The Shadow

Excellent post FUBAR, however I would like to point out to you that Mr. Jones is not the most arrogant director this agency has had, nor is he the biggest fool. That distinction lays with John Magaw. But can you see the similarity? Mcgaw showed up after Waco in his magic cape and now B Toad shows up after F&F. Let’s at least give B Toad kudos for not requiring his own elevator. Magaw and his entourage did. B Toad is just the most recent arrogant fool, not the biggest.

For those outside of ATF, believe it or not there are actually agents employed by ATF that have been tasked to investigate really bad people. As a result of their investigations of those really bad people they have placed themselves and their families in harm’s way. ATF has actually conducted investigations and determined that those agents and their families were in danger as a result of the performance of their duties and made recommendations as to the security measures to be taken to reduce the threat levels. Many, many times ATF SAC’s and above have ignored those recommended security measures thereby leaving those agents and their families in harm’s way. I know it is hard to believe. But take solace in the fact that ATF provides a security detail to their own part time Director/part time U.S. Attorney before receiving any information that any bad guys even care who he is. Perhaps some Senators and Congressmen should take note of this and ask why they are not afforded their own personal security teams. Surely there are many, many more people that know who their elected representatives are than know who the latest is in a long line of temporary ATF Director’s. I know the current temporary Director says not to look at the past but let’s do that. When was the last attempted/actual assault on the Director of any U.S. Federal law enforcement agency? When was the last attempted/actual assault on an employee of a U.S. Federal law enforcement agency? When was the last attempted/actual assault on a U.S. representative to the House or Senate? If a position with a past safety record such as that of the temporary Director of ATF has to have a security team, who protects those that actually have a proven history of attempted/actual assault? And why does ATF ignore credible threats against their agents? Do they think ATF agents are super hero’s not requiring any assistance, or is it part of a larger issue of non-concern when it comes to murder and mayhem of anyone not within the upper Untouchable ranks of ATF?

The members of this forum needed to be aware that Dobyns' conduct is unethical and in direct conflict with the values he claims to stand for and hold others accountable for.

Are there different rules for different people? A double standard?
Do I have to go along to get along on this forum as well?

In an effort to adhere to the mission of this site, I'm calling on the webmaster not to delete this thread. Doing so will effectively be deleting the credibility of this site to expose all sides.

“In an effort to adhere to the mission of this site, I'm calling on the webmaster not to delete this thread. Doing so will effectively be deleting the credibility of this site to expose all sides”.

Really? You actually see the actions by active ATF upper management as anywhere near the same level as your accusations against Dobyns? If so there are absolutely no amount of words, stated facts or mere accusations that anyone could post that would make any sense to you. The actions you allege against Dobyns have no effect on the way ATF functions. Dobyns does not make policy or personnel decisions. He does not dictate the way criminal cases are investigated or ignored. He does not enforce the manner in which resources are allocated or denied. He does not dictate how allegations of illegal actions, violation of ATF policy, or disregard of the Orders are examined or overlooked by ATF. He is not an ATF manager. Depending on who is speaking will determine the amount of effect they state his life in ATF has or will have on the future of the agency as it stands today. But one thing is for sure, this site allows all to state their views as is evident by them allowing you to post here. So let’s get back to the exposing of all sides. Just look at the results what a leading Federal law enforcement agency tasked with conducting investigations have accomplished. How many street agents are awaiting termination, have already been terminated, or left in disgust after mere accusations of minor violations of ATF policy? Now how managers have had any action taken against them for serious violations of the law or ATF policy? Misuse of an ATF credit card will result in days off or termination for agents but not for SAC’s. Misinterpreted sexual talk will result in termination of days off for agents but actually having sexual relations with subordinates will result in action against ATF management. Misuse of ATF vehicles will result in termination or days off for agents but nothing happens to ATF managers for the same actions. Putting the public in eminent danger will get an agent fired or result in days off, but will get an ATF manager a transfer to HQ with no loss of pay. Permitting the exportation firearms to arm insurgents in a foreign nation with the expectation that they will be recovered at crime scenes, would result in an agent or U.S. citizen being extradited. But no loss of pay or rank results to those that manage such an operation in ATF.

But let’s compare the allegations of Dobyns and some Hollywood producers or others in the world of make believe to the real life death and destruction ATF finances. Boy am I upset with Dobyns. Thanks RobbG for opening my eyes to the mission of this site and to making for a safer America with that hard hitting expose. How many innocents were killed, lives were saved, and criminal charges filed by your investigation of the off duty conduct of a street agent? How many innocents were killed, lives were lost, and criminal charges not filed due to inept ATF managers allowed to spend the public’s money for their own personal gratification or vendettas?

Shadow, Madea wants to make it clear to everyone, including HQ, that you are NOT claiming that Kelvin did all of the things you just mentioned. Believe it or not folks, there’s actually a few he may not have done. Some were done by his buddies.

Ok, Madea is still pondering these latest developments. Was an investigation conducted into the statements made by Jay in this memo? It would seem that a sitting U.S. Attorney (if you’ve forgotten, that would be you Todd) would make a determination as to whether or not the statements Jay made were true. Did I.A. or the OIG investigate whether or not Torres perjured himself and committed acts of corruption? Are you telling me that U.S. Attorney Jones would sanction a suspension and once again VIOLATE an employee’s due process rights? Oh tell me it’s not so. Considering how many requests I have personally made asking for investigations on upper management, Madea just can not believe this could possibly be the case. Now, I know Julie Torres did not investigate whether or not John Torres committed perjury. After all they’re on the new Diversity Panel together. And how uncomfortable would that be?

Thanks for the correction Madea. I had not intended to say that he did all of the things listed. Most of those acts were committed by others in ATF management. Unfortunately, there are more than enough bad actors running the show and to attribute the misdeeds to only one would not be accurate.

The message HQ is sending to the field is loud and clear, cover-up and lie for management, at worst, you just get a letter. Tell the truth and get hammered. And isn’t Jay reporting misconduct in this memo? Maybe we have this all wrong. Instead of expecting management to apply the Crenshaw Standard to us, maybe we should all follow Crenshaw’s lead and just play it safe by lying and not reporting misconduct. I wonder if we get extra points if we have sex with our secretary? Honestly, I just wish someone in HQ would clarify the rules to this nasty game we find ourselves forced to play.

AT one time there was guidance in ATF Order 2130.1 – Conduct and Accountability. 2. RESPONSIBILITIES. Managers and supervisors are expected to serve as role models for all Bureau employees and, by their actions, set standards for appropriate behavior. Employees are required to know the standards and rules of conduct and to seek clarification from their supervisors when doubt exists.

Based on the history of unpunished deeds by ATF managers and supervisors, acceptable role model behavior apparently: includes using the government credit card for personal gain, personal relationships with subordinate females within your immediate chain of command, use of government vehicles to stimulate the economy at strip clubs, smuggling firearms on aircraft for professional athletes, use of ATF personnel as free bodyguards for personal friends, frequent memory losses of on duty incidents without lack of candor charges, self authoring magazine articles that divulged ATF covert recording equipment, alerting the media to ATF covert investigative training/techniques, destroying public safety equipment for personal gain, sleeping on duty, etc., etc., etc...

It appears as though they are the most recent recipients of the ATF welfare program. In addition to finding something for them to do to earn their pay, they should be removed from the SES pay system and lose all the perks that are attached.

They are still GS 1811 employees so treat them exactly the same as others with the title of Special Agent. Stop treating them as "Special" and treat them the way ATF treats the "Agents". Send them into exile at their residence sans their guns, badges, g-rides, and tell them to check in daily while monitoring their ATF computers. Fair and equatable treatment in the workplace. No more Untouchables in the management ranks. No more promotions, dubious laterals, or paid moves while in the shadow of illegal, immoral or unethical behavior.