121 replies to this topic

[Doc Holiday]

Things to watch for: Ms. Loos and crew cancelled or continued significant meetings, hearings,telecoferences with the Judge and depositions 4 (four) times based on undisclosed illness or medical reasons. They have done this on consecutive cases, (fairly unhealthy bunch up there). Then they will advise the court (after the usual "too Broad", "not relevant" cut and paste oppositions) to your request for documents that "the agency IS NOT AWARE of any documents that are responsive to your request. They will do this 2-3 times. Then on the 11th hour, they will be dropped in your lap by the 1000's, making it costly and very difficult to review and use what they have sent you. These defense attorney like actions MUST be challenged. Press your attorney to ask for sactions AS SOON as they do this. If your Attorney does not want to take this action(probably because he/she believes ATF government attorneys are somehow ethical) then fire your attorney and get one who will shut down this sort of conduct. Remember Transparency is the word of the day. You dont withold documents if there is nothing to hide.

[Thor God of Thunder]

Extending discovery - NEVER EXTEND DISCOVERY In order for you to extend discovery, you and the agency have to agree in writing. Do not agree. This is another way of the agency stalling and not providing you with anyhting. If you are going to pursue the agency, you better have all of the evidence you need prior to filing your complaint. The agency does not provide discovery if they know you are going to win. They just hope that you screw up and do not have enough evidence to prevail. They also do not want their officials on the stand. The extension of discovery is a waste of time.

[Thor God of Thunder]

This is a great posting. It displays the historical side of what this website is addressing. It is also an honest statement. When "Retired and loving it" can post up and express his/her frustrations with our past and present leadership and confirm the double standard that is huge. Loos's non-ethics and bullying methods are no secret. They are at the core of ATF's inability to make proper and fair decisions on personell matters. She has lead the executives around by the nose for years and years. A few of her most agregious tactics are about to be "outed" and when they are her conduct as ATF's lead ethics attorney is going to be a real eye opener. Stayed tuned.

This and the "Retired and loving it" posts are AWESOME and lets us know that we are on the right track. Loos' contempt, loathing and disdain for special agents, industry operations investigators or any employee that airs a complaint at any level will come to an end hopefully sooner than later.

[Retired and loving it]

Doc, you are so right about Ms. Loos. Years back I was a personal friend of the then Chief Counsel. Even he didn't like Loos. Regretably, she survived him and several other Chief Counsels. I don't have a lot of respect for the current guy; all he does is talk a lot -- even more than most attorneys! I wish all of you folks success in cleaning up the management cesspool. If it doesn't get cleaned up, I fear that ATF is doomed as an agency. I saw the start of what is now "leading" the organization in the late 90s. I regretably admit that I was once part of the so-called Executive Staff and things were not much different then -- one set of rules for some people and a completely different set for others. I found that I didn't want to be part of such a characterless group so I left. Maybe I should have stuck it out and fought harder but I was just one person and felt that I really couldn't make any difference. At my age, there just wasn't the necessary extent of fight left in me. I hope that people like you can continue the battle as I still have many friends within ATF and I don't want to see them suffer at the hands of unacountable, egotistical "leaders" who don't have the vision to see across the street. Cheers to all of the worker bees.

[Retired and loving it]

x

[Thor God of Thunder]

Timelines

1. Remember that you have 45 days to contact an EEO counselor from the time of the discrimintory or retaliatory incident.

2. The EEO counselor has 30 days to resolve your case informally.

3. You can file a formal EEO complaint on DOJ form 201A, without receiving the final counseling letter if the EEO counselor waits too long. Make sure you include a certificate of service.

4. You may elect to have a Hearing or a Final Agency Decision. The best thing to do is to have a Hearing. This way the matter is investigated and there is a discovery period. It takes longer but you are provided with information, which you may not otherwise receive.

5. After you file your formal complaint, the Agency has 180 days to conduct an investigation into the discriminatory incident.


6. If the agency fails to follow any of the timelines, you need to bring it to the attention to the Judge and make sure that on appeal you bring it up too. Especially, if they do not conduct an investigation or produce answers to interrogatories or provide documents.


7. Make sure that you follow the acknowledgement order and keep to the timelines and do not extend the discovery. The agency always wants to extend discovery.

8. I have come to realize that these "administrative judges" seem to be in bed with the agencies, unless you have an attorney and/or know what you are talking about.

Notwithstanding, you are fighting "City Hall" so it is not a walk in the park, even if you are able to prove your case. They stall, cheat, lie and steal to win. They are not honorable and/or have any morales at all so do not think of Loos and her henchmen/goons as decent human beings because, they are not!

Ultimately, I believe they want you to take them to Federal court in order to pay you any significant amount of money, unless they know you can outright win hands down. Eventhough, they did settle the Stankiewicz harrassment case without going into court because it was clear that there was a violation to an agreement of no contact.

I hope this is helpful.

[Thor God of Thunder]

After being deposed by two of Loos' henchwomen [and informing them that my former supervisor, "Agent One-Case," perjured himself], I was asked if I was interested in settling. As I said from Day One of my EEO complaint, first to the EEO counselor, then to Tony Torres [who read my e-mail a year after I sent it], then to the contract investigator, then several times to ATF counsel, YES, I AM INTERESTED IN SETTLING.
A week later I gave them a dollar amount, based on similar cases as decided by the EEOC. They offered me a transfer to a place I didn't ask to go to, and that One-Case would no longer be my supervisor [AFTER he already got a new job which he said was in his career's best interests]. I countered with a lower dollar offer.
A couple of weeks later, ATF counsel said that they were no longer interested in settling.

I wish this website were around back then. I would have kept those lawyers in town until an agreement, WITH SIGNATURES, was hammered out.

When are these people going to be reported to their respective bar associations for unethical behavior?

I think they need to be reported to the Department of Justice OPRSO Office in Washington, DC.

[abteilung]

After being deposed by two of Loos' henchwomen [and informing them that my former supervisor, "Agent One-Case," perjured himself], I was asked if I was interested in settling. As I said from Day One of my EEO complaint, first to the EEO counselor, then to Tony Torres [who read my e-mail a year after I sent it], then to the contract investigator, then several times to ATF counsel, YES, I AM INTERESTED IN SETTLING. A week later I gave them a dollar amount, based on similar cases as decided by the EEOC. They offered me a transfer to a place I didn't ask to go to, and that One-Case would no longer be my supervisor [AFTER he already got a new job which he said was in his career's best interests]. I countered with a lower dollar offer. A couple of weeks later, ATF counsel said that they were no longer interested in settling. I wish this website were around back then. I would have kept those lawyers in town until an agreement, WITH SIGNATURES, was hammered out. When are these people going to be reported to their respective bar associations for unethical behavior?

[Doc Holiday]

This practice speaks to the appearance of lack of character that Ms. Loos and counsels Office brings upon the agency. There is no disputing that somehwere along the way that ethical managers have come to undertsand that mistakes have been made and they genuinely want to react properly and resolve some of these matters. Ms. Loos and her attorneys refuse to accept this and give counsel counter to the best interest of the Bureau. Thats why they have paid 6 figure settlements to Dobyns, Tokos, Bedigian and other in just one year. Remember these are JUST the recent 6 figure settlements. Now factor in the flights and per diem of the attorneys and the witnesses, the court reporter costs, the courts time, Agent,manager and attorney manhours and multiply this times dozens of complaints a year. These issue could all have been handled with a hand shake. But in Ms. Loos words "we dont want to set a precedent". A precedent of sane dispute resolution? No we wouldnt want that Ms. Loos. This is just a thumbnail of what Mr. Ruberstein and Ms. Loos are allowing to be heaped upon the Bureau and the American tax payer without any consequences. So the next time you need to lease a vehicle for a significant long term case or an apartmentment or need to more buy money and you are denied. YOU KNOW WHY. Thank Chief counsel for bad counsel and thank the executive staff for listening to them out of laziness or apathy. THIS CANNOT CONTINUE. We need some accountability. This is not your time and money you are throwing around Ms. Loos. Its the tax payers and OURS.

[Thor God of Thunder]

If you are with ATF attorneys, and your attorney and they signal settlerment and "agree in principle", Eleanor Loos, Rachael Bouman and the rest CANNOT be trusted, nor will they settle in good faith. If the settlement is to slow or stops ANY judicial or administrative progress in your case, MAKE them get whoever has settlement authority on the phone. Not tomorrow, not the next day, you get a signature on papers, as they have repeatedly used this as a ploy and then said NO deal 2 weeks later. Yep, your guessed it, thousands more in legal fees and good luck trying to kick start the judge or whoever else. Bottom line, make them sign before they leave town. Period.

I agree with you, Doc. Eleanor Loos, ATF Director, will make sure that they delay, cheat and steal all the way to the end. When they call you, is because they need something from you not because they like you. You must strike, while the iron is hot to get your issues resolved and a settlement in place. This does not mean that it is over. They will violate the agreement before the ink is dry, so you must continue to be vigilant.

[Doc Holiday]

If you are with ATF attorneys, and your attorney and they signal settlerment and "agree in principle", Eleanor Loos, Rachael Bouman and the rest CANNOT be trusted, nor will they settle in good faith. If the settlement is to slow or stops ANY judicial or administrative progress in your case, MAKE them get whoever has settlement authority on the phone. Not tomorrow, not the next day, you get a signature on papers, as they have repeatedly used this as a ploy and then said NO deal 2 weeks later. Yep, your guessed it, thousands more in legal fees and good luck trying to kick start the judge or whoever else. Bottom line, make them sign before they leave town. Period.

[Thor God of Thunder]

****SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS****

If you get the agency to a settlement agreement, make sure that every little detail is spelled out.

If you want them to stand in the corner, make sure that your settlement agreement says that the agency will stand in the corner. The only thing that is enforceable is what is written on paper.

There is no "spirit" of the settlement agreement. The settlement agreement needs to say it in order to make it enforceable and a breach when the agency does not follow it.

[Thor God of Thunder]

Let me talk about the elements of what you need to prove in order to prevail.

For discrimination you need to prove the following:
non
1. You are a member of a protected group. (race, sex, national origin, disability, religion, etc.)

2. You suffered an adverse personnel action. (non-selection for promotion, reassignment of duties, assignment of details, non-selection for voluntary reassignment, etc.)

3. You are qualified and/or have superior qualifications than the person selected. (i.e. making the Best Qualified List)

4. The person selected is outside of your protected group.


These elements establishes your claim of discrimination. Once you establish your claim, the Agency gets the opportunity to provide business
reasons why you were not selected.

5. You must prove by the preponderance of the evidence that the reasons given by the agency are false. In the case of poor performance, good evaluations prove that this reasons is false.


Usually after the case has been investigated and you have engaged the Agency in discovery, the Agency will file a motion for Summary Judgment. You will need to check to make sure that you meet all of the elements as stated above in you response and are part of the record. If you do not, they will prevail.


For retaliation, you need to prove.

1. You must prove you engaged in an EEO protected activity (filed, witness, discussion, potential complaint)

2. You suffered an adverse personnel action which would deter a reasonable person or employee from filing a complaint or opposing employment discrimination. This can really be anything!

3. That the officials responsible for the personnel action knew that you had engaged in EEO protected activity.

4. That the EEO protected activity occurred in close proximity to the adverse action (up to 1 year of the protected EEO activity).

The judge asks the agency for business reasons and you must be able to demonstrate that others were not treated the same way and it happened close after your protected activity to show it is not true.

A good resource are the federal appellate decisions at the EEOC website: http://www.eeoc.gov/...l/decisions.cfm

Make sure that you learn what are some of the common mistakes made and how to prevail on appeal (what points you need to bring up?)
Look-up the ATF cases and see how they wiggle out of even settlement agreements.

As I get more information, I will continue to post.

Even if you have an attorney, this assists you to assist your attorney in winning, which is what you want at the end of the day.

If they will not investigate your claim, contact the EEOC to complain. This means you have them on the rope and the knock out requires you to keep making nuisance of yourself by complaining.
Good luck and be safe!

[Thor God of Thunder]

Thank you Thor. I appreciate any information given on this topic and so do many other silent ATF agents out there. If anyone else has tips on this topic, please post them. Even if agents are not posting comments, they are reading the information on this site. The more prepared we can be individually, the more effective we can be.

We definitely have to stick together and hold them accountable.

[Agent14]

In addition to documenting, you must know what to do with the documentation. Be prepared to point out the obvious. If you do not point it out or give these snakes wiggle room, they will escape and not be held accountable.

Thank you Thor. I appreciate any information given on this topic and so do many other silent ATF agents out there. If anyone else has tips on this topic, please post them. Even if agents are not posting comments, they are reading the information on this site. The more prepared we can be individually, the more effective we can be.

[Thor God of Thunder]

In addition to documenting, you must know what to do with the documentation. Be prepared to point out the obvious. If you do not point it out or give these snakes wiggle room, they will escape and not be held accountable.

[Agent14]

I would like to thank all of the CUATF members who posted on this topic. This section is particularly helpful for agents in the field that are dealing with EEO issues with management. It has been especially helpful to me. This site lets working agents out there know that they are not alone. Management wants us to feel isolated and insignificant and this site gives agents across the country hope. Real street agents with pride in the agency and their work, despite our uninspiring leadership, will keep this agency alive. To all the agents out there that are disgruntled with management, I say to you; -Don't let them stop you from working good ATF cases. If they close one door, open another. -Don't get down on yourself and know that you are NOT alone. -Don't ever forget how proud you really are to be an ATF Special Agent. -Don't forget that no matter how management tries to twist, lie, and "forget things"(to name a few things they are know for) at the end of the day the truth will always be the truth. -Don't give management too much credit, the real working street agents are the real investigators and we are very good at what we do. -DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT! -Don't use it as an excuse to work road kill cases because management won't give you any trouble. I am saying this to you from one agent to another who has personally experienced a great deal of problems with management for working ATF cases. If you give up, the cycle will continue. Is it really hard to think a step ahead of our "60% club" managers????? We know they are going to stab us in the back BEFORE they make poor decisions and blame it on the working agent to try to save themselves. To Management; The working agents of today are what will make you a better manager (that is if you are interested in that). Yes, you may have to call some shots and holly crap you might not know what to do, if you let real agents work. If you are so afraid to makes mistakes that you want to take your ball and go home, maybe you should not be in management. Everyone makes mistakes, even management. As agents we are not expecting you to be perfect. We are just asking that when you make a mistake you own up to it. (I know most of you are laughing at this point). By being in management you have taken a step forward to take on some of the responsibility of facilitating our agents work in producing good case work for this agency. You stepped up, so step up. Don’t be afraid of good hard working agents. It may be outside of your comfort zone but we are what will help you grow as a supervisor. Would it be asking for too much, if you don’t know the answer to something, for you to just admit that you don’t know the answer? By the way, we aren’t selling used cars here. The old fake it until you make it, could cause someone to lose their life. An ego is a terrible thing to have as a manager which could also have grave ramifications for all parties involved. If your agents wrote evaluations on YOUR performance, what do you think it would say? (Oh nothing bad, because then you would retaliate) Seriously, I would like to challenge you to get to know your agents. I bet you could find something that is good in each one of your agents. If you do know them and you can’t find something good in them, make them good at something. You are a supervisor, right?

[Thor God of Thunder]

Thank you for your insight, as usual you are RIGHT ON THE MONEY. We have proof of "doctoring" of documents and attempting to interefere with testimony. There is NO ethical boundrie Ms. Loos and her menchman wont cross. Stay tuned. Documents have just been turned over to the OSC authored by Loos, Bouman and crew. These could truly result in disbarment and serious santions. Thank you for the input. EVERYONE IS REMINDED THAT THERE ARE TIPS IN FIGHTING BACK ON THIS WEBSITE.

Don't give her any wiggle room! She will escape out of a hole, which is the size of a dime. Remember she and her clowns are snakes and have no spine!! They will continue to conduct this circus. I am going to write my Congressman.

[Doc Holiday]

Thank you for your insight, as usual you are RIGHT ON THE MONEY. We have proof of "doctoring" of documents and attempting to interefere with testimony. There is NO ethical boundrie Ms. Loos and her menchman wont cross. Stay tuned. Documents have just been turned over to the OSC authored by Loos, Bouman and crew. These could truly result in disbarment and serious santions. Thank you for the input. EVERYONE IS REMINDED THAT THERE ARE TIPS IN FIGHTING BACK ON THIS WEBSITE.

[Thor God of Thunder]

When it comes to EEO complaint, ATF will cheat, borrow and steal in order to win their cases. As you may already know, Queen Bee Eleaner Loos is the heavy hitter in this area. Let me share some of the tactics that she and her clowns use to defeat a bona fide EEO disputes. 1. Basis of complaint - this is the reason that the complaint is being investigated. This includes the protected group and/or national origin. When they write you accepting the issue for investigaiton, they will intentionally mistate the issue and if you do not amend the complaint prior to the end of discovery, they win. 2. Timelines - if you do not meet any and all of the timelines, they will get your complaint dismissed on this basis. 3. Failure to state a claim - if you do not state the damage you suffered by the agency conducting an adverse personnel action against you. You will have your complaint dismissed. 4. You must make sure that the Agency itself follows the procedures. This is crucial for you to be able to prevail on appeal. Make requests for the procedures to be followed. 5. You have to make sure that once you make your complaint and when the Agency gives the specific reasons to justify what they did, you must prove these specific reasons are false. For example, if the Agency alleges poor performance, you can prove this is false with a fully successful evaluation for that period. If you have an outstanding, it knocks it out the park but a fully acceptable proves this reason to be false. Another example would be if the agency says you are less qualified than the person that they picked (which you know happens), all you have to prove is that you are more qualified than that person and you prevail. You can do this by showing that you have more experience and are more qualified than the person selected. If you do not prove that the reasons given are false, you lose. 6. As of late the Agency refuses to, delays, and ignores the procedures by not conducting an investigation related to the complaint and not providing an EEO counselor in a timely manner. You must make sure that when you go before the administrative judge you request an investigation. If for any reason, the administrative judge rules against you make sure you appeal on the basis of not having the benefit of an investigation. Additionally, if you do not prevail with the administrative judge, bring it up on appeal. You will prevail. 7. If you engage in a settlement with the agency, make sure that every little thing is outlined in the settlement. Do not leave anything open to interpretation. If it is not written in the agreement, it is not enforceable by the EEOC. I will just say that there are some things that may be legally right but morally wrong. Because this Agency and some of its leaders, especially Eleaner Loos, has no morales, we find ourselves in the situation we are in. We find ourselves reporting these injustices on this website. We have been forced to go underground to be able to vent and share with others these experiences and abuses. This is the reason there are so many complaints a year against some of the same managers.