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EXFED: If you are going to "talk trash", at least have the guts to
sign your name. Still scared of the bastards even after retirement?
It figures .

Vince Noble

Hello> I'm not sure Vince Cefalu will allow this post to be posted but - what the heck . . . I've been retired about 5 years. I gave ATF 110% everyday and was screwed over by them about 1000 times as a reward. I worked for some of the most incompetent, self-serving "special needs", alite hand picked fools money could buy. You like to talk about Bosses who left the outfit and were "disgraced" by leaving. How so? because you say so? Retirement is guaranteed as part of the emplioyment contract so taking it is "disgrace"? Sounds like you slop haulers are miserable so who gets the last laugh 0- those who retired (in disgrace by your say so) or you clowns whos till have to show up and dress out miserable every day? Why don't you sad sacks get a life and go to work? Are you writing all this whining, back slapping, self congratulating, usually inaccurate, half truth or no truth innudendo crap on work time? No wonder the public thinks YOU are a bunch of idiots. They don't discern between you trailer trash and the dumb out of their depth SOBs that made the mistake of becoming a Boss and being stuck between idiots for their bosses and idiots for subordinates. I've read this crap about 3 times a year for about 15 minutes a whack for the past few years. It's always half (or less) of the story or downright not true so you can grind an ax on a Boss you hate or hated. Yes, it's true, you work for a B-Team outfit and otherwise most of you would have never been employed. The Bosses are morons and so are the rank and file - Be Honest. If you can't get a job at leats get a life. Paid the 1st of each month without showing up and health insurance for life - yep retirement is disgraceful!!!!!!!!!!

While I am just offering an opinion, I know how easy it is to be frustrated and cynical because of usually only one or two people who are in a position to obstruct your growth and development. Sadly, it's Mind over Matter: They don't mind, because you don't matter!
Especially when they have all the power and you're relegated to a "squeeky wheel" status. Sometimes it requires a little humbleness in a highly politicized environment. It may appear more important it seems, than one's skills and experience. Which is why I try to not only help those trying to promote, but help them really appreciate the role of politics at these higher levels, and hopefully, they will realize that to succeed and survive. Usually this is discovered rather quickly in mid-level management positions. And if you are not prepared for it, or have built up some layers of protection or "insulation" you're liable to regret you ever signed up to promote. But this is not what this should be about. It (the promotional process) should be an honest appraisal and objective review of your skills in this "new" role. The best words of advice I offer are try not to let those issues (personality clashes, or even outright sabotage and hostility) deter you, as in most cases, they are relatively temporary. You keep focused on the subordinates or agents and staff under your supervision or command and ensuring their successes. The higher you go, the more relationships and coalitions come into play. Developing solid teamwork with community and professional resources with shared goals and objectives trump bureaucratic pettiness any day. At the end of the day (or career) it's still your story either way. I hope they are all success stories! And think about how you really are measuring success. Hmmm?

PS: in looking over many scenarios for assessment exercises, I find many similarities and common KSA's that are threaded throughout these scenarios. Since you are, I'm assuming, preparing for an assessment center, keep in mind that every email, local project, community project, or area project, including meeting with other players, community members, etc., all have a common denominator - and that is you and your role in these events. Should you see yourself in the leadership role or management role, and you are now "in-charge" what do you really bring to the table that is so different from anyone else. That's right, probably not much else that is "different," but that slight edge computes into percentage points and percentage points is what gets you promoted. So... each of these roles you're in now use as "free practice" for tomorrows role that you seek. Raters (and you have two raters each) are looking for candidates to demonstrate these KSA's in the various exercises. You do these probably every day, but don't think of them as a "test." If you were a musician, you'd be trying out for "first chair." You have to have something that you bring out for raters to see that they didn't see quite as much of in other candidates. What that is is really "reassurance..." that you are indeed "ready" for this new role. Rick M.

Thanks for a great and highly informative website. I retired in 2003 after going through 4 years of similar battles with these corrupt, incompetent bottom-feeders. I'm proud to say I'm one of the few White Guys they had to pay off. Donnie Carter really hated that, although, given his superlative command of the English Language, I really could not understand what he was saying most of the time. By the way, the Order about not wearing a wire in meetings with your boss,....ignore it. If you don't get the goods on him they will never know you have the tape in the first place and if you do get the goods on him, they will run for the "tall grass". It worked for me. It is sad. After 7 years nothing has changed. Same lies, same buck-passing and same coverups. The agency is an embarrassment, always has been and probably always will be. It is a shame...some of the best Agents in the business...and all of the most corrupt and incompetent managers in the business. Keep fighting the "good fight". Keep shining the light of truth on their corrupt backroom deals and make them do what rats do when the light shines on them......scatter and hide.

Vince Noble BN2611 (ret.)

Thanks a lot for the informative and interesting publication first of all. Actually I was looking for this information for a long time and finally have noticed this on your entry. Reading this great post I have found so many new and useful information about your manifesto, which I have not known before. I am so glad that I have bookmarked this website because I see that it is full of various and attractive information about everything. Thanks one more time for this publication, it was really interesting to read it.

I'm not sure if there's some "live" comments still, but I noted the issues of assessment centers for promotions and just wanted to say I've been helping officers and others, by demystifying the assessment center processes by focusing on specific supervisory or management skills, not on learning how to "beat" or "cheat" any system. From what I've heard, agents have been told not to take any promotional prep courses, which is like saying don't take a management degree in college or don't read Lee Iacocca's book...which doesn't make any sense at all. I'm not an agent but have been in law enforcement for over 30 years and have helped many, many guys promote and guess what I found...? The assessment centers for agents were essentially the same as we did for fire, police or corrections... the only thing that really changes are the scenarios. For my two cents, I agree with you all in that there needs to be consistency (and transparency) in the promotional process. By the way, the International Congress on Assessment Center Methods publishes guidelines for what assessment centers should or should not include. You can find theme at: and just look for "the Guidelines" ... I'm still doing classes regularly and while we don't get a lot of federal agents, I've found that the ones I do get agree about the similarities of the content and only the scenarios differ much. A good job analysis (recently) will help too. After all, handling a complaint from a citizen doesn't change much regardless of the location or agency. Managing an undercover operation as a local vice or narcotic officer, while certainly different in scope from a federal case, still revolves around key or core skills the supervisory or managing officer needs to have ... and if they don't... then they aren't going to be very effective are they? For me, it's mostly about helping people assess their own readiness levels to step into this new role. Personally, your agency should be doing that and developing those skills by a formal leadership development process vs the mere posting of an announcement of a test, and keeping all the details "secret" as to what the test will involve. Hey, it's about your readiness to do the job, and if you have those skills, you should be able to demonstrate them. If not, you should be (hopefully) be able to gain those skills and be rated, regardless of testing process, by your demonstration of those core skills, and nothing else. But you and I know the reality of the political side of appointments, regardless of who well (or not) someone did on a "test." I keep plugging away, but many agencies don't understand the value of assessment centers, which is supposed to be in their predictability factors, and still rely on a lame interview process, which is like saying let's see who can "spit" the furthest for all the real validity it has. At any rate, I'm glad to help out. You have my respect and admiration for what you do every day on the line. I have many of my college students who aspire to join your ranks, but as you've mentioned as a group, there are some real differences in the "generational" gaps both in entry level but also in supervision and management problems. I see it as well in classes and from my assessment center candidates. Let me know what you think.... Rick

Shoot!!!!! Force of habit; I used my ATF email. What a joke. It's

Thor -

I wish you would call me. It appears that you could be a great resource for me. I will NOT divulge my sources. Also, I am interested in joining any class-action lawsuit against management. I will share everything I can with you as soon as I can. My MSPB hearing date is February 3, 2010 so it will be soon. If you need my attorney (retired USCS IA RAC) let me know.


Peace in the New Year.

As to the AC. I took it in 2006. It was common knowledge that there was a CD given out to a specific group that, in my honest opinion, gave them a distinct advantage. Once I found out about it I made my chain of command aware of this. I don't mind being "beaten out" by someone that did more work, did better cases or just had more knowledge that I did but not by someone that basically got the test. I was told that my complaint was addressed at the AC Board. The answer I was given was that it should not had made a difference. I was also told that if you took the test in 2004 and let's say got a 60 if you took the test gain your score would +/- 5 points. Then how was it that some agents that failed it miserably all of a sudden in two years time became the most knowledgeable agents in this agency.I realize that subjectivity exists in how the assessors evaluate but not to that degree. Fortunately, I spent 18 years in the field, before I took the AC, in a field office working with hard working knowledgeable agents and working cases that meant something (not the PSN road kill cases that get you promoted to 13 status) thus exposing me to what I needed to know to pass the AC (with a damn decent score with no study material). I happen to belong to one of these "special" groups but don't hide behind that to try and advance. Don't want a hand out and will never ask for one. The AC needs to be modified again raise the passing score!!!! Unfortunately we, and I mean government, have become to politically correct to call the baby ugly. I have been with ATF going on 23 years now and have worked with the best agents you can ask for hands down, but if this ship isn't straightened out we will cease to exist. I feel like we are on the Titanic and HQ is the captain and someone says "hey there's an iceberg and HQ says don't worry about it we'll get around it." I'm to close to retirement to leave now but to those "newer" agents, you need to step up and take control of this agency,,, don't just sit back doing road kill cases and being content with collecting a paycheck. Learn the job, enjoy it, then step up and teach the others how to do it and change the mentality from within. I am now a RAC and I must say I am disappointed in what I see. Younger agents content to do road kill cases and just survive. Some will say that it's my job to teach them, to expose them to do things better and I say you are correct, I can do all of those things but they must want to do it for themselves. I can't teach initiative, drive, pride and commitment. Unfortunately if you have the stats you get a decent eval. Well now that I have gtten that off my chest, I hope that this site will have an affect on HQ and things change before I leave (6 years to mandatory). Be safe, strive on and have a great New Year!!!!

Dear Snake Bite:
I am on your side. Make no bones about it, the system is rotten. We are dysfunctional. Nonetheless, be careful when it comes to race and gender. In spite of powerful new subcultures, the white males still have the numbers when it comes to executives. Frankly there are several clubs taking care of there own. Some groups reward based on being a member of the same ethnicity...while others reward on being of a similar disposition (of course, all of these of gangs compete against each other at the cost of hard working field operators). Unfortunately none of these "special interests" are looking for character (NOT ONE OF THEM, FOLKS). There is no high ground when it comes to power in this agency. You can't look to the white male, black, hispanic or female executives in these troubled times...because none of these clubs have effective leaders who represent the whole of the agency and the righteousness of the mission.

Commander Cody,
The hard, unfair and typical ATF reason that your brother was not offered the study material to prepare for the testing process is because he is not a member of one of the “protected groups”. He may technically be a protected person because he may be over 40 years of age, but if he is an over 40 white male, he’s considered disposable by the ATF leadership. If he falls into this demographic, your brother will not, under any circumstances be permitted to rock the boat or make a mistake while trying to put bad guys in jail. Rest assured, if he does, he will be used as an example of what the ATF SES club does to “disposable assets.”
Now, if your brother would happen to fall into one of the other protected groups, besides an over 40 white male, well ATF has historically, and apparently currently has continued to break rules, policies and laws in order to persist in painting a non-representative face on the ethnic background, sex and skin color of the majority of the ATF Agents. I’m not trying to start a racial argument, or a sex discrimination argument, but I am stating the obvious. I don’t know what the demographic totals are for all of the ATF Agents, but I think it’s safe to assume that the majority of the ATF Agents are white males. Take a look at a photo lineup of the ATF SES gang and you’ll find that the majority of the SES gang is not made up of white males.
Tell your brother that I have observed ATF operate like this for years and apparently there is nothing the hard working agents can do about it, regardless of their skin color or sex. Unless things change in the next administration, when an ATF three year wonder finally get anointed with their SES appointment they become scared to death to call the baby ugly, because they may get kicked out of the SES fraternity/sorority. Who knows, maybe our next politically connected Director will do what’s right, but tell your brother not to hold his breath.
I have been through a lot of Directors since becoming an ATF Agent and it hasn’t gotten better yet. As a matter of fact, ATF has consistently become a more dreadful place to work. I myself have too much time in to join another Agency. If I only knew in my thirties, what I know now I wouldn’t be fighting the ATF, make up the rules as you go and apply the rules as the SAC wishes game.
My advice to your brother is, if he is still young, apply to other agencies because ATF has not changed in years and as a matter of fact, ATF has gotten worse over the past two decades.

We've heard about the "Special Tutoring" and are now living with some of the results. God help us all. One of them has been moved from one Group to another and is a trainwreck there as well. They don't dare (or do they) place that person over an actual case producing group. Heck, they'd have to actually show up to work occasionally then and that would only be worse than what it is already.

Everyone has heard about the sweetheart deal VM got and we all know that a white male non SES would never have gotten that deal. We have all heard bits and pieces through the grapevine of things she did going back to when she first made SAC. It sure would be nice to see the written report on what they finally came up with to force her out. Same with all the other trainwrecks we hear about.

Until we get some leadership that is willing to break with the SES chain and actually talk to folks in the field and then do something about it, I unfortunately don't see anything changing. The Let them Eat Cake mentality has got to end. And Please, Please no more Directors from the Secret Service. They get over here and expect people to kiss their ring.

Anonymous is not wrong. Two "special-interest" organizations allegedly ran study groups for certain ATF agents at those organizations' conferences since at least 2006, allegedly using material supllied by ATF, with the specific intent to get those agents promoted.

Why wasn't this same material made available to ALL agents participating in the promotional process, including my own brother???

I just want to take a minute and wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. REMEMBER:


Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous,

If the allegations of cheating and executive assistance and participation are true, and I have heard independently from very credible sources that it is, then our entire promotion structure has been tainted and may be doomed. I understand through these sources that the 2006 supervisors tests and possibly the 2008 tests were those compromised by group cheating.

For those who took the promotions test and knew they were cheating there is only one solution. Termination.

For those who provided the materials used to assist others to cheat the same thing is necessary. Termination.

For those that knew the cheating was taking place and did nothing to report it or prevent it, severe discipline is required. Termination, extended days off, demotion.

If you didn’t cheat and were beat out for a promotion by someone who did then “Katie Bar the Door” for ATF to the lawsuits and claims of discrimination that will be coming.

These punishments are all necessary for everyone in this agency to maintain any semblance of faith that a fair and level playing field exists for those competing for jobs.

The code of honesty and integrity for law enforcement officers is not ambiguous. It is what our profession is ultimately based on.

At our military academies cheaters are removed from school permanently, kicked out. This is because their code of honesty and integrity is so important that they do not want association or potential advancement of those willing to compromise those values.

We at ATF should hold no less of a standard. If a student at our academy was found to be cheating they would be fired. Why would that standard be any less because those cheating are potential supervisors?

If we cannot trust our future leaders to turn away from cheating how can we trust them to run our agency? How can the taxpayers we serve trust any of us? If ATF permits cheating to go unpunished then what else will we turn a blind eye to? These are logical questions that our communities will ask if this is not capped off immediately.

This embarrassing event is a black eye for ATF that will not heal. Once the full truth is known and those involved are identified a swift and decisive punishment must be handed out or we can all forever surrender the thought that anything any of us has ever done on this job holds any value.

Lie, cheat, steal and deceive your way to the top regardless of what you stand for or how you’ve conducted yourself. Get there at any cost regardless of how corrupt the journey is. Oh yeah, we’ve had that system in place for awhile. Maybe now is a good time to change it.

Truer words have not been spoken. Too many secrets, too many back room discussions with counsel. The "gray" area is not always gray. There actually is right and wrong. The same traits that Billy brought to the table and encouraged the field when he and Ronnie took control of the Bureau were the same traits that have led to our slow destruction. Ronnie and Billy had plenty of courage to attack field agents and not be concerned with the background other than one of their peer SACs said it is so. But when confronted with having to become adversarial with those giving them counsel and having to confront the destructive practices of a handful of managers, they Cowered. They forgot that their first responsibility is to the Bureau and not to the SACs. They did/do not posses the character to lead and that is why they are gone. Its unfortunate, because Billy is exactly the kind of man you want for a neighbor, just not the guy to raise the bar for this Bureau. Hopefully Mr. Melson is listening and we can start to repair the damage done by Billys cowardice.

Mark Potter has been perpetrating these destructive behaviors for years.He has been an obstructionist to hard working agents. He has negatively impacted our Bureaus productivity and our reputation in the law enforcement community everywhere he has served. He was (unfortunately) a product of the style over substance generation of ATF leadership. Fine he looks good in a suit, then go work for mens warehouse. He doesn't get it and never will. His agents not wearing jeans is more important to them impacting the obvious violence that is ongoing in his division. He turned a blind eye to his ASACs obvious inappropriate conduct. He maliciously destroyed 2 of the best supervisors in Atlanta and subsequently dropped his obligation to administer his division to facilitate the Directors nephews school project. He has never earned his badge and needs to be removed and placed in a non enforcement capacity so the Agents who are trying to work in Phil. may do so.

Justice is Served (cold) is correct. Billy, I have known you for many years. We were friends. You did change...Big Time. I won't forget your words the last time we talked. You gave me the “I was not aware of that” routine. What a cop-out. You know better.

Your comment raises a serious question. Was Mark Potter in fact the man behind the (later quashed) sweatheart contractor deal for Stankiewicz? "Instant Karma" is going to catch up with Mr. Potter, sooner or later.

I don't think things are getting better, at least far from it. Certainly not with the Cadillac SAC himself, Mark Potter [aka the Homework SAC] up there in Killadelphia. Between him and his pitbull ASAC Russ May, they continue to ride roughshod over the Philly agents, making them all miserable. Cases are to be made from desks, not the street. Just don't have any file cabinets by those desks. Can't arrest anyone without calling in the SRT. Can't call in the NRT. He protects fellow SES club member Stankiewitz when Stankiewitz gets caught sexually harassing a subordinate, but when a common street agent gets some personal justice done, Potter is insulted and decides he's going to interfere with the personnel decision.
Maybe with his buddy Hoover getting spanked, Potter might realize that no one is above the law.

I too want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2010!

If ATF executives are finally looking over their shoulder and thinking twice about violating the law and engaging in prohibited personnel practices as a result of being exposed on this website, this website is a good thing!

For so long they have been allowed to run rampant, unchecked and unchallenged, as long as they returned the favor to their cronies. Hopefully, this unacceptable and illegal behavior will come to an end soon.

I look forward to the New Year and wish you each and everyone of you all the best.

To those invovled in this webpage, thank you.

The watchdog element of cleanupatf has those who have mistreated ATF Agents in the past and recent now watching their p's and q's.

ATF was never able to self-police or control these people, now they are. ATF was never able to discipline these people, now they are.

Discipline comes in many shapes and styles. What may appear to be an accomodation is many times discipline if you read between and behind the lines.

From CleanupATF:

Merry Christmas and a Safe and Happy New Year.
As we approach the end of 2009 much has happened in our Bureau. Most is positive and moving toward the future. It is only with your participation that we have helped effect this change. In the weeks to come, we will be setting some goals for CleanupATF and will be encouraging even greater participation. We have helped MANY ATF Agents, Investigators and employees. With your help, we hope to see a renewed and motivated ATF and the bridge the gaps with our leadership.
Again, Merry Christmas and God Bless all of you and our troops serving at home and abroad.

Well Mr. Hoover, you are in good company. Why the created position? And like McLemore and Bouchard are your days numbered?

I understand there was a town hall meeting where Mr. Melson expressed his concern for the relationships between some of the Executive Staff and ATF employees in the Boston Field Division. There was no comment from Mr. Hoover.

As for the Glory Hole in New Orleans, another fine selection for management. It is not about showing loyalty or the details of this case. It is about how does a person that has these "issues" reach a position like that when there all of these other "qualified" non-issue employees.

If this is the best of the best, the worst of the worst is starting to look good!

Pop That Zit,

Although I agree with what you are saying, you need to know about what the case taht will be aired is about. Yeah it's being aired as a "Bureau" investigation but this investigation was known as VANPAC and dealt with Walter Leroy Moody. ATF had a MAJOR role in this case from two different divisions, Birmingham (now the Nashville Divison) and Atlanta. Both ATF FBI and GBI participated greatly in this investigation. I will say Gordon is not the right person to be the ATF rep on this program, I don't recall Gordon being one of the case agents on this investigation, in fact he wasn't. There are many others who could have been chosen but that's the annoited one by PGA. I hate that we are allowing FBI to show this on their program and not, at a minimum, have a documentary on ATF's role in this case, which by the way during Moody's trial ATF had many more agents tesitfy that the FBI did. I hope that at least the program will let everyone know that ATF played a major role in this investigation. It ain't great but it's something. Oh and Pop That Zit, this isn't a slam on you just letting you know abit about the case because I worked on it a little bit.

All indications are management is doing its best to sweep this one under the rug. I know you are innocent until proven guilty and I respect that, but lets use common sense here. This is embarrassing for all ATF employees as the public relates things like this to the Bureau in general. Contacts in the Houston/New Orleans Field Divisions indicate that its business as usual-Management covering management. If a street agent or IOI did this, management would have cut ties immediately.

Eventually effective change will occur. Nothing stays the same. We've watched leadership change hands countless times. We know that problems with ATF's leadership, their lack of integrity and accountability is long term and wide-spread. I am reminded of the comforting and wise words of great supervisors long ago (80's, early 90's)"steady your course, managers come and go, big cases, big problems, little cases, no problems." To the fine group of men and women at ATF, always do what you can to help others on their journey, stand up and give truthful testimony/statements, be strong and encouraged by the inherent goodness of man, this is our true nature. We are all good but sometime an experience or two can just beat you down and you fall by the wayside and become a part of the problem instead solution. You all have helped me on my jouirney...blessings of peace and goodwill always, Sierra Donaven

ATF New Orleans - Bubble Wrap to Glory Hole - Management Takes the Cake . .

ATF worker (Acting DIO) is called kinky

An employee with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was arrested for disabling the fire alarm system in his Metairie hotel room and damaging property in the room, according to a Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office arrest report.

Russell Vanderwerf, 44, of Houston, Texas, was booked Dec. 1 with simple criminal damage $500 to $5,000 and interfering with fire prevention, after staffers at the Residence Inn, 3 Galleria Blvd., Metairie, began investigating a malfunctioning fire alarm system, the arrest report said.

A technician called in Nov. 30 to uncover the problem tracked it to the second-floor room registered to Vanderwerf, the arrest report said. Inside, staffers found the smoke detectors in the bedroom and kitchen/den had been removed and the fire horn that blares alarms was hanging out of the wall.

But the staffers and a deputy sheriff called to investigate also discovered that someone had removed the bedroom door from its hinges and replaced it with a 5-by-4-foot makeshift plywood door that had been affixed to the frame and the drywall with hinges and screws, the arrest report said.

The door had two locks attached from the bedroom side and a circular hole cut in it that had been padded with duct tape. The deputy noted in the arrest report that the hole appeared to be used "in some sort of sexual act."

A front-desk staffer also told authorities that she'd received a complaint from a hotel guest who said the door to that room had been propped open on the night of Nov. 30 and she noticed several "young men" entering and exiting. The guest also complained of hearing "sex noises" coming from the room, the arrest report said.

Vanderwerf was taken into custody at the ATF's New Orleans field office, located across the street from the hotel, 1 Galleria Blvd., Metairie, the report said. When questioned about the damage, Vanderwerf admitted to disabling the smoke detectors because they were repeatedly triggered by steam from his shower, the report said. He also admitted to putting up the plywood door, but would give not other details.

The arrest report said hotel staffers also found paint and caulk in the room, suggesting he might have intended to fix the damage himself.

The Sheriff's Office declined to comment on the case Tuesday. Col. John Fortunato, spokesman for the department, said the matter remained under investigation.

Vanderwerf was released from the Jefferson Parish Correctional Center on Dec. 2 on a $4,000 bond. He could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

Vanderwerf serves as the director of Industry Operations for ATF's Houston field office. The industry operations division is the regulatory arm of the agency, responsible for overseeing the inspection of all federal firearm and explosives licensees, according to ATF spokesman Drew Wade. He confirmed that Vanderwerf was in the New Orleans area on official business.

"We are aware of the arrest by the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office," said Wade, who added that he could not discuss anything that could be connected to an ongoing investigation.

Is Counsel going to keep crap like this from the Director as well? At least a G-Ride was not towed and single dollar bills recovered from his room. Maybe there was a barber shop nearby . . .

Many of you have asked about potential future class action complaints regarding the Bureaus mismanagement, attempts at constructive retirement and reprisals. An administrative action was filed in October requesting class certification. It was dismissed on several grounds. The members are currently in consultation with Attorneys considering representing the class. The will be future posting regarding what will be required in terms of number of complainants, specific complaints that are like in nature and the Bureau wide practices which may be identified to solidify the class. The initial attempts was merely an information gathering process to better prepare for an agency wide class action. Stay tuned for specifics.


I am not attacking you. I know all too well how difficult things can be when you are on the dirty end of the stick. I wanted you to address the rumors that were out there and clarify the record.

I am so sorry about the latest ATF actions. I really wish you well in your MSPB quest.

The only advice that I can provide is that you want to look to see who the witnesses are and use the information on this website to impeach their credibility.

Excellent posting. A blast to the not-so-distant past in ATF when agents worked their tails off and supervisors backed their employees to the end. Let Ariel, Eddie Benitez, Alex D'Atri and agents like them from our past inspire what we hope to be again in the future.

Many people on this website have asked what we can do to bring pressure against the failed executives driving the broken car called ATF. Regardless of what happens with ATF, as career civil servants, none of us are in any real danger of actually losing a job if ATF went away by being broken into pieces or absorbed. It did not happen with the Secret Service scare of 1982, or even after the disgraceful spectacle of our top brass lying after Waco in 1993. I sincerely doubt that no matter how many lights are shined on how many of our cockroaches, DOJ will ever take any meaningful action unless prodded HARD to do it. DOJ has been passive in the extreme when it comes to the jurisdictional battles between us and the FBI, and on firearms trafficking between us and ICE. Never forget that this is also the VERY SAME DOJ which has created our latest fiction of leadership in the form of a jobs program for “acting director” Ken Melson, a seemingly nice, highly educated and well meaning man who was nevertheless totally unprepared to lead a law enforcement agency, and who apparently needed a job after he was eased out to make room for H. Marshall Jarrett, who had designs on Melson’s old job in the Executive Office of U.S. Attorneys (EOUSA). It would appear ATF was a booby prize for him. I wonder what that says about us? If I understand things, Attorney General Eric Holder knows we have about 5,000 employees, and yet when the president declined to meet the 210 day deadline to place Melson’s name into nomination a few weeks ago, he needed a solution. Instead of burning some political chits to insist a large federal agency with a critical public safety mission get a real leader and some stability, he violated…at the very least in spirit, the process where most agencies have presidentially appointed and senate confirmed leaders by fronting Ken Melson as a SECOND deputy director, and then (I love this part), made our second deputy director (Melson) our acting director. Again. I guess we are just that much smarter than the FBI, ICE, DEA, CBP, IRS, etc., because even though they dwarf us by many times, we apparently need TWO deputy directors.

Some of what I am going to suggest amounts to a “nuclear option,” so I’d think carefully before doing it. I see three options:

1. Keep on keeping on, and allow the status quo to “work.” This seems unlikely to be effective, although it is probably causing some minor discomfort to selected members of the 5th floor at 99 New York.
2. Start feeding selected information to oversight bodies like the GAO, DOJ OIG and OSC. OSC tends to target individual issues tied to people, so that won’t really work in my view. DOJ OIG seems to have no power to actually force anyone at DOJ to do anything. Just take a look at the recent Vanessa McLemore fiasco, where a lying sociopath and repeat offender was allowed to terrorize Houston and Atlanta for years, lie under oath, obstruct justice, get a paid move to DC for a made up job, and become the subject of a genuine criminal case report submitted by OIG to the Northern District of Alabama (since all of the Georgia US Attorneys recused themselves as did EOUSA). Look at the recent explosives report, or any of the many reports before that, and see if any DOJ agency was forced to do anything. The acceptance of a complaint by GAO (which will usually take a Member of Congress requesting an investigation), or DOJ OIG might (no guarantee) prompt a deeper look, but ATF leadership has weathered many storms. They are experts at covering their backsides, and their tracks. Think about it – if they would lie in matters such as depositions and sworn statements in EEO and OSC matters, WHAT might they do if their jobs are on the line…if they think they potentially could get tossed out of their SES jobs prematurely? This option seems to be a bit more likely to get results, but not uniformly.
3. The most drastic option is also the most painful one. We are subject to direct congressional oversight by a number of Members of Congress. From a little research, it seems the Senate Committee on Appropriations, Senator Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii) is the committee chair. Senator Barbara Mikulski (D – Maryland) is the subcommittee chair covering DOJ, and Senator Richard Shelby (R – Alabama) is the ranking minority member. In the House of Representatives, the Committee on Appropriations is chaired by David Obey (D – Wisconsin). The subcommittee covering DOJ is chaired by Alan Mollohan (D – West Virginia), and Frank Wolf (R – Virginia) is the ranking member. The Senate Committee on the Judiciary is chaired by Senator Patrick Leahy (D – Vermont), while Senator Arlen Specter (D – Pennsylvania) is chair of subcommittee on Crime and Drugs, and the ranking minority member is Lindsey Graham (R – South Carolina). In the House of Representatives, Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Michigan) is chair of the House Committee on the Judiciary. The chair of ATF’s subcommittee, (Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security) is Rep. Bobby Scott (D – Virginia), and the ranking minority member is Louie Gohmert (R- Texas). I can guarantee that PGA's very own superstar AD and ASAC for all of a year Larry Ford does his best to feather his own nest, and that doesn't include being honest, so all Congress and the media hears from the likes of him is One Big Spin Zone. The truth needs to come from other than ATF's royalty.

A careful selection of materials sent to these people showing clear, unbiased and provable violation of ethics rules, misappropriation of appropriated funds, or of actual law through false testimony will get some attention, but that attention may be difficult to control once Pandora’s Box is opened. I love our agency, but we are badly out of control. Small fixes will no longer get the job done, and honest agents and IOIs will have nothing to fear from real change. I suspect that the road to correction will be very painful, and probably quite embarrassing, but I also believe that only through real change, and not false entreaties from Ken Melson asking for dialogue and input will we get back on track. There is a light ahead in the tunnel, but increasingly I am afraid it's an oncoming train.

Liza, I don't know the circumstances of your problems with ATF but don't need to. Isolationism is a part of the stratagy ATF uses to win disputes. They work to make you feel alone. They create an pressured enviornment for others who want to support you to stay quiet for fear of their own reprisal. There is validated information available that Loos has both overseen and/or participated in the fabrication of evidence to create a fraudulent defense for ATF. She is also involved in taking obstructionist measures to deny agents and investigators information that could help support an agents claim. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence available that Loos and her staff have known of fraud and corruption and has failed to report that, including perjury. Your journey will be long and expensive but if your claim is rightous you will prevail. The truth always seems to find its way out regardless of how hard they try to bury or distort it.

Awww, but Martin was my DAD (OSII) before they fired me and there were some "questionable" personnel actions that were "changed" or flat rescinded. Speak to me. Why do you say he couldn't be? Sorry to keep posting my contacts but I'm fighting for my life here and spending a fortune. or 703-216-0489.

I don't get info. When was Kumor made an AD and of what????

I have an MSPB date in January. Ms Loos is the agency's POC. Pls advise if there is anywhere I need to look before. I've tried, but obviously not looking in the right place(s). Contact info in previous comment.

Thor - I heard about the town hall meeting and my 25-year-pin. They did fire me on Oct 21st. If I misunderstood you, I apologize. I thought you were attacking me. This is very isolating but I understand that folks need to distance themselves. Please contact me if you have any advice. I am very demoralized and upset. I agree with you about banding together. I'm in. God knows, I've paid a fortune for my lawyer and lawsuits. Let's use it. I'll do anything to help anyone else not go through this. You know, not giving me access to documents for appeal, not paying me, not telling me about my health insurance, leave audits and screwing with my unemployment to name a few things. Someone here told me to buck up because MY ATF died several years ago. They were right!! They kept my last two paychecks and told DC unemployment that I was disabled. I have to get shots in my tailbone to ensure that I can walk and move now and have to prove it to get my unemployment. I have received no money for a month and a half. My mortgage company is not amused and neither am I. I wish I could share what really happened but I can't now.

Melson, are you reading any of this? Go the archives and read those. Then start at the bottom and read up. We are communicating in the only way that you and your staff have left us. Blaming us for the problems and laying it on a lack of communication is actually funny. How can we do anything but laugh about your solution? You don’t live in our world. Your middlemen lie to us and they lie to you. Why don’t you cut them out and find the truth? We know that this will never happen. Why? Because the middlemen will never allow us to tell you the truth. That would prove to you how little they know about the facts of disputes and how entirely you have been deceived by their half-stories. Ronnie and Billy fight every fight with IA and Chief Counsel. They know that they’ve been caught red-handed but what do they care. The settlements don’t come out of their bank accounts. They suffer no repercussion. They have Loos and crew fight their fights with hopes that, “who knows, maybe the attorneys can break the agent before we have to pay.” You’re letting Billy call the ball on disputes. Do you know understand how compromised he is in this role based on his personal relationship with Chief Counsel? You didn’t get to your position by being anything less than an intelligent man but how do you justify overlooking this? How did you let Ronnie pull the cover-up deals he did? How did you let Crenshaw off the hook and send him back to Seattle to continue his personal mischief there? Do you think we don’t know about that? How come agents know more about what the real deal in ATF is than you do? We know everything and it is not flattering of you or your staff. How do you tolerate your attorneys to exist in immoral relationships with your executives? Really? How do you do that? Step up! Seek the truth! Close up your bad business that’s on the books and prevent more from piling up. That is the only way that ATF is going to survive. You can be the hero or you can join the list of our other failed directors who sat on their hands, shrugged their shoulders and let the insanity continue. What do you want to do?

Thor, I was very disturbed to read your post to me. Why would anyone want to attack me with blatant lies and distort the truth? I don't know anything about a B&E charge, "compromising information", nor about resisting. You got the DUI right--in April of 2008!! You got the abseentism right but you forgot the under doctor's care part.

I can't provide a lot of information at this point because of litigation. I don't appreciate your posting this crap here when I can't defend myself. A lot of people have helped me from this site and I don't need you undermining that. I'll tell you one more thing, someone's been taking little parts of official documents that are confidential and embellishing or distorting them. Enough said.

Any questions from anyone? 703-216-0489

There was a townhall meeting in the Boston area where DD Melson expressed concern with regards to the personal retlationships between ATF employees....was he talking about Hoover?

This past week DD Melson had a townhall meeting with Billy Hoover at his side.

During the townhall on I believe Monday, he had some service awards to hand out and my mouth dropped open when DD Melson called her name and had one for Liza Beckner, who is currently administrative leave and ATF is attempting to fire her.

What can be done?

I think that we should have these management officials prosecuted for conspiray to commit RICO for running ATF like a mafia syndicate and violating personnel policies. There personal gain is promotions and those fat undeserved bonuses they receive each year. The RICO predicate offense is prostitution. This is where screwing the help comes in because it is in exchange for promotions, yearly awards or job assignments in comparison to those of us that do not have the plumbing to even compete with that.

Another option could be a class action lawsuit where any and all victims of prohibited personnel practices are members of the class.
There is a lot of historical data and evidence already in ATF's possession.

Even if we lost, I think this process would expose the corruption and let officials know that this type of behavior will not be tolerated and will be exposed.

Sorry Retired, I am just trying to get the information out there.

I will try to do a better job with spell checking my postings...

I couldn't agree more. But here is the question of the century-What can we do? I mean besides the internal grievances, EEO complaints, OSC complaints, etc.? Though I agree that most of the time the individual usually prevails, it is the long time and stressful road it takes to get there. Posting here is great and gives us all a sense of "we're not in it alone", but what action can we do? Believe me I am not saying this to mean "oh well we just have to take it? I truly am asking what can we do collectively? All this talk is good but we have to move with action in a way that will get all those on board that have reasons but are too afraid to get involved?

Can someone tell me if the Micheal Russell who passes away recently is the one who waa assigned to the ATF Academy in the late 90s/early/20s?

Thor you really need to learn how to spell and use the proper words if you're going to write in the English language

A couple of things that I would like to point out.

The post I posted was not in any way critical of Mr. Zamillo's acomplishments or career. I would love to have the same detriments as DAD Zamillo to my career and be a DAD.

I guess they finally figured out how to transfer it correctly. Initially, illegally transporting it to the district was being considered for presentation during the DIO conference. However, the fact that ATF's resources were utilized to solicit this high value gift and the high value of the gift may still not be appropriate. You may need to check your ethics training. It wreaks with the smell of it being inappropriate and does not pass the smell test.

I wanted to comment on the posts regarding DAD Zammillo's retirement. Like my screen name says - I'm a 20 year IOI. All field - no Headquarters time.

Several posts raised concerns about the gift (an engraved Colt .45). It is an unusual gift, and I understand Counsel was consulted to make sure it was done right. Rather than run afoul of the DC and federal laws, the firearm is being shipped from the FFL in Virginia where the engarving was done to an FFL in DAD Zammillo's home State (Maryland). He will complete a 4473 and background check to receive the gift. He received the empty presentation case at his retirement dinner. This gift was in the planning stages for quite a while, and yes - money was solicited from the IOIs. It was the intention that the gift come from the field personnel. How many other ATF managers have earned that kind of respect? BTW - check your online ethics training - subordinates are permitted to give gifts of higher value to supervisors for special occasions - retirement is specifically included.

The DIO conference was not held to facilitate the retirement dinner. The DIOs meet at the beginning of each fiscal year to review any policy changes and the upcoming operating plans. The retirement dinner was planned to coincide with the regularly scheduled conference. DAD Zamillo's actual retirement is not until the end of the year.

I visit this site pretty regularly to keep up on things. Many of the posts have the common thread that ATF's upper management does not stand behind people in the field. For those who do not know DAD Zammillo, he was a field Inspector and supervisor for over 20 years. He was transferred to DC late in his career. He is not someone who has jumped from job to job in order to "punch his ticket" and further his own career ambitions. Even in the position of DAD, he did not forget that the people who fulfill ATF's mission are the ones in the trenches working hard every day. You may not agree with his positions about the role of Industry Operations, and that's ok. Reasonable people can agree to disagree. As Mrs. Chuy's message pointed out, DAD Zammillo worked hard to make life better for the IOIs, often to the detriment of his own career.

Instead of being critical, maybe some of the people posting to this site should ask why there are not more people like DAD Zammillo in ATF's supervisory ranks.

We may have our issues. I don't think that they are as simple as not having a billboard on the side of the road and not having an internet presence on the internet.

I have travelled this country and I have seen ATF billboards on the side of the road announcing the gun hotlines and don't lie for the other guy.

While I must agree Facebook and Twitter are the fad of the day, it is not the only method of communication. Have you been on That is ATF's internet presence.

Our problems as an agency are much deeper than not having billboard on the side of the road and a Facebook or Twitter page/profile.

Just muy point of view.

Below you will find the text of the email sent out to the Industry Operations Investigators (IOI) as it relates to Jim Zamillo's gift, which is unethical due to its value in the amount of $1,400. This is an improper use of the government's resources and email. Of course, someone will know how much each IOI contributed and more than likely those that contributed the most will be the ones that benefit the most and, of course, Mrs. Chuy also since she organized the whole three ring circus thing. I understand the email may have made it to crooked Chief Counsel's Office. Has anyone heard what they had to say? Has anyone been disciplined because of this? While the contribution may be equal to $2 per IOI it is the value of the gift itself ($1,400) that is the concern. Additionally, the nationwide solicitation of all IOIs also.

"Hello every IOI,

DAD Jim Zammillo is retiring after 40+ years of service and we are planning his retirement party. Jim has fought very hard to get IOIs the needed resources, benefits and respect. He has always been at the forefront to promote IOIs programs and ensure that we received fair credit for our many contributions to the ATF mission (as Investigators, Area Supervisor, Program Manager, and Division Chiefs).

Here are few ways Jim’s has touched all IOIs:

1. Jim has always promoted Telework for IOIs (IOIs comprise the largest group of ATF employees on Telework)
2. Jim fought to obtain Journeyman level GS-13 for field IOIs (most other federal agencies are languishing with journeyman 11 for similar positions)
3. Jim fought to get IOI shields (credentials)which merits the enforcement respect we need.
4. He has fought to ensure money is available and appropriate for Government vehicles and equipment.
5. He has fought to get IOIs their fair share of the ATF budget for equipment and resources.
6. He has fought for IOI specific training (Advanced Explosives, Chem Pyro, IOI Safety)
7. He has fought to get AUO for A/S and DIOs

I have seen the positive image change the IOIs have taken over the past decade. We have come from being inspectors with little enforcement authority, to investigators which Congress recognizes as making an undeniable contribution to public safety. The respect we have earned is due to the IOI’s exceptional efforts in the field, coupled with Jim’s business genius at enhancing our positive image and professional evolution. Jim has positively impacted our professions and careers by continually serving as an advocate for all things IOI at the top level within ATF, DOJ and beyond.

Because of his devotion to all the IOI’s we are planning a very special retirement party as well as parting gift. We have purchased a unique .45 Colt, Government Model Pistol personally engraved for him and we will be presenting this pistol as a present from all IOIs. Please see some a picture of the Colt pistol - it comes in a presentation case (box) and will contain a special shield engraved “Retired”. It’s engraved with Jim’s initials (JAZ) and has a custom grip. The finish is Colt’s royal blue. The picture does not do it justice – it is absolutely beautiful! Mark Williams has done a great job in working thru the details to acquire this gift.

Some interesting stuff to share with you as relates to the legal issues with this gift and making sure that we do not make a “straw purchase” or illegal acquisition for this gift J. Counsel has made determination that not even a Special Agent can bring the pistol into the District of Columbia (DC has some very tough gun laws). So, the FMS Acting Chief is looking into preparing a waiver request for presentation to the DC Police Chief. The pistol has to be registered to be lawfully possessed within the confines of the District or have a waiver. As you know, there are many Federal, state and local restrictions that must be followed specific to the actual transfer. The pistol was purchased in Virginia, will be presented in DC and will be transferred to a Maryland resident (Jim’s residence). This is a complicated and untraditional gift, and as you probably already agree, this is really the perfect gift!

Knowing him, I expect he will be very moved by this gift. He will be touched by this present because this will be his first and last recognition for all he has collectively done for us IOIs. This present will be presented as a gift from ALL the IOIs throughout the nation. The Colt has been specially manufactured and personally engraved for Jim which will explain the cost of $1,400 (this was not a typo…. $1,400). A small gift when we consider all the benefits we now receive due to all the work he has done for us.

We wanted to include all 700+ IOIs and for you to know our plans for Jim’s retirement gift as well as the party. Many IOIs have already been asking how to contribute to Jim’s going away gift and the best way to organize this effort is thru one point of contact per Field Division or Area Office (I sure could use your help). If you would like to contribute money for Jim’s special retirement gift please give your money to your Supervisors (Area Supervisors or DIOs) or an assigned point of contact. I respectfully ask that you write one check for your office (this will help me greatly). You may mail one check with a note from whom it’s coming from. Mail check and note to:

Cynthia Chuy
ATF, IOI Program Manager
(Removed Address and telephone #)

If we are able to collect more than $1400 we will buy Jim some additional parting gifts from us all.

In the next week or so, a flyer will be circulated regarding Jim’s retirement party.

Thank you all and please contact me should you have any questions.


p.s. sorry if you got multiple emails, you may have been on several email groups and I didn’t want to miss anyone. (First email sent to All DIOs and A/S, next email I will send to all IOI list)

Cynthia Chuy
Assistant to AD Industry Operations
IOI Program Manager
(Address and Phone Number Removed)"

A little background, Cynthia Chuy is AD Daniel Kumor's wife. Not saying she is not qualified but there may be just a little nepotism going on and could explain why she was able to get this through without any sanctions. What do you think?

Ever wonder why ATF is rarely in the news and why we are so broke? I was driving down the Interstate the other day and saw that FBI has a billboard. I was on Twitter the other day and saw that FBI was there as well. I was on facebook several weeks ago and guess what - yup - they are there too. Even DEA has an online presence of more than their DOJ mandated web page. The more we tell people the good work we do - the more our constituents will appreciate our work product and efforts. This is not rocket surgery . . . :)

Wake up HQ!

Does anyone else find it ironic the head indusrty operations "investigator" for ATF wants to conspire to violate firearms laws? Super Jim has had a great run. He spent his life badmouthing agents at every turn, while all the while working overtime to give cars to inspectors, get them badges twice (despite calling the latest ones “shields”), making sure even if you just have a few inspectors you get GS-14 parity with group supervisors and RACs, a GS-15 for supervising 2 or 3 “groups,” approval for 10 percent AUO for supervisory inspectors because god knows that none of them will ever apply for a measly GS-14 or 15 for “only” their salary, and almost doubling the number of inspectors while the agent population has basically been unchanged for more than 15 years. You’ve got to hand it to the guy, because while Chait has been asleep at the field ops switch and Billy Hoover for years before him, The Z Man (he likes to be called that) has built an empire and gone a long way to changing this from a law enforcement agency to once where regulatory “enforcement” is fighting for control of the way we do things.

Too bad poor Jim and his cronies were not able to trick an agent in carrying his personal retirement handgun into DC for their party at Morton’s Steakhouse, because that would be illegal, eh Jim? Since the plot for one of Jim's subordinate GS-14 IOIs to go buy a gun for a resident of another state, knowing the recipient does not reside in VA, and then claim false pretenses for bringing a weapon into DC is common knowledge in the Crystal Palace, I wonder what Melson, Billy, Mark and the lawyers are going to do? Um….nothing. Jim, if you have badge, gun and g-ride envy, why don’t you do what most every agent had to do: earn it.

On Monday, November 17, 2009, it was announced that Acting Director Melson will be staying on with ATF as the Deputy Director and will be Acting Director until ATF finds a permanent one. Mr. Melson has 3 more years before he can retire. I hope that he is able to make changes that will benefit and restore the prestige back to ATF

Again, I continue to hear that there are two females on the short list.

1. Soon to be former Attorney General in NJ
2. Current Police Chief of San Francisco, CA

This is true and I may be able to get a copy of that email.

I will see what I can do.

Thanks for bringing this up.

I appreciate your post and the email.
I do not have any additional tangible evidence or input. The information was provided with Billy revealing in a meeting he has an apartment in DC when he resided in Virginia and as a matter of fact. It seemed to be common knowledge by the person who provided me with the info. This is what made it so credible.

I guess he is feeling the stress.

Billy being cleared via investigation is not credible. These people lie for breakfast and have a full course lying meal at lunch and dinner. It also depends on who the witnesses were and who conducted the investigation. I wonder what she would say in an official inquiry. I have witnessed Billy lying first hand. So, I really would not be surprised if he lied to investigators of an inquiry related to his conduct.

As has been previously mentioned in this site, these officials will utilize the "I don't know" and "I don't recall defense" in a New York minute, even if they are in Washington, DC.

It seems as though it is not only the management of the agents that think they are above the law-It has come to my attention that the Industry Operation Investigators management play by their own rules too. An email was shared with me that was sent to the personnel of Industry Operations a few weeks ago. It seems as though Jim Zammillo, DAD of Industry Ops, is retiring and some HQ personnel under his command have been soliciting monetary donations from Industry Ops Investigators by email to pay for a retirement gift that has already been purchased. This gift is a handgun in a presentation box. Interesting enough, the handgun was bought in VA, being presented to him in DC and he resides in MD. Gee-my understanding was that it was illegal for non-licensed individuals to transport or receive any firearm interstate. But rules and regulations are for subordinates not the big wheels. To top it off, all Directors of Industry Operations are in DC this week for a "mandatory" meeting. Convenient that this "mandatory" meeting in which all DIOs are in travel status for (lodging, per diem, flights, etc)corresponds to the retirement party for DAD Zammillo. What waste of money. Money that could be used more efficiently for the true mission of ATF.

You point is noted and will be followed in the future. Please remember, we are not professional computer people, we are Special Agents. We are just trying to maintain the credibility of the website. You are so right with regards to ATF employees, family members or not. The nepotism is shameful. We have received information that Mr. Hoover has been alleged to have been involved in questionable off duty conduct. As long as the same scrutiny into those actions is applied in any subsequent investigation, thats fine. Its when an Agent makes a mistake or has a lapse in judgment and gets hammered by Billy and crew, that it becomes untenable. If hes using Gov. resources of assets in furtherance of the conduct, he and whoever else is participating should be questioned as thoroughly as they have field agents in the past.

I am not sure why the EEO complaint was handled so quickly and why the victim would make statements like the ones that you attribute to her. All I know is this, as long as we have officials that are willing to waste the taxpayers dollars by committing the same EEO violatiosn over and over again. Victims will always be able to make statements like the ones you refer to because ATF will pay.

I think that if there is objectionable material in a post, it should be edited and that portion removed. I don't think that the post should be removed entirely.

I think that more interest has been developed on this site after some interesting posts.

I also don't believe that anyone is targeting any of these officials families. The truth may hurt some of their family members but I think that if they read some of the posts that are "professional" they would be hurt any way.

Additionally, if the family member work at ATF then I believe they are fair game.

I will abide by the webmasters rules but just providing my point of view.


So here's what I urge you to do. If you have a congressman or congresswoman who is on any oversight committee, whether they are Republican or Democrat, forward these damning allegations by field agents against the SES crooks to the congresscritters with the demand that they look into these charges. Don't editorialize. Don't criticize the agency's mission. Keep it short and simple. You want the taxpayer's dollars protected and spent wisely. You want these agents' complaints looked into.

I think it's a beautiful plan. I think we should try.

Your letter or email doesn't need to be any more detailed than this--feel free to copy it and/or modify it as appropriate if you don't wish to write your own message:

According to ATF employees who are risking their careers to post information on

"Managers, Counsel, Internal Affairs and staff of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (BATFE or "ATF") have repeatedly given false testimony, concealed substantial waste, fraud and abuse, abused their lawful authority, and waged systematic campaigns of reprisal against their own employees that dare to speak out. This website is intended by members of the ATF community to promote restoration of integrity, accountability and responsibility to ATF's leadership, and regain the trust of the American taxpayer. "

This is inexcusable. Please get back to me and let me know what you are doing to ensure hearings into these serious criminal allegations are conducted without delay.

Who do you send it to?

I'd start with my representatives--you can find your congressman here, and your senators here. Then, I'd contact the Domestic Policy Subcommittee of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. Here's the contact form, and a screenshot of my submission:

See, like the commercial says, it's "so easy even a caveman can do it."

Isn't it past time we made some of the abusers personally accountable for their actions? Will you take a few minutes to join me, and to spread the word?

Well said Warrior. Matt Horace doesnt get to be a SAC after all his misconduct. Steve Martin cant be a DAD after his abuses. The report is public now and she lied and admitted it, but was protected. Yes I believe if Billy or anybody else in a position with the power to impact this Bureau has acted dishonorably and without regard for our field agents, I think they must be removed. It is my understanding that Mr. Hoover IS having his conduct reviewed. I am advised that Mr. Krenshaw is also having his actions reviewed. The OIG has referred Mr. Krenshaws violations back to OPSRO for investigation and are allegedly monitoring the outcome. We will see. Can they get it right?Gleysteen and Downs are still managers and the agency has been advised BY MULTIPLE sources that they have violated numerous policies and committed perjury under oath more than once. We will see if Mr. Melson or Hoover have the stones to hold JUST a couple of their peers responsible. They know we are watching and we will no longer settle for the double standards.

Lady's and Gentleman of ATF. All of your participation on this website and day to day within the Bureau ARE making changes. As we have said all along, THIS IS OUR BUREAU. We must continue to highlight abuses and inconsistencies as they relate to the abuse and degradation of our employees and our Bureau. HOWEVER, we cannot make this a personal vendetta website. Managers eat their own, we DON'T. We would ask that you all consider the content of your postings, and remove any personal attacks against employees, and most specifically their FAMILIES. Recent postings were removed for this reason. If there are conduct issues related to Agents or managers that you feel are detrimental to the Bureau and its mission, we encourage you to post them and provide documentation. This can be accomplished by "GENERALLY" highlighting the conduct and violation of policy or procedure without specifically referencing any family members. If for example, highly placed Bureau officials are using their status or position to carry on illicit affairs in contradiction to ethical standards within the Bureau, Say so. But do it in a dignified manner and reference there off duty conduct as being hypocritical and/or unlawful. Make a formal complaint to the OIG or OPSRO. Finally, remember, this is not a tabloid website. We intend to continue to press Director Melson and DOJ to correct the horrible actions of our prior and current leadership, that is our right. If your personal goal is to exact payback against another Agent or Boss, Please do it elsewhere. God Bless ATF and ALL its Agents and Employees.

Why is Stankiewicz's victim entitled to a settlement within just months of the complaint being filed, while other ATF personnel [lowly -13's and below] have their EEO complaints languish for years before Anthony Torres could be bothered to take a first look at the complaints?
Also, when there's an out-of-court settlement, should the victim go and tell others about the general terms of the settlement, that, in other words, "now my child's college tuition is all paid for," or words to that effect?


I am not trying to put you in the spot light but there are couple of questions that I would like to ask.

1. Is it true that before you being escorted from ATF HQ you suffered from absenteeism and barely showed up for work?

2. Is it true that you broke into your deceased boyfriend's apartment to recover some allegedly compromising stuff he hadd on his computer and you charged with breaking an entering?

3. Is it true that charged with DUI and resisted arrest?

Could this be the reason that the agency wants to fire you?

If the answer to these questions are yes than no outsiders are trying to do this to you, you did it to yourself.

I wish you luck in your quest to vindicate yourself.

Don't forget that when he wants to demonstrate that he has done the job and risen like a turd, he will display the pony tail and wear his "colors" to show people that he has done u/c work. He is his own Public Information Officer (PIO).

His idea of a retreat or Supervisor's Conference was a 5 mile hike in the mountains. While Mr. Martin may be physically fit, it is about the only thing that he may have going for himself. I understand that he is not that bright.

Not a whole lot of achievements ever since and he has continue to rise in upper management (ATF's toilet bowl) like a turd.

Well to add to the names of HBO (High Bureau Officials) that can not qualify. Valerie Goddard can not qualify on the first go round and I doubt the second.

First of all, Steve Martin was not a Great Agent, he was a decent agent. He is/was a one trick pony. He had a good look. Was beginning to be somewhat of an authority on bikers and THATS it. Tried to keep his ponytail as a RAC in Oakland. When told that wouldn't fly, he cut it off and has saved that ratty piece of hair and actually displayed it for all to see for over ten years. Thats got to be a OSHA violation. His major character flaws revolved around a career long LACK of LOYALTY to anyone but himself. On the Warlocks case he threw his partners under the bus at every chance to make himself shine. He ratted them out for the little things we do to make the job happen, while doing worse himself. There was a significant IA after the case went down, and Mr. Martin would not have a job today had Malcolm not plucked him out of his problems. That didn't stop him from show boating his own efforts on the case. There were 4 yes FOUR primary UCs, but ask Martin, and it was all him. Its always all HIM. He decimated the Miami SRT, destroyed the cohesiveness of the SRT program by pressing Roger Guthrie out and has been allowed to continue his carnage. NOW HE'S JUST A INTELL GUY. He left the SFFD in a shambles, cost the bureau big dollars and crippled the morale of an entire field division. He supported headline grabbing glory cases which wasted precious Bureau resources. One case, 3 years, an entire enforcement group, $3,000,000 total expended (according to the case agent) and 12 defendants. You heard it. 12 defendants divided by 12 agents divided by 3 years = 1/3 defendant a year per agent at a PRE-Prosecution cost of $250,000 per defendant. Could any of you field agents maybe used that money more judiciously? Give me $50,000 and I'll promise 20 high end defendants right now. Its Martins need to been seen and heard NOT law enforcement that drives his decision making process. He was once asked point blank "Steve, once you've fired every senior agent in the SFFD, who are you going to supervise"? ANSWER......Ill staff the SFFD with new hires. Good call as always Steve. Maybe DAD Martin will respond to this and refute ANY of it. Heres your invite Mr. Martin. And while you are at it, what were the sentencing guidelines for the BIG Black RHINO horn aka neutrality act case?

I believe that SAC Orange was referring to was Kelvin Crenshaw. He has allegedly not qualified multiple times, but this fact has gone unnoticed because he never qualifies with his troops. If this is NOT true, it is easily dispelled by him showing up at the next group qual and cranking out a 80 or above cold bore. Otherwise, a week of remedial followed by ONE chance to qual and then fired. After all, thats what Martin and Gleysteen and York did to Tokos. Oh yeah, one final point, His second qual must be with a personal time keeper, 3 supervisors present and bearing down on his qual and a range officer. What a joke. An SES who cant do the bare minimum of the job. Maybe Steve Martin will weigh in and demand that he be fired.

While the Torreses (Julie and John), little man Edgar, Carlos, Kim Sanchez, Hugo Barrera and other hispanics only reached those levels of SES and GS-15s because they were promised by Malcolm Brady that if they did not file a class agent law suit like the African American Agents that they would rise to the top of the toilet bowl and float just like the turds that they are.

Now in their small minds, they would like to think that they earned it or deserve it but they sold their souls in order to get the positions that they have today. They have provided no leadership and not made the correct or even right choices for the agency. They collecting a salary should be fraud, waste and abuse. They should all be charged with impersonating an ATF agent because this bunch definitely are not ATF Agents.

Agent Orange,

You've got to call out the SAC that can't qualify man or've just got to say the name so that everyone knows and any incredible iota of credibility this idiot has left is extracted from his body.

We are waiting to hear from you...

I have some comments about a recent posting on leadership being needed to step in and save the day, but there not being anyone willing to do it, and also the statement age is not a factor when it comes to people being capable.

I guess I agree to a point. ATF has a surplus of high quality agents at a variety of ages, from senior 13s in the groups who hold things together (sometimes despite a lousy boss), to well respected RACs and even some ASACs and SACs. HOWEVER, while chronological age may not be necessary to succeed, it at least allows for an agent who wants to move up to at least have seen enough things to have a chance to lead by example and experience. Look at a few of the examples listed on this page in the last few weeks:

- Considering our top tier over the last few years, you have DADs, ADs and DDs who all seem to have one thing in common: they became SACs in their early 40s or even their 30s. How have they done? I would say they have largely been a disaster looking at how the agency has deteriorated over the same period. Is it age, experience or something else?

- Look at many of our 15s and how they have done. Sure, there are more of them than SACs and up so it is harder to generalize, but if you look at a few names that have been recent mentions, you have Kim Sanchez who got her 15 in HQ in her mid 30s with about 10 or so years on the job. She’s been a 15 for what’s gotta be a around a decade, and never been an ASAC, and look at what she’s in charge of! ASAC Mike Gleysteen did a few years in an arson group, and then made his supervisor bones in charge of some SRT guys before heading out to HQ for more SRT type stuff, and then got his 15 in charge of office reviews, again in his 30s. Crenshaw, Chait, Domenech, Newell, Durham, Julie and John Torres, Ford, blah, blah, blah…all picked up their ASAC jobs in their 30s, and look at them now!

- There are way too many 14s to generalize, but taking recent topic Mike O’Neil (who apparently likes to be called “Spike”) you have the poster boy for why our AC system is jacked up. In the LA division he came on from some small agency as a lateral 12, was an agent for less than a year before applying for and getting the GS-13 intel position. As soon as the guy had 10 months as a 13, he was applying for every 14 that came around! A friend in HQ told me that they would see the guy’s name on almost every promotion panel, and he didn’t get anything because people at least knew he was too green…until the AC came around. Since the AC is (allegedly) a blind selection, apparently he got the first job where he was the only applicant since ATF couldn’t prevent him from promoting and after a short time as a RAC in Ashland, he was banging in for HQ jobs. Eventually, he got one. The rest as they say is history. I guarantee you the guy will put in for every 15 that comes down the road, and eventually he will get one, and then he will be your boss or mine. Check it out with some of the brothers and sisters in Los Angeles if you don’t think things happened this way.

- ATF has spent a boatload sending people off to the War College and related schools, but what have we gotten in return? You can look all the way back to Ted Baltas, up through Willie Brownlee, Ray Rowley, Joe Riehl, Steve Herkins, Edgar Domenech and others to see what the best schools have given us. A hint: it isn’t the fault of the school; it’s the people we’re sending! Do any of these names come to mind when you think of people you really want running this place? To me, they are largely a list of different types of stupid people tricks that have been played on ATF, because the joke is on us, whether it is sending people as a retirement gift, to settle a grievance, throw a good buddy a bone, etc., this is how ATF views the War College?

Everyone asks what we can do and yells about leadership, but I’ve got to say it will never happen anytime soon unless an outside force steps in. Why do I think that? First, most of the people in authority now (and I am talking about SESers since they have the true power) don’t want things to change! They got theirs. They like things the way they are and they want to bring their friends with them. They are in The Club. They are The Man (or Woman). If you have good ideas, are respected, or want to change things, you are a threat to their authority. Believe it. With such a weak front line at 99 New York Avenue, it will take more than a few good men and women in there. It will take a very strong Director and Deputy Director willing to crack some proverbial professional skulls, demand change and accountability from the TOP DOWN, and enforce it to sweep the many bad people out that are in the way. The “Mediocracy” (think democracy meets keystone cops) we have running things now will not give up without a fight. They will sue and they will howl, and some will go to OSC and the OIG so whoever gets in those two top slots had better be ready. Only when the right conditions have finally been created and it is not suicide for good people to pop their heads up and volunteer to be part of the solution, will people do it. I bet there will be lots of actually qualified people willing to do so, but right now, it’s not a lack of courage that keeps people from stepping up, it is recognition that the odds are impossible right now until we have a real executive staff in DC, and not a bunch of narcissistic posers looking for the next big thing.

I just want to say that today I realize that a whole lot of people read this website. They may not want to go on the record themselves and contribute but they will read and laugh or smile or both. I have also heard people comment "Did you read" or "Have you read lately? The reply will be, "I sure did."

This indicates to me that some the comments made here ring true with the rank and file.

One management official said, "I am in" This guy was attempting to infer that what was in this website was not true.

I am not sure if what is in this website related to this guy is true or not.

All I know is that there is a lot of injustice, a lot of worst practices, a lot of illegal actions, and unfairness going on in ATF.

We all agree that the ship is sinking. The question is what are we going to do about it?

Update on Stankeiwicz.....

I understand that ATF settled with Stankeiwicz's victim based on the fact that Stankeiwicz was to have no further contact with the victim and when he sent out the email to the Philadelphia exchange, you guessed it, it constituted contact.

I wonder how much $$$ ATF paid? I would love to see that Settlement Agreement!

In light of the fact that we are holding responsible and accountable those from the top down.

I want to send a shout out to ATF's corrupt and vile leadership of the HR Department and Melanie Stinnett's angels Helen Oates, Diane Filler, Kim Sanchez and Chris Kopeck (Bosely).

On the outside, they are very nice and personable. On the inside, they are some of the ruthless and meanest in ATF. These are the the hitwomen (Helen, Diane, and Kim) and a hitman (Kopeck).

These folks are the ones responsible for you being taken off the Best Qualified List even if you made it fair and square.

These are the folks that support management's pre-selection of candidates. They make sure that contractor's are selected for jobs when management wants to keep them. They can't mass hire any jobs because they want to pre-select all positions with the people they want and not the Best Qualified.

These are the folks that will hook things up so that upper management's and even their sons and daughters get on the job.

These are the folks that will recruit at a minority college or university and direct majority applicants to the college to be recruited and not select one minority. Have you looked at any of the graduating classes at FLETC lately? LITTLE TO NO DIVERSITY!!

Upper management wonders why ATF is in the state it is in.... When the BQL stands for who I like and there is no committment to the Merit Promotion principles, qualifications, equal employment opportunity (did I say that), fairness, diversity, ethics, and integrity, you end up with the mess that we are in.

This is tragic, pathetic, disgusting, immoral, illegal and sad. This agency is going to hell in a hand basket, I say, when it should be at its peak with all of the added responsibilities and great investigations that we conduct.

I call for an 1811 class action law suit against ATF and all of these illegal and prohibited practtces so that if we are going to go out, we go out in style and break the bank. If we are to be disbanded, let it be on our terms and because we caused it. It should not be caused by ATF's pathetic, poor and/or lack of leadership.

I do hope officials of the Justice Department read this and take action.

Investigation continues...

It has been the position across the board for years now that the Agents are the problem and this precipitates bulldozing them under the bus wholesale. Its not Torres, Martin, Newell, Obrien, Logan, Krenshaw,Ford, Loos, Bouman, Richardson, Gillette, ITS THE HUNDREDS OF AGENTS UNDER THEM. Talk about leading from the rear. Immediate ATF response to the hundreds of complaints, EEOC,OSC, OIG, WE MUST TIGHTEN UP ON THESE AGENTS, IT MUST BE SOMETHING THEY ARE DOING BECAUSE IT COULDN'T BE US. News flash Mr. Director and Deputy Director, Garbage in, Garbage out. You don't start accountability with the secratarys and work your way up. Mr. Holders has received scores of reports of unethical conduct within the highest levels of ATF. This is not and will not go away until ethical and professional conduct starts at the Director and works it way down. We attempted to resolve many of the issues that have plagued ATF with Director Melson and Billy Hoover man to man, old school. They must come to realize, hostility breeds hostility. There are more of US (field employees who are actually still doing the job) then there are of them. All field Agents are encouraged to submit your comments to AG Holder comment box, file formal EEOC, OSC and OIG complaints when and where they are supported by fact. One day the field will have a say so in this Bureaus future and a dialogue with ATF HQ. Then the COMSTAT sellin, press conference holding, hide in the shadows, and rely on Chief Counsels office to save you from your bad decisions Bosses will go away.

I agree entirely with your comment regarding agents being mature enough to handle the responsibilities and authority related to management, especially when they have not been in the field long enough to wipe their nose.

The real tragedy in all of this is how the agency is victimized over and over and over. The agency is victimized with the selection of these inexperienced supervisors,the continuous bad judgment of the selecting officials and upper mangement, and the decisions that these inexperienced supervisors will make.

These supervisors for the most part become the attack dogs or hitmen and hitwomen of mid to upper management. If they want someone to get hammered, these are the supervisors that will do it in return for favorable consideration in a future applications, assignments, or reassignments. This is why some people feel entitled to an Outstanding evaluation, entitled to a QSI and entitled to a promotion.

This is how the Good Old Boy network works.

This is simply unacceptable.

Where to begin? Great guy, and potentially great neighbor Mike Oneil was a GS 14 over the NIBIN branch and had 8 yes you heard it 8 years on the job. A simple equation: It is probably not a good idea to promote EVER when at the end of a 25-30 career, the promoted one would have spent MORE than half of their career in management. Bare minimum should be the 10/10 rule. Our Agents are not even close to being fully developed before the 10 year mark. Then the Agency should benefits from those years of experience by relying on these Senior Agents. Then and only then should the be allowed to compete for their jobs. Vido : uninspiring asleep at the wheel. He lasted barely one year in SFFD because nobody else wanted it, and he just left it on auto pilot until he had a meltdown in the office and they sent him to a less stressful field division. Gleysteen: a couple years working an arson squad, enough yes sirs and nice suits to catapult him to early greatness. Prime example of whats wrong and how it happened to our Bureau. Clearly explains the 50+ I dont know/Idont recalls in one deposition. It was the TRUTH He doesnt know much of anything about this Bureau or its people. Gillette, Newell lack any sense of what is going on in their division and more importantly dont care. They have generated so many internal disputes due to their lack of leadership that the entire field division is said to be near mutiny. The settlements alone paid on their watch would pay for major case funding for the rest of the year. Too be continued.

With regard to Mark Logan reeceiving his Master's....

It does not matter how many degrees he has. He could have a Doctorate in Physics, Splitting Atoms, Molecular DNA and (or) Rocket Science for that matter. In the manner that he has lead TPD and represented ATF for the last seven years, not only demonstrates his incompetence, it also demonstrates that he is dumb and one of the "Good Old Boys"! (Yep the Good Old Boys are alive and well in ATF and are sending this agency to hell in a hand basket.)

This is the only way that Mr. Logan could rise to the top in the manner that he has. He does not have the skill set and his public speaking is embarrassing.

You know there is an old cliche that simply says "Shit floats!" This may be his explanation.

On November 15, 2009, there is to be an announcement related to the latest game of musical chairs at HQ.

It sounds like the Acting Director will be leaving on November 16, 2009. If he is unable to stay as Deputy Director, Mr. Melson will have no other choice but to exit ATF HQ.

It is being said that Billy Hoover wants to go back to being the SAC of WFD.

It is also being said that the next Director of ATF will be a female from the outside.

I too remember the rumor of Mr. Traver declaring that he was on the shortlist for the Director post due to being in the same geographical area as the current President, when he was a Senator. What arrogance on the part of Mr. Traver! Since Mr. Traver is not a female from the outside, I doubt he is the next Director of ATF. Although he is qualified, he does know how to lie on the stand in federal court, which is a pre-requisite for executive management.

Investigation continues...

Don't forget that 8 months ago, Andy "Director" Traver told his subordinates in a RAC conference that because of his ties to Obama while he was senator, Andy was certain to be named Director. How's that working out for you, Andy? I guess if you are willing to spend a year in SFFD, and have a written deal that you get your office of preference move to a SES gig after a year of Bay Area time, life is pretty good. Instead of counting your chickens before they're hatched, how about showing some leadership?

I am glad that the SFFD was able to get rid of Vido, but again all ATF did was move there problems to another FD.

As a result, Vido is sitting in his office in Louisville asking all of his suck ups, why everyone wants to leave his FD. He is so detached from what goes on day to day, he really has no clue why people can't stand to work for him. To help him answer his own question I suggest that Paul Vido take the time to look in the mirror and he'll see the main reason. After you do this, wait until after 11:00 am and then walk down the hall and wake up your ASAC and you'll see the other. You had better do this before 2:00 pm, because after he wakes up, he goes home.

You can add Andy Traver, in Chicago to that list of young, incompetent SAC's at the age of 40ish. Here is a recent example of his "leadership"! Chicago just held a Fantasy Agent Draft! They took approximately 75% of the Agents, only the ones located in the Chicago land area (because we can't afford to move anyone) and moved them from group to group based on their popularity with a Supervisor! They even had a pre-draft meeting where the Supervisors were told the rules and order of which they were to make their selections! The Supervisors were able to "protect" 1-2 of their favorite agents (read between the lines: good-old boy-club). The dry erase board went into overdrive as the Supervisors threw agents under the bus and argued with other Supervisors in-order to trade agents! It was the most unprofessional processes you can imagine. Traver threaten discipline on any Supervisor who leaked what actually went on inside the trades! Yet, Traver, his front office team and supervisors thought it was a great idea. At the same time, Traver had his Supervisors meeting where he basically tore up HQ's and showed his continued disdain and lack of respect for all his bosses. Yet, he wonders why not one of his management team respects him. For that matter, none of Andy's counterparts (SAC's) respects him. He leads by example...No interest in ATF nor any respect for bosses! If only the agents could get a dry erase board and select their Supervisors, ASAC's and SAC. I bet the only survivor would be the Supervisor who just returned from exile, Fargo North Dakota. If only someone in HQ's gave a damn about the sinking ship in Chicago, they would clear out the front office and all participating Supervisor in this fantasy draft!!

Thor, you are on the money, bro.

I wonder if there’s some correlation between the age people become supervisors in this agency, and rotten performance? Although I think you can generally say people are being promoted too early and too fast, Mark Logan is proof you can be a bad leader at any age. It’s sad to see him in action, and I think many others can see TPD has slid a million miles from the Gale Rossides days, which only hurts the whole agency. Our current poor showing with the DOJ OIG on explosives is a great example, because when we can’t (or won’t) train our CES, NRT, EEOs and CFIs because TPD won’t do what it takes to make sure the money is properly spent, we can end up looking like a 2nd tier agency in explosives work. One of these days, the failure of our people to be consistently trained and recertified is going to get somebody hurt or worse, and then you CAN BET the finger pointing is going to start fast and furious. Of course by that time, the toothless lion of TPD will be gone. For about 7 years now the guy has been in charge of TPD, so he has nobody to blame but himself. I am told he got a master’s degree while on the job and a bachelor’s degree before that since he came on without one. Kudos for bettering himself, but isn’t this a little like Nero fiddling while Rome burned? Maybe if he had traveled less, paid attention to his directorate, and actually written all his class papers, and not had his secretary do some of his work, he would be better educated. Before that, he did a really bang up job in PGA, but the response from ATF leaders? Give him a presidential rank merit bonus. Great plan!

Someday, if we are still around as an independent agency, people are going to look at the results of promoting people to GS-15 and SES jobs when they are about 40 (or in some cases FAR LESS). How do you think some of those “Got my SAC job at 40 or below” will be seen? In case you are wondering, here are a few that I have heard are on that Fab-40 list: BJ Zapor, Bill McMahon, Bill Newell, Kelvin Crenshaw, Mark Potter, Edgar Domenech, Larry Ford, etc. Anybody know more? So we don’t forget about the current guys on top of the heap, Billy Hoover got his at 42 and Mark Chait scooped Billy by a year, getting his at 41. This does not even begin to list the far longer list of those who got their 15 in their early 30s. My training officer had a ton of experience, and it was damn rare to see ASACs and SACs (and even RACs) who didn’t have some gray hair or a little balding. That didn’t make them great (I am glad to see some of the dinosaur SACs and ASACs leave), but at least our leadership had some experience, and occasionally even the respect of the agents because they walked the walk. There are way too many up and comers who see nothing wrong with pinning on their supervisor bars after 5-6 years, and the AC lets them do it. What do these people know about leadership - or ATF - with that amount of time? If they set their sights on an ASAC job or higher, there is little to stop them, especially if they are willing to move, and cozy up to people on the 5th floor of 99 New York. Is it any wonder we’re in the condition we’re in with this sort of “leadership” who allows it all to happen?

Update on Mark Logan!

I have to share this funny but sad story.....

Apparently, Mr. Logan had a staff meeting because the recent GS-15 promotion of Thomas Murray to a Division that is being re-organized for the 100th time.

Mr. Logan stop reorganizing your directorate to cover up your weakness and inadequacies as a leader.

In any case, the staff meeting was being held and the question with regards to the displacement of staff members was asked and Mr. Logan said that no one will be displaced. Well, one of the female members did not believe him and asked him would he swear on the Bible. Mr. Logan mentioned that he was some type of minister or deacon at his church but did not swear on the Bible to dispell any doubts or lack of confidence by his own employees.

This is truly a sad commentary. This is a demonstration of how little integrity, credibility and honesty Mr. Logan really has. His own staff members are doubtful and do not believe him. They have to reassure themselves that he is telling the truth by asking him to swear on the Bible.

When Mr. Logan would not swear on the Bible another female employee slammed the Bible shut!

In all fairness to Mr. Logan, why should anyone be fair to him when he has been so unfair to so many!! I say good for the employees. They need to stand up for themselves because no one else will. I hope that Mr. Logan would change his inappropriate behavior but I highly doubt it. He needs to retire today!! Don't wait for the ink to dry on your retirement papers, get out now!

We should not lose all hope for agency reform and change.

I can tell you personally that it does get better. When some of these fossil fuel dinosaurs leave and retire with all of their prejudices and crack bad habits, it does get better.

This is why it is great that mandatory retirement age for Special Agents is age 57. Speaking of mandatory retirement age, I will be so glad when Mark Logan retires. He has done nothing but bring TPD down (since the days of Gail Rossides) and he is an idiot asleep at the wheel and is one of these fossil fuel dinosaurs with bad crack habits. Everything this guy does is based on crack bad habits. The newest deputy chief in TPD and in training to be DAD or even DD, is Thomas Murray. His daddy works or worked with ATF. This guy joined the agency in 1992 and at age 40 is already a GS-15. I too would take GS-15, if it were gifted to me. Mark Logan taking care of the legacies or members of the Nepotism Club. Mark Logan even has a son working for ATF or in a student program. Mark Logan needs to go, which is my original point. Mark Logan is known for taking care of white people and not taking care of black people in the same manner. I do not mean to inject race but it is the truth. Unfortunately, this is his legacy and everyone knows it. Everyone laughs when he goes to Noble and speaks. They know he is not sincere and disengenuos, even when he cries and whimpers. Everyone knows that it is more lip service.

As employees that care about the agency, we just need to continue to, in Edgar D. tradition, air out the dirty laundry and let the world know what goes on here.

It is the only way that things will get better and change, slowly but surely, will come to our beloved agency. We need to let these folks know that they are going to have to do the right thing and stop doing this nasty, dispicable, illegal and immoral stuff because, if it found out, it will be scrutinized on the CLEANUP ATF.ORG and they will be held accountable and responsible in the court of public opinion, which may be less than what they deserve but at least it is something. I love this website!

I have also heard from what I believe are reliable sources that ASACs Tommy Stankiewicz and Billy Blair are out of the running for their swank post-ATF jobs, both due to background issues that were “discovered” after they were named. Both issues were EEO and/or IA problems. For the record, Stankiewicz had an even better deal than reported here on CUATF because he was going to be a program manager for the seized property investigators, and that pays in the neighborhood of $170K. That’s a nice neighborhood. ASAC Blair was “only” going to get the $150K that SPIs are getting. All the divisions recently got notices about these positions and other jobs like vault custodians. The bright spot, if there is one, is that the money doesn’t come out of our pants, but from DOJ and the asset forfeiture fund so at least the bad guys are paying. The name of the contractor for this is the West River Group, and they also have the sweet deal on the asset forfeiture investigators. Whoever owns that company is making some serious bank.

As to SAC in waiting Phil Durham, it is well known he did about 9 months in the EEO office after Tony Torres was asked to take another assignment in counsel. I guess you could call that more of ATF’s “rehabilitation” for those who are in The Club, which as we all know seems to work like this: the higher ranking you are, the more ATF will move heaven and earth to protect you. In Durham’s case, he and another guy named were found by a DOJ investigation to have violated EEO laws by retaliating against a female agent in the Washington Division. ATF even had to post the notice from DOJ stating that the duo screwed up. I guess that was ATF's weird way of saying Durham had repaid his debt for violating federal law. Maybe this is just the latest example of the old saying “screw up, move up,” but it sure didn’t hurt Phil Durham, since he is on his way to New Orleans with the gold washroom key.

The whole AC system for 14s and 15s is a joke. I have a friend who was personally sitting in a meeting with Director Melson and ATF’s so called Strategic Leadership Team when the subject of ADs and others leaking AC selection criteria came up. This is where the selecting official gets to pick 3 or 4 things most important to them, and all of a sudden, the person they really wanted all along magically has those as their high points. Maybe this is not enough to guarantee their buddy gets selected, but it can tilt the balance. My friend said s/he could tell Melson was unhappy because he said that he would not tolerate such actions and the people doing such things were known, and had better stop doing it. I appreciate that Melson was unhappy, but COME ON. That’s it? Where I come from, this is unethical to say the least. You give or get a butt-chewing for a screw up, but rigging the promotion system makes me sick to my stomach, and probably accounts for some of the group of ethically challenged and sometimes clueless people we have at the GS-14 to SES level. I should say that there are bosses out there who give a damn, work hard, are ethical, and support their people when they should, but far fewer than I would like to see. Maybe it isn’t a classic Giglio/Henthorn issue, but I think it is. How can you claim to have integrity and credibility as a federal law enforcement officer and yet lie and cheat on a system which is supposed to give us our future leaders? To me, this is more of the garbage in – garbage out system that is going to prevent us from ever becoming the agency we should be.

Speaking about the Assessment Center

Let me tell you about the unethical ways that this process is defeated.

*First, the assessors are intentionally misassessing. I don't mean to paint everyone with such a broad brush but this does happen, when convenient. If you have done it, then I am talking about you. Assessors are assessing their buddies and they are giving them high scores or giving them an edge by telling them the answer to the exercises. If they dislike you or think you are a threat whether false, they tend to mark you low. Everyone claims that the Assessment Center system is fair but that is a bunch of bull!

*Second, the selecting officials are pre-selecting. Once the AC scores are provided, the selecting officials will ask the candidate that they want to select whether they passed the Assessment Center and can they bring their results in so they can see them. The selecting official will review their candidates'results. The selecting official will indicate that he is looking for a candidate that scored the highest in the specific competency area that their pre-selected candidate scored high in. 9 times out of 10, they will get the candidate that they pre-selected. This is an unfair advantage. This is unethical. This is dirty. This is unfair. This goes against the Merit Promotion principles. If it were your sons and daughters being the subject or victims of this illegal hiring practice, you would not tolerate or stand for it. The Assessment Center GS-15 should be abolished.

How much longer will we have to live with a hiring system that lacks the integrity necessary to ensure that we truly get the best qualified for a job? How much longer must those of us that have more integrity in one of our pinky fingers than most ATF executives (DD, ADs, SACs, and ASACs)have in their entire bodies? (don't mean to paint all of the executives with the same brush) If you have ever engaged in any of the above practices, I am talking about you.
If you truly want to make this agency a better place, please stop it. The folks that are being hand picked are sending this agency to hell. Pretty soon, there will be no more ATF if this crap continues. STOP NOW!!! STOP IT WHILE YOU CAN!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!

To answer your question, I understand that he was fired. Who wouldn't be? If you are promised a $150k contractor's job in exchange for retiring and you don't get to keep the job, you would be upset too!

Just some reinforcement to what Blackhawk is saying....

You are right with regards to personnel! They are the worse bunch of them all. They see on a regular basis the injustices and illegal personnel practices that occur and that are committed on a daily basis and look the other way.

If you say Phil Durham has all of this EEO baggage, why was he assigned to the EEO Office?

To respond to Jay with regards to not revealing your identity...

You know if we do we are toast in the agency and they will do everything in their power to get back at you. Unlike you, I don't have a pending lawsuit or dispute with the agency. I love the Bureau too! Its just that the Bureau does not love me back! Therefore, this site has provided me with the opportunity to get this all off my chest and out to the open.

You know Gary Ingle is retiring at the end of this month, if he has not done so already. It is unfortunate that an ATF veteran, like Ingle, has to leave this agency angry and bitter. Mr. Ingle can not stand to watch all of the injustices that occur when it comes to personnel actions and selections. As he has indicated himself, the Assessment Center GS-15 is a sham and should be abolished.

You see when you let them know that you know what they are doing, it takes their power away.

Brother, that was an outstanding response. The question remains: did Stankiewicz get to keep his contract position or not? One comment on this website has him losing the position due to intervention by the Director (which is hopeful for the agency), but another rumor has him keeping the cushy 150K retirement job. I want to believe the first version...but the predictable version is that he is safe within the friends and family club making the equivalent income of a seasoned anesthesiologist...all on the company's budget. Well.

ASAC Stankiewicz isn’t the first ATF boss to get a special deal, and I’m sure he won’t be the last one this year. I place the blame for these shorts of games at the feet of our executive leadership. If you think Billy Hoover and Mark Chait were ignorant of what ASAC Stankiewicz did, or that they did not know he was leaving on a Friday and coming back the following Monday as a contractor, you are fooling yourself. The buck is supposed to stop with them, but they seem more concerned with feathering their own nests and protecting the agency at all costs from the outrageous deeds committed by SACs, DADs, ADs and the DD.

I really had hope when Ronnie and Billy got into their HQ positions. I hoped because they had good reputations and knew where the skeletons were buried they would change things, not make it worse. Boy, was I wrong. The sole job of senior executive leadership is to do those things only they can do exactly because they ARE in those positions. Get the hell out of the weeds up there and start addressing the huge problems that face us.

Make some very hard choices and remove those people who have failed in their jobs. Stop recycling HQ executives back to the field where they will park themselves for YEARS until they decide to retire (Kelvin Crenshaw, Virginia O’Brien, Dewey Webb, Hugo Barrera, Edgar Domenech, Dick Chase) If they can’t cut the mustard in HQ, don’t stick the field with the problem!!! Cowboy up and deal with the problem. Look at the sorry state of the Office of Management and what they have given us with a broken personnel division, a joke of a space management branch, and a financial management division that can’t seem to really figure out where our $$$ even is. Maybe some of the people there need a professional spanking, instead of trying to award people like Melanie Stinnett with big bonuses, promoting incompetent people into GS-15 or pay band slots, etc.

PGA has done a hell of a job, too! Maybe the reason we are a non-player in the media compared to our brothers and sisters in DEA, FBI and ICE is because we think it is a big deal to get some documentaries, a story with Al Roker, some face time with Oprah, and think it is a big deal to pal around with Denzel Washington while they filmed that lousy movie Déjà vu. Instead of hiding all the tons of good stuff we do and then scrambling to send out talking points to cover our butts every time a sensitive story comes out while screaming “no comment” how about actually engaging the national and large local media with a steady diet of all of what we do? Where are the national news stories? And our legislative affairs people? We are a joke on the hill, and it is NOT because of some very good people we have there, it is because of 99 New York Avenue. We get lots of lip service but no happy ending. We jump up and down with joy for the few crumbs we get, while ICE, DEA, FBI, USMS get substantial increases of hundreds of millions or even billions of bucks. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out that something ISN’T WORKING, and this has been the case for years. The response by Billy and Director Melson? Well kids, they just gave a presidential rank award bonus to Larry Ford worth 20 percent of his $170,000 pay. Ronnie Carter got one too.

How are we choosing SACs, DADs and ADs nowadays? It seems if you are a company man, drink beers with the in crowd or socialize with Billy Hoover and Mark Chait that you are In Like Flint. I can count the number of SACs and ASAC that agents in the field respect on one hand, but if you have serious EEO baggage (Matt Horace and Phil Durham being recent examples), it is no big deal. What does the 5th floor at 99 New York do with problem executives and GS-15s? They “rehabilitate” them. Where is YOUR accountability, Director? Why is it people with EEO issues and internal affairs issues (Vanessa McLemore, Kelvin Crenshaw and Tommy Stankiewicz come to mind) get a pass? I would be burned at the stake for doing what they have done, but what was done to address these sorts of problems? What we see from the cheap seats is wasted taxpayer money for trips back to the west coast and Texas (Kelvin and Ronnie), huge expenses for TDY assignments (Ronnie, McLemore and Stankiewicz) and cushy jobs (Stankiewicz and New Orleans ASAC Billy Blair). I bet you some of this money could be used to buy more cars, pay for needed office space, (and not those like SAC John Torres with his frosted glass doors and private bathroom) give us more agent cashier and mission travel funds, etc. What does ATF get in return for sending Edgar Domenech to the war college and John Torres to the FBI national academy other than to try and buy people off or settle some lawsuits? How much money are we going to spend in a few weeks to fly every DIO in the country in for the “official business” of a "DIO conference" that just happens to coincide with Super Inspector (oh sorry, I mean “investigator”) DAD Jim Zammillo's retirement? $25,000 or more I would bet. That sort of thing may seem small but we are watching you and to us it stinks.

I expect that you are going to ride off into the sunset in mid-November, Mr. Director, which is a little sad, because you were slow to act, but at least showed some promise. If you really want to clean up ATF, you better start at the top, because the fish stinks from the head down. Get rid of executives who can’t get the job done or show REAL results. Stop promoting or moving people who are barely breathing or who have scandal baggage. Have a promotion system that is based on real performance and not one that has a few hours of phony-baloney exercises and is mostly designed to prevent us from being sued. We have some awesome talent in this agency from the newest agents to senior executives, but until you kill off the old and pathetic way of doing business and demand results, we are screwed.

Brothers and Sisters:

With respect to the recent traffic I am requesting a fact check. Was Tom Stankiewicz' "sweet deal in the face of discipline" contract IN FACT cancelled by HQ? I have heard more than one variation of the Philly debacle. Furthermore I heard that there were several smokin' hot deals being offered to other dead-weight executive types on the brink of retirement (and for the sake of SES retirement plus "special country club members only" contract equals about 250K a year--you know, like, sky rocketing an empty suit toadie to high professional wealth for their years of careerist insecurity). I hope the Director actually visits this website, folks...but I sincerely doubt that any executive does (thus, the SES catch phrase "I am not going to entertain or encourage that disgruntled dribble").

ASAC Russ May.

I'd like to see Mr. Chait and Mr. Melson apologize to my brother about the way his rights were violated by The Cousin.

In a recent contract that the Agency entered into and under Terry Clark's watch, I understand.

The agency had to pay $45k in order to get out of a contract that had already been obligated but not cancelled in time to get out of paying a cancellation fee.

This is truly waste in its worst form!! This is tragic and unfortunate.

Here is the email that Mr. Stankiewicz sent out to the Philadelphia exchange, including his victim. Prior to his retirement and after sliding into that sweet $150k contractor's job at ATF HQ and as a consequence of his own decisions, Mr. Stankiewicz should have been let go and not hired as a contractor,respectively. So here it is, in Mr. Stankiewicz' own words...."It so hard to say goodbye to yesterday...":

From: Stankiewicz, Thomas L.
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:23 AM
To: All Phila Exchange
Subject: Retirement

To all,

I wanted to take this opportunity to advise all of you of my upcoming retirement, effective October 3, 2009. Any departure always comes with mixed emotions. I have spent the past 29 years of my life in government service and enjoyed every minute of it. In 1980, I served as an ATF intern in the Philadelphia Field Division and I dreamed of being an agent from that point on.

If you work hard dreams can come true. I have had a wonderful and memorable career. At ATF, our purpose is to make a difference-reduce violent crime and make our neighborhoods safer. Hopefully, I played some small part in that. As an ASAC, one of the things that I truly valued was to sit on every interview and promotion panel as I felt it so important to let you know that hiring the right people (you) for the ATF family was special. I believe that the legacy of any leader can be demonstrated by who he hired. I feel confident in leaving today that the Philadelphia Field Division is in great hands and it is the best Division in the country.

I have made many friends and professional acquaintances over the years with ATF. Many of you have taught me to be a better person and supervisor. I will forever be grateful to all of you. All of you have made it fun to come to work. I can honestly say I have enjoyed coming to work at ATF. I will miss my job but I will miss all of you more. It is the people in the trenches that make the difference at ATF not the Bureaucrats.

I know my departure comes somewhat unexpected but I have a new career opportunity that I could not pass up.

My thanks to all of you! I wish all of you the best. God Bless and Take care!

Thomas L. Stankiewicz
Assistant Special Agent in Charge
ATF Philadelphia Field Division
(215) 446-7804 (office)

Let me clarify a few of his statements:

"In 1980, I served as an ATF intern in the Philadelphia Field Division and I dreamed of being an agent from that point on."

What he meant to say was...In 1980, I served as an ATF intern in the Philadelphia Field Division and I knew I would be an agent from that point on. My relative told me if I kept my nose clean that I would be a high bureau official because the good ole' boy network would take care of me.

"Any departure always comes with mixed emotions."

What he meant to say was...Any departure always comes with mixed emotions, especially when I am being forced to retire and reallly do not want to. I really wanted to become the SAC of Philadelphia.
I was so close yet so far!

"If you work hard dreams can come true. "

What he meant to say was...If you work hard dreams can come true only and only if you have the good ole boy network promoting, giving you awards/bonuses, Outstanding evaluations and QSI's every step of the way.

"As an ASAC, one of the things that I truly valued was to sit on every interview and promotion panel as I felt it so important to let you know that hiring the right people (you) for the ATF family was special."

What he meant to say was...As an ASAC, one of the things that I truly valued was to sit on every interview and promotion panel as I felt it so important to let you know that hiring the right people (you) for the ATF family was special, so that I can deny minorities, drink to my hearts content, if you are a male, abuse you, step on you and, most important of all, if you are a female, sexually harrass you.

"I know my departure comes somewhat unexpected but I have a new career opportunity that I could not pass up."

What he meant to say was...I know my departure comes somewhat unexpected but I have a new career opportunity that I could not pass up. Due to the pending EEO complaint and internal affairs investigation, I must depart with haste! In addition to that, I have a cushy contractor's job paying me the same amount as my government job. So, I leave the government, collect my retirement and an additional $150k. I am still close to the good ole' boys and now can work on gettig my son promoted to SAC of Philadephia.

One of the most offensive and most despicable things that Mr. Stankiewicz did recently, after and excluding victimizing his victim and retiring only to come back as a contractor, was to request a male supervisor in the Philadelphia Field Division to organize a retirement party for him. This would only cause further damage to his victim. Mr. Stankiewicz don't you think you have done enough damage already? For right now, JUST GO AWAY!!

Mr. Stankiewicz is guilty as charged and has suffered a career death by his own hand. Although delayed, he was sentenced. One thing is to reach the end of the line, it is yet another to be forced out completely. As Mr. Stankiewicz has held so many employees in the past accountable and responsible for their actions, so must he also be held accountable and responsible for his own actions.

This is refreshing and I hope that this a new trend, which continues. This is what this agency needs! Accountability and responsibility from the top to the bottom!! We have seen in the past 10 years where only the lower level employees are held acccountable and responsible for their actions. Managers and executives violate policy and employees every day and are protected and represented by the agency. If the agency did not protect managers and supervisors when they made decisions that were morally wrong, we, as an agency, would have less complaints and lawsuits.

This is the reason why these bad decisions are so prevalent and are done without impunity or fear of any repercussions.

You got to call them by name if you know it. Shine the light on their corruption and they will go running away like cockroaches.

If Mr. Melson had not been on the ball Stankiwitz would be enjoying a cushy post-retirement/post-fireing job provided to him by the very hand that removed him. And, in doing so ATF knew Stankiwitz and the agency would be mocking the victim.

(See Joe Gordon. Also terminated behind countless EEO complaints only to be brought back by ATF to represent the agency on a national television program. The Stankewitz debacle was not an accident or oversight. It is pattern and practice for the higher ups to take care of themselves and to hell with their victims.)

AD Chait tried to slide Stankewitz the consulting job under the table even after knowing "the Stank's" termination was conducted with extreme prejudice. Chait is the guy ATF choose to lead our field operations? What a joke. Apparently integrity is not a prerequist for that position.

Where were you Billy? Why did Melson have to catch this? Really, what are you doing? How do you let this happen on your watch? We know your answer, "I wasn't aware of that." What are you aware of? You don't seem to know much about any of the events taking place under your command. Most of what is happening in ATF today you and Ronnie own. We thought you guys would be the saviors and instead you fell into lockstep with the old rule.

What does this whole situation say to us in the field? I'll tell ya. It says we can abuse you. It says even when we're found guilty of abuse we only need to FAKE a resolution. It says we can insult our victims. It says we can ignore the facts. It says we will lie to accomplish our goals.

If a field agent was found guilty of sexual harrassment would Billy and Chait find them a job on the back side. I think not. Your hypocrites with your heads stuck in the mud.

You did the right thing by terminating Stank but you immediately blew it when your good 'ol boy scheme was found out.

WE DO NOT TRUST YOU! Not to tell us the truth. Not to act with intregrity. Not to be deceptive with us. Not to admit guilt. Not to have concern with anyone but yourselves. Every time you have a chance to do the right thing you blow it and that only makes us mistrust you more.

Go away.

Update to the Update!!!!!

Apparently, former ASAC Stankiewicz felt bad about his actions. Stankiewicz is the ATF Philadelphia management official that sexually harrassed a female supervisor subordinate for about a year and whose last official act was to send a Philadelphia Exchange email, which he knew would reach his victim saying goodbye...what a loser. When Stankiewcz retired in disgrace and prior to the disposition of the EEO/internal affairs investigation, Stankiewicz secured and obtained wih the help from AD Mark Chait an ATF contractor's job paying 150k and was to live happily ever after.

Oh but wait a minute!!

When Director Melson found out about it, he immediately had Thomas Stankiewicz fired and pulled the Acting AD of Field Operations, Mark Chait, on the carpet. I understand that Mr. Chait may have been part of the hook up for Stankiewicz. Mr. Chait met with the Philadelphia female supervisor, I guess to apologize to her I am not sure.

(Note:See the connection here is that Mark Chait like Thomas Stankiewicz both served in the Philadelphia Divison. Mr. Stankiewicz on so many occasions had turn in ATF employees for wrongdoing to Internal Affairs. Mr. Stankiewicz did not want to take a bit of his own medicine. Mr. Stankiewicz's moral to his story...mess up at the end of your career so you can retire.)

Thank you Mr. Melson and kudos to you for doing the right thing! It takes a lot of courage and strength to take on such an entrenched culture of corruption. As you properly suspect, you can not believe everything that you are told from some (if not all) of the high management officials around you. They are a bunch of professional and executive liars, who only want to maintain the status quo, hook each other up with promotions, awards and hire and promote their sons and daughters. They bet on outliving the Director to continue their illegal, unethical, self gratifying, damaging to the agency and short sighted practices. I hope you will let the incoming Director know that this is what they are dealing with.

I look forward to more thunder and lightning!

Regarding the Deja vu memorandum and response, all I can say is, WOW! The problems we had as an agency in 1995 are here today, only times-10. Mr. Williams response to HQ was spot on! I knew Larry and all he ever wanted for ATF was to be proud and productive. You headquarters managers and mid-levels have ruined that for the rest of us. You betrayed us. If you think that burying your collective heads in the sand is working, think again. We all know what you are up to. ATF is too small for secrets.

Just take a deep breath and do the right thing for the right reasons for a change. Stop the bleeding. It will be good for all of us, yourselves included. Do you want to serve us under shame and disrespect or do you want to man up, face up to the mistakes, fix them and be viewed as real leaders, saviors and heroes to the field? The choice is yours. I believe I already know your safe answer to that question but nothing would make us happier if you proved us wrong. Step up, please!

-ATF Special Agent

I simply need to express to you how grateful I am about this website. Frankly, after 20 years in this agency I know how much courage it took to do this. Rest assured that you are having an impact. Keep up the good work!

Leadership at its "Best":

After the reign of Vido and Martin, which produced unprecedented levels of division, chaos and employee reprisals through the unskilled and inexperienced ASACs and RACs who did their bidding, the SFFD has sunk to all new lows. With one or two exceptions, the enforcement groups are being poorly managed, their is no camaraderie and no shared sense of mission. One enforcement group is in such disarray that the SAC, ASAC and RAC cannot manage the situation and resolve the conflicts. There is such divisiveness that SFFD management has now decided to employ a "Climate Analyst". NO WE ARE NOT TALKING GLOBAL WARMING. It's a paid consultant who's supposed to resolve everyday and ongoing disputes that in previous years would have been handled by a sit-down PERIOD. This just amplifies the need to be more selective of our managers and start with the ones who have actually done the job for more than 6-8 years. Bosses who can and will make a decision w/o first clearing it through every level of the Bureau, then ELRB, checking it out with Chief Counsel's office and then and only then making a decision. If you have to keep Counsel, ELRB, the Ombudman's Office and your DAD on speed dial, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A MANAGER. Try this, READ THE ORDERS. Why do we need these SES managers if they cant trouble shoot their own divisions and not have every dispute end up in a costly and lengthy court battle. Why don't we just hire contract managers since that's what we are doing anyway. This is embarrassing. Less frosted glass guys and more time listening to the folks who are being affected by your decisions/non-decisions.

According to my brother, story has it that President Obama's new regulations on texting while driving is related to a certain ASAC who crashed his GOV four times in five months, texting while driving. And then he gets a new car out of it???

Update on ASAC Thomas Stankiewicz....HE RETIRED!

Oh but you have not heard the last from him because he is back as a contractor in HQ!! What sense does that make?? ATF corruption at its best!!

What is your personal email???

Director Melson:
I hope that you or one of your aides are reading this. Please take the time to read MSPB documents sent to Eleanor Loos in the MSPB case of Adam Delgado VS ATF. Your legal crew told a MSPB Judge that the two agents I wanted to depose via video conference were afraid for their safety as far as I was concerned. One of the first questions asked of each agent was, "Do you have any concerns for your safety because of Adam Delgado?" Both responded "No" with a surprised sound in their voice. Why can the legal division make any claim they want when the rest of us have the Internal Affairs section come after us after we report wrong doing and work place violence threats in an official e-mail aimed at us? Why can a RAC get away with calling an agent derogatory names for a homosexual? The RAC admitted to it under oath. I am married to a woman but I have never seen more unprofessional conduct in a federal agency.

Pay close attention in the weeks to come. Counsels office has ignored their duties and oath as officers of the court for far too long. We are soliciting any and all unethical and illegal acts perpetrated by ATF counsel members. We have identified their BAR memberships to date. Any falsification of documents, and covering of unethical acts by supervisory attorneys, any misleading or mis representative documents, declarations or interrogatories to any court will be listed. As previously stated, protecting and harboring corrupt and unethical managers ends now. We will be posting emails and other documents for any and all to produce to their own attorney and or congressional representative. Former ATF counsel Richard Hurst submitted false documents on behalf of the Bureau on at least 2 separate occasions with his Supervisor Ms. Loos' knowledge. When asked to explain, he stated clerical errors. We will be posting the documents. You decide whether this is the way a Law Enforcement agency conducts business. We have emails which also may be used by those suffering unethical abuses by Chief counsels office which direct managers in how to conceal evidence on their computers. This information is currently being reviewed by the OSC. It has always been the unwritten rule that Division counsel does not get involved in personnel matters within their own division. This is so that the integrity of the working relationship between the Agents and attorneys remains professional and mutually trustworthy. Recent practices by division counsel in various divisions now suggest that has all changed. Multiple attorneys have represented SACs and ASACs related to whistle blower reprisals against agents in their own divisions. Division counsel is merely becoming an extension of Ms. Loos' shop and will act on adverse actions.

How is this for an ethics violation?

When my brother was deposed, he told the ATF lawyers that the group supervisor in question perjured himself. My brother showed them the EEO investigator reported in which the supervisor said one thing, and then my brother showed them an interrogatory submitted by the supervisor, through these ATF lawyers, in which the supervisor completely contradicted his first statement.

As you know, answers on an interrogatory are under oath. Statements made to an EEO investigator as part of an official investigator are also made under oath. So if he says two different things about the same matter, isn't that perjury? And shouldn't lawyers, as officers of the court, do something to correct that?

Or is the supervisor going to get prmoted to ASAC like that guy in Boston?

When I was directed to this blog by my fellow agents, I was, and still am hopeful that some sort of positive change comes from the truth being publicly posted.

I routinely review the updated comments on this site and it is painfully obvious that there is a serious, universal problem with ATF's SAC's being deplorable managers, that is, when they actually show up to work. The second, but equally problematic observation is that the SES club is strictly concerned with their career advancement and not with providing the tools to the field agents they need in order to work cases against some of the most violent criminals in the country.

The universal observation, from the west coast to the east coast is that as a whole, the management within ATF is egotistic, pathetic and inadequate. It just so happens that I am supervised by a prime example of the typical egotistical, pathetic and inadequate people who have minimal investigative experience, huge egos and are simply punching their tickets so they can join the SES fraternity in the big granite frat house in Washington. So when I read these posts from across the country, I know they must be true because I see the same inadequate leadership in my corner of the country on a daily basis.

My question is has there been any indication that some positive change is going to take place from within ATF? If not, has anyone heard any information that our elected representatives plan on force feeding some sort of positive change on the SAC's and the SES gang?

Believe me, the sooner the poor management within ATF is scrutinized, the better.

I am the brother of an ATF agent who has given his life to the US Government for twenty years. I can't get too specific about his story because if any bosses are reading this site, they will probably try to track him down if I say too much.

A new boss was assigned to his group. Up until then, he didn't have any problems with taking off time to take care of a sick family member under the provisions of the Family Medical Leave Act. However, under this boss, my brother started to encounter resistance and eventually hostility for exercising his rights under a law passed in the early 1990's.

I guess it was bad enough for my brother when his GS kept denying him all sorts of training requests while allowing the other agents whatever training they requested. My brother sucked it up as any good cop does. But when the GS told my brother he was denying him leave under FMLA because the GS had allowed everyone else leave during the same week as some bull**** training session, my brother had enough. He needed the time off to take care of a sick family member, but the boss didn't care. My brother filed an EEO complaint, saying that if he were a woman caretaker, there would be no problem.

Well, ATF [specifically that Torres guy who ran the EEO office] took over a year to even initiate an EEO counseling session. Maybe they were trying to cover for the GS; after all, his cousin was a HQ guy and another cousin [since retired] was at the top of the ATF hierarchy chart. My brother couldn't afford a lawyer because all his money goes to medical bills, so he fought his EEO battle on his own.

The GS started to retaliate against my brother in typical fashion. My brother, who had a sterling record in the government up until then, started getting negative and false comments on his performance appraisal. The boss put him under increased surveillance, going over every report with a fine tooth comb while allowing the other agents to submit reports with the grammatical skill of an ESL student in a Chicago public school. He even demanded to know where my brother was every minute while the other agents were allowed free reign.

Funny thing happened when the case started in the EEOC. The boss's excuse, as submitted by ATF lawyers, was that he was ignorant of the FMLA law. Can you believe that an ATF supervisor claimed ingnorance of the law? To me, this ranks right up there with Bill Clinton using the line "it depends on what the definition of is, is."

How can ATF lawyers continue to defend this case as officers of the court? Aren't they obligated to do something to correct this? Ignorance of the law is never supposed to be a defense, but I guess it is for ATF supervisors. Do you think my brother [or even me] should report these lawyers to their homestate bar associations? And how do you find out what bar association these lawyers belong to?

I think people probably come to this site and think that these stories are exaggerated, if not outright fabrications. But from what my brother has told me, either what he's encountered first hand or what he's been told by other decent, honest agents who unfortunately crossed paths with petty bosses who practice "chickenshit," I would have to advise your visitors that what is being said on this site is probably true.

Evil men succeed only when good men do nothing.

I'm an idiot. How do I find out about the things you referenced? I have tried to access every website I can for similar cases to no avail. I have retained very competent counsel, however, it never hurts to utilize sources. I just hung up with an ATF
ASAC who believes in me and knows I support field agents to the nth degree. Please tell me where to look.

Thank you so much for your reply. I've not lied about anything. I'm a dedicated employee who feels very poorly about filing against an agency that I truly love (corny but true). I have never even filed a grievance, but feel obligated to go for broke now. How can they even consider taking outsiders' words against an employee who has worked evenings, weekends and holidays to support field agents for no recompense. If you feel I could benefit from your counsel or could contribute to this webpage, please contact me at I will not be driven out of an agency i believe in by outsiders without a fight. Nobody does it better than we do, especially with the little they give us to do it with.


Without knowing your circumstances it is difficult to determine your next course. However, If you have not lied to the OIG like SAC Mclemore, if you have not produced false representations and documents to members of Congress as Chief counsels office has and if you have not been found to knowingly and intentionally disregard ATF and DOJ policies or discriminated You'll probably be OK. If you are not sitting in legal limbo in a position the agency has CREATED while a determination is made if you will be criminally prosecuted for 1001 violations, its a good sign. If you have not falsely reported your G-Ride missing from a fabricated location with your gun inside, you mistakes are probably minor compared. If you have not been found to be a manager who lacks total credibility such as those involved in the recent Office of Special Counsel report related to the treatment of Agents under threat who have blown the whistle, YOU ARE PROBABLY OK. Pay close attention to time lines. The MSPB has a very informative website. Document everything. Seek legal counsel. Pay very close attention to similarly situated employees who have NOT been fired for worse. Pay extremely close attention to managers who have been documented providing false testimony because they may be related to other such cases. Network. Information is your friend.

Good Morning Folks,

ATF is proposing to remove me. I have counsel so I can't comment. Let's just say it's devastating after 19 years with ATF. A lot of you know me and I would appreciate any guidance you can offer. They have me working from home with NO ATF equipment. As such, my access is limited to ATF email and Web T&A. I need things to file an appeal that I can't get to. If you can help, please let me know. It will be held in the strictest of confidence.

To the Agents who have posted and started to bring about REAL Change from inside the agency, you have all proven to me that ATF is an agency of Honor and Integrity. This is exactly why I believe ATF will rise from under the current dark cloud and be stronger and more successful than any other time in History.
NOW is the time to offer the Director not only your support but your SOLUTIONS. This website was first and foremost created for the field to be heard. To re-establish our standing as the backbone of the most aggressive and effective law enforcement agency in the world. Yes past and current practices, Policies and abuse of authority have gotten us here. Yes we lack any accountability above the Grade 14 level. Yes there needs to be a house cleaning. Mr. Melson has at least Started that process. Ronnie Carter gone, Carson Carroll gone, Kelvin Crenshaw gone, Valerie Goddard gone, Vanessa Mclemore gone. If we as Agents are going to expose and challenge the misdeeds of our leaders and demand accountability, then we have an obligation to acknowledge progress and forward movement.
Finally, Remember Mr. Melson is cleaning up the mess of 4 prior Directors, Deputy Directors, DADs and SACs. It is time collectively we Help Mr. Melson, offer solutions and get back to the business at hand, catching BADGUYS. We at CleanupATF have made the Director aware of our contempt for the prior acts and the division Management and counsels office has created, now lets show him NOBODY knows this Bureau better than us. Be safe Doc Holiday P.S. The Director and Deputy Director are receiving constant updates and communications.

My Dear Comrades,

We will continue this journey together calling for reform of ATF and DOJ. Change for the betterment of an agency is slow, this kind of change is always needed, moves us all forward, and keeps us current and relevant. But unfortunately, even in the face of solid direct and circumstantial evidence there are those managers willing to resist change, abort change, destroy change, through deception, and lies. Please keep your comments coming. It is my understanding that as a result of recent actions by some agents, we are continuing to gain the interest of U.S. Congress. Please remember this...there is a time and season for everything. When we started this journey, we believed that certain high ranking managers would either be demoted, asked to resign or would resign on their own as their substantial misconduct came to light. Yes, we in fact have witness these events come to fruition. This will continue. I remain steadfast in the interest of justice and continue my dedication and commitment to each and everyone of you as we soldier on together to our goal!

Peace and Goodwill.

Good evening everyone, and a special thanks to the party or parties responsible for this website. It is an extreme breath of fresh air to read so many comments from those that have finally realized that ATF's machine has been broken for many years. I served ten years as a Memphis, Tenn. Police Office/Detective prior to coming on-board with ATF and I served twenty two years as an ATF Agent, twelve years as a Group Supervisor; time served as a Program Manager in Headquarters and also a Branch Chief with Brady. Before going further I must state that ATF is an excellent Law Enforcement Agency, even without total support of management. One could only imagine how strong this agency could be if the playing field were equal and total support was provided.

Having read many of the comments, I must state that many of the comments are in the right direction; however, before changes can be made you must understand what makes the machine operate. The names that have been mentioned are exactly part of the problems within ATF however, very few will take a stand and state that the baby is ugly. The two major individuals that are still with ATF that caused serious damage for the Agency is Eleanor Loos and Tony Torres, and he has recently been reassigned. Mr. Melson is being provided with negative information as have been the Directors before him. If one would just stop and look at their leadership past and present, it shows why ATF is in such turmoil. As promotions are GIVEN, it appears many of the individuals become brain dead. Headquarters need to be swept out and replaced with true qualified and dedicated agents not just those who have kissed the ring. Positions alone does not qualify one to lead nor does intimidation. Mr. Melson, your hands are full and I am sure you do not know who to trust. Well, I will tell you, (THE AGENT). These are your go-to people, your IA's, (THE BACK BONE FOR THE AGENCY, AND YOU ADMINISTRATIVE PEOPLE),this is your bread and butter. IA who investigates GS 14's and below, IG who investigates GS 15's, Office of Special Counsel, and Chief Counsel's Office are there to protect the Agency, not to reveal the truth. If these areas could be corrected then Mr. Melson, you will become the answer to many concerns within ATF.

Finally, Billy Hover, having come up through the ranks and paying your dues, you do not have to prove anything to a group of self righteous individuals. You and I have had many conversations throughout the years and I though you believed in fairness. How could you allow or appoint Robert Champion to become SAC of Dallas when ASAC Michel Golson acted as SAC over twenty months plus? This man has payed his dues. The big picture is, first Ronnie Carter would not open the SAC job while he was in HQ's, just in case he wants to return to the Dallas Field Division (which he did)and now planning to retire. Not to mention he was on per diem for the period he was in HQ's. After Kevin Crenshaw moved to HQ's it was determined that he could not handle the position and now he is being sent back to the Seattle Field Division and Robert Champion will lateral to the Dallas Field Division. The games are continuing. There is just not enough time to speak on so many topics. I will leave you with this, the agents are watching and I commend each and everyone of you for taking a stance. IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE. This generation does not not deserve this behavior. Do titles bring about these negative attitudes, management has not and will never, be above the law. Those that are not aware, just look at the number of law suits over the years filed by agents and administrative personnel. To all concerned, please continue to take a stance, you must stand for something or you will fall for anything.


Check out this link ref President Obama hiring two new people who are supposed to make changes on the way the MSPB does business. Hopefully these new people will take the bad managers and lawyers out of ATF so that some Agents will not be afraid to come forward in fear of retaliation for Whistle Blowing. Life is too short to live in fear of wessels who hide behind their position. I hope ABC news will check out this site for a story that will shock America.

I can vouch for Eleanor Loos. She is a snake. She will do anything to protect her precious clients (ATF management), who are sometimes outright wrong and refuse to be basic human beings, men and women, and admit when they are wrong. They refuse to admit the truth.

Statistics lie and the lies are in the statistics.

“Be more concerned with your character than your reputation because your character is what you really are and your reputation is merely what others think you are.” UCLA Basketball Coach John Wooden

The Rudderless Ship in New Orleans . . .

When is ATF HQ going to grow a set and send someone (SAC) to New Orleans that is not looking to just get their ticket punched and truly take a stand for the men and women who serve there. SAC Harper just retired - but you would never know it as he was either never there and barley spoke to his ASAC's let alone his troops. Seemed he was trying to snag another transfer back to the puzzle palace so he can be with his new wife who used to work for ATF in HQ. So you can't really support your troops and call a baby ugly if needed? Likely not, as you might rock the boat that PCS's you.

One of the two ASAC's just got whacked to HQ . . Leaving a lone ASAC and Acting DOO at the helm with limited resources and manpower. Morale and a lack of leaderrship is at an all time low!

Rumor has it former New Orleans ASAC Bob Browning has his ticket in the hat. Is that the same ASAC Bob Browning that just a day after Hurricane Katrina ordered ALL of his Agents out of New Orleans because it was "too dangerous!" Unlike mutual funds, unfortunately past performances are likely indicators of what they will get.

New Orleans needs a SAC that WANTS to be in New Orleans and WANTS to be a leader and WANTS to make decisions. Let's see who they send there now . . .

I appreciate your point of view and your obvious professional military education. The bottome line in any organization or relationship is the Golden Rule. Treat others as you would have them treat you. That goes a long way in every situation. When that does not work. You use a legitimate IA section that does not send offender's friends down to investigate complaints and the legal division should uphold the law, not cover for for the wrong doers.

As an ex-ATF agent who told the truth, I wish my ATF instructors at the academy would have winked and stomped their foot right after they said, "you are required by agency policy to report allegations of wrong doing." They also should have had a sign in the room that said we really do not want you to tell the truth-we just have to say we do.

The Office of Special Counsel (OSC) attorney who told me that he made the decision to not investigate my allegations. The most ironic reason he did not want to investigate one of my allegations which states my RAC told me that, ...I would be dead if I called Internal Affairs. Since I did not call IA at that point, he could not have fulfilled his threat.

What do you think would happen to you if you told your GS or RAC the he would be dead if ….

I think the government is wasting tax dollars at the OSC if they are going to hire people who use that type of logic. ATF IA and the DOJ OIG did not investigate it either.

Also if you think about reporting any wrong doing to ATF IA, you and any of your witnesses should be prepared for the possibility to have a case opened up on you and your witness. They will at the bare minimum try to "sling mud" at you if you sling mud. I learned the hard way when the IA investigator told me he went up to interview a couple of AUSAs to get dirt on me. The ATF IA investigator was also a good buddy and former co-worker of my old group supervisor to "investigate my complaint." The IA guy was offended by my memo reporting the wrong doing to the point I had to call his boss to request that this IA guy be removed from my case. ATF IA left him to try and do me.

My GS claimed in sworn testimony that he was not friends with the IA SA.

The IA SA claimed in sworn testimony that he considered himself friends with my GS.

The same IA SA did not investigate the harassing text messages I received on both my personal and work cell phones.

The IA SA did not perform an investigation into his buddy/my GS or any of the TF agents who allegedly did wrong.

The RAC admitted in sworn testimony the he called me fa**ot on multiple occasions but he was only joking.

The ASAC gave me a letter of caution for asking the SAC to help me out with retaliation from my RAC, GS, and ASAC.

They threatened my life, career, and denied me a transfer, training, military duty, my application to the SRT, my application to become a PI, home leave, a hardship transfer and more. They are still on the job.

The government will apparently allow you to commit perjury and other federal offenses if you are a supervisor in ATF. People in Washington point their fingers at local police departments for alleged wrong doing but don't do a damn thing about corruption at the Federal level.

I am surprised that we have not seen the ASAC Tom Stankiewcz from Philadelphia, who is alleged to be engaged in sexual harrassment of a subordinate female superviosr. Is he an idiot or what? These are the types of people that ATF promotes. Another loser!!

Edgar Domenech is as guilty of the so-called "prohibited personnel" actions against him that he purported to be a victim of. After he got his $50k or more settlement, that included an assignment to the War college, you have not heard much from him and he has not snitched lately. So it never was about exposing corruption in ATF and saving this sinking Bureau. It was all about Edgar getting his. ATF is better without him in such a significant deputy director role. Loco deputy director, esta loco!!! This is the same guy that thought he should be King of ATF. Yea right!!

Confronted by difficult personalities in his administration, President Truman once pondered in great frustration “How can the country that produced Generals Marshall, Eisenhower and Bradley also have produced General Custer, MacArthur and Patton?” I think I can simplify the answer: not everyone has the same motive for pursuing advancement. All of the aforementioned generals took words look duty, country, service and honor seriously, but the first set of generals were balanced and they steadily improved their skills over a lifetime. They cared about morale AND accountability. There are many expressions that reflect their values: “Mission first, people always.”; “Number one—TAKE CARE OF THE TROOPS, Number two--GET THE JOB DONE.”; “Motivate the troops and provide resources!”; “There are no bad followers, only bad leaders!” and “Leaders do not have the luxury of morale problems—leaders must make their own morale.” Above all the good generals never lost the common touch. They always put the welfare of the troops first. They enforced strict discipline, but they did not pleasure in it. Discipline was necessary for the efficiency of the service and to maintain the order. Yet discipline was fair. Those punished for their misdeeds often respected their sentences and were, more often than not, sorry they let their bosses down.

Now the later group of generals were brave, brilliant, patriotic and highly capable, but their motives were quite different. They lusted for power and prestige. They hungered for glory. The coveted the privileges of their rank and power…and all of the trimmings that came with it. They lacked humility. They wouldn’t admit mistakes. They surrounded themselves with lackeys and toadies. They took all of the credit. They blamed the troops or civilian leadership for their failures. They feathered their nests. How many of our current executives does this sound like? Look at the staffing chart, take out a red pencil and go down the list. With my genuine respect, our good executives can sleep sound, but they have few peers to confer with. Conversely, the weak leaders have been to the best management schools, have read the best books and claim to have the best heroes, role models and mentors…but behave in the “180 degree” opposite fashion. They probably think this message is for someone else…or that this assessment is of no value or relevance.

Nobody is perfect. None of the good generals were perfect. No agency is perfect. There are truly no greener pastures. The truth is all we in government organizations can hope for is that the majority of our leaders and executives are motivated by taking care of the troops and getting the job done with the available resources (even 51% of our leaders in this category would be acceptable). Unfortunately we are confronted with a situation where the solid leaders are not the majority. Put simply, we have a leadership crisis. As a first line supervisor I am willing to do my part, but reform MUST trickle from the top on down. Bad executives cannot ask me to cover for them—our troops are educated, experienced, intuitive, and street wise—they can see right through the veil. I am tired of agency-wide morale issues being delegated to me. I am most happy in my work when I am given to a mission greater than myself with the backing of my managers, but this is becoming a rarer and rarer occasion. Is it such a mark of disgruntlement to say that I want to be inspired and supported by my executives? It is a dangerous world out there. I have proven the ability to confront the bad guys, support the case makers, give the briefings, write the SIRs, handle the paperwork, and plan the Christmas parties (and for longer than 18 months before running off to Headquarters)…but I am asking for balanced executives who can motivate with words, deeds and common sense. Ladies and gentlemen, this is not an impossible request. We are perfectly capable of righting the ship.

Kudos to all of you for standing up and peaking up. In light of the OIG report on the former SAC of the Atlanta FD, anyone and everyone facing or having been subject of any adverse decision since the investigation of that SAC has recourse. ATF Office of Inspection, what the hell are you officials doing...? ATF Office of Chief Counsel, what the hell are you officials doing...? And you ATF division heads, sacs and supervisors, what the hell? WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO YOU...!!! How can you sleep at night in the face of such blatant ethical misconduct. It's just a matter of time before Congress, Eric Holder and the media address bureau-wide gross misconduct by management and Office of Chief Counsel.

ATF is institionally inclined to retaliate against whistleblowers and those filing complaints. Always have been, always will be. Ill equiped managers can only manage through threats and intimidation because they are not trained to address conflict early on.

If what "Prophet" says is true (and I believe that it is) then any employee who was disciplined behind a Professional Review Board finding while Marvin Richardson has been the Chief, has had to battle unethical tactics used by the Chief Counsels office, or has been investigated by Internal Affairs resulting in an innacurate report while Chase, Crenshaw or Sanchez have been in charge needs to immediately appeal those disciplines, tactics or conclusions to ATF, the MSPB, the ELRB or the EEOC.

The standards expected of these gentlemen needs to exceed that of others, not fall below. If they are lying during investigations, fabricating evidence, approving corrupt investigations and/or engaged in unethical conduct they should never have been allowed to oversee judgement of others or removed from their posts as soon as those allegations were made.

ATF: So Special Agent Road Warrior, is your Home-to-Work car report in?
Agent: I don't know.

ATF: Did you check the right box in your N-Force report?
Agent: I don't recall.

ATF: Have you met your reporting requirements for documenting your investigative activity within 5 days?
Agent: I don't know?

ATF: Did you qualify with your firearms this quarter?
Agent: I don't recall.

ATF: Is your time sheet in?
Agent: I don't know.

ATF: Did you complete your travel voucher properly?
Agent: I don't recall.

ATF: How about your credit card reciepts?
Agent, Again, I don't recall.

ATF: Is your on-line training completed?
Agent: I don't recall.

ATF: Why are you wearing jeans and tennis shoes? This is outside our dress policy.
Agent: I don't know.

ATF: When was the last time you changed the oil in your car?
Agent: I don't recall.

ATF: These answers are unacceptable. I am going to discipline you and try to take your job.

Agent: These are the issues that are important to you, not me. They are not under my "area of expertise". I investigate the federal firearms, explosives and arson laws. I confront violent crime suspects. I work long hours and make many personal sacrifices to protect the public I serve. I try to convict criminals and have them incarcerated for their crimes against America. I am an ATF Agent, not a clerk.

ATF: That answer is also unacceptable. You are fired!

I read the Office of Special Counsel documents. This type of conduct starts at the top and trickles down. How can a federal law enforcement agency cover up their errors and lie to us about it?

ATF failed to address their mistakes and then held no one was held accountable is an example of why Americans don’t trust their own government.

The mistakes should have been fixed and those involved should have been disciplined. If ATF were a private corporation the CEO would be fired or prosecuted, the company would be bankrupt, workers would be laid off and they would be looking for a government bailout.

Everything changes and nothing stays the same. I began my career in the 80s. The average agent was at least 15 years my senior; most of them ensured my training was first rate down to perfecting solid criminal case reports, "the blue cover." And remember this many blue covers do you have!!! I loved it when the old guys sat around with coffee mugs and those awful cigarettes talking about the good old days. I was just a young pup, listening intently and absorbing their vast knowledge. And remember this, "big cases big problems, little cases little problems and no cases no problems." I had GREAT supervisors who knew how to supervise both agents and support staff. You see, they worked long term investigations, multi-agency investigations, undercover, and was familiar with!!!, before taking on a supervisory position. They respected support staff and even if the staffer was not the best at his/her job, they gave them perks anyway just like they did the agents. Sure, their were some incidents requiring I.A. but a lot of times the SAC ironed the problems out by calling you in and saying, "what's this I hear." I never believed that ATF management would remain the same but I did believe that management would only be better and move the agency forward in meeting it's goals, and ensuring a fair and equal playing field for all of its employees.

Stuck in the Snakepit.

I got a good one. A certain Los Angeles Group Supervisor takes issue with the travel voucher prepared by one of his agents.

The Group Supervisor has about a minute of street experience so he knows everything there is to know about all things ATF.

Does he counsel the agent and confront the error, speak to the ASAC or SAC, consult legal counsel or report the allegation to Internal Affairs?

He wrote a blue cover on his own agent and turned it in to the U.S. Attorneys Office for prosecution!!!!!

Now that is morale inspiring leadership. How many people were trying to get into that group. Can you count to zero?

Next the same guy arrives back out west with a fresh new promotion to ASAC, He promptly tries to submarine two of the best, most productive and well-liked agents in the division using another pumped up phony beef about ATF business he does not understand. The ASAC's case against his guys is so weak and filled with holes that the accused agents barely bother to defend themselves and are still quickly vindicated.

They should be laughing themselves all the way to the ATF Retribution and Reprisal Savings and Loan for a withdrawl from the wrongly accused account.

The ASAC soon afterward performs his biggest and baddest blunder to destoy an agent yet. Stay tuned. It is going to be discussed with intimate and factual detail on this site in the very near future. So far being the DD's roomie has saved him from himself but bunking with the boss is not going fix his last mistake.

The Office of the Special Counsel is a friend to ATF Agents. Read on:

Follow the link and then scroll down and find OSC case file number DI-07-0367. These are public documents that anyone can access.

The first document on the list is OSC’s letter to President Obama regarding the Agent Dobyns situation. This letter also went to the Chairman of the Senate and House subcommittees on the Judiciary and to the Ranking Member of each committee.

OSC tells the President:

“ATF needlessly and inappropriately delayed its response to and investigation of threats against Dobyns.”

“Notably absent from the report, however, is any statement from ATF regarding action taken to address ATF’s failure to adequately investigate the threats made against Agent Dobyns.”

“If ATF is to fully address this issue, threats against Agents must be pursued aggressively and officials at all levels must cooperate in any investigation. The protection of ATF’s own agents is critical to the success of ATF’s mission to protect the nation from violent crime and enforce federal criminal laws…”

(As you read these please remember, ATF had the chance to properly investigate each of these allegations themselves at the encouragement of Senator McCain. Instead they covered-up their mismanagement with a corrupt internal affairs investigation and then knowingly lied to Senator McCain about the facts.)

The next document is OSC’s formal analysis of Dobyns’s whistleblower complaints. This analysis (in conjunction with the OIG investigative report) validates that ATF Senior Executives lied to investigators and, Senior Executives attempted to blame subordinates for their own failures to personally provide any follow-up to a critical threats made against one of their agents.

Focus on the last page of the report under the heading, "Comments and Conclusions". A telling statement is documented and one that has been claiming all along, yet no one, until now, has wanted to hear it:

“I note with concern the absence of any corrective measures proposed (by ATF) to address the failure to conduct timely and thorough investigations into the death threats made against Dobyns. ATF does not appear to have held anyone accountable in this regard.”

That’s right. NO ONE was held accountable! Better yet, the same people were left in place to mismanage the arson at Dobyns’s home and the attempt to murder his family

OSC also comments:

“The support and protection of its own agents is critical to both the morale of ATF Agents and to the success of the agency’s public safety mission. If ATF does not protect its agents, they, in turn, cannot protect the public.”

The next document in the series is the Office of the Inspector General report. This has been displayed on this site previously.

The last document is Dobyns’s response to the OSC/OIG reports and conclusions which was also sent to President Obama.

As you look these documents over remember that ATF’s Internal Affairs office investigated the same allegations and an Assistant Director wrote to Senator McCain:

“… there was no evidence of (ATF management) misconduct, or violations of law, rule, policy or ethical guideline…”

“… the Deputy Director found that there was insufficient basis to support Mr. Dobyns’ allegations…”

Is this OK? Where are you Melson? Where are you Holder? Everyone sees it. Why can’t you?

Your comment is awaiting Webmaster approval.

ATF Internal affairs flew 3-4 invesitgators to San Franciscoand is currently conducting investigation into alleged misuse of metro passes by San Francisco’s clerical staff, a year old compliance inspectors motor vehicle accident and an anonymous complaint. We all know that the clerical staff are not the highest paid employees of ATF. The issue I have with this is the blatant DISPARITY. For approximately five years, efforts have been made to get I.A. and the OIG to investigate a high ranking SES official, currently assigned to HQ, for parking his personal vehicles to include a Corvette in government paid parking spaces TO AVOID ADDITION PERSONAL EXPENSE. Also, this same official failed to get a city of Chicago sticker required by law and Illinois license plates required by law and this was his second violation. It would seem that this would be a much more serious violation than aclerical persons alleged bus pass abuse. I know that the allegations regarding this official have not been investigated because NONE of the witnesses have been interviewed.

WEBMASTER COMMENT: This was posted on another website directed to special Agent Jay Dobyns from a group of United States Marines who understand honor and integrity better than most in the country or even in the world. Their message is clear: ATF management lacks the necessary traits and characteristics to be considered men and women of honor. The irony of this post is that the average age of a United States Marine serving in Iraq in combat conditions is approximately 23 years old. ATF Managers listen to the word and heed the wisdom of true Americans.

Birdmaster, the WP story is blowin' my mind. So, from us, some motivation back to you.

"Ooh-rah" comes from the places in our hearts that only Marines understand. It is conceived in sweat and nurtured with drill. It is raw determination and gut-wrenching courage in the face of adversity. It is a concern for fellow Marines embodied by selfless acts of heroism. It cannot be administrated. It doesn't come from an office or a desk or a necktie. It comes from men with their boots on the battlefield and mud on their faces. It is not about weighing the odds of personal effect before implementing. It cannot be manufactured and it can not be bought. You have 'right' inside you and wrong is never an option. It is placing others before yourself and saying "fuck it" to the consequences.

"Ooh-rah" is Marine. From me and the boys, "Ooh-rah!!!"

Peace and love to you and your family from your friends in Iraq.

After the subject of this comment left on sick leave and bragged about doing so to avoid OIG and ATF Internal Affairs questions which would surely have resulted in his being demoted or terminated, the having to shut down his website due to the slanderous information contained within it, ATF now turns to him to grab another headline.

Here is a good one hot off the presses. A national cable network is producing a story on the murder of a federal judge and the subsequent investigation. The producers come to ATF for an expert.

Of all people, who does ATF place in front of the camera to represent the agency? An ousted ex-ASAC who left the job early to avoid accountability for the malicious substance and overwhelming number of EEOC complaints. After he left he publicly attacked ATF using an 'annonomous' internet blog.

In itself this is insulting to all the agents this guy destroyed in the Atlanta, Phoenix and Denver field divisions but, it gets better.

The selection was made by an ATF Public Affiars office manager, himself ousted from an ASAC job for very questionable conduct, who just so happens to be the best friend of the ATF "expert". Turns out that the ex-ASAC being interviewed mentored the ex-ASAC in PGA.

Now it all makes sense. I will bet the program is going to be excellent. Unfortunately I will change the channel when it comes on because by using the retired ASAC as "the face of ATF" PGA has insulted every agent this guy destroyed or attempted to destroy and further placed the credibility of ATF and story iteslf in question in exchange for a payback your buddy favor.

I guess the ex-ASAC's feel like an "Orphan No More".

Walk the walk or remain silent with some dignity:
I read Inside ATF 'Attorney General Eric Holder Participates in 2009 ATF Memorial Observance', Ronnie Carters retirement announcement to the Dallas Field Division and the Washington Post article 'Undercover No More, Jay Dobyns Revs Up For A Different Fight' all on the same day.

Larry Ford and Ronnie Carter both make it a point to mention family and how important that is.

Kenneth Melson makes statements like, "law enforcement officers are the bedrock of our criminal justice system:, and "By ATF Special Agents placing themselves between the citizens of our communities and those who seek to do them harm, we give the American public the gift of freedom" and, "At this memorial observation and every day, let us renew our dedication to each other."

I was at that ceremony and Eric Holder spoke of the importance of "protecting those who protect us."

What you say and what you do are proving to be two very different things here gentlemen. Saying doesn't count and meaning it. Meaning it doesn't count if you take no action.

Family, honor, code, protection, dedication to one another? Read the Washington Post article again.

These guys are embarassing themselves and us if they think we are stupid enough to believe what comes out of their mouths is sincere. They talk-the-talk but they do not walk-the-walk.

Webmaster Note: Jay, is made up of career Agents who live for and have lived for the privalage of being ATF Agents. However, when power goes unchecked and leadership has deteriorated to a level that can only be defined as corrupt, we have the same obligation to confront it as we would violent felons. Thank you for your contributions to the Agency, the craft of Undercover work and our attempts to raise ATF to what it once was.

Webmaster, this is Jay Dobyns. I am not going to hide behind a coded screen name. I will confirm if necessary.

The fact that my employment dispute, public documents and news stories have been featured on this website has (I believe) given me the right to make an open comment.

First and foremost – I LOVE ATF. I always have and I always will.

When I think of ATF Agents I ask myself this question: How many people get out of bed in the morning, have that first cup of coffee, brush their teeth, get dressed and accept that by going to work, they could be killed, shot, stabbed or beaten?

ATF Street Agents do. And, they do it with smiles on their faces. They leave their homes and families and walk out the door everyday to seek opportunities to stand toe to toe, eye to eye, with the most violent predators in our communities.

When most people in our society run away from violence, ATF Agents run toward it. That is what makes us different and special.

ATF agents pray that the criminals they encounter will have violent histories, prison sentences, a pistol with an obliterated serial number tucked in their waistband, a sawed-off shotgun under the driver’s seat, and a trunk full of machine-guns or homemade bombs or drugs (or all of the above). Preferably a few of their like-minded friends are along for the ride.

Seriously! Who else wants to face off with a group of like that other than an ATF Agent? We are not crazy. We are simply servants of the good and innocent people in our neighborhoods who want to go through life without being preyed upon.

As an ATF Street Agent, if you don’t have the stomach for that lifestyle then today is a good day to find another job. Make no mistake, this is what we do. We handle America’s business of fighting violent crime and it is not always pleasant.

My dispute with ATF asks only that when the violence we encounter comes back to us – and more importantly to our families and on our homes – we are treated with respect by the agency we so willingly serve.

I thank the webmaster, this website and those responsible for it for your support.

All my best wishes, hopes, and prayers for every ATF Agent - my brothers and sisters - who view this site and read this message, whether you agree with the position that I have taken regarding my agency dispute or not.

Much love,
Jay Dobyns


Ricardo3 wrote:
The moral of the story is don't accept a dangerous job on behalf of the government, and then expect the goverment to protect you and your family 24/7 the rest of your life. From the government's point of view, it's cheaper to cut you loose when you are no longer useful to them. And it causes less headaches for the higher-ups; one less problem on their desks. If you complain, they'll just bury you in red tape.

6/21/2009 6:24:56 PM

losthorizon10 wrote:
I read his book- it's a great read. Dobyn's plight is not unlike that of the undercover government agent in "Under and Alone" either.

It seems that senior federal law enforcement officials just aren't comfortable with the men who show true courage and sacrifice. Maybe they feel intimidated or shamed by their own lack? Instead, they play the game of "climbing the ladder" and kissing the behinds of their superiors, and put the job of crime-fighting a distant second?

It looks like the ATF failed to protect this hero... and his family. Shame on them. I hope Mr. Dobyns receives a nice fat settlement from these cowards who were too lazy to protect one of their best.
6/21/2009 1:46:06 PM

mosthind wrote:
Hard to comment without raving on. Suffice to say, he won't win in the end. The bureaucracy, the head office apple-polishers and political appointees are too many and too constant. It's the price of working the streets vice working in the office. Kinda like professional sports day you're the toast of the day, you're a wal-mart greeter.

lunasatic wrote:
Look at what the rest of us are getting for trusting the government. Why would we expect any different from our policing agencies? The classic definition of insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting different results. We keep electing the officials that are already paid for by the lobbyists, and allowing them to appoint their best buddies to whatever office they chose, and we expect to be dealt with openly and honestly? What does that say about us?

gkam wrote:
Why would he trust bureaucrats, . . especially in the money-and-drug-infested DEA? The pressures there force one into being either a crook or a coward.

NoEthicsattheATF wrote:
PS: I just read this story again. Who are these people that we allow to run our police agencies? Maybe they should get out of their offices and see what real world of being a policeman is like or have someone threatend to rape their wife and then be ignored. What have we come to? And, before all you e-bikers and e-thugs, start posting your e-threats and derogatory comments using your annonomous tough guy screen names, save it. You haters are a vocal minority. America is behind these law enforcement officers and WE DO CARE about what happens to them even when it appears their employers do not.

hdkween wrote:
No one has any idea what these men and women who brave undercover work go through. The work, at times, has its perks but far and away, the trade off isn't fair. They lose. They do it for reasons more magnanimous than most of us can fathom. Jay's work was good. Jay is good. A decent, honorble human being. My husband, Billy Queen, is honorable, brave and decent. His case worked out. Jay's did not. Travesty #2. Number 1 being the sacrifices that continue to be made long after the cases conclude.
M. Allysson Queen



There are new developments coming quickly within ATF. Our intent is to provide information in a timely and accurate manner to help restore the integrity of this agency and encourage accountability which has been far too long in coming. Former DD Carters hasty retirement, the Mexican border initiative or the illusion of the same are but some of the topics that will be addressed in future blogs, posting and comments. We will address and provide evidence of the failure of justice related to recently retired SES employees, the former Mexico Attache' and Assistant Attache' and ATF lack of leadership. We will be posting the resume's of soon to be SES SACs and explore the rumors of AD Carrolls retirment. If you have questions comments or information to support the efforts of the field employees to once again be considered "stakeholders" in our Bureau, please log on and participate.

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