28 replies to this topic

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

If that in fact is true, AND I BELIEVE IT IS, Mr. Jones should be sanctioned, or the entire executive staff should be demoted, removed or salaries witheld until THE AGENTS and EMPLOYEES, say it has ceased. This is a NO BRAINER.

Issa has had to send yet another letter to the DOJ warning them against further retaliation of ATF employees. Here is an excerpt from Issa's latest letter dated July 1st:

ATF has earned a reputation for vindictiveness when it comes to retaliating against its employees. Unfortunately, despite prior assurances from senior ATF officials, it appears that Acting Director B. Todd Jones has yet to change this reputation, as he recently upbraided Special Agent John Dodson in a private meeting at ATF headquarters. These apparent attempts to silence critics of the Bureau are potentially illegal and certainly counterproductive.(2) As I have previously stressed, direct communications with Congress are both vitally important and protected by law.(3)

ATF's reputation is certainly well earned, goes back DECADES, and will NEVER be cleaned up until ATF management is completely gutted. Todays managers are no fluke. They have been bred into this agency. Just like many of us said after Waco, "Waco will happen again given the incompetence and corruption". F&F will also happen again for the exact same reasons, systemic corruption and incompetence.

You can read the entire letter on Sipsey Street.

[GoodWorker]

OK, I feel like I (and every other dedicated Agent and Inspector) just got kicked in the groin. First an anonymous letter goes from Chief counsel to the Attorney Generals Office whining that Mr. Brandon and Mr. Turk have allowed their HAND PICKED FAAP to expose(and post on open ATF web site) years of judicial misconduct, obstruction of Justice and unethical practices, and the potential solutions. Too bad, says our leadership, "if it ain't true, you got nothin to worry about", its stayin up.
THEN, Mr. Ceres writes a memo trying to quell the dissension he has inherited. Can he just rub their shoulders and encourage some of the good ones that aren't part of the corruption? Noooooo, in his opening line, he has to suggest that ONE or more of the members of the FAAP arent credible. YOU PICKED THEM. Mr. Ceres, we have watched the discredit the complainant games for years, we got that figured out. MUST we keep saying, Mclemore, Horace, Crenshaw, Ford, Hurst, G. Elaine, Vaklerie B, Potter, Hoover, Mc Mahon, Griffith???? We ALL know. It doesnt matter if Charles Manson makes the allegations if they are true, AND THEY ARE.
Then the FAAPS findings ONLY related to Chief Counsels accountability are pulled down for the Deputy Director to review. IF there is another explanation than Msrs. Jones, Brandon and Turk being bullied and told what to do by CCO, you better address it NOW and make it known to the field. Otherwise NO conclusion can be drawn except that Chief Counsels Countless atrocities are going to be concealed and protected and they are above accountability.

I hope someone investigates the Chief Counsels Office's (CCO) practices of portraying to the court that someone made a statement (favorable to their case)by redacting an item and then telling a judge what they hoped someone said. The judge will most likely belief this deceitful practice because the CCO attorneys are supposed to be people of high integrity when in fact most are not. Also go through the volumes of repetative documents, page by page, that they give you because they will bury what you are looking for in the middle of a large pile of worthless documents. There is a certain retired Internal Affairs SA who did the dirty work for the former regime, he too should be held accountable before the statute of limitations expires on his conduct. If there was a letter sent to the AGs office, that is a great indicator that people in the CCO are nervous about losing their jobs, getting indicted, and having to spend their own money on attorneys to defend themselves. Welcome to the club CCO.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Mr. Jones and Brandon,
We are a country who has spent decades chasing down Nazis to hold them accountable. We prosecute Heroes and Sports figures for far less egregious abuses than our CCO and our Leadership have committed in the last 5-7 years. The days "the beatings will continue until morale improves" are over. Nothing short of accountability, transparency AND reversing the damages this agency has created against so many of it employees will suffice. WE WILL NOT SHUT UP. We will NOT be intimidated. Notwithstanding your personal impeccable resume' and that of SEVERAL of your immediate staff, you have DECADES of ATF Knowledge and Experience, (not necessarily Acting Director Jones). We THE FIELD, have TENS OF THOUSANDS of years of DIRECT ATF Knowledge and Experience.The smart money would listen to US.We CAN NOT and WILL NOT move forward until the atrocity's of the RECENT past are reversed. Do NOT think for one minute that a group of HIGHLY educated and HIGHLY skilled Federal agents who face the nastiest and most violent criminals this world has to offer, will be told to sit down and shut up. Sidenote: Mr. Ceres, perhaps you should attack the misconduct in CCO instead of attacking those who expose it. Mr. Rubenstein, Ms. Loos, Ms. G. Elaine and Ms. Bacon did NOT make their hasty exits or get reassigned because they were good at their jobs. Had these attorneys done their job and protected the Agency instead of corrupt managers, we would not be having this public discussion on ANY of these matters. You are the ONLY one who can break the cycle. Virtually EVERY legitimate dispute now pending in the agency could and should have been resolved with a handshake yrs ago. Don't let the Bernie Madoff comment be your legacy in this agency and a self fulfilling prophecy.

Mr. Jones, is that the "Bernie Madoff" resolution? Hey whats happened has happened, get over it!!!! Do you really think for a minute sir, that we will ever accept the carnage you and yours have created without being compensated? Wake up, because this CAN and will get worse. OUR BUREAU.

[Iceman]

Mr. Jones, is that the "Bernie Madoff" resolution? Hey whats happened has happened, get over it!!!! Do you really think for a minute sir, that we will ever accept the carnage you and yours have created without being compensated? Wake up, because this CAN and will get worse. OUR BUREAU.

I agree Gunny - beautifully said Shadow. And of course, does anyone think that Jones is at ATF to do anything other than cover for Holder? Is that the reason Newel et al. are still not being investigated and are still drawing a paycheck after all this time? What unbelievable arrogance for Jones to tell the agents to shut up about yesterday, don't look back, just look ahead. Isn't that perfectly consistent with the massive cover-up of F&F? We have dead Americans and Mexicans and likely many more deaths in the future with F&F guns, but oh hell no, let's NOT look into yesterday to see just how the environment at ATF was such that a F&F was able to occur in the first place. Nope, let's not look back because that's where the evidence is.

This "small group" of people you refer to Mr. Jones as the problem, weren't they 40% of the entire agency? My question is, did management participate in the survey? If they did, that means that the percentage of the field mistrustful of ATF's leaders, is much higher than 40%. Way to go Mr. Jones. You just spit into the face of the field. You may as well said, "You people are idiots, now shut-up". By the way Mr. Jones, that attitude of 'keep the blinders on and don't ask questions', is EXACTLY why F&F was able to occur in the first place. And many of the people who brought us F&F would not have been in place had it not been for the agency's refusal to look into the conduct of it's attys and it's managers. Oh but that's right, you don't care about reform at ATF. Your job is to come into ATF and shut everyone up. Nice try.

[Patriot]

He did manage to get Clifton Powell to be the voice of ATF this summer. What? You never heard of him, neither has anyone else.

[GunnyT]

Well said Shadow!!

[The Shadow]

Mr. B. Todd Jones, take your quote and apply it to other past movements seeking Hope and Change of a corrupt overbearing system like say the Civil Rights Movement, or the Women’s Rights Movement or any Victim’s Rights Movements. “Get over it and move on. Those issues are in the past so stop dwelling on them. We have a small group of people that keep re-hashing these past issues instead on concentrating on the future and this small group is trying to influence the changes we are trying to make”. How do you think those courageous people would react to a person in authority saying such a thing to them, Mr. B. Todd Jones? Look it up and see how they reacted. Through the passage of laws and the punishment of the offenders, they stepped out of their second class citizenship and achieved equality. Do you think ATF employees want anything more than freedom from the separate but equal system ATF management currently has in place?

Let’s see how history has actually repeated itself in the management of ATF: Treating others in a discriminatory manner by unleashing the police dogs of ATF’s CCO and PRB, using harsher punishment against mere agents for ambiguous violations, while the overlords in power get away with blatant violations of not only the Orders but actual crimes. CCO bragging about abusing their power in the court system to bankrupt complainants. Sounds like Jim Crow all over again. “Get over it and move on. Those issues are in the past so stop dwelling on them. We have a small group of people that keep re-hashing these past issues instead on concentrating on the future and this small group is trying to influence the changes we are trying to make”.

I think it’s a good time to review the little propaganda meeting in Atlanta yesterday. B. Todd dismissed major concerns with, “Get over it and move on. Those issues are in the past so stop dwelling on them. We have a small group of people that keep re-hashing these past issues instead on concentrating on the future and this small group is trying to influence the changes we are trying to make”. Translation: Shut the hell up. Do not ask me any more questions about what I did yesterday. YOU are making me angry. YOU are just a small, insignificant group of ‘disgruntles’. YOU will NOT influence the changes I am pretending to make. Give me a break Todd. What you are saying is, ‘Don’t look at what I did TO you yesterday, look at what I’m telling you I will do FOR you tomorrow. I promise I’ll be a good boy from now on. Trust me. Here, take another sip of the Kool-Aid. You’ll like it, I promise’.

To the question about the ATF attys being under every desk and behind every door, Todd’s response was that there was a reorganization plan to determine the need for their advice in certain situations. At the risk of sounding redundant here, the FAAP panel recommended this reorganization. This recommendation was misguided. I’m sure the panel had the best of intentions, but you cannot reorganize a group of rats. Picture trying to herd a large group of rats. Think that will go well? If these attys are left in place, they will never sit quietly and do what they’re told. Remember, they run this outfit, not the other way around. No one can “reorganize” them. They make the rules now. Why? Because now there are so MANY of them.

To the IOI, Todd basically said, ‘we are a law enforcement agency and you don’t count’. Good move Todd.

Todd went on to say that ATF has a bright future and that the new ATF will be a small agency that works only quality investigations. Someone needs to tell Todd that every director before him has used this same line of crap at their pep rallies.

When asked why ATF didn’t fight the FBI over our explosive jurisdiction, he replied that we wouldn’t win. Again, Todd is telling us to shut the hell up and STOP fighting, to just lay down and do everything the nice man tells us to do. Is it that we won’t win Todd, or that you simply refuse to engage Mr. Part-Time Temporary Director?

When asked about the explosive canine program, we were told it would be cut due to the budget. Remember, we have all these attorneys in the OCC on the payroll creating very expensive litigation to justify their positions. We can’t afford dog food because of those bastards.

Then Todd goes on to say that the problem is that he doesn’t know how long he will be in this position. He said this like it was a bad thing. Um, Mr. Todd, please don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. This is just one of the many reasons you have no credibility Todd. We know you can tell us anything today because you will be gone tomorrow. Why is the taxpayer having to pay for these little pep rallies? What a colossal waste of money.

Speaking of wasting taxpayer money, how much did it cost to have 18 panel members fly to D.C. to meet with Brandon only to be told to shut the hell up.

Mr. Part-Time Temporary, it’s true that the group willing to stand in your face and tell you your baby is ugly is indeed small, but the group standing behind them and nodding their collective heads is the field. Did you not just read the survey?

[Patriot]

Just what I would expect from someone who has no vested long term interest in ATF. Like most political appointees, their only true interest is in whats next for them. We saw that with Sullivan who wanted to be everyones friend. I firmly believe he viewed everyone as a potential future constituent. My dad was fond of the "you get what you paid for" line. Well we didn't pay anything for Mr. Jones and we won't get anything from him.

[Doc Holiday]

OK, I feel like I (and every other dedicated Agent and Inspector) just got kicked in the groin. First an anonymous letter goes from Chief counsel to the Attorney Generals Office whining that Mr. Brandon and Mr. Turk have allowed their HAND PICKED FAAP to expose(and post on open ATF web site) years of judicial misconduct, obstruction of Justice and unethical practices, and the potential solutions. Too bad, says our leadership, "if it ain't true, you got nothin to worry about", its stayin up.
THEN, Mr. Ceres writes a memo trying to quell the dissension he has inherited. Can he just rub their shoulders and encourage some of the good ones that aren't part of the corruption? Noooooo, in his opening line, he has to suggest that ONE or more of the members of the FAAP arent credible. YOU PICKED THEM. Mr. Ceres, we have watched the discredit the complainant games for years, we got that figured out. MUST we keep saying, Mclemore, Horace, Crenshaw, Ford, Hurst, G. Elaine, Vaklerie B, Potter, Hoover, Mc Mahon, Griffith???? We ALL know. It doesnt matter if Charles Manson makes the allegations if they are true, AND THEY ARE.
Then the FAAPS findings ONLY related to Chief Counsels accountability are pulled down for the Deputy Director to review. IF there is another explanation than Msrs. Jones, Brandon and Turk being bullied and told what to do by CCO, you better address it NOW and make it known to the field. Otherwise NO conclusion can be drawn except that Chief Counsels Countless atrocities are going to be concealed and protected and they are above accountability.

[Thor God of Thunder]

I will be patient and wait to see what happens! There are some good moves that have been made....we will see wait and see...

[Doc Holiday]

To All:
In an attempt to consolidate posts and make the site more user friendly, we have tried to narrow the number of topics. Please make every effort to find an existing topic which most matches your concerns and issues that need addressing.

Sandy, it was not clear from Brandon's memo who exactly will be the BDO for the pending cases. There are still agents sitting at home who are caught up in the backlog of G. Elaine Smith and the rest of her vile tribe. Will another attorney be the BDO for these people? Maybe before we send out any kudos on this, we need more information. Smith left one very nasty wake behind her and these agents are drowning in it.