1315 replies to this topic

[GoodWorker]

I am a retired mid-level ATF employee. It is time to support the legislation to abolish ATF. Yes it will hurt some current employees but it will help the country as a whole.

Amen.  I second that.

[retired1811]

I am a retired mid-level ATF employee. It is time to support the legislation to abolish ATF. Yes it will hurt some current employees but it will help the country as a whole.

[GoodWorker]

http://www.ticklethe...-eliminate-atf/

 

I think this article deserves SOME editorial. It is admirable that FLEOA is weighing in on this issue and we (the field) have always supported and been hopeful the Agency could be turned around. However, FLEOA has been aware of the abysmal leadership and the abuses heaped upon ATF Agents starting with Truscott and carrying thru Sullivan,Domenech, Melson and now Jones.They have met multiple times to discuss many of the issues confronting whistle blowers, EEOC complainants and grievances within the Agency. ATFs FLEOA rep is intimately aware of the abuses.

 

FLEOA has either chosen the road of diplomacy or have proven impotent in supporting dozens of Agents who have sought legal support. Many old timers just let their membership lapse for this very reason. That is not to say FLEOA has not been effective in high profile shooting cases and such. What it means is when you have the force of 25000 Federal Agents, legislative contacts and the ability to champion your members in the media, YOU MUST USE IT. The ability to file class actions were available. When CLEAR CUT management abuses are occurring wholesale and the leaders of the agency continuously give lip service to the association, it must pick a side or those leaders at any given agency are empowered.

 

The time to have acted was when the Dodsons, Dobyns,Gils Neelys and Cefalus  and dozens of others were having their heads caved in and publicly standing up for the field. When Congress refers to ATF whistle blowers and field Agent abuses openly, THAT would be a good time to step up. Not just when somebody has had enough of ATF BS and wants to abolish us.

I am a FLEOA member and will continue to pay my dues BUT I was very disappointed to see that FLEOA gave Director Jones an award recently.  ATF has ruined the careers and damaged the families of many good employees over personal vendettas.  Jones has not done anything to justify the award.

[just gotta shake your head]

abteilung, well stated and everyone please remember that this is not just happening to agents but also with IOIs, IRSs and the Admin Staff itself.  Backstabbing, misuse of time (teleworking / HIP) and "moral cowards or bullies hiding behind their buddy the boss" runs rampant through the agency.  Also, too many managers (LE and IO), too many fast promotions (LE and IO), too many managers (LE and IO) that cannot supervise personnel and should never be supervising others.  The problems have been there so long and run so deep that will be hard to fix but can be fixed with hard working conscientious employees who have good, old work ethics.

 

Kay Kubicki recognized a lot of the abuses and lack of ethic standards and this is why she was doing what she doing.  She was a great person to speak with about problems and helped me many times and others I know.  Sometimes just by listening.  Kay will be missed by many and I think in her own way she will still be helping because there are many unresolved issues and many people who still need a helping hand.  

 

 

[abteilung]

As a matter of fact, I just got off the phone with Fran.  I'm retired now, but I've known him for years and regularly call him to rant.  I specifically called him today to comment on FLEOA and President Adler.  FLEOA can, and should, so more for the dues-paying agents who are regularly beaten like a pinata.  I believe that Fran's frustration is genuine and deep.

 

Also, ATF agents should stand up when other agents get abused by management.  But too many ignore what's been going on or they side with management and becoming bullies and thugs themselves [like the chicken$hit bastard in WonderBoy's group who anonymously mocked my career-ending spinal injury with no repercussions].  I ask you, if other agents are moral cowards or bullies hiding behind their buddy the boss, how can those of you still working as agents, going out on the street and risking your lives, be assured that these other agents will come to your rescue in a gun battle or hand-to-hand combat to the death?  Personally, I'm glad I don't have to wonder about that anymore, and my wife is relieved that I won't be left to die in some $hithole while other agents in my old Division are out getting lattes.

[Doc Holiday]

http://www.ticklethe...-eliminate-atf/

 

I think this article deserves SOME editorial. It is admirable that FLEOA is weighing in on this issue and we (the field) have always supported and been hopeful the Agency could be turned around. However, FLEOA has been aware of the abysmal leadership and the abuses heaped upon ATF Agents starting with Truscott and carrying thru Sullivan,Domenech, Melson and now Jones.They have met multiple times to discuss many of the issues confronting whistle blowers, EEOC complainants and grievances within the Agency. ATFs FLEOA rep is intimately aware of the abuses.

 

FLEOA has either chosen the road of diplomacy or have proven impotent in supporting dozens of Agents who have sought legal support. Many old timers just let their membership lapse for this very reason. That is not to say FLEOA has not been effective in high profile shooting cases and such. What it means is when you have the force of 25000 Federal Agents, legislative contacts and the ability to champion your members in the media, YOU MUST USE IT. The ability to file class actions were available. When CLEAR CUT management abuses are occurring wholesale and the leaders of the agency continuously give lip service to the association, it must pick a side or those leaders at any given agency are empowered.

 

The time to have acted was when the Dodsons, Dobyns,Gils Neelys and Cefalus  and dozens of others were having their heads caved in and publicly standing up for the field. When Congress refers to ATF whistle blowers and field Agent abuses openly, THAT would be a good time to step up. Not just when somebody has had enough of ATF BS and wants to abolish us.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

http://www.cbsnews.c...kend-shootings/
 
Check out this link.

I think doc was being rhetorical. The so called surges consist of a few SAC/ASAC buddies and a cpl HQ folks who haven't been in the field for yrs. A few press releases and done. They are pointless and expensive and show how shortsighted out Executive staff is. And FYI, NOBODY IS BUY-IN THE UNDERSTAFFED AND UNDERBUDGETED RHETORIC. WE HAVE JUST AS MANY AGENTS AS WE DID 20 YRS AGO AND WE PUT 10 TIMES AS MANY VASES ON THE TABLE. WHAT WE DIDNT HAVE BACK THEN ARE SACS BEING MOVED 3 AND 4TIME IN A FIVE YR PERIOD TO COVER THEIR INCOMPETENCE.

[GoodWorker]

With all the unprecedented shootings in Chicago over the fourth, Why doesn't Mr. Jones and Brandon deploy their supercop Frontline surge program there? A surge by ATF is just the thing to end the gun violence. NOT

http://www.cbsnews.c...kend-shootings/

 

Check out this link. 

[Heisenberg]

We had a surge in my Post of Duty. It started and ended with an agent who was sent by headquarters who found pleasure in badmouthing the local agents to the local assistant US Attorneys, and bragging about how him and his team were not like the local "piece of shit" agents. Too bad he was too arrogant and stupid to realize that some of us had worked for years to actually build relationships with them and as soon as he finished running his big mouth, our phones were burning up with all of the lurid details of his smart assed commentary.

It certainly inspires trust in headquarters though, doesnt it?

[abteilung]

With all the unprecedented shootings in Chicago over the fourth, Why doesn't Mr. Jones and Brandon deploy their supercop Frontline surge program there? A surge by ATF is just the thing to end the gun violence. NOT

Yeah, the Surge in Philadelphia worked wonderfully [eyes rolling sarcastically].  I'm sure it'll work just as well in Chicago.  Bring in agents who don't know how to do cases, pay them per diem and for their hotels for 90-120 days, and accomplish NOTHING.

[Doc Holiday]

With all the unprecedented shootings in Chicago over the fourth, Why doesn't Mr. Jones and Brandon deploy their supercop Frontline surge program there? A surge by ATF is just the thing to end the gun violence. NOT

[Doc Holiday]

Wow. SAC Riehl, ASACs Delvecchio and Coffey are not satisfied running off 30 year veteran and along with 30 years of institutional knowledge. But now have threatened to "holdup" the Agents pension if the Agent does not submit to an exit interview. #1 thats illegal. #2 Its extortion and abusive and the very reason senior Agents are leaving in droves. And FINALLY, I would be careful trying to bully an Agent on their way out the door when they hold the very information that will surely have these 3 immediately relieved of duty. Just sayin fellas. Read your own policies. This Agent does not HAVE TO submit to your stupid exit interview.

Word is Coffey is retiring. That was a short stay in SF. Is this Turks answer to Riehl, and Coffeys coverup and internal non investigation of highly disturbing allegations forwarded directly to HQ and the OIG? The allegations include mishandling of AC funds, and compromising UC operations. Emails will be attached shortly where Turk states "I had no idea".

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Not surprised at all. This has been the intent of Mr Jones since he arrived at ATF. I know we have been here before and as an agency have fought off the idea, albeit with help from the NRA who is scared of the other Justice Department agencies. With a history of mismanagement, sexual harassment, scandals, preferential promotion etc, the hard working street agents have been painted with the same broad brush as management. Maybe, just maybe, this is an opportunity to become the ATF Enforcement Unit of the FBI and finally have a working management system. I know they are not perfect, but they have congressional support, public support and no funding issues. ATF Agents deserve better than they are getting under the current leadership. I do not want to disparage the good leaders we have, but they are stuck in a bad system. A change may be the best way for the real workers to be recognized and allowed to do the job the right way, and at the same time weed out the bad leaders and non-working agents. I am not sure if this is the right solution and I may be trying to convince myself that it is. Just a thought.

I think it appropriate to share this. For those who are new to ATF, Congressman(ret.) Jim Lightfoot who at the time was the Chair of the Treasury Appropriations, along with Dennis DiConcini, saved ATF. They had vision and courage and demanded action from our leadership. This is what he has to say about the current state of affairs at ATF;

 

Jim Lightfoot There has been an ongoing effort to kill ATF for years. However, in the past the agency has come together with its champions in the Congress and turned those efforts back. Today the top brass appears to be in agreement with those that think ATF should go. Putting ATF in DOJ was step one on this road to destruction. For one, creating a huge law enforcement agency that is responsible for all laws with only one Director is a threat to our freedom. Like medicine, under the old system we had a panel of "specialists" to go to i.e. ATF = Firearms and Tobacco Law, USSS = Counterfeiting, FBI = Kidnapping and the list goes on. Under the "Super Cop" scenario a President bent on ruling rather than governing our country has but one person to sway his/her way, the Director, and that President has the most powerful method to rule a populace at their fingertips. It is no longer law enforcement to protect the people, rather it is law enforcement to rule/control the people. Bill Clinton tried this and was resoundly defeated. No doubt ATF does not have a large fan base and it becomes more of an uphill battle when top management appears to be doing everything in its power to destroy the agency from within. The shortsightedness of Congressmen/women that do not see the danger in rolling ATF law enforcement responsibilities into FBI or whatever never fails to astound me. You don't have to be bright to get elected, just be the person with the most votes.

[Patriot]

Not surprised at all. This has been the intent of Mr Jones since he arrived at ATF. I know we have been here before and as an agency have fought off the idea, albeit with help from the NRA who is scared of the other Justice Department agencies. With a history of mismanagement, sexual harassment, scandals, preferential promotion etc, the hard working street agents have been painted with the same broad brush as management. Maybe, just maybe, this is an opportunity to become the ATF Enforcement Unit of the FBI and finally have a working management system. I know they are not perfect, but they have congressional support, public support and no funding issues. ATF Agents deserve better than they are getting under the current leadership. I do not want to disparage the good leaders we have, but they are stuck in a bad system. A change may be the best way for the real workers to be recognized and allowed to do the job the right way, and at the same time weed out the bad leaders and non-working agents. I am not sure if this is the right solution and I may be trying to convince myself that it is. Just a thought.

[x1811]

I don't believe that the FBI will ever allow itself to be forced into absorbing 1811's who have not attended the FBI Academy.  Maybe they'll considering hiring ATF agents who have passed the FBI assessment [one of my CITP classmates jumped over to the FBI after a couple of years], but their culture will never allow them to accept as FBI agents anyone who hasn't gone through their process. 

 

However, ICE could probably absorb a thousand or so.  As for the rest, maybe a few ATF agents will end up at FPS or the Special IG for Afghanistan.  As for those who haven't done any cases in their entire careers [and we all know quite a few from our respective offices], they can always hope for a buyout.

I knew several 1811's from ATF, DEA, Marshals, Secret Service and other agencies who switched to the FBI.  They were all required to go through the application and testing process like all other applicants, then attend the academy in Quantico.

[GoodWorker]

Does this suprise anyone?  It shoudn't.

 

Bill by Jim Sensenbrenner would dissolve federal ATF agency

http://www.jsonline....-266361761.html

 

 

The bureau has been here before so panic is premature.  This is a sad event for those who committed themselves to the agency but everyone saw this coming.

 

Way to go Jones.  We know, we know, its not your fault.  You were given way more than your fair share of chances to make changes and improvements.  You have flat out failed.  Really no other way to view it.

ATF leaders have repeatedly proven they cannot handle running a professional organization.  Let us merge into an agency that has professional standards and leaders.

[abteilung]

• Word is that the Sensenbrenner bill has a real chance of passing.  Congress is done with ATF's non-response and cover-up games and a move on both sides of the isle to absorb agents into other agencies and abolish ATF is considered valid.

 

There is a theory gaining stronger traction that Jones was brought in to dismantle ATF and Brandon and Turk went along for the ride.  Take a look at their track records and tell me that that the theory is not a very credible one.

 

I hope it does not happen.  There is simply too much talent in the field to allow them to be buried elsewhere.  If it does everyone knows where to look.  It will be very interesting to see what Obama and Holder's comments are once the bill is introduced.  Jones will simply say what he is told to.  BTW, sitting with your boots up and smoking cigars on the patio while dropping f-bombs will never, ever make you one of the boys (girls). 

 

Can you spell B-E-T-R-A-Y-A-L?

I don't believe that the FBI will ever allow itself to be forced into absorbing 1811's who have not attended the FBI Academy.  Maybe they'll considering hiring ATF agents who have passed the FBI assessment [one of my CITP classmates jumped over to the FBI after a couple of years], but their culture will never allow them to accept as FBI agents anyone who hasn't gone through their process. 

 

However, ICE could probably absorb a thousand or so.  As for the rest, maybe a few ATF agents will end up at FPS or the Special IG for Afghanistan.  As for those who haven't done any cases in their entire careers [and we all know quite a few from our respective offices], they can always hope for a buyout.

[Jaime3]

I will miss Kay.
She did so much to help others in battling ATF corruption and will be missed as the fight for Justice continues.

Anyone who has been unfortunate enough to be the target of ATFs unprecedented abuses, KNOWS the name Kay Kubicki. I have been involved in a professional dispute with ATF for myself and representing others for over 8 years. I would have never survived any of it without Kay on my speed dial. I take particular pleasure having observed the physical sheer terror in the eyes of ATF corrupt counsel and managers when they heard her voice. I will miss her but she so deserves a break from the ugliness. RIP Kay.

[Heisenberg]

Despite this Senator's attempt to pander to his pro-Second Amendment constituency, this bill will never make it past the House and Senate. The NRA will kill this bill dead. The last thing they want is for a fully staffed, funded, and well led agency that is actually capable of enforcing the nation's gun laws.

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

A few new tidbits in today - albiet alleged - I have strong reason to believe they are true given the HQ source:

 

• Many of the SES's and AD's were provided the privlige to do a 3-hour Glock transition course vs. the 20+ hour training mandated to field employees.  Two sets of rules for two "classes" of employees.  Nothing new there.

 

• A Trainee at the Academy was repeatedly unable to qualify with his/her duty weapon.  He/She failed the remediation training.  By policy this calls for dismissal from the academy.  Fortunately for this trainee, his/her father was a close friend of Brandon's.  Brandon ordered that the trainee be allowed to qualify privately under the guideance of his hand-selected firearms instructor.  The traininee miraculously became proficient and "qualified".  The books were cooked to make it appear legit.  If you are his friend, you will be taken care of.  If not, tough luck.  This opens the door for any trainee who was dismissed from the academy for any number of 'failure to complete's' for reconsideration and reinstatement.

 

• Word is that the Sensenbrenner bill has a real chance of passing.  Congress is done with ATF's non-response and cover-up games and a move on both sides of the isle to absorb agents into other agencies and abolish ATF is considered valid.

 

There is a theory gaining stronger traction that Jones was brought in to dismantle ATF and Brandon and Turk went along for the ride.  Take a look at their track records and tell me that that the theory is not a very credible one.

 

I hope it does not happen.  There is simply too much talent in the field to allow them to be buried elsewhere.  If it does everyone knows where to look.  It will be very interesting to see what Obama and Holder's comments are once the bill is introduced.  Jones will simply say what he is told to.  BTW, sitting with your boots up and smoking cigars on the patio while dropping f-bombs will never, ever make you one of the boys (girls). 

 

Can you spell B-E-T-R-A-Y-A-L?

[abteilung]

An extremely sad side-note but totally consistent with our beloved Bureaus leadership, one of the employees Kay was actively representing was just denied an extension for her interrogatories. Who does this Mr. Jones?

I think I know to whom you are referring.  That person just told me their story recently and it's probably one of the most brutal stories of harassment of a government employee I have ever heard.  The responsible parties should be in federal prison for civil rights abuse.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

An extremely sad sidenote but totally consistent with our beloved Bureaus leadership, one of the employees Kay was actively representing was just denied an extension for her innterrogatories. Who does this Mr. Jones?

Anyone who has been unfortunate enough to be the target of ATFs unprecedented abuses, KNOWS the name Kay Kubicki. I have been involved in a professional dispute with ATF for myself and representing others for over 8 years. I would have never survived any of it without Kay on my speed dial. I take particular pleasure having observed the physical sheer terror in the eyes of ATF corrupt counsel and managers when they heard her voice. I will miss her but she so deserves a break from the ugliness. RIP Kay.

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

Does this suprise anyone?  It shoudn't.

 

Bill by Jim Sensenbrenner would dissolve federal ATF agency

http://www.jsonline....-266361761.html

 

 

The bureau has been here before so panic is premature.  This is a sad event for those who committed themselves to the agency but everyone saw this coming.

 

Way to go Jones.  We know, we know, its not your fault.  You were given way more than your fair share of chances to make changes and improvements.  You have flat out failed.  Really no other way to view it.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

THIS COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED

 

Had Mr. Jones, Turk and Brandon acted decisvely and held themselves and their subordinates accountable, instead of protecting abuseive and corrupt Executives, it would have never come to this. Many of you have lamented it may be time to rethink our viability as an agency. I have resisted throwing out the baby with the bath water. It was inevitable with the lack of leadership. We pray there are other alternatives.

 

http://www.jsonline....-266361761.html

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

If it's OK with the moderator, I'd like to post the following at Sandy Davis's request.  She would like the following to get out to those people for whom she doesn't have contact information and who would want to know the arrangements for Kay.

 

 

I have always been in awe of the shear force of Kay. She came to my rescue 28 years ago and stood up and told the truth when not many would. I could have never won my case without her. She became my friend, mentor, and godmother to my twins. I have always said (usually with a chuckle) that you have never been loved and protected until you have been loved and protected by Kay Kubicki. I doubt she ever met a bully she didn’t challenge and God help anyone who stood between her and someone she wanted to protect. 

 

She was such a beautiful enigma of fierceness and compassion. The same woman who had no fear of the wrath of the federal government and provoked this wrath on an almost daily basis, would shed tears for a homeless person begging for a dollar. Kay always gave them the dollar if they promised to say a prayer. Since most of Kay's clients had been financially destroyed and fired, I have no doubt that many times it was her last dollar.

 

The title of the movie “A Beautiful Mind” always reminded me of Kay. Her amazing mind missed nothing and she had the ability to see things long before most of us. I learned not to question her insight because she usually turned out to be right no matter how far fetched her insight seemed when first heard. A perfect example of this was her insistence, from the very beginning, that Fast and Furious was no typical government screwup, but quite intentional. Most laughed this off as ridiculous. As usual, Kay was proven correct in the end and the naysayers ended up looking like halfwits. I watched this pattern repeat through the years. I eventually just deferred to Kay on most things. Quite frankly I got tired of looking like a halfwit.

 

In almost 30 years,I have never known Kay to turn away anyone in trouble. Just last week, at age 65 and in inner city Detroit, Kay grabbed a shovel and charged a man who was beating his wife. I know when this man looked into Kay’s eyes, he saw no fear, only outrage. Like me, he apparently decided to defer to Kay because he stopped hitting the woman and went back into his house. 

 

It’s certainly no secret that Kay lost her law license a few years back after her first stroke. Mainly because she didn’t feel well enough to bother to respond to a complaint. When I would encourage her to just get her license reinstated, her response was so typical Kay Kubicki, “Sandy, I don’t give a rat’s ass that I am no longer licensed through the bar. I don’t need a piece of paper announcing that I belong to that contemptible tribe of imbeciles. And let’s face, the bar’s standards are rather low don’t you think? Just look at who they let have a license”. She despised being called an attorney. I don’t blame her. She was in every sense of the word an advocate.

 

Many of the newer employees aren’t aware of this but there were very few ATF exposures that Kay wasn’t behind in some form in the last three decades. From the sexual harassment issues in the late 80s, to the ‘good ole boy roundup’ in the 90s, and of course Fast and Furious, she worked tirelessly to shine the light on the abuses of this agency.

 

I have never known Kay to look away from any injustice, and while it makes me happy to think of her in a place where there are no injustices, I know I will miss her everyday. I also know that her soul was much too beautiful for this world and that she is home now. 

 

Thank you for all the kind words I’ve received about Kay. It means so much to me to know how many of you appreciated how hard she battled ATF on behalf of all of us. I know it would also mean a lot to her family. Here is a link where you can share your memories and leave condolences.  

 

http://obituaries.ex...bile=88fa335694   

 

Rest in peace Kay. I was privileged to have you in my life and honored that you felt I was worthy of your friendship.    

An extremely sad side-note but totally consistent with our beloved Bureaus leadership, one of the employees Kay was actively representing was just denied an extension for her interrogatories. Who does this Mr. Jones?

[abteilung]

If it's OK with the moderator, I'd like to post the following at Sandy Davis's request.  She would like the following to get out to those people for whom she doesn't have contact information and who would want to know the arrangements for Kay.

 

 

I have always been in awe of the shear force of Kay. She came to my rescue 28 years ago and stood up and told the truth when not many would. I could have never won my case without her. She became my friend, mentor, and godmother to my twins. I have always said (usually with a chuckle) that you have never been loved and protected until you have been loved and protected by Kay Kubicki. I doubt she ever met a bully she didn’t challenge and God help anyone who stood between her and someone she wanted to protect. 

 

She was such a beautiful enigma of fierceness and compassion. The same woman who had no fear of the wrath of the federal government and provoked this wrath on an almost daily basis, would shed tears for a homeless person begging for a dollar. Kay always gave them the dollar if they promised to say a prayer. Since most of Kay's clients had been financially destroyed and fired, I have no doubt that many times it was her last dollar.

 

The title of the movie “A Beautiful Mind” always reminded me of Kay. Her amazing mind missed nothing and she had the ability to see things long before most of us. I learned not to question her insight because she usually turned out to be right no matter how far fetched her insight seemed when first heard. A perfect example of this was her insistence, from the very beginning, that Fast and Furious was no typical government screwup, but quite intentional. Most laughed this off as ridiculous. As usual, Kay was proven correct in the end and the naysayers ended up looking like halfwits. I watched this pattern repeat through the years. I eventually just deferred to Kay on most things. Quite frankly I got tired of looking like a halfwit.

 

In almost 30 years,I have never known Kay to turn away anyone in trouble. Just last week, at age 65 and in inner city Detroit, Kay grabbed a shovel and charged a man who was beating his wife. I know when this man looked into Kay’s eyes, he saw no fear, only outrage. Like me, he apparently decided to defer to Kay because he stopped hitting the woman and went back into his house. 

 

It’s certainly no secret that Kay lost her law license a few years back after her first stroke. Mainly because she didn’t feel well enough to bother to respond to a complaint. When I would encourage her to just get her license reinstated, her response was so typical Kay Kubicki, “Sandy, I don’t give a rat’s ass that I am no longer licensed through the bar. I don’t need a piece of paper announcing that I belong to that contemptible tribe of imbeciles. And let’s face, the bar’s standards are rather low don’t you think? Just look at who they let have a license”. She despised being called an attorney. I don’t blame her. She was in every sense of the word an advocate.

 

Many of the newer employees aren’t aware of this but there were very few ATF exposures that Kay wasn’t behind in some form in the last three decades. From the sexual harassment issues in the late 80s, to the ‘good ole boy roundup’ in the 90s, and of course Fast and Furious, she worked tirelessly to shine the light on the abuses of this agency.

 

I have never known Kay to look away from any injustice, and while it makes me happy to think of her in a place where there are no injustices, I know I will miss her everyday. I also know that her soul was much too beautiful for this world and that she is home now. 

 

Thank you for all the kind words I’ve received about Kay. It means so much to me to know how many of you appreciated how hard she battled ATF on behalf of all of us. I know it would also mean a lot to her family. Here is a link where you can share your memories and leave condolences.  

 

http://obituaries.ex...bile=88fa335694   

 

Rest in peace Kay. I was privileged to have you in my life and honored that you felt I was worthy of your friendship.    

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

RIP Kay.  Kay and I did not always see eye-to-eye but she was fearless when battling ATF over corruption and the mistreatment of employees.  She never backed down or away.  She had advice for anyone needing guidance on what to do or how to do it.  She wanted nothing more than to help those who needed it.  Her sprit for fighting the monster of corruption at ATF was unmatched.  Her passing is very sad news.  Ms. Kubicki, we will do our best to follow your lead now that you are gone.  Your work is done here but your inspiration lives on in those you assisted.

I read this today and thought it a fitting tribute to Kay, on our Independance weekend and for those who have chosen to fight the fight against corruption in the open.

 

"Do you know what the early colonists did once they signed the Declaration of Independence? They read it out loud in public. They published it in the newspaper. They spread the word. They continued to declare and celebrate even though they were in the midst of the battle."

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

It is with great sadness that we pray for Kay Kubicki. Kay passed after suffering a stroke. Our prayers to her friends and family. Also our appreciation for her exhaustive efforts to protect and insulate those from the abuses of ATF Senior managers. She will be missed. If we receive details regarding her services, we will pass them along. R.I.P. Kay.

RIP Kay.  Kay and I did not always see eye-to-eye but she was fearless when battling ATF over corruption and the mistreatment of employees.  She never backed down or away.  She had advice for anyone needing guidance on what to do or how to do it.  She wanted nothing more than to help those who needed it.  Her sprit for fighting the monster of corruption at ATF was unmatched.  Her passing is very sad news.  Ms. Kubicki, we will do our best to follow your lead now that you are gone.  Your work is done here but your inspiration lives on in those you assisted.

[abteilung]

I couldn't say it any better than GoodWorker did.

 

It's terrible how fighting evil takes years off your life.

[GoodWorker]

It is with great sadness that we pray for Kay Kubicki. Kay passed after suffering a stroke. Our prayers to her friends and family. Also our appreciation for her exhaustive efforts to protect and insulate those from the abuses of ATF Senior managers. She will be missed. If we receive details regarding her services, we will pass them along. R.I.P. Kay.

Although I have never met Kay in person, I have spoken to her on the phone a few times and she was always friendly and genuine.  She was a great person who only sought justice for people.  She will be missed.  I know she is enjoying her first day in heaven.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

It is with great sadness that we ask for your prayers for former ATF Agent/ Supervisor Kay Kubicki. Kay has become very ill. There has been no more committed advocate for change in this Bureau and no stronger warrior for those she has advocated for. She has spent her years tirelessly fighting ATF Chief Counsels Office on behalf of so many who have been wronged. We pray for her recovery.

It is with great sadness that we pray for Kay Kubicki. Kay passed after suffering a stroke. Our prayers to her friends and family. Also our appreciation for her exhaustive efforts to protect and insulate those from the abuses of ATF Senior managers. She will be missed. If we receive details regarding her services, we will pass them along. R.I.P. Kay.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

The climate survey results are out and they are revealing of what people think of the promotion process.  Some of the other results were surprising also and this is only with a sample of the employees taking the survey.

If you have those survey results PLEASE post them.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

It is with great sadness that we ask for your prayers for former ATF Agent/ Supervisor Kay Kubicki. Kay has become very ill. There has been no more committed advocate for change in this Bureau and no stronger warrior for those she has advocated for. She has spent her years tirelessly fighting ATF Chief Counsels Office on behalf of so many who have been wronged. We pray for her recovery.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

To All, have a happy and safe Independence day. Remember those who gave all to stand up to abusive government and ensured our freedoms.

The climate survey results are out and they are revealing of what people think of the promotion process. Some of the other results were surprising also and this is only with a sample of the employees taking the survey.

[GoodWorker]

The point being....we can all be a witness to the truth.

Integrity & honesty can be found amongst everyone and in sometimes uncommon places.
It's disappointing that many past, and present, atf managers will never be capable of knowing right from wrong. It is particularly disheartening though that no one from the office of chief counsel hasn't ever spoken out.
Over and out.

The climate survey results are out and they are revealing of what people think of the promotion process.  Some of the other results were surprising also and this is only with a sample of the employees taking the survey.

[ProConfesso]

The point being....we can all be a witness to the truth.

Integrity & honesty can be found amongst everyone and in sometimes uncommon places.
It's disappointing that many past, and present, atf managers will never be capable of knowing right from wrong. It is particularly disheartening though that no one from the office of chief counsel hasn't ever spoken out.
Over and out.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

We anxiously await the Judges decision and the accompanying unsealing of the record. You have been wronged by the agency you have served for so many years. Also the conduct of Ms. Bouman, Mr. Harrington and ATF executive staff will surely trigger DOJ OPSRO investigations for years to come. Ms. Boumans hasty departure begs to question whether her conduct has been highlighted in the Judges decision.For the record, anyone who knows me knows I NEVER LACK CANDOR. 11 counts were alleged in my termination proposal. 10 were unsubstantiated. The ONE count of Lack of Candor was based on an IA investigation which failed to interview two undercover investigators and a HQ program manager ALL who stated my testimony was true and correct. They shoulda just gave me the Vanessa Mclemore, Kelvin Crenshaw, John Torres, Mark Chait, Billy Hoover and McMahon and Julie Torres deals. Oh yeah, Im not on the PROTECTED team of managers.

The issues for the FIELD at large, is whether our leadership can and does do THE RIGHT THING. OR, consistent with the prior practices of Truscott, Sullivan, Melson et al. they defend the indefensible? Clearly Judge Allegra and hopefully the Judge in my case will defend their courtrooms and aggressively pursue Perjury, 1001 violations and judicial misconduct. It is realistic to expect in the near future, there will be several openings in our senior ranks.

[ProConfesso]

"Judge Allegra has encountered a medical issue that will slightly delay the issuance of his opinion. I am 1000% OK with however long that may take. For those who support me, have patience with me. The truth is all I ever needed and it is coming. "

In another case.......
On the third day of Mr. Moniem’s testimony, T. Patrick Martin, the prosecutor, apologized and said he had just a few more questions. Mr. Moniem said there was no need to rush.
“All my time is to you,” he said, smiling. “As long as we are trying to arrive at what is right and helpful to people, I am here and at your service.”
Saran Dead Abdul Moniem, Iraq Traffic Officer, as quoted in Federal District Court on Tuesday.

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

Based on yesterday's reciept of closing arguement transcripts, we are growing closer. 

 

Judge Allegra has encountered a medical issue that will slightly delay the issuance of his opinion.  I am 1000% OK with however long that may take.  For those who support me, have patience with me.  The truth is all I ever needed and it is coming. 

 

August will be the 6 year anniversary of the arson of my home.  If I have to wait for another 6 months to hear Judge Allegra's opinion of what took place and what he learned in his courtroom I do so with full confidence and faith that the truth will be exposed.

 

ATF Executives think that all of this is taking place inside a bubble of disinterest and that they are safe from what they did.  They are dead on wrong.  See today's posting, link attached.  Others who demand the truth have their eye on the ball and know what this means to all of us, beyond the institution of ATF.

 

http://www.examiner....ity-dobyns-suit

 

This will ultimately go well beyond the facts and evidence of what was done to me and my family.  I promise each of you that I will seek accountablity for every last single person who acted corruptly, regardless of their role or actions during this lawsuit.  No one will ever have to go through what they put me through if there is anything I can do about it.  And I can.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

I recieved a transcript of the closing arguements in my case.  I did not alter or edit any of the language, just lifted a couple clips to make my point. 

 

Jones, Brandon and Turk need to prepare to terminate some of their buddies when my judge rules.  They've got an established track record behind "allegations" of lack of candor; Vince Cefalu comes to mind, and others.  No need to seek the truth Mr. Director, an allegation is all it takes, right?  You established your precident boys, now apply it across the board.  I'm pretty sure that Judge Allegra is going to go beyond an allegation so it should be a really easy decision for you.

 

*Of Special Note:  My judge states that not only is the perjury of government witnesses a concern to him but additonally, ATF employees may have acted criminally.  Ouch!  That attempted cover-up just ain't working out as planned, now is it?

 

Get your embellished resumes and phony LinkedIn accounts up to date.  The fun is just starting.  Now its my turn.

 

Jones and Brandon could have done something about this.  They were in a perfect position to lead and be heroes to the field.  They decided it was best to just not do anything.  They feel leadership is covering for their inner circle.

 

 

THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

 

JAY ANTHONY DOBYNS, )

Plaintiff, )

vs. ) Case No. 08-700C

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )

Defendant. )

 

Courtroom 6-A

Evo A. DeConcini U.S. Courthouse

405 West Congress Street

Tucson, Arizona 85701-5010

Tuesday, February 18, 2014

9:30 a.m.

Closing Arguments

BEFORE: THE HONORABLE FRANCIS M. ALLEGRA

 

3 LAW CLERK: All rise.

4 United States Court of Federal Claims is now in

5 session, the Honorable Francis M. Allegra now presiding.

6 THE COURT: Please be seated.

7 We're here this morning for a closing argument in

8 Jay Anthony Dobyns vs. United States. That is case number

9 08-700.

 

 

Page 5.

22 THE COURT [Allegra]: So I've been a judge for 15 years. This case is, I

23 have to say, very unique. It is a -- it is a discomforting

24 case, on some levels, wrenching, and one that you know I

25 urged you both to settle. Based upon the extensive record in

 

Page 6.

1 this case, there's not, in my mind already -- and I've not

2 gone through, as you know, every single piece of paper -- but

3 I have to say I don't think there's serious question that

4 certain agents of the ATF here acted inappropriately, likely

5 contrary to Agency policy and maybe even unlawfully in

6 dealing with Agent Dobyns.

 

-

 

9 But there's significant evidence

10 suggesting that other contact -- conduct, directed at Agent

11 Dobyns and his family was purposeful with at least some

12 indication that conduct was prompted by professional

13 jealousy, intra-agency rivalries within the ATF or perhaps

14 just spite, and I just note that there's evidence in that

15 regard.

-

17 To make matters worse, I am deeply concerned that

18 some of the ATF agents who testified before me during this

19 three-week trial were less than candid. Rest assured that

20 aided by the extensive record in this case, which includes

21 the results of various ATF investigations, I will get to the

22 bottom of who is telling the truth here. And no matter how

23 this case turns out, I will render extensive findings about

24 what the ATF did and did not do here, and I've been telling

25 that to both counsel here since the start.

 

And after argueing that ATF had done nothing wrong and the only guilty part in the courtroom was me, DOJ's attorney offered this...

 

Page 103.

1 THE COURT: You're getting close to halfway

2 through, I thought I would just point that out to you.

3 You're at 40 minutes.

4 MR. HARRINGTON: Time flies when you're having fun.

5 THE COURT: Yes, sir.

We anxiously await the Judges decision and the accompanying unsealing of the record. You have been wronged by the agency you have served for so many years. Also the conduct of Ms. Bouman, Mr. Harrington and ATF executive staff will surely trigger DOJ OPSRO investigations for years to come. Ms. Boumans hasty departure begs to question whether her conduct has been highlighted in the Judges decision.For the record, anyone who knows me knows I NEVER LACK CANDOR. 11 counts were alleged in my termination proposal. 10 were unsubstanitated. The ONE count of Lack of Candor was based on an IA investigation which failed to interview two undercover investigators and a HQ program manager ALL who stated my testimony was true and correct. They shoulda just gave me the Vanessa Mclemore, Kelvin Crenshaw, John Torres, Mark Chait, Billy Hoover and McMahon and Julie Torres deals. Oh yeah, Im not on the PROTECTED team of managers.

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

I recieved a transcript of the closing arguements in my case.  I did not alter or edit any of the language, just lifted a couple clips to make my point. 

 

Jones, Brandon and Turk need to prepare to terminate some of their buddies when my judge rules.  They've got an established track record behind "allegations" of lack of candor; Vince Cefalu comes to mind, and others.  No need to seek the truth Mr. Director, an allegation is all it takes, right?  You established your precident boys, now apply it across the board.  I'm pretty sure that Judge Allegra is going to go beyond an allegation so it should be a really easy decision for you.

 

*Of Special Note:  My judge states that not only is the perjury of government witnesses a concern to him but additonally, ATF employees may have acted criminally.  Ouch!  That attempted cover-up just ain't working out as planned, now is it?

 

Get your embellished resumes and phony LinkedIn accounts up to date.  The fun is just starting.  Now its my turn.

 

Jones and Brandon could have done something about this.  They were in a perfect position to lead and be heroes to the field.  They decided it was best to just not do anything.  They feel leadership is covering for their inner circle.

 

 

THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

 

JAY ANTHONY DOBYNS, )

Plaintiff, )

vs. ) Case No. 08-700C

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )

Defendant. )

 

Courtroom 6-A

Evo A. DeConcini U.S. Courthouse

405 West Congress Street

Tucson, Arizona 85701-5010

Tuesday, February 18, 2014

9:30 a.m.

Closing Arguments

BEFORE: THE HONORABLE FRANCIS M. ALLEGRA

 

3 LAW CLERK: All rise.

4 United States Court of Federal Claims is now in

5 session, the Honorable Francis M. Allegra now presiding.

6 THE COURT: Please be seated.

7 We're here this morning for a closing argument in

8 Jay Anthony Dobyns vs. United States. That is case number

9 08-700.

 

 

Page 5.

22 THE COURT [Allegra]: So I've been a judge for 15 years. This case is, I

23 have to say, very unique. It is a -- it is a discomforting

24 case, on some levels, wrenching, and one that you know I

25 urged you both to settle. Based upon the extensive record in

 

Page 6.

1 this case, there's not, in my mind already -- and I've not

2 gone through, as you know, every single piece of paper -- but

3 I have to say I don't think there's serious question that

4 certain agents of the ATF here acted inappropriately, likely

5 contrary to Agency policy and maybe even unlawfully in

6 dealing with Agent Dobyns.

 

-

 

9 But there's significant evidence

10 suggesting that other contact -- conduct, directed at Agent

11 Dobyns and his family was purposeful with at least some

12 indication that conduct was prompted by professional

13 jealousy, intra-agency rivalries within the ATF or perhaps

14 just spite, and I just note that there's evidence in that

15 regard.

-

17 To make matters worse, I am deeply concerned that

18 some of the ATF agents who testified before me during this

19 three-week trial were less than candid. Rest assured that

20 aided by the extensive record in this case, which includes

21 the results of various ATF investigations, I will get to the

22 bottom of who is telling the truth here. And no matter how

23 this case turns out, I will render extensive findings about

24 what the ATF did and did not do here, and I've been telling

25 that to both counsel here since the start.

 

And after argueing that ATF had done nothing wrong and the only guilty part in the courtroom was me, DOJ's attorney offered this...

 

Page 103.

1 THE COURT: You're getting close to halfway

2 through, I thought I would just point that out to you.

3 You're at 40 minutes.

4 MR. HARRINGTON: Time flies when you're having fun.

5 THE COURT: Yes, sir.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

...and they sue me in fed court for (alledgedly) compromising tradecraft? What gives Mr. Jones? Hypocrites.

Obviously, the rules dont apply to HQ. That whole lead by example thing escaped our Executive staff that are compromising the field almost daily for ANY positive press. News flash Mr. JONES....you dont have to place agents in harms way to do feel good story's. You made such a stink about the field leaking LE sensitive info and then you plaster it on the front page. PLEASE stop. This is NOT a game.

http://chicagoist.co...wn_captured.php

"...we've embedded the video below, which was captured via hidden camera by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in the basement of a west suburban home, that shows a member of the Latin Kings being issued a beatdown by 15 fellow Latin Kings because he failed to carry out a hit on a rival gang member."

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

...and they sue me in fed court for (alledgedly) compromising tradecraft? What gives Mr. Jones? Hypocrites.

http://chicagoist.co...wn_captured.php

"...we've embedded the video below, which was captured via hidden camera by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in the basement of a west suburban home, that shows a member of the Latin Kings being issued a beatdown by 15 fellow Latin Kings because he failed to carry out a hit on a rival gang member."

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

...and they sue me in fed court for (alledgedly) compromising tradecraft?  What gives Mr. Jones?  Hypocrites.

 

http://chicagoist.co...wn_captured.php

 

"...we've embedded the video below, which was captured via hidden camera by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in the basement of a west suburban home, that shows a member of the Latin Kings being issued a beatdown by 15 fellow Latin Kings because he failed to carry out a hit on a rival gang member."

[Heisenberg]

ATF HQ is not only asleep at the wheel and critically disconnected from their own management staff, but it would appear that their own leadership core has lost all respect for the executive staff.Zapor dishonored EVERY SAC in the country and diminished the position . Undercover is NOT a game. It is the MOST dangerous and specialized technique we use. HQ looks more like a clown car, turning out one clown after another, and they just keep coming.

.

I reallly can't find it in me to lay this one on the feet of HQ this time. I don't really think that anyone in that building sees Zapor as anything other than what he is: A big dope.

Insane.

[ProConfesso]

https://beta.congres...113hr4707ih.pdf
Check out the amount of money allocated for this foolishness. This bill will do next to nothing to make the streets safer. The CDC no less. Hey congressperson Maloney - the NYC council request for 1000 NYC police officers was just shot down, no pun intended. Not that we should be encouraging your wasteful spending of the publics money but if you want to fund something, something useful in this regard, spend the tax dollars on uniformed police.

[ProConfesso]

Might it be a good idea that every single illegal alien crossing the TX and AZ border in this recent wave be entered into the NICS data base. 18 USC 922(g)(5)(A)
An ounce of prevention if you will.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

FYI    Interesting as it applies to Whistleblowers. The high court did not address the decision as it relates to law enforcement.

Attached Files

•  sc.pdf   227.42KB   21 downloads

[abteilung]

ATF HQ is not only asleep at the wheel and critically disconnected from their own management staff, but it would appear that their own leadership core has lost all respect for the executive staff.Zapor dishonored EVERY SAC in the country and diminished the position . Undercover is NOT a game. It is the MOST dangerous and specialized technique we use. HQ looks more like a clown car, turning out one clown after another, and they just keep coming.
 

Hey, at least those are LUXURY clown cars.  After all, isn't the former Cadillac SAC now in HQ?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

ATF HQ is not only asleep at the wheel and critically disconnected from their own management staff, but it would appear that their own leadership core has lost all respect for the executive staff.Zapor dishonored EVERY SAC in the country and diminished the position . Undercover is NOT a game. It is the MOST dangerous and specialized technique we use. HQ looks more like a clown car, turning out one clown after another, and they just keep coming.

If true, and the word on the street is that it is, I think this is hilarious. Dude came in as an agent and wanted to got out as one (I am assuming. I have not spoken to him.). I am not going to enter the debate beyond this. More than what BJ did or didn't do is that he is getting the last laugh. Not many people leave here with that. I wanted to exit like this. I had the offers to go out with some "street" under my belt during my last week. I didn't have the stones to accept the opportunity. Kinda wish I had now.