8 replies to this topic

[BeenThereDoneThat]

You are preaching to the choir. I believe that the problem with ATF management is much more serious than unethical behavior; it is the illegal behavior that bothers me.

In fact, I recently read the March 1, 2000 Public Report regarding the corruption within the Los Angeles Police Department (It was 371 pages). I found the following excerpt interesting:

"The most comprehensive analysis of police corruption appeared in the recently released United
States Department of Justice report entitled “Misconduct to Corruption, Avoiding the Impending
Crisis.” This report defines police corruption as, “Any prohibited act involving use of an
officer’s official position for actual or expected material gain.” The report found that police
corruption was influenced by a combination of factors including:

•?Greed;
•?The drug culture;
•?Changing societal values;
•?Poor recruitment and hiring;
•?Lack of effective entry level and in-service ethics training;
•?Poor first-line supervision and field training;
•?Lack of early warning systems;
•?An inadequate and inconsistent disciplinary process;
•?Lack of executive staff support for Internal Affairs investigative entities;
•?Personnel working together too long;
•?Union interference;
•?Lack of organizational core beliefs (values);
•?Lack of leadership, accountability and responsibility; and,
•?Poor role models.

The report found that complacency breeds misconduct, misconduct leads to corruption,
corruption becomes corrosive, and corrosion becomes organizationally debilitating and long term
in its impact on agency morale and public trust. It also noted that corruption increases in direct
proportion to the degree in which a police department accepts abusive practices as a norm. In
addition to addressing the fifteen factors, the report concluded that an agency had to establish
and maintain a culture of accepting nothing less than total integrity from its current as well as
prospective members if it was to prevent corruption from occurring. This included the agency’s
top managers down to its entry-level employees."

I do not believe that the corruption in ATF has become as vast as what happened in the late 1990's in Los Angeles.

The people posting in this forum want nothing less that TOTAL INTEGRITY at ATF.

The fact that this website has been blocked by the Department of Justice so that employees cannot read/inform/participate while at work, BEGS THE QUESTION.....

Why does the Department of Justice issue reports such as “Misconduct to Corruption, Avoiding the Impending
Crisis.”, then prevents an Agency from trying to remedy the situation -- as they described in their reports?

Eric Holder, take an active role in getting to the truth -- as YOU can avoid the impending crisis.

[Thor God of Thunder]

My greatest fear is that someone from the outside, looking in, may only see the bad.

We do not want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are hundreds of terrific employees at ATF, doing their job. The support staff is especially vulnerable, as they see the day-to-day internal workings of managers, but are easily disgarded if they speak up.

There are a few nests of corrupt individuals that are exploiting their positions for self-serving gain; they need to be exposed. It may be easier for us to spot corruption, because we are trained to detect/arrest criminal activity and criminals. The corruption is painfully obvious to us.

For the last 22 years, the issue is the same. We have very abusive and heavy handed management.

"It is time to split the baby!"


This website is not alleging that there is nothing good about ATF. It is out of concern and love for the agency that some of us risk being sanctioned and retaliated against to bring forth and highlight the abuses, which would not be tolerated if we perpetrated the same.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

I understand your point, and this website is not intended to be "only about ATF management bashing". However, ATF management already does a pretty good job at blowing its own horn (at the agency-wide level, and occasionally, a particular investigation or operation level, and far more rarely, the individual agent level). They don't really "need" CUATF.org for that. So, although this site is absolutely amenable to discussing stories of excellence (particularly involving individual employees), that really isn't the focus.

And hey, if ATF management ever stops acting like a bunch of lawless, dictatorial, unethical, abusive, malicious thugs to its own employees (even in a few isolated instances), we'll be happy to point that out. Until then, let's keep our eye on the ball and carry on people.

You are preaching to the choir. I believe that the problem with ATF management is much more serious than unethical behavior; it is the illegal behavior that bothers me.

In fact, I recently read the March 1, 2000 Public Report regarding the corruption within the Los Angeles Police Department (It was 371 pages). I found the following excerpt interesting:

"The most comprehensive analysis of police corruption appeared in the recently released United
States Department of Justice report entitled “Misconduct to Corruption, Avoiding the Impending
Crisis.” This report defines police corruption as, “Any prohibited act involving use of an
officer’s official position for actual or expected material gain.” The report found that police
corruption was influenced by a combination of factors including:

•?Greed;
•?The drug culture;
•?Changing societal values;
•?Poor recruitment and hiring;
•?Lack of effective entry level and in-service ethics training;
•?Poor first-line supervision and field training;
•?Lack of early warning systems;
•?An inadequate and inconsistent disciplinary process;
•?Lack of executive staff support for Internal Affairs investigative entities;
•?Personnel working together too long;
•?Union interference;
•?Lack of organizational core beliefs (values);
•?Lack of leadership, accountability and responsibility; and,
•?Poor role models.

The report found that complacency breeds misconduct, misconduct leads to corruption,
corruption becomes corrosive, and corrosion becomes organizationally debilitating and long term
in its impact on agency morale and public trust. It also noted that corruption increases in direct
proportion to the degree in which a police department accepts abusive practices as a norm. In
addition to addressing the fifteen factors, the report concluded that an agency had to establish
and maintain a culture of accepting nothing less than total integrity from its current as well as
prospective members if it was to prevent corruption from occurring. This included the agency’s
top managers down to its entry-level employees."

I do not believe that the corruption in ATF has become as vast as what happened in the late 1990's in Los Angeles.

The people posting in this forum want nothing less that TOTAL INTEGRITY at ATF.

[Need2Know226]

Being new to this site and these blogs I must ask a couple questions - what constitutes a "violation of rights"? How is "corruption" defined? And, who are the last three "Directors"? In the last four years there's only been ONE Director - Truscott (and he got run out of town) - Dominich, Sullivan, Carter and Melson were/are "actors." Hellen Keller could easily "see" how inept ATF management is after 5 minutes in the HQ. There are many ADs/DADs/Branch Chiefs whose heads would explode if they had to make - not just think about making or deligating - a decision. I look forward to future opportunities to add my two-cents. Especially as how I am NOT and 18XX and feel like most decisions are prefaced with "BOHICA" - let me know if that needs defining. N2K

[Doc Holiday]

The work of the field speaks for itself. This is not about a rogue agency. Its about rogue management and lack of leadership. Mr. Melsons "Speak up" plea was shallow and massaginistic. Stop posturing Mr. Melson. If you dont mean it dont say it. Dont let BAD counsel drag you down as it has the last 3 Directors. Man up Mr. Melson.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

My greatest fear is that someone from the outside, looking in, may only see the bad.

We do not want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are hundreds of terrific employees at ATF, doing their job. The support staff is especially vulnerable, as they see the day-to-day internal workings of managers, but are easily disgarded if they speak up.

There are a few nests of corrupt individuals that are exploiting their positions for self-serving gain; they need to be exposed. It may be easier for us to spot corruption, because we are trained to detect/arrest criminal activity and criminals. The corruption is painfully obvious to us.

[ATFemployee]

Fellow CUATF members and readers, I think that it is very important to unite with our fellow employees concerning these unethical violations by ATF management. I have heard of many situations that involve other ATF employees such as IOIs and support personnel. ATF management is not prejudice when it comes to violating rights and making unethical decisions. I encourage employees in all classifications to post information here with the hopes of bringing sunlight to the dark actions of management. I am sure there are others like me who read this site but haven't posted yet. I will be posting my intel that I have about the actions and inactions of management. Since Melson and others "want" (we know this is just pc)information but don't allow a way to actually receive that information, we should use this site with the understanding that management views the postings. Let them know that we know their ways and deeds and we will hold them accountable. I also suggest that each person direct their Congressmen to this site. Let us all unite because we can't afford to let the mold grow in any crack of the Agency.