I believe a few people outside the 1811 career field are torqued that only agents are involved. To be [I foolishly used the word "fair" here which upset another poster so please consider it replaced with "to put things in perspective for those who may not be familiar with agency staffing"], agents are the bulk of the mission; consequently, that is where most of the problems reside and it only makes sense to start there.... assuming the intent is genuine, it is a logical starting point....
HOWEVER:
First and foremost is "rewarding unethical and illegal conduct with cash (promotions/paid moves) is wrong". No one receiving ATF manager pay should need a panel for that and until that aspect of the culture is addressed, any other discussion is academic.
We will know soon enough if this is another Charlie Brown moment:
Panels in place to improve ATF.....
Started by
Guest_madea_*
, Feb 09 2012 06:55 AM
56 replies to this topic
#51
Zorro
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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:33 AM
The views and opinions expressed by the author are just that. They are not the official opinion of anyone anywhere in any capacity.
#52
Jaime3
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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:47 AM
I laughed so hard, tears appeared! LOL!!!
Yes, they don't want to be video taped because maybe, just maybe it would compare credibility.
Say something Monday, an Attorney talks to you Tuesday, you change your story on Wednesday. Wouldn't want the truth and accountability recorded.
Yes, they don't want to be video taped because maybe, just maybe it would compare credibility.
Say something Monday, an Attorney talks to you Tuesday, you change your story on Wednesday. Wouldn't want the truth and accountability recorded.
#53
Guest_madea_*
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:32 AM
Sullivan created SPAC's (Strategic Action Planning Commitees. They accomplished nothing. Melson had a better idea and used an outside web service to solicite suggestions for improvement. Not one suggestion was implemented(well the Glocks got stalled, but I think it was a budget issue and they had no choice, rather than the suggestion that they are not as reliable as the Sigs. Get some crazy glue to keep your sights on. Sorry I digressed). Now we have Panels, fingers crossed, maybe third times a charm. I only hope that every issue that the panel members bring forward is made public so that there will be transparency to the process and we will be able to see if this attempt is successful. My fear is that this will be another series of endless meetings and discussions that result in no real reform.
I totally agree Patriot, but I don’t think we will get any transparency. I already spoke to a panel member about the idea of having the meeting/s on video conferencing/recorded. You would have thought that I doused him with gasoline and threw a match on him. He clearly stated that he would never agree to having discussions recorded because he was concerned about how the recordings could be used later. WHAT????????? Did he think someone would airbrush his clothes off and post him on a porno site?
#54
Patriot
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:09 AM
Sullivan created SPAC's (Strategic Action Planning Commitees. They accomplished nothing. Melson had a better idea and used an outside web service to solicite suggestions for improvement. Not one suggestion was implemented(well the Glocks got stalled, but I think it was a budget issue and they had no choice, rather than the suggestion that they are not as reliable as the Sigs. Get some crazy glue to keep your sights on. Sorry I digressed). Now we have Panels, fingers crossed, maybe third times a charm. I only hope that every issue that the panel members bring forward is made public so that there will be transparency to the process and we will be able to see if this attempt is successful. My fear is that this will be another series of endless meetings and discussions that result in no real reform.
#55
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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:30 PM
For those agents who will be on the FLEOA panel, how many of you have been subjected to an I.A. investigation? How many of you have been sent home for 2 years or more to wait for a decision from the BDO? How many of you have received an I.A. investigation that is incomplete, or better yet, eliminates your statement altogether but retains all the statements against you? Have any of you learned from the witnesses that they never said the things attributed to them? How many have waited for the office of EEO to process your discrimination complaint for two years or more? Who do you know who has won a grievance? Are any of you trying to pay off attorney fees from a MSPB or EEOC hearing? How many of you have looked at bankruptcy because you were forced to transfer after a disagreement with your RAC or SAC? Any of you feel like committing suicide because of your work environment but you can’t get help because you will lose your security clearance?
Now let’s talk about your families. Many agents talked to Dr. Powderpuff and she was amazed at the “war zone mentality” that these agents were facing at work and how it was destroying their children and spouses. So panel members, if the above does NOT apply to your ATF experience, maybe you should reconsider your participation. If you have not experienced one of the above, maybe that’s why ATF and FLEOA chose you to sit on the panel. There’s a big difference between asking your friends about “problems” and actually experiencing them.
If you think Brandon wants to change the agency for the better, each of you should email him as soon as possible and ask to read Chrenshaw’s I.A. report, the proposal letter, and the decision letter that Brandon signed. If you are denied access to the truth of Crenshaw’s case, why waste the money flying out to D.C.? Ok, so the cherry blossoms are in bloom, you can take some pretty pictures.
Changes? Any of you remember Special Agent Medrano standing in his squad room with his gun to his head and pulling the trigger? The Ombudsman and Eleaner Loos knew the level of his pain. What changes were for him? Oh, that was Waco. Any changes since?
To quote the late Prather Randle, "Sandy, they (ATF) will never do anything until you get them by the balls. Only then will their hearts and minds follow". I'm thinking that this sudden interest in what the field has to say has everything to do with ATF's need to show congress that they are doing something and nothing to do with ATF's desire to change a damn thing. I say folks should stop listening to anything FLEOA and the leaders at ATF say, and start judging them by what they do. Sadly, I don't believe their hearts and minds are set on reform yet. We'll see.
#56
Jaime3
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Posted 09 February 2012 - 07:16 AM
Thank you Madea, you nailed it!
And that's all I'm gonna say about that!
And that's all I'm gonna say about that!
#57
Guest_madea_*
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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:55 AM
For those agents who will be on the FLEOA panel, how many of you have been subjected to an I.A. investigation? How many of you have been sent home for 2 years or more to wait for a decision from the BDO? How many of you have received an I.A. investigation that is incomplete, or better yet, eliminates your statement altogether but retains all the statements against you? Have any of you learned from the witnesses that they never said the things attributed to them? How many have waited for the office of EEO to process your discrimination complaint for two years or more? Who do you know who has won a grievance? Are any of you trying to pay off attorney fees from a MSPB or EEOC hearing? How many of you have looked at bankruptcy because you were forced to transfer after a disagreement with your RAC or SAC? Any of you feel like committing suicide because of your work environment but you can’t get help because you will lose your security clearance?
Now let’s talk about your families. Many agents talked to Dr. Powderpuff and she was amazed at the “war zone mentality” that these agents were facing at work and how it was destroying their children and spouses. So panel members, if the above does NOT apply to your ATF experience, maybe you should reconsider your participation. If you have not experienced one of the above, maybe that’s why ATF and FLEOA chose you to sit on the panel. There’s a big difference between asking your friends about “problems” and actually experiencing them.
If you think Brandon wants to change the agency for the better, each of you should email him as soon as possible and ask to read Chrenshaw’s I.A. report, the proposal letter, and the decision letter that Brandon signed. If you are denied access to the truth of Crenshaw’s case, why waste the money flying out to D.C.? Ok, so the cherry blossoms are in bloom, you can take some pretty pictures.
Changes? Any of you remember Special Agent Medrano standing in his squad room with his gun to his head and pulling the trigger? The Ombudsman and Eleaner Loos knew the level of his pain. What changes were for him? Oh, that was Waco. Any changes since?
Now let’s talk about your families. Many agents talked to Dr. Powderpuff and she was amazed at the “war zone mentality” that these agents were facing at work and how it was destroying their children and spouses. So panel members, if the above does NOT apply to your ATF experience, maybe you should reconsider your participation. If you have not experienced one of the above, maybe that’s why ATF and FLEOA chose you to sit on the panel. There’s a big difference between asking your friends about “problems” and actually experiencing them.
If you think Brandon wants to change the agency for the better, each of you should email him as soon as possible and ask to read Chrenshaw’s I.A. report, the proposal letter, and the decision letter that Brandon signed. If you are denied access to the truth of Crenshaw’s case, why waste the money flying out to D.C.? Ok, so the cherry blossoms are in bloom, you can take some pretty pictures.
Changes? Any of you remember Special Agent Medrano standing in his squad room with his gun to his head and pulling the trigger? The Ombudsman and Eleaner Loos knew the level of his pain. What changes were for him? Oh, that was Waco. Any changes since?
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