18 replies to this topic

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

http://www.ticklethe...ake-a-silencer/

Why must we make enemies out of the firearms industry? We spent decades trying to work with FFL's and focus on violent criminals. Nowadays, we (ATF) are back to legislating from the Bureau.

[Doc Holiday]

Now the Secret Service is feeling OUR pain. Years and years of fast track (5-10 years) promotion to management? In the 70's and 80's, the supervisors in ATF had 12-15 years IN THE FIELD before anybody would seriously consider them for FIRST LINE management. Garbage in garbage out.

 

http://www.ticklethe...ys-real-prolem/

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

HUH???? How bad does it have to be when a judge will grant a restraining order against a Federal law enforcement agency? Has this EVER happened?


http://m.townhall.co...st-atf-n1808563

[ProConfesso]

It's frustrating when you have hard-working case agents and UCs that bust their ass doing GREAT cases and they go unnoticed by the press.  For every "Milwaukee" storefront (I'm not even convinced IT was a failure), you have a dozen that run smooth, with no issues, and are a complete success.  But we never hear about those.  The press only publicizes how ATF is a failure and we "have no business using these methods", and ATF just rolls over with its tail between its legs and takes it.  Grow some NUTS and respond with our accomplishments and success stories.  That is why morale sucks right now.  ATF will have a knee-jerk reaction and shuts down all operations when a story comes out like this because mgmt. is scared of bad press.  It's embarrassing.  Grow a sack already

I hardly think "that is why morale sucks right now." I can date happy atf press stories from the 1980's to the 2010's...with a full time s/a assigned as a press flack, er, PIO, paid well in 6 figures in the field divisions and in hq that can't be it.

[2009untouchable]

No, 2009 is unrelated to my ATF employment. I've worked many storefronts, both as a UC and as a case agent. I've also worked in 3 Field Divisions. Unless you worked directly in the Milwaukee storefront, then I guarantee I have more information than you.

This site is filled with people who couldn't hack it as an ATF agent (Jay Dobyns not included) that love to bitch about stuff, when fact of the matter is they were poor Agents. And don't give me the "I had good evaluations" excuse. Everyone knows those reviews are a freaking joke. If you base your productivity on a review, you're an even bigger idiot than you appear.

You posted anonymously on here, so let's hear your name, hotshot. Go so some nics cases. Slug

[texan]

So if I understand you correctly 2009untouchable, ATF had nothing to do with the botched storefront, it was just a disgruntled landlord. I suppose you have worked on many storefronts, know BJ Zapor personaly and are ready to testify in court that the landlord stole the machine gun, caused cases to be dismissed by state prosecutors and and all the other problems. Did you ever ask yourself why the landlord was disgruntled? I'm sure you have because you seem to have all the answers.

Why don't you give your real name so we can call you to testify before congress later this month in the storefront hearings. Maybe you can also testify about F & F since you have all the answers.

Did you come on with ATF in 2009? You sound like the worlds greatest expert on ATF. Maybe you should be the director. How many divisions have you worked in? How many cases have you successfully prosecuted?

I am sure this same landlord personaly transported a couple weapons over the borde to Mexico also. He must be a busy guy. Maybe you should open a case on him and save the world.

[Doc Holiday]

When I mention how the hardworking agents are bad mouthed- I was speaking of the press. Not other agents or ATF.

The reason the Milwaukee storefront went sour is mainly because of a disgruntled landlord. Granted there were things that could have been done better, but that is true with EVERY case. Someone broke into the store and stole counterfeit merchandise? How is that the atorefront's fault?

The press argues that the government paid too much money for guns, but if the UC's let the guns walk out the door, then they would have been hammered for that. It's a no-win situation. The press also argues that crime was being introduced into the neighborhood. Look at the crime statistics- crime was already there.

 

When I mention how the hardworking agents are bad mouthed- I was speaking of the press. Not other agents or ATF.

The reason the Milwaukee storefront went sour is mainly because of a disgruntled landlord. Granted there were things that could have been done better, but that is true with EVERY case. Someone broke into the store and stole counterfeit merchandise? How is that the atorefront's fault?

The press argues that the government paid too much money for guns, but if the UC's let the guns walk out the door, then they would have been hammered for that. It's a no-win situation. The press also argues that crime was being introduced into the neighborhood. Look at the crime statistics- crime was already there.

How many mentally disabled folks have you tattooed to buy a few stolen guns? For that matter, how many gave you documented? Look, this agency lost its was and in the process ran off many many seasoned veterans who would have clearly helped guide these investigations away from school yards, documented criminals not mentally challenged. That's about the lowest we can set the bar don't you think? No expects to do this job without mistakes. BUT, they should be at least marginally defensible. Anyone who has been a UC agent for any amount of time KNOWS and anticipates how to skirt such issues as being suspected of being a cop. Bush league.

[2009untouchable]

When I mention how the hardworking agents are bad mouthed- I was speaking of the press. Not other agents or ATF.

The reason the Milwaukee storefront went sour is mainly because of a disgruntled landlord. Granted there were things that could have been done better, but that is true with EVERY case. Someone broke into the store and stole counterfeit merchandise? How is that the atorefront's fault?

The press argues that the government paid too much money for guns, but if the UC's let the guns walk out the door, then they would have been hammered for that. It's a no-win situation. The press also argues that crime was being introduced into the neighborhood. Look at the crime statistics- crime was already there.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

No one to my knowledge has every criticized the hardworking field agents. However, working hard is NOT an excuse for incompetence or foolish actions as in The Milwaukee debacle. The mere fact that you would support such bush league actions suggests you are so new that you never learned how to do it right, or your a true believer ie have drank the kool-aid. A universally respected major case UC agent recently said"hell if we could have done all that silly stuff, our job woulda been so much easier" But 09 we dont get to act that way. We are the good guys. We dont need positive media every time we do a good job. THATS WHAT THEY PAY US TO DO. THE NEGATIVE media will stop when WE stop doing stupid shit.

It's frustrating when you have hard-working case agents and UCs that bust their ass doing GREAT cases and they go unnoticed by the press. For every "Milwaukee" storefront (I'm not even convinced IT was a failure), you have a dozen that run smooth, with no issues, and are a complete success. But we never hear about those. The press only publicizes how ATF is a failure and we "have no business using these methods", and ATF just rolls over with its tail between its legs and takes it. Grow some NUTS and respond with our accomplishments and success stories. That is why morale sucks right now. ATF will have a knee-jerk reaction and shuts down all operations when a story comes out like this because mgmt. is scared of bad press. It's embarrassing. Grow a sack already

[2009untouchable]

It's frustrating when you have hard-working case agents and UCs that bust their ass doing GREAT cases and they go unnoticed by the press.  For every "Milwaukee" storefront (I'm not even convinced IT was a failure), you have a dozen that run smooth, with no issues, and are a complete success.  But we never hear about those.  The press only publicizes how ATF is a failure and we "have no business using these methods", and ATF just rolls over with its tail between its legs and takes it.  Grow some NUTS and respond with our accomplishments and success stories.  That is why morale sucks right now.  ATF will have a knee-jerk reaction and shuts down all operations when a story comes out like this because mgmt. is scared of bad press.  It's embarrassing.  Grow a sack already

[Lone Wolf]

...and I can't get anyone interested in prosecuting people who definately straw purchase guns for prohibited people...

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Bad cases make bad case law. With thugs and gangsters running around shooting up our communities, ATFs leadership somehow thought this case would enhance public safety? This case cleared 3 levels of review inside ATF AND then again by the U.S. Attys Office. SHORT VERSION: RETIRED COP BUYS A GUN AT A BETTER PRICE FOR HIS UNCLE, AND UNCLE REPAYS HIM. VIOLATION? PERHAPS. FEDERAL CRIMINAL INTEREST? YOU DECIDE. I'M REASONABLY CERTAIN A STERN WARNING FROM ATF WOULD HAVE ENDED THE WHOLE MATTER.
http://bearingarms.c...kground-checks/

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Thor, unskilled supervisors who rise w/o significant field experience led to this epidemic of embarrassing sequence of events. The problem is, smoke and mirrors, shuffling the deck chairs ain't gonna get that Genie back in the bottle. You can't retroactively bring these 6 and 7 yr wonders up to speed. The ONLY hope would be leadership and all we are getting is mantras and motivational slogans. All those responsible in each of the epic failures are still bosses and at best have been moved to their office of preference. Same shit different day.

Oh yeah and a souvenir store. Final thought, just spoke to a supervisor going thru supervisor school in HQ. THEY SAID IT IS 75% ADMIN AND ADVERSE ACTION 20% PAPERWORK AND 5% MISSION RELATED. ITS NOT THE PAPERWORK THAT HAS OUR VERY EXISTENCE IN TROUBLE DIRECTOR JONES. SINCE YOU INVOKED YOUR MARINE CORPS PEDIGREE ALL THE TIME, SO WILL I. JUST AS EVERY MARINE IS A RIFLEMAN SO SHOULD EVERY AGENT BE A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENT FIRST AND A BUREAUCRAT AND MANAGER 2ND.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Thor, unskilled supervisors who rise w/o significant field experience led to this epidemic of embarrassing sequence of events. The problem is, smoke and mirrors, shuffling the deck chairs ain't gonna get that Genie back in the bottle. You can't retroactively bring these 6 and 7 yr wonders up to speed. The ONLY hope would be leadership and all we are getting is mantras and motivational slogans. All those responsible in each of the epic failures are still bosses and at best have been moved to their office of preference. Same shit different day.

Rogue Tactics and direct quotes from the article that the webmaster shared:
 
 
"According to the newspaper report, ATF agents also befriended mentally disabled people to spread the word about the gun buyback programs and manipulate them to help during stings."
 
"In Wichita, Kan., ATF agents referred to a man with a low IQ as 'slow-headed' before deciding to secretly use him as a key cog in their sting," the paper reported. "Agents in Albuquerque, N.M., gave a brain-damaged drug addict with little knowledge of weapons a 'tutorial' on machine guns, hoping he could find them one." Other questionable activity was reported in Atlanta, Ga." 
 
"Like in Milwaukee, agents set up several undercover gun- and drug-buying operations near churches and schools. They let minors to come in, play video games, smoke marijuana and drink alcohol. "
 
"In Portland, ATF agents allegedly used a scantily clad officer to lure in teenage boys and encouraged them to bring weapons and drugs to the store to sell."
 
These activities are immoral and really low for anyone.  These actions are tantamount to taking advantage of children.  This is disgusting!  How can this be permitted and who will be held accountable for these actions that have brought so much negative publicity to ATF?
 
What do we have for managers in different parts of the country?  F Troop?  Gilligan from Gilligan's Island?  My God and ATF still attempts to defend this????  Take your punishment, admit this was wrong , apologize for these actions and move forward.  This is the only thing that will bring back credibility to this agency.  Good luck with that!!

Rogue Tactics and direct quotes from the article that the webmaster shared:
 
 
"According to the newspaper report, ATF agents also befriended mentally disabled people to spread the word about the gun buyback programs and manipulate them to help during stings."
 
"In Wichita, Kan., ATF agents referred to a man with a low IQ as 'slow-headed' before deciding to secretly use him as a key cog in their sting," the paper reported. "Agents in Albuquerque, N.M., gave a brain-damaged drug addict with little knowledge of weapons a 'tutorial' on machine guns, hoping he could find them one." Other questionable activity was reported in Atlanta, Ga." 
 
"Like in Milwaukee, agents set up several undercover gun- and drug-buying operations near churches and schools. They let minors to come in, play video games, smoke marijuana and drink alcohol. "
 
"In Portland, ATF agents allegedly used a scantily clad officer to lure in teenage boys and encouraged them to bring weapons and drugs to the store to sell."
 
These activities are immoral and really low for anyone.  These actions are tantamount to taking advantage of children.  This is disgusting!  How can this be permitted and who will be held accountable for these actions that have brought so much negative publicity to ATF?
 
What do we have for managers in different parts of the country?  F Troop?  Gilligan from Gilligan's Island?  My God and ATF still attempts to defend this????  Take your punishment, admit this was wrong , apologize for these actions and move forward.  This is the only thing that will bring back credibility to this agency.  Good luck with that!!

[Thor God of Thunder]

Rogue Tactics and direct quotes from the article that the webmaster shared:

 

 

"According to the newspaper report, ATF agents also befriended mentally disabled people to spread the word about the gun buyback programs and manipulate them to help during stings."

 

"In Wichita, Kan., ATF agents referred to a man with a low IQ as 'slow-headed' before deciding to secretly use him as a key cog in their sting," the paper reported. "Agents in Albuquerque, N.M., gave a brain-damaged drug addict with little knowledge of weapons a 'tutorial' on machine guns, hoping he could find them one." Other questionable activity was reported in Atlanta, Ga." 

 

"Like in Milwaukee, agents set up several undercover gun- and drug-buying operations near churches and schools. They let minors to come in, play video games, smoke marijuana and drink alcohol. "

 

"In Portland, ATF agents allegedly used a scantily clad officer to lure in teenage boys and encouraged them to bring weapons and drugs to the store to sell."

 

These activities are immoral and really low for anyone.  These actions are tantamount to taking advantage of children.  This is disgusting!  How can this be permitted and who will be held accountable for these actions that have brought so much negative publicity to ATF?

 

What do we have for managers in different parts of the country?  F Troop?  Gilligan from Gilligan's Island?  My God and ATF still attempts to defend this????  Take your punishment, admit this was wrong , apologize for these actions and move forward.  This is the only thing that will bring back credibility to this agency.  Good luck with that!!

[Doc Holiday]

Nope RETIRED, you are not slow. We have gone from the top 20 places to work a mere 7 years ago and are near the very bottom now. That ain't coincidence. But Mr Jones and Brandon are trying to sell that all is well. Pay particular attention to our rating in the trust and confidence in the executive staffs honestly and integrity. I didn't do the survey, THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT DID.

[Retired and loving it]

Doc, I am a little slow on understanding this stuff so for the help other any readers like me, I'll suggest that they just go near to the bottom of each list.  That is where they will find ATF.

 

It's interesting that the portion of the "old" ATF that was tossed aside by today's ATF is near the top of each list!

 

I guess that says something about former management as compared to that which exits today.

[Doc Holiday]

WOW

 

 

 

 

 

 

Score Rank of 292 Index Score 59.1 203 Scores by Category Score Rank (out of varied totals) Effective Leadership 46.0 277 of 290 Effective Leadership - Empowerment 42.8 240 of 290 Effective Leadership - Fairness 44.2 272 of 290 Effective Leadership - Senior Leaders 31.9 284 of 290 Effective Leadership - Supervisors 62.6 212 of 290 Employee Skills/Mission Match 78.6 109 of 290 Pay 71.8 16 of 290 Strategic Management 48.6 266 of 290 Teamwork 62.8 230 of 290 Training and Development 55.1 209 of 290 Work/Life Balance 59.9 187 of 290 Support for Diversity 49.9 273 of 290 Performance Based Rewards and Advancement 39.8 249 of 290