If we stay FACT based, this is a very important thread we can build on. It is important to show how SIMILARLY situated people were treated differently. They don't have to be EXACTLY situated just similarly. For example, an Agent misuses his government vehicle in some manner and receives 30 day suspension. A SAC, has his car with his gun towed away from a strip club, lies to police and IA and he remains a SAC. These are things that the field can raise in court and administrative actions. Another example, Agent testifies to and supported by other impartial Agents as to perjury or false statements in pursuit of a wiretap to advance a personal vendetta. His termination is proposed, even though EVERY word was corroborated. An ASAC LIES to the OIG, (later characterized as lack of candor and Ronnie Carter immediately adds a new charge to our disciplinary matrix) which according to Larry Nickles and SFFD Attorney Baca is still LYING. This ASAC does this so many times that the OIG has to conduct extra followup interviews to get to the truth. This ASAC, promoted to the Chairman of the professional review board to sit in judgement of field Agents. Then promoted to SAC. See why this is important?

Does Matt Horace have pictures of someone important raping a goat???? I can't figure out how he gets away with all this stuff. It is mind boggling. How about renting a Cadillac Escalade on the govt. dime to drive to Vail. What is a couple of thousand dollars compared to all the other stuff he has gotten away with. My understanding is DOJ OIG doesn't even get reports from ATF on their high ranking people committing violations. Anything involving a GS-15 or above must be reported to DOJ OIG. It takes someone going directly to DOJ OIG to get the ball rolling.

Well Vince, fabricated lack of candor is much worse than actual crimes....right?

This is what I was hoping for. Documenting how some people seem to get away with murder, while others are targeted for perceived misdeeds.

I notice you didn't bother yourself with responding to my question

again, the sheriff is on camera - i'm starting to wonder if you've been drinking the kool aid


something else that was in the congressional hearings (and i'm sorry, but i bothered to record them live) - there were 4 UC that rented a house across from the branch davidian property - one of those agents wrote in his report, that after having visited and used the davidian range a number of times (as did the Texas state police on an unannounced basis), he wrote he didn't observe any criminal activity. He was recalled to washington for pyschological evaluation- and i can see it, not pulling the company line would be crazy

does it say something that TX state police officers would feel comfortable enough to stop in and use the davidian range, out of convenience, unannounced ? - that doesn't exactly shout "criminal activity hotbed" to me,

what also came out in the hearings, ATF agents were at Ft Hood, training for the assault, six months in advance of the actual assault, using a mock up of the davidian property, and at that training, bragging to their army spec forces trainers how "this was going to be big time, tv cameras, lights, movies..." - but after all, that's only congressional hearing testimony that was unrefuted by ATF.

after all the postings on this forum about how totally & fundamentally corrupt ATF HQ is, you want to believe and pump the "company line"?
you might get your facts from somewhere other than the company water cooler - but i'm done with this conversation, i hear the wife unit calling

No. THe sheriff didn't say that. Good try though. He was supportive of ATF throughout. They didn't go out to the range and shoot with the Davidians, due to the fact that these people were nuts. Did you forget that the county tried Koresh for attempted murder?? ATF made enough mistakes that day without you making up stuff - (actually quote from one of the defense attorneys that represented the Davidians after watching the conspiracy movies). Why don't you go back to working on the Oklahoma City and 9/11 conspiracies.

atftruthteller, out of respect to old school's request, i'll leave my response to this - go back and view the cspan tapes on the congressional hearings. it came out there

plus one question re a statement the sheriff of waco made on camera - "if they (ATF) wanted Koresh, hell they could have asked me to call him in - i've called him into my office two times before and he came in, no problem. Or they could have picked him up while he was jogging - everyone knew he jogged every morning at 6:00 AM."

why didn't they???

Seriously, check your information. This is the crap that comes out of people who listen to crazy people. How about this. The sheriff refused to send his people out there anymore because every time they went out, they were surrounded by cult members armed with assault weapons. He didn't go jogging every morning You hear this stuff from anti-government nuts and believe it. You wonder where people like McVeigh come from? From people like you repeating inaccurate crap. Just because someone said it on CSPAN, doesn't mean it happened. Those of us in the undercover house know the truth.

Truth, if you are referring to Ralph's statement that Waco (at least the timing of the raid) was in part because ATF wanted to make a big media splash, I can tell you that there is a lot of merit to that statement. About 20 of us went on "60 Minutes". The "60 Minutes" producers were very open about intentionally airing the show right before ATF was to go before congress for it's yearly, 'look how great we are and we need lots more money' pilgrimage. Waco was the first time in ATF's history that a reporter was given the heads up to be present at a major raid. ATF knew the "60 minutes" show was going to air just before it's yearly 'budget beg'.

It has always made sense to me that the reason ATF charged into the compound even though the UC agent told them "they know we're coming", was because no one wanted to tell Higgins and Hartnet, "hey, we had to call of the big raid - just not a good time". The raid needed to be done while the reporter was there and certainly before ATF was due to go before congress. ATF had never had the sort of national media exposure that they knew they were about to get when that show aired. Mike Wallace was chasing Higgins down the hallway and Higgins was looking like the sleazy, scurrying rat that he was. Both Hartnet and Higgins were FURIOUS that we went to "60 Minutes", and I think they had hopes that the WACO raid would show them in a much better light. Then they could write us all off as "disgruntled employees" just trying to sling mud at a wonderful agency. Any of this sounding familiar?

Higgins' and Hartnet's anger over "60 Minutes" (both the original show and the 'post Waco' follow-up show) was so rabid that they started a campaign of retaliation against me that was over-the-top, even by ATF standards. This last campaign to 'get even' eventually resulted in a very large check paid to me by the poor taxpayers.

I'm wondering why you feel that Ralph is way off base here.

Sandy,
Do you remember what happened two days before the Waco raid?? The 1st World Trade Center bombing. It was made clear that no one was even going to cover the story nationally to the on scene commanders. The plan was originally scheduled to go two months earlier. I much more logically explanation was that the creature was alive and after spending all that money, the raid was going forward. You never hear about the background details. Having portable toilets and showers being brought out to the compound for the cult members. Meals scheduled for days. All these were part of a plan. I seriously doubt HRT members were complaining about ATF. They were much more angry at their own people, primarily the hostage negotiators and the FBI on scene commander. Don't believe everything you hear second hand and never believe everything you hear from the media. I don't remember hearing anything from the media about $30,000,000 settlement they paid out to the ATF agents wounded and killed. The real sad part is the cult members never realized who they should really be suing.

ATFTRUTHTELLER - no argument with anything else you said, but that is the 2nd time you've made that last stmt, expressing concern for the 2nd amendment under any other agency.

i am industry, not ATF but i have to wonder what filtered glasses you're looking thru when you make that stmt. I've posted some pretty outrageous prosecutions (where ATF mgmt committed perjury to convict a dealer). That was not an anomaly - that is the norm - i've got 30 or so more like it. I only collected them and other evidence in case i ever find myself sideways with ATF. But it's not just there - FTB does 180 degree reversals on rulings, often without public notification, putting folks into felony violation status in the blink of an eye. Hell, i was told by that reptilean Theresa Ficaretta, when she was CCO, that a recent ruling reversal, even though the previous ruling had been issued by Ed Owen ( previous chief FTB, who was an arrogant, abrasive asshole, but at least was consistent and honest), that even though my customers had purchased and registered their SBRs under that ruling letter issued to my firm on the very device in question, that those customers were RETROACTIVELY in felony violation, and not due an exemption, even though ATF NFA was complicent in those "felony violations" for having accepted the SBR registrations. But the main point, the ruling reversals on rulings long established, are always further restricting on firearm owners rights - and almost always you have to do mental gymnastics of olympic caliber to keep up with their jumping from ATF english to webster english definitions. They will stretch either to restrict firearms as much as possible, with absolutely no shame or embarrassment on their part.

Other dealers were prosecuted, causing them to spend thousands of dollars defending themselves, because they had accepted the abbreviation "Bltmre" for "Baltimore" on 4473s, even though there's not enough room in the frigging box to write the entire city name. I could go on ad nauseum.

and those are even minor compared to a number of the ones i could detail.


PLEASE TELL ME how it could be worse??? At least if the FBI were enforcing the regs, i could expect some integrity & professionalism in the reg enforcement, which is TOTALLY LACKING with the current ATF mgmt regime.

hell - do a google on len savage, historic arms llc and see the threads that turn up with what ATF has done in terms of rulings on him.

the entire mgmt team at ATF HQ, with few exceptions, as far as I'm concerned, should be frogged marched out the front doors of 99 NY Ave, with Chief reptilean Ficaretta being the first to face the news cameras

don't mean to be harsh, but i haven't seen zilch from ATF HQ in the way of honesty, much less in the way of any interest in safeguarding 2nd amendment rights. You'd have an easier time telling me Hitler was interested in safeguarding the Jews. And no, i'm not a big fan of the NRA


another example, in case anyone from congress is reading this, gunsmiths in TX that "tuned" pistols for the cowboy competitions (now there's a hotbed of criminal activity), were audited and told that because they had swapped barrels on ruger vasquero pistols for customers, installing an octogan barrel, and in doing so they had "manufactured" a new firearm, and that the FET (iirc 10% of market value) was due. After being harangued by ATF with threats of charges for "manufacturing" without the proper 07 FFL (and untold legal defense costs), one of them agreed to a plea bargain - if he would admit to "mfgring" new firearms, there would be no felony violation charges, but he'd have to pay the FET on future such modifications. He agreed. ATF then charged him $28,000 for the FET that was supposedly due on the "newly" manufactured firearms, with fines. EVEN THOUGH RUGER HAD ALREADY PAID THE FET ON THOSE FIREARMS. Interestingly, by ATF's logic in that persecution, if someone installs a barrel on a pumpkin, they've mfgr'd a firearm.

What do you think action like that does, but drive people (mfgrs, innovators, gunsmiths) out of the market. Hell - look at what ATF did to convict that Olsfen guy up in Utah or Idaho over a mis-firing colt - they had to test twice to get it to fire full auto with soft primer ammo, and then it would only do it once, a double fire. Bam - a convicted felon - an accountant that is an officer in the national guard (another flaming indicator of criminal background). What do you think that does to a lot of law abiding citizens but discourage them from owning firearms!!

i could tell you worse stories, but...think WACO - how many folks died over false allegations cause ATF wanted some limelight for the appropriation hearings coming up in congress?.

I don't think you are getting the point. ATF has a strong history of rolling over and pissing it's self when confronted. The FBI won't tolerate being pushed around. That is why back in 1985 the NRA successfully got the ATF disbanded until it became clear that the FBI was taking over the gun laws. The NRA doesn't want ATF disbanded for a reason. The FBI is a powerful, powerful creature. The current regs for dealing with FFLs are a joke. Do you really believe that the FBI would allow them to stay that way.

Also, you are misinformed. Your assumptions about Waco probably go well with your view about the moon landings.

So, what did Vanessa do? She evidently has some sort of government consulting company now. I'm curious to know specifically what she did.

Look in "Unpunished Misdeeds." Her violations are detailed in a DOJ OIJ report in which they recommended she be criminally prosecuted. The point I think some of us are trying to make here is that Vince has been fired for "alleged" lack of candor. Some high ranking people in ATF have been found to commit criminal acts and weren't fired, but were actually promoted. Vince completely denies all these allegations and the violation of "Lack of Candor" is sketchy at best. So, if Vince was actually in upper management, would he have been promoted instead of being fired. Joe Gordon was a white male and got away with tons of stuff, but he was in management. They finally forced him to retire. Funny thing about Joe was that he was extremely competent. It was just he had a split personality that was extremely kind, then extremely cruel. He disliked minorities and made horrible comments when they left the room. I too have had the benefit of working with outstanding agents throughout my career. Every black agent and TFO that I have worked with was a better agent than me. Nothing personal, but just the reality. We have great people, but we also curse ourselves by promoting the idiots away from the street agents so we don't have to deal with them. It is a recipe for disaster. We don't force people into management. We allow our best people to stay on the street where they can do the most good, putting violent criminals in jail. Not all upper managers are problems. We have a lot of good people up there.

Everything I am hearing says it won't matter soon. ATF is going to be forced into being split. The NRA is going to get their worse nightmare. The gun laws will be enforced by the FBI. I will be praying for the 2nd amendment.

Of course, you can't forget Matt Horace. Stealing A/C funds as a first level supervisor. Gets days off for lying to I/A. Unreported damage to a GOV as a ASAC, then lies to I/A. Tries to pull attention away from this incident by stealing CI files. DOO and TOO set up secret camera in file room catching Matt in the act. SAC Crenshaw finds out and throw I/A out of division and destroys tapes. Matt is sent off to HQ and told his career is over, then gets promoted to SAC of New Jersey. Crenshaw becomes head of I/A, then gets caught misusing govt. travel. Gets to come back to Seattle as SAC. This really happened. Again, how do you fire Vince for alleged "lack of candor", when you promote people that are given days off for lying to I/A and more.....

I forgot the best part. The DOO and TOO got days off from setting up a camera in the file room, even thought they had received permission from legal, I/A and HQ. WOW! How do these guys sleep at night.

This information was provided to us this evening through an anonymous source:

"On good authority from a trusted source: Two or three years ago, there was a terribly corrupt ATF Agent Supervisor who was charged in an EEO case that went all the way to federal court. As part of the ensuing settlement, the manager was not to be promoted again. So, what did ATF HQ do? They allowed the supervisor to quit ATF as a GS-14 Agent Supervisor. Twenty-four hours later, they hired him back as a GS-15 Agent Supervisor (in order to bypass the mandatory EEOC settlement provisions). Since he was (re)hired as a GS-15, he "technically" was not "promoted". Clever, eh?

He was then promptly promoted to ASAC."

Of course, you can't forget Matt Horace. Stealing A/C funds as a first level supervisor. Gets days off for lying to I/A. Unreported damage to a GOV as a ASAC, then lies to I/A. Tries to pull attention away from this incident by stealing CI files. DOO and TOO set up secret camera in file room catching Matt in the act. SAC Crenshaw finds out and throw I/A out of division and destroys tapes. Matt is sent off to HQ and told his career is over, then gets promoted to SAC of New Jersey. Crenshaw becomes head of I/A, then gets caught misusing govt. travel. Gets to come back to Seattle as SAC. This really happened. Again, how do you fire Vince for alleged "lack of candor", when you promote people that are given days off for lying to I/A and more.....

ATFTRUTHTELLER,

SA Dodson is an honorable man in my book. He displayed a lot of courage over the past few months.

Did you read my whole post??????

onesparkz makes a great point for you. If ATF tolerates a lot then they have to tolerate a little. That is not to say that you are guilty, I'm sure you are not. Life as a whistleblower at ATF is terrible. If they let Torres off then they have to restore your job, regardless of facts or circumstances. My best wishes to you and Jay. If they can do this to you guys then everyone knows they can and will do it to us. Holder and Melson need to go away at best and preferabbly to prison. They would make interesting cellies.

Excellent point. If Vanessa can get promoted after getting caught lying, continue lying and get caught. Have DOJ IG request she be prosecuted criminally, then let her retire as a Special Assistant to the Director - how do you justify firing someone for "Lack of Candor." If you implement a zero tolerance policy, then you must go to your upper management and address those individuals that have been promoted and have been found to have lied directly to Internal Affairs in the past. Until then, the policy is something used only for retaliation. Hold everyone to the same standard. Wow! It is sad that this is a novel concept.

Another possibility. I'm guessing taxpayer is sorry she asked.

Where is this OIG report? The only thing I've read was an affidavit of an agent saying she lied about that protective detail and that she tried to get the agent to lie about it also.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/27431252/OIG-Report-in-Re-Vanessa-McLemore-1

I honestly do not know but here are a few theories:

1. Vanessa is a black female and b/c ATF has such a long history of racial and sexual discrimination, maybe her bosses were afraid to do anything to her for fear of lawsuits. Although I don't know where these bosses were when I needed them.

2. Because of ATF's long history of discrimination, there was a black class action against the agency. Many blacks were promoted after this lawsuit and maybe she had newly placed higher-ups protecting her.

3. She could have had dirt on higher ups and she was protected b/c someone didn't want her outing them. That happens A LOT at ATF.

4. She could be completely innocent and is being wrongly accused of some pretty horrible things, and if this is the case I hope she sets the record straight.

Whatever the reason she seems to have gotten so many passes, I find in particularly upsetting when a minority gets into a position of power and then becomes as bad or worse than the good old boys. If Vanessa truly did have a chip on her shoulder against white agents, I find that disgusting, she should have known better. I have friends who were part of the black class action lawsuit that I consider to be good honorable men/women, however, I also know several who were merely black bigots, which I personally find more reprehensible than your run-of-the-mill white bigot. As minorities, we can't claim ignorance. We know what it's like to have your life torn apart because someone doesn't like the color of your skin or your lack of certain body parts, or sometimes when someone likes your body parts too much. I'm thinking of you here Manny.

Read the DOJ OIG report and it is clear that for years Vanessa lied to Internal Affairs and was still promoted. Why - it was easier to promote her away than deal with her indiscretions. ATF has a history of this. We do not mandate the best qualified go into management. A blessing to the good hard working street agents and a curse down the road when these idiots becomes big bosses.

There are a couple of people in ATF that have pulled so much crazy stuff we could set up a topic on each of them.
1. Matt Horace
2. Dick Chase
3. Vanessa McLemore
4. Kelvin Crenshaw
5. John Torres
6. Joe Gordon
7. Larry Ford

This statement is accurate and truthful but I believe your numbers are conservative. NIBIN was designed to be an investigative tool that developed and supported leads for investigators on the federal, state and local levels. The techniques and technology are incredible but the program has been so poorly managed and robbed from over the past few years that it is yet another example of how management incompetence can ruin a very good thing.

Dobyns is still a NIBIN Regional Coordinator. My suggestion is he tells congress about this good program being horribly mismanaged by ATF. At a time when the US Govt is trying to save money, ATF wastes millions that could be used to improve the program and agency. AD Holgate should be held personally responsible. I would love to see HQ explain how they have managed this program to congress.

I had a feeling this would be a popular thread.

I've been hearing 'outrageous Vanessa stories' for over 20 years now. Maybe someone could just post a bullet list of her career highlights, and if it gets too lengthy, we can start a separate thread? I hardly think it's fair to leave her out just because no one wants to tackle such a big job. Come on folks, let's not get lazy.

Ditto on Eleanor.

Also, would someone please verify for me that Eleanor was indeed appointed to "Ethics Attorney". I read that somewhere, but I'm guessing that the poster was just being sarcastic. But then again, we are talking about Medusa, so anything is possible.

I don't want to post slander or gossip. I think we can take a little time and post accurate, verified information. I was stunned to see how much information from the OIG report was available on Vanessa. This only involved the time she was the SAC of Atlanta. I still remember we she put out a email while the SAC of Houston stating she was tired of her supervisor in Houston looking "like corporate white america." Problem was, there was only one white male in management for the entire Houston division. She stopped a qualified candidate from getting the job and he sued successfully for her racism. Her punishment was a transfer. I have no idea what Vince supposedly has done, real or fiction, in his career to piss off HQ so badly. One thing is clear, there is no way he has done as much crap as Vanessa was found to have done and she still got promoted and was allowed to retire with honor.

http://www.greatfoundationinc.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15%3Avanessa-mclemore&catid=2&Itemid=2
How much you want to bet she is getting tax payer dollars through her LLC? That would be worth knowing.

http://www.scribd.co...essa-McLemore-1

Holy Crap! She lied to OIG several times during her career and wasn't prosecuted, much less promoted. Seriously! I had no idea until I just read the OIG report the crap she pulled and lied about. Retired with full benefits and brags about her career. This is outrageous.

speaking of mis-use or mis-appropriation of gov't funds - there was the chief of the first ATF Aviation division, Marshall Reese, that was finally convicted of embezzling $1.42 million, about 1993/94 from the aviation fund. I've got the story scanned but for some reason the board is coming back with a msg that "that is an invalid image extension.

point of the story is that ATF Medusa fought GAO & DOJ in prosecuting him. Robert Sanders former head of ATF law enforcement division was interviewed for the story - he basically stated what you guys have been saying - ATF mgmt is a "good old boy network with no oversight". It was authored by Jim Pate - he testified at congress about it. Because of it, congress forced ATF to shut down the aviation division

if someone else wants to post it, contact me thru the board - i'll give you the links the image host

This was a great scam.. Set up a shell company to rent the aircraft and then when he retired, they realized that they were paying double of what they should. If I remember correctly, Vanessa was his supervisor and signed off on everything. Nothing ever happened to him. ATF tried to cover this up since it made them look soooo stupid. He pled out as soon as they caught him. It pretty much killed our air wing. Nothing ever happened to his supervisor who signed off on everything.

How about SAC Matt Horace? Using his GOV for 2 plus years to work as armed security guard while also working as an agent, misusing his government credit card to buy personal items, misuse of GOV to drive to security job. Firing recommended, PRB: recommends 45 days; DO Ted Royster mitigated down to 4 days off without pay which ncluded a weekend . He was working as an agent in the Comm Ctr in early 90s at that time. He rises through the ranks. AS an ASAC in Seattle, under SAC Kelvin Crenshaw money from the AC fund is missing. He is caught on videotape at office stealing the AC funds. SAC Crenshaw goes after the 2 agents who set up the surviellance equipment to monitor the AC fund file cabinet, but not HORACE. They had to fight to keep their jobs, and finally HQ realizes, because enough bad news was breaking, that HORACE needs to be punished. He went to HQ. As an unsupervised SAC in Denver, he was again using AC funds to buy his lunch then replace the money later. WHO thought promoting from HQ back to the field, into a NON-SAC office was a good idea? So he steals, whatever. Then he gets the SES SAC job in New Jersey. Somehow his GOV is parked in a no parking zone in front of stripper club in the evening hours. He says he was getting a haircut. He sent an email to his division agents to try to cover his actions. REALLY? And this man is still on the job? DOJ OIG if you aren't too busy, maybe read over his red covers in ATF IA. Find out who in the ATF Atty pool he is tight with, because he seems to thrive on his unethical and criminal behaviour. Lack of Candor might even be used to describe his actions.

This is such a great one. He was actually stealing CI files to take attention away from the internal affairs investigation in his lying about damage to his vehicle. The best part is when it came to light, Kelvin throws I.A. out of the division in the middle of the investigation and destroys the tapes. The agents who set up the surveillance camera catching Matt stealing the CI files get days off, put can't appeal since it was a small number and they had the other ASAC give them the days. Don't forget Matt renting an Escalade while in Denver to drive to Vail. He actually ended up getting days off for lying to I.A. and was sent to HQ to rot. Then he get a SAC job. Wait! You can't get promoted after lying directly to I.A. can you??? Vince got fired for a lack of candor.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. We promote some people for actions that should get them fired and we fire some people for doing something that got someone else promoted. I would love to see every single charge they made against Vince and Jay, then find an example of "one of the chosen few" getting a promotion for doing the exactly same thing. DAD Marvin Richardson made a chart to standardize punishment for everyone in the agency, but was told that it wouldn't be applied to GS-15s and above. It seems GS-15s and above aren't held to a higher standard, they are held to no standard. Don't get me wrong. There are several outstanding upper managers in ATF, but just like in sales - "treat one customer good and he might tell one other person, treat one customer poorly and he will tell everyone." You don't remember the good managers doing what they should be doing as much as the psychos making everyones life a living hell. In business, if you didn't do your job and cost your company a $1,000,000 you would be looking for a new job. In ATF, they don't even notice and keep doing it.

Let's start a list of things some people get away with, while ATF HQ seems to go after others for minor offenses.

Let's start with Vanessa McLemore. She should be a legend in crazy misdeeds.

How about forcing agents to provide security details to her friends in hope that it would lead to another job for her. Her punishment? Removed as SAC of Atlanta and made Special Assistant to the Director. Anyone else would have been criminal prosecuted. This isn't a story. It's fact!

I say we go back as far as we can remember. Those of us who have been around for twenty years know some funny stories. How 'bout the attache for Canada who got thrown out for two separate allegations of rape and then still got promoted. Of course, it's hard to beat all the stuff Vanessa McLemore (?) did. That could be a topic in itself.

It would be interesting to see list the crazy stuff upper management has gotten away with through the years and who they have gone after for so, so much less. From Matt Horace getting days off for lying directly to Internal Affairs, then getting promoted, then to Kelvin Crenshaw throwing Internal Affairs out of Seattle during an investigation, then getting promoted to the head of Internal Affairs. Seriously, we should start a list of these crazy stories. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with race. Dick Chase didn't even live in Denver when he was the SAC and stole a bunch of car parts upon his departure. Once you are their ugly baby (upper management) you can do no wrong. What about the agent who didn't report to the tracing center and just sat at her house in Chicago for a full year getting paid. When they finally figured it out, nothing happened to her.

Latest word is FBI and DEA have been told to make plans for folding ATF into their agencies. GET READY NRA! You wanted it and it looks like it is finally happening. Arson and Explosives will go to FBI. Gun enforcement and Industry Ops will go to DEA. At this point, it might be the best thing. Currently, ATF will have to lay off 400 employees if they go to 2008 budget constraints. No money for operations, just survival. I know DEA and FBI have their own problems, but at least they have more room to hide the idiots. ATF promotes theirs. Of course, we are much better at eating our own. This might be the end of ATF. As a gun owner and a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment, I worry about the gun laws if the authority goes to the FBI. DEA might be a better fit. ATF gets pushed around by the NRA. They keep saying we have been without a director for 6 years, but it was Truscott before that, so... it has been a lot time since ATF had a truly strong director or accountability. I fear the only thing that will happen if ATF stays intact is the top people will be removed and their minions will take their place. Same type of people with different faces. No real changes. We also heard that Virginia O'Brien really did let guns go to Honduras. I don't know if that means they watched suspected straw purchasers buy guns and didn't confront them or they actually had UCs or CIs hand gun to traffickers. Of course, HQ is saying that Dodson while undercover actually handed guns purchased with agent cashier funds to firearms traffickers in another case prior to F&F. That is why he was in trouble in the first place and he is only trying to deflect attention away from his own misdeeds. It will be nice if he testifies again and he can set the record straight and show how the 5th floor tries to slander people. What is next, Dobyns shot Kennedy and Vince faked the moon landings.

Pinacolada,

It sounds like some DIO/Area Sups unique interpretation of instructions. I've been told by IOI's who worked for DAD McCabe when he was a DIO he had the exact same policy but if you finished your assignments and traveled home without staying overnight he never said a word, because it saved the Bureau money. He just didn't want IOIs spending most of their shift driving or running up milage on personal vehicles by driving back and forth on the same assignment.

Zorro, haven't a clue what ATF's mission is in Denmark but i'm willing to "take one for the team" and go on a fact finding mission...

A little bird told me that ATF Lab Services is still running NIBIN into the ground. Wasted another $400,000 by not shutting down over 30 sites they already agreed needed to be shut down. Wasted $450,000 the previous quarter by not getting around to shutting down the sites they already agreed on shutting down. That is $850,000 in the past six months pissed away. Over $20,000,000 in the past two years wasted on sites that don't produce and everyone agrees needs to be shut down. I heard that Risenhoover complained to DOJ IG and they did nothing. It is only a matter of time till they go after him. The government is broke and ATF can't be bothered to save $20,000,000. NIBIN is a great program and works well in big cities. No one listens and keeps on driving the bus into the river. Why????