2 replies to this topic

[Zorro]

I get that and as I posted earlier, heck I just mentined what I believe to be an example of waste, fraud and abuse and becuase of who the SAC is, I got my head cut off.

Not that you asked for any opinions, but I think you are burning way too many brain cells on this. You got hit with two drive-bys that were off topic with one being typical of the establishment in nature.

Your post was, at worst, assuming the allegation was true and asked for verification - which if true is almost certainly misuse of public funds (of which the government ran out of years ago). When you live as well as most of us do on the backs of others, I don't think a good faith effort to stretch other people's money... maybe even - heaven forbid - turning some back to the coffers is asking too much but of course many others in government strongly disagree.

Based on one of your previous posts, I suspect you have considerable potential to help bring about reform in the agency (if in fact there actually was a genuine need for that sort of thing). I hope you get some chain mail or even just thick skin and stick around.

[sierra donaven]

To Those Who Pursue Truth, Justice & Efforts for a Greater, Stronger, Unified ATF - The Light of Spirit Surrounds You, The Love of Spirit Enfolds You, The Power of Spirit Protects You & The Presence of Spirit Watches Over You, Where Ever You Are Spirit Is & Therefore You Shall Succeed, Give No Thought To Time, In Spirit Time Is Irrelevant, Good Deeds Exceed, Build Up & Move Mountains.

Swampdog, FOG13, Patriot, Jamie, Sandy,

You are all correct and on point on all accounts. Why cant we all agree that we live and work in a system that can be improved.

Too many whiners, too many malcontents, too much misinformation. Sure, too many lack of experiencxed mangers...you betcha.............A switch in this sites focus would be better for ATF and give the posters more street cred. I get that and as I posted earlier, heck I just mentined what I believe to be an example of waste, fraud and abuse and becuase of who the SAC is, I got my head cut off. This is exactly why we are in the mess. In stead of coming to the defense of the SAC, the poster (one of the sacs friends no doubt) could have explained what he or she thought of the issue and not defend the sac.

So here is another one of those friends and familiy issues. The former Deputy Director and ADFO was by accounts having what possbily may have been an inappropriate relationship with a subordiante employee who worked for of all directorates...........CHIEF COUNSELS office. How could that be. My understanding is that they didnt even hide it. Everyone knew, everyone saw, did anyone pull him to the side and say, Billy, this looks bad...............Billy, not at work, Billy, people are talking. And wose yet, each of the three DAD's and none of the AD's said nothing and reported nothing. During this same period Hoover and Chait and CHIEF Counsels Office support firing subordinate employees for everything and anything. This is where we as an agency fall short. Mabe as the OIG is looking into F & F they can also find out why in addition to him protecting Chait, MacMahon and Newell, why is was parading an at work romance with a subordinate employee. Hoover you were paying attention to the wrong thing!!!!

The problem here is not that Hoover did anything that human beings dont do. The real issue is why would he think that it is OK to go unchecked. Why would he think that he can act with impunity and not be questioned just like why should the Miami SAC office go unquestioned in this budget climate. Why Why Why. Heck I was told last year that Hoover submitted Chait for a DOJ Merit AWARD! Billy, REALLY ? REALLY? in the midst of what may be the worst period in this agencies history? After Chait abandoned his troops during one of the worst natural disasters in American history? After he doesnt manage a field operation as the AD for FIELD OPERATIONS and does nothing about the responsible DAD for FIELD OPERATIONS..........oh let me remember, he did do something.....he sent him to be the 2nd in charge of the directorate charged with responding to the OIG inquiry. REALLY? MACMahon is rumored to read the New York Post everyday and work on crossword puzzles in the office with his feet up, so lets paint the picture. Billy Hoover is haviing a relationship with a subordinate employee from of all directorates Chief Counsels Office. He is not giving Melson accurate accounts of a sensitive investigation based on his ineffective leadership of Mark Chait who is not receiviing accurate assessments of a sensitive investigation from Bill Macmahon who works on The New York Post Crossword Puzzle everyday even though field agents were attempting to ensure that their own managers knew the challenges

Can we all agree that despite anyone elses transgressions albeit field agents or managers that Newell, Chait, Hoover, Macmahon and Melson have all disgraced this organization and deserve whatever measure of discipline that they get?

Mr Jones, this is not personal................This standard should apply to whomever was or is in these positions of responsibility. The Field is watching Mr. Jones, a vacation on paid leave is not enough. The entire organization is suffering the consequences of their inaction and arrogance.

[TopCat]

Swampdog, FOG13, Patriot, Jamie, Sandy,

You are all correct and on point on all accounts. Why cant we all agree that we live and work in a system that can be improved.

Too many whiners, too many malcontents, too much misinformation. Sure, too many lack of experiencxed mangers...you betcha.............A switch in this sites focus would be better for ATF and give the posters more street cred. I get that and as I posted earlier, heck I just mentined what I believe to be an example of waste, fraud and abuse and becuase of who the SAC is, I got my head cut off. This is exactly why we are in the mess. In stead of coming to the defense of the SAC, the poster (one of the sacs friends no doubt) could have explained what he or she thought of the issue and not defend the sac.

So here is another one of those friends and familiy issues. The former Deputy Director and ADFO was by accounts having what possbily may have been an inappropriate relationship with a subordiante employee who worked for of all directorates...........CHIEF COUNSELS office. How could that be. My understanding is that they didnt even hide it. Everyone knew, everyone saw, did anyone pull him to the side and say, Billy, this looks bad...............Billy, not at work, Billy, people are talking. And wose yet, each of the three DAD's and none of the AD's said nothing and reported nothing. During this same period Hoover and Chait and CHIEF Counsels Office support firing subordinate employees for everything and anything. This is where we as an agency fall short. Mabe as the OIG is looking into F & F they can also find out why in addition to him protecting Chait, MacMahon and Newell, why is was parading an at work romance with a subordinate employee. Hoover you were paying attention to the wrong thing!!!!

The problem here is not that Hoover did anything that human beings dont do. The real issue is why would he think that it is OK to go unchecked. Why would he think that he can act with impunity and not be questioned just like why should the Miami SAC office go unquestioned in this budget climate. Why Why Why. Heck I was told last year that Hoover submitted Chait for a DOJ Merit AWARD! Billy, REALLY ? REALLY? in the midst of what may be the worst period in this agencies history? After Chait abandoned his troops during one of the worst natural disasters in American history? After he doesnt manage a field operation as the AD for FIELD OPERATIONS and does nothing about the responsible DAD for FIELD OPERATIONS..........oh let me remember, he did do something.....he sent him to be the 2nd in charge of the directorate charged with responding to the OIG inquiry. REALLY? MACMahon is rumored to read the New York Post everyday and work on crossword puzzles in the office with his feet up, so lets paint the picture. Billy Hoover is haviing a relationship with a subordinate employee from of all directorates Chief Counsels Office. He is not giving Melson accurate accounts of a sensitive investigation based on his ineffective leadership of Mark Chait who is not receiviing accurate assessments of a sensitive investigation from Bill Macmahon who works on The New York Post Crossword Puzzle everyday even though field agents were attempting to ensure that their own managers knew the challenges

Can we all agree that despite anyone elses transgressions albeit field agents or managers that Newell, Chait, Hoover, Macmahon and Melson have all disgraced this organization and deserve whatever measure of discipline that they get?

Mr Jones, this is not personal................This standard should apply to whomever was or is in these positions of responsibility. The Field is watching Mr. Jones, a vacation on paid leave is not enough. The entire organization is suffering the consequences of their inaction and arrogance.