. Eventually we did part ways.
Q. When did you part ways with the task force?
A. I don't know.
Q. Was it sometime in early XXXX?
A. It could have been.
Q. Was it a few weeks after or a few months after?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Who was it that told the task force that ATF was pulling out?
A. Who told the task force?
Q. Yes.
A. I don't know.
Q. So what was it specifically that you were not seeing eye to eye on?
A. I don't recall there being one specific issue.
Q. After you parted ways, isn't it true that ATF undercover agents continued to be involved in undercover activities with the target of the XXXXX investigation?
A. That may be correct. The American Graffiti case occurred under my watch and that was with XXXXX as the supervisor.
Q. Did XXXXXXX talk to you about taking Mr. XXXXX off the Graffiti operation?
A. I don't have a recollection of that.
Q. During the time of the Graffiti investigation, [Special Agent XXX] was an and then it was -- what was his grade when he started out in the Graffiti investigation; do you know?
A. I do not know.
Q. Do you know whether he got a promotion during that time?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you talk to [Special Agent XXX] about that same evaluation?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Do you recall whether [Special Agent XXX] changed the language of that evaluation?
A. I don't recall.
Q. The question is, do you recall that transfer taking place?
A. I do recall the transfer. I don't believe so. I don't recall him being -- I don't recall that.
Q. When you talked with [Special Agent XXX] on the telephone did you always use your work cell phone?
A. I don't know.
Q. Was [Special Agent XXX] going to be assigned to that initiative with the Sacramento police department?
A. I don't know what XXXXXX envisioned.
Q. Was there any specific investigation that that person would be assigned to? I mean, [Special Agent XXX] would be assigned to when he was transferred?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] identify a specific work that he needed Mr. XXXXX to do?
A. I believe so.
Q. What was that?
A. I don't know. I don't recall what it was.
Q. Do you recall whether that work was going to be done in the Sacramento field office?
A. No, I don't know what that assignment was.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] tell you that whatever assignments [Special Agent XXX] may have in the Sacramento field office, would be office work only, that is, he wouldn't be outside the office?
A. I don't remember what the assignment was, so the answer is no, I don't recall.
Q. Did you have any concern about his time and attendance, actually putting in work hours?
A. I don't recall that, but it could have been an issue for XXXXXX. It may have been one of his
Q. Let's stick to the transfer for now. Who specifically at the ELRB did you talk to about the transfer?
A. I don't specifically recall because there were a number of people coming and going, so I'm not sure.
Q. What were you checking with the ELRB about regarding the transfer?
A. I don't know if I checked with them as much as let them know what the field division was doing.
Q. When was [Special Agent XXX] placed back in Stockton?
A. I don't know.
Q. So [Special Agent XXX] XXXX was responding to your suggestion that [Special Agent XXX] XXX be transferred to Sacramento?
A. I think that's probably accurate.
Q. Did you then decide how [Special Agent XXX] would be closely supervised by someone in Houston?
A. I don't recall that, having that specific conversation
Q. Are you aware as to whether [Special Agent XXX] had any discussion with people in Houston about detailing Mr. XXXX to Houston?
A. I don't know.
Q. Who at ATF headquarters made that decision?
A. I don't know.
Q. Among the people at ATF headquarters who would have the authority to do that?
A. I don't know.
Q. Was [Special Agent XXX] name provided as a person who would go to Houston detail from his field division?
A. I don't know, I would assume so.
Q. Was someone else from this field division sent on that Houston detail?
A. Not that I'm aware of. Headquarters required us to submit a name.
Q. Who at headquarters required that?
A. I'm not sure. I think the request came originally from field management staff.
Q. Who is your contact in the field management staff?
A. I don't know who it was at the time.
Q. Did you have a conversation with XXXXXX regarding Mr. XXXXX detail to Houston?
A. I don't specifically recall. I think I would have to answer, no.
Q. Did it ask for just one recommendation or any number of recommendations?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Did it ask for a specific number of volunteers?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Did it tell you how many people would be detailed under this message to Houston?
A. I don't recall.
Q. What was your understanding? Were there people to be assigned to Houston detail first to come from volunteers or from the recommended names?
A. I don't know.
Q. So when you say that he is threatening to other people, you're not saying that in a safety sense; is that true?
A. I can't answer that with a yes or no. Threatening can come in different shapes and forms. You can intimidate somebody and scare the bejesus out of them.
Q. Tell me specifically what people who have told you that [Special Agent XXX] intimidated them or threatened them in some way. What it is that [Special Agent XXX] did to cause that intimidation or threat?
A. I believe it was the general way he carried himself in regards to his interpersonal relationships with them.
Q. What do you mean by that? Specifically, what did they tell you that he did or related to that relationship or how he conducted himself?
A. That I heard things such as he's kooky
Q. Did you investigate further or interview anyone who called him kooky?
A. I did not conduct an investigation.
Q. Is it true that the XXXX Police Department and the XXXXX County DA was upset because you arrested one of the targets they intended to do a wire tap on?
A. I don't know if this is true or not.
Q. Do you know that the police department or DA's office was upset because you had arrested someone that they had wanted to collect evidence from?
A. I don't know that's the case.
Q. Did the police department or DA's office have any problems with the arrest that ATF made in that investigation?
A. I don't know.
Q. What is the criteria to receive a medical exception?
A. I do not know the exact criteria.
Q. Are you aware that [Special Agent XXX] had actually qualified for his weapon using the FAT system?
A. That he had? Yes. No, I was not aware of that.
Q. What does FAT stand for anyway, F-A-T?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you consider [Special Agent XXX] request to use the FAT system to qualify for his weapon a request for reasonable accommodation for his medical condition?
A. I don't know how to answer that.
Q. In your view, what connection is there between workers' comp and providing reasonable accommodation?
A. I can't answer that question.
Q. Did you contact legal counsel about [Special Agent XXX] XX using the FAT system to qualify for his weapon?
A. Can you repeat the question again, please?
Q. Did you contact legal counsel about [Special Agent XXX] XX request to use the FAT system to qualify for his weapon?
A. I don't recall if it was myself or somebody else.
Q. Did he report to you about any contact he had with legal counsel about [Special Agent XXX] XXX request to use the FAT system to qualify?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Did you contact and talk to the Employee Labor Relations Branch about [Special Agent XXX] request to use FAT to qualify?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Why did you not get that information?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] XXX ever tell you whether or not he received that information or not?
A. I don't have any recollection whether he did one way or another.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] tell you that he had requested the information but [Special Agent XXX] XXX doctor never provided it?
A. I don't recall. I don't recall anything of that nature.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] XXX tell you that he had contacted Mr. XXXXX doctor on this matter?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Did [Special Agent XXX] tell you that he instructed Mr. XXXXX to contact [Special Agent XXX] XXX doctor?
A. I don't recall him saying anything like that to me.
Q. Was [Special Agent XXX] XXX given [Special Agent XXX] doctor's information about his condition and request for FATS?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did anyone at ATF headquarters tell you that they had asked [Special Agent XXX] XXX doctor for more medical information to see if he should qualify to use the FAT system?
A. I've already answered this question a number of times, and the answer is, I don't know.
Q. Are there a number of laws that require reasonable accommodation to be given to disabled employees?
A. I don't know if it's one law or multiple laws, I'm not in an area of expertise for me.
Q. Do you recall what that law is?
A. Not offhand, no.
Q. To your knowledge did ELRB ever contact Mr. XXXXX about using FAT to qualify?
A. I do not know.
Q. To your knowledge did ATF legal counsel ever contact [Special Agent XXX] to discuss using FAT to qualify?
A. I do not know.
Q. To your knowledge did OWCP ever contact Mr. XXXXXX to determine if he should use FAT to qualify?
A. I do not know.
Q. Finally, do you know whether [Special Agent XXX] XXX ever talked with [Special Agent XXX] about using FAT to qualify?
A. I don't know -- I don't know.
Q. One of the issues is that in around October th, , [Special Agent XXX] was terminated. Do you recall that event?
A. I do.
Q. Were you involved in the decision to terminate [Special Agent XXX] X?
A. No, I was not.
Q. Do you know who made that decision?
A. I don't know the specific person who made that decision, no, I don't.
Q. Whether medical documents or e-mail, just information or notice to you that [Special Agent XXX] is clear to return to work but he could not do -- he has some physical limitation so could not do all of his special agent duties?
A. I don't have any recollection of that.
Q. To your understanding are you prohibited from modifying the range of full special agent duties to accommodate a special agent with disabilities?
A. I'm not aware of ATF or government policy in that regard about modifying a special agent's duties.
Q. Has anyone from headquarters asked you to consider modifying [Special Agent XXX] special agent duties to accommodate his physical disabilities?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Did anyone in the San Francisco division discuss with you whether [Special Agent XXX] XXX special agent duties could be modified to accommodate his physical disabilities?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Do you recall receiving a copy of that policy from [Special Agent XXX] last year?
A. No.
Q. Did you discuss with [Special Agent XXX] providing reasonable accommodation in the form of limited duty positions for [Special Agent XXX] X?
A. Not that I can recall.
Q. Do you recall talking with [Special Agent XXX] regarding providing limited duty positions -- a limited duty position to [Special Agent XXX] as an accommodation?
A. I don't.
Q. Were you asked as to what other duties Mr. XXXXX could perform while in the San Francisco division?
A. Was I asked by who?
Q. Anyone.
A. I don't recall having any conversation in that regards with anybody.
Q. Who was the first person who suggested that Mr. XXXXX should be answering phones?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did anybody during the discussion with Miss XXXXXX and Miss XXXXX or [Special Agent XXX] talk about the potential for [Special Agent XXX] humiliation of being assigned that job? Did they talk about that at all?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Did they talk about any impact tha
