ATF exceeds the FBI and DEA in per agent number of complaints? They are four times our size. Paid more out in settlements than the FBI? Great job Ms. Loos and Co. Hopefully Mr. Melson will see Ms. Loos services as destructive and no longer needed. ATF has paid out More $$$$ do to unecessary disputes than they have asked for in the 2011 appropriations request for ESF 13. And Mr. Melson is quoted as saying our mission is NOT being impacted by mismanagement.
CleanUpATF.org Nearing 60,000 Viewings
Started by
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, May 03 2010 11:13 PM
13 replies to this topic
#2
Doc Holiday
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Posted 05 June 2010 - 07:48 AM
To those of you who have come forward with your own storys of internal abuses, we are not ignoring you. We ARE capturing them all in a master document to submit to those members of Congress charged with oversight of these matters. We are opting at this time NOT to forward them to Mr. Melson for review as we are not convinced he is prepared to address them. Hopefully he is taking this seriously. To answer your questions, yes there are numerous media outlets agressively pursuing storys about the internal state of affairs at ATF. We are opting at this time to allow Mr. Melson an opportunity to address the disconnect and morale issues internally first. Thank you to all for staying positive. We are forwarding ALL of your emails of support and well wishes to Agents Andrades, Cefalu and Dobyns.
#3
Guest_Simple Man_*
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Posted 01 June 2010 - 01:16 PM
Mr. Melson, now is the perfect time to do something. Take care of the people who have been damaged and stop protecting and defending the ones who have been doing damaging.
#4
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Posted 01 June 2010 - 11:06 AM
Paul, as to having to deal with people in that other agency, many of us who were in ATF in the late 1990s/early 2000s feel your pain.
Some of the management style breeded by ATF then trickled over to quite high levels in that other agency. By all published measures, Management/Employee relations are not so hot there either!
#5
Paul
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Posted 01 June 2010 - 08:54 AM
Good morning all:
You can be assured that I'm not internal. I just saw the report on CNN & registered. I will be the first to confess my ignorance of ATF. I'm sorry to learn of all this that is going on & it's just not right.
In a way of introduction(hope it's ok here) I'm a former leo be it a lot of years ago. Currently employed by a major airline so I have dealings with another agency 
#6
Guest_Jumper_*
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Posted 01 June 2010 - 08:40 AM
A new record for www.CleanUpATF.org: 285 users viewing the site at one time during a period this weekend. New members are joining every day.
Not bad for a website about a bunch of annonomous, whining, prima donna, ATF employees who have "unfounded allegations" (Melson-CNN) talking about "managements perogatives" (aka retaliation as defined by Domenech-CNN).
When the #2 guy at ATF has to report corruption annonomously (Domenech) and it results in "career suicide" (Domenech-CNN) does Melson really think we are going to post here with our real names or walk into his office to report retaliation based on his "guarantee" (Melson-CNN) that we will not suffer?
Not bad for a website about a bunch of annonomous, whining, prima donna, ATF employees who have "unfounded allegations" (Melson-CNN) talking about "managements perogatives" (aka retaliation as defined by Domenech-CNN).
When the #2 guy at ATF has to report corruption annonomously (Domenech) and it results in "career suicide" (Domenech-CNN) does Melson really think we are going to post here with our real names or walk into his office to report retaliation based on his "guarantee" (Melson-CNN) that we will not suffer?
#7
Doc Holiday
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Posted 15 May 2010 - 12:31 PM
Counsels battle cry is thay we don't want to set a precedent. NEWS FLASH HQ you have clearly set one that you now own. The debacle of an agency you have created IS your legacy that we and the taxpayers will be paying for long after you are gone. To break it down for you: the precedent is that everyone but bosses are ignorant and whiners. That you have to fight nasty on each dispute, grievance or complaint or the floodgates of transparecy will be opened. GUESS WHAT, you have disregarded and disrespected the field so badly that now the gates ARE opened.Remember the American revolution? Remember what happened when loyal and devoted people were abused? The King of England didn't want to set a precedent either.
#8
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Posted 14 May 2010 - 09:49 PM
Melson, Loos, Hoover and the rest of them don't get it. They never have and they never will. Melson lives in a world where his "yes men" feed him half the facts and he is naive enough to think he is getting the truth. Loos has treated agents as if we are the enemy litterally costing ATF millions of dollars by extending fights that could have been solved quickly and cheaply. Billy is the biggest disappointment. He arrived with such high hopes (just like Ronnie). They both turned out to be nothing more than empty suits.
Lets make a quick run down of who had a chance at the highest executive levels to enact change but instead shrugged their duties: Truscott, Sullivan, Melson, Domenech, Bouchard, Webb, Carter, Hoover, O'Brien, Julie Torres, McMahon, Rubenstien, Loos. Directors, Deputies, DAD's and attorneys. They all have had a chance to make the right decisions and do something good, they all passed on the opportunity. Some could have forced change, some could have stood up for it, they all did absolutely nothing.
These the the people and reason that CleanUpATF exists! If you executives don't have the ability to pay attention, demand justice and offer leadership we the employees of ATF will do it for you.
#9
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Posted 05 May 2010 - 04:18 AM
To all of those who make this website possible, and whose hundreds of hours of service keep us coming back for new content, I say "Job Well Done" for your excellence of service to ATF and the American public whose safety is your prime consideration. Thank You!!
#10
Thor God of Thunder
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Posted 05 May 2010 - 03:00 AM
Congratulations CleanupATF.org!!!!
For Clean Up ATF!
#11
Thor God of Thunder
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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:59 AM
I sleep better at night now knowing that I am not alone and that finally the talking heads of ATF are being held responsible and accountable for their actions. I am proud to be counted as as part of the 60k viewings and a regular member of this website. They can no longer hide their dirty little secrets and will think twice of their illegitimate actions when they know that at anytime their slimy behavior may be placed under the light of day and the spotlight of scrutiny on CLEANUPATF.ORG!! This is the only real relief that we have and the only way we will defeat this Goliath! It is of no use to receive a fat settlement check and it is a waste of my tax dollars, if ATF does not learn its lesson!
For Clean Up ATF!
#12
Doc Holiday
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Posted 04 May 2010 - 10:06 PM
The absolute shame of the leadership in our Bureau, is that instead of using CUATF to identify the issues that are creating the breakdown of the mission, they avoid and ignore 60000 views. It is either arrogance or apathy, but they are not listening. Or I guess 60000 malcontents.
#13
Guest_microscope_*
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Posted 04 May 2010 - 07:40 AM
ATF management is naive enough to think that those 50K+ viewings are internal. They are wrong. THe public, Congress, media, DOJ, the White House are watching this. The best, or worst, part of this is that the very managers who are being called out did this to themselves by acting as if they are above the law while they retaliate against the field.
#14
Guest_Jumper_*
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Posted 03 May 2010 - 11:13 PM
In the roughly one-year of existence, the CleanUpATF.org website currently has over 57,000 viewings. At the current pace the site will be over 60,000 viewings by the end of the month and over 100,000 viewings by the end of the fiscal year.
While our management tells us everything is better than its ever been tens of thousands of people are asking serious questions regarding how this agency is being run.
This is a credit to the members who have posted examples of their experiences, documents and damages that they have suffered at the hands of ATF's bad managers. It has created a phenomena of accountability where there historically was none. Never before in the history of American law enforcement have field employees challenged the unethical practices of their leadership to this level of public scrutiny. For the first time information is being exchanged between the damaged parties and clear and present common denominators are being revealed.
Why does this site exist? Why was it started? The cowards and guilty will tell you it is disgruntled, malcontent, sour grapes agents who can't be satisfied by any of managements decisions. Don't believe the brainwashing. It started, exists and thrives because of the ATF managers who turned their backs on the complaints of field employees and left them no other means of communication.
Keep your postings sharp. Stay on target and topic. Not every manager in this agency is bad. In fact, some are very, very good. Our problem is that the bad ones are really bad and they are the ones in the positions with the most influence over our direction and future. Call them out by name and deed.
Do not tolerate hypocracy from our leaders who point accusing fingers but show no personal ethics or dignity behind their closed doors. Do not accept the double standards of discipline with soft landings guaranteed to the favored sons but a destruction of career, reputation and finances for those deemed not worthy of being in "the club". Do no allow ATF attorneys to always and everytime defend the bad acts of ATF's managers while crushing the spirit of every field employee who simply seeks justice and fairness and does so within the rules. We will no longer accept your lies, deceptions, perjury, manipulations of the truth, harrassment, reprisal and hostile work enviornments. Our patience for that reached its end about a year ago when www.cleanupatf.org came into existence.
Don't worry bad bosses. We're not going to post your names here. At least not today. You know who you are. You know your lies. You know what you did. The twist of fate is that we in the field now know it too and we ain't done with exposing your corruption by a long shot.
While our management tells us everything is better than its ever been tens of thousands of people are asking serious questions regarding how this agency is being run.
This is a credit to the members who have posted examples of their experiences, documents and damages that they have suffered at the hands of ATF's bad managers. It has created a phenomena of accountability where there historically was none. Never before in the history of American law enforcement have field employees challenged the unethical practices of their leadership to this level of public scrutiny. For the first time information is being exchanged between the damaged parties and clear and present common denominators are being revealed.
Why does this site exist? Why was it started? The cowards and guilty will tell you it is disgruntled, malcontent, sour grapes agents who can't be satisfied by any of managements decisions. Don't believe the brainwashing. It started, exists and thrives because of the ATF managers who turned their backs on the complaints of field employees and left them no other means of communication.
Keep your postings sharp. Stay on target and topic. Not every manager in this agency is bad. In fact, some are very, very good. Our problem is that the bad ones are really bad and they are the ones in the positions with the most influence over our direction and future. Call them out by name and deed.
Do not tolerate hypocracy from our leaders who point accusing fingers but show no personal ethics or dignity behind their closed doors. Do not accept the double standards of discipline with soft landings guaranteed to the favored sons but a destruction of career, reputation and finances for those deemed not worthy of being in "the club". Do no allow ATF attorneys to always and everytime defend the bad acts of ATF's managers while crushing the spirit of every field employee who simply seeks justice and fairness and does so within the rules. We will no longer accept your lies, deceptions, perjury, manipulations of the truth, harrassment, reprisal and hostile work enviornments. Our patience for that reached its end about a year ago when www.cleanupatf.org came into existence.
Don't worry bad bosses. We're not going to post your names here. At least not today. You know who you are. You know your lies. You know what you did. The twist of fate is that we in the field now know it too and we ain't done with exposing your corruption by a long shot.
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