8 replies to this topic

[Thor God of Thunder]

I hear there is an ASAC in the dirty South that swings but it ain't from a swing set in the playground. Are these the kind of people we select for these types of jobs?

[Doc Holiday]

Is the new fraternization policy the Hoover,Crenshaw or Gillette,Carter policy?

[Thor God of Thunder]

Lets remain focused on the issue. Agent and civilians alike may conduct their lives as they wish, with only one caveat; You OWN your actions. None of us may judge another, as last I checked there have been no ATF agents even canonized as Saints. What Mr. Melson and Mr. Hoover DO have to do is apply the same standards fairly. I wonder how many bosses have not been promoted, demoted or reprimanded for far less immoral, and unprofessional conduct FAR OUTSIDE policy and procedures, than ASAC X and his girlfriend. How can this ASAC sit in judgment over the conduct of subordinates when he has openly and flagrantly shown that the rules do not apply to him? Management SHOULD be held to a higher standard because they hold the keys to the gate. This duty and responsibility is a joke to the current Executive staff. Self promoting power brokers who do not make ONE decision with the Bureaus best interest in mind, UNLESS it somehow advances their collective personal causes.

Yea lets remain focus....I can think of several ASACs that were removed from their positions and demoted for similar conduct. What it boils down to is in the case of ASAC X days off is simply a slap on the wrist.....especially when, "WE HOLD OUR MANAGERS TO A HIGHER STANDARD" propaganda

[Doc Holiday]

Lets remain focused on the issue. Agent and civilians alike may conduct their lives as they wish, with only one caveat; You OWN your actions. None of us may judge another, as last I checked there have been no ATF agents even canonized as Saints. What Mr. Melson and Mr. Hoover DO have to do is apply the same standards fairly. I wonder how many bosses have not been promoted, demoted or reprimanded for far less immoral, and unprofessional conduct FAR OUTSIDE policy and procedures, than ASAC X and his girlfriend. How can this ASAC sit in judgment over the conduct of subordinates when he has openly and flagrantly shown that the rules do not apply to him? Management SHOULD be held to a higher standard because they hold the keys to the gate. This duty and responsibility is a joke to the current Executive staff. Self promoting power brokers who do not make ONE decision with the Bureaus best interest in mind, UNLESS it somehow advances their collective personal causes.

[Thor God of Thunder]

If this is true and I say "if" because I am not sure it has been confirmed, then it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. ASAC X has been despised by his subordinates at each of his stops. He has bullied people behind his authority. He has conducted himself with a hollier than thou attitude. He has lectured his people on ethics. He has actually written case reports on his people and submitted them to to the US Attorney for prosecution. He has carried a condescending and vengeful attitude. He has stolen credit for others work and laid blame to avoid his failures. He has enjoyed enacting discipline and savored seeing his people investigated. He has conducted himself with an I'm better than you attitude. Rest assured if the allegations here are accurate he won't be hit with punishment as hard as he should be becuase he has his lucky charm in his back pocket - his personal friendship with Billy Hoover. I don't think Billy has the same nasty character traits as ASAC X but they do share a common approach to certain elements of their lives. I'll leave it at that.

...and then there is Karma!!

[Doc Holiday]

There was clearly more to the story. To catch 30 and 45 days respectively, that means the proposals were much higher to get negotiated down. There were other elements to the violations "Allegedly" perpetrated by these and others involved. There was an office break-in, there was conflicting statements etc, etc. I too believe we should all be held to the same standard.

It is "possible" that Mr. Hoover and [ASAC X], who were roommates, "never" discussed their current and/or past romantic endeavors, but not likely in a normal roommate situation. So that begs the question: If their was an inappropriate relationship and misuse of government assets, why did Billy not only fail to report it, but PROMOTE [ASAC X]. If it's true that one of the parties was married at the time, this clearly would be troublesome. Why did the female get time off and removal from management, while [ASAC X] keeps on rocking upward and onward?

Maybe if [ASAC X] was more focused on his actual job, somebody, anybody, would have responded to the intentional arson of an Agent's house just down the road in Tucson. Did I mention that the agent's family was sleeping inside?

Mr. Melson, ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION? Once again, WE ARE "SPEAKING UP".

[Thor God of Thunder]

This is Outrageous, Almost Unbelievable!

It is rumored that an ASAC of the Southwest Field Division (who was previously to the Los Angeles Field Division) recently caught 45 days "on the beach" as a result of personal involvement with a subordinate employee. We'll call him "ASAC X". I understand that the employee (we'll call her, "Employee X") is also facing serious disciplinary action. Her penalty was reportedly more severe, something like 90 days, but it could have been that her actions were more serious too. There were allegedly some intimate G-ride rendezvous and other misuses of government property.

Should [ASAC X] be demoted or fired? He should have known better! What is the ATF's favorite cliche? You know the one we have not heard in a long time because of all of the managers getting caught with their pants down (no pun intended):

"We hold our supervisors to a higher standard."

Yeah that one! I am not one to judge others and I am not judging either one....but come on people! If true, the arrogance and stupidity! Out of all of the women in the United States, in his state,in his county, in his city, in his building, in his neighborhood, in his gym (if he goes to the gym)....ASAC X has relations with one he works with and supervises. How pathetic is that? Knowing that it is wrong and knowing that others have gotten jammed on the same thing...

ASAC X's claim to fame is that he roomed with Billy Hoover while assigned to HQ. Does this have anything to do with his promotion to ASAC??? Hmmm...I wonder...I wonder if Billy knew about this since he has engaged in similar behavior...

Anyone have any details they can add? Any rebuttals or corrections...??? I would not mind hearing those too.