229 replies to this topic

[Doc Holiday]

Mr. Traver and Mr Melson, WHERE DOES THE BUCK STOP? For yrs now we've been compiling open record examples of abuse, waste,fraud and abuse, and gross mismanagent. This doesn't include the waves of policy and law violations by senior managers who go unchecked. Who is actually in Charge. If I hear one more presumably intelligent and competent manager say, I Don't know or Don't recall to rules, regs and policies they are required to know, I'm going to be ILL. If one more of your managers says ILL HAVE TO RUN IT BY CHIEF COUSEL, they should be fired. Your legal counsel is at the root of 75% of your problems confronting you. Incompetent SES's are the other 25%. You sir will be the next to go by the wayside and get all the credit for running this place into the ground, just like the lawyers ran over Boushard, Domenench, Sullivan and Carter. You've let them talk you into covering up corrupt and unethical practices. And ultimately you will be the fall guys. Who's gonna take responsibilty? WHERE DOES THE BUCK STOP?

[Doc Holiday]

Worth heeding is putting it lightly. With the current state of affairs across the board in this Bureau, they better be enlisting the help of ALL of the field and damn sure take it seriously when a man of former Congressman Lightfoots stature calls for hearings. He was saving this Bureau before some of these SES types were even GS - 9s.

[adelgadoiis]

I'm not sure how many people are awarded the title "Honorary ATF Agent." Rep. Jim Lightfoot was, and he lists it as among his accomplishments.

Iceman tells it straight --- and I'll be a bit more specific, in one instance of which I have direct knowledge. The Congress was bent on withholding $10 million from ATF's budget. That might not sound like a lot of bucks in today's environment, but not getting it would have meant laying off ATF employees; a significant number of them.

Rep. Lightfoot stuck $10 million for ATF into an agricultural appropriations bill, and saved the jobs (if not careers) of however many ATF employees that $10 million would buy.

I believe Rep. Lightfoot wrote what he did about ATF out of concern for its survival, and because of his profound belief in the core ATF mission. As he points out, ATF has been without a permanent Director for some 6 years now. Not having a permanent Director is flat out irresponsible, especially for an agency with a mission like ATF's mission.

It is unclear whether the top executives at ATF, or their counterparts at the Department of Justice, realize the role Rep. Lightfoot played in supporting ATF and saving some untold numbers of jobs and careers. He was clearly moved by the instances of abuse at ATF that he cited; enough so to take the time to write the letter he wrote. His wise counsel is worth heeding.

Thanks goes out to Rep. Lightfoot for caring.

[1desertrat]

The 1811 job has changed so radically from 20 years ago. When I entered government service with ATF, I recall reviewing the cases that were in the file cabinet to see what types of cases were being worked and get familiar with what I would need to do and what would be expected of me. The results of my review were that the Agents at that time were doing a lot of what we term today as "road kill" or adoptions. There were also a lot of declinations from the US Attorneys Office (that has not changed). My point is that all of the leaders of today, no matter how much they claim that they were workers or did this or that, are out of touch with conducting an investigation. They can read reports and regurgitate what happened or what the time lines were or ask dumb questions but that is it. They do not go into the case management system or if they do it is very rarely. This is not a criticism. These are the facts.

We used to recommend any cigarette and alcohol cases to the local state liquor and tobacco board. These days these types of alcohol and tobacco cases are being investigated and resulting in millions of dollars in seizures and forfeiture for ATF.

My overall point is that just because you are a good investigator does not make you a good leader, manager or supervisor, as so many of us assume or infer in some of the postings. I am excited that an 1811 will be the Director of ATF. I am hopeful that he will take this agency in the right direction. I am not expecting any miracles. I want to remain hopeful and have faith that in the end, Mr. Traver will do the right thing but I am definitely not expecting any miracles. I want to believe that Mr. Traver will stop the abuse, retaliation and reprisal of ATF employees. Yes it is still happening, no matter what Mr. Melson says. I want to believe that Mr. Traver has a vision for where he wants to take this agency and not recycle the same old ideas. I want to believe that Mr. Traver will be inclusive and not exclusive, which has been the ATF traditional way of doing business.

If Mr. Traver is more of the same, he will be the subject of many postings on this site soon.

P L E A S E…… no disrespect, but you HAVE been retired a long time. A shmuck with an 1811 title is still a shmuck! Let us not forget that he did not get the job by merit, but political connections. As a learned student of the Chicago machine, he will most likely bestow favors upon those who will hold the party line and serve his personal agenda and interests the best…all else is secondary to achieving that goal. Nothing more than another corrupt politician with a badge and gun.

[avatar]

I'm not sure how many people are awarded the title "Honorary ATF Agent." Rep. Jim Lightfoot was, and he lists it as among his accomplishments.

Iceman tells it straight --- and I'll be a bit more specific, in one instance of which I have direct knowledge. The Congress was bent on withholding $10 million from ATF's budget. That might not sound like a lot of bucks in today's environment, but not getting it would have meant laying off ATF employees; a significant number of them.

Rep. Lightfoot stuck $10 million for ATF into an agricultural appropriations bill, and saved the jobs (if not careers) of however many ATF employees that $10 million would buy.

I believe Rep. Lightfoot wrote what he did about ATF out of concern for its survival, and because of his profound belief in the core ATF mission. As he points out, ATF has been without a permanent Director for some 6 years now. Not having a permanent Director is flat out irresponsible, especially for an agency with a mission like ATF's mission.

It is unclear whether the top executives at ATF, or their counterparts at the Department of Justice, realize the role Rep. Lightfoot played in supporting ATF and saving some untold numbers of jobs and careers. He was clearly moved by the instances of abuse at ATF that he cited; enough so to take the time to write the letter he wrote. His wise counsel is worth heeding.

Mr. Melson AND/OR Mr. Traver,
It is on one of your watches now. For those of us who were around during and after Waco, it was a hard and scary time in this agency. If not for the near "heroic" actions of then Congressman James Lightfoot and Senator Dennis Deconcini, this agency WAS going to be abolished or merged. They have a huge hand in saving, rebuilding and funding this great agency. Below are JUST "excerpts" of a letter sent to ALL freshman Congressman and select committee Chairs on November 20, 2010. I urge you to read it in its entirety. Its extremely disturbing but totally in keeping with the intent of this website. CLEANUPATF. I think its time members of Congress step up and grabs the reins since nobody in our senior management is going to do it.

James R Lightfoot
MEMBER OF CONGRESS (Ret)
1985-1997


November 20, 2010

Dear Freshman Member of Congress:

Obviously, congratulations are in order on your recent winning election. Enjoy the moment, as the heavy lifting is about to begin.

You are faced with two terrific challenges;
1. Don’t let Washington change you.
2. Meet the high expectations of the people that elected you.

Pick one or two agencies for the “Mr. Clean” treatment. Go after them in high profile. You will be surprised how many other agencies will start to clean up their acts.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) would be s good place to start. It is one of the smaller agencies, therefore completing the audits and investigations will take less time. It is an agency that has drifted for nearly six years without a permanent Director.

ATF was recently featured on CNN regarding an agent who blew the whistle on an illegal wiretap and was rewarded with exile to an office with nothing to do for two years.

One of their Special Agents in Charge (SAC) was found by a local reporter to be driving a brand new Cadillac with all the bells and whistles plus a police package. His punishment was to move him to DC Headquarters with a promotion.

Check the millions of dollars paid out in settlements to employees as well as the huge backlog of employee complaints being ignored. Compare this to other larger agencies and you will be shocked at the level of abuse and waste.

[Iceman]

Mr. Melson AND/OR Mr. Traver, It is on one of your watches now. For those of us who were around during and after Waco, it was a hard and scary time in this agency. If not for the near "heroic" actions of then Congressman James Lightfoot and Senator Dennis Deconcini, this agency WAS going to be abolished or merged. They have a huge hand in saving, rebuilding and funding this great agency. Below are JUST "excerpts" of a letter sent to ALL freshman Congressman and select committee Chairs on November 20, 2010. I urge you to read it in its entirety. Its extremely disturbing but totally in keeping with the intent of this website. CLEANUPATF. I think its time members of Congress step up and grabs the reins since nobody in our senior management is going to do it. James R Lightfoot MEMBER OF CONGRESS (Ret) 1985-1997 November 20, 2010 Dear Freshman Member of Congress: Obviously, congratulations are in order on your recent winning election. Enjoy the moment, as the heavy lifting is about to begin. You are faced with two terrific challenges; 1. Don’t let Washington change you. 2. Meet the high expectations of the people that elected you. Pick one or two agencies for the “Mr. Clean” treatment. Go after them in high profile. You will be surprised how many other agencies will start to clean up their acts. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) would be s good place to start. It is one of the smaller agencies, therefore completing the audits and investigations will take less time. It is an agency that has drifted for nearly six years without a permanent Director. ATF was recently featured on CNN regarding an agent who blew the whistle on an illegal wiretap and was rewarded with exile to an office with nothing to do for two years. One of their Special Agents in Charge (SAC) was found by a local reporter to be driving a brand new Cadillac with all the bells and whistles plus a police package. His punishment was to move him to DC Headquarters with a promotion. Check the millions of dollars paid out in settlements to employees as well as the huge backlog of employee complaints being ignored. Compare this to other larger agencies and you will be shocked at the level of abuse and waste.

Attached Files

•  FreshmanLH.doc   39.5KB   136 downloads

[Thor God of Thunder]

The 1811 job has changed so radically from 20 years ago. When I entered government service with ATF, I recall reviewing the cases that were in the file cabinet to see what types of cases were being worked and get familiar with what I would need to do and what would be expected of me. The results of my review were that the Agents at that time were doing a lot of what we term today as "road kill" or adoptions. There were also a lot of declinations from the US Attorneys Office (that has not changed). My point is that all of the leaders of today, no matter how much they claim that they were workers or did this or that, are out of touch with conducting an investigation. They can read reports and regurgitate what happened or what the time lines were or ask dumb questions but that is it. They do not go into the case management system or if they do it is very rarely. This is not a criticism. These are the facts. We used to recommend any cigarette and alcohol cases to the local state liquor and tobacco board. These days these types of alcohol and tobacco cases are being investigated and resulting in millions of dollars in seizures and forfeiture for ATF. My overall point is that just because you are a good investigator does not make you a good leader, manager or supervisor, as so many of us assume or infer in some of the postings. I am excited that an 1811 will be the Director of ATF. I am hopeful that he will take this agency in the right direction. I am not expecting any miracles. I want to remain hopeful and have faith that in the end, Mr. Traver will do the right thing but I am definitely not expecting any miracles. I want to believe that Mr. Traver will stop the abuse, retaliation and reprisal of ATF employees. Yes it is still happening, no matter what Mr. Melson says. I want to believe that Mr. Traver has a vision for where he wants to take this agency and not recycle the same old ideas. I want to believe that Mr. Traver will be inclusive and not exclusive, which has been the ATF traditional way of doing business. If Mr. Traver is more of the same, he will be the subject of many postings on this site soon.

[apostate]

I say we have to give the man a chance. By all accounts from what I am hearing is that he is a fair and hardworking man. He is one of us and comes from the ranks. He is not some attorney who thinks they know LE having never done it. From what I know about Martin he expects his people to work. I am good with that. If you are not working then move over for someone who wants the job. Complaining that he was doing TIII's and recovered no guns. At least he / they are doing them? Have or are you doing them? Road kills have become the norm for even our most "Senior" ranks. Any case is like fishing, sometimes you get the big one and sometimes you get skunked. In my opinion they were / are at least fishing. There are many who will sit and complain about having to go fishing and then complain because others are not fishing.

The radical NRA has already said that his name should be removed. They love the fact that we have been neutered for so long.

Let us hope for the best and hold him accountable for what he does and does not. Not what you already think he is going to do!

Have to respectively disagree re the comment about the"radical NRA" neutering ATF. Calling the NRA radical is absurd IMO. They are just defending the American public's Second Amendment rights.Many in ATF believe in the Second Amendment and support the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms.

All my years in ATF never saw the NRA neuter the ATF. I saw plenty of ASAC's and SAC's AD's etc. neuter the agents in their attempts to do investigations and to arrest the worst of the worst in an attempt to do the right thing and defend the American public from very dangerous criminals. I did see plenty in upper management neuter and destroy the agency because of their egos and extremely poor decisions and embarrassing personal behavior. Need to start with our agency first before blaming the NRA

I was one of those agents who tried to big investigations targeting dangerous drug/ firearms organizations. It was a real fight with my ASAC's and SAC's to keep my investigations going. Every week trying to shut my investigations down. Too much money. I had only spent $5000 and already had 18 defendants wrapped up in the case. U S Attorney's office pushing me for more buys etc to keep case going in order to get more sw's and arrest warrants. Try and get support from the Intell group was a waste of time and we all know why. That is why Sr agents are burned out fighting management just trying to do their jobs. See Vince and Jay as an example. Many now do do "roadkill" cases because of no support from upper management. Sr. agents receive no support because those in upper and even middle management have never done any investigations.

Hopefully A Traver will change this culture in ATF otherwise ATF is doomed to fail and be absorbed by another more efficient agency. Best of luck to the new leader

[Doc Holiday]

Agreed. For now he's the man and he deserves a chance. Re; Martin, he wasn't some grade 7 or 9. He drives the boat. When 235000 pre prosecution of incareration dollars are spent per defendant Just to Do a TIII, that poor judgement, wasteful and an obvious disconnect with ATFs mission. Its all about the press and fame with him. A black rhino horn is not a case an experienced SACs showboats on. I get the work part and that's where we agree but losing 15 ATF agents to others agencies,early retirement and resignation is pure and simple abuse. Not just once but everywhere he's been. Steve Martin values ONE agent and one agents opinion only and that's Steve Martin. These are the facts.

[career13]

I say we have to give the man a chance. By all accounts from what I am hearing is that he is a fair and hardworking man. He is one of us and comes from the ranks. He is not some attorney who thinks they know LE having never done it. From what I know about Martin he expects his people to work. I am good with that. If you are not working then move over for someone who wants the job. Complaining that he was doing TIII's and recovered no guns. At least he / they are doing them? Have or are you doing them? Road kills have become the norm for even our most "Senior" ranks. Any case is like fishing, sometimes you get the big one and sometimes you get skunked. In my opinion they were / are at least fishing. There are many who will sit and complain about having to go fishing and then complain because others are not fishing. The radical NRA has already said that his name should be removed. They love the fact that we have been neutered for so long. Let us hope for the best and hold him accountable for what he does and does not. Not what you already think he is going to do!

[Thor God of Thunder]

At this point and with the bunch of LOSERS and TURDS (that float to the top) that we currently have at the top, we can ONLY hope for the best and wish Mr. Traver well. It is premature to issue these warnings and ultimatums that are not constructive and have no value. A lot of issues have been put on the table via this website. If I am a betting man, Mr. Traver is paying attention and if he is not, he should be. I am hoping for the best because it can not get any worse than what it already is. The OIG reports and the bad publicity brought on by the leadership is unprecedented. The lies to cover up the lies and the ATF attorneys defending them to the very end. They can't do wrong right! When will this nightmare end????? Doc Holiday is right! Mr. Traver gets so much time before the problems are his. If he maintains the status quo with no significant and realistic change, he too will become a LOSER and/or a TURD. I will be the first one to say it or jump on the bandwagon, if someone else says it first.

[Doc Holiday]

We have NO choice but to give him a chance. Its the right thing to do. BUT He only gets SO LONG to say, "I inherited these problems" before he too will be held accountable. This is OUR Bureau too.

I think we owe Traver a chance and not be quick to pre-judge. We all ponder what we would do different if we were to replace our boss. Traver is a well educated man and I have to believe that he has seen the decline of this agency over the last few years. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt that he is well intentioned, will seek good counsel, learn from past mistakes and focus on mission. It is about time we have a cop at the helm, the lawyers have proved inadequate and incapable of decision making.

[Patriot]

I think we owe Traver a chance and not be quick to pre-judge. We all ponder what we would do different if we were to replace our boss. Traver is a well educated man and I have to believe that he has seen the decline of this agency over the last few years. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt that he is well intentioned, will seek good counsel, learn from past mistakes and focus on mission. It is about time we have a cop at the helm, the lawyers have proved inadequate and incapable of decision making.

[Iceman]

If his first decision is to appoint Martin DD, he's already lost. Probably trying to fly under the radar, the U. S. Attys office released (over the weekend) that the big NEUTRALITY ACT case Martin supported and solf the Director on, has been dismissed. They did not mention the ONLY thing seized in that huge caper, THE BLACK RHINO HORN. Yes it got Martin press and yes he wasted an entire squads resources and yes he seized NO GUNS. I guess the good news is that he allow us to blow $235000+ like he did on the OTHER big wire case. Great Job.

I think we'll find out pretty quick if he is the real deal. If the White House put him in the Director's chair just to keep a seat warm and fend off the critics, we'll see that immediately. If he comes in and makes moves and decisions and improvements then he'll do everything that Melson couldn't or wouldn't and likely be embraced. I am a little amazed that they left Traver all this baggage that his predessors created but time will tell if he can man up and get things working again. I will say this, if he doesn't move quick then he'll be in trouble. The men and women of ATF need results now. If he drags his feet he is going to be viewed as another Truscott-Sullivan-Melson DOJ lap dog. Good luck Traver, bring us back please.

[Doc Holiday]

Did he ever remove that ASAC who purchased the Cadillac?

I think we'll find out pretty quick if he is the real deal. If the White House put him in the Director's chair just to keep a seat warm and fend off the critics, we'll see that immediately. If he comes in and makes moves and decisions and improvements then he'll do everything that Melson couldn't or wouldn't and likely be embraced. I am a little amazed that they left Traver all this baggage that his predessors created but time will tell if he can man up and get things working again. I will say this, if he doesn't move quick then he'll be in trouble. The men and women of ATF need results now. If he drags his feet he is going to be viewed as another Truscott-Sullivan-Melson DOJ lap dog. Good luck Traver, bring us back please.

[ATFemployee]

Don't get your hopes up. This is all smoke and mirrors. DOJ and the White House have never really tried to find someone for director. Traver is all they half-heartedly put together. He will never pass confirmation. My bet is that he gets a hold put on his nomination within a week.

[apostate]

A precedent was set by ATF management after the debacle at Waco.Why would it change? Agents died and many were severely wounded due to very poor decisions on behalf of ATF management. These same managers then went before congress and lied while under oath regarding their actions and they all kept their jobs. Pretty much says it all!

[Iceman]

I just want ti piggy back Docs posting. The entire field knows that SES bosses are immune from accountability. If this is not true, Why is Crenshaw still a SAC after his integrity lapses? Torres, after a formal finding of discrimination in SFFD, Outting trade secrets about polygraphs and his latest abuse of media policies? Neweel is now an ATTACHE as a reward for costing the government a million dollars in dispute settlement? Ford remains with his signature on multiple lies to congressional inquiries? Gillette still an ASAC after his misconduct? Everybody including Cavanaugh this week are crying for more people and money. Seriously? THe Martin/Gleysteen team were soley responsible for a dozen trained senior agents (including supervisors) leaving the agency to other agencies,retirement, resignations and a couple wrongful terminations. We would be depending on new hires if our bosses hadn't run off our experience base.Case in point, word is SFFD had 3 openings for supervisors and in the interim, 5 year veterans have and are filling the "acting supervisor positions). Seriously? Are there no veterans left? Formal complaints regarding the failures of the Oakland boss and senior agent have gone unaddressed. So much so that the complaints went over the SACs head. Yep you guessed it, the RAC is still in place.

[Doc Holiday]

Now that we are past the Traver/Martin scare, Now what? Is there a plan B? This agency is spinning out of control. You cannot find TWO agents who can tell you what our short term much less our long term goals are. This won't change until SOMEBODY, ANYBODY takes control of the Bureau. Its not likely it will be Mr. Melson. He is being openly ignored by the good ol boy network because they believe he is a lame duck. He has been here long enough to draw his own conclusions, yet not ONE dirty,corrupt or unethical senior manager has been removed. Not one clear cut mandate for the bosses to knock off the abusive draconian practices has been heeded. Is Mr. Melson truly just here to warm a seat and allow the Bureau to be picked apart? Placing attorneys in key positions for a law enforcement agency is a very questionable practice. By training and culture, attorneys are not decision makers. They will analyze and compromise every aspect of their decisions. That's fine in a court of law BUT in a law enforcement world where we must make decisions in a nano second, we need bosses who understand that and can do the same. Take charge Mr. Melson. Bring in a fresh team. Let the corrupt managers know that this aint the way we do business. Please don't allow poor leadership force congressional oversight hearings. It won't be good for our already wounded Bureau. Start talking TO agents not AT them. We really do know this Bureau. Stop letting the Crenshaws, Torres,Hoovers, Chaits, Martins, Gleysteens, Fords, and Newells tell you what to do. As you are aware by now, they have gotten every decision wrong. Include us.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Ditto Doc. That rumor had some really scary implications for the Agents who love this Bureau.

[Doc Holiday]

Now that Traver is out, does that mean the ridiculous notion of Steve Martin ever leaving the dark hole of intell is a fact as well. Many scary rumors have circulated since this fine Bureau was started. Riffs, abolishing, merging. But none so scary as Steve Martin EVER being able to impact the Bureau in a meaningful way. It will take years as it is to undo the damage to this Bureau, its productivity and morale that he has created. As it sits right now, The adminstration and DOJ have not gotten it right too many times related to ATF, but they got it right this time.

[Thor God of Thunder]

This agency deserves a "real" Director and not these wannabees. These idiots have no clue as to what they are doing and are total LOSERS. I guess Mr. Traver will have to eat crow for dinner...

[Doc Holiday]

Word is the Vetting process found some pretty scary skeletons in Mr. Travers closet. We are in trouble if this is true. Hopefully Mr. Obama has an alternate plan or we are done. Another 6 months w/o a Director and we will all be carrying Homeland security badges.Word is Mr. Traver has some issues with the truth. More to follow. Guess Steve Martin will be retiring after all.