1315 replies to this topic

[Doc Holiday]

Can anyone justify how the SAC from Ohio was removed for what has been described to me as a FULL ON MUTINY under HER watch by 2 SACs and a former member of the Ombudsman's office, is now a DAD. Isn't that just BEGGING for more Congressional oversight? Come on guys, we can do better. I mean we are not talking just a low popularity, or low level incompetence. We are talking a complete break down. What happens IF she continues to screw the pooch, complaints or allegations come in and that stuff comes out in discovery or during investigations. COME ON. We can do better.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Since the Church has done "the right thing" and removed the article from their website, I will not pile on since CLEARLY this was just more typical self promoting by Ms. Bouman. I will however share my disdain for Ms. Boumans self perception as a devout christian.

 

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against another". THAT would include covering up and protecting those who DO. Her reference to being virtually unsupported and she PERSONALLY attacked good and decent human beings from her bully pulpit, and then REVELING in her public profiles about doing so does NOT model any christian behavior I have been taught. Throughout my case, no less than 10 ATF and DOJ attorneys have filed motions or had input in HER case.

 

She has repeatedly created and/or participated in creating vile narratives against employees EVEN WHEN SHE KNEW THEM TO BE FALSE. She knowingly and aggressively manipulated information she knew to be damaging to her circle of managers.

 

I found it completely sickening that she somehow martyred herself because she was a new parent. NEWS FLASH RACHEL, I had 5 yes 5 children in my house when you made a formal settlement offer to me and then reneged.

 

So again. The church that published the article seems to in fact be practicing what they preach by removing the article. And thereby clearly publicly refuting Ms. Boumans assertion that she understands or lives the life of a christian.

[abteilung]

You make a very valid point.  I guess that at the very least the Church;s writer was a usual idiot for Bouman.  The Church should have done some due diligence, but the fact remains that the ultimate evil was done by an ATF official.

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

Shame on this Church.  Do you have any legal recourse against them, or is it not worth the effort?  Even an ATF SES, with their limited intelligence, can figure out that the agent in question is you.  You may be a public figure now, but it appears there is malice intended here.

I would hope that upstanding ATF agents, past and present, contact this Church and condemn them for this. 

 

If this Church thinks political courage means sticking it to an ordinary agent, then this is no church that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.  Courage means standing up to the powerful.

I get your point fully but I really don't think it was the church.  I have to give them the benefit of the doubt for who they are and what they represent.  I don't know their leadership or congregation.  I want to believe in them.  I believe the church and their magazine have Godly intent.  I believe the article was designed as an inspirational story for women in their church.  They got scammed by a professional liar who hides behind her legal credentials.  Bouman used the forum the church's magazine provided to her to and did what she did at ATF, she lied.  Of course they are responsible for what they publish and the article should have been researched before going to print.  I blame ATF and DOJ much more for empowering her to do all the damage she did to agents and employees under the protection of their one-sided attorney/client privilege violations and letting her get away with it for years.  They way they held her out, made her feel that she could do whatever she wanted in the name of protecting them and then let her slip off with no accountability for all the dirty games she played - they empowered her to think that she could get away with making statements like this.  If I could I would ask that church to pray not for me, but for the truth to be revealed.  That has been my prayer.  I have full faith in God and the judge that it will be.  Then they can decided for themselves how they feel about Bouman's comments in their magazine.  She could have, and should have, given her interview, stated that she worked at ATF under difficult times and left it at that.  No one would have noticed or complained.  She chose to refer to Vince and I and tried to use what she she did to us to make herself appear righteous.   She twisted the facts all around and spun them to her benefit - some things never change.

[abteilung]

Before I start, I've said before and I'll say again, I take no pride in being a flawed Christian.  I believe in God and Jesus and fall short of who I should be in their eyes every day but...

 

You can run Rachael Bouman, but you can't hide.  The only way this author would written the things she did about you is if she was fed them by you.  I am going to set the record straight.

 

http://www.thebanner...political-world

Three CRC Women Bring Their Faith to Washington D.C.’s Political World

"...Then, in 2008, Bouman, by this time a mother and active member of Silver Spring Christian Reformed Church, was given another assignment—this one dealing with a retired ATF agent who had infiltrated the gang Hells Angels. The plaintiff was deceptive and used intimidation to try to persuade Bouman in the case.  These cases were the biggest in ATF’s history, and Bouman managed them with little support. It took a toll on her. “I tried to make sense of where God was in it all and why I was there,” she said."

 

Let me address your comments and I do so under the eyes of God himself:

 

"...Bouman, by this time a mother and active member of Silver Spring Christian Reformed Church..."  My wife is a mother and a dedicated Christian.  You supported the ATF assault on me when my home was attacked by arsonists and burned to the ground in an arson in an attempt to murder my wife and kids.   You sat through her deposition in silence while she was grilled by your DOJ lawyer-partner regarding what might be my motivation to kill my family by fire; our alleged failed relationship; how often we had sex before and after the arson; etc.  When her deposition was done you left her weeping in the interview room and could be heard giggling in the hallway outside as you checked your Blackberry messages.  Your Christian principles were no where in sight that day.

 

"The Plaintiff was deceptive..." I am that Plaintiff you mention.  Where was my deception Rachael?  My case was so overwhelming in facts and evidence that you, as the lead attorney, told Steve Martin and others ATF executives that I had been treated bitterly wrong and corruptly and that ATF needed to settle the case!  You went along to get along and participated in the defense of government corruption with all your energy knowing that it was wrong.

 

Why did you not discuss with the author your withholding the most critical evidence in my case from me?  That is an interesting story.  You sat through deposition after deposition letting ATF witnesses testify under oath that there was no attempt to frame me as the arsonist and attempted murderer while YOU(!) concealed the very evidence of the illegal audio recordings made of me by them.  I only got them by accident, not through your ethics or morals that is for damn sure.

 

How about doing everything within your power to make sure I never saw the conclusions of ATF's internal investigation of the events - the single most damaging document to ATF's defense and the single most powerful document to support my case.  If you would have succeed in denying me the tapes and report - you would have guaranteed an ATF win using corrupt tactics that are likely criminal.

 

"...and used intimidation to try and persuade Bouman in the case."   I intimidated you and tried to persuade you?!?  OMG!  You sat there knowing all the facts and evidence, having all the reports that proved what I claimed was true, and allowed ATF and DOJ to attempt to force my resignation and abandon my complaint.  That is intimidation and you are a hypocrite.

 

Maybe you are thinking of the courtroom day when some of the most damaging testimony to your defense was presented and I looked directly into your eyes - You knew that I knew that you you had protected and covered up that information.  You ran to your lawyer partner for cover but you knew exactly what that was.  It was not intimidation.  You were caught dirty and you were ashamed to even look at me.

 

"These cases were the biggest in ATF’s history...".  I am sorry but your self inflated importance got the best of you here.  The other case you talk about is against Agent Vince Cefalu and they are no way, no how the biggest in ATF history.  The most embarrassing - maybe.  The most corruptly defended - likely.  Some of the most unethical conduct ever seen in a federal law enforcement agency and defended by you - I believe yes.

 

"...and Bouman managed them with little support."  You had at least 10 attorneys and staff working with you, following your lead, using strategies and tactics that constitute judicial misconduct.

 

"It took a toll on her."  I bet it did.  Harboring perjury.  Concealing evidence.  Lying to the court.  Defending corruption that you knew to be illegal.  All under your halo of a Christian government attorney.  What about the victims of your corrupt practices like me, my wife and kids, the countless other agents and employees whose careers and reputations you destroyed in the name of your true God, ATF;s managing executives.  We are the ones who have suffered and paid the price for your unwillingness to be honest.

 

“I tried to make sense of where God was in it all and why I was there,” she said."  That is what me and you have in common.  I've asked myself and God the same question.

 

Last question the author should have asked you - Why after leading these most important cases for ATF in the prime of your career did you chose to leave ATF?  Was it because you got found out and HAD to go?  Maybe some other issues?  Answer that one with some honesty please.

 

You took what was surely designed with the very best intent to inspire and shine light on the glory of God and turned it into a hypocritical embarrassment to the author the the publication.  Shame on you - AGAIN!  If one single thing I said here is false, then sue me.  You already have once.  You are an attorney.  But be ready to defend your denials because I can 100% prove my claims before a judge or God.  Explain to Him how protecting and harboring lies fits into your attempt to now portray yourself as a crusader for truth and justice.

 

If you have been a victim of the Executive Staff backed AgentHaters attorneys in the Office of Cheif Counsel - please join in.

Shame on this Church.  Do you have any legal recourse against them, or is it not worth the effort?  Even an ATF SES, with their limited intelligence, can figure out that the agent in question is you.  You may be a public figure now, but it appears there is malice intended here.

I would hope that upstanding ATF agents, past and present, contact this Church and condemn them for this. 

 

If this Church thinks political courage means sticking it to an ordinary agent, then this is no church that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.  Courage means standing up to the powerful.

[GoodWorker]

She's no Christian.  She knows she was wrong, that's why she left.  She only wanted to quote a scripture to make her feel better due to all the unethical acts she did for ATF, let alone being a false prophet.  I quote Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (KJV)  That fits her to a tee, Jay.  Her saying she is a Christian makes others say "if that's how a Christian behaves, I don't want to be a part of it!"  

 

I too have been at the receiving end of Bouman's unethical dealings.  I wrote in a second formal complaint that the managers failed to abide by ATF Orders and what did she do, she ignored it, or she said it was previously investigated, which it was never investigated.  She did not accept and refer for investigation what management failed to do.  I was livid.  I wrote a response back to her and still she refused to revise her Acceptance of Complaint document. She stated that the discipline document was previously investigated in the prior complaint.  However, it never was.  The only matters that can be investigated by DSZ are in the Acceptance of Complaint.  It specifically stated that "investigate only the claim identified in the enclosed acceptance letter."  How can they investigate something that was received after I filed a formal complaint.  I never put the discipline in my first formal complaint.  Obviously, since I received it after the fact!  Do you wanna know the reason why she did this?  It was because they failed to give me due process.  In the ATF Order, Discipline and Adverse Action, states what management is required to do.  I pointed this out in my complaint.  Of course, Bouman didn't want to investigate because management made a huge mistake.  They don't want to be held accountable for their actions.  

 

Again, my situation is nothing compared to all the lies and unethical acts done by Bouman to you, but she did it to me and I'm sure to many others.     

 

God will bring you Justice, Jay.  God already has the restoration and vindication in line.  He will restore all the years that were stolen by the enemy.  I have prayed for you and your family.  No one should've gone through what you and your family have gone through.  You will soon be vindicated by the Judge ruling in your favor.  I can't wait until that day comes to hear that and to just say, thank you God.  Thank you God for answering our prayers.  

Kudos to both of you for standing up and telling your story.  If you have not done it yet, you may want to have your attorneys ask the judge in your respective cases to direct ATF to provide you both with a copy of Bouman's Official Personnel File to include her disciplinary file.  This may shed some light on her credibility.

[Fedupwrkr]

Before i start, I've said before and I'll say again, I take no pride in being a flawed Christian.  I believe in God and Jesus and fall short of who I should be in their eyes every day but...

 

You can run Rachael Bouman, but you can't hide.  The only way this author would written the things she did about you is if she was fed them by you.  I am going to set the record straight.

 

http://www.thebanner...political-world

Three CRC Women Bring Their Faith to Washington D.C.’s Political World

"...Then, in 2008, Bouman, by this time a mother and active member of Silver Spring Christian Reformed Church, was given another assignment—this one dealing with a retired ATF agent who had infiltrated the gang Hells Angels. The plaintiff was deceptive and used intimidation to try to persuade Bouman in the case.  These cases were the biggest in ATF’s history, and Bouman managed them with little support. It took a toll on her. “I tried to make sense of where God was in it all and why I was there,” she said."

 

Let me address your comments and I do so under the eyes of God himself:

 

"...Bouman, by this time a mother and active member of Silver Spring Christian Reformed Church..."  My wife is a mother and a dedicated Christian.  You supported the ATF assault on me when my home was attacked by arsonsists and burned to the ground in an arson in an attempt to murder my wife and kids.   You sat through her depostion in silence while she was grilled by your DOJ lawyer-partner regarding what might be my motivation to kill my family by fire; our alleged failed relationship; how often we had sex before and after the arson; etc.  When her depostion was done you left her weeping in the interview room and could be heard giggling in the hallway outside as you checked your Blackberry messages.  Your Christian principles were no where in sight that day.

 

"The Plaintiff was deceptive..." I am that Plaintiff you mention.  Where was my deception Rachael?  My case was so overwhelming in facts and evidence that you, as the lead attorney, told Steve Martin and others ATF executives that I had been treated bitterly wrong and corruptly and that ATF needed to settle the case!  You went along to get along and participated in the defense of government corruption with all your energy knowing that it was wrong. 

 

Why did you not discuss with the author your withholding the most critical evidence in my case from me?  That is an interesting story.  You sat through depostion after deposition letting ATF witnesses testify under oath that there was no attempt to frame me as the arsonsist and attempted murderer while YOU(!) concealed the very evidence of the illegal audio recordings made of me by them.  I only got them by accident, not through your ethics or morals that is for damn sure. 

 

How about doing everything within your power to make sure I never saw the conclusions of ATF's internal investigation of the events - the single most damaging document to ATF's defense and the single most powerful document to support my case.  If you would have succeed in denying me the tapes and report - you would have guaranteed an ATF win using corrupt tactics that are likely criminal.

 

"...and used intimidation to try and persuade Bouman in the case."   I intimidated you and tried to persuade you?!?  OMG!  You sat there knowing all the facts and evidence, having all the reports that proved what I claimed was true, and allowed ATF and DOJ to attempt to force my resignation and abandon my complaint.  That is intimidation and you are a hypocrite.

 

Maybe you are thinking of the courtroom day when some of the most damaging testimony to your defense was presented and I looked directly into your eyes - You knew that I knew that you you had protected and covered up that information.  You ran to your lawyer partner for cover but you knew exactly what that was.  It was not intimidation.  You were caught dirty and you were ashamed to even look at me.

 

"These cases were the biggest in ATF’s history...".  I am sorry but your self inflated importance got the best of you here.  The other case you talk about is against Agent Vince Cefalu and they are no way, no how the biggest in ATF history.  The most embarrassing - maybe.  The most corruptly defended - likely.  Some of the most unethical conduct ever seen in a federal law enforcment agency and defended by you - I believe yes.

 

"...and Bouman managed them with little support."  You had at least 10 attorneys and staff working with you, following your lead, using stratatgies and tactics that constitue judicial misconduct.

 

"It took a toll on her."  I bet it did.  Harboring perjury.  Concealing evidence.  Lying to the court.  Defending corruption that you knew to be illegal.  All under your halo of a Christian govenrment attorney.  What about the victims of your corrupt practices like me, my wife and kids, the countless other agents and employees whose careers and reputations you destoyed in the name of your true God, ATF;s managing executives.  We are the ones who have suffered and paid the price for your unwillingness to be honest.

 

“I tried to make sense of where God was in it all and why I was there,” she said."  That is what me and you have in common.  I've asked myself and God the same question.

 

Last question the author should have asked you - Why after leading these most important cases for ATF in the prime of your career did you chose to leave ATF?  Was it because you got found out and HAD to go?  Maybe some other issues?  Answer that one with some honesty please.

 

You took what was surely designed with the very best intent to inspire and shine light on the glory of God and turned it into a hypocritcal embarassement to the author the the publication.  Shame on you - AGAIN!  If one single thing I said here is false, then sue me.  You already have once.  You are an attorney.  But be ready to defend your denials because I can 100% prove my claims before a judge or God.  Explain to Him how protecting and harboring lies fits into your attempt to now portray youself as a crusdader for truth and justice. 

 

If you have been a victim of the Executive Staff backed AgentHaters attorneys in the Office of Cheif Counsel - please join in.

She's no Christian.  She knows she was wrong, that's why she left.  She only wanted to quote a scripture to make her feel better due to all the unethical acts she did for ATF, let alone being a false prophet.  I quote Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (KJV)  That fits her to a tee, Jay.  Her saying she is a Christian makes others say "if that's how a Christian behaves, I don't want to be a part of it!"  

 

I too have been at the receiving end of Bouman's unethical dealings.  I wrote in a second formal complaint that the managers failed to abide by ATF Orders and what did she do, she ignored it, or she said it was previously investigated, which it was never investigated.  She did not accept and refer for investigation what management failed to do.  I was livid.  I wrote a response back to her and still she refused to revise her Acceptance of Complaint document. She stated that the discipline document was previously investigated in the prior complaint.  However, it never was.  The only matters that can be investigated by DSZ are in the Acceptance of Complaint.  It specifically stated that "investigate only the claim identified in the enclosed acceptance letter."  How can they investigate something that was received after I filed a formal complaint.  I never put the discipline in my first formal complaint.  Obviously, since I received it after the fact!  Do you wanna know the reason why she did this?  It was because they failed to give me due process.  In the ATF Order, Discipline and Adverse Action, states what management is required to do.  I pointed this out in my complaint.  Of course, Bouman didn't want to investigate because management made a huge mistake.  They don't want to be held accountable for their actions.  

 

Again, my situation is nothing compared to all the lies and unethical acts done by Bouman to you, but she did it to me and I'm sure to many others.     

 

God will bring you Justice, Jay.  God already has the restoration and vindication in line.  He will restore all the years that were stolen by the enemy.  I have prayed for you and your family.  No one should've gone through what you and your family have gone through.  You will soon be vindicated by the Judge ruling in your favor.  I can't wait until that day comes to hear that and to just say, thank you God.  Thank you God for answering our prayers.  

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

Before I start, I've said before and I'll say again, I take no pride in being a flawed Christian.  I believe in God and Jesus and fall short of who I should be in their eyes every day but...

 

You can run Rachael Bouman, but you can't hide.  The only way this author would written the things she did about you is if she was fed them by you.  I am going to set the record straight.

 

http://www.thebanner...political-world

Three CRC Women Bring Their Faith to Washington D.C.’s Political World

"...Then, in 2008, Bouman, by this time a mother and active member of Silver Spring Christian Reformed Church, was given another assignment—this one dealing with a retired ATF agent who had infiltrated the gang Hells Angels. The plaintiff was deceptive and used intimidation to try to persuade Bouman in the case.  These cases were the biggest in ATF’s history, and Bouman managed them with little support. It took a toll on her. “I tried to make sense of where God was in it all and why I was there,” she said."

 

Let me address your comments and I do so under the eyes of God himself:

 

"...Bouman, by this time a mother and active member of Silver Spring Christian Reformed Church..."  My wife is a mother and a dedicated Christian.  You supported the ATF assault on me when my home was attacked by arsonists and burned to the ground in an arson in an attempt to murder my wife and kids.   You sat through her deposition in silence while she was grilled by your DOJ lawyer-partner regarding what might be my motivation to kill my family by fire; our alleged failed relationship; how often we had sex before and after the arson; etc.  When her deposition was done you left her weeping in the interview room and could be heard giggling in the hallway outside as you checked your Blackberry messages.  Your Christian principles were no where in sight that day.

 

"The Plaintiff was deceptive..." I am that Plaintiff you mention.  Where was my deception Rachael?  My case was so overwhelming in facts and evidence that you, as the lead attorney, told Steve Martin and others ATF executives that I had been treated bitterly wrong and corruptly and that ATF needed to settle the case!  You went along to get along and participated in the defense of government corruption with all your energy knowing that it was wrong.

 

Why did you not discuss with the author your withholding the most critical evidence in my case from me?  That is an interesting story.  You sat through deposition after deposition letting ATF witnesses testify under oath that there was no attempt to frame me as the arsonist and attempted murderer while YOU(!) concealed the very evidence of the illegal audio recordings made of me by them.  I only got them by accident, not through your ethics or morals that is for damn sure.

 

How about doing everything within your power to make sure I never saw the conclusions of ATF's internal investigation of the events - the single most damaging document to ATF's defense and the single most powerful document to support my case.  If you would have succeed in denying me the tapes and report - you would have guaranteed an ATF win using corrupt tactics that are likely criminal.

 

"...and used intimidation to try and persuade Bouman in the case."   I intimidated you and tried to persuade you?!?  OMG!  You sat there knowing all the facts and evidence, having all the reports that proved what I claimed was true, and allowed ATF and DOJ to attempt to force my resignation and abandon my complaint.  That is intimidation and you are a hypocrite.

 

Maybe you are thinking of the courtroom day when some of the most damaging testimony to your defense was presented and I looked directly into your eyes - You knew that I knew that you you had protected and covered up that information.  You ran to your lawyer partner for cover but you knew exactly what that was.  It was not intimidation.  You were caught dirty and you were ashamed to even look at me.

 

"These cases were the biggest in ATF’s history...".  I am sorry but your self inflated importance got the best of you here.  The other case you talk about is against Agent Vince Cefalu and they are no way, no how the biggest in ATF history.  The most embarrassing - maybe.  The most corruptly defended - likely.  Some of the most unethical conduct ever seen in a federal law enforcement agency and defended by you - I believe yes.

 

"...and Bouman managed them with little support."  You had at least 10 attorneys and staff working with you, following your lead, using strategies and tactics that constitute judicial misconduct.

 

"It took a toll on her."  I bet it did.  Harboring perjury.  Concealing evidence.  Lying to the court.  Defending corruption that you knew to be illegal.  All under your halo of a Christian government attorney.  What about the victims of your corrupt practices like me, my wife and kids, the countless other agents and employees whose careers and reputations you destroyed in the name of your true God, ATF;s managing executives.  We are the ones who have suffered and paid the price for your unwillingness to be honest.

 

“I tried to make sense of where God was in it all and why I was there,” she said."  That is what me and you have in common.  I've asked myself and God the same question.

 

Last question the author should have asked you - Why after leading these most important cases for ATF in the prime of your career did you chose to leave ATF?  Was it because you got found out and HAD to go?  Maybe some other issues?  Answer that one with some honesty please.

 

You took what was surely designed with the very best intent to inspire and shine light on the glory of God and turned it into a hypocritical embarrassment to the author the the publication.  Shame on you - AGAIN!  If one single thing I said here is false, then sue me.  You already have once.  You are an attorney.  But be ready to defend your denials because I can 100% prove my claims before a judge or God.  Explain to Him how protecting and harboring lies fits into your attempt to now portray yourself as a crusader for truth and justice.

 

If you have been a victim of the Executive Staff backed AgentHaters attorneys in the Office of Cheif Counsel - please join in.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

When three Congressmen and a Senator are putting their questions in writing they are not fooling around.  This is no doubt a serious problem.  As always the Jones-Brandon-Turk team just can't get it right under any circumstance.

 

A little hint Mr. Jones, if you just tell the truth then you don't have to remember the lies.

 

Mark my words, when Judge Allegra issues his ruling on my lawsuit the questions and allegations in the below letter are peanuts compared to what I am hopeing will be revealed.

 

https://www.document...16-14-2013.html

 

Also, happy birthday Vince Cefalu.  I find delight in knowing that nearly every manager, executive, attorney or agent who set out to ruin you is retired, resigned or removed while you are still in place.  That is a victory in itself.

Thanks for the B day wish. Is it any surprise that the more MR. JONES changes things, the more they remain the same. Take a look at the OIG report of 2005. See how many improvements or just changes have occurred since then. Pay particular attention to the disparity in discipline for GS-14s and above. Not my report folks its the DOJ Inspector Generals. MIGHT just explain why Mr. Jones is being directed to answer MORE questions about this VERY subject in the letter above.

 

http://www.justice.g...e0509/index.htm

 

Also may explain why the Ombudsman's office has been gutted and NEW FAAP members are being solicited.I personally knew Henry Lescault and members of his staff and they just got to frustrated at the push-back, and left.

[Doc Holiday]

Can anyone shed light on why the Baltimore SAC and ASAC were so hastily removed? And why acting SAC and ASAC were put in place? The rumor mill is frought with peril. Sounds extremely serious.

[GoodWorker]

http://m.jsonline.com/259595911.htm


And yet another letter challenging exactly what we have all been asking about musical SACs and DADs. Except this time they are asking Mr. JONES DIRECTLY why he misled Congress.

Does anyone see the similarities in the ATF Scandals and those at the VA?  The VA moved the female SES from Chicago to Phoenix and the trail of deceptive practices followed her there.  The low level government employees are afraid to tell the truth because they know government officials will make their lives miserable for telling the truth or they could be fired.  It is sad that our vets are being victimized by government employees who get bonuses for "efficiency" while our war heroes have to deal with PTSD and other issues.  I feel very sorry for those vets in the Phoenix area because now they have to deal with poor or no medical service as well as firearms that ATF allowed to walk.  When are bosses going to be held accountable?

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

When three Congressmen and a Senator are putting their questions in writing they are not fooling around.  This is no doubt a serious problem.  As always the Jones-Brandon-Turk team just can't get it right under any circumstance.

 

A little hint Mr. Jones, if you just tell the truth then you don't have to remember the lies.

 

Mark my words, when Judge Allegra issues his ruling on my lawsuit the questions and allegations in the below letter are peanuts compared to what I am hopeing will be revealed.

 

https://www.document...16-14-2013.html

 

Also, happy birthday Vince Cefalu.  I find delight in knowing that nearly every manager, executive, attorney or agent who set out to ruin you is retired, resigned or removed while you are still in place.  That is a victory in itself.

[Doc Holiday]

http://m.jsonline.com/259595911.htm


And yet another letter challenging exactly what we have all been asking about musical SACs and DADs. Except this time they are asking Mr. JONES DIRECTLY why he misled Congress.

[Doc Holiday]

Can anyone shed light on why the Baltimore SAC and ASAC were so hastily removed? And why acting SAC and ASAC were put in place? The rumor mill is frought with peril. Sounds extremely serious.

[abteilung]

An active agent just told me the other day that ATF has made YET another change with regards to the BDU's/uniform contract.  Now, if ATF can't get clothing right, how can the American taxpayer expect ATF to do anything right?

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

It is sad to hear people, (ATF AGENT) Resenting that our Agency may truly be on its last leg. I pray that the collective wisdom of our leadership trumps the growing opinions of the field, Congress and the American public. Keep fighting. Too much has been sacrificed by to many to create one of the most effective and storied Law Enforcement agencies in the history of American Law Enforcement. Do not let Bureaucratic paralysis of our leadership destroy what OUR blood, sweat and tears have created.

I think the reason why retired agents continue to post is because they truely want to see this agency restored to what it was for us - not perfect, but rewarding and relevant - not what it has become for those still on the job and the new agents.  They deserve better than what they are getting.

[Doc Holiday]

It is sad to hear people, (ATF AGENT) Resenting that our Agency may truly be on its last leg. I pray that the collective wisdom of our leadership trumps the growing opinions of the field, Congress and the American public. Keep fighting. Too much has been sacrificed by to many to create one of the most effective and storied Law Enforcement agencies in the history of American Law Enforcement. Do not let Bureaucratic paralysis of our leadership destroy what OUR blood, sweat and tears have created.

[abteilung]

Opps, I meant $8000 a YEAR.  Not a month.

[abteilung]

Heisenberg:

You're absolutely right about the INS/USCS merger.  I had friends in both agencies and even a cousin in Customs OI.  It WAS awful with the INS bosses running ICE.

However, eventually, those bosses have retired.  Most, if not all, of the Legacy INS agents were put through the proper training [well, maybe not that former secretary of a District Director who got her 1811 status with the alleged stroke of a pen].  ICE/HSI isn't perfect -- far from it.  But I think the public perception of ICE/HSI is a whole lot better than ATF's.

And perception is everything.

 

I wouldn't advocate a merger.  Who would want to merge with ATF?

 

Instead, create a Firearms Regulatory Administration with mostly IOI's.  Have about 500 agents nationwide to investigate FFL burglaries and FFL criminal conduct.

 

Let the Chemical Safety Board or the Department of Transportation regulate explosives [after all, the DOT "table of distances" is the rulebook for explosives storage].

 

Any federal agency, from FBI to DEA to HSI can run gun cases, home invasions, OMO, drug cases.  And if the cases don't meet their standards, there are 17,000 police agencies in this country.  States have their own Bureaus of Investigation, AG's offices of investigation, Bureaus of Narcotics investigations, and so on. 

 

As for arson, I agree with Justice Scalia.  Most arsons don't rise to the level of federal importance.  Sending a CFI to a bodega fire is pretty silly.  When a major fire occurs, let the US Fire Administration send a "go team" like the NTSB to help the locals.  ATF has a bunch of full time NRT guys who hang out at home or a remote office and go out to a major fire maybe once a month.  I know a CFI who lives in "A" pay locality state but who is assigned, on paper, to the "B" pay locality state, thus getting an extra $8000 or so a month.  And this CFI goes to his "office" in the higher pay area maybe a couple times a year????  $150,000 a year to go to 10-15 fires?

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

New FAAP huh?  If Jones and Brandon just keep replacing the members and changing the rules eventually they will find the right combination of participants to tell them what they want to hear.  Then all will be well and their sensitive self-confidence can be restored.  They've surrounded themselves with executives who say, "Don't listen to those agents.  What do they know?  We have the big picture.  We work in headquarters."  Their disconnect with the reality-views of those in the field has never been wider than it is now.

 

Two years ago they tried the same thing but made the mistake of not manning the committee with yes men.  So, try again. 

 

http://www.examiner....-source-alleges

 

If you put a blind monkey in front of a typewriter eventually he will produce a perfect rendition of the King James bible with no typos.  The odds say no but there is a chance.  Jones and Brandon, reworking that combintation of members.  As astronomical as they may be, the odds say at some point in time you'll be told what you want to hear.

[Heisenberg]

Let's be clear here folks: The INS was merged with Customs to form ICE, or HSI, or whatever they want to call themselves at the moment, but INS guys did NOT get hurt in this merger. Talk to any legacy Customs guys in thay shop and you'll get an earful. Many of the bufoons who ran INS moved into more powerful and prestigious spots in the merger, so to use the plight as a cautionary tale would not really apply. It's truly sad when guys who never even graduated CITP can merge into an investigative agency with guys who did and have the upper hand.

If you really think that HSI is a great agency and one without leadership issues, I have a nice bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. I agree that you don't hear the same from the FBI or the U.S. Marshals. Maybe they are doing something right, or maybe they are just better at handling their dirty laundry.

Remember, the FBI is an excepted service agency. If you are a cancer, they fire you. If you are a problem child, they fire you and if you are a whistleblower, they fire you. In fact, until recently, FBI, NSA, DIA and other national security related agencies were EXEMPT from the Whistleblower Protection Act.

We have a problem. Many unqualified and untalented people have saturated our upper ranks. They did so while may squared away agents dug in and worked cases. As time passed the balance shifted and we now have too many crappy leaders than we can successfully hide. Now we are paying the price, and we will CONTINUE to pay the price until our working agents become as aggressive in promoting as our base touchers. It's math. No two ways around it. Those people that we hid in the corners of HQ, FIGs and DOO spots have re-emerged as GS-15s and above and now they are calling the shots.

While you worked OMO cases, of home invasions, or wiretaps, they drank lattes, and more importantly brought one back for their boss. While you broke your ass, they kissed all the ass they could. While you worked hard, they worked harder at avoiding work. Now many of them get to call the shots, and it's OUR fault, becuase we could have stepped up.

If good people don't try to promote and move up, we're DONE, but a merger isn't the answer. Our REAL agents, who have always done more with less are.

[GoodWorker]

History repeats itself.  Almost a generation ago, INS was going through the same mess.  Maybe nothing would have been done if there wasn't a 9/11, but the bottom line is that something was done.  In one sentence, Congress passed a law "[T]he Immigration and Naturalization Service.... is abolished."

INS had its share of incompetent and/or corrupt bosses.  Rank-and-file who belonged to the "personality cult" of a particular INS boss were protected, no matter how much they screwed up.  Meanwhile, some employees could do nothing right in the eyes of the bosses and were regularly beaten and abused my management.  The only difference was that INS didn't move around the screw-ups in management nearly as much.

It's leading to sheer madness to discuss what needs to be done next.  Another FAAP?  Fire this boss?  Move this SAC to HQ and move a Bureau Chief out?  Stop discussions.  God forbid you ever get diagnosed with cancer, but how long do you discuss what can be done with your cancer specialist?  Years?  Before you know it, the cancer kills you. 

There is a disease infecting ATF, and the disease needs to be surgically removed, amputated even.

 

Sure, the government needs an agency that regulates the industry.  DHS has its version from the old INS.  It's called the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services.  Just as CIS is "customer friendly" for aliens, let's have a firearms regulatory agency that is FFL friendly.

 

As for criminal cases, if the FBI doesn't want to prosecute certain gun crimes or explosives cases, or DEA doesn't want to do a certain street narcotics case, why do we presently have a "minor league" federal agency that picks up those scraps?  Not every criminal case needs to be federal.  Let the states and the locals do more cases.  They can't be worse than, say, WonderBoy's group in a Large Northeastern City, which comes to work at 10AM, has a two hour lunch, then afternoon lattes, and then heads home at 4PM, patting themselves on the back on the way home.  All while making $140k a year.

I have to agree with the above observations.  The FBI on the east coast is doing big cigarette cases, the FBI has been doing violent gun crimes longer than ATF has been, and the DEA has done more big international gun trafficking cases than ATF recently.  HSI is doing great cases and ATF is just an afterthought when the other agencies need a nexus done.  Oh yeah we can do a trace too.  Our leadership has let ATF become the scrub on the bench. We are better off taking the experience we have left and sending half of us to HSI and the other half to the DEA.  Hopefully our "foster home" agency will make our poor performing leadership straighten up or ship out,  Either way, something has to change.

[abteilung]

History repeats itself.  Almost a generation ago, INS was going through the same mess.  Maybe nothing would have been done if there wasn't a 9/11, but the bottom line is that something was done.  In one sentence, Congress passed a law "[T]he Immigration and Naturalization Service.... is abolished."

INS had its share of incompetent and/or corrupt bosses.  Rank-and-file who belonged to the "personality cult" of a particular INS boss were protected, no matter how much they screwed up.  Meanwhile, some employees could do nothing right in the eyes of the bosses and were regularly beaten and abused my management.  The only difference was that INS didn't move around the screw-ups in management nearly as much.

It's leading to sheer madness to discuss what needs to be done next.  Another FAAP?  Fire this boss?  Move this SAC to HQ and move a Bureau Chief out?  Stop discussions.  God forbid you ever get diagnosed with cancer, but how long do you discuss what can be done with your cancer specialist?  Years?  Before you know it, the cancer kills you. 

There is a disease infecting ATF, and the disease needs to be surgically removed, amputated even.

 

Sure, the government needs an agency that regulates the industry.  DHS has its version from the old INS.  It's called the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services.  Just as CIS is "customer friendly" for aliens, let's have a firearms regulatory agency that is FFL friendly.

 

As for criminal cases, if the FBI doesn't want to prosecute certain gun crimes or explosives cases, or DEA doesn't want to do a certain street narcotics case, why do we presently have a "minor league" federal agency that picks up those scraps?  Not every criminal case needs to be federal.  Let the states and the locals do more cases.  They can't be worse than, say, WonderBoy's group in a Large Northeastern City, which comes to work at 10AM, has a two hour lunch, then afternoon lattes, and then heads home at 4PM, patting themselves on the back on the way home.  All while making $140k a year.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

So, it's round 2 for the Field Agent Advisory Panels or FAAP. Management has got a lot of balls just asking for this panel to re-form again. They didn't listen to one cotton-pickin' thing the first FAAP said, and then treated the panel like it was some unforeseen uprising from the field agents. Management, you created it and then covered your ears.

 

By begging for input and then discarding the input and the FAAP like it was trash, how many agents do you think will join it this time? WAIT JUST A MINUTE! Maybe that was the plan all along...to say that a second panel was created and that nobody wanted to join? That's not too bad of an idea HQ, you just have to get the field agents to forget all about the first one. Good luck with that!

 

And while you're coming up with the next big hoax FAAP, you may just want to prepare a little bit for the #1 question that you asses are going to be asked...WHY DID A GOOD PORTION OF THE HQ ADMIN GET MOVED BACK TO THE FIELD AND JUST HOW MUCH DID THAT COST THE BUREAU? I hear it coming from my old field division everyday. It's a question that is even repeated in my retirement circles. It's 2014 and ATF is hoping for a better budget and you clowns spend it on moving HQ admin around. That's shameful. Period.

 

And while the DC Moving and Storage company is getting paid $$$, I know an agent that's waiting on approval to buy a new set of windshield wipers for their G-ride...

We were all hopeful that the ORIGINAL FAAP may encourage changes. Clearly those selected DID NOT provide Director Jones with the appropriate amount of "yes sir, everything is wonderful". DD Brandons initial publication of the FAAPs findings and recommendations was encouraging. Right up and until Chief Counsels Office cried out loud that they were one of the TOP problems plaguing the Bureau.

 

THEN the findings specific to Chief Counsels acts, were removed from public view. A true leader embraces appropriate and professional decent. When you have hundreds if not thousands challenging HQs actions, you probably have a problem. Don't take MY word for it, as I have been labeled a malcontent,

(KEEPING IN MIND EVERY DIRECTOR, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, ADFO, SAC AND ASAC WHO HAS BEEN IN MY CHAIN OF COMMAND SINCE I FILED MY FIRST COMPLAINT HAS BEEN RUN OFF IN DISGRACE OR ENDED THEIR CAREERS PREMATURELY DO TO POOR LEADERSHIP), (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF AD GLEYSTEEN WHO IS NOT LONG FOR THIS AGENCY WHEN THE PROTECTIVE ORDERS ARE LIFTED IN MY CASE).

 

Shouldn't someone ask, WHY IS HE STILL HERE AND THEY ARE ALL GONE? Its because I have Lived and Breathed ATF criminal investigations for almost 30 years, and have loved this Agency and its agents for EVERYONE of those years. NOT 2 1/2 yrs.

 

Read you own surveys since you became acting Director. The key word here is YOUR survey. Trying to bully the field hasn't worked thus far. Maybe its time to LISTEN. The FAAP wasn't formed to puppet our successes. We all KNOW what our successes are. It was formed to allegedly correct the PROBLEMS hurting our Bureau. This is why a STRONG law enforcement Director and not just attorneys are needed to run this outfit. With all due respect, the fact that Mr. Jones may have crossed paths with a few ATF cases as an AUSA and may have seen in a passing glance a couple of ATF cases as a U.S. Attorney, does NOT make him the authority on running ATF. This is compounded by his unwillingness to engage those who may not agree with him.

[Hilltopper]

So, it's round 2 for the Field Agent Advisory Panels or FAAP. Management has got a lot of balls just asking for this panel to re-form again. They didn't listen to one cotton-pickin' thing the first FAAP said, and then treated the panel like it was some unforeseen uprising from the field agents. Management, you created it and then covered your ears.

 

By begging for input and then discarding the input and the FAAP like it was trash, how many agents do you think will join it this time? WAIT JUST A MINUTE! Maybe that was the plan all along...to say that a second panel was created and that nobody wanted to join? That's not too bad of an idea HQ, you just have to get the field agents to forget all about the first one. Good luck with that!

 

And while you're coming up with the next big hoax FAAP, you may just want to prepare a little bit for the #1 question that you asses are going to be asked...WHY DID A GOOD PORTION OF THE HQ ADMIN GET MOVED BACK TO THE FIELD AND JUST HOW MUCH DID THAT COST THE BUREAU? I hear it coming from my old field division everyday. It's a question that is even repeated in my retirement circles. It's 2014 and ATF is hoping for a better budget and you clowns spend it on moving HQ admin around. That's shameful. Period.

 

And while the DC Moving and Storage company is getting paid $$$, I know an agent that's waiting on approval to buy a new set of windshield wipers for their G-ride...

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

It's the HQ management shell game to always place themselves in a defenable legal position without admission of error or guilt.  Lawyers telling executives how to run their agency. Just name Chief Counsel to Director and get it over with.

 

Th piece/link below is similar.  I am not adverse with BJ.  Known and worked with him over many years.  I worked for Atteberry and he treated me exceptionally.  But...

 

http://www.examiner....s-source-claims

 

HQ hijacked both of these guys to cover.  If they tried to leverage BJ out then why did they move him to Phoenix in the first place?  I don't know what he did or didn't do but is HQ so short sighted they didn't see this coming?  I can not comment on the detais of the Milwaukee events in specific because I don't know them well enough to.  But why move a guy, state your trust in him, then run scared and try to cover his force-out with a transfer to a place you know he can not, and will not accept?  Why blow somebody up like that?  They play their back alley games with employees lives and their families lives.  If they don't care enough about their "A" Team to not treat them with some dignity then no wonder why those on the junior varsity get handled like they do. 

 

Like Vince below, they use personell actions to achieve their agendas.  Wrong in so many ways.

 

Why would they transfer Atteberry to HQ, then transfer him right back to Phoenix months later?  Maybe he wasn't the puppet they wanted him to be?  Like Atteberry or not - I happen to - he is his own man.  I have had yelling sessions with him over disagreements but I will say this - he is convicted to his positons.  Those arguements never resulted in anything more than an agreement to disagree and a diet Fresca.  HQ knew what they were getting with him - an outspoken executive commited to his agency principles.  Did they really think they were going to brainwash him to be a HQ yes man?  They didn't know their candidate very well if they did.  A tiger is not going to change its stripes and if they thought Atteberry was going to become one of their house cats in exchange for a title they were ignorant.  I'll go way out on a limb (sarcasm) and speculate that Atteberry didn't cowtow to the executive staff.  Just a guess.  Maybe Richie Marianos might have some insight on what happens to you if you don't kiss Jones's ring?

 

Like BJ or not, I do, why set him up?  What's accomplished?  If mistakes were made, which we all do - me more than others so I'm not speaking out of school - why consistently mishandle every single situation that comes across their desks?  That question is directed at Jones, Brandon and Turk.  A GS 5 would have known not to sanction McMahon's double dip.  Our Deputy Director didn't.  Is he going to be moved, transferred, then moved again and fired?  Bet not.

 

The cost of switch back moves is stupid but what about these guys families as well?  Their wives and kids didn't sign on for the career manipulation they are recieving.  Good or bad, right or wrong, why treat people like this?

While asking field Agents nation wide to fund their own moves. How much whas been spent on these ridiculous moves. How many moves were expended to protect Crenshaw and McLemore? An audit should be conducted as to how many GS 14s and above have been moved with one years of their previous assignment. 4 Special Agents in Charge in 4 yrs? Not only expensive but counter productive.

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

It's the HQ management shell game to always place themselves in a defenable legal position without admission of error or guilt.  Lawyers telling executives how to run their agency. Just name Chief Counsel to Director and get it over with.

 

Th piece/link below is similar.  I am not adverse with BJ.  Known and worked with him over many years.  I worked for Atteberry and he treated me exceptionally.  But...

 

http://www.examiner....s-source-claims

 

HQ hijacked both of these guys to cover.  If they tried to leverage BJ out then why did they move him to Phoenix in the first place?  I don't know what he did or didn't do but is HQ so short sighted they didn't see this coming?  I can not comment on the detais of the Milwaukee events in specific because I don't know them well enough to.  But why move a guy, state your trust in him, then run scared and try to cover his force-out with a transfer to a place you know he can not, and will not accept?  Why blow somebody up like that?  They play their back alley games with employees lives and their families lives.  If they don't care enough about their "A" Team to not treat them with some dignity then no wonder why those on the junior varsity get handled like they do. 

 

Like Vince below, they use personell actions to achieve their agendas.  Wrong in so many ways.

 

Why would they transfer Atteberry to HQ, then transfer him right back to Phoenix months later?  Maybe he wasn't the puppet they wanted him to be?  Like Atteberry or not - I happen to - he is his own man.  I have had yelling sessions with him over disagreements but I will say this - he is convicted to his positons.  Those arguements never resulted in anything more than an agreement to disagree and a diet Fresca.  HQ knew what they were getting with him - an outspoken executive commited to his agency principles.  Did they really think they were going to brainwash him to be a HQ yes man?  They didn't know their candidate very well if they did.  A tiger is not going to change its stripes and if they thought Atteberry was going to become one of their house cats in exchange for a title they were ignorant.  I'll go way out on a limb (sarcasm) and speculate that Atteberry didn't cowtow to the executive staff.  Just a guess.  Maybe Richie Marianos might have some insight on what happens to you if you don't kiss Jones's ring?

 

Like BJ or not, I do, why set him up?  What's accomplished?  If mistakes were made, which we all do - me more than others so I'm not speaking out of school - why consistently mishandle every single situation that comes across their desks?  That question is directed at Jones, Brandon and Turk.  A GS 5 would have known not to sanction McMahon's double dip.  Our Deputy Director didn't.  Is he going to be moved, transferred, then moved again and fired?  Bet not.

 

The cost of switch back moves is stupid but what about these guys families as well?  Their wives and kids didn't sign on for the career manipulation they are recieving.  Good or bad, right or wrong, why treat people like this?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Request for insight/opinions

 

Facts: June 2012 ATF delivered proposed termination to me. In the final paragraph, I was advised that I would be performing my SOO duties assigned to me at my residence. The OSC has taken up my case and secured an indefinite stay until the matter is resolved.

 

Since 2012 I have not been assigned ONE duty. Not one project,,,,,,,,,,,,crickets. I have volunteered for virtually every assignment announced Bureau wide. Denied EVERY time.

 

NOW add to these facts, that prior to the termination proposal, I was assigned ZERO meaningful tasks while being idled in my office at the SFFD for 3 years prior to the proposal.

 

Heres the point:

 

ATF counsel Katherine Meng has represented to the OSC that the San Francisco field division does not have enough work to assign me. REALLY? It would be interesting to see emails, manpower requests, etc etc from SAC Riehl. Apparently there is NOT enough work to go around. ATF would now like to have me assigned work from HQ and/or the Bomb data center. Why now? Within 90 days of my civil trial date. Hell, I went on CNN and provided a video diary of me being idled with no work. That was 4 yrs ago. NOW they are concerned about my productivity to the point of misleading the OSC about the SFFD workload. I wonder what all the hard working SOOs and DOOs across the country would say about that.

 

Guess Mr. Riehl et al will not be getting any new Agents in the future since they are SO slow at work. Possible motivations for this ridiculous play? 

[Doc Holiday]

Any word on when Mr. Brandon will be reporting to Tampa?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

THE HITS JUST KEEP ON COMING

 

IT IS A WELL KNOWN FACT THAT THE WALNUT CREEK LAB HAS BEEN PLAGUED BY ABUSIVE AND RETALIATORY CONDUCT FOR YEARS NOW. MULTIPLE COMPLAINTS HAVE BEEN FILED. SEVERAL EMPLOYEES HAVE LEFT THE AGENCY RATHER THAN BE SUBJECTED TO THE WIDESPREAD ABUSES. THE INTERESTING PART............

 

DOJ MADE A FORMAL FINDING OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST LAB DIRECTOR DONNA REED AND THE FACILITY. ONCE AGAIN, ATF POLICY REQUIRES THAT REED BE TERMINATED. ALLEGEDLY NON-NEGOTIABLE.

 

HAS SHE BEEN TERMINATED? NO. WHY NOT. THE DIRECTOR SAYS HE WONT TOLERATE SUCH CONDUCT AND TO DATE........HE PROMOTED JOHN TORRES AFTER A FORMAL FINDING OF RETALIATION. AND NOW DONNA REED IS LEFT IN PLACE, YOU ASK WHY NO ONE RESPECTS OR BELIEVES MR. JONES RHETORIC. HERE IT IS.

[Doc Holiday]

Goodworker, haha, right on - name something that Jones has taken any personal accountablity for?  He has no issue allowing his subordinates to take it for him.  Is that leadership?  How nice would it be to hear him say; I run this agency, I own what we do, the problems that I inherited are now mine to fix?

To accept responsibility, would in fact require Mr. Jones to take action and provide solutions. We dont have a one yr plan, a two yr plan or a 5 yr plan. What does that say to the field. He may be bate and switching our problems from Congress(I doubt it), but the field is watching his EVERY move. Outrageous abuses, continued disputes with field Agents, unwillingness to settle clear cut cases of retaliation. I have been tracking CUATF for years. For the first time, highly respected Agents and Inspectors who truly wanted to save this agency are now lamenting that it may not be able to be saved. This is very sad. I hope they are wrong.

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

Goodworker, haha, right on - name something that Jones has taken any personal accountablity for?  He has no issue allowing his subordinates to take it for him.  Is that leadership?  How nice would it be to hear him say; I run this agency, I own what we do, the problems that I inherited are now mine to fix?

[GoodWorker]

I don't know who Heisenberg or Abteilung are but they brought some balanced debate and good points to this site that I believe it was designed to inspire.

 

We (you - I am no longer with the agency) at ATF have some great leaders.  Some smart men and women who have done the job and know it well.  Too few in my opinion but nonetheless, Heisenberg's point is valid.  Abteilung's thoughts were equally good.

 

I believe what the field really wants more than anything is consistency applied to all and fairness applied to those who don't have any juice in the process.

 

The great leaders need to be that, great leaders.  If you have the courage to speak your mind in a crowd of head nodding yes-men/women I applaud you.  Unfortunately, many see what is wrong, know how to fix it, have an opinion but sit on it for fear that they will damage their upward moblity.  If you consider yourself to be a great leader but follow the go-along-to-get-along approach then reassess who you are, where you are and what you stand for.

 

In every aspect of life success is based in relationships and communication.  Families, marriges, businesses, sports teams, law enforcement agencies, etc.

 

When I hear that the executives want to hear what the field has to say, I just laugh.  No you don't.  Not only do you not want to hear it, you are not receptive even when facts and truth are crammed down your throats.  You defend, deny, defend, deny until we all barf on ourselves. 

 

My personal mantra that was arrived at after my own fight and which helped me laugh and smile through the entire process is "Believe half of what you hear and none of what you see" [Grapevine / Marvin Gaye].

 

Most of management has no meaningful relationship with the field.  Even less are willing to entertain meaningful discussion.  Say something the bosses don't like, challenge them, debate them - you get put in their gunsights, shut out and shut off.  Sensitive little feelings get hurt and whatever relationship you thought you had gets thrown out like a piss bucket.  Blind loyalty for managment of management and the inablity to self-assess or internally examine the management of ATF in an honest way is what has broken ATF in half (one man's opinion).

 

Bad bosses can occasionally do something good.  Good bosses occasionally do something wrong.  None of us are perfect or hold all the answers.  The bad stuff never seems to matter or be accounted for and the good stuff never seems to be rewarded.  So, as a boss, staying in the middle for fear of doing ANYTHING has ATF management frozen.  It is simply safer to stick with thr home team of ATF HQ execs, than it is to really lead.

 

Just go down the line.  As a boss or an agent or as field staff/support ask yourself if this was you, how would you have been treated and/or what would you have done when the crimes and misdeeds were presented to you with the opportunity to address them: McLemore, Torres, McMahon, Hoover, Carter, Chait, Newell, Gillett, Higman, Voth, Torres II, Melson, Fast and Furious, Milwaukee, etc.  That is the short list.  For the old timers we can go as far back as Waco.  ATF seems to always get it wrong.  Why?

 

If you are in the field you would have been fired and/or prosecuted.  If you are in management you are allowed to leave or have your job saved with a reassignment.

 

Consistency, Fairness, Relationships, Communication?  ATF needs to go Control-Alt-Delete, hit the reset button and start over with a 180 of what and how they do things.  If you are a "leader" and agree then have the courage to lead.  If you are a leader and don't agree then just keep doing what you are doing but don't expect anything to improve.

 

Being in the bottom half of the bottom half of employee satisfaction and approval means you are failing.  Change, fix it, or don't, but don't act like you want to hear or even care if you just keep your mouth shut.

I believe it was Homer Simpson who told Bart to say, "It was like that when I got here, deny, and make counter accusations."  It was funny when Homer made the statement but it is common and sad when many of our "leaders" do the same.  Have we learned anything from the lessons of Viet Nam, Waco, and the F and F?  A true leader should be concerned with getting the mission done with integrity, professionalism, and justice without looking the other way for those taking short cuts that bite us in the ass later on in the case. 

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

There are three types of people in ATF:

 

1. Those who make things happen.
2. Those who watch things happen.
3. And, those who say "What the f*** just happened?"

 

Many great agents and supervisors make things happen in spite of the bs.

 

Bad agents and managers watch things happen.

 

Jones, Brandon and Turk are in the "...what just happened" catagory.  They can't react.  They can't anticipate.  They can't make a decision without an attorney holding their hands.  They can't seem to do the right thing for the right reasons. 

 

As far as them wanting to hear the truth.  My personal experience was that when I was armed with overwhelmingly compelling facts and evidence I tried over and over to discuss with them in person.  I was routinely denied.  I would have had a better chance of getting a private sit down with the Pope than having Jones showing the courage to face the truth.

[abteilung]

When ATF managers falsely accused me of being "FUBAR" and releasing law enforcement sensitive information, I was dragged off the street while doing my job to get interrogated by OIG.  While I was able to prove I wasn't FUBAR, OIG still pushed the issue of me posting on this site.  I told them how I was being abused by ATF managers and using CleanUp was my only outlet.  Did OIG properly investigate the allegation I made against a thug GS-14 "Prince of the City?"  Nope, they turned it over to OPRSO, which turned it over to the SAC, who gave the complaint to the guy against whom I made the allegation!!!!  I know that reporters and congressional staffers read this site, and I hoped that my voice could reach out from the abyss that is ATF and make it into the light of day.

 

I'm now retired, so whatever I say here isn't going to help me any more.  But I still believe in Justice, and I hope that the people who run this government finally come to their senses and surgically remove the massive tumors that infect this agency.  And if this agency can't be fixed, then I call for this agency to be abolished, like INS was a decade ago, and turn its functions over to other agencies which aren't plagued by the same problems ATF has. 

[Heisenberg]

Vince, I've posted what I've posted hoping full well that they would see it. I also chose to avoid naming names because I don't think that it gets me, or us anywhere. Perhaps the high ground will. Some very direct and pointed commentary has been posted on this site, and where has it gotten us? Granted, Fast and Furious was put in the light because of postings here, but have other accusations gained us an inch? I think not.

Sadly, bad bosses don't know that they are bad bosses. Trashing people by name may at times be justified by the anger we feel, but it seems to close the ranks of those who are on the receiving end. We need some changes for the survival of the agemcy, but maybe--- JUST MAYBE--- if we out bad policy and discuss the poor decisions in a more civil manner, people will take notice instead of being on the defensive.

A lot of people are afraid to use the portal to send "anonymous feedback" to the Director because they are afraid it will come back to them. I'm among them. So I'm hijackimg your site to try to get those positive, negative, critical and hopeful messages out. Hopefully they will look and take notice. Maybe some positive changes can come of it if the bother to read these pages. Baby steps...

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

I agree with the below posts. Everyone of those posts have merit and Director Jones should see them. I would but historically, Mr. Jones et al. just ignore any suggestions I have forwarded from the field. The FAAP is dead and Mr. Brandon said they want to hear from you directly.(Be very careful),  NOT that they have shown any inclination to discuss ANYTHING with with ANYBODY who doesn't completely agree with them. But then again, maybe they are acknowledging that maybe these complainants aren't all disgruntled employees.

 The whole "where there's smoke there's fire" thing.

 

http://www.jsonline....-258148531.html

[Doc Holiday]

Hilltopper,

That is insane. How is such an environment allowed to thrive in a federal law enforcement agency? It is truly embarrassing. It does go to what we have been chatting about here over the past few days. Not only does the current system allow for Princes of the City at the GS 14 level, but it allows for impenetratable cliques. If the agents who refuse to get along faced being moved to seperate corners of the US at some point in their career, then they would care more about learning how to get along with others. With each passing day, I believe it more and more.

I also would love to see some of the failures in this agency demoted or publicly criticized for bad acts. Instead they are brought into HQ, sometimes with a more impressive title. Then they later reemerge emboldened by their promotion believing that they never screwed up at all. At all pay grades from GS5 to DD, punishment should be swift, fair and equal. It's leadership 101 taught at any NCO school.

And the hits just keep on coming. So Mr. Jones got embarrassed by Chairman Issa about transferring Zapor to Phoenix after failing miserably as SAC Minn. and DAD. So after only 9 months, they are demoting Attaberry and transferring him BACK to Phx. Lets do the math.........3 x $150000 per move for 9 months of performance. And we wonder WHY there is no continuity of leadership. Cudos to Mr. Jones for reversing a bad decision, but the musical bosses has to stop. NO ACCOUNTABILITY because none of these guys stay in one place.

 

Now add in the Chris Shaffer transfer back to HQ after 9 months in Atl. Same with Sweetow, you have to ask, "IS ANYONE THINKING THESE TRANSFERS THROUGH?" Remember, for all those being transferred with barely a year in place, someone needs to be transferred to back-fill their slots @$150000 per move.

 

Cleary they eased SAC Torres outta Tampa because Brandon(rumor has it) is leaving the DD slot to retire in Tampa. No demotion below SES, no loss of salary.

 

This ties in directly to what Heisenberg and Hilltopper are saying.Brandon clearly violated ALL of our standards and his conduct clearly contributed to EVERYONE losing their outside Bureau employment approval by letting Mc Mahon DBL dip. Yet NO PRB for him OR Torres. They allowed them to stay until they were forced to act because of the OIG report and Congressional oversight, and then??????????? They lose NOT ONE STEP. Does beg to question why Brandon would stick around after stepping down 3 levels. Doesn't that necessarily IMPACT his credibility and ability to lead? Guess not.

 

Mr. Jones thru Mr. Brandons memo suggests they get it. They want to hear from you. These posts should be compiled and sent directly to Director Jones. Unless of course everyone is afraid of reprisals as has been the case for his entire 2 yrs. Its time to clean up this mess Mr. Jones, but obviously listening to your executive staff isn't working or you wouldn't need to keep shuffling these guys. The field will KNOW when you are genuine when you quit protecting incompetents, and demand leadership. Until then, it appears to just be more smoke and mirrors.

 

Maybe trying to resolve some of these disputes in good faith, slowing the multiple transfers and demanding that your staff does their jobs, will enlist the 5000 field employees support.

[Heisenberg]

Hilltopper,

That is insane. How is such an environment allowed to thrive in a federal law enforcement agency? It is truly embarrassing. It does go to what we have been chatting about here over the past few days. Not only does the current system allow for Princes of the City at the GS 14 level, but it allows for impenetratable cliques. If the agents who refuse to get along faced being moved to seperate corners of the US at some point in their career, then they would care more about learning how to get along with others. With each passing day, I believe it more and more.

I also would love to see some of the failures in this agency demoted or publicly criticized for bad acts. Instead they are brought into HQ, sometimes with a more impressive title. Then they later reemerge emboldened by their promotion believing that they never screwed up at all. At all pay grades from GS5 to DD, punishment should be swift, fair and equal. It's leadership 101 taught at any NCO school.

[Hilltopper]

Still enjoying the ATF show from the quiet Old West... Just wanted to comment on the merry-go round that is the Atlanta FD. Those boys down there can't catch a break. Another SAC leaving after only a little over a year on the job. Who named Atlanta as "the doorstep to HQ"? After hearing about all of the EEO complaints and the ongoing drama of the blacks vs the whites, it would seem that HQ would put a SAC in Atlanta that may want to change the climate there. I hear that the only cases Atlanta agents write are EEO cases and grievances. No work getting done at all. And the good agents are starting to "telework" so they won't fall in an EEO trap where they are labeled as an accomplice or witness.

 

No other field division compares... WAY TO GO ATLANTA!!!!

[Heisenberg]

Jay, You are dead on. Very well said. Many of those who have promoted have absolutely no concept of themselves. They did the bare minimum as agents, went into HQ to get a GS14, came out and ran a group or became DOOs for the minimum time neded to get their GS15 and now they think they are going to lead the Charge of the Light Brigade. Sadly they never gained the knowledge of how to run a case, much less a group or a field division. Self awareness is lost on them.

It is also unfortunate that some our best boss' humble personalities keep them from moving up because they don't think they have it in them, when in fact they do. Instead they just stay in place and watch the parade of idiots who march by them on the fast track to the SES ranks.

I took some time to look at the LinkedIn profiles after someone posted in another thread about them. There are some scary ones, that's for sure. They are from everywhere- HQ, Phoenix, Philly, Nashville. It's a national phenomenon. It is the mantra of I'm an expert because I helped somebody do something once or I went to training on it so now I'm an expert at it. If it helps them get jobs and leave ATF: Goodbye!

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

I was very happy to see you guys - Hiesenberg and Abteilung and others - raise the quality of the commentary here.  I have asked myself many times if this site has actually changed anything or improved anything?  Has it been worthwhile or a waste of time and energy? 

 

I believe it has been positve, not always, but most of the time it has served the purpose of the greater good.  I think it's best overall service has been to raise awareness.  Especially for those out there who felt like they were alone and isolated.  Those who have taken the strongest positions against it are usually those who are the most insecure and/or have the most to lose by the exposure of their conduct.

 

Until CleanUpATF was launched quite a few people never realized that the bad treatment they recieved was similar, identical, sometimes worse, sometimes not as bad, as so many others.  If nothing else it has empowered the field to know that there were others out there who support them and that the masses can learn the truth of how they have been treated.  It also allowed the field to realize that there were (are) habitual abusers of employees who were being protected by the Loos's, etc., in OCC at any cost.

 

Would the details of Fast and Furious have been exposed without CleanUpATF?  Sure they would but, how much longer would it have taken?  The rage in HQ toward CUATF when DesertRat posted the first info on F&F was incredible.

 

It was started on a simple premise. There was (is) no transparency at ATF and, people in the field had their voice, within the agency they serve and love, taken away from them by superiors who didn't want to hear anything negative.  Who lead the original charge to have this site disbanded?  Chief Counsels office.  Who specifically, my understanding is that it was Eleaner Loos.  Why?  Because she/they had the most to lose when the the pattern and practice of how they treated field employees exposed.  Who backed their play?  Dirty and corrupt managers who knew if the truth came out they would be sunk.

 

CleanUpATF has in its own unorthodox way created some oversight with the threat of public exposure for retaliation, favoritism, fraud, corruption, etc.  When this site was mentioned on the floor of Senate a ways back it became undeniably relevant.

 

I was never the best agent.  I tried to be the best that I could be.  On many days I failed.  Other days I had success.  I can name a hundred agents off the top of my head who are/were better investigators than me.  I have found a common denominator in those truly great ones that they have the ablity to self-assess and self-critcize what they do.  They are the ones who admit they don't know it all and are open to new ideas.  I have also found that most of the bad or failed agents and managers can not admit a mistake.  If they can't find someone to blame for their errors they move to cover up and go on the offensive attack.  That is the nature of cowards.

 

In the purest sense, a perfect investigation, operation, program, enforcement action, etc., is not possible.  As long as we strive(d) for it, that has to be good enough.  When we fall short - admit it, fix it, try not to do it again.  The core of our executive leadership is not there yet.  I'm not sure they can or are capable of ever getting there but they won't be in charge forever.  Just look at some of the lying, overstated and embellished public resumes some of these people put on their LinkedIn accounts.  It is entertaining.

 

Whenever I talk to young agents I repeat something I was told by a wise vet when I was hired - "When things are going good enjoy them because they are not going to last and when things are going bad hang on because they are going to get better.  It's the nature of our business."

[abteilung]

Jay--I'm no longer with the agency myself.  Rather, to paraphrase President Ronald Reagan, when he explained why he switched to the Republican Party, I didn't leave ATF.  ATF left me years ago.

 

I've been mistreated by supervisors since 2006.  The agency circled its little red wagons to defend those bosses, who include a Legacy and a Prince of the City.  I did nothing wrong but stand up for my rights under the law.  If I were in the private sector and treated by private sector bosses the same way, EEOC and the Department of Justice would have sued the private company.  But because it's the US Government abusing me, I was subjected to some of the worst retaliation one can endure.  Therefore, even though I'm now retired because ATF won't accommodate me even though they've accommodated those who belong to the in clique [ATF is worse than high school when it comes to cliques, in-crowds, bullies, and outsiders], the fact is ATF left me a long time ago.

 

I'm sure that if bosses faced regular re-assignments, they wouldn't develop the attitude that they're bigger than the job.  When I got the job with ATF, I had to move, on my own dime even though I was already a government employee.  But I believed that this was the price to pay to get the job.  But when supervisors get to do their whole career in one city, except for a blip in another office 30 miles away but get transferred right back home because they cried like a little bitch the whole time and threatened not to get any cases done within a year, well, that supervisor begins to think that he's bigger than the Government, and that he's above the law.

 

Changes aren't going to get made with the current regime of SES's.  That's because the change is going to affect them, because they're 80% of the problem [the other 20% of the problem is having too many agents who ride the coattails of other agents and even TFO's when it comes to case production].  The SES's and many -14's need to be forced out.  And if that means bringing in supervisors from the FBI or DEA, so be it.

 

At least for me, these abusive GS-14 and above punks can't touch me anymore.

[Heisenberg]

Thank you Jay! Our paths have crossed and I know about what happened to you and your family. It is a disgrace. You served the agency proudly and you were left out there by men who lack honor. They are the worst that ATF has to offer. They promoted by being willing to move when other wouldn't and we were stuck with their leadership. We have some damn good guys in this agency, but they don't want to bite the bullet and move, but then freely complain about the decisions made by those who were willing to.

You had honor and you loved this bureau more than most of those who rose through the ranks. That is, until you were betrayed by leaders who swore the same oath you did.

This website was set up for the right reasons, and for years it has bashed leaders, most very deservedly, some not. Maybe it's time to clean up ATF by having the debate here that won't be had in the walls of ATF Offices for fear of reprisal. Our crappy promotion process is one area that can be discussed, highlighting the good leaders in our shop is another. At worst, nothing will change, but truthfully with all that has been put on this site, has any of it really mattered other than F&F. At best it led to IA compliaints against some posters. I hope we can get people to have a fair, honest and open discussion here, and that someone takes notice.

Let me ask you this Jay. You're a straight shooter, If something happened to someone you cared about can you name 5 current ATF leaders that you would want leading the charge? I'm curious to see if there are any left.

I hope you are doing well in your retirement. I hope you make millions and live to be 100 and again find happiness.

[Retired Agent Jay Dobyns]

I don't know who Heisenberg or Abteilung are but they brought some balanced debate and good points to this site that I believe it was designed to inspire.

 

We (you - I am no longer with the agency) at ATF have some great leaders.  Some smart men and women who have done the job and know it well.  Too few in my opinion but nonetheless, Heisenberg's point is valid.  Abteilung's thoughts were equally good.

 

I believe what the field really wants more than anything is consistency applied to all and fairness applied to those who don't have any juice in the process.

 

The great leaders need to be that, great leaders.  If you have the courage to speak your mind in a crowd of head nodding yes-men/women I applaud you.  Unfortunately, many see what is wrong, know how to fix it, have an opinion but sit on it for fear that they will damage their upward moblity.  If you consider yourself to be a great leader but follow the go-along-to-get-along approach then reassess who you are, where you are and what you stand for.

 

In every aspect of life success is based in relationships and communication.  Families, marriges, businesses, sports teams, law enforcement agencies, etc.

 

When I hear that the executives want to hear what the field has to say, I just laugh.  No you don't.  Not only do you not want to hear it, you are not receptive even when facts and truth are crammed down your throats.  You defend, deny, defend, deny until we all barf on ourselves. 

 

My personal mantra that was arrived at after my own fight and which helped me laugh and smile through the entire process is "Believe half of what you hear and none of what you see" [Grapevine / Marvin Gaye].

 

Most of management has no meaningful relationship with the field.  Even less are willing to entertain meaningful discussion.  Say something the bosses don't like, challenge them, debate them - you get put in their gunsights, shut out and shut off.  Sensitive little feelings get hurt and whatever relationship you thought you had gets thrown out like a piss bucket.  Blind loyalty for managment of management and the inablity to self-assess or internally examine the management of ATF in an honest way is what has broken ATF in half (one man's opinion).

 

Bad bosses can occasionally do something good.  Good bosses occasionally do something wrong.  None of us are perfect or hold all the answers.  The bad stuff never seems to matter or be accounted for and the good stuff never seems to be rewarded.  So, as a boss, staying in the middle for fear of doing ANYTHING has ATF management frozen.  It is simply safer to stick with thr home team of ATF HQ execs, than it is to really lead.

 

Just go down the line.  As a boss or an agent or as field staff/support ask yourself if this was you, how would you have been treated and/or what would you have done when the crimes and misdeeds were presented to you with the opportunity to address them: McLemore, Torres, McMahon, Hoover, Carter, Chait, Newell, Gillett, Higman, Voth, Torres II, Melson, Fast and Furious, Milwaukee, etc.  That is the short list.  For the old timers we can go as far back as Waco.  ATF seems to always get it wrong.  Why?

 

If you are in the field you would have been fired and/or prosecuted.  If you are in management you are allowed to leave or have your job saved with a reassignment.

 

Consistency, Fairness, Relationships, Communication?  ATF needs to go Control-Alt-Delete, hit the reset button and start over with a 180 of what and how they do things.  If you are a "leader" and agree then have the courage to lead.  If you are a leader and don't agree then just keep doing what you are doing but don't expect anything to improve.

 

Being in the bottom half of the bottom half of employee satisfaction and approval means you are failing.  Change, fix it, or don't, but don't act like you want to hear or even care if you just keep your mouth shut.

[Heisenberg]

Abteilung also has some good points.

I don't particularly care for the FBI but maybe they are onto something when it comes to how they move their agents around. Maybe 7-10 years is a good limit on time in a POD before a move. It would force the competent 13s to promote in order to try to pick their next landing.

4-5 years for a GS14 OR GS15 wouldn't be bad. How about brining our sharpest bosses into HQ so that this agency has a HQ, instead of a building in DC thag is a knowledge vacuum. If our senior leaders are surrounded by dullards, then the only people who are giving them advice are the people who are too stupid to succeed on the outside. A weak HQ is a characteristic that is exclusive to ATF. We have 25 fiefdoms and a building in DC. Imagine a FBI Field Division bucking FBI HQ--- There would be hell to pay. Our's do it all the time.

Finally- and perhaps most importantly- How about demoting people for serious screw ups? We've had some serious- AND I MEAN SERIOUS- failures at the GS14, GS15 and above ranks. What happens to them? We bring them into HQ (see paragraph 2) or hide them in DOO or FIG spots, praying that they won't screw up too badly. Then we're stuck with them. Even worse, they later re-emerge at a higher pay grade thinking that they are competent because they were never held responsible for their mistakes. Hell, they probably even managed "Outstanding" evaluations because tHeir bosses were either too afraid or too lazy to give them the eval that they deserved. Accountability has to start top down AND bottom up.

We have a long, LONG way to go. Support our best leaders and out the worst.

[abteilung]

Heisenberg has a point.

 

A solution for the happy -13 syndrome: if you've been a -13 in one place for more than 7 years, and you don't take the AC, you get transferred to another city.

 

At the very least, a GS-14 who has spent his entire federal career in his home town should have to transfer after four years as a -14.  No more "Prince of the City" attitudes.

 

Off topic: how does someone who never investigated an arson get a CFI slot?  I seem to remember that when one put in for CES or CFI, one had to list all the IN's of their arson/explosives cases and cite state/local counterparts as references.  But now I hear someone got CFI who has never shown up at a fire or explosive career in his/her ten-plus years with ATF.  So much for ATF "re-committing" to the arson program.

Meant to say "fire or explosive SCENE."  Doh.

[abteilung]

Heisenberg has a point.

 

A solution for the happy -13 syndrome: if you've been a -13 in one place for more than 7 years, and you don't take the AC, you get transferred to another city.

 

At the very least, a GS-14 who has spent his entire federal career in his home town should have to transfer after four years as a -14.  No more "Prince of the City" attitudes.

 

Off topic: how does someone who never investigated an arson get a CFI slot?  I seem to remember that when one put in for CES or CFI, one had to list all the IN's of their arson/explosives cases and cite state/local counterparts as references.  But now I hear someone got CFI who has never shown up at a fire or explosive career in his/her ten-plus years with ATF.  So much for ATF "re-committing" to the arson program.

[Heisenberg]

What I wonder is if anyone really gives a crap about the survey, this website, bad press, congress, or anything other than their own personal agendas? ATF today isn't what it was in the 1980s, 1990s, or the early 2000s. We used to do more with less. We were a family and we looked out for each other. New agents were grateful to have the job and they were willing to learn. They were all eyes and ears, with little to spout off about. Senior guys loved the job and were more than happy to share their knowledge with the next generation. The bosses, for the most part, had done the job and possessed the knowledge to move the train along and to put out the necessary fires with, for the most part, respect for the working agent.

Today, our newer generation of agents come here already "knowing everything" and they are readily willing to complain about their g-ride, workspace or fellow employees. The senior agents have either moved on the other spots, or have their faces buried so far into the TSP that they wouldn't recognize a crime, even if they were the victim. And the bosses rocket up through the ranks caring nothing about the quality of the work in their groups, the quality of the work environment for their subordinates, or the quality of their leadership. We are fully engrossed in the "me generation" and this ship won't turn on a dime, (or a survey). The only good news is that this isn't an ATF issue--- it is an issue across all of LE--- if that could be good news.

There has been a lot of incompetence that has promoted to the GS 14 level and even more at the GS 15 level. If these guys are our future, we have a problem- A BIG PROBLEM. These guys are our next wave of SACs and above.

The time has come for the guys who have made cases and loved being case agents, to step up and promote. Enough "happy 13s" who are extremely competent but uninvolved in the direction of the agency. Step up or shut up. If you don't like the direction thst we are going in, then start looking for spots where you can be part of setting the direction.

Stupid people don't know that they are stupid and some of our worst bosses think they are great leaders. They are really that pathetic, but if they are the only ones raising their hands, then they will be calling the shots--- do the math. We MUST support our good bosses, and out the bad ones, but putting our faith in surveys will not do the trick.