563 replies to this topic

[ProConfesso]

http://www.publicint...beleaguered-atf
"Assault weapons ban" debate is pablum and a waste of time.  What was it that Edmund Burke said about history - and those doomed to repeat it...
Until it is accepted that firearms be registered, owners take responsibility, and their transfer be recorded akin to motor vehicles and immediate access is given to all LE - gun crimes will continue unabated.

Current Congressional efforts regarding trafficking laws and straw purchase laws is a distraction.  You always have to prove culpability.  And a bad investigator will always struggle.   We'll see in a few years if this makes living in Philly, the 5 boros of NYC, Chicago, Detroit and LA any better - does  anyone really care about "them" anyway. Lets look in a year and examine whether it is "dealing w/o a license" or a dedicated statute against trafficking how many of these cases are perfected anyway as compared with cherry picked adoption cases.  
Congress - take on the ATF prohibitive riders and restrictions.  http://trac.syr.edu/...nthlyjan13/fil/

http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0
Four years the Agency is admittedly aware of a trend and is only now "studying it."  That speaks volumes about incompetency and/or lack of a will to make things right.

[ProConfesso]

http://www.nytimes.c...crutiny.html?hp

[Historic Arms LLC]

It's been a while since I have posted...

I note today that the President has asked the B. Todd Jones be confirmed.  While I certainly support a full time director for the ATF, I am concerned about B. Todd Jones being "the" guy.  From where I sit (outside the tent looking in) I don't see the performance required for the job while he has been "acting" director.

I will note that during his tenure I did get an invitation to headquarters to open a dialog with ATF about recurring industry issues.  I was very surprised by that, I think that was a good thing.  I took headquarters up on its offer.  I am disapointed it did not bear fruit from the effort to date.

Having seen the personnel issues appear to get out of hand and the response to F&F I wonder if his being a sitting US attorney is almost a conflict of interest.

What I guess I am getting at is that he is from all appearances a person who is doing Eric Holders bidding.  Do I have this all wrong?  Where is the leadership that must be demonstrated for position of director?

As I said, I'm outside the tent looking in, what is the view from inside the tent?

Len Savage

President,
Historic Arms LLC

[On the side line]

Twin, on 04 January 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Another leader falls or fails . SAC is gone. What happened in Boston? Aftermath of the CT school shooting?

  There have been issues up there for a while before the CTschool shooting.  They whacked one of their best supervisors in the division in December forcing him in to HQ, two others retired, others looking to go. Brand new ASAC gone and promoted to SAC after 7 months.   From what I am hearing, a real mess.

[Twin]

Another leader falls or fails . SAC is gone. What happened in Boston? Aftermath of the CT school shooting?

[Jaime3]

With the upcoming Audit, will the GAO allow ATF to audit itself or will they have a team to come in?

We all know what will happen when the corrupt regime in ATF audits itself!  They will lie, cheat, and deceive!

Transparency is about opening your file cabinet and letting the auditors have a look.  Not you prepping a week or two with fudging documents, numbers, and dates before the auditors arrival.

The word has already hit the street and I have noticed deceitful preparation.

So if a survey was conducted and the overall outcome was mistrust, how will fair would it be in allowing them to audit themselves?  IJS

[Doc Holiday]

HAPPY AND SAFE NEW YEARS TO ALL OF YOU. GOD BLESS ATF AND GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

[mickymouse]

The survey results are posted on OPM. The results only go to the Department level.  However, I have seen some of the results for ATF and they are very bad.

[Doc Holiday]

HAS ANYONE SEEN THE RESULTS OF THIS SURVEY?

Subject: ATF Employee Viewpoint Survey
Feedback on ATF Senior Leadership Needed
Late last year, ATF received the results of the 2011 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey (EVS). A key area in which ATF fell short was leadership. Most troubling were responses to the question – "My senior leaders maintain high standards of honesty and integrity."
The honesty and integrity of senior leadership is fundamental to the success of any organization. Given recent changes in ATF senior leadership, this survey is designed to reassess views on this issue and
gather information on the specific behaviors which influenced both positive and negative responses to this question. Responses are anonymous, but will be shared with the ATF Executive Staff and field leadership. The Executive Staff is committed to using the feedback to determine what actions should be taken to address this critical issue.
Survey responses are requested by March 30, 2012. This survey is intentionally narrow in focus and is not intended to replace the more comprehensive OPM Employee Viewpoint Survey which will be issued for 2012 in the coming weeks. Your feedback to both surveys is desired and will help shape the future direction of the Bureau. Click on the following link to take you to the survey: Employee Viewpoint Survey Thank you for your participation.

[Jaime3]

URGENT, URGENT, URGENT!

The GAO, Government Accountability Office, is conducting an official audit of ATFs overall mission readiness and potential Waste, Fraud and Abuse and mismanagement of our programs across the board. The audit is the FIRST real examination of the incompetence and abuses of public funding and corruption within our Executive leadership.

This audit was requested by the House Judiciary Committee with Senator Charles Grassley as a co-requester

THIS IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD, EMAIL, FACEBOOK, AND TEXT EVERYONE WHO IS A STAKEHOLDER OR HAS A VESTED INTEREST IN A HIGHLY FUNCTIONING BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES.  ANYONE CAN REPORT ABUSES THROUGH THE BELOW LINK.  BASED ON RECENT AND PAST RESPONSES BY OUR LEADERSHIP TO THOSE ATTEMPTING TO PROVIDE OVERSIGHT WITHIN ATF, IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT YOU REPORT ANY INFORMATION WHICH HAS PROVEN DESTRUCTIVE AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO OUR MISSION.

These can include but are not limited to, self serving showboating on cases which do not advance anything but the bosses resumes'. Extremely top heavy management structure to include managers supervising managers who supervise managers. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. abuses disciplinary and costly disputes.

http://www.gao.gov/f...et/fraudnet.htm

[Jaime3]

This is good news!
Maybe the poor ATF leaders will finally be held accountable.
Good Job to all who contributed to this milestone!

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

URGENT URGENT URGENT
The GAO, Government Accountability Office, is conducting an official audit of ATFs overall mission readiness and potential Waste, Fraud and Abuse and mismanagement of our programs across the board. The audit is the FIRST real examination of the incompetence and abuses of public funding and corruption within our Executive leadership.
This audit was requested by the House Judiciary Committee with Senator Charles Grassley as a co-requester
THIS IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD, EMAIL, FACEBOOK, AND TEXT EVERYONE WHO IS A STAKEHOLDER OR HAS A VESTED INTEREST IN A HIGHLY FUNCTIONING BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES.  ANYONE CAN REPORT ABUSES THROUGH THE BELOW LINK.  BASED ON RECENT AND PAST RESPONSES BY OUR LEADERSHIP TO THOSE ATTEMPTING TO PROVIDE OVERSIGHT WITHIN ATF, IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT YOU REPORT ANY INFORMATION WHICH HAS PROVEN DESTRUCTIVE AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO OUR MISSION.
These can include but are not limited to, self serving showboating on cases which do not advance anything but the bosses resumes'. Extremely top heavy management structure to include managers supervising managers who supervise managers. Too many chiefs and not enough indians. abuses disciplinary and costly disputes.
http://www.gao.gov/f...et/fraudnet.htm

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Merry Christmas and Remember, THIS IS OUR BUREAU.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

I will answer the questions for Sen. Grassley:

Because going back to SAC Torres (formally found guilty of discrimination, A FIRING EVENT), San Francisco, circa 2005, the ATF Executive leadership, Many/most of whom have been run off the job in disgrace have been protected and rewarded for incompetence, waste fraud and abuse and huge integrity and maybe criminal lapses. From the SAC Martin Vang Pao debacle to the $3M wiretap for 11 defendants and 25 senior agents walking out the door. To the SAC Herkins Oakland debacle and the Reno FINAL Breakdown, along with their ASACS Gleysteen, Vind, Lee. To Restaff the Reno Office will cost taxpayers Millions, in addition to the millions it has cost to DE-staff the Office. The sad part is, an open letter was sent to the entire Judiciary 4 yrs ago with 29 signatures of current and former Agents, Inspectors and RACs. If any of the aforementioned would have been demoted, this story NEVER hits the web. Until our Director and Deputy Director STOP being politicians and start being cops, it can ONLY get worse for our Bureau.

Congressmen Renew Demand for ATF Answers

Agents' letters say officials knew of problems

Three members of Congress sent a letter Tuesday to the director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives demanding to know why ATF leadership failed to fix problems that all but gutted “one of the largest field office areas in the country.”

Attached to the letter from U.S. Sens. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, and Dean Heller, R-Nev., and U.S. Rep. Mark Amodei, R-Carson City, were transfer requests from four Reno agents who said ATF officials knew about the problems they were having with the U.S. Attorney’s office in Reno but failed resolve the conflict.

One agent said if he moved out of Reno, he “will be able to have an immediate impact on ATF’s mission of combating violent crime by means of cultivating informants, participating in (undercover) deals and generating a variety of cases involving firearms trafficking and other violent crime.”

The congressmen’s letter was the second sent to ATF Acting Director B. Todd Jones since the Reno Gazette-Journal exposed the breakdown in communications between the Reno U.S. Attorney’s office and local agents in September. Jones did not respond to the first one, sent Oct. 15.

The congressmen said they still have questions “about how the situation was allowed to deteriorate to the point that it did.”

“It’s too bad the Justice Department let this dysfunction go on for so long,” Grassley, R-Iowa, wrote in an email to the RGJ. “The transfer memos of the ATF agents indicate that the problems between the ATF and the U.S. Attorney’s office in Reno should have been solved long before.

“Unfortunately, because of the rift between the two offices, crimes may have gone unprosecuted and Reno residents may have been put in harm’s way.”

On Sept. 29, 2011, Assistant U.S. Attorney Sue Fahami, head of the Reno office, wrote a letter to ATF agents in Reno saying her office would not prosecute their cases until unnamed “issues” are resolved. No one has identified those issues.

In the months that followed, Reno agents met with Ronald Turk, the ATF assistant director for field operations, and the head of the San Francisco Field Office to discuss the problems with the U.S. Attorney’s office but he and other officials “took no action to resolve the issues,” the letter said.

“Instead, the agents in Reno were simply told to submit transfer request — all of which were honored, leaving the ATF Reno office with only two agents to cover one of the largest field office areas in the country,” the letter said.

Michael Campbell, an ATF spokesman in Washington, D.C., said, “ATF has received the letter and we are in the process of reviewing it.”

In response to RGJ’s reporting on the rift, the U.S. Department of Justice recently said they have assigned an agent and prosecutor from outside Nevada to review the cases that were dismissed or refused by the Reno U.S. Attorney’s office during the yearlong breakdown.

But they have not disclosed when they plan to restaff the Reno ATF office. In one transfer letter, an agent said “there has been no indication” that anyone within U.S. Department of Justice is going to hold Fahami or anyone in her Reno office “accountable for their intentional misrepresentation and slanderous allegations against agents from the ATF Reno Field Office.”

He and others said they feared that the federal prosecutor would damage their reputations and careers.

Another agent said: “At this point, I am unable to work in the state of Nevada, per (U.S. Attorney’s office) and ATF management. My only goal is to return to working significant cases as I had been accustomed to prior to this unfortunate circumstance.”

It’s up to the U.S. Attorney’s office to “hold its own personnel accountable for their improper actions,” the agent said. “However I do expect a vigorous defense from ATF counsel should the USAO neglect to fulfill its role in this matter and their personnel attempt to perpetuate their unfounded, unprofessional and improper dialogue with their peers in other judicial districts.”

Another agent said in his transfer letter that if relocated outside Reno, he would “be able to quickly forge successful working relationships with local law enforcement officers and detectives assigned to investigate firearms trafficking, gang activity and other types of violent crimes.”

He said his seven years at the Reno ATF office were rewarding and he was fortunate to work “on a variety of successful long term and proactive cases.”

“I believe my experience working as the case agent or an (undercover) during such complex investigations” will be an asset to other field offices.

The four agents were granted their transfer requests, leaving only two agents in Reno.

The members of Congress demanded to know when the ATF San Francisco Field Office knew about the problems, what was spent to relocate the agents and when the ATF will bring new agents to Reno.
“Why was ATF leadership more willing to incur the cost of moving these agents than it was to attempt to resolve the underlying issues” with the Nevada U.S. Attorney’s office, the congressmen asked.

They gave the ATF chief until Jan. 2 to respond to their questions.

[Doc Holiday]

Ok let's break this down together.  All except Voth and Newell are eligible to retire or will be before that agency can or will act decisively. Therefore, Hoover, Melson, McMahon, Giillette, Newell, Chait, et al will retire WITHOUT consequence.  That's right, Julie Torres and Mr. Brandon  authorize McMahon to defraud the governement, and Ms. Torres becomes the 4th Asst Director of INTERNAL AFFAIRS to be removed for integrity violations in 4 yrs and her pay, benefits and retirement is completely unaffected. COMPLETELY. Not a dime lost in benefits. Simple on paper demotion two levels down. Where again is the deterent to future abuses of authority? Gillette already made it clear he was gonna burn up his sick leave, then retire anyway. Several million dollars and countless manhours by Oversight and Judiciary committees and ONLY the two lowest guys in the food chain are demoted ONE level. Has McMahon been allowed to double dip on SICK LEAVE?  Shameful acts are the order of the day here at ATF.

[Cowboy Dan]

Doc, if I'd scraped a badge with a screwdriver, I'd be locked up at least overnight, more if I started lying about it.  

Why are the rules different for bosses?  Oh, yeah, there ARE bosses, and they take care of their own.

[Doc Holiday]

Ya think? I don't care, but somebodys ass shoulda been out the door for that one.

[ProConfesso]

VINCENT A CEFALU, on 22 November 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

The attached is the notorious "Internal Affairs"...we'll call it an "investigation" regarding the intentional destruction of my ATF Badges by members UNKNOWN, within the SFFD Management chain of command.

NOTE: The attachment is heavily redacted for NO legitimate reason.

No witnesses interviewed except then-ASAC Michael Gleysteen, and then-RAC Dennis Downs. Gleysteen is now the AD Of Internal Affairs and Downs is the OCDETF Coordinator.

No polygraphs. Not even of me.

A request for a lab examination by some IA rookie without anything to compare it to (a tool mark examination). Yet wasted lab time to state that the badges were intentionally destroyed.  DUH.

Gleysteen attempted to get a Protective Programs employee to lie about the condition of the badges.

The only two people known to have secure possession of the badges were Mike Gleysteen and Dennis Downs.

I returned one badge on one day and the other on the next.  Both were subsequently badly damaged, and NEITHER manager noticed even one of them were damaged?

Both Downs AND Gleysteen admitted to knowing a crime had been committed after being asked over a year later. Both testified that they DID NOT REPORT IT.

Promotion, Promotion, Promotion. I personally have not seen a more juvenile act in over 30 years of law enforcement.

YOU DECIDE if these are the best choices Brandon and Jones could make for the integrity of our Bureau.

"one possible source was the blade of a standard screwdriver."  CASE CLOSED.  They tried to screw you.

[Longhorn]

Some new threats against Dobyns?  Any truth?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

The attached is the notorious "Internal Affairs"...we'll call it an "investigation" regarding the intentional destruction of my ATF Badges by members UNKNOWN, within the SFFD Management chain of command.

NOTE: The attachment is heavily redacted for NO legitimate reason.

No witnesses interviewed except then-ASAC Michael Gleysteen, and then-RAC Dennis Downs. Gleysteen is now the AD Of Internal Affairs and Downs is the OCDETF Coordinator.

No polygraphs. Not even of me.

A request for a lab examination by some IA rookie without anything to compare it to (a tool mark examination). Yet wasted lab time to state that the badges were intentionally destroyed.  DUH.

Gleysteen attempted to get a Protective Programs employee to lie about the condition of the badges.

The only two people known to have secure possession of the badges were Mike Gleysteen and Dennis Downs.

I returned one badge on one day and the other on the next.  Both were subsequently badly damaged, and NEITHER manager noticed even one of them were damaged?

Both Downs AND Gleysteen admitted to knowing a crime had been committed after being asked over a year later. Both testified that they DID NOT REPORT IT.

Promotion, Promotion, Promotion. I personally have not seen a more juvenile act in over 30 years of law enforcement.

YOU DECIDE if these are the best choices Brandon and Jones could make for the integrity of our Bureau.

Attached Files

•  Cefalu_Badges.pdf   1.34MB   34 downloads

[Doc Holiday]

Yes, well thought out calculated protection.  No demotion, no demand he pay back dbl dip money, and no charges for lying, gross mismanagement or loss of benefits. I'll break this down and everybody can decide whether justice has been served. McMahon, is eligible to retire in December, they helped him get a high powered job with the very company who holds the ATF credit card contract. They can and will drag out the termination process well past his retirement date. The fact that they PROPOSED it doesn't mean ANYTHING. He ALREADY has a job, so it will not impact his employability. He will get FULL SES retirement benefits, with NO consequences. Thereby, greenlighting many more abuses of authority in the future. YOU CANNOT terminate somebody who has already retired.  And Mr. Jones and Brandon KNOW this. Like I said, CALCULATED. More to follow.
ProCon

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

TO ALL, HAPPY VETERANS DAY AND AN EXTRA SPECIAL HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ALL PAST AND CURRENT UNITED STATES MARINES.

[Dayton]

I ran across a book on Amazon called  "MEMOIRS OF A US FEDERAL AGENT"  by MICHAEL PAAR.
Can anyone tell me if this was written by an ATF Agent?

[Iceman]

Lets not forget that main Justice and multiple U.S. Attorneys Office Across the country are Purposefully defending managers they KNOW are corrupt.  Guess that whole " Justice" thing and an "Officer of the Court" escapes them as well.
I thought the below was worthy of re-posting in this area.
Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:35 AM
Senator Grassley and Chairman Issa have demanded responses from OUR ACTING Director. Multiple times. Our Director has flat out refused a response deferring to main Justice. HOWEVER, it is NOT main Justice who so poorly mismanaged an out of control U.S.
Attorneys office in Reno. It was NOT main justice BUT OUR LEADERSHIP, SF ASAC Jeff Vind and SAC Herkins, in concert with Mr. Brandon, Jones and Turk who turned their backs on ATF, our Agents AND our mission. Have any of them been demoted, relieved of leadership positions? No in fact, they have disregarded virtually every recommendation by the Field Agent Advisory Panel and decided to thumb their nose at the Bureau and those who do this job day in and day out. Why? They are all leaving as fast as they can. Ms. Torres signs off on double dipping with Brandon and Jones concurrence in direct violation of policy and law, and what happens?  Julie Keeps her SES and goes to Tampa. Gillette marches in throws his gear on the desk and say when his sick leave is exhausted, hes gone. Hoover gone.  Mr. Jones has already said hes gone after the election with his buddy Holder. He clearly came to ATF to tamp down the effects of fast and furious and had NO intention of righting this Agency.  DAG already wants Brandon gone for his approval of McMahons full time outside employment.  THAT people is why none of our leadership can look in the camera or the mirror and answer Congress" questions. This undermines what we do and undermines the entire Department of Justice. Mr. Jones, we as ATF Agents answer all questions, our head held high, even when mistakes are made and that why local law enforcement trusts us. YOU and yours are EXACTLY why nobody trusts us. If you had ever been in the field you'd know, when someone WONT answer questions, its generally because they are guilty of what they are accused of. You have damaged this Bureau and its Agents and you have accomplished your mission. Keep the field off the AG and White House. Noble cause for an officer of the court. Safe trip home, this destruction will be your legacy. Important to point out, OUR EXECUTIVE LEADERSHIP HAS PROTECTED AND EVEN ADVANCED THE CAUSE OF EVERY MANAGER INVOLVED IN FAST AND FURIOUS AND DONE SO WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AND IMPUNITY. Those days are over soon.

[Doc Holiday]

Does anyone KNOW why HQ is compiling biographies WITH photographs to distribute to UNKNOWN populations? Isn't this a potential HUGE OPSEC violation? We still have Bosses in the field who actually work and probably don't appreciate having their mugs all over the internet thanks to some type of grandstanding by ATF management. DO THESE GUYS EVER think things thru?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Senator Grassley and Chairman Issa have demanded responses from OUR ACTING Director. Multiple times. Our Director has flat out refused a response deferring to main Justice. HOWEVER, it is NOT main Justice who so poorly mismanaged an out of control U.S. Attorneys office in Reno. It was NOT main justice BUT OUR LEADERSHIP, SF ASAC Jeff Vind and SAC Herkins, in concert with Mr. Brandon, Jones and Turk who turned their backs on ATF, our Agents AND our mission. Have any of them been demoted, relieved of leadership positions? No in fact, they have disregarded virtually every recommendation by the Field Agent Advisory Panel and decided to thumb their nose at the Bureau and those who do this job day in and day out. Why? They are all leaving as fast as they can. Ms. Torres signs off on double dipping with Brandon and Jones concurrence in direct violation of policy and law, and what happens?  Julie Keeps her SES and goes to Tampa. Gillette marches in throws his gear on the desk and say when his sick leave is exhausted, hes gone. Hoover gone.  Mr. Jones has already said hes gone after the election with his buddy Holder. He clearly came to ATF to tamp down the effects of fast and furious and had NO intention of righting this Agency.  DAG already wants Brandon gone for his approval of McMahons full time outside employment.  THAT people is why none of our leadership can look in the camera or the mirror and answer Congress" questions. This undermines what we do and undermines the entire Department of Justice. Mr. Jones, we as ATF Agents answer all questions, our head held high, even when mistakes are made and that why local law enforcement trusts us. YOU and yours are EXACTLY why nobody trusts us. If you had ever been in the field you'd know, when someone WONT answer questions, its generally because they are guilty of what they are accused of. You have damaged this Bureau and its Agents and you have accomplished your mission. Keep the field off the AG and White House. Noble cause for an officer of the court. Safe trip home, this destruction will be your legacy. Important to point out, OUR EXECUTIVE LEADERSHIP HAS PROTECTED AND EVEN ADVANCED THE CAUSE OF EVERY MANAGER INVOLVED IN FAST AND FURIOUS AND DONE SO WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AND IMPUNITY. Those days are over soon.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Yesterday, I voted.

I usually wait to vote; however, I felt a sense of urgency due to a total lack of leadership and transparency, and I felt compelled to vote as an American citizen.  Although I am one person - one vote, it made me feel good to participate in the process.

Get out and vote.  

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

TO ALL,
it has been reported from across the country that CUATF posts are being examined and investigated by the Agency and DOJ for retaliatory purposes. Therefore, BE MINDFUL and recognize that your "First Amendment Rights", may NOT be honored by the agency/DOJ OR its leadership.

[Thor God of Thunder]

Itsy, on 30 July 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

I find it funny, how everyone on here rambles and rants about others, simply because they don't have the confidence or courage to say it to that person face-to-face.

With all of the retaliation that occurs in this agency, yes even a great warrior like myself would have to think it twice or thrice.

[lancebone1967]

Hows does shuffling executives advance the ATF mission in any way?  I will accept one single reason even if it is not strong on how or why Sweetow from SAC ATL to SAC St. Paul, Julie Torres from AD IA to SAC Tampa, Gleysteen from SAC KC to DAD to AD IA, Traver from Director nominee/SAC Chicago to SAC Denver, AD Ford to SAC Chicago, Crenshaw from SAC Seattle to HQ and HQ to SAC Seattle in one year and many more stupid transfers advance our fight against violent crime?  I can not think of one even a marginal explanation that works.  What I do think is that the rats know the ship is going down and they are taking care of each other to get where they want to be before we all go under.  The rest of us are on our own.  Maybe a Changecast message will come out telling us that all is well and not to look back.  Jones and Brandon are gone after the election and will dump all the clean up on the next regime.  Mark my words. They will drag out do anything about anything until they don't have too.  They've seen the reports for weeks now.  See ya all at the bottom of the ocean.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Rumors running rampant can be dangerous AND counterproductive, so we should all take a deep breath and give the Execs the benefit of the doubt until they SHOW their incompetence or corrupt intentions. That being said, I have a GREAT one. If true, I will personally introduce you to your NEW Assistant Director of Internal Affairs when announced. His/her credentials include violation of 18. U.S.C., 1001, perjury,  falsifying official government documents and stating under oath in ONE sworn deposition "I don't know" and "I don't recall" over 75 times DIRECTLY related to Bureau policy and His/her own personal decisions. THE HITS JUST KEEP ON COMING.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

In reviewing government documents, BE WARNED. The prior Ombudsman Marianne Ketels regularly ran my emailed concerns and issues by Chief Counsels Office and the big bosses. OF COURSE they are heavily redacted. SO, insure you make CLEAR with the current Ombudsman's Office that they DO NOT have your permission to share your CONFIDENTIAL communications with CCO, (especially those attorneys involved in your dispute. THEIR definition of confidential MAY be different than OURs.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

I'm glad you posted Madea and Jay. However, in my particular situation, a trial before a jury, albeit time consuming, may be the ONLY way, to hold these bosses accountable, ensure disciplinary action and demotions, and contribute to the long term betterment of ATF. IF we survive at all. Our leadership thru their attorneys like to lurk in the dark, with protective orders, and confidentiality. These decade long abuses starting with Domenech and continuing need sunlight. After all, we have the badges. We are the good guys. And we are NEVER ashamed to own our conduct or actions in full view of those we have sworn to protect. Right?  Right?

26 years and counting, on 03 September 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

The following is from Madea, who is still banned in Detroit and "doesn't give a rat's ass":

So sorry this happened to you Jay. I have to notify other ATF litigants that this has never happened to anyone I’ve represented. Be aware that mediation has always come at no cost. In my cases, I’ve had a settlement judge or a mediator who is usually an attorney looking for experience in mediation. Each time I carefully discussed whether there be an expense to the person bringing the case. Each time I was told ‘no, there was no charge’.

For other litigants.... be sure to address this up front. To get stuck with a $9,000 bill, you would have been required to sign an agreement to pay and it would show the fee for the mediator.

Please folks, tell your attorneys not to sign any agreement until YOU read it. Be careful, ATF is clever and by now you should know that they are trying to break you financially. Ask questions before you begin the mediation and those questions should be about costs.

Folks, you can expect to pay for an arbitrator when his decision is binding, otherwise if it is not binding, question why you’re not simply using a mediator.

Madea

[26 years and counting]

The following is from Madea:

So sorry this happened to you Jay. I have to notify other ATF litigants that this has never happened to anyone I’ve represented. Be aware that mediation has always come at no cost. In my cases, I’ve had a settlement judge or a mediator who is usually an attorney looking for experience in mediation. Each time I carefully discussed whether there be an expense to the person bringing the case. Each time I was told ‘no, there was no charge’.

For other litigants.... be sure to address this up front. To get stuck with a $9,000 bill, you would have been required to sign an agreement to pay and it would show the fee for the mediator.

Please folks, tell your attorneys not to sign any agreement until YOU read it. Be careful, ATF is clever and by now you should know that they are trying to break you financially. Ask questions before you begin the mediation and those questions should be about costs.

Folks, you can expect to pay for an arbitrator when his decision is binding, otherwise if it is not binding, question why you’re not simply using a mediator.

Madea

Jay A. Dobyns, on 02 September 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Vin we have had this conversation but for others who hold hope that mediation will bring you some satisfaction my advise is to steel your heart for disappointment.  The first time I tried it Loos told me that as far as I was concerned "I am ATF", that she alone would decide my fate and during the mediation that I better not piss her off.  This is no joke.  Dewey Webb sat there as the agency rep and barely paid attention spending most of the time on his blackberry.  The second mediation the message was sent from Melson and Hoover through Carter, Bouman and Bacon that I could resign or be terminated.  That is no joke either.  The whole time Carter, Bouman and Bacon were in the adjoining room laughing and yucking it up making sure they were loud enough for us to hear.  My wife was with me and when she heard them haveing such a great time and celebrating their droping the bomb on us she just broke down and cried.  Best part; leading up to the mediation Bouman kept reassuring my attorney that ATF would arrive and negotiate in good faith.  ATF then they stuck me with a $9K mediation bill and told me too bad, so sad.  Best part, part II; I learned during depositions that no one who attended the mediation had even been granted settlement authority.  Beware.  If you get your hopes up for them to treat you right you'll be burned.  Guard your heart, your head and your hopes.  Maybe Jones and Brandon will handle it differently.  We can only hope.

[Jay A. Dobyns]

Vin we have had this conversation but for others who hold hope that mediation will bring you some satisfaction my advise is to steel your heart for disappointment.  The first time I tried it Loos told me that as far as I was concerned "I am ATF", that she alone would decide my fate and during the mediation that I better not piss her off.  This is no joke.  Dewey Webb sat there as the agency rep and barely paid attention spending most of the time on his blackberry.  The second mediation the message was sent from Melson and Hoover through Carter, Bouman and Bacon that I could resign or be terminated.  That is no joke either.  The whole time Carter, Bouman and Bacon were in the adjoining room laughing and yucking it up making sure they were loud enough for us to hear.  My wife was with me and when she heard them haveing such a great time and celebrating their droping the bomb on us she just broke down and cried.  Best part; leading up to the mediation Bouman kept reassuring my attorney that ATF would arrive and negotiate in good faith.  ATF then they stuck me with a $9K mediation bill and told me too bad, so sad.  Best part, part II; I learned during depositions that no one who attended the mediation had even been granted settlement authority.  Beware.  If you get your hopes up for them to treat you right you'll be burned.  Guard your heart, your head and your hopes.  Maybe Jones and Brandon will handle it differently.  We can only hope.

VINCENT A CEFALU, on 02 September 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

As matter of protocol within the Northern Judicial District of California, AND at the insistence of the U.S. District Court Judge presiding over my civil suit against Eric Holder/ATF et al. we will be attending formal mediation in San Francisco, Ca. On September 28th. We ALL know exactly what this means. There is always of course the tried and true Jay Dobyns version of ATF mediation, "QUIT or be FIRED". We will see. These proceedings are confidential so I will NOT be able to inform the field, but you are really really smart people. It IS however VERY telling that the assigned Assistant United States Attorney insisted that he be allowed to depose me AGAIN, for the 3rd time, one week prior to the mediation but is clearly stonewalling my deposition of Mc Mahon prior to the same mediation. Do not try to apply logic or integrity to this information, ( Our CURRENT leadership does not measure our successes by ethics OR integrity) just take these facts and do with them as you choose.Semper Fidelis, Vince

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

As matter of protocol within the Northern Judicial District of California, AND at the insistence of the U.S. District Court Judge presiding over my civil suit against Eric Holder/ATF et al. we will be attending formal mediation in San Francisco, Ca. On September 28th. We ALL know exactly what this means. There is always of course the tried and true Jay Dobyns version of ATF mediation, "QUIT or be FIRED". We will see. These proceedings are confidential so I will NOT be able to inform the field, but you are really really smart people. It IS however VERY telling that the assigned Assistant United States Attorney insisted that he be allowed to depose me AGAIN, for the 3rd time, one week prior to the mediation but is clearly stonewalling my deposition of Mc Mahon prior to the same mediation. Do not try to apply logic or integrity to this information, ( Our CURRENT leadership does not measure our successes by ethics OR integrity) just take these facts and do with them as you choose.Semper Fidelis, Vince

[Iceman]

The question is now, will Mr. Jones immediately resign as acting Director for such ethical lapses? Will Brandon and Turk explain and be held accountable for such a disgrace? Will Congress or the OIG pull Mr. McMahon's passport to prevent him from fleeing prosecution since his J.P. Morgan position involves the Phillipines? Will he be made to PAY THE TAXPAYERS back immediately, have his accrued benefits reset to reflect lost time?  These are the consequences that the LAW requires. The question is, will DOJ or ATF apply the LAW just this once?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

The question is????? Does he now suffer the EXACT same expenses to include legal, loss of wages, repeated abuse, his kids and family and friends suffering OR do the tax payers get to defend him.  Hope he gets EXACTLY what the rest of us got under his "leadership".  Wish they would have gone criminal instead of civil.

Attached Files

•  housevholdercomp1.pdf   172.57K   11 downloads

[Doc Holiday]

RENO, NV.
Outrageous is the ONLY word that describes the San Francisco Field Division's handling of the breakdown with the United States Attorney over the Reno Office. In the way of a history lesson, since its formation, the Reno Field Office has always been one of the MOST productive and professional Offices in the country, and often carried the field division in proactive work. Over 30 years. In just a couple short years, SAC Herkins, and ASAC Vind, and ASAC Lee have destroyed it all. The office is effectively closed over a dispute with the U.S. Attorney, that these managers failed to respond to and address. The Agents are scattered in the wind, we are now going to pay for office space until the contract runs out in 7 years. Two agents remain, with no expectations, no investigative resources or responsibilities and this was approved by Turk, Brandon and Jones. Clearly Mr. Jones, a U.S. Attorney first and foremost does not want to make waves with one of his peers, But Brandon and Turk?  Why leave Vind in place? Merely shifting the groups he runs does NOT reek of accountability. Herkins promoted after that?  Seriously?

Things like this do NOT fly under the radar. They Can't. No supervisor, no cases. How does this put us (ATF) on the Front Lines of violent crime or serve the public safety? How many needless paid moves resulted from this? Yet every manager who was responsible is still in place. Two moves for the newly appointed supervisor who had JUST reported from Washington. Is this the most effective use of our resources?

Herkins and Vind and probably John Lee the second ASAC should all be immediately removed from management and forced to retire. We told you this about Newell and Gillete and you didn't listen. Are you prepared to suffer another nightmare at the hands of inept managers because you won't listen?

[Bulletman]

The corruption and "good old boy" club within ATF management is a disgrace to the entire country. Congress has dropped the ball by not exercising rigid oversight on a management crew that has been sending signals of their incompetence for several years. They (management) have been going to Capitol Hill and blowing smoke in the faces of Congressmen and Senators for years. The more they got away with the more smoke they generated.

If you don't believe this just take a look at the NIBIN program. When Director Truscott took $4 million from the program to pay for some extravagance in the new headquarters building the program started downhill. You know the rest of the story.

Now, after months of investigations and looking into Fast and Furious, official reports have surfaced, documentation presented and still not one single person that was a part of the problem has been fired or even reprimanded.

We have two dead Federal agents and hundreds of Mexican citizens murdered and not one person has been made accountable. Millions of dollars have been diverted to cover the rear ends of bad management personnel. We have one ATF agent whose house was burned and still no legitimate investigation. Another top agent parked in an office for reporting illegal activities. And the list of abuses to agents goes on and on and on.

It is frightening to me what has and is happening. As a one time "insider" on Capitol Hill working with ATF and all of the old Treasury law enforcement agencies it is appalling to me that our elected Members of Congress have allowed this situation to develop. It should have been nipped in the bud years ago.

It hurts to see good agents like Jay Dobyns, Vince Cefalu and others I know, being subjected to activities that should have landed the perpetrators in jail years ago. Instead they all lied to cover their sorry butts and got promoted and nice assignments to their favorite locations.

This is a sorry chapter in law enforcement history. Thanks to the courage of Jay, Vince, John and others that stepped forward to tell the truth perhaps we will see the entire incestuous mess in HQ kicked to the curb.

Yeah, I also believe in Santa Claus. Congress will do their election year dances and the next crisis will take over the headlines.

Let us all pray that the effort of the courageous ATF whistleblowers brings some justice to the situation.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Classic:

Here's a test run for the new, new, new Ombudsman's "Whistleblower" website. 4 Years since Jays house was burned down in an arson fire. 4 Years since Higman, Gillette, Newell and Hoover et al, floated the idea that Jay was a suspect. 4 years and still no public acknowledgement that his managers were corrupt and fabricated the entire story. 4 years that the DOJ had the brainstorm to counter sue Jay to ruin his family, life and career.  This is a grounder DOJ. Fix it, unless its just pre-election, pre- OIG report and pre- Acting Directors exit smoke and mirrors..

Watch the entire interview with Dobyns re: the arson of his home here:

=======================================================

Veteran ATF Agent Demanding Answers
8/10/2012
Courtesy of KVOA, Tucson

TUCSON- A highly decorated, federal agent is demanding answers from the Department of Justice.

ATF Special Agent Jay Dobyns' house was burned to the ground four years ago. It came after Dobyns infiltrated the "Hells Angels" gang in what was known as "Operation Black Biscuit".

After that his family was threatened. Dobyns says everything is documented. Dobyns went to his supervisors for help, but he says the threats were dismissed. Now the same supervisors who, Dobyns says, ignored his plea for protection are also tied to the botched Fast and Furious Operation.

Dobyns, a hometown hero and 25 year veteran of ATF says for four years, his reputation has been damaged by the agency he took an oath to serve and thought would protect him.

"They tried to frame me as the arsonist passed the case to the FBI and in four years they haven't done anything on it."

August 10, 2008 the Dobyns home went up in flames inside his wife and children. They managed to escape. Dobyns was out of town. Dobyns denied setting fire to his house,

"I absolutely did not and I've said that a thousand times."

Dobyns is convinced he's being framed by the same people in the Phoenix office who were responsible for Fast and Furious. He says it's because he blew the whistle on them and complained to the Department of Justice when they refused to take the threats against him and his family seriously.

"I embarrassed them I showed their incompetence and their inability to react to threats or their unwillingness their cowardness to stand up to criminals."

Dobyns wrote a book about his experience when he went undercover in "Operation Black Biscuit" and he writes about the lack of support and empathy from the heads of the Phoenix office.

He also says there was an investigation into his allegations that were later proven to be true.

"Everything I said four years ago is 100% true, 100% accurate and if they had reacted to that information in 2006, 2007, 2008 there would be no Fast and Furious because that leadership would have been removed. And the people that were in place would have known better."

Dobyns is demanding answers , wanting to clear his name. The FBI told News 4 Tucson, they are investigating the arson case along with ATF and it's an ongoing case. Privately some federal agents tell News 4 what was done to Jay Dobyns was criminal. News 4 contacted ATF in Phoenix and in Washington for their reaction. Washington called back and said,

"No comment."

[microscope]

Joke of the day.

http://blogs.wsj.com...whistleblowers/

Justice Department Post to Aid Whistleblowers

The Justice Department’s inspector general’s office says it is creating a new post to help protect whistleblowers who call attention to waste and abuse.

Yeah, we had this for years.  It was called the Attorney General's Mailbox.  It was on the ATF homepage.  It was also a blackhole for anything that didn't kiss Holder's ass and the people who ran it for him responded to anything less than flattery with condescending arrogence.

[CUATF Webmaster]

Mr. or Ms. Itsy,

• Overtly insulting other members is not allowed on this message board (except by me), according to the rules you agreed-to when you registered;
• Calling "everyone on here" `cowards' (in essence) is most certainly an insult.
• A substantial number of our members have, as  a matter of public record, routinely mixed it up with some of the most  savagely violent criminals on the planet, rendering your statements  absurd at face value.  
      

Chill out or you're gone.

Itsy, on 30 July 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

I find it funny, how everyone on here rambles and rants about others, simply because they don't have the confidence or courage to say it to that person face-to-face.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

The system definitely isn't perfect, BUT, it does seem to weed out the bad eggs over time. Good riddance. Not fast enough but better late than never. The Bureau is a better place with their departure.

Longhorn, on 07 August 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

The word is that Jeff Sarnacki was told he was going to LA as an ASAC and quit.  After his sugar daddy Melson got jammed he's become a nobody.  Even better is the rumor that Scott Thomason put in his walking papers.  “All of these whistleblowers have axes to grind,” Thomasson allegedly said. “ATF needs to f—k these guys. We need to get whatever dirt we can on these guys and take them down.”  Hope to see you on the street one day douche.

[Longhorn]

The word is that Jeff Sarnacki was told he was going to LA as an ASAC and quit.  After his sugar daddy Melson got jammed he's become a nobody.  Even better is the rumor that Scott Thomason put in his walking papers.  “All of these whistleblowers have axes to grind,” Thomasson allegedly said. “ATF needs to f—k these guys. We need to get whatever dirt we can on these guys and take them down.”  Hope to see you on the street one day douche.

[Storm]

@Itsy,  I get the impression that you must be one of the ones that is being talked about for you to post such a broad opinion.   Do us a favor and keep your opinions to yourself!

[Jay A. Dobyns]

I don't need to figure out or determine where I stand.  My track record speaks for itself.  You figure it out.  Here I am in the open and taking a beating for not doing what you claim "everyone" does.  Thanks for the comments and observations.  Do you have anything of substance to add or did you just pop up to advise everyone of your observations?  I would say what I have to say to your face too but since you go by "Itsy", that's a little hard to do.

Itsy, on 30 July 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

The truth is I have not "rambled or ranted" about or against anyone. I simply wrote that as a culmination of my observations. My remark imcluded "everyone" simply to represent the majority of my finds. It was not ment to include everyone, so I'll leave it up to you to determine whether you correlate with those in that group or not.

[Itsy]

The truth is I have not "rambled or ranted" about or against anyone. I simply wrote that as a culmination of my observations. My remark imcluded "everyone" simply to represent the majority of my finds. It was not ment to include everyone, so I'll leave it up to you to determine whether you correlate with those in that group or not.

[Jay A. Dobyns]

When you write "everyone" that includes me and I have not hidden from anyone and said everything and more to their faces.  I will look any person out there in the eye and say what I have to say.  Since you don't have the "confidence and courage" to use your name while you "ramble and rant about others" you have displayed yourself to be the epitome of a hypocrite.

Itsy, on 30 July 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

I find it funny, how everyone on here rambles and rants about others, simply because they don't have the confidence or courage to say it to that person face-to-face.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

You would have them subject themselves to reprisals and retaliation that even CONGRESS can't stop??????????

Itsy, on 30 July 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

I find it funny, how everyone on here rambles and rants about others, simply because they don't have the confidence or courage to say it to that person face-to-face.