40 replies to this topic

[The Shadow]

The members of this forum needed to be aware that Dobyns' conduct is unethical and in direct conflict with the values he claims to stand for and hold others accountable for.

Are there different rules for different people? A double standard?
Do I have to go along to get along on this forum as well?

In an effort to adhere to the mission of this site, I'm calling on the webmaster not to delete this thread. Doing so will effectively be deleting the credibility of this site to expose all sides.

“In an effort to adhere to the mission of this site, I'm calling on the webmaster not to delete this thread. Doing so will effectively be deleting the credibility of this site to expose all sides”.

Really? You actually see the actions by active ATF upper management as anywhere near the same level as your accusations against Dobyns? If so there are absolutely no amount of words, stated facts or mere accusations that anyone could post that would make any sense to you. The actions you allege against Dobyns have no effect on the way ATF functions. Dobyns does not make policy or personnel decisions. He does not dictate the way criminal cases are investigated or ignored. He does not enforce the manner in which resources are allocated or denied. He does not dictate how allegations of illegal actions, violation of ATF policy, or disregard of the Orders are examined or overlooked by ATF. He is not an ATF manager. Depending on who is speaking will determine the amount of effect they state his life in ATF has or will have on the future of the agency as it stands today. But one thing is for sure, this site allows all to state their views as is evident by them allowing you to post here. So let’s get back to the exposing of all sides. Just look at the results what a leading Federal law enforcement agency tasked with conducting investigations have accomplished. How many street agents are awaiting termination, have already been terminated, or left in disgust after mere accusations of minor violations of ATF policy? Now how managers have had any action taken against them for serious violations of the law or ATF policy? Misuse of an ATF credit card will result in days off or termination for agents but not for SAC’s. Misinterpreted sexual talk will result in termination of days off for agents but actually having sexual relations with subordinates will result in action against ATF management. Misuse of ATF vehicles will result in termination or days off for agents but nothing happens to ATF managers for the same actions. Putting the public in eminent danger will get an agent fired or result in days off, but will get an ATF manager a transfer to HQ with no loss of pay. Permitting the exportation firearms to arm insurgents in a foreign nation with the expectation that they will be recovered at crime scenes, would result in an agent or U.S. citizen being extradited. But no loss of pay or rank results to those that manage such an operation in ATF.

But let’s compare the allegations of Dobyns and some Hollywood producers or others in the world of make believe to the real life death and destruction ATF finances. Boy am I upset with Dobyns. Thanks RobbG for opening my eyes to the mission of this site and to making for a safer America with that hard hitting expose. How many innocents were killed, lives were saved, and criminal charges filed by your investigation of the off duty conduct of a street agent? How many innocents were killed, lives were lost, and criminal charges not filed due to inept ATF managers allowed to spend the public’s money for their own personal gratification or vendettas?

[Jay A. Dobyns]

Not just quite yet on the deletion or lockout please. I think there is a little more than what meets the eye here. I'm close and it is not at all what it seems. Just give RobbG a little more time and lets see. Then, if nothing, I'll let the people who run the website decide what to do. This is accomplishing zero but I really don't mind it. Vince, Webmaster, just a little more time before RobbG or this thread gets smoked.

Ok RobbG, you have had your say and EVERYBODY knows that if what you say, this corrupt management team would have FIRED Dobyns IMMEDIATELY. Therefore your credibility is shit and I don't "call" on the webmaster to delete your ass, "IM BEGGING" him to. Go take it up with Jay. We are here to clean up this agency, not distracts from the criminal, unethical and immoral acts of those who lead this agency. My vote is delete this guy FOREVER. Vincent A. Cefalu (real name).

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Ok RobbG, you have had your say and EVERYBODY knows that if what you say, this corrupt management team would have FIRED Dobyns IMMEDIATELY. Therefore your credibility is shit and I don't "call" on the webmaster to delete your ass, "IM BEGGING" him to. Go take it up with Jay. We are here to clean up this agency, not distracts from the criminal, unethical and immoral acts of those who lead this agency. My vote is delete this guy FOREVER. Vincent A. Cefalu (real name).

[RobbG]

The members of this forum needed to be aware that Dobyns' conduct is unethical and in direct conflict with the values he claims to stand for and hold others accountable for.

Are there different rules for different people? A double standard?
Do I have to go along to get along on this forum as well?

In an effort to adhere to the mission of this site, I'm calling on the webmaster not to delete this thread. Doing so will effectively be deleting the credibility of this site to expose all sides.

[Doc Holiday]

DUDE REALLY? Our Bureau is caving in around us and all you can concern yourself with is Dobyns dealings? Seriously? This is the most pressing issue confronting the Bureau? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE A HQ GUY. THERE IS NO WAY A FIELD AGENT WOULD BE SUCH A DOUCHE'

Really not sure what to say. I've begged you to formalize this with ATF Internal Affairs, the Writers Guild and/or Fritz Clapp. Not sure what more I can do to help you get this monkey off your back. You clearly don't like me and I'm good with that. You need to get in line for the servicing of your complaint. The line goes out the front door, around the corner, down the block and stops somewhere in Washington, D.C. Take a number and wait. I'm now serving #4 in the Bird Haters club and your ticket is 125,786. There's quite a large group in front of you and this may just take a while. Please do something or go away but I don't think the Webmaster is going to let you hang around here too much longer with simple accusations. I didn't take your lunch money in 3rd grade did I?

[Jay A. Dobyns]

Really not sure what to say. I've begged you to formalize this with ATF Internal Affairs, the Writers Guild and/or Fritz Clapp. Not sure what more I can do to help you get this monkey off your back. You clearly don't like me and I'm good with that. You need to get in line for the servicing of your complaint. The line goes out the front door, around the corner, down the block and stops somewhere in Washington, D.C. Take a number and wait. I'm now serving #4 in the Bird Haters club and your ticket is 125,786. There's quite a large group in front of you and this may just take a while. Please do something or go away but I don't think the Webmaster is going to let you hang around here too much longer with simple accusations. I didn't take your lunch money in 3rd grade did I?

An ancient proverb says" Deceive One, Deceive All" and this is especially true in business.

When Dobyns deceived the Producer while under contract to another Producer, even without an exclusivity contract, he was not acting in good faith and left the Producer he was in contract with vulnerable to litigation or conflict of interest issues. The contract Producer is most likely to be damaged by these kinds of actions, since they put in the most time, energy and possibly a monetary investment. Additionally, a third party, such as a Network, Unions or Guilds can be affected and can have a sufficient cause of action. Dobyns knows these claims are TRUE and is just hoping they fall short of a cause of action.

And, yes this site is exactly the place for this kind of grievance. Dobyns himself is litigating his complaints through the court system, but still uses this platform to expose manipulative and unethical practices of others involved in Hollywood deals.

[RobbG]

An ancient proverb says" Deceive One, Deceive All" and this is especially true in business.

When Dobyns deceived the Producer while under contract to another Producer, even without an exclusivity contract, he was not acting in good faith and left the Producer he was in contract with vulnerable to litigation or conflict of interest issues. The contract Producer is most likely to be damaged by these kinds of actions, since they put in the most time, energy and possibly a monetary investment. Additionally, a third party, such as a Network, Unions or Guilds can be affected and can have a sufficient cause of action. Dobyns knows these claims are TRUE and is just hoping they fall short of a cause of action.

And, yes this site is exactly the place for this kind of grievance. Dobyns himself is litigating his complaints through the court system, but still uses this platform to expose manipulative and unethical practices of others involved in Hollywood deals.

[x1811]

I think, or at least hope, you are confusing me with Retired 1811. I went back through previous posts to relate your comments to what I may have said. I found that the rock throwing comments and the kissing of hindparts were made between RobbG and Retired 1811. Perhaps I should change my screen name to avoid confusion. I've been on this site for a long time and do not want to jeopardize my continued participation and learning about the important matters discussed herein. Let me know if I am wrong. Just trying to set the record straight as I understand it. Keep up the good work.

Webmaster Comment: My mistake. However, in my (lame) defense, RobbG erroneously cited "Retired x1811" as "probably the only intelligent one in the bunch", which is what prompted the transposition (since there are both a "Retired 1811" and an "x1811" posting. I've corrected the offending post below...my apologies for the mix-up.

No worries. Also, for the record, I want to announce that I am not "probably the only intelligent one in the bunch." I am far from it. Thanks for your attention to this detail.

[x1811]

<b>Webmaster Comments: </b><br><br>These posts will remain for now, mainly because I find them mildly amusing.<br><br>As for RobbG, you've asserted your allegations and have been publicly challenged to step up to the plate and do something about them (other than anonymously sniping at members of this website). &nbsp; We would therefore very much appreciate your updating us on an ongoing basis as to the status of your so-called "complaints", regardless of which venue(s) you select. I predict that this will never come to pass, because if RobbG actually had something tangible and actionable against Dobyns, he wouldn't waste his time spouting off about it in here. Naw, this is just another blowhard taking an inconsequential cheap shot at someone whose balls he isn't fit to cup or carry, in my opinion.<br><br>To wit, this is a guy who thinks that Sonny Barger was "eloquent" in his laughably predictable, voice-boxed denunciations of Dobyns. I believe it apparent that ol' Robb isn't even remotely as smart as he's attempted to appear (for example, with sanctimonious lectures regarding "logical fallacies" and "<i>ad hominem</i> arguments"). More importantly, he has ludicrously threatened to promulgate a "complaint" with a buffoonish ambulance chaser such as the appropriately named Fritz Clapp, who has long represented an organization whose members have (despite some other undeniably good deeds) "allegedly" committed savage acts of murder, sold meth to people whose lives were destroyed, and brutalized innocent people who "got in their way". I can't speak for anyone else, but this simple fact tells me everything I need to know about this feckless RobbG. What kind of malcontented jock-sniffer says something like that?<br><br>After smooching "x1811's" hindparts, he further said that we (the "rock throwers" of this website) are "losing our battle with management".&nbsp; By his jaundiced measure, perhaps, but certainly not ours.&nbsp; This website has been mentioned by name in national exposes criticizing ATF corruption more than 300 times since we launched. "Fast &amp; Furious" was, in point of fact, broken to the national media by this very website.&nbsp; We know (from inside sources) that ATF management at the highest levels has been reading this on a daily basis for years.&nbsp; I don't call any of that "losing", but to each his own.&nbsp; It's true that ATF management is still a cesspool of malfeasance and self-service, but at least a light has been publicly shined upon it for arguably the first time.&nbsp; Will all of this have been for naught?&nbsp; It's still too early to tell, but I can say with confidence that those of us who stepped up and made the effort have no regrets.<br><br>Besides, it's a just fuckin' website, Dude..we don't pretend to be Rosa Parks.<br><br>And finally, to RobbG, x1811 and the others who've been sniveling about "rocks being thrown at anyone who disagrees", etc., I will say once again, as I have many times before, this is a privately owned/operated website.&nbsp; If you don't like the "party line" we espouse, which includes enthusiastic support for management-despised heroes like Jay Dobyns, Vince Cefalu and others who, whatever their warts and vices, have risked their lives in the line in the call of duty countless times, and gone head-to-head against some of the biggest bullies in our society (e.g., ATF Chief Counsel's Office), feel free to go elsewhere.

I think, or at least hope, you are confusing me with Retired 1811. I went back through previous posts to relate your comments to what I may have said. I found that the rock throwing comments and the kissing of hindparts were made between RobbG and Retired 1811. Perhaps I should change my screen name to avoid confusion. I've been on this site for a long time and do not want to jeopardize my continued participation and learning about the important matters discussed herein. Let me know if I am wrong. Just trying to set the record straight as I understand it. Keep up the good work.

Webmaster Comment: My mistake. However, in my (lame) defense, RobbG erroneously cited "Retired x1811" as "probably the only intelligent one in the bunch", which is what prompted the transposition (since there are both a "Retired 1811" and an "x1811" posting. I've corrected the offending post below...my apologies for the mix-up.

[RobbG]

message received.

[Jay A. Dobyns]

I agree. Don't delete this thread. RobbG. First you post allegations on a website intended to expose ATF corruption. I advise you to take your allegations to ATF's Internal Affairs. Then you reply that this is not ATF business but better suited for the WGA, etc. Then you post up that maybe Sonny Barger's attorney is the proper place to make your complaint. Pick one or all but get on with it and leave this website to the people who run it an use it for its intended purpose - to expose corruption in ATF. If you believe I am corrupt then it is ATF business and you know what to do. I want you to make your allegations official. I am literally begging you to. Please come forward with this in some official manner.

[Patriot]

Take a look at the banner on this site. My view is that it is the mission statement for CleanUp. My suggestion for the webmaster is to delete this thread. RobbG signed on last Saturday with the intent to take a run at Jay. Clearly it is personal and not related to "restoring integrity and accountability to the Bureau" Jay is a public guy and to my knowledge has never hidden from anyone. He is accessable through other means. RobbG you used this forum to hide your identity and make accusations that may or may not be accurate, that doesn't matter here. What does matter, is that ATF management does read this site and I am fairly certain that they find some joy in seeing posters snipe at each other. There are some very brilliant visionaries who have posted here and healthy discussions are productive. I for one have learned at lot and I have been around a long time. Lets not fight each other and give management any reason to say that we are just a bunch of disgruntled employees. Webmaster, please delete this thread.

[x1811]

Making a point. Not denigrating anybody. However, for the RECORD, since the 70/80s, man for man or woman for woman, NOBODY has done it like ATF. Thats the fact Jack. Apology's. We are trying to CUATF, but the criminals in Senior leadership are not cooperating.

Then perhaps a change to the name of the web site should be cleanupatf.management.org. The previous postings on this site by ATF employees have not only attacked management, but there are ample postings by ATF employees against other ATF employees and the effectiveness of the agency.

[x1811]

x1811 you are off-topic.
Madea- If you dont care, why don't you stop posting as it only bumps up the thread making my argument appear more important than it really is. Thanks for that.
Doc holiday - Comparing my integrity to Dobyns when you don't know me is a logical fallacy called an ad hominem argument. Also, read the sentence again, I never said that "I" personally despise undercovers and whistleblowers, I simply stated that Hollywood as a industry loves and despises them.

And, on second thought, since Sonny Barger so eloquently called Jay Dobyns a liar on national television, I bet Fritz Clapp would be interested in my complaints as well.

Retired x1811 - You are probably the only intelligent one in the bunch. You've recognized that the rock throwers don't particularly like rocks thrown their way. Maybe that explains why these folks are losing their battle with management.

Not off topic in a direct reply to an earlier post for the sake of clarity. Stow the hubris and arrogance.

[Doc Holiday]

Then take your complaints to Fritz whoever.

x1811 you are off-topic.
Madea- If you dont care, why don't you stop posting as it only bumps up the thread making my argument appear more important than it really is. Thanks for that.
Doc holiday - Comparing my integrity to Dobyns when you don't know me is a logical fallacy called an ad hominem argument. Also, read the sentence again, I never said that "I" personally despise undercovers and whistleblowers, I simply stated that Hollywood as a industry loves and despises them.

And, on second thought, since Sonny Barger so eloquently called Jay Dobyns a liar on national television, I bet Fritz Clapp would be interested in my complaints as well.

Retired x1811 - You are probably the only intelligent one in the bunch. You've recognized that the rock throwers don't particularly like rocks thrown their way. Maybe that explains why these folks are losing their battle with management.

[RobbG]

x1811 you are off-topic.
Madea- If you dont care, why don't you stop posting as it only bumps up the thread making my argument appear more important than it really is. Thanks for that.
Doc holiday - Comparing my integrity to Dobyns when you don't know me is a logical fallacy called an ad hominem argument. Also, read the sentence again, I never said that "I" personally despise undercovers and whistleblowers, I simply stated that Hollywood as a industry loves and despises them.

And, on second thought, since Sonny Barger so eloquently called Jay Dobyns a liar on national television, I bet Fritz Clapp would be interested in my complaints as well.

Retired x1811 - You are probably the only intelligent one in the bunch. You've recognized that the rock throwers don't particularly like rocks thrown their way. Maybe that explains why these folks are losing their battle with management.

[Doc Holiday]

Making a point. Not denigrating anybody. However, for the RECORD, since the 70/80s, man for man or woman for woman, NOBODY has done it like ATF. Thats the fact Jack. Apology's. We are trying to CUATF, but the criminals in Senior leadership are not cooperating.

CIA DOD NSA do not put people behind bars. DEA and FBI still do. Clean up ATF before you denigrate other agencies.

[x1811]

I agree with Madea. If you have an axe to grind with Dobyns, do it either in private or to his face. There are MANY of us who are fond of him,(and a bunch who aren't) But one thing we KNOW, is that whatever contrived beliefs you have of any of his dealings you are WRONG. He is honest and has more personal integrity in his little finger than you have in your entire body. Go be an entertainment attorney, or sue him for his success or just go write your own shit. I'm certain he would never attack your adopted cases or whatever it is you do, since you have such disdain for undercover operatives, HOWEVER, without the ATF U/C program, there would be NO ATF. Especially since you new world big thinkers think its somehow prudent for us to shift to intelligence gathering............as if the CIA,FBI, DIA, DOD, DEA, NSA and all of the intelligence driven agency's cant get it done w/o us. How many violent criminals have the aforementioned agency's put behind bars?

CIA DOD NSA do not put people behind bars. DEA and FBI still do. Clean up ATF before you denigrate other agencies.

[Doc Holiday]

Hey RobbG,
On second thought, better keep using your pseudonym, because a highly skilled and motivated group of those UC Agents you refer to as despised and untrustworthy just locked up 60 in 4 months in Oakland, Ca. They Seized 90+ guns, and a shit load of dope and money. The biggest reason you should stay anonymous is that I personally know most of those you paint with your broad brush as despised and they WILL kick you ass,(including the female U/Cs).

I agree with Madea. If you have an axe to grind with Dobyns, do it either in private or to his face. There are MANY of us who are fond of him,(and a bunch who aren't) But one thing we KNOW, is that whatever contrived beliefs you have of any of his dealings you are WRONG. He is honest and has more personal integrity in his little finger than you have in your entire body. Go be an entertainment attorney, or sue him for his success or just go write your own shit. I'm certain he would never attack your adopted cases or whatever it is you do, since you have such disdain for undercover operatives, HOWEVER, without the ATF U/C program, there would be NO ATF. Especially since you new world big thinkers think its somehow prudent for us to shift to intelligence gathering............as if the CIA,FBI, DIA, DOD, DEA, NSA and all of the intelligence driven agency's cant get it done w/o us. How many violent criminals have the aforementioned agency's put behind bars?

[Doc Holiday]

I agree with Madea. If you have an axe to grind with Dobyns, do it either in private or to his face. There are MANY of us who are fond of him,(and a bunch who aren't) But one thing we KNOW, is that whatever contrived beliefs you have of any of his dealings you are WRONG. He is honest and has more personal integrity in his little finger than you have in your entire body. Go be an entertainment attorney, or sue him for his success or just go write your own shit. I'm certain he would never attack your adopted cases or whatever it is you do, since you have such disdain for undercover operatives, HOWEVER, without the ATF U/C program, there would be NO ATF. Especially since you new world big thinkers think its somehow prudent for us to shift to intelligence gathering............as if the CIA,FBI, DIA, DOD, DEA, NSA and all of the intelligence driven agency's cant get it done w/o us. How many violent criminals have the aforementioned agency's put behind bars?

I'm still here and you still don't have a real name. Send your complaint to Hollywoods Internal Affiars then. I'm still waiting. Madea, thanks for looking out but someone got butt hurt and thats all this is. Entertaining though. Maybe I can turn this into a TV show!?

[Jay A. Dobyns]

I'm still here and you still don't have a real name. Send your complaint to Hollywoods Internal Affiars then. I'm still waiting. Madea, thanks for looking out but someone got butt hurt and thats all this is. Entertaining though. Maybe I can turn this into a TV show!?

Disarm with humor, deflect and distract. Nice UC tactics Jay.

Misrepreseneting rights availability to gain access to the idea/concept , not to steal the idea, but to procure the informational advantage of available opportunities, competition and market interests is theft, nontheless. Its so common, but still regarded as highly unethical. You had an attorney representing on these matters yet never referred the Producer there, because you had no intentions of doing legitimate business. Perhaps as a UC, lying and deceiving is acceptable and certainly so easy for you thats its second nature.

IA would not be concerned with this as its not ATF business. The Producers Guild, Writers Guild, Network Business Affairs Executives and Literary Agents however are concerned with complaints of this nature, but thank you so much for that referral and address information to Washington DC.

It may appear that Hollywood loves undercovers and whistleblowers, which they do, because they make great movies, but as people they are despised, for the same reason - both have used untrustworthy tactics.

My suggestion to make your life right is to seek win-win solutions. Win-lose is for the football field and in life, when you adopt win-lose, the lose part will come back to bite you in the ass.

Have a nice life or not, your choice.

[RobbG]

Disarm with humor, deflect and distract. Nice UC tactics Jay.

Misrepreseneting rights availability to gain access to the idea/concept , not to steal the idea, but to procure the informational advantage of available opportunities, competition and market interests is theft, nontheless. Its so common, but still regarded as highly unethical. You had an attorney representing on these matters yet never referred the Producer there, because you had no intentions of doing legitimate business. Perhaps as a UC, lying and deceiving is acceptable and certainly so easy for you thats its second nature.

IA would not be concerned with this as its not ATF business. The Producers Guild, Writers Guild, Network Business Affairs Executives and Literary Agents however are concerned with complaints of this nature, but thank you so much for that referral and address information to Washington DC.

It may appear that Hollywood loves undercovers and whistleblowers, which they do, because they make great movies, but as people they are despised, for the same reason - both have used untrustworthy tactics.

My suggestion to make your life right is to seek win-win solutions. Win-lose is for the football field and in life, when you adopt win-lose, the lose part will come back to bite you in the ass.

Have a nice life or not, your choice.

[Jay A. Dobyns]

This is Jay Dobyns. I have a real name. I live in Tucson, Arizona. Where is Anywhere USA?

I have not been participating much on this site since I’m super occupied stealing great ideas from people in Hollywood. My trick is to get people to just give me their concepts with no strings attached. If they try to get me to sign something called an NDA I simply refuse. Once I have scammed them, I plagiarize their work, call it my own and if I get called out I simply state that I don’t understand how the entertainment business works. It’s a thieving way to do business but Hollywood is a harsh land. I simply cannot survive there on my own and absolutely have to steal from some guy or gal who pretends to know what I am about and how my world works. After all some Ivy-Leaguer surely knows more about what I do than I do.

It’s a great way for uncreative loser’s without a thought or idea of their own to get ahead. You probably saw me at one of the festivals in Canne or Sundance or Tribecca promoting the work I conned off some hard working producer or writer and that is what tipped you. I knew the night I had dinner at Mr. Chow’s with DiNero, Pachino, Clooney, Pitt, DiCaprio and Meryl Streep I was being way too conspicuous.

Damn you RobbG!!! I was well on my way to becoming the next Denzel Washington or Steven Spielberg. You do know that Star Wars was my idea right? I was on the verge of an Oscar or Emmy until you blew me up!

What I suggest you do is take your allegation to the proper place. Compile your documentation and evidence and address it to Assistant Director Julie Torres, ATF Internal Affairs, 99 NewYork Avenue, Washington, DC 20226. That way it becomes a formal allegation.

IA will then contact you for an interview and gather any additional information needed to help prove your case. Then they will interview all of your sources to confirm your allegations and validate what you are saying. Once they have their information they will interview me. I’ll probably crack under the pressure and give it all up.

It is really the only legit way for you to proceed since none of the executives at ATF pay attention to this site, or so they say. You want justice then go get it. This is how you do it in my world.

Trust me on this. If what you have is real, ATF’s IA can’t wait to get their hands on it and drive it up my ass. I’ll be waiting.

If you have any testosterone in you you’ll contact me and we can figure this out together. Until then (which will be never) have a nice life.

PS: I don’t represent ATF in any world,outside or inside. I don’t represent any other person, just me. I’m not the“good guy”, never claimed that, never will. Those who know me know I’m not. I am no one’s Knight in Shining Armor. I’m not a hero. Definitely no poster boy. I am handling my business and taking up for myself and if that benefits someone, somehow in some way then so be it. My agenda is to get my life made right and in doing so if I call out the corruption then that will be ATF’s cost of doing business. Maybe in your opinion I am damaging ATF’s reputation and the hardworking men and women who work here. The reality is that ATF management has crushed our reputation with corruption and the agents and employees have had enough of getting pissed on and told that it’s raining.

Re: all the previous posts, I'm amazed by the following:

how quick to assume that my post originated from Management ...its not.

how quick to blame management for something that they were not involved in

how slow to defend Dobyns conduct or his integrity

how thoughtless...you are all missing the point.

Dobyns is the poster boy for exposing the unprofessional conduct and dishonesty of management and yet while representing ATF in the outside world, engaged in the very same behavior, entirely through his own actions. Dobyns has again damaged ATFs reputation and all the hardworking men and women who work there. Are you not at all concerned about that? The producers' mistake was wanting to believe his explanation of a misunderstanding and believing in Dobyns' own self generated "I'm the good guy" hype.

RobbG

• Group:Members
• Posts:2
• Joined:26-May 12
• Locationanywhere USA

Posted 26 May 2012 - 02:55 PM

Hello,

Allegations from Los Angeles indicate Dobyns knowingly lied to a Producer about his TV rights to obtain intellectual property.
Dobyns received the outline for a possible TV show and was then asked to sign a standard agreement of release (an NDA) which he declined to sign stating he was mistaken and that he was already consulting on a TV show and they had his TV rights.

He lied, he stole, he covered his lie with another lie.

Months later, the Producer found out that Dobyns had conceived, written, registered a TV show and was in negotiations with a network at the very same time as the Producers inquiry. Dobyns remained in contact and at one point offered to help the Producer since he had numerous contacts in the UC world, which was just another ploy and manipulation to serve his own agenda.

When the Producer confronted him and acknowledged his show, he claimed ignorance of the business dealings of TV rights and the entertainment business .

All of the above statements can be verified with written documentation.

So, before believing the Dobyns' intentions and actions are honorable and for the benefit of others, take a second look.

RobbG.

[retired1811]

I agree with you that DOJ wants ATF to collapse on itself as does the NRA, many Republicans and now many Democrats. The budget appropriation language says money can not be used to transfer ATF functions to another agency but no where does it say that ATF must be an effective agency. Don't give them a director and make sure they only have enough money to slowly starve on. In times of cutbacks in the government they can wave that flag while nutting ATF.

[RobbG]

Re: all the previous posts, I'm amazed by the following:

how quick to assume that my post originated from Management ...its not.

how quick to blame management for something that they were not involved in

how slow to defend Dobyns conduct or his integrity

how thoughtless...you are all missing the point.

Dobyns is the poster boy for exposing the unprofessional conduct and dishonesty of management and yet while representing ATF in the outside world, engaged in the very same behavior, entirely through his own actions. Dobyns has again damaged ATFs reputation and all the hardworking men and women who work there. Are you not at all concerned about that? The producers' mistake was wanting to believe his explanation of a misunderstanding and believing in Dobyns' own self generated "I'm the good guy" hype.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

I have discussed with Kay how ATF management and CCO' tactics are used to break, destroy and demoralize Agents when misconduct and abuse is exposed. Quite frankly, she is EXACTLY right. If you review the tactics used in the Nazi death camps, you will see many similarities. I used to argue with Kay, HOWEVER, physical and mental torture solely designed to crush another human being, used to INTENTIONALLY cause a chilling effect is torture. DAD Gleysteen, Ms. Loos and many others have been quoted as using these tactics the maintain authority and prevent THROUGH FEAR, anyone from exposing them. Problem with the "THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES", (CURRENTLY BEING ESPOUSED BY MR. JONES ET AL)is that there will always be a right and wrong. There will always be those willing to take on bullies. Historically, bullys ALWAYS lose. We WILL NOT go away until no more AGENTS are attacked, No more managers are allowed to use ATF as a playground, until not ONE more Agent commits suicide because of the actions of this agency, and not ONE more family suffers at the hands of leaders who are SUPPOSED to be the good guys.

Admittedly Kay, I had to google Ilsa Koch. Maybe you ought not give ATF’s own “Bitch of Buchenwald” any ideas. Think of the tattooed lamps Jay’s carcass would yield. Anyway, let’s not forget that Jay just received a proposal for a 5 day suspension for having the audacity to point out John Torres’ misconduct. Does Julie Torres investigate John Torres? No she does not. Instead Jay is suspended for pointing out the misconduct.

You cannot make this shit up.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Jay has NOT retired. He is around. If they have pulled him from outlook its just a computer error. you can either reach out to him here, or send your email address to me and I will get it to him. Last I checked he was still in outlook. DOBYNS.

Where is Jay in all of this? Can't find him in Outlook. Did he retire?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

No attitude. We just hate for the sake of hating. I'm with retired and lovin it. John Torres Mr. Hollywood who has bullied those in Hollywood who wont buy his book or movie rights and has attempted to leverage his position for personal entertainment gain. Everybody is or at least should be accountable, just not for sport.

RobbG, you may notice that the frequent posters on this site are good at throwing rocks at other people but when a rock gets thrown at them than they get an attitude.

[retired1811]

RobbG, you may notice that the frequent posters on this site are good at throwing rocks at other people but when a rock gets thrown at them than they get an attitude.

[Retired and loving it]

Thank you for your input JT (John or Julie -- take your pick!!!)

Hello,

Allegations from Los Angeles indicate Dobyns knowingly lied to a Producer about his TV rights to obtain intellectual property.
Dobyns received the outline for a possible TV show and was then asked to sign a standard agreement of release (an NDA) which he declined to sign stating he was mistaken and that he was already consulting on a TV show and they had his TV rights.

He lied, he stole, he covered his lie with another lie.

Months later, the Producer found out that Dobyns had conceived, written, registered a TV show and was in negotiations with a network at the very same time as the Producers inquiry. Dobyns remained in contact and at one point offered to help the Producer since he had numerous contacts in the UC world, which was just another ploy and manipulation to serve his own agenda.

When the Producer confronted him and acknowledged his show, he claimed ignorance of the business dealings of TV rights and the entertainment business .

All of the above statements can be verified with written documentation.

So, before believing the Dobyns' intentions and actions are honorable and for the benefit of others, take a second look.

RobbG.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

You are a Moron. And yes this is my real name. First, you have no idea what you are talking about. Secondly, the agency is well aware and has investigated ALL of Dobyns dealings with book/TV/movie rights and he is/was fully in compliance. Go grind your personal axe somewhere else. Unless your his attorney, his wife or internal affairs, stop attacking line Agents for reaping the benefit of hard work. Especially when you just advance rumors. NEWS flash...............Dobyns aint the first, or the last ATF employee to market his/her successes. Jealousy's an ugly thing. Just be happy for him and everybody else who prospers. The walls are falling in on this Agency and all you can worry about is Dobyns??????

Hello,

Allegations from Los Angeles indicate Dobyns knowingly lied to a Producer about his TV rights to obtain intellectual property.
Dobyns received the outline for a possible TV show and was then asked to sign a standard agreement of release (an NDA) which he declined to sign stating he was mistaken and that he was already consulting on a TV show and they had his TV rights.

He lied, he stole, he covered his lie with another lie.

Months later, the Producer found out that Dobyns had conceived, written, registered a TV show and was in negotiations with a network at the very same time as the Producers inquiry. Dobyns remained in contact and at one point offered to help the Producer since he had numerous contacts in the UC world, which was just another ploy and manipulation to serve his own agenda.

When the Producer confronted him and acknowledged his show, he claimed ignorance of the business dealings of TV rights and the entertainment business .

All of the above statements can be verified with written documentation.

So, before believing the Dobyns' intentions and actions are honorable and for the benefit of others, take a second look.

RobbG.

[RobbG]

Hello,

Allegations from Los Angeles indicate Dobyns knowingly lied to a Producer about his TV rights to obtain intellectual property.
Dobyns received the outline for a possible TV show and was then asked to sign a standard agreement of release (an NDA) which he declined to sign stating he was mistaken and that he was already consulting on a TV show and they had his TV rights.

He lied, he stole, he covered his lie with another lie.

Months later, the Producer found out that Dobyns had conceived, written, registered a TV show and was in negotiations with a network at the very same time as the Producers inquiry. Dobyns remained in contact and at one point offered to help the Producer since he had numerous contacts in the UC world, which was just another ploy and manipulation to serve his own agenda.

When the Producer confronted him and acknowledged his show, he claimed ignorance of the business dealings of TV rights and the entertainment business .

All of the above statements can be verified with written documentation.

So, before believing the Dobyns' intentions and actions are honorable and for the benefit of others, take a second look.

RobbG.