563 replies to this topic

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Seriously?  Tell me if we have this right. SA Andy Traver is/was the unconifrmsble nominee for Director. He is a SES SAC in Chicago which he applied for. He has realized that he is NOT nor will he ever be the Director of this Bureau, or they would have made him Acting Director to show his skilled leadership. So he sits completely silent for over one year,(throughout the entirety of the Biggest law enforcement scandal in this great Bureaus history)(I thought he had retired or left the country)and now is leaving a SAC job to fill a SAC job in Denver where he is from and has history. HOWEVER, IF he were to either retire in one year OR actually be confirmed as Director, NOW Denver gets yet another SAC and the tax payers get ANOTHER new SAC. Does anybody get the TOTAL lack of continuity prevading this Bureau? Whats next, Ford to Chicago so he can retire? Perhaps this is exactly why ATF will be audited. Gross waste fraud and abuse? How can they possibly justify the constant SES moves for a yr or yr and a half. How can Marvin Richardson maintain much less advance as an SES when the OIG stated emphatecally he lacked candor, (lied on multiple occasions)? So the more things change, the more they stay the same. Buyout dozens of senior experienced agents and beg more money for brand new hires?

[Jaime3]

Those are some questions that only the fly on the wall, witnessing the behind closed door handshakes, can answer.

VINCENT A CEFALU, on 12 February 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Somebody please explain to me again, I just dont get it. Why again would they transfer SAC Traver to be a SAC in Denver? Doesn't Denver have a SAC? Why would they transfer Ford to Chicago? He's already been there. How is this possibly in the tax payers interest or in the interest of the Bureau? REMEMBER, THEY ONLY HAVE TO GIVE ONE YEAR SERVICE AND CAN RETIRE. THEN WE ARE GOING TO BE PAYING AGAIN FOR THESE SACS TO BE REPLACED. CONTINUITY GENTLEMAN IS THE CORNERSTONE OF A SOUND ORGANIZATION. Oh that's right, they are returning to their desired retirement locations. Can somebody tally up and do the math, I sucked at math. How many different Directors, Assistant Directors, Deputy Assistant Directors have we had in the last five years?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

ANYBODY BESIDES ME REMEMBER WHEN SACS STAYED IN PLACE FOR 4, 5, 6 YEARS OR LONGER?

VINCENT A CEFALU, on 12 February 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Somebody please explain to me again, I just dont get it. Why again would they transfer SAC Traver to be a SAC in Denver? Doesn't Denver have a SAC? Why would they transfer Ford to Chicago? He's already been there. How is this possibly in the tax payers interest or in the interest of the Bureau? REMEMBER, THEY ONLY HAVE TO GIVE ONE YEAR SERVICE AND CAN RETIRE. THEN WE ARE GOING TO BE PAYING AGAIN FOR THESE SACS TO BE REPLACED. CONTINUITY GENTLEMAN IS THE CORNERSTONE OF A SOUND ORGANIZATION. Oh that's right, they are returning to their desired retirement locations. Can somebody tally up and do the math, I sucked at math. How many different Directors, Assistant Directors, Deputy Assistant Directors have we had in the last five years?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Somebody please explain to me again, I just dont get it. Why again would they transfer SAC Traver to be a SAC in Denver? Doesn't Denver have a SAC? Why would they transfer Ford to Chicago? He's already been there. How is this possibly in the tax payers interest or in the interest of the Bureau? REMEMBER, THEY ONLY HAVE TO GIVE ONE YEAR SERVICE AND CAN RETIRE. THEN WE ARE GOING TO BE PAYING AGAIN FOR THESE SACS TO BE REPLACED. CONTINUITY GENTLEMAN IS THE CORNERSTONE OF A SOUND ORGANIZATION. Oh that's right, they are returning to their desired retirement locations. Can somebody tally up and do the math, I sucked at math. How many different Directors, Assistant Directors, Deputy Assistant Directors have we had in the last five years?

VINCENT A CEFALU, on 12 February 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

Don't forget the millions to stand up a few more academy classes after the agency just RAN OFF hundreds of our most experienced investigators. How they intend to train and allow enough experience and institutional awareness to even begin to investigate major bombing or explosive incidents is unclear. Its like its 1972 and we are reinventing the wheel decades after those before us had perfected our operations due to  the management practice of running off the senior Agents in the Bureau. SAC Steve Martin (during his reign of terror and abuse in San Francisco) once told me, he would restaff the entire field division with new hires if he had to. I asked him at the time, "how do you think that will work out for our Bureau over time? Guess we know now.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Don't forget the millions to stand up a few more academy classes after the agency just RAN OFF hundreds of our most experienced investigators. How they intend to train and allow enough experience and institutional awareness to even begin to investigate major bombing or explosive incidents is unclear. Its like its 1972 and we are reinventing the wheel decades after those before us had perfected our operations due to  the management practice of running off the senior Agents in the Bureau. SAC Steve Martin (during his reign of terror and abuse in San Francisco) once told me, he would restaff the entire field division with new hires if he had to. I asked him at the time, "how do you think that will work out for our Bureau over time? Guess we know now.

Patriot, on 10 February 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

Don't underestimate Jones' political capital. By all accounts it was he alone that got us the 39 million in supplemental funding. Of course it appears as though he will endeavour to spend it carelessly. Town hall meetings, SHOT Show junkets, an inferior weapons system with after market sights. Bringing panel members to DC when we have perfectly good video teleconferencing equuipment, endess TDY's for SES's. I remain cautiously hopefull.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

THIS MUST BE THE RUMOR MILL WORKING OVERTIME. IT HAS TO BE.THE FOLLOWING IS BUILDING STEAM. IF IT IS, IMMEDIATE OVERSIGHT AND GAO AUDIT OR FULL BLOWN OSC GROSS MISMANAGEMENT AND WASTE FRAUD AND ABUSE SHOULD BE INITIATED.

WORD IS:
Andy Traver’s feelings are hurt because he got played as a pawn for the Director job.  He told ATF to make things right he wants to be the SAC in Denver.  ATF is going to move out the current Denver SAC, who is known to ATF to have offered “lack of candor” answers to the questions of Federal investigators and make give him a spot in PGA, the DAD job recently opened when they moved out Scot Thomason.

FIRST, SINCE WHEN DO WE MAKE MULTIPLE MOVES TO APPEASE ANYBODY. MR. TRAVER, TWO WORDS. MOBILITY AGREEMENT. YOU PICKED CHICAGO NOW STAY THERE AND DO YOUR JOB.RICHARDSON, BE THANKFUL YOUR REPEATED LACK OF CANDOR AND MISMANAGEMENT DIDN'T GET YOU FIRED. YOU STAY IN THE JOB YOU ASKED FOR ALSO.NOW THOMASSON IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ANIMAL. HE SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM ANY POSITION OF MANAGEMENT SINCE HE IS THE SELF PROCLAIMED HELLS ANGEL RICO EXPERT WHO ALMOST TANKED A GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATION. AND NOT TO FORGET HE WAS COMFORTABLE (FULL WELL KNOWING BETTER), TOUTING THE COMPANY LINE THAT WE NEVER WALKED GUNS. Now, Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon, what do we the field get for just saving the Bureau and the taxpayers the unnecessary expenditure of a million dollars?


When Crenshaw was “fired” Larry Ford flew to Seattle to tell him but also told him, “Don’t move out of your office.  You’ll be back here before long.”  All show.  They caught him dirty for personal hook ups while he was the AD of Internal Affairs.
Demotion to GS 13 and administrative duties until he retires. And Ford doesn't get an office of preference move to Chicago to replace Traver either. Moving downwards and backwards does not serve the Bureau or the tax payers. Ford should be either terminated for signing false representations multiple times to Congress, and allowing Fast and Furious to continue as an Assistant Director, or demoted to GS 13. You have to stop giving the Vanessa Mclemore deal to all the bosses. Another two million is savings.



ATF recently removed Matt Horace as the SAC in New Jersey.  Same message that Crenshaw got.  Just hold tight and you’ll be back.  He had a serious sexual harassment complaint against him and the complainant resigned on the spot.

If ANY of this is true, the AGENT committee will be totally ineffective. You cant negotiate with Corruption. And there is NO intent to hold the senior leadership accountable.

[Patriot]

Don't underestimate Jones' political capital. By all accounts it was he alone that got us the 39 million in supplemental funding. Of course it appears as though he will endeavour to spend it carelessly. Town hall meetings, SHOT Show junkets, an inferior weapons system with after market sights. Bringing panel members to DC when we have perfectly good video teleconferencing equuipment, endess TDY's for SES's. I remain cautiously hopefull.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

What is MOST unnerving to ALL the ATF folks I am talking to is that Mr. Holder spouts that mechanisms are being put into place to close the huge gap and dissension between the field and ATF management. Where is that? Who is doing that? AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW IS THAT EFFORT BEING CONSTRUCTED? Will this effort include those openly critical of the Executive leadership? Does this effort include whistle-blowers, EEOC complainants, or those grieving corrupt management? OR IS IT THOSE WHO ARE FRIENDS OF THOSE WHO HAVE COMPLETELY DESTROYED OUR BUREAU? If this effort will only be manned by who Mr. Brandon and Jones pick, those who plan to be fast tracked as RACS and ASACS, we have seen what that has created for the last 10 years. TIME TO PEEL BACK THE INFECTED SCABS AND CLEAN HOUSE. It is ONLY then, that Reconstruction of this GREAT Agency can occur. Back room under-handed dealings that are NOT all inclusive and sans corrupt toxic ATF attorneys will insure the demise of ATF.

madea, on 04 February 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

Yes Vince, but you forgot a few:

Winfred 'Call Me Larry' Ford, Joe Weissman, Francis Frande, George Gillette, Rudy Garcia, Joe Gordon, Sig Celaya, Venessa McLemore, Margie Moore, John McGaw, Truscott, .....to continue as I recall the rest. I've had a stroke ya know.

Larry YOU are my favorite.


...later in the day....I've remembered more now with a little help from my friends:

Mark Potter, Earl Kleckley, I.O, Frank Riehl, Tom Stankiwiecz, Don Kincaid, Patti Gallupo, Kathy Kiernan, Virginia O'brien, Brad Buckles, David Troy, Dan Hartnett, Dan Conroy, Wayne Dixie.....

OMG I forgot Eleaner Loos.....can't believe I forgot you Eleaner. The stroke ya know.

Still later......Ok, now I've embarrassed myself. Someone actually had to remind me about Mr. Glory Hole Man..... Russell Vander Werf

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Another example of leadership we the field had been trying to expose for lack of credibility and abusive practices that they continue to ignore. Now Tax payer dollars, OUR budget dollars, and our reputation continues to be destroyed by the Matt Horace' of the world. Now he too is on his way to HQ for abusive conduct. This could/should have been handled 3 years ago or the FIRST time he was received of duties. Same will happen with Martin, John Torres, Crenshaw, Gleysteen, Loos, Boumans and a host of others who have been given a pass on their conduct.

[Winston Smith]

Will someone please explain in depth what happened to Crenshaw? So far, I have heard stories that he was investigated for allegedly misusing the Gov credit card and having an improper relationship with a subordinate.  Then he somehow avoids being prosecuted or fired and gets reinstated as a SAC.  Is there any truth to these allegations or is this just typical website drama?   If this is true, I would pay big $ for Jones or Brandon to explain why they handled the matter this way.  It is these types of managerial actions that tear apart the trust and esprit de corps of ATF.  Pay attention MR JONES, ATF needs a written code of conduct for anyone above the ASAC level, clearly explaining how they will be demoted to a street agent or fired for certain egregious behaviors including but definitely not limited to having a sexual relationship with a subordinate. How many of our leadership stooges have done this before and walked away laughing.


Other rumors on the street are that Newell will be receiving a performance bonus for 2011,and that more strange things are afoot with the SAC at the Newark Field Div.  Can anyone shed some light on these rumors?

[ProConfesso]

Doc Holiday, on 19 January 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

This just keeps getting richer and richer. They try to fire Tokos, Berger, Delgado, Cefalu and threaten to fire Dobyns, BUT they are afraid to keep Crenshaw fired for HIS unethical and illegal conduct? Wow, guess we were right, he (Crenshaw) DID pilfer the IA files while he was up there and is using the dirt he found to back them down. Pathetic. No other word describes it. Seriously? Hes still a SAC?  Nothing but the best and brightest.

strain out the gnats and swallow the camels

[Doc Holiday]

This just keeps getting richer and richer. They try to fire Tokos, Berger, Delgado, Cefalu and threaten to fire Dobyns, BUT they are afraid to keep Crenshaw fired for HIS unethical and illegal conduct? Wow, guess we were right, he (Crenshaw) DID pilfer the IA files while he was up there and is using the dirt he found to back them down. Pathetic. No other word describes it. Seriously? Hes still a SAC?  Nothing but the best and brightest.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

The slections will speak for themselves through their practices. Remember, Leadership starts at the TOP, so these selections will do what Jones and Brandon tell them to do, or they will not be SACs. Watch the entire process not just the individuals. It is extremely disturbing that cetain SES Executive staffers are still in place with their abuses and failure to report F and F, but changes are coming so lets see if they are smoke and mirrors, or substantive and long lasting.

Patriot, on 10 January 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

More developments in the SAC ranks. Change is happening. Not sure of these selections, not having worked with any of them. Anyone have any insight?

Thomas G. Atteberry, Phoenix Field Division  
Steven J. Bogdalek, Los Angeles Field Division  
Wayne L. Dixie, Charlotte Field Division  
Melvin D. King, Houston Field Division

[Patriot]

More developments in the SAC ranks. Change is happening. Not sure of these selections, not having worked with any of them. Anyone have any insight?

Thomas G. Atteberry, Phoenix Field Division  
Steven J. Bogdalek, Los Angeles Field Division  
Wayne L. Dixie, Charlotte Field Division  
Melvin D. King, Houston Field Division

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Check it out, I'm going to my crystal ball. Kelvin will cry racism. When that fails, he will remind them of all the dirt he gathered on the other bosses during the brief time he was in charge of Internal Affairs. So, ATF Counsel and the Executive staff should just cut to the chase, save the taxpayers time and money and the Bureau the embarrassment, and do what we know they are going to do anyway, (Enter Crystal ball). Kelvin will either be brought back to HQ and hidden until it dies down (remember Vanessa and Bernadette, etc., etc.) and be allowed to retire as some sort of "hero". Or, if they want to pretend they are getting tough, they will demote him to GS-13, WITH FULL SALARY RETENTION,  and he'll retire having not missed a beat for his crimes. Now that's transparency.

PetePark1811, on 21 December 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:

I hope you are wrong and Kelvin burns everyone to the ground in an attempt to save himself.  Unfortunately, I think your prediction is most likely what will happen.  So many stories could finally come to light if Kelvin starts talking.

[Patriot]

I have faith in Julie to do the right thing. Sure, offer him a deal to give up others.

[PetePark1811]

I hope you are wrong and Kelvin burns everyone to the ground in an attempt to save himself.  Unfortunately, I think your prediction is most likely what will happen.  So many stories could finally come to light if Kelvin starts talking.

leaderofthetards, on 21 December 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

No they can't be altered but that doesn't mean ATF won't give him some sort of sweet break to shut him up and he's probably already threatening to spill some dirty laundry. We'll see.

[Patriot]

Kelvin fell into the one trap he couldn't lie his way out of, yet it sounds as though he tried. Banking records cannot be altered in any way and they speak for themselves. Financial misdeeds are easy to prove and there is no gray area. So who is next?

[PetePark1811]

The rumor is Kelvin didn't pay his credit card bill due to using all his reimbursements on booze and gambling.  He had his secretary buy his plane tickets and book his hotel rooms for Govt. travel.  When exposed, he and his secretary were less than candid.  After all the stuff Kelvin has done, he gets fired for that?  Seriously?  Supposedly, his secretary is being fired too.  Hopefully the next target will be Horace.  I have heard rumors of him stealing agent cashier funds, lying about wrecking a car, stealing C.I. files to cover for other crimes, renting luxury SUVs and having his G-ride towed from the front of a stripper bar.  Haven't heard that much stuff since the old days of Ham Bob.

Thor God of Thunder, on 16 December 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:

There is some scandalous stuff out of Seattle anyone heard anything???

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

To ALL ATF AGENTS, INVESTIGATORS and CLERICAL STAFF. MERRY CHRISTMAS, AND THANK YOU FOR BEING THE BEST IN THE WORLD IN SPITE OF OUR CURRENT SHORTCOMINGS. Have a Happy Holiday and Semper Fidelis.

[Thor God of Thunder]

There is some scandalous stuff out of Seattle anyone heard anything???

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Recent developments are worthy of note. Henry Leschault has been appointed as the new Ombudsman. Henry is a decent and honorable man and a long time Agent. Although time will tell whether the credibility of that office can be restored, its a GOOD start.Another noteworthy change is the selection of Richie Marianos as the Chairman of the Professional Review Board. Former ASAC Marianos is a Cops Cop. He understands and has done the job. He will not hesitate to drop the hammer if you cheat or steal, BUT he will bring sanity to the process. Fingers crossed folks.

[Patriot]

We are, as an organization a creature of habits. Why should any of us think that anything but business as usual will occur. Congressional inquiries, adverse press, public outcry and internal suggestions all fall on the deaf ears of senior executives. I cannot envision what it would take to drive some real change. Maybe it is time to shut the lights and lock the door. I hate that I even suggested that because that would be a dis-service to all the hard working people in ATF that do the right thing every day for the people of this country. We have a rich history that reflects on that hard work. It is just a shame that ineffectual, selfish leaders have paralized us. Mr Jones your honeymoon is quickly coming to an end. With the exception of the Brandon appointment,you have done nothing to significantly fix ATF and I fear that you have handcuffed Mr. Brandon's ability to address the issues as well. Time for some quick decisive action, the very thing we ask agents and first line supervisors to do everyday.

[DavisLowrider]

Don't for a minute think that they don't know exactly what they are doing.  They gave Torres a pass.  They know exactly what his past is with the discrimination finding in San Francisco.  They know about the truthful allegations against him that are pending.  Nothing will be investigated or pursued now.  They didn't promote a guy to investigate him and prove he's dirty and then have to remove him and admit they made a mistake.  This is all calculated.  As far as Torres and Dobyns, Jones and Brandon chose to take care of JT over Jay.  No big surprise there.  After all he's SAC Omar!

VINCENT A CEFALU, on 31 October 2011 - 09:15 AM, said:

Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon,
     The standing policy is or has always been that you cannot be promoted or considered for promotion if you have pending significant IA and or EEOC findings against you. YET, SAC John Torres has or SHOULD HAVE Major investigations pending his lack of candor, perjury and or violations of 18 U.S.C. Section 1001 with regards to his testimony and actions related to MULTIPLE employee abuse complaints, most noteably the Jay Dobyns dispute. More disconcerting, is the fact that there IS a formal finding of discrimination against him. Yet you PROMOTE him to a DAD position? Is this the message you want to send? What of the alleged extortionist allegations against the production company, the release of L.E. Sensitive information? Surely these matters are under investigation at the bare minimum.
ARENT THEY? Sirs, we want to start the rebuild. With each and every new Director or change of leadership, our hopes are encouraged. BUT YOU GOTTA SHOW US SOMETHING. YOU HAVE TO SHOW GENUINE DISGUST AND DISDAIN FOR THE WAY OUR BUREAU HAS BEEN RUN. IF YOU DONT, YOU WILL LOSE THE SUPPORT OF 5000 ATF EMPLOYEES. We havent seen anything that even resembles change. At a glance, it appears, business as usual. Help us help you sirs.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon,
     The standing policy is or has always been that you cannot be promoted or considered for promotion if you have pending significant IA and or EEOC findings against you. YET, SAC John Torres has or SHOULD HAVE Major investigations pending his lack of candor, perjury and or violations of 18 U.S.C. Section 1001 with regards to his testimony and actions related to MULTIPLE employee abuse complaints, most noteably the Jay Dobyns dispute. More disconcerting, is the fact that there IS a formal finding of discrimination against him. Yet you PROMOTE him to a DAD position? Is this the message you want to send? What of the alleged extortionist allegations against the production company, the release of L.E. Sensitive information? Surely these matters are under investigation at the bare minimum.
ARENT THEY? Sirs, we want to start the rebuild. With each and every new Director or change of leadership, our hopes are encouraged. BUT YOU GOTTA SHOW US SOMETHING. YOU HAVE TO SHOW GENUINE DISGUST AND DISDAIN FOR THE WAY OUR BUREAU HAS BEEN RUN. IF YOU DONT, YOU WILL LOSE THE SUPPORT OF 5000 ATF EMPLOYEES. We havent seen anything that even resembles change. At a glance, it appears, business as usual. Help us help you sirs.

[Retired and loving it]

Iceman, on 27 October 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

Can anyone confirm that at the recent SAC conference during the IACP annual meeting, that #1, Acting Director and Deputy Director were only present for the ATF SAC conference for the early portion? SERIOUSLY???? And #2, did the Acting Director and Deputy Director then leave the remainder of the SAC conference to be run by ADFO Wilfred Ford? AGAIN SERIOUSLY?????  This is oversight, this is accountability? Not much to say to all of our SACS? The FIRST time the top two members of our executive staff have the entire CADRE of SACs in one place and they turn it over to the incompetent and unethical abusive Wilfred Ford?  The read on this is, don't know, don't want to know. Guess all is well in ATF. And what of Andy Traver? Not DD? Not ADFO? Is he still here?  Somebody explain what all this apathy to the elephant in the room is about. Hoover and Chait even being allowed at the table makes ATF Agents and Inspectors across the country SICK.

Don't forget that the Acting "Director" still has his day job (US Attoney) that requires his attention.

[Iceman]

Can anyone confirm that at the recent SAC conference during the IACP annual meeting, that #1, Acting Director and Deputy Director were only present for the ATF SAC conference for the early portion? SERIOUSLY???? And #2, did the Acting Director and Deputy Director then leave the remainder of the SAC conference to be run by ADFO Wilfred Ford? AGAIN SERIOUSLY?????  This is oversight, this is accountability? Not much to say to all of our SACS? The FIRST time the top two members of our executive staff have the entire CADRE of SACs in one place and they turn it over to the incompetent and unethical abusive Wilfred Ford?  The read on this is, don't know, don't want to know. Guess all is well in ATF. And what of Andy Traver? Not DD? Not ADFO? Is he still here?  Somebody explain what all this apathy to the elephant in the room is about. Hoover and Chait even being allowed at the table makes ATF Agents and Inspectors across the country SICK.

[ProConfesso]

res ipsa loquitur
The demise is in the wind. http://trac.syr.edu/...ports/crim/265/
ATF not to be found. http://www.nbcnewyor...-132515363.html
Again, when will atf management be held accountable?

[JL2010]

Early out makes sense only if at mandatory, or if you have a lucrative job lined up and are retirement eligible.

[apostate]

Shooter, on 04 September 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

Yes HSI will be hiring and some might think the grass is greener on the other side. I can tell you that while HSI might not have the same level of corruption that seems to exist in the upper echelon at ATF, it has many inherent problems of its own.  So think long and hard before rolling the dice and abandoning your ATF career.  Working for HSI, ICE or whatever they are calling themselves at the moment may not be all you think it is going to be.

As a govt employee and military vet with close to 30 years service I am more that aware that every government agency has its own problems. The fact of the mater is that there is a really strong possibility that many ATF agents will be losing their jobs in the near future. As a LEO it is always wise to have a back-up plan. As far as I know ICE ( HSI) is the only fed LEO agency that will be hiring and will be doing so granting lateral transfers to experienced agents.. I would be very concerned now as an ATF agent  supporting my family in the future.Take a look at all of the ongoing street  agent terminations. This is only the beginning...  There is no guarantee of a career future in ATF,  at least not for street agents. Mgt will take care of their own as they did after Waco and will continue doing today like in F&F.  Simply put better to have a job  than to be unemployed cheerleader for ATF in my humble opinion.

Just something to consider and I may be wrong

And word is a lot is going on  behind the scenes in ATF HQ that the field is not aware of.

[Shooter]

Yes HSI will be hiring and some might think the grass is greener on the other side. I can tell you that while HSI might not have the same level of corruption that seems to exist in the upper echelon at ATF, it has many inherent problems of its own.  So think long and hard before rolling the dice and abandoning your ATF career.  Working for HSI, ICE or whatever they are calling themselves at the moment may not be all you think it is going to be.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

To ALL of my ATF, law enforcement and military brothers and sisters, HAVE AN OUTSTANDING LABOR DAY. To those of you who are working this Holiday, EXTRA caution and be safe. Thank you CLEANUPATF and specifically the WEBMASTER for doing what you do. FINALLY, Remember why we are here. We all want ATF to come out the other side better and stronger. If you find yourself either through self consciousness or apathy sitting down during the National Anthem or not placing your hand over your heart, catch yourself, nudge the guy next to you and remember, this is how we in the civilian world show respect and honor to those who have sacrificed for the country. Remember, the kids of America watch what WE do. Happy Labor day.

[retired1811]

Speaking of not eating your own as a suggestion someone may want to start a topic on which agencies are hiring, where are they hiring and contact points for those agencies. The time has come to help each other out in finding a place to land.

[Retired and loving it]

Apostate, concerning the order to fire field personnal for any reason, sadly in ATF, it has become easier to fire than to RIF.  Also, for anyone approaching retirement age, firing negates any chance of having to pay a $25k early out.

[apostate]

vanderplow, on 03 September 2011 - 03:38 AM, said:

Well, since this will not be a constructive conversation I will make this my last.  First, I'm sorry my windows were broken out by a neighbor while I slept and stole my gear.  That was my fault.  You are wrong, I did not say all is well, I just said we are functioning.  The only way we can do better is highlight the work that is done.  All is not well, we have a lot of hard work to do.  I do come to work prepared as a law enforcement officer.  When all is said and done, if something happens we are Agents first.  Lastly, my name is on the banner - is yours?

I commend you for trying, but the current state of ATF management is abysmal.( No big secret of course)  The perception of the ATF street agent and American public is that ATF management is comprised mostly of criminals, serial liars, cowards,  perverts, incompetents willing to do anything, including committing very serious crimes, cover-ups to keep and increase their power. It appears human life holds no value for them.  The field employees have ZERO faith in ATF HQ and do not believe any of the propaganda. Agents in the field are being told there will be NO money next year to do their job of fighting the worst of the worst most dangerous criminals, thugs, street gangs, organized crime in America. While word is many  in HQ, including the felonious F&F crew, are getting big bonuses this year. Can you confirm this? There is supposedly money for secret ATF academy classes for special people with radically lowered standards scheduled for 2012 even though ATF mgt will be laying -off ( firing) hundreds of honest, hard-working agents, IOI's, support staff.

Word is SAC's, ASAC's received orders from HQ to fire agents for any minor reason.  Any truth to this?

HSI ( ICE) will be hiring next year and will be accepting laterals. Younger agents should seriously consider this. Much more professional organization. You can go work for organization you can be proud of, not ashamed

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Ok fellas, lets stop making this personal and stop eating our own. That is a trait we see from within management, and quite frankly what the corrupt managers LOVE to see. Paul, I do have to admit you don't seem to be watching all that is going on. We are trying to dump 400 ATF Special Agents by the end of the year because our abysmal management has let our salary appropriations get to the 80% mark, NOT DUE TO THE ECONOMY. The unethical practices going on nationwide IS the issue. You've obviously read the postings here. You're well read. You see the failures in almost every Directorate. I know you to genuinely care, but highlighting the GREAT work of those who are in fact doing it, will take care of itself. But isn't cheer leading for those great cases while the pirates are stealing the silverware out the back door kind of like painting a turd? Isn't it still a turd? Now, Those on the fifth floor are terminating outstanding Agents across the country for minor or trivial errors like you referenced in your own situation. (I am confident based on the terminations recently proposed on our "brothers and sisters", that your own incident would have met with a termination proposal.) How is that EVER in the Bureaus best interest? Our termination proposals of the last 2 yrs exceed those of the last 20 years. YOU DON'T FIRE AGENTS to protect your SES package or cover your gross mismanagement. The agency IS circling the toilet and if you don't see that, it scares me that you are controlling the money because you COULD be effective in policy making on some level. We have the self promoting SES crew that somehow thinks its appropriate to have every SAC in the country paid at SES levels. Just in SF, (where you came from), in 25 years we added ONE 3 man office, no geographic territory, no MORE agents and in fact less personnel, yet we have not one but 2 SES candidate ASACs, and a SAC. Lets try to stay focused people, watch Mr. Holders and Mr. Jones actions and act a little more like ATF Special Agents. WE DON'T EAT OUR OWN.

microscope, on 03 September 2011 - 02:03 AM, said:

Hey Vanderplow, Shut Up!  Don't you have a couple thousand rounds of government ammo and ballistic vests to go find?  Next time lock your car.  Hold comments on ATF's budget for the professionals?  Who?  You?  WE HAVE NO MONEY YOU IDIOT and your professionals got us here!  Don't try to inspire agents to put "wins on the board" either.  Go away.  You're not George Patton or Vince Lombardi.  Most of us were putting up wins when you were still the head french fryer at Burger King.  Chain of command?  More like the chain of ineptness.  Look you up?  Why?  So you can spit back the ATF rhetoric of "all is well".  Save that for B. Todd.  We don't want to hear it from you.  Better yet, I ask that everyone actually call you and let you explain to each of us individually 2500 times how you and your "professionals who work on this everyday" are going to get this right.  PS: Do you still wear every piece of tactical gear ever issued on your tac belt while you count beans in the accounting office for ATF?  The OC spray has been discontinued.  You can take that off.

[vanderplow]

Well, since this will not be a constructive conversation I will make this my last.  First, I'm sorry my windows were broken out by a neighbor while I slept and stole my gear.  That was my fault.  You are wrong, I did not say all is well, I just said we are functioning.  The only way we can do better is highlight the work that is done.  All is not well, we have a lot of hard work to do.  I do come to work prepared as a law enforcement officer.  When all is said and done, if something happens we are Agents first.  Lastly, my name is on the banner - is yours?

[microscope]

Hey Vanderplow, Shut Up!  Don't you have a couple thousand rounds of government ammo and ballistic vests to go find?  Next time lock your car.  Hold comments on ATF's budget for the professionals?  Who?  You?  WE HAVE NO MONEY YOU IDIOT and your professionals got us here!  Don't try to inspire agents to put "wins on the board" either.  Go away.  You're not George Patton or Vince Lombardi.  Most of us were putting up wins when you were still the head french fryer at Burger King.  Chain of command?  More like the chain of ineptness.  Look you up?  Why?  So you can spit back the ATF rhetoric of "all is well".  Save that for B. Todd.  We don't want to hear it from you.  Better yet, I ask that everyone actually call you and let you explain to each of us individually 2500 times how you and your "professionals who work on this everyday" are going to get this right.  PS: Do you still wear every piece of tactical gear ever issued on your tac belt while you count beans in the accounting office for ATF?  The OC spray has been discontinued.  You can take that off.

vanderplow, on 02 September 2011 - 05:46 PM, said:

Ok, I can't let this go....nylawman - I hope your investigative reports are not as erroneous as your posts.  Unless I know you from the fourth floor (Financial Management Division), please hold your commentary on ATF's budget situation to the professionals who deal with this everyday.  My advice to everyone regarding the budget: keep working and putting wins on the board. We are not "going down hill".  Last time I checked, with the approval of the chain of command, we in Financial Management, Acquisitions, Accounting, Budget Execution and Formulation, et al have facilitated financing for numerous complex investigations, equipment and services to keep the Agency moving.  I can't recall the last time I had to say no to a righteous request.  My offer still stands, if any ATF employee has any questions on the budget and/or the funding philosophy  please look me up in Outlook and give me a call.  I ask that everyone stay safe, work hard and help your brother and sister Agents and Investigators.  

[vanderplow]

Ok, I can't let this go....nylawman - I hope your investigative reports are not as erroneous as your posts.  Unless I know you from the fourth floor (Financial Management Division), please hold your commentary on ATF's budget situation to the professionals who deal with this everyday.  My advice to everyone regarding the budget: keep working and putting wins on the board. We are not "going down hill".  Last time I checked, with the approval of the chain of command, we in Financial Management, Acquisitions, Accounting, Budget Execution and Formulation, et al have facilitated financing for numerous complex investigations, equipment and services to keep the Agency moving.  I can't recall the last time I had to say no to a righteous request.  My offer still stands, if any ATF employee has any questions on the budget and/or the funding philosophy  please look me up in Outlook and give me a call.  I ask that everyone stay safe, work hard and help your brother and sister Agents and Investigators.  

[nylawman]

rumor has it that ATF is going to Homeland investigations ...ATF already put out bureau wide of the early out getting 25,000 . i don't think any 1811 is going to take it...the us attorney in AZ  was let go...thats what we heard...the acting director is already starting his town hall speeches ...its going to get bad...we have no money...the agency is going down hill..its sad...

[spinax489]

Here's the direct link to Vince's interview on Democracy Now...

http://www.democracy..._gun_sting_fast