200 replies to this topic

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[PetePark1811]

My gosh, you are truly "Special." I placed a post several days ago stating that the FBI was under investigation for one of their CIs being the main purchaser of firearms under the F&F Forum. It was only an allegation at this point and they were being questioned by Issa. Seriously, are you retarded. Did your mommy drop you on your head. I ask you to stick to the fact and you use bad grammar to "play mind games" with me (ha, ha, ha). I love wannabes how have never, ever done a damn thing their entire sad lives. Go back to your mom's basement, eat a hot pocket, poop your pants and brag about your IQ of 144. Just sad. I have tried making jokes, but I think anything beyond a fart reference goes right over your head. Too bad you went full retard. Never go full retard.

uh huh.
Who wouldaguessedit. The doper doesnt like evidence.

mY guess is your dumb ass wouldnt accept it even if someone handed you the court paperwork itself.
I'll quote any goddam source I feel to quote there, my anal retentive moron.

Ive already proven you wrong.
The FBI IS suspect of complicity in F/F....that you cannot accept that fact is irrelevant.

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[PetePark1811]

No. This is an excellent use of a news article to support your theory. This should be easy to confirm. You have the names of these two defendants from the indictments? Please list them. Also, in the indictment, it should document their crimes and exact dates. You should have started with this news story rather than a link to something that had nothing to do with your theory. Since you have been living this investigation for the past nine months, I would guess you have copies of the indictments. Make your case with facts. I am guessing that they were in the gun shop, didn't fill out a 4473 and were part of a straw purchase. Take a little time and prove me wrong. Don't quote other news stories that use unnamed sources and editorials. Use the indictments. Now, that being said, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they sealed the indictments. I want to see factual discussions. Not crazy theories supported by nothing more than other conspiracy theories. I will now wait for your response in which you will insult me and not actually respond to the posting. I will be happy to go back to the insults. They are a lot of fun.

Still nothing to say about this, eh ?



Again...

[Excalibur-2112]

Still nothing to say about this, eh ?



Again...

However, according to court records reviewed by Fox News, two of the 20 defendants indicted in the Fast and Furious investigation have felony convictions and criminal backgrounds that experts say, at the very least, should have delayed them buying a single firearm. Instead, the duo bought dozens of guns on multiple occasions while federal officials watched on closed-circuit cameras.

Under the failed anti-gun trafficking program, straw buyers -- those who legally purchase guns and illegally sell them to a third party -- were allowed to buy guns, many of which were sold to Mexican drug cartel members and subsequently lost. Related to the case, the U.S. government in May charged Manuel Osorio-Arellanes with killing Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry last year using a gun purchased through the program.

Court documents show the breakdown involves suspects Jacob Wayne Chambers, 21, and Sean Christopher Stewart, 28, both of Phoenix. Police arrested Chambers for felony burglary and trafficking stolen property in 2008, a year before he began buying more than 70 guns that ended up in the hands of the Sinaloa cartel. Stewart pled guilty to resisting arrest and criminal damage in 2001 and was arrested on drug charges in 2010. He was also charged with violating an order of protection and a local municipal court issued a warrant for his arrest. Stewart purchased 290 weapons.

"You cannot sanction the violation of federal law by enabling or co-enabling prohibited persons, which includes felony convictions, from purchasing firearms," said Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., a former federal prosecutor and a member of the House Government Oversight and Reform Committee, which is investigating the botched ATF operation. Gowdy said he would discuss the apparent violation with committee chairman, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.

When asked about the breakdown, Stephen Fischer, a spokesman for the NICS System, said the FBI had no comment. However, an ATF agent who worked on the Fast and Furious investigation, told Fox News that NICS officials called the ATF in Phoenix whenever their suspects tried to buy a gun. That conversation typically led to a green light for the buyers, when it should have stopped them.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1h8GKoszP

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[PetePark1811]

You are a Puppet Master. I have gone down one path, but have been enjoying your travel down several paths of insanity. At the end of the day, I will just sit here and laugh at you. I will pray for the Terry family, but again, just laugh at you. Your use of bad grammar to lure me into your trap is sheer genius. Next, you should poop your pants to really teach me a lesson.

Friend, YOU dont even know what the hell youre trying to say.
You started on one point and have gone down a couple paths here trying to save some face.

I have noticed a tendency of some who are getting their ass spanked in a discussion to start correcting grammar and spelling
Figures youd have to turn to that.
I dont correct my grammar or my spelling because it lures idiots like you into correcting them for me, thus helping me show just how desperate your sort is and what you'll resort to in order to save face.


Again...

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[Excalibur-2112]

Seriously, your grammar is so bad it just cracks me up. I don't even know what you are trying to say. I am asking for a Special Prosecutor and you are going to crazy town. Remember, the lotion goes in the basket. Thanks for standing up to ATF corruption. How did you know I was only 3' tall and a janitor. Oh, that right, you are a genius with an IQ of 144. Stick to the facts Sherlock. There are plenty.

Friend, YOU dont even know what the hell youre trying to say.
You started on one point and have gone down a couple paths here trying to save some face.

I have noticed a tendency of some who are getting their ass spanked in a discussion to start correcting grammar and spelling
Figures youd have to turn to that.
I dont correct my grammar or my spelling because it lures idiots like you into correcting them for me, thus helping me show just how desperate your sort is and what you'll resort to in order to save face.


Again...

However, according to court records reviewed by Fox News, two of the 20 defendants indicted in the Fast and Furious investigation have felony convictions and criminal backgrounds that experts say, at the very least, should have delayed them buying a single firearm. Instead, the duo bought dozens of guns on multiple occasions while federal officials watched on closed-circuit cameras.

Under the failed anti-gun trafficking program, straw buyers -- those who legally purchase guns and illegally sell them to a third party -- were allowed to buy guns, many of which were sold to Mexican drug cartel members and subsequently lost. Related to the case, the U.S. government in May charged Manuel Osorio-Arellanes with killing Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry last year using a gun purchased through the program.

Court documents show the breakdown involves suspects Jacob Wayne Chambers, 21, and Sean Christopher Stewart, 28, both of Phoenix. Police arrested Chambers for felony burglary and trafficking stolen property in 2008, a year before he began buying more than 70 guns that ended up in the hands of the Sinaloa cartel. Stewart pled guilty to resisting arrest and criminal damage in 2001 and was arrested on drug charges in 2010. He was also charged with violating an order of protection and a local municipal court issued a warrant for his arrest. Stewart purchased 290 weapons.

"You cannot sanction the violation of federal law by enabling or co-enabling prohibited persons, which includes felony convictions, from purchasing firearms," said Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., a former federal prosecutor and a member of the House Government Oversight and Reform Committee, which is investigating the botched ATF operation. Gowdy said he would discuss the apparent violation with committee chairman, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.

When asked about the breakdown, Stephen Fischer, a spokesman for the NICS System, said the FBI had no comment. However, an ATF agent who worked on the Fast and Furious investigation, told Fox News that NICS officials called the ATF in Phoenix whenever their suspects tried to buy a gun. That conversation typically led to a green light for the buyers, when it should have stopped them.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1h8GKoszP

[PetePark1811]

Seriously, your grammar is so bad it just cracks me up. I don't even know what you are trying to say. I am asking for a Special Prosecutor and you are going to crazy town. Remember, the lotion goes in the basket. Thanks for standing up to ATF corruption. How did you know I was only 3' tall and a janitor. Oh, that right, you are a genius with an IQ of 144. Stick to the facts Sherlock. There are plenty.

Sorry pal but you have yet to PROVE that NONE of these buyers were ineligible to purchase guns legally.
You keep saying maybe but the FACT is that the FBI HAS BEEN INCLUDED now in the investigation after realizing that they HAD to pass a NICS check.

All I see is a desperate little man who came in here and attacked those who are speaking out against BATFE corruption....who was shot down in flames...and then diverted with red herring bullshit just to save face.

Move along, youre taking up valuable oxygen....

[Excalibur-2112]

However, according to court records reviewed by Fox News, two of the 20 defendants indicted in the Fast and Furious investigation have felony convictions and criminal backgrounds that experts say, at the very least, should have delayed them buying a single firearm. Instead, the duo bought dozens of guns on multiple occasions while federal officials watched on closed-circuit cameras.

Under the failed anti-gun trafficking program, straw buyers -- those who legally purchase guns and illegally sell them to a third party -- were allowed to buy guns, many of which were sold to Mexican drug cartel members and subsequently lost. Related to the case, the U.S. government in May charged Manuel Osorio-Arellanes with killing Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry last year using a gun purchased through the program.

Court documents show the breakdown involves suspects Jacob Wayne Chambers, 21, and Sean Christopher Stewart, 28, both of Phoenix. Police arrested Chambers for felony burglary and trafficking stolen property in 2008, a year before he began buying more than 70 guns that ended up in the hands of the Sinaloa cartel. Stewart pled guilty to resisting arrest and criminal damage in 2001 and was arrested on drug charges in 2010. He was also charged with violating an order of protection and a local municipal court issued a warrant for his arrest. Stewart purchased 290 weapons.

"You cannot sanction the violation of federal law by enabling or co-enabling prohibited persons, which includes felony convictions, from purchasing firearms," said Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., a former federal prosecutor and a member of the House Government Oversight and Reform Committee, which is investigating the botched ATF operation. Gowdy said he would discuss the apparent violation with committee chairman, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.

When asked about the breakdown, Stephen Fischer, a spokesman for the NICS System, said the FBI had no comment. However, an ATF agent who worked on the Fast and Furious investigation, told Fox News that NICS officials called the ATF in Phoenix whenever their suspects tried to buy a gun. That conversation typically led to a green light for the buyers, when it should have stopped them.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1h8GKoszP

Oh...Im sorry pete...I realize that youre not actually interested in any evidence.

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[PetePark1811]

You truly are special. Does your mom still make you wear a football helmet on the short bus. The argument we have been having is over the simple fact that the gun smugglers weren't prohibited. You choose to ignore this simple little fact and go somewhere else when you can't make a legitimate response. You were making the accusation that the FBI was perverting the NICS and I ask you for proof. Maybe they were, but not actual proof. Your response was less than stellar. Your link, that is supposed to support your crazy theory, just talks about the FBI being questioned in regards to a possible FBI informant buying guns to smuggle to Mexico. No actual proof, just congress asking questions. It was nuts. You imply that I am standing up for F&F. I state that it was a horrible plan from the start. To be honest, you are doing more to expose the true facts of the case with your insane responses. For that, I thank you. For the last time, there is plenty to get mad about here. But let's just stick to the facts, not crazy theories based on nothing more than the voices in your head. Now go put the lotion on.

[b]Here ya go Pete.
WHEN you get done with all this let me know because I have probably a thousand more or so


http://www.nypost.co...N#ixzz1fgxaKffj








http://www.cbsnews.c...tag=mncol;lst;1





http://www.washingto...ning-hypocrisy/

http://www.nationalr...r-frank-miniter

http://www.foxnews.c...o-reveal-depth/


http://www.blogtalkr...-shea-king-show


http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4369


More GunWalker links;
A.G. Eric Holder Briefed on Fast & Furious in July 2010
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5317

“…implicates involvement by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano in the scandal…”
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5126

“LaPierre Calls for Special Fast & Furious Prosecutor”
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5116

“Fast & Furious goes all the way to the White House”
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5008

“Gun Walker: It Must Have Been Eric Holder”
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5002

Wayne LaPierre: NRA Files Lawsuit Against BATFE
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4983

Did the White House know?
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4947

http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4936

http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4936
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4925
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4816
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4819
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4804
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4794
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4741
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4723
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4716
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4587
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4704
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4700
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4472
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4413
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4471
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4413
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4389
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4387
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4122
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4182
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4152
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4318
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4319
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4263
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4270
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4255
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4207
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4202
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4204
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4184
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4177
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4169
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4175
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4168
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4162
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4149
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4131
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4130
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4119
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4112
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4113
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4101
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4082

[Excalibur-2112]

Here ya go Pete.
WHEN you get done with all this let me know because I have probably a thousand more or so

Facts are STUBBORN Things, Knowledge of the Connection Between Agent Terry’s Death and Fast and Furious

Setting the Record Straight on the Justice Department Oversight Hearing
It is clear, however, that multiple officials from multiple agencies knew almost immediately of the connection between Fast and Furious and Agent Terry’s death, including Deputy Attorney General Gary Grindler. The Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security have failed to adequately explain why Attorney General Holder and Secretary Napolitano allegedly remained ignorant of that connection.
http://www.grassley....geID_1502=38018

http://www.nypost.co...N#ixzz1fgxaKffj

Issa Presses DOJ Official on False Statement to Congress in Fast and Furious Probe
On February 4, 2011, Weich stated the following in letter to Senator Chuck Grassley (R-IA) who had asked if allegations that officials had intentionally allowed criminals to guns had been “walked” in Operation Fast and Furious:

“ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico.”

Evidence gathered during the course of the congressional investigation into Operation Fast and Furious has shown that this statement was untrue – ATF, in allowing guns to walk, did not make every effort to interdict them and prevent their transfer to Mexico. Evidence gathered in the investigation has also shown that senior Justice Department officials knew at the time Weich made his statement in February that it was untrue.

“Mr. Weich, as you are well aware, it is a crime to knowingly make false statements to Congress,” Chairman Issa writes in his letter to Weich.

http://issa.house.go...leases&Itemid=4

http://www.cbsnews.c...tag=mncol;lst;1





http://www.washingto...ning-hypocrisy/

http://www.nationalr...r-frank-miniter

http://www.foxnews.c...o-reveal-depth/


http://www.blogtalkr...-shea-king-show


http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4369


More GunWalker links;
A.G. Eric Holder Briefed on Fast & Furious in July 2010
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5317

“…implicates involvement by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano in the scandal…”
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5126

“LaPierre Calls for Special Fast & Furious Prosecutor”
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5116

“Fast & Furious goes all the way to the White House”
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5008

“Gun Walker: It Must Have Been Eric Holder”
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/5002

Wayne LaPierre: NRA Files Lawsuit Against BATFE
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4983

Did the White House know?
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4947

http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4936

http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4936
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4925
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4816
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4819
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4804
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4794
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4741
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4723
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4716
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4587
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4704
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4700
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4472
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4413
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4471
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4413
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4389
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4387
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4122
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4182
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4152
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4318
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4319
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4263
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4270
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4255
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4207
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4202
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4204
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4184
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4177
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4169
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4175
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4168
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4162
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4149
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4131
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4130
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4119
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4112
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4113
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4101
http://home.nra.org/...ideoModule/4082

[Excalibur-2112]

I have effectively refuted every claim in question.

Dont make me laugh, pal.
You clearly dont comprehend the meaning of the word 'refute'.
All youve done is spewed out your uneducated opinion...nothing more.

I asked you to stick to the facts and you went off the deep end.

I have presented the facts. And youve done NOTHING to ACTUALLY refute them but jabber on incoherently.

[Zorro]

en·cour·age
   [en-kur-ij]

verb (used with object), -aged, -ag·ing.

1. to inspire with courage, spirit, or confidence: His coach encouraged him throughout the marathon race to keep on running.

2. to stimulate by assistance, approval, etc.: One of the chief duties of a teacher is to encourage students.

3. to promote, advance, or foster: Poverty often encourages crime.


Synonyms
1. embolden, hearten, reassure. 2. urge; support, aid, help.

Antonyms
1. discourage, dishearten.

Loads of info to keep track of, so here's a flashabck of 8 months back, compliments of CBS:


CBS News from 04/14:

http://www.cbsnews.c...tag=mncol;lst;6

Link to the e-mails:

http://www.cbsnews.c...ain;contentBody

[PetePark1811]

I have effectively refuted every claim in question. You are just too "smart" with your IQ of 144 to realize it. I asked you to stick to the facts and you went off the deep end. Golf sure didn't last long. I guess Wii putt putt doesn't take long. Does your mom limit your time on the Wii? I agree that F&F was a horrible plan from the start. I only ask you stick to facts, not to fairy tale wishes. Don't let anyone tell you that Santa Clause isn't real. You are a very special boy.

Feel free to actually refute any of my claims....if and when you think you can.

[Excalibur-2112]

I guess I will have to go work on the 5th floor since IQ doesn't think I can cut it. I really thought I had him fooled. If only he didn't possess an IQ of 144. Too smart for me.

Feel free to actually refute any of my claims....if and when you think you can.

[Excalibur-2112]

I am trying to picture you and it keeps coming up as a guy living in his mom's basement with a foil hat to keep the satellites from scanning his brain.

Yeah pal....me, the entire NRA which is millions of gun owners...the mainstream media...government officials in DC and elsewhere...etc, etc etc.
Not to mention the fine folks who run this goddam forum who have been telling the SAME story as the gun store owners.

Go put your head back in the sand....or up Obama's ass...wherever you had it shoved before.

[PetePark1811]

I guess I will have to go work on the 5th floor since IQ doesn't think I can cut it. I really thought I had him fooled. If only he didn't possess an IQ of 144. Too smart for me.

Ive got to let you guys take over here.
Talking to stupid, gullible people...or those who think they are actually fooling anyone...is just not something I plan on spending my day with today.
I have a round of golf to play.

I would like to remind everyone here of this;

Apparently according to PeterParker here you guys just dont have much in the brains department.
One has to wonder how you feed yourselves....or do investigations and make arrests.

Personally, I think you BATFE guys at the field level are great and an asset to this country.

[PetePark1811]

I am trying to picture you and it keeps coming up as a guy living in his mom's basement with a foil hat to keep the satellites from scanning his brain.

Do you realize how ignorant this is?

A THEORY is simply a conclusion drawn to explain the DETAILS and FACTS in a given matter.
The THEORY of gravity revolves around the FACT that if I drop a lump of shit it'll fall to the ground.
The THEORY itself isnt the issue...the FACTS ARE.
The FACTS ARE that the BATFE DID allow guns to cross the Mexican border ILLEGALLY. It was THEIR JOB to stop them, but they didnt under orders from the uppers.

So your statement above is complete idiocy.

[Excalibur-2112]

I just don't think that they (ATF) are that smart.

[Excalibur-2112]

IQ,
Good luck. Thanks for paying my salary with your taxes. Do they allow you to have access to the computer everyday. I thought most of the nut wards limit your time on the computer. Also, just call it ATF. It will save you a lot of time on the computer.

Stop being an anal retentive. I prefer BATFE

[Excalibur-2112]

Call your theories what they are - theories.

Do you realize how ignorant this is?

A THEORY is simply a conclusion drawn to explain the DETAILS and FACTS in a given matter.
The THEORY of gravity revolves around the FACT that if I drop a lump of shit it'll fall to the ground.
The THEORY itself isnt the issue...the FACTS ARE.
The FACTS ARE that the BATFE DID allow guns to cross the Mexican border ILLEGALLY. It was THEIR JOB to stop them, but they didnt under orders from the uppers.

So your statement above is complete idiocy.

[PetePark1811]

IQ,
Good luck. Thanks for paying my salary with your taxes. Do they allow you to have access to the computer everyday. I thought most of the nut wards limit your time on the computer. Also, just call it ATF. It will save you a lot of time on the computer.

The fact is that in the very beginning of this story I made a LOT of assertions and drew a lot of conclusions and they are ALL coming to light now BECAUSE logic prevails in the world. Evil minds do evil things. Good minds do good things. Its inevitable.

The first was based on what I keep saying....that the BATFE and gun store owners stories agree. That was the most damning evidence in the beginning...can you tell me why?

No, pal, what youre are doing is called a 'red herring'.
You are trying to distract with some bullshit side issue of whether the FBI is also complicit in order to keep the focus off the issue at hand, which is that the BATFE IS complicit in running guns illegally into another sovereign country.
Ive simply been playing along with you because idiots like you amuse me. Watching your song and dance routine is a lot of entertainment.
You took ONE statement I made and decided to run with that irrelevance because you know you dont have anything to back up your BATFE bullshit.




Im a taxpayer pal...I PAY your wages. YOU are my employee and as MY employee I will keep track of ALL of what is going on as the evidence comes out.
The FBI is now in the investigation and I WILL pursue it in my own research PERIOD.
It doesnt matter if you like it or not.

Tell you what, though, if and when we in the public sector DEMAND that the BATFE be DEFUNDED you can thank jokers like yourself for that happening.
Rather than being cooperative like the fine folks here on this site YOUR sort tries to keep up the smokescreen.
You forget you are funded with TAXPAYER money, I'd say.



Damn what a moron.
WHERE did I accuse YOU PERSONALLY for it?

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[PetePark1811]

Now was that so hard. You admit you have no facts saying these people were prohibited, only that the FBI does NICS, then a jump to crazy town. I am only trying to get to the facts, not wild allegations. Call your theories what they are - theories. If ATF agents watched guns cross the border and did nothing, you need to focus on that fact. If the US Govt came up with a strategy that knowingly allowed guns to go into the hands of cartel murderers in Mexico, you need to focus on that. Don't forget, according to you, this was a strategy from the top. Focus on that. But stick to the facts. There are plenty here.

PS - How do I exactly accuse your gun rights? For an IQ of 144, you are a horrible writer. Maybe math is your thing.

We'll try this one more time.....


1. Gun store owners gave their account.

2. BATFE agents gave their account.

3. Gun store owners and BATFE agents stories line up.

4. The FBI is NOW also under investigation. In part because THEY do the NICS check that should have stopped ANY unlawful sales. The jury is out on this one....for now.


5. Other government agencies are also being looked at in this investigation, as is Holder, Clinton and Napolitano, to name a few.

6. EVEN IF the gun sales WERE legal and the FBI is NOT complicit the DETAILS of F/F on the part of the BATFE DOES NOT CHANGE. They STILL KNOWINGLY told gun store owners to make sales they did NOT want to make and KNOWINGLY allowed those guns to cross the border into another SOVEREIGN nation WITHOUT that nations knowledge or permission (an act of war). The allegations against the BATFE and ITS illegal activity IS NOT NULLIFIED by the FBI being complicit or not. They STILL DID what they did.

7. WHILE the BATFE was doing this Obama and his clown college were accusing MY gun rights for these guns getting into Mexico.

8. HAD the BATFE NOT been up to illegal activity they COULD have come forth while MY rights were being slandered and corrected Obama and his drones by letting them know that it wasnt MY rights causing American guns to get into Mexico but an operation THEY were carrying out. That they didnt is very telling and a HUGE piece of evidence in the overall scheme of things.

[Excalibur-2112]

We'll try this one more time.....


1. Gun store owners gave their account.

2. BATFE agents gave their account.

3. Gun store owners and BATFE agents stories line up.

4. The FBI is NOW also under investigation. In part because THEY do the NICS check that should have stopped ANY unlawful sales. The jury is out on this one....for now.


5. Other government agencies are also being looked at in this investigation, as is Holder, Clinton and Napolitano, to name a few.

6. EVEN IF the gun sales WERE legal and the FBI is NOT complicit the DETAILS of F/F on the part of the BATFE DOES NOT CHANGE. They STILL KNOWINGLY told gun store owners to make sales they did NOT want to make and KNOWINGLY allowed those guns to cross the border into another SOVEREIGN nation WITHOUT that nations knowledge or permission (an act of war). The allegations against the BATFE and ITS illegal activity IS NOT NULLIFIED by the FBI being complicit or not. They STILL DID what they did.

7. WHILE the BATFE was doing this Obama and his clown college were accusing MY gun rights for these guns getting into Mexico.

8. HAD the BATFE NOT been up to illegal activity they COULD have come forth while MY rights were being slandered and corrected Obama and his drones by letting them know that it wasnt MY rights causing American guns to get into Mexico but an operation THEY were carrying out. That they didnt is very telling and a HUGE piece of evidence in the overall scheme of things.

[Excalibur-2112]

So you finally answer the question. Thanks. The allegation came from the voices in your head. Hey, do the voices in your head know who shot Kennedy? Or the truth about Roswell?

again...

2. from the FACT that the FBI came under suspicion after questions were asked about how these sales passed a NICS check.

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[Excalibur-2112]

Making note of this post in particular since it is clearly about the BATFE involvement in F/F and seems to indicate a bit of naivety on the part of the poster in addition to basically calling the agents here liars who have made any absolute claims about BATFE being involved in F/F.

I would like to think even more ATF agents would have come out, but had no idea what was going on. None of my co-workers had any knowledge of the F&F. It was a Title III and unless you were involved, you shouldn't know about it. I think you are trying to put 2 and 2 together and make 7. You want this to be a huge conspiracy and regardless of the facts, it will be a huge conspiracy. Again, maybe it is. Until it has been proven, stick with the facts. Your leaps in logic are mind boggling. Again, got to get back to the mop.

We'll try this one more time.....


1. Gun store owners gave their account.

2. BATFE agents gave their account.

3. Gun store owners and BATFE agents stories line up.

4. The FBI is NOW also under investigation. In part because THEY do the NICS check that should have stopped ANY unlawful sales. The jury is out on this one....for now.


5. Other government agencies are also being looked at in this investigation, as is Holder, Clinton and Napolitano, to name a few.

6. EVEN IF the gun sales WERE legal and the FBI is NOT complicit the DETAILS of F/F on the part of the BATFE DOES NOT CHANGE. They STILL KNOWINGLY told gun store owners to make sales they did NOT want to make and KNOWINGLY allowed those guns to cross the border into another SOVEREIGN nation WITHOUT that nations knowledge or permission (an act of war). The allegations against the BATFE and ITS illegal activity IS NOT NULLIFIED by the FBI being complicit or not. They STILL DID what they did.

7. WHILE the BATFE was doing this Obama and his clown college were accusing MY gun rights for these guns getting into Mexico.

8. HAD the BATFE NOT been up to illegal activity they COULD have come forth while MY rights were being slandered and corrected Obama and his drones by letting them know that it wasnt MY rights causing American guns to get into Mexico but an operation THEY were carrying out. That they didnt is very telling and a HUGE piece of evidence in the overall scheme of things.

[PetePark1811]

So you finally answer the question. Thanks. The allegation came from the voices in your head. Hey, do the voices in your head know who shot Kennedy? Or the truth about Roswell?

Wow.
Please tell me that YOU are not personally involved in law enforcement in any fact finding capacity. If so, its clear what is wrong with the country right now.

My links WERE NOT TRYING to show any SPECIFIC DETAILS, doper....but simply to PROVE THE FACT that the FBI IS NOW PART OF the investigation....which WOULD NOT LIKELY BE THE CASE IF it were assumed that NONE of the gun sales were thought to have been approved by NICS illegally.
Im sure that the FBI is being looked at for other issues...as is ICE and the DEA and possibly a couple others.
But the NICS system is DIRECTLY involved with gun sales and once the question came up of if the gun sales WERE actually legal sales the FBI allegations began.

whew.....

[PetePark1811]

IQ,
You really don't like addressing questions. That is a fact. You ignore the points and go back to crazy town. Most ATF agent do what they do for reasons you will never understand. Making this country a safer place and defending the constitution. Most of us have been in the military and have been police officers. The agents and gun store owners stories do agree. My question is - where did you come up with the theory that the gun smugglers were prohibited? Where did you come up with the theory that the FBI is being questioned that they perverted the NICS to let gun sales go through on prohibited persons. Simple questions. You can dance around it all you want. Maybe you are right. I just want a straight answer.

Goddam you cannot be this dumb.
Unlike your goofy goddam ass *I* can add 2 and 2.

2. GUN STORE OWNERS GAVE THEIR ACCOUNT (which I have READ)
2. BATFE AGENTS GAVE THEIR ACCOUNT (which I have READ)
4. BOTH ACCOUNTS AGREE.

BATFE AGENTS ARE NOT GOING TO ENDANGER THEIR CAREERS OVER A LIE.
Do YOU COMPREHEND?????

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[PetePark1811]

Hey IQ,
The point I was trying to make is your link doesn't support your allegation. Where is the support?? Where does this allegation come from?? Remember, voices in your head don't count. These stories about the FBI all go after the allegation of a FBI informant buying guns. Stick to the facts. You have plenty. Don't make up stuff to make the voices in your head happy.

Hey Joker.
I simply added a link to show your goofy uneducated ass that the FBI HAS been brought into the investigation because of the NICS checks that obviously had to take place....which implies that there was some complicity on their part as well. I didnt read every link that was included in that quick search, nitwit.

Of course HERE and NOW its just 'allegations'....but in the beginning of this F/F issue IT was only an 'allegation' as well.
NOW, however, it is much more.
Again...*IF* there were NO REASON to think that none of these sales were illegal THEN there would be NO NEED to even bother looking at the FBI.

Are you getting it yet?
Is it adding up yet?

Somehow I doubt it.

[Excalibur-2112]

2. GUN STORE OWNERS GAVE THEIR ACCOUNT (which I have READ)
2. BATFE AGENTS GAVE THEIR ACCOUNT (which I have READ)
4. BOTH ACCOUNTS AGREE.

BATFE AGENTS ARE NOT GOING TO ENDANGER THEIR CAREERS OVER A LIE.

[Excalibur-2112]

Maybe there was a vast conspiracy. List it as a theory. To date, that is all it is - a theory. Sorry, I can't ramble more. These floors aren't going to mop themselves.

Whew.
So now youre undecided?
After all this arguing?

YOU may be undecided, friend...and thats fine...but dont waste our time here because *IF* there was no conspiracy....IF there were no corruption in the BATFE management...then it would be clear that EVERY agent here on this forum who has said there IS corruption in the BATFE would be a liar.
THAT would, AGAIN, mean that these fine men and women are PURPOSELESSLY ENDANGERING THEIR CAREERS BY EVEN BEING HERE making the claims they have

ARE YOU so goddam naive or stupid as to actually believe that FOR NO REASON these fine people ARE putting themselves on the line just to make up bullshit lies????

Of course they ARE NOT!
The conclusion is, since their accounts AGREE with gun store owner accounts that these ARE the facts in the matter.

dear Jesus....can you be this dense?

[PetePark1811]

Mr. IQ,
Most of us do what we do because we believe in this country and what it stand for. I would like to think even more ATF agents would have come out, but had no idea what was going on. None of my co-workers had any knowledge of the F&F. It was a Title III and unless you were involved, you shouldn't know about it. I think you are trying to put 2 and 2 together and make 7. You want this to be a huge conspiracy and regardless of the facts, it will be a huge conspiracy. Again, maybe it is. Until it has been proven, stick with the facts. Your leaps in logic are mind boggling. Again, got to get back to the mop.

Question for you BATFE AGENTS here.

Would YOU have put YOUR career on the line by coming out against corruption in the BATFE for nothing...just for the hell of it ?

Apparently this Pete guy just isnt mentally competent enough to deduce that if you all did put your careers on the line that there HAS to be some truth in what you are claiming...ESPECIALLY when your accounts line up perfectly with the gun store owners who were supposedly working with the BATFE when they sold guns to criminals.


here ya go Pete.....read some....
http://cleanupatf.or...-c-fred-alford/

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[PetePark1811]

Hey genius! Have you ever clicked the link you have posted in regard to the FBI being questioned? It does imply anything about the FBI and NICS. It only talks about a third gun at Brian Terry's murder and the possibility of an FBI informant buying guns. Nothing about NICs. Was this another voice in your head telling you something? Let's stop with the insult and just stick with the facts. You have plenty. The crap that went on in this investigation is mind boggling. Those of us who are actually ATF agents find it hard to believe this could have happened. Please read your own listed link. Issa is asking the FBI about the possibility of an FBI CI buying guns. I have mentioned this, but it still isn't a fact, just an allegation. Maybe there was a vast conspiracy. List it as a theory. To date, that is all it is - a theory. Sorry, I can't ramble more. These floors aren't going to mop themselves.

Based on your clear inability to even comprehend the simplest of concepts I can completely understand why youre having trouble keeping up.
Do us a favor, dont give up your day job as a janitor to become a detective just yet....and by all that is holy do NOT sit on a jury where someones future is at stake.


Wow...just how damned dumb can you be?
The STORE OWNERS WERE BEING INSTRUCTED TO GO AHEAD WITH THE SALES EVEN WHEN THEY DIDNT WANT TO MAKE THEM!
DO YOU COMPREHEND ????

And *IF* Issa felt that they were all legal sales then the FBI would NOT NOW BE BEING QUESTIONED !

GETTING IT YET ?????

Try reading it again...

[Excalibur-2112]

Question for you BATFE AGENTS here.

Would YOU have put YOUR career on the line by coming out against corruption in the BATFE for nothing...just for the hell of it ?

Apparently this Pete guy just isnt mentally competent enough to deduce that if you all did put your careers on the line that there HAS to be some truth in what you are claiming...ESPECIALLY when your accounts line up perfectly with the gun store owners who were supposedly working with the BATFE when they sold guns to criminals.


here ya go Pete.....read some....
http://cleanupatf.or...-c-fred-alford/

[Excalibur-2112]

As a general rule, anytime someone quotes their IQ, I find them to be an idiot and insecure.

I find that anytime someone has to deem the opposition as being mentally defective that they are likely trying to justify not accepting the facts provided because they are fearful that if they do read them they will find out they are wrong.

[Excalibur-2112]

I haven't heard anything in detail saying the suspected smugglers were prohibited.

Again....

Lets pretend for a moment that EVERY gun sale made was actually legal. What the hell would that prove, friend?
It would ONLY argue the case of innocence for the GUN STORE owner and the FBI.....it does NOT do a damned thing to show that the BATFE who knew the guns ended up going south were innocent in the matter.
If they KNEW about them and KNEW they were going across the border the RESULT would be EXACTLY the SAME !

EVEN IF EVERY gun sale had been legal, which the evidence is not supporting, otherwise there would be NO need to even question the FBI, which is now being done....it does NOT nullify that the BATFE KNOWINGLY allowed guns to get into Mexico after they were purchased...and that BOTH GUN STORE OWNERS and BATFE AGENTS AGREE on the details.

See how easy that was ?

Keep running the rat on the wheel, you'll get it eventually.

[PetePark1811]

As a general rule, anytime someone quotes their IQ, I find them to be an idiot and insecure.

Well of course you'd need for that to be the case..that way you dont have to actually examine any evidence provided by the crazy person
I have a 142 IQ, friend...and Im more law abiding than 99.9% of the population because, unlike many, I believe that even seat belt laws should be adhered to BECAUSE they ARE the law...even if I do find them stupid.
I dont speed....how about you?

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[PetePark1811]

Boy, I find it hard to keep up with your leaps of logic. The gun dealers suspected that the guns were being smuggled to Mexico. They have the right to refuse any sale. They were nervous about the sales. The suspects were passing NICS. ATF Phoenix told them to go ahead and make the sale. Same thing the ATF agents who came forward said. Now you take this step off into crazy town. I haven't heard anything in detail saying the suspected smugglers were prohibited. Have you? Remember, voices in your head don't count.

No clue what the hell you are rambling on about there, Oz.


AGAIN....the BATFE agents and the GUN STORE OWNERS stories MATCH.
They were INSTRUCTED to make sales they knew were wrong to make (link) which now implicates the FBI and their NICS check and is precisely why the investigation is looking in that direction)

Again by YOUR fallacious comprehension of the FACTS....or lack of understanding of them entirely....the BATFE agents whose stories AGREED with the GUN STORE owners were CONSPIRING together to DESTROY their CAREERS and LIVES.

BATFE agents are NOT going to endanger their lives and careers for NOTHING, pal....

[Excalibur-2112]

deleted by poster.

[Excalibur-2112]

Now that we have created "Future Crime" we can go ahead and have Tom Cruise become an ATF agent for Minority Report

Any of you other see any fortune telling in this post ?
Seems more like a simple examination of logic and reason to me.
I think Pete here has been playing with an Ouija board once too often...and apparently doesnt have very good comprehension skills.
Little hint pete....there was no fortune telling in this post. ;-)

Lets play a game, shall we?

Lets pretend for a moment that EVERY gun sale made was actually legal. What the hell would that prove, friend?
It would ONLY argue the case of innocence for the GUN STORE owner and the FBI.....it does NOT do a damned thing to show that the BATFE who knew the guns ended up going south were innocent in the matter.
If they KNEW about them and KNEW they were going across the border the RESULT would be EXACTLY the SAME !

EVEN IF EVERY gun sale had been legal, which the evidence is not supporting, otherwise there would be NO need to even question the FBI, which is now being done....it does NOT nullify that the BATFE KNOWINGLY allowed guns to get into Mexico after they were purchased...and that BOTH GUN STORE OWNERS and BATFE AGENTS AGREE on the details.

See how easy that was ?