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Medea's Purse......


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#1 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:47 AM

Madea spots a group of smokers and among them there is a bench that is ‘fully occupied’. She walks over to one of the young ladies sitting on the bench and convinces her to give up her seat. In fact, she convinces several young ladies to give up their seats. Madea needs her room. As she starts to read the string of emails, one email in particular catches her attention. It’s from Dana Crawford (a HR Specialist) to Armando Salas and Don York. A copy was sent to Eleanor Loos and Richard Hurst. It appears to be about a suspension of an ATF whistleblower. Dana indicates in the email that she sent information about the whistleblower to OPRSO and says, “they informed me by phone that they would not investigate this case and for us to continue to move forward”. This email is from 2008, but folks this ‘policy’ between OPRSO and management has not changed. Believe it or not, you can receive a disciplinary action without ANY investigation. This ENRAGED MADEA because it shows the employee’s voice is not always heard before being tried and convicted by OCC. Madea is starting to burn hotter than her cigarette......


Tom, would this be a 'Due Process' violation? No chance for an employee to even explain what really happened? ...just a suspension, just a reprimand, just a Giglio issue? If this is a Due Process violation, Eleanor knew about it as far back as 2008 and it's still going on. Panel members - if you need proof of this, contact me at sandraedavis@bellsouth.net

#2 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:14 AM

Madea spots a group of smokers and among them there is a bench that is ‘fully occupied’. She walks over to one of the young ladies sitting on the bench and convinces her to give up her seat. In fact, she convinces several young ladies to give up their seats. Madea needs her room. As she starts to read the string of emails, one email in particular catches her attention. It’s from Dana Crawford (a HR Specialist) to Armando Salas and Don York. A copy was sent to Eleanor Loos and Richard Hurst. It appears to be about a suspension of an ATF whistleblower. Dana indicates in the email that she sent information about the whistleblower to OPRSO and says, “they informed me by phone that they would not investigate this case and for us to continue to move forward”. This email is from 2008, but folks this ‘policy’ between OPRSO and management has not changed. Believe it or not, you can receive a disciplinary action without ANY investigation. This ENRAGED MADEA because it shows the employee’s voice is not always heard before being tried and convicted by OCC. Madea is starting to burn hotter than her cigarette......

#3 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:41 PM

Early indications show that Tom got it right by naming Henry Lescault as the ATF Ombuddy. Response was quick, discussions were civilized and open minded. This is refreshing Tom. And by God, Henry didn't even hang up on me.

"Why should there not be patient confidence in the ultimate justice of the people? Is there any better or equal hope in the world?" -Abraham Lincoln


#4 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:58 AM

Madea, in a full run, is looking back over her shoulder to see if security is catching up with her when she crashes into a car illegally parked in the Fire Lane. She falls right on her ass. She looks up to see what she hit and it is a shitonia brown corvette. “I KNOW THIS DAMN CAR”, she bellows. Sure enough, she looks up at the tags and through stars she sees the word ‘Rockets’. She reaches for her purse to call I.A., which she has on speed dial, to turn Larry’s ass in, AGAIN. As she goes to open her purse, she sees a huge clump of Eleanor’s hair tangled up in the clasp. “Um, maybe I hit her harder than I thought” she chuckles. While pulling Eleanor’s hair out of the clasp, Madea notices a bunch of papers laying by the curb next to the passenger door. Madea being Madea, crawls over to pick them up ripping her support hose in the process. They appear to be a long string of emails about an agent. The emails are between Eleanor, the agent’s supervisors, and a women named Dana Crawford, a Human Resource Specialist. The string of emails starts on March 5th 2008. Madea shoves the emails into her purse and decides to go somewhere and have a smoke while she deciphers what Eleanor was up to in these emails. She runs off aware of her aching shoulder, her ripped support hose, and her very sore behind thinking, “I’m getting too old for this shit”.



Thanks to everyone who has contacted Kay or me and given us your documents and intel. It is all going straight into Madea's purse to be studied and then exposed. So as she says, "keep those cards and letters coming folks".

There can't be effective change at ATF until everyone has a clear picture of exactly what ATF is up to and what needs to be changed. I hope the panel members are following this thread so that they too have this information. Your cases serve as examples of the pattern of behavior by OCC and management and the entire corrupt and broken system. Um, so far it appears getting RID of MOST of the attorneys in OCC would solve many of the main problems in this agency. Again, thanks!

#5 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:31 AM

Madea, in a full run, is looking back over her shoulder to see if security is catching up with her when she crashes into a car illegally parked in the Fire Lane. She falls right on her ass. She looks up to see what she hit and it is a shitonia brown corvette. “I KNOW THIS DAMN CAR”, she bellows. Sure enough, she looks up at the tags and through stars she sees the word ‘Rockets’. She reaches for her purse to call I.A., which she has on speed dial, to turn Larry’s ass in, AGAIN. As she goes to open her purse, she sees a huge clump of Eleanor’s hair tangled up in the clasp. “Um, maybe I hit her harder than I thought” she chuckles. While pulling Eleanor’s hair out of the clasp, Madea notices a bunch of papers laying by the curb next to the passenger door. Madea being Madea, crawls over to pick them up ripping her support hose in the process. They appear to be a long string of emails about an agent. The emails are between Eleanor, the agent’s supervisors, and a women named Dana Crawford, a Human Resource Specialist. The string of emails starts on March 5th 2008. Madea shoves the emails into her purse and decides to go somewhere and have a smoke while she deciphers what Eleanor was up to in these emails. She runs off aware of her aching shoulder, her ripped support hose, and her very sore behind thinking, “I’m getting too old for this shit”.

#6 Jaime3

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:12 PM

Completely unethical!

The No Fear Act has being totally ignored in these legal proceedings and that will change soon enough!

#7 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:23 PM

There seems to be some confusion here regarding an active attorney being a BDO. It isn't illegal, it is blatantly and outrageously UNETHICAL. This is the reason ATF was admonished by a judge for this practice. It undermines the entire system. The active attorney makes the disciplinary decisions in order to later claim attorney/client and work product privilege when other cases arise. They withhold discovery so that other complainants cannot win. It also completely undermines the No Fear Act.



Retired, here is a reponse to you from a friend:


'retired and loving it' please know that stevie (rubenstein) ran away via retiring abruptly on Jan 31, 2012. Stevie thinks he doesnt have to worry about explaining anything that he authorized on his watch, like Operation Fast and Furious, or advising Newell and McMahon on how to testify before Congress, or continuing to allow ATF OCC Attys to be an active ATF Atty and the BDO which is unlawful. Stevie, get yourself an atty! G. Elaine Smith get an atty too!
Tom Brandon has not been told the truth by the ATF OCC Attys. They are trying to convince him that they are in charge and have the ultimate authority in all decision making. This is the system Stevie put into place, and the ATF OCC truly believes they are still in charge.
The evil power the ATF attys have been allowed to exploit since former ATF Atty Brad Buckles was appointed as acting Director, has placed the agency into turmoil. The agenda of the ATF attys has eroded the law enforcement capabilities and industry requirements of the agency. Never forget about the fraternal connection these ATF attys have to the DOJ and WH staff attys, as many of them attended the same law schools, same political parties, same bars, and live in the same neighorhoods. Readers: Try seeing the big picture as the ugly mess these ATF attys have been painting and why!
Mr Steve Rubenstein, how involved have you been in (firearm related) politics while you worked as the Chief ATF Atty? What legal advice and legal authority did you apply in authorizing Fast and Furious? Did illegally keeping an ATF Atty as the BDO allow you to keep would be whistleblowers and those who refused unlawful orders, inline or without a job should you so choose? When people like Jay Dobbins, Vince Cefalu, John Dodson, and others raised questions and pointed out illegalities, wasn't it ultimately you pulling the SES Manager strings to be sure these loyal, dedicated, career employees were soon labeled as disgruntled, hostile, and incompetent? When you used IA to discredit their complaints, and then used your PRB puppets to push for their dismissals or suspensions, then your Atty BDO to soldify their fates, did you brag of your power to your atty political friends? When the bravest would not be quiet but exposed the improper law enforcement tactics to the media and Congress, were you in search of the fall guys? The fall guys being the power blind SES managers who foolishly trusted your legal advice, and never questioned your authority? Surely Melson, a fellow Atty, knew of your political agenda and views even though he was far to naive,bumbling, and inept to grasp your full power and plans. Obviously, Hoover was too busy liaisoning with your female attys to notice the direction your legal decisions were taking the agency. McMahon was an easy puppet to manuever. Newell was anxious to prove he was actually competent at something, so he quickly surrounded himself with fools like Gillette and Voth, who would not question any objective. All they needed to do was follow orders and make sure those they supervised followed orders! How you must hate that Dodson would not just shut the F up and go away damn it! Maybe you and the former Phoenix US Atty Dennis Burke spoke or traded emails, which is why Burke thought he could destroy that pesky agent Dodson with the email he deliberately leaked hoping to damage Dodson's credibility. Did a street wise agent over throw your political agenda because he wouldnt stop trying to prevent the gun walking? Oh if only he could have been dragged into the downward spiral by your IA, then tossed to your PRB, and finally axed by your BDO. YOUR ILLEGAL ATF ACTIVE ATTY Bureau Deciding Official! You're a mean one Mr Rubenstein! You stopped at nothing to grow your power, yet pretended that you were merely the Chief Counsel. I see Fast and Furious more like ATF Chief Counsel Steve Rubenstein and the Useful Idiots who nearly helped him push Congress into adding more federal firearm laws. Hence, More power for Stevie Rubenstein and his atty klan.

Stevie in your uncomfortable retirement please keep in mind an old ATF HQ adage: "If it wasn't for those damn agents, we could get something done in this agency!"

DD Brandon, see the OCC for the cancer they are within this agency. You have the authority reorganize, restructure, and remove as much of this cancer as necessary to repair this agency. Only attys with actual criminal and civil litigation experience and only those with no political party involvement should be permitted to work in the OCC. The OCC does not need to be involved in all decision making meetings and programs of the agency. The number of ATF attys has grown too large with too much unregulated authority. Complaints against ATF attys must be fully investigated and reported to the Bar Association. ATF attys should not be so entwined in the IA, PRB, and BDO process to avoid abuses of the system. And all attys involved with the Fast and Furious discussions in 2009, 2010, 2011 must be investigated as to their role and their Involvement.



#8 BeenThereDoneThat

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:41 AM

Madea looks down at the third piece of paper. At first she thinks it is a flyer that was left on her windshield, but then she looks closer. Oh my God, it’s not a message from the Jehovah Witnesses, but a signed statement from what appears to be a manager who attended a training conference by Eleanor. As Madea reads her blood pressure starts to rise. At this conference, Loos is telling the managers that the EEO process is just a “bitching platform”. Loos assures these managers that even if there is a finding against them, ATF generally does not take any action against the manager, they simply have to document why they didn’t take any action. Eleanor continues by telling them that the EEO process can be dragged on and can take up to 3-5 years. Eleanor warns the managers that they walk a fine line so as not to be seen as retaliating and goes on to tell them that they can give the employees evaluations that gradually lead to an unfavorable evaluation and eventually a Performance Improvement Plan. Finally, Loos tells the managers that if an EEO investigator asks to interview them, that they should not submit to an interview verbally. She suggests that they ask the investigator for the questions in writing and answer in writing. She tells them to send the questions to her and she will look them over and then have them submit the answers in writing. Eleanor suggested the managers give just enough information in the statement and not too much information in the deposition. Loos then advises the managers not to send their reply back as a word document, this will prevent changes that may be recommended by others reading it. They should sign and scan the document or send as a PDF file.

MADEA IS PISSED. REAL PISSED. She pulls her purse all the way back, lets out a horrific scream, and charges forward. The crowd parts like the Red Sea (except for those unfortunate few who didn’t move out of the way quite fast enough). Madea hits Eleanor while reciting all the names of employees who have been screwed by the OCC over the years. Just as she was about to hit her again, Madea hears them calling for Security over the loud speaker. Madea comes to at this, stops hitting Eleanor, and runs towards the door still clutching her three pieces of paper and her purse. Thank God for automatic doors. Madea realizes a sharp pain in her shoulder......

Madea, even though your style is tongue-in-cheek, you reveal important facts.

What you have described has been happening for years. And I am not exaggerating! It boggles my mind how a federal law enforcement agency can continuously operate with total disregard to the law. Because my father was in the military/Embassy, I grew up in some third-world countries. I witnessed the tragedies and injustice of corrupt governments. My father told me that I was blessed to be an American. However, Madea, when I experienced the things that you have posted, my father told me that he was ashamed of ATF, and he encouraged me to expose it. He was a soldier, and he told me that he had fought to preserve our freedom.

At great cost, I fought the corruption I encountered at ATF. I feel nauseous when I see some of the same people (Eleanor, Felker, Carter, etc) continuing their criminal behavior. The fact that Attorney General Eric Holder can publically testify, and then sit back and allow/protect this corruption is unconscionable!!

As Americans, you need not look at countries overseas and wonder how the people allowed their government to get so out of control. I am angry that a few people at ATF have impacted so many people in such a negative and devastating manner.

#9 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:43 AM

Madea looks down at the third piece of paper. At first she thinks it is a flyer that was left on her windshield, but then she looks closer. Oh my God, it’s not a message from the Jehovah Witnesses, but a signed statement from what appears to be a manager who attended a training conference by Eleanor. As Madea reads her blood pressure starts to rise. At this conference, Loos is telling the managers that the EEO process is just a “bitching platform”. Loos assures these managers that even if there is a finding against them, ATF generally does not take any action against the manager, they simply have to document why they didn’t take any action. Eleanor continues by telling them that the EEO process can be dragged on and can take up to 3-5 years. Eleanor warns the managers that they walk a fine line so as not to be seen as retaliating and goes on to tell them that they can give the employees evaluations that gradually lead to an unfavorable evaluation and eventually a Performance Improvement Plan. Finally, Loos tells the managers that if an EEO investigator asks to interview them, that they should not submit to an interview verbally. She suggests that they ask the investigator for the questions in writing and answer in writing. She tells them to send the questions to her and she will look them over and then have them submit the answers in writing. Eleanor suggested the managers give just enough information in the statement and not too much information in the deposition. Loos then advises the managers not to send their reply back as a word document, this will prevent changes that may be recommended by others reading it. They should sign and scan the document or send as a PDF file.

MADEA IS PISSED. REAL PISSED. She pulls her purse all the way back, lets out a horrific scream, and charges forward. The crowd parts like the Red Sea (except for those unfortunate few who didn’t move out of the way quite fast enough). Madea hits Eleanor while reciting all the names of employees who have been screwed by the OCC over the years. Just as she was about to hit her again, Madea hears them calling for Security over the loud speaker. Madea comes to at this, stops hitting Eleanor, and runs towards the door still clutching her three pieces of paper and her purse. Thank God for automatic doors. Madea realizes a sharp pain in her shoulder......


#10 Retired and loving it

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:39 PM

Retired, here is a reponse to you from a friend:


'retired and loving it' please know that stevie (rubenstein) ran away via retiring abruptly on Jan 31, 2012. Stevie thinks he doesnt have to worry about explaining anything that he authorized on his watch, like Operation Fast and Furious, or advising Newell and McMahon on how to testify before Congress, or continuing to allow ATF OCC Attys to be an active ATF Atty and the BDO which is unlawful. Stevie, get yourself an atty! G. Elaine Smith get an atty too!


Thanks Sandy. Obviously I have been lax in keeping up witb the retirements.

#11 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:10 PM

OCC withholding pertinent facts from the DD??? Say it isn't so!!!

Stevie boy, sounds like you got some splaining to do. Now there's a baby (Stevie) that could be thrown out with the bath water with no loss to ATF.


Retired, here is a reponse to you from a friend:


'retired and loving it' please know that stevie (rubenstein) ran away via retiring abruptly on Jan 31, 2012. Stevie thinks he doesnt have to worry about explaining anything that he authorized on his watch, like Operation Fast and Furious, or advising Newell and McMahon on how to testify before Congress, or continuing to allow ATF OCC Attys to be an active ATF Atty and the BDO which is unlawful. Stevie, get yourself an atty! G. Elaine Smith get an atty too!
Tom Brandon has not been told the truth by the ATF OCC Attys. They are trying to convince him that they are in charge and have the ultimate authority in all decision making. This is the system Stevie put into place, and the ATF OCC truly believes they are still in charge.
The evil power the ATF attys have been allowed to exploit since former ATF Atty Brad Buckles was appointed as acting Director, has placed the agency into turmoil. The agenda of the ATF attys has eroded the law enforcement capabilities and industry requirements of the agency. Never forget about the fraternal connection these ATF attys have to the DOJ and WH staff attys, as many of them attended the same law schools, same political parties, same bars, and live in the same neighorhoods. Readers: Try seeing the big picture as the ugly mess these ATF attys have been painting and why!
Mr Steve Rubenstein, how involved have you been in (firearm related) politics while you worked as the Chief ATF Atty? What legal advice and legal authority did you apply in authorizing Fast and Furious? Did illegally keeping an ATF Atty as the BDO allow you to keep would be whistleblowers and those who refused unlawful orders, inline or without a job should you so choose? When people like Jay Dobbins, Vince Cefalu, John Dodson, and others raised questions and pointed out illegalities, wasn't it ultimately you pulling the SES Manager strings to be sure these loyal, dedicated, career employees were soon labeled as disgruntled, hostile, and incompetent? When you used IA to discredit their complaints, and then used your PRB puppets to push for their dismissals or suspensions, then your Atty BDO to soldify their fates, did you brag of your power to your atty political friends? When the bravest would not be quiet but exposed the improper law enforcement tactics to the media and Congress, were you in search of the fall guys? The fall guys being the power blind SES managers who foolishly trusted your legal advice, and never questioned your authority? Surely Melson, a fellow Atty, knew of your political agenda and views even though he was far to naive,bumbling, and inept to grasp your full power and plans. Obviously, Hoover was too busy liaisoning with your female attys to notice the direction your legal decisions were taking the agency. McMahon was an easy puppet to manuever. Newell was anxious to prove he was actually competent at something, so he quickly surrounded himself with fools like Gillette and Voth, who would not question any objective. All they needed to do was follow orders and make sure those they supervised followed orders! How you must hate that Dodson would not just shut the F up and go away damn it! Maybe you and the former Phoenix US Atty Dennis Burke spoke or traded emails, which is why Burke thought he could destroy that pesky agent Dodson with the email he deliberately leaked hoping to damage Dodson's credibility. Did a street wise agent over throw your political agenda because he wouldnt stop trying to prevent the gun walking? Oh if only he could have been dragged into the downward spiral by your IA, then tossed to your PRB, and finally axed by your BDO. YOUR ILLEGAL ATF ACTIVE ATTY Bureau Deciding Official! You're a mean one Mr Rubenstein! You stopped at nothing to grow your power, yet pretended that you were merely the Chief Counsel. I see Fast and Furious more like ATF Chief Counsel Steve Rubenstein and the Useful Idiots who nearly helped him push Congress into adding more federal firearm laws. Hence, More power for Stevie Rubenstein and his atty klan.

Stevie in your uncomfortable retirement please keep in mind an old ATF HQ adage: "If it wasn't for those damn agents, we could get something done in this agency!"

DD Brandon, see the OCC for the cancer they are within this agency. You have the authority reorganize, restructure, and remove as much of this cancer as necessary to repair this agency. Only attys with actual criminal and civil litigation experience and only those with no political party involvement should be permitted to work in the OCC. The OCC does not need to be involved in all decision making meetings and programs of the agency. The number of ATF attys has grown too large with too much unregulated authority. Complaints against ATF attys must be fully investigated and reported to the Bar Association. ATF attys should not be so entwined in the IA, PRB, and BDO process to avoid abuses of the system. And all attys involved with the Fast and Furious discussions in 2009, 2010, 2011 must be investigated as to their role and their Involvement.


#12 Retired and loving it

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:34 AM

The Baconator has confirmed that Erika Ritt was appointed the designated alternate BDO. Apparently after the OCC was warned by a judge about having active attorneys in the position of BDO, they kept this warning a secret from Tom and just ordered more black magic markers to continue to coverup evidence citing attorney/client privilege.

Tom. better check that you have a contract with Sam’s Club for black magic markers. I have a feeling the OCC will be ordering a lot of them.

Doc, did you mean take your finger off the trigger or the black magic marker?


OCC withholding pertinent facts from the DD??? Say it isn't so!!!

Stevie boy, sounds like you got some splaining to do. Now there's a baby (Stevie) that could be thrown out with the bath water with no loss to ATF.

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:37 AM

The Baconator has confirmed that Erika Ritt was appointed the designated alternate BDO. Apparently after the OCC was warned by a judge about having active attorneys in the position of BDO, they kept this warning a secret from Tom and just ordered more black magic markers to continue to coverup evidence citing attorney/client privilege.

Tom. better check that you have a contract with Sam’s Club for black magic markers. I have a feeling the OCC will be ordering a lot of them.

Doc, did you mean take your finger off the trigger or the black magic marker?


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:36 AM

Doc, I've become a real skeptic. It’s been my experience that the second you take your finger off the trigger, is the exact second they take you out. I think I’ll keep my finger where it is for now.

DEEP Breath everyone. I dont believe this award is specific to ATF Attorneys, since they merely hide and protect the corruption. I believe Mr. Brandon has opened it to anybody, not just attorneys. Either way, fingers off the trigger until we see how they are going to conduct themselves in the upcoming meeting with the Agents. Yes they (being Brandon and Jones) have failed to act decisively and actually put Larry Ford in Charge of real agents and Crenshaw anywhere near real agents. BUT............you'll recall that Newell, McMahon, Chait, and Hoover have been taken out of play. Oh yeah, then the Traver Richardson thing. Never mind.





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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:57 AM

I’m hearing that Mr. Brandon just exonerated two deserving agents who were victims of an abusive manager. I don’t call this having “stones”, I call this integrity. If true, kudos Mr. Brandon!!! Thank you!!! I pray that this is a new and permanent direction and everyone starts to see deserving employees cleared and bad managers held accountable. This could be the very first step in a long overdue healing process. Hopefully whoever the manager was who went after these two agents is disciplined. I’m also guessing there was an ATF attorney involved in the abuse of these agents as they seem to be behind almost every nasty happening within ATF. No one wants to see another bad manager rise in the ranks just to harm more employees or another rotten attorney get away with helping these managers retaliate. Again, kudos to you Mr. Brandon in this first step!!!!

Everybody, go catch badguys. We will know shortly if this committee thing is just smoke and mirrors or a legitimate mechanism to focus this agency. The media is watching and prepared to drop the hammer, and the industry and the American people have had enough.If anyone enters the committee room with any self serving mentality and not 100% focused on accountability and restoring ATF, it is up to the other committee members to vote them off the island. No matter who it is, even if its FLEOA. There is no room for private agendas. I agree with Doc, finger off the trigger. It takes SOME stones to reverse your own decisions and Brandon/Jones have done that on at least one occasion. If they are unable to pull their peers tickets, they will go the way of Truscott, Domenech, Bouchard, Hoover, Chait, Sullivan etc etc.



#16 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:10 PM

Everybody, go catch badguys. We will know shortly if this committee thing is just smoke and mirrors or a legitimate mechanism to focus this agency. The media is watching and prepared to drop the hammer, and the industry and the American people have had enough.If anyone enters the committee room with any self serving mentality and not 100% focused on accountability and restoring ATF, it is up to the other committee members to vote them off the island. No matter who it is, even if its FLEOA. There is no room for private agendas. I agree with Doc, finger off the trigger. It takes SOME stones to reverse your own decisions and Brandon/Jones have done that on at least one occasion. If they are unable to pull their peers tickets, they will go the way of Truscott, Domenech, Bouchard, Hoover, Chait, Sullivan etc etc.

DEEP Breath everyone. I dont believe this award is specific to ATF Attorneys, since they merely hide and protect the corruption. I believe Mr. Brandon has opened it to anybody, not just attorneys. Either way, fingers off the trigger until we see how they are going to conduct themselves in the upcoming meeting with the Agents. Yes they (being Brandon and Jones) have failed to act decisively and actually put Larry Ford in Charge of real agents and Crenshaw anywhere near real agents. BUT............you'll recall that Newell, McMahon, Chait, and Hoover have been taken out of play. Oh yeah, then the Traver Richardson thing. Never mind.


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#17 Doc Holiday

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:59 PM

DEEP Breath everyone. I dont believe this award is specific to ATF Attorneys, since they merely hide and protect the corruption. I believe Mr. Brandon has opened it to anybody, not just attorneys. Either way, fingers off the trigger until we see how they are going to conduct themselves in the upcoming meeting with the Agents. Yes they (being Brandon and Jones) have failed to act decisively and actually put Larry Ford in Charge of real agents and Crenshaw anywhere near real agents. BUT............you'll recall that Newell, McMahon, Chait, and Hoover have been taken out of play. Oh yeah, then the Traver Richardson thing. Never mind.

Wait a minute...is this the same Larry L. Nickells who Tom Brandon JUST created an award for in his honor?????

“The Larry L. Nickell Memorial Award for Legal Advocacy and Professionalism" I believe it's called.

Are they kidding? Are we being punked? ATF is going to award their attorneys in Nickell's honor? Mr. Brandon according to what I'm seeing here, what Mr. Nickells did is called CORRUPTION. Only ATF would so blatantly reward corruption. We expected change, NOT for ATF to double down on the old way. And who in the hell have ATF attorneys EVER advocated for? Oh that's right, their corrupt managers. Folks, welcome to the 'new and approved' ATF. You cannot make this shit up.



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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:37 PM

While eavesdropping on the ladies behind her, Madea continues to dig for her receipt when she comes across three pieces of folded up paper in the side pocket of her purse. The first one talks about managers going to the attorneys at OCC for advice on potential disciplinary actions. Madea thinks to herself, “whatever happened to those people at the ELRB?” Then she looks at the second piece of paper. It’s an email from 2007. “What the hell?”, she thinks. It’s from Larry L. Nickells to Mike Gleysteen who is now a SAC. Reading this email she realizes that Larry is an ATF attorney in San Francisco. Larry is telling Mike that there were several conversations with Barry Orlow and Richard Hurst (both being ATF attorneys). Apparently they were talking about a specific agent. They were also talking about the agent’s whistleblower status and the concern that Richard Hurst had about that status. The interesting part of this email is that Larry Nickells tells Mike, “by discussing the issue with Richard, all discussions would be confidential should future litigation arise”. MADEA IS SEEING RED! She realizes what is going on with all these attorneys at ATF. They are abusing the attorney/client privilege in order to screw the agents and their attorneys. ATF can win its cases by keeping evidence out of the agents’ hands. Madea turns around slowly and glares again at Eleanor......



Wait a minute...is this the same Larry L. Nickells who Tom Brandon JUST created an award for in his honor?????

“The Larry L. Nickell Memorial Award for Legal Advocacy and Professionalism" I believe it's called.

Are they kidding? Are we being punked? ATF is going to award their attorneys in Nickell's honor? Mr. Brandon according to what I'm seeing here, what Mr. Nickells did is called CORRUPTION. Only ATF would so blatantly reward corruption. We expected change, NOT for ATF to double down on the old way. And who in the hell have ATF attorneys EVER advocated for? Oh that's right, their corrupt managers. Folks, welcome to the 'new and approved' ATF. You cannot make this shit up.


#19 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 07:01 AM

While eavesdropping on the ladies behind her, Madea continues to dig for her receipt when she comes across three pieces of folded up paper in the side pocket of her purse. The first one talks about managers going to the attorneys at OCC for advice on potential disciplinary actions. Madea thinks to herself, “whatever happened to those people at the ELRB?” Then she looks at the second piece of paper. It’s an email from 2007. “What the hell?”, she thinks. It’s from Larry L. Nickells to Mike Gleysteen who is now a SAC. Reading this email she realizes that Larry is an ATF attorney in San Francisco. Larry is telling Mike that there were several conversations with Barry Orlow and Richard Hurst (both being ATF attorneys). Apparently they were talking about a specific agent. They were also talking about the agent’s whistleblower status and the concern that Richard Hurst had about that status. The interesting part of this email is that Larry Nickells tells Mike, “by discussing the issue with Richard, all discussions would be confidential should further litigation arise”. MADEA IS SEEING RED! She realizes what is going on with all these attorneys at ATF. They are abusing the attorney/client privilege in order to screw the agents and their attorneys. ATF can win it’s cases by keeping evidence out of the agents’ hands. Madea turns around slowly and glares again at Eleanor......


So let me get this straight Madea....the ATF attorneys are creating litigation (what job security) BEFORE an employee even thinks of filing anything against ATF? What a sweet spot these attorneys have created for themselves. The attorneys just talk about what’s happening to the agents so “should future litigation arise” they can hide the evidence and their discussions with management by claiming attorney/client privilege? Now, I am just the idiot running around loose with a keyboard, but I can see a MAJOR problem with this.

Oh my Tom, this isn’t looking good. Maybe you should get Holder to lift the block on CleanUp so that the panel members can consult it before your meeting with them next month. These are some of the issues you wish to hear about aren’t they? Tom, I’ve been watching Madea pull stuff out of her purse for decades now and I have a very strong feeling that she will have some great ideas for your panel.

Madea, what’s that third piece of folded paper you pulled out of your purse??????????

#20 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:39 AM

While eavesdropping on the ladies behind her, Madea continues to dig for her receipt when she comes across three pieces of folded up paper in the side pocket of her purse. The first one talks about managers going to the attorneys at OCC for advice on potential disciplinary actions. Madea thinks to herself, “whatever happened to those people at the ELRB?” Then she looks at the second piece of paper. It’s an email from 2007. “What the hell?”, she thinks. It’s from Larry L. Nickells to Mike Gleysteen who is now a SAC. Reading this email she realizes that Larry is an ATF attorney in San Francisco. Larry is telling Mike that there were several conversations with Barry Orlow and Richard Hurst (both being ATF attorneys). Apparently they were talking about a specific agent. They were also talking about the agent’s whistleblower status and the concern that Richard Hurst had about that status. The interesting part of this email is that Larry Nickells tells Mike, “by discussing the issue with Richard, all discussions would be confidential should future litigation arise”. MADEA IS SEEING RED! She realizes what is going on with all these attorneys at ATF. They are abusing the attorney/client privilege in order to screw the agents and their attorneys. ATF can win its cases by keeping evidence out of the agents’ hands. Madea turns around slowly and glares again at Eleanor......

#21 Doc Holiday

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:35 PM

WHY are the ATF attorneys invoking work product and attorney client privileges to protect the Fords, Crenshaws, Steve Martins, John Torres' Newells, Gillettes, Glory Hole managers at all? We, roughly 4000 of us ARE THEIR CLIENTS. The Bureau is their client. The Government is their client. These guys are criminals and corrupt and unethical abusive managers. Why are you protecting THEM instead of your Agents and Inspectors Mr. J and Mr. B? We all wondered why Webb and Salas retired so quickly. Guess we know now. No more self serving protectionism smoke and mirrors. It ends now. You do NOT think this flurry of audits and oversight is coincidental do you Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon. Clean this house up transparently and fix the people you or your predesesors have broken or oversight is the only mechanism available to the line Agents. We would all prefer to Police ourselves, but if you won't, somebody will.

Just as Madea was about to hit Loos in the head with her purse, she heard the ladies behind her talking about the problems at ATF. Apparently one of their husbands had been sitting at home for 3 years waiting to be fired. That’s why she was at Walmart. So, the one lady was saying, “There’s going to be a new BDO at ATF. Apparently it is someone named Erika Ritt out of Chicago I think”. WELL, DID MEDEA PERK UP AT THAT! So much for changes coming to ATF.

Now Mr. Acting Director/U.S. Attorney, doesn’t that cause a problem? As an active ATF attorney, will Erika be claiming attorney/client privilege and work product privilege later in litigation? The poor souls who are waiting for her honored decision could face the same problems that Chairman Issa just faced when he received whole pages of documents that were blacked-out because of privilege. COME ON! REALLY? You’ve already been warned about this by a judge. Did your esteemed OCC fail to advise you of that? Well not to worry, Medea is here to help along the way. No need to thank me.



#22 Jaime3

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:08 AM

If my situation isn't resolved by April 1st, I'm going to collaborate with these news correspondents. They are eager for an update.

I'm tired of waiting and in the process, still being harassed. I've reached out to Mr. Jones and didn't receive a reply at all!

I'm tired of the smoke and mirrors!

#23 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:20 AM

Just as Madea was about to hit Loos in the head with her purse, she heard the ladies behind her talking about the problems at ATF. Apparently one of their husbands had been sitting at home for 3 years waiting to be fired. That’s why she was at Walmart. So, the one lady was saying, “There’s going to be a new BDO at ATF. Apparently it is someone named Erika Ritt out of Chicago I think”. WELL, DID MEDEA PERK UP AT THAT! So much for changes coming to ATF.

Now Mr. Acting Director/U.S. Attorney, doesn’t that cause a problem? As an active ATF attorney, will Erika be claiming attorney/client privilege and work product privilege later in litigation? The poor souls who are waiting for her honored decision could face the same problems that Chairman Issa just faced when he received whole pages of documents that were blacked-out because of privilege. COME ON! REALLY? You’ve already been warned about this by a judge. Did your esteemed OCC fail to advise you of that? Well not to worry, Medea is here to help along the way. No need to thank me.

#24 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:22 PM

Im sure I'll be covered up with emails saying that I have wasted my time and yours by posting something as naive as this, but I would say desperate times call for desperate measures....Even unorthodox measures. Even a plea for a leader to be a leader...

I'll go back to watching squirrels play in the snow for now.


Hilltopper, I don't think anyone is going to fault you for having hope. If Brandon doesn't do the right thing, the shame will be his, not yours. Hang in there, keep praying, and keep your hopes up. If Brandon continues as all his predecessors have done before him, he'll find himself with the same embarrassing legacy. And know that Madea and friends will continue to apply pressure until there is some progress. You are not alone.

#25 Jaime3

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:08 PM

Hilltopper that has to be the most sincere solution to all this mess. I hope someone follows that lead.

Its like what Vince mentioned earlier, a lot of this mess couldve been cleared up with a hand shake, honest conversation, sincere problem solving techniques, and open/honest/fair resolution.

#26 Retired and loving it

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:22 PM

Im sure I'll be covered up with emails saying that I have wasted my time and yours by posting something as naive as this, but I would say desperate times call for desperate measures....Even unorthodox measures. Even a plea for a leader to be a leader...


You'll not get any e-mail from me saying that you have wasted your and Brandon's time, Hilltopper. Your suggestions are right on point and it would be really, really refreshing to see ATF management actually heed valid advice like that which you have given.

#27 Hilltopper

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:34 PM

I'm new to this site, but have complained myself about the way some things are handled (i.e. the BDO process and the double standard that seems to appear when supervisors are in trouble). I have listened to comments by members of this site and by the current ATF administration. I'll be the first to admit, I don't know a whole lot about fixing all the perceived problems with ATF, but I can tell you this... I have devoted a lot of time analyzing this situation and praying for both the management and the agents of ATF; that a compromise would be reached that would make the street agents proud of ATF as a whole again.

The one thing that is apparent and is a great starting point for a solution is that many agents, whether on this site or in their offices, feel that there is hope with Mr. Brandon. I agree with Doc Holiday's entry below concerning Mr. Brandon. I think that he wants to have a grasp of what the agents are thinking, but he should also remember that he is in a position to make changes happen or quell the storm by at least addressing these issues. For example, the agency wide email briefly explaining why some agents haven't heard from the BDO concerning their cases. Good move, good email.

Mr. Brandon, I want to challenge you to go a step further. HQ personnel allegedly involved in events of Fast and Furious have been reassigned and new personnel have taken their places. HQ personnel involved in misdeeds have been shifted around. It's a time of change at HQ. Feast on this opportunity to better the bureau. Take the bull by the horns. Admit that some past practices were not particularly in the best interest of the bureau and tell us that those practices will not occur again. You already have field agent advisory panels in place. Listen to the suggestions. Make changes. Throw agents a bone and give us updates on issues voiced by these panels.

And as far as the discliplinary process and disparate treatment goes, why not have a period of amnesty regarding current allegations. Update the discliplinary computer fiiles, fix the BDO office, ensure IA is following all leads in cases of alleged misconduct, review the OCC to ensure they don't have their own agenda, give the accused fair warning and keep them working. It's a new regeme and there you sit with the power. Start over. Start now.

If people around you don't agree with this, then maybe they are part of the problem, not part of the solution. You will quickly find out who you can team up with to turn this agency around.

Wrongs have been done to agents in this bureau. Continued wrongs will be done to other agents in this bureau if we continue with business as usual. Stop it. Call an audible and get away from the "same ol ATF".

It's your chance and God has given us this day to make the best out of it. Tomorrow may be too late.

Just wanted to get that off my chest. I'm certain this is all easier said than done, but it's easier done by someone in Mr. Brandon's position than all of us street agents.

Im sure I'll be covered up with emails saying that I have wasted my time and yours by posting something as naive as this, but I would say desperate times call for desperate measures....Even unorthodox measures. Even a plea for a leader to be a leader...

I'll go back to watching squirrels play in the snow for now.

#28 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:56 AM

Medea was at Walmart in the customer service line digging in her purse for a receipt and guess what she found Tom? Two statements from agents that would clear one of the whistleblowers on charges brought by his secretary. This guy got 10 days off. Tom isn’t that more than Kelvin Crenshaw got? Now Tom, Madea sent these statements to I.A. years ago and asked that an investigation be conducted. You see, the I.A. agent ONLY interviewed those who could hurt this guy. The exculpatory statements were never followed up on by I.A. In fact, we don’t know if they were ever considered prior to the decision to suspend the agent. This is part of the second package that is being sent to you.

Tom, Madea is seeing a pattern here. You should review your recent letter about the problems with G. Elaine Smith, the previous BDO. Look over whatever memo you got from OCC regarding the due process technicality that cleared Kelvin. I think you have a mess on your hands Tom. Ooooops, Madea is next at Customer Service......WAIT A MINUTE!.......ELEANOR, IS THAT YOU?


#29 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:14 AM

Tom, it’s the three week anniversary of the first package. As far as we know, you have done nothing on this very easy first case. Madea is sending up the second one. This one is by far harder Tom. Quite frankly Tom, this one has been weighing down Madea’s purse. It’s a biggie. First of all Tom, it involves Bill Newell, Jim Needles, and Billy Hoover. Secondly, it involves a lie. I have been asking for a while for an I.A. investigation on this mess with no response from either Bob Schmidt or Gwen Golden. Since this lie has not been investigated, your esteemed lawyers consider it to be a “truth”. One of the whistleblowers is being hit over the head with this “truth” in his whistleblower case that is now being litigated.

For all you folks who have been following ‘Madea’s’ purse, are you seeing how they set you up? If ATF doesn’t investigate their managers, and we know they don’t, the managers have a clean file. If they don’t investigate their managers, which we know they don’t, they have an easier time setting you up with these managers’ lies.


#30 Doc Holiday

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:00 PM

Tom is by all accounts, a good Agent, a good Boss and a ethical leader. The big problem is, for whatever reason he seems to be going the way of Carter and Hoover. He CANT be everybody's friend. ATF Agents ONLY want to work and be backed. ATF Bosses in recent history don't have those same priorities. If he CANT or WONT pull the trigger on the John Torres', Crenshaws, Glory hole guys, Martins, Gleysteens, Horaces,Fords and FORCE some continuity, hes going to fail. We cant keep playing musical SACs. Give them their promotion and that's where they retire. Quit handing them SES' when they don't deserve them, and quit making everybody a damn GS 13. We need standards and accountability. Reward the worker, the professional bosses, and tell the others, (yes some are your friends and some are peers) to pack their trash. Their services are no longer needed. Credibility is everything. No more THEY wont let me do this or that. YOU ARE THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR. The agency has had NO problem tanking the careers of hard working agents, who have voiced their opposition to corrupt practices, so try taking out some of the ones who brought the corruption. Not rocket science. Force the authority back down to the Agents, RACs and SACs. There are far too many bosses who testify and give declarations in disputes who constantly say, "well that's what HQ told me to do, or that's what Chief Counsel told me to say". MAKE everybody make decisions, sign their names to their decisions and OWN THEM. We cant get accountability because all of them pass the buck up or down. Throughout my proud career, My bosses have always said THIS IS MY decision. And likewise I have had to do the same. Now bosses aren't forced to justify their actions without first calling Tara Scavo or Rachel Bouman or Valeri Bacon.

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:27 AM

Ok, So I am a little scared of what comes out of Medea's purse. Not because she spells her name two or three different ways. But .....I digress. I am a little scared because a vocal few have Brandon's attention. They spout some stuff (right or wrong) Brandon repsponds. I have no dog in this fight.. other than I love ATF. If we have issues address them directly. I dont care that you address ATF through the daily broadcast. Take care of those people that have issues. Right or wrong...deal with it and go on. This site is not the majority. Most of of ATF are rolling along with no issues. The loudest people are those that have been wronged. Deal with those people, be fair, be honest, be legitimate and be DONE. Firm, fair and consistent.


I certainly agree with all of the above except for the part about most employees rolling merrily along. Maybe you have not noticed, but the professionals are now doing studies on us AND being quickly overwhelmed by the sheer number of the "vocal few". These employees do much more than sit home and watch the squirrels. They also start to doubt, or even in some cases lose, their sanity. Regarding Madea... we do know she's off her meds right now and she loves Greek mythology. Maybe that explains the spelling of 'Medea' you clever boy.

#32 Swampdog

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:19 AM

To clarify, I have no outstanding issue with the BDO. I do not know anyone that does. Not that I believe any brother should be sitting at home watching squirrels (which is a hobby of mine) for over a year. That being said, send those people a direct e-mail and tell them their situation is gonna be handled. Then follow that up with action and decisions. Mr. Brandon is a good guy. A valiant guy, he is getting caught in the poliical river. Most of us still believe what can take place. Mission driven directives...not what admin wants, not what regulatory wants, we are all ATF, only dead fish swim with the stream.

#33 Swampdog

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:08 AM

Ok, So I am a little scared of what comes out of Medea's purse. Not because she spells her name two or three different ways. But .....I digress. I am a little scared because a vocal few have Brandon's attention. They spout some stuff (right or wrong) Brandon repsponds. I have no dog in this fight.. other than I love ATF. If we have issues address them directly. I dont care that you address ATF through the daily broadcast. Take care of those people that have issues. Right or wrong...deal with it and go on. This site is not the majority. Most of of ATF are rolling along with no issues. The loudest people are those that have been wronged. Deal with those people, be fair, be honest, be legitimate and be DONE. Firm, fair and consistent.

#34 Jaime3

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:48 AM

Allowing the violation of the No Fear Act is a lot bigger that what ATFs concerned with. The violation of the No
Fear Act is what a portion of complaints revolve around.

I'm sure Mr. Brandon is being pulled in many directions at this point, but he should really highlight a Zero Tolerance for that violation and the real consequences.

If he needs a good Angel on his shoulder, I would gladly assist. I know how hard it can be to swim with sharks, hoping you're not their next meal.

At this point, anything that can help because we know there are people in office who want ATF gone for good!

#35 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:09 AM

Medea has been in her purse again and she found some old prozac. They are a little fuzzy with lint, but she thinks they’ll still work. FAAP Panel, if you want suggestions for change, how about asking for mandatory training on Worker’s Comp, Disability Retirement, and the No Fear Act. Medea remembers that several employees have been booted without being told about Disability Retirement. Each of them was seeing doctors for work related stress caused by TOXIC managers. Some had their security clearances pulled because they sought rehab. WAIT A MINUTE, maybe Medea shouldn’t take this prozac.....it could come back to bite her in the ass like it did with those employees. Ok panel, are you ready to take this one on?

#36 Jaime3

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:51 PM

Hey Madea, your purse is full of corruption!
I just hope the people who want "Change" will take a look in your purse really really deep and really soon!

#37 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:29 AM

Medea has been digging around in her purse and she found some emails between the Office of the EEO and DSZ, Inc. For those of you who have filed a discrimination complaint, you know that this firm frequently leaves out exhibits you give them, ignores witnesses you identify, and sometimes they “help” you by telling you certain statements aren’t evidence when they are. Well Medea has found emails where DSZ, Inc. is telling ATF how to dismiss some of the allegations. OH, WAIT A MINUTE..........Medea just found something else behind her 8-track tapes. There are emails with ATF asking the Office of the EEO to approve the investigation plan before anybody contacts the complainant.

Medea is still not at the bottom of her purse....stay tuned.....





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