Jump to content


Todd and Tom continue to rule the agency through fear


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 ProConfesso

ProConfesso

    Regular

  • Validating
  • PipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Location10-20

Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:22 AM

The prevaricating, non-reading "facilitating transmittor," "ATF is my family," "the whole Bureau shares responsibility," "we look forward to the results of (the inspector general's report)" has abandoned ship. The ship of fools.

#2 Guest_Noah K._*

Guest_Noah K._*
  • Guests

Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:14 AM

If ATF tries to explain off anything in the OIG report, in my opinion they will make things only worse. The agencies only real option is to admit the guilt and terminate/prosecute the violators immediately. Without that type of display of seriousness the public will never trust ATF and the perception will be that ATF is sweeping Operation Fast and Furious under the rug.

#3 Guest_DavisLowrider_*

Guest_DavisLowrider_*
  • Guests

Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:08 AM

JOnes isn't making anything better he is making things worse. Has anyone else noticed that everything he touches turns to crap. Promotions, public statements, changecast videos and now talking about reform and accountablity and giving a sweetheart deal to one of the f&f idiots. Bad morale has gone from disgust to saddness. National news media are openly laughing at us. Watch the video to the end. He is bad for ATF and he has surrounded himself with people who all they do is appologize for him.

http://www.foxnews.c...econd-paycheck/

#4 ProConfesso

ProConfesso

    Regular

  • Validating
  • PipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Location10-20

Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:21 PM

If Chase sees fit to hire the mendacious rubber stamp (besides Grassley's letter to ATF I'm sure he'll be investigating how he was hired) it's time to find a new bank to do business with....and I'm sure the long awaited DOJ IG report will also address which ATF official saw fit to initially appoint the totem pole to the head OPR spot while under the F & F cloud - another steller ATF decision. All animals are equal, some are more equal than others.

Perhaps his first investigative action will be to turn over all customer banking info to the Philippines hacking underground..all mind you to sniff out the barrio boss. And now he'll have a good excuse for not reading the memos from Park Ave..he'll say he doesn't understand tagalog.

If Chase gave us unsupervised trading by the Whale of London he should fit right in.

#5 VINCENT A CEFALU

VINCENT A CEFALU

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 598 posts
  • LocationSAN FRANCISCO

Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:39 PM

NO WAY for the "VIOLENT CRIME BUREAU" to conduct the nation's business. But then, neither is retaliating against honest hard working Agents.

Below is my email to ATF, Congress and the OIG supplementing a report on government corruption at ATF.

I have personalized this situation but it applies to every ATF employee. Read the Washington Post story link. This is what we are up against when trying to find fairness at ATF. We get lied to, manipulated and leveraged by the same people who sanction favors to likes of Bill McMahon, an ATF "leader" who has blood on his hands from Fast and Furious.

We will always lose and they will always win - if we let them.


<!-- isHtml:1 --><!-- isHtml:1 -->

#6 Guest_Longhorn_*

Guest_Longhorn_*
  • Guests

Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:04 AM

Jones and his staff are responsible for this. He has been lying to us all along. Not that we didn't already know that but this just proves it.

#7 Jay A. Dobyns

Jay A. Dobyns

    Member

  • Moderators
  • 34 posts

Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:37 AM

Below is my email to ATF, Congress and the OIG supplementing a report on government corruption at ATF.

I have personalized this situation but it applies to every ATF employee. Read the Washington Post story link. This is what we are up against when trying to find fairness at ATF. We get lied to, manipulated and leveraged by the same people who sanction favors to likes of Bill McMahon, an ATF "leader" who has blood on his hands from Fast and Furious.

We will always lose and they will always win - if we let them.

***

From: Jay Dobyns [mailto:azjdob@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:23 AM
To: 'Castor, Stephen'; Donovan, Robert (Judiciary-Rep); 'Foster, Jason (Judiciary-Rep)'; 'Jason Chaffetz'; 'Whistleblower (Judiciary-Rep)'; 'HOTLINE, OIG (OIG)'
Cc: 'henry.lescault'; 'julie.torres'; 'Atteberry, Thomas G.'; 'Canino, Carlos A.'; 'Thomas.E.Brandon'; 'Joseph.J.Allen'
; 'Ronald.B.Turk';
Subject: RE: Reporting Government Corruption - August 22, 2012


Sirs and OIG Staff,

Please see my below message to ATF reporting corruption.

Also be aware that while Mr. McMahon has been double-employed at ATF and J.P. Morgan that J.P. Morgan holds the government credit card contracts that ATF uses.

ATF and DOJ are suing me civilly, a government employee, and doing so while withholding the documents that defeat their counterclaim against me.

In addition to public corruption their conduct is also a perversion of our justice system.

Much like the conspiratorial withholding of documents that you have experienced in your investigation of Fast and Furious, ATF and DOJ are knowingly, willingly and intentionally withholding documents from me that would defeat their counterclaim lawsuit against me and strategically doing so on the eve a decision before a Federal Judge on motions on the matter. They are intentionally denying me due process and fairness by withholding evidence in violation of the discovery and disclosure rules of our justice system. Make no mistake. This is not an accident or oversight. It is intentional and malicious and done so against every fiber of our legal system.

Respectfully,

Jay Dobyns

From: Jay Dobyns
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 8:52 AM
To: 'julie.torres'; 'henry.lescault'
Cc: 'Atteberry, Thomas G.'; 'Canino, Carlos A.'; 'Thomas.E.Brandon' 'Joseph.J.Allen'; 'Ronald.B.Turk';
Subject: Reporting Government Corruption - August 22, 2012


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/atf-official-also-holding-private-sector-job-congress-members-say/2012/08/21/48b92726-ebd7-11e1-a80b-9f898562d010_story.html

ATF official also holding private-sector job, Congress members say

Wait a minute.

ATF and DOJ are suing me for over a half million dollars for an alleged violation of ATF’s media policy and alleged violations of my outside employment agreement while at the same time sanctioning McMahon to work full time outside of ATF? The charges against me a fabricated, embellished are nothing more than a retaliatory prosecution, and McMahon gets greased? Bill McMahon? Are you serious? This is a double standard demonstration of the current ATF administration and blows up every single ChangeCast “pep talk” that we have been presented.

This is fraud, waste and abuse, public corruption, etc., etc., etc. and ATF is sanctioning it to the highest levels of the agency while doing everything within their power to wreck me financially? I don’t think so.

ATF and DOJ think they can pull this off behind everyone’s back, sue me, and then intentionally withhold from me the documents in ATF’s possession that would defeat the lawsuit against me? This is government corruption! This is disgusting! And, while telling me their hands are tied on my matters while they take care of the very guy in the chain-of-command that allowed Fast and Furious to take place and then lied to Congress about it? Ain’t happening while I sit here and get my head beat in every day. No way, no how do I take this one.

Who approved his double-dip employment while he pulls SES pay? It absolutely goes above the DAD level.

Who is validating his timesheets? Whoever is signing his timesheets is knowingly falsifying government documents.

I ain’t going away on this one. Trust me on this. I am going to pursue this one with everything I have. ATF doesn’t get to prosecute me while they try to sneak favors to McMahon behind everyone’s back. I demand some answers and I’m not waiting. You better get back to me quick and I don’t want to hear about the “process”. The “process” is a joke. Stall me on this one more day. Deny me one more day the documents and evidence that ATF is withholding from and see what happens.

And, in adherence with ChangeCast #8, I consider this message to be my reporting this corruption to ATF internally.


#8 Jay A. Dobyns

Jay A. Dobyns

    Member

  • Moderators
  • 34 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:15 AM

I thought the readers might be entertained by this email exchange. This is all pre-Fast and Furious.

After the arson of my house I reported to ATF Internal Affairs (Crenshaw) all the allegations that now, 4 years later, ATF themselves have proven to be true - criminal conduct, malfeasance, retaliation, cover-up, obstruction of justice, attempting to frame me, etc. All of the allegations are now known as accurate and proven to ATF's current administration.

ATF's Assistant Director of Internal Affairs Crenshaw ignored the allegations and circled the wagons for Newell and Gillett. Deputy Director Carter and Assistant Director Billy Hoover went along for the ride permitting all of them to administer the gunrunning operations.

Carter: "Sounds to me like he is trying to get us to do his investigation for his lawsuit." No, I was trying to get you to investigate the corruption of your subordinates.

Interestingly enough, this complaint also was sent to the ATF Ombudsman, Marianne Kettles, who did not respond to me but did forward the complaint to ATF’s Chief Counsel office.

Crenshaw gets ultimately removed as the AD (not for this, something else), sent back to Seattle as the SAC, gets terminated from that job and then immediately re-instated where he sits with full SES pay and benefits today.

ChangeCast #8 threatens discipline on employees who don’t pursue disputes internally.

“Jay, why do you air ATF’s dirty laundry in public?”

Well, internally you get nothing but cover-up and conspiracy to attack the complainant. Just ask Scot Thomasson on how they go about that (his quote with words to affect that he intends to dig up dirt on whistleblowers to f**k them). ATF today knows exactly what time it is on all of this, but nothing is done.

ATF is an “insane circus”.

From: Dobyns, Jay A.
To: Crenshaw, Kelvin N.
Sent: Mon Dec 29 03:34:44 2008
Subject: Request for Internal Investigation

Mr. Crenshaw,

This email message serves to request an official internal investigation and review of ATF’s response to, investigation of and ensuing suspect allegations related to the arson fire and attempted murder at my home occurring on August 10, 2008.

I allege to you that ATF conducted a corrupt response to these crimes. I allege that ATF managers knowingly and intentionally violated Federal law; ATF policy; ATF procedure; and, their professional ethics. I allege that ATF managers are guilty of a dereliction and malfeasance of their duties. I allege that ATF managers knowingly and willfully engaged in Fraud, Waste and Abuse and Abuse of Authority related to this matter. I allege that ATF managers acted in a retaliatory manner.

(Precise detail of the allegations was provided in the subsequent pages of the complaint.)

***
From: Crenshaw, Kelvin N.
To: Carter, Ronnie A.; Hoover, William .].
C:c: Massey, Kenneth
Sent: Mon Dec 29 05:12:40 2008
Subject: Fw: Request for Internal Investigation

PIs see below, I don’t have the history relating to Jay Dobyns’ below allegations. It seems to me we’ve been down this road, but am providing the below info for your digestion. Once we return, I would like to get with you both and maybe the person dealing the Dobyns issue from counsel and converse with you about this, if warranted. What I don’t want to do is address this again, particularly if it has already been addressed.

Kelvin N. Crenshaw
Assistant Director
OPRSO

***
From: Carter, Ronnie A.
To: Crenshaw, Kelvin N.; Hoover, William J.
C:c: Massey, Kenneth
Sent: Mon Dec 29 07:42:10 2008
Subject: Re: Request for Internal Investigation

Sounds to me like he is trying to get us to do his investigation for his lawsuit.

***
From: Crenshaw, Kelvin N.
To: Carter, Ronnie A.
Sent: Mon Dec 29 11:21:06 2008
Subject: Re: Request for Internal Investigation

I thought the same thing.

Kelvin N. Crenshaw
Assistant Director
OPRSO

#9 Doc Holiday

Doc Holiday

    Regular

  • Moderators
  • 568 posts
  • LocationClassified.

Posted 18 August 2012 - 11:40 AM

Has anybody heard of the OUTRAGEOUS SFFD failure in dealing with the Reno field office. There is apparently documentation that exists, that the United States Attorney generated which placed ATF on probation. SERIOUSLY. Word is Vind, Martin, Herkins, Thomasson, Turk et al caved and now set a precedent that we are no longer a free standing separate agency but our policy's and practices are DICTATED by the U.S. Attorneys office. You cant make this up. MORE TO FOLLOW.

#10 Zorro

Zorro

    Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 190 posts
  • LocationOld California

Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:02 PM

Mr. Grassley said it best.

As for Mr. Issa's comment - Amen. Sooner is better.

If a split is being seriously considered and Mr. Jones and/or Brandon says it clearly they will find it is not a new idea and many are on board already, both inside and outside the agency. Not that it will be easy - "trust but verify" applies and potential allies will not blindly jump in but a conceptual agreement may be reached quickly.

Same goes for moving the agency en masse out of DOJ.
The views and opinions expressed by the author are just that. They are not the official opinion of anyone anywhere in any capacity.

#11 Doc Holiday

Doc Holiday

    Regular

  • Moderators
  • 568 posts
  • LocationClassified.

Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:53 AM

Posted Today, 10:51 AM
We are at a loss for words. Go home Mr. Jones. Trash 40 years or contacts, technology, expertise, successes, brilliance recognized world wide, because you cant come up with an answer? Seriously? Do you understand that CONGRESS NOT DOJ codified our explosive jurisdiction? We think that trumps some DAGs memo. #1, you split compliance from Enforcement, you cripple criminal investigations regardless of what your catchy name is, " VCB" or whatever, WE ARE ATF PERIOD. Not ONE quality multi -defendant case in our history didn't have some sort of bombing component. We know Hoover and Riehl and Martin sold out our arson and explosives programs. GET EM BACK. Who's gonna do what we do? The FBI? The DEA? Of course not. NOBODY can. And it will take anybody who tries another 40 yrs to build the credibility, the contacts, the institutional knowledge. The SHORT and EASY path isn't always the best. Reach out to former Congressman and Chairman of appropriations Jim Lightfoot or Dennis DeConcini. They KNOW the value of this complete agency, you apparently do NOT have a clue. Come on Brandon and Turk, Step up before this agency is completely decimated. Out of curiosity, where is Traver? Why is he so silent? Silent leadership, NICE. We said it was coming and apparently it is. Read the following article and decide if you think this is silliness like we do.

By EVAN PEREZ


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives brings fewer than a hundred alcohol and tobacco cases a year. It now plays second fiddle to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on explosives. And its skill at catching firearms violators is in doubt after the flawed probe known as Fast and Furious.

No wonder the agency's boss is looking to reinvent it, and maybe even change its name.

The ATF is a Washington oddity, stitched together in the 1970s from units going back to the age of Prohibition. Gun-rights supporters are wary of it, yet they are also loath to see firearms regulation move to the FBI.

So the ATF survives, and acting director B. Todd Jones has to figure out what to do with it. "We're the entity that everyone loves to hate," said the 55-year-old former Marine.

Mr. Jones, who doubles as the U.S. attorney in Minneapolis, said he sees a "sweet spot" for the agency in tackling violent crime, particularly in some big cities like Philadelphia that have seen an increase in murders and drug-related shootings.

Hence an idea discussed by top ATF officials: ditching the agency's anachronistic seven-word name and rebranding it the Violent Crime Bureau. Mr. Jones confirms the discussions, but cautions it isn't easy because the change would require congressional approval. The bigger point, he says, is to improve the morale and professionalism of agents who often grumble about being overshadowed by the FBI.









Posted Image

Posted ImageBureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
ATF acting director B. Todd Jones confirms the embattled agency is considering seeking a name change to Violent Crime Bureau.


Since taking over last year as the ATF's fifth acting director in six years, Mr. Jones has tightened controls over undercover probes and confidential informants. New chiefs are in place in 16 field offices. And he consulted a historian to dig up proud moments in the agency's past. Legendary lawman Eliot Ness worked for an ATF predecessor known as the Bureau of Prohibition, leading his team of "untouchables" against the distilleries that made Al Capone rich.

A more recent history of the ATF would include some less-distinguished episodes, including the 1992 Ruby Ridge shootout in Idaho with a family that distrusted the government and the raid a year later on the Branch Davidian sect in Waco, Texas, that led to dozens of deaths.

Then, in 2009-10, the ATF Phoenix office's Fast and Furious operation let suspected smugglers buy some 2,000 firearms without being apprehended. Hundreds have since turned up at crime scenes, including an Arizona shootout that killed a U.S. border agent in December 2010.

The Republican-led House has held Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt as the White House cited executive privilege to block turning over some Fast and Furious documents.

Mr. Jones attributes Fast and Furious to a "catastrophic failure of leadership," and is beefing up risk management. Every month, he and his deputy, Thomas Brandon, convene briefings to get updates on major cases.

Former FBI Director Louis Freeh recalls looking at ATF's procedures as part of a plan to absorb the agency in the 1990s. He said he was impressed by the caliber of ATF agents but was struck that headquarters didn't have tighter reins on operations. "You have to have central control, not just emails giving you status reports," he said.





Posted Image

"They've had a cowboy mentality," said Sen. Chuck Grassley (R., Iowa), who has led the inquiry into Fast and Furious with Rep. Darrell Issa (R., Calif.).

Rep. Elijah Cummings, the top Democrat on Mr. Issa's House committee, said Congress is partly to blame because the Senate hasn't confirmed an ATF director since 2006 under pressure from pro-gun-rights groups.

"There's been an intentional effort to weaken this agency," Mr. Cummings said. The lack of a permanent director "provides fertile ground for these types of rogue operations because it kills any kind of accountability."

That is disputed by Lawrence Keane, general counsel of the National Shooting Sports Foundation. "I don't know anybody who thinks that anyone benefits from a dysfunctional ATF," said Mr. Keane.

Mr. Issa said he would support changing the name "if it goes with a narrowing and focus of mission" on violent crime. Another solution, he said, might be splitting the ATF by moving its law-enforcement duties to the FBI and leaving a separate gun-regulatory agency.

For the ATF these days, alcohol and tobacco investigations are a tiny part of the work. In 2010, there were fewer than 100 such cases initiated, compared with more than 500 arson and bomb investigations and about 10,000 firearms cases. Last year, the Justice Department gave the FBI primacy over explosives investigations involving terrorism.

To bolster the ATF crime mission, the agency is leading surges in cities from Oakland to New Orleans to target career criminals blamed for carjackings, murders and other gun crimes.

But a Violent Crime Bureau might invite resistance. The FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration want it known that they, too, chase violent criminals. Mr. Grassley said a name change is like "rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic."

Mr. Jones doesn't see the ATF as a sinking ship but agrees substance comes before branding. "If the name change happens, it's almost an aside," he said.

Write to Evan Perez at evan.perez@wsj.com



#12 Doc Holiday

Doc Holiday

    Regular

  • Moderators
  • 568 posts
  • LocationClassified.

Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:19 PM

This is what was received from a 20+ year veteran of OLD ATF. Simply put, he gets it and apparently Mr. Jones, Brandon and Turk do not yet get it. He is referring to the Houston article making excuses for this agency's shortcomings.

The major theory espoused by this journalist is just "convenient bullshit" as to ATF not being able to produce big impact cases due to the existing gun laws.

ATF has completed many large complex cases, the Fast & Furious fiasco was concocted by a crew of "glory Seekers" and "desk Jockeys" that somehow lacked basic investigative common sense. Like I told one of the female ATF agents involved in the case when she tried to defend their actions, Letting those guns walk is like turning your garden hose on in your basement and walking upstairs, eventually you are going to have major fucking problems!

As far as ATF having "only" 2,500 agents, during my entire career with ATF I encountered some real good, motivated, producing agents and a whole bunch of either lazy or incompetent paper pushers. The historical issues with ATF are bad managers and in the last decade the hiring procedures have only made the agent force worse.

#13 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

Guest_Sandy Davis_*
  • Guests

Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:15 AM

After seeing this posting of Kay's, David Codrea has written a great article exposing the latest attempt to spin ATF's current retaliation campaign into a tale of how much ATF reveres it's whistleblowers and wants to protect them from reprisals. Laughing here....Mr. Jones, apparently your advisors haven't clued you in so please allow me. The game you are playing is an old one at ATF. Everyone already knows the rules, they know the "choices", and they know the "consequences". If you are going to fool anyone, you might want to try something your employees haven't already seen hundreds of times before. You might also try reading CleanUp. We tried to tell you this wouldn't work. I'm just wondering why your wise advisors did not.

By the way Mr. Serres, maybe if you had listened to Madea instead of hanging upon her, you would have been able to advise Mr. Jones a little more wisely. Also, Madea would like to know what state you are licensed to practice in just for future reference. She's making a list and she's guessing you will be on it at some point. Thanks!

http://www.examiner....ng-new-concerns

Let’s see, the question as Madea understands it to be is, “is Chait a good guy or is Chait involved in the conspiracy to cover up the campaign to ‘F*** these guys” [F&F whistleblowers]. Now we all know the managers had been directed to “dig up dirt” at the time of this email. Remember folks, Thomasson was overheard saying these things right after F&F broke. The email from ATF atty Rossner is dated Feb. 8th 2011. Is the timing a coincidence? Madea thinks not. Madea thinks ATF atty Rossner was giving the managers instructions on how not to GET CAUGHT.

Madea has seen this particular move orchestrated by the esteemed attys at ATF so much it’s become ‘the movie she knows all the words to”. If you’ll notice in the email from atty Rossner, he’s telling the managers not to ask any of the whistleblowers if they are indeed whistleblowers. Because you see, if the managers asked the question and got caught retaliating, the managers could not claim they “DIDN’T KNOW” when the inevitable lawsuit goes before the MSPB or Federal Court. And in this case, you can believe these managers will go before congress and claim they “didn’t know he was a whistleblower at the time of the alleged reprisal”. This is an ATF standard that Madea hears every time it can be used. Remember, it’s the reason they always get someone else to sign the proposal letter to suspend/terminate, so the proposing official can say, “why, I had no idea he was a whistleblower”, or “I had no idea he had filed a complaint”. 'No idea' Madea’s ass.

Don’t forget folks, ATF is no novice at retaliating. They are extremely practiced. It’s the reason they get away with it so much. THEY’RE COVERING THEIR ASSES. But not to worry, Madea has LOTS of documentation showing this ATF standard, and the next time these jackals claim, “we didn’t know”, she will dig them out of her purse for whomever needs them.

Now, any bets on how many of the F&F co-conspirators who received a copy of this email will claim they didn’t know? Throw your money on the table. Madea claims 100%. And don’t even think of betting the same because Madea hates it when she to has to split the pot.



#14 Ontos

Ontos
  • Members
  • 2 posts
  • LocationNorthern Wisconsin

Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:04 PM

I havw to wonder if anyone at ATF has read the US Constitution, you know, the one they swore to uphold and defend? Or is it that nonne there has the balls to drop a dime on ANYONE involved?

As a combat veteran, I say "NO BALLS"!

Come on ....get it done!

#15 Ontos

Ontos
  • Members
  • 2 posts
  • LocationNorthern Wisconsin

Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:00 PM

Let’s see, the question as Madea understands it to be is, “is Chait a good guy or is Chait involved in the conspiracy to cover up the campaign to ‘F*** these guys” [F&F whistleblowers]. Now we all know the managers had been directed to “dig up dirt” at the time of this email. Remember folks, Thomasson was overheard saying these things right after F&F broke. The email from ATF atty Rossner is dated Feb. 8th 2011. Is the timing a coincidence? Madea thinks not. Madea thinks ATF atty Rossner was giving the managers instructions on how not to GET CAUGHT.

Madea has seen this particular move orchestrated by the esteemed attys at ATF so much it’s become ‘the movie she knows all the words to”. If you’ll notice in the email from atty Rossner, he’s telling the managers not to ask any of the whistleblowers if they are indeed whistleblowers. Because you see, if the managers asked the question and got caught retaliating, the managers could not claim they “DIDN’T KNOW” when the inevitable lawsuit goes before the MSPB or Federal Court. And in this case, you can believe these managers will go before congress and claim they “didn’t know he was a whistleblower at the time of the alleged reprisal”. This is an ATF standard that Madea hears every time it can be used. Remember, it’s the reason they always get someone else to sign the proposal letter to suspend/terminate, so the proposing official can say, “why, I had no idea he was a whistleblower”, or “I had no idea he had filed a complaint”. 'No idea' Madea’s ass.

Don’t forget folks, ATF is no novice at retaliating. They are extremely practiced. It’s the reason they get away with it so much. THEY’RE COVERING THEIR ASSES. But not to worry, Madea has LOTS of documentation showing this ATF standard, and the next time these jackals claim, “we didn’t know”, she will dig them out of her purse for whomever needs them.

Now, any bets on how many of the F&F co-conspirators who received a copy of this email will claim they didn’t know? Throw your money on the table. Madea claims 100%. And don’t even think of betting the same because Madea hates it when she to has to split the pot.



#16 Guest_madea_*

Guest_madea_*
  • Guests

Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:51 AM

I hope someone who knows weighs in. Either Chaite was attempting to do the right thing or he was covering his behind by appearing to follow the law. The latter would be more typical. Anybody???


Let’s see, the question as Madea understands it to be is, “is Chait a good guy or is Chait involved in the conspiracy to cover up the campaign to ‘F*** these guys” [F&F whistleblowers]. Now we all know the managers had been directed to “dig up dirt” at the time of this email. Remember folks, Thomasson was overheard saying these things right after F&F broke. The email from ATF atty Rossner is dated Feb. 8th 2011. Is the timing a coincidence? Madea thinks not. Madea thinks ATF atty Rossner was giving the managers instructions on how not to GET CAUGHT.

Madea has seen this particular move orchestrated by the esteemed attys at ATF so much it’s become ‘the movie she knows all the words to”. If you’ll notice in the email from atty Rossner, he’s telling the managers not to ask any of the whistleblowers if they are indeed whistleblowers. Because you see, if the managers asked the question and got caught retaliating, the managers could not claim they “DIDN’T KNOW” when the inevitable lawsuit goes before the MSPB or Federal Court. And in this case, you can believe these managers will go before congress and claim they “didn’t know he was a whistleblower at the time of the alleged reprisal”. This is an ATF standard that Madea hears every time it can be used. Remember, it’s the reason they always get someone else to sign the proposal letter to suspend/terminate, so the proposing official can say, “why, I had no idea he was a whistleblower”, or “I had no idea he had filed a complaint”. 'No idea' Madea’s ass.

Don’t forget folks, ATF is no novice at retaliating. They are extremely practiced. It’s the reason they get away with it so much. THEY’RE COVERING THEIR ASSES. But not to worry, Madea has LOTS of documentation showing this ATF standard, and the next time these jackals claim, “we didn’t know”, she will dig them out of her purse for whomever needs them.

Now, any bets on how many of the F&F co-conspirators who received a copy of this email will claim they didn’t know? Throw your money on the table. Madea claims 100%. And don’t even think of betting the same because Madea hates it when she to has to split the pot.


#17 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

Guest_Sandy Davis_*
  • Guests

Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:13 PM

I hope someone who knows weighs in. Either Chaite was attempting to do the right thing or he was covering his behind by appearing to follow the law. The latter would be more typical. Anybody???

Agreed - if Chait was trying to prevent retaliation, that should be acknowledged and weigh in his favor at some point as well as be used to prove willfulness regarding anyone who violated those protections and claims ignorance.

Question for you though - what did atty Roessner do that you see as unethical or inappropriate? Based on this e-mail it looks like he simply cited WB protections to include that law outweighs agency policy - which some of our personnel need to be advised of as common sense as it seems.

http://www.washingto...rmemo2-2011.pdf



#18 Zorro

Zorro

    Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 190 posts
  • LocationOld California

Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:00 PM

Agreed - if Chait was trying to prevent retaliation, that should be acknowledged and weigh in his favor at some point as well as be used to prove willfulness regarding anyone who violated those protections and claims ignorance.

Question for you though - what did atty Roessner do that you see as unethical or inappropriate? Based on this e-mail it looks like he simply cited WB protections to include that law outweighs agency policy - which some of our personnel need to be advised of as common sense as it seems.

http://www.washingto...rmemo2-2011.pdf
The views and opinions expressed by the author are just that. They are not the official opinion of anyone anywhere in any capacity.

#19 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

Guest_Sandy Davis_*
  • Guests

Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:16 PM

I'm curious. This article seems to indicate that Chait actually tried to do the right thing by the F&F whistleblowers at first (until of course an ATF atty stepped in). Does anyone have anymore info. If he did try to do the right thing, I think he should be acknowledged for it.

#20 Jay A. Dobyns

Jay A. Dobyns

    Member

  • Moderators
  • 34 posts

Posted 17 July 2012 - 03:52 PM

Sandy, as you know nothing, nada, zilch happens at ATF without the attorney's guidance, advise and more than anything - control. No decision of moderate significance on up is made before the attorneys wiegh in and counsel. The attorneys run this joint. Everyone else, regardless of title, are just followers.





Dave Workman has also written an interesting article entitled "Memo shows ATF recognized red flag of F&F whistleblowers". Note that before Chait sent out his memo (apparently just released), an ATF atty was involved. Once again, their fingerprints are all over everything in this agency. I can't wait to hear which attys were up to their eyeballs in F&F because we all know they were front and center as always.

http://www.examiner...._alerts_article




#21 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

Guest_Sandy Davis_*
  • Guests

Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:52 AM

Dave Workman has also written an interesting article entitled "Memo shows ATF recognized red flag of F&F whistleblowers". Note that before Chait sent out his memo (apparently just released), an ATF atty was involved. Once again, their fingerprints are all over everything in this agency. I can't wait to hear which attys were up to their eyeballs in F&F because we all know they were front and center as always.

http://www.examiner...._alerts_article

Another great article by David Codrea who broke F&F along with Mike V.

http://www.examiner....-coming-forward


And to our "fearless leaders", Todd and Tom:

As you continue in your campaign to intimidate your employees on a daily basis to keep their eyes closed, their ears covered, and most of all, THEIR MOUTHS FIRMLY SHUT, there is a rather large group who have crossed the line and no longer "give a shit" and are refusing to play the Melson Man Monkey Game.

Keep it up. That group is growing daily

To David and Mike, thanks for listening to us when the politicians were too busy to return our calls and the MSM wasn't interested because they were too busy covering the divorces of Hollywood celebrities.



#22 Guest_leaderofthetards_*

Guest_leaderofthetards_*
  • Guests

Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:57 AM

Another great article by David Codrea who broke F&F along with Mike V.

http://www.examiner....-coming-forward


And to our "fearless leaders", Todd and Tom:

As you continue in your campaign to intimidate your employees on a daily basis to keep their eyes closed, their ears covered, and most of all, THEIR MOUTHS FIRMLY SHUT, there is a rather large group who have crossed the line and no longer "give a shit" and are refusing to play the Melson Man Monkey Game.

Keep it up. That group is growing daily

To David and Mike, thanks for listening to us when the politicians were too busy to return our calls and the MSM wasn't interested because they were too busy covering the divorces of Hollywood celebrities.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users