ATFTRUTHTELLER, on 26 August 2011 - 06:20 AM, said:
Story goes a lot deeper than that. When ATF started their investigation they quickly discovered that the ex-cult members they were interviewing were also being interviewed by the Waco Tribune Herald. The paper was writing a series on the cult and just how dangerous they were. These ex-cult members informed the paper that ATF was also investigating the group. Finally, a meeting was scheduled with the paper. ATF SACs were there and it was thought that the paper and ATF were in agreement. WRONG. The paper intended to publish their series before the raid, so it would look like their story is what lead to federal action. I am getting all this second hand, so I apologize if it gets confusing. So, when ATF made arrangements with the ambulance service, the dispatcher was immediately relaying all information to her boyfriend at the TV station, who was best friends with the guy writing the story for the paper. Every time ATF made a change and let the ambulance service know, all the media was immediately informed. That is why the ambulance service destroyed all their telephone recordings. The paper started their series on a saturday, the worst day of the week for a paper, instead of Sunday. ATF was ignorant to think they could trust the paper. The media was not invited out there that day. This is why the media was sued and lost. The compromise with the Davidians was caused by a lost TV camera man who told a rural postal carrier that the ATF and the national guard were coming and there was coming to be a big shootout. Problem was, the rural postal carrier was the number 2 man in the Davidian compound. After this meeting, the TV camera man left the area and went and hid at his house for the next few days. No one knew what had happened to him. Most of this came out when the defense attorneys went into the compound, but was never reported by the media.
I wasn't going to respond to your posts but after slamming the media as reliable sources (and i'll agree that the media generally mis-state, mis-quote interviewees for the sake of sensationalizing - hell, i was mis-quoted one time so badly, i vowed never to be interviewed again). But to portray the media in a manner to suggest they never report factually is as bad as what you accuse them of
. Then you go on to state "I am getting all this second hand, so I apologize if it gets confusing" as if when you use 2nd hand sources, they're legitimate
the information i have is from the C-span recorded testimony at congressional hearings, a TV interview of the sheriff of waco, and lastly from a contact that was called in by both ATF and the FBI that wanted him to provide "independent expert testimony" for them at the congressional hearings. After he reviewed all their evidence, i won't repeat what he said to both agencies (it'd be too inflamatory) but suffice it that he refused to testify on either agencies' behalf. As far as the congressional hearings, they're in the C-span archives online - view them for yourself
a) the sheriff of waco, in that interview stated unequivocably that the actions at Waco amounted to murder, plain & simple. He went on to state that if ATF really believed the davidians had machineguns, why did they send their agents out there in cattle trucks and pull up right in front of the main building???? and that was confirmed in a video tape displayed in the congressional hearings. There was also the audio tape of david koresh calling into the sheriff's office at the very beginning of the raid, just after ATF started shooting at koresh when he stuck his head out the front door, asking for help, asking why they were being fired on, and asking the sheriff to tell the agents that there were children inside. The tone of excitement in his voice told me he wasn't acting - there was real fear and terror in his voice, and it sure gave credibility to the assertions that ATF fired first at Waco. The sheriff actually had tears in his eyes when he was interviewed but you could see the anger behind them. That interview is burnt into my memory.
the sheriff also stated "if ATF wanted to talk to Koresh, or take him in" all they had to do was have him (the sheriff) call koresh in. In the past, whenever there'd be a problem, he'd called david koresh and asked him to come down to the sheriff's office and he would. Or they could have picked him up when he jogged, regularly, early AM - that was from the sheriff's mouth - so don't tell me the sheriff knew less than ATF about koresh's habits.
I could go on and on - and you will still push your own set of "facts". Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but there's only one set of true facts
There was a publication entitled "THE LION" (don't recall the full title) but apparently a monthly newsletter published by an private organization for ATF personnel. Find the issues from the months after WACO and read the letters written in by retired ATF agents regarding what took place at Waco. Bob Brown, of SOF, published a number of them in his magazine. Not requotes, but actual images of the articles in their original print form.
that's all i am going to say on this subject - the last time you and i got into it, my blood pressure stayed too high for too long. Just recalling Waco raises my BP.
You can defend atf's action at waco all you want, but waco was one of the most disgraceful acts by my gov't that i'm aware of, both on ATF's part and the FBI's. Stating that the negative image of ATF at Waco was only a result of the lies ATF told afterwards is like saying a pig didn't sell for a silk purse cause ATF put the wrong shade of lipstick on it -
Question (rhetorical) : why would ATF need to lie about Waco afterwards, if it was justifiable and they action honorable?
PS - not sure how that icon of a frowning yellow sun with sunglasses got in there - can't seem to remove it -