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Did Fast & Furious Violate the Arms Export Control Act?


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#51 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:40 AM

I do need to say this for "The Shocker"...I understand the frustration!


Before I filed my complaint, I formally informed everyone from my Supervisor all the way up to the SAC and no one replied nor wanted to talk to me. You know why? Because they closed ranks.

You know what my office crime was that started all this BS?
Being a true professional, having pride in myself, being from the "Wrong side of the tracks" and befriending someone who has been ostracized.


So yes, I truly understand your point and exactly where you're coming from because out of an office of over 20 people...EVERYONE knows I'm being harassed.

Majority sits back and laugh with the harasser because I'm sure they have the "If you can't beat them join them" or the "Better her than me" syndrome. This mentality contributes to the bad behavior.

Other people turn a blinds eye to the things they know that's wrong...Why...because it's not affecting them. That's also the "Better her than me" syndrome.


I have been raised and matured in believing in doing the right thing at all cost. It's not my fault other people don't share the same integrity.


The majority feel people who are complaining about harassment is petty. It's always petty to someone else...until it happens to them specifically.

Only 1 person was willing to speak up and go on the record for me...and that individual has been harassed to the point that they decided to just take the retirement offered (ostracized individual).

I would like to also add, I have encountered people who have been harassed and their concept is because I'm not an Agent or haven't been with the Agency as long as they have...it's not the same.
Well...news flash...that's how all of this BS began.

Harassment is harassment...regardless of your job description...regardless of how long you been with the agency.
And although I'm not an Agent...I have been deployed to deadly locations...and served my country Honorably. I know of many Agents that have not served in the Armed Forces...but I don't judge them because I have the mature mentality in respecting the service they offer the country from the Agency standpoint and understanding everyone's walk of life is different.

So for me...I take great offense to the mentality of some individuals feeling their employment hell is worse than mine. That's just an example of how **it rolls downhill.
As long as one person feel another person's issues are less significant...it's that kind of thinking that adds on to the snowball effect of ignorance.

"Shocker" I do feel your frustration and understand the overall concept...if you have over 50 bad apples and only 1 good one in the entire barrel...when are you going to stop picking from the same tree?

And no...I do not believe everyone employed with ATF is corrupt.
However, when you have people putting their careers and pensions on the line to speak out and do the right thing...and no one wants to speak up because they're only concerned with themselves...it makes the silent individuals just as liable as the individuals behaving badly.

Those are the very people willing to sit back and lie when questioned. And when I say lie, I mean when they are asked what they know about the situation, they say "Nothing."

There are strength in numbers and when enough people are willing to stand together...as a collective group (Class Action)...and seek out to inform on offices like the Special Counsel, Ombudsmans, and EEO.
Those offices are reporting directly to ATF's higher ups and are only acting in the best interest of ATF. These offices are aware of the Retaliation within the agency.

People go to the Media because they've exhausted all measures of relief.

Because you see how quick Newell threw out the office of Special Counsel and Ombudsmans office as a place where people can go if they have issues. We all know it's BS...but does the right people in the right places know it's BS? That's the real question!

So in the end, I understand the frustration because it is painful to see a handful of individuals being crucified when...per the EEO office stats along...over 300 people are having the same problems and suffering in their own private "Office Hell."

...Just sayin' :D


I have spoken every word you just said at one time or another. I see you've met 'those people' and my heart and prayers go out to you. Hang in there and know you certainly aren't alone. Hell, at this point you seem to be in the majority.

#52 Jaime3

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 10:34 PM

I do need to say this for "The Shocker"...I understand the frustration!


Before I filed my complaint, I formally informed everyone from my Supervisor all the way up to the SAC and no one replied nor wanted to talk to me. You know why? Because they closed ranks.

You know what my office crime was that started all this BS?
Being a true professional, having pride in myself, being from the "Wrong side of the tracks" and befriending someone who has been ostracized.


So yes, I truly understand your point and exactly where you're coming from because out of an office of over 20 people...EVERYONE knows I'm being harassed.

Majority sits back and laugh with the harasser because I'm sure they have the "If you can't beat them join them" or the "Better her than me" syndrome. This mentality contributes to the bad behavior.

Other people turn a blinds eye to the things they know that's wrong...Why...because it's not affecting them. That's also the "Better her than me" syndrome.


I have been raised and matured in believing in doing the right thing at all cost. It's not my fault other people don't share the same integrity.


The majority feel people who are complaining about harassment is petty. It's always petty to someone else...until it happens to them specifically.

Only 1 person was willing to speak up and go on the record for me...and that individual has been harassed to the point that they decided to just take the retirement offered (ostracized individual).

I would like to also add, I have encountered people who have been harassed and their concept is because I'm not an Agent or haven't been with the Agency as long as they have...it's not the same.
Well...news flash...that's how all of this BS began.

Harassment is harassment...regardless of your job description...regardless of how long you been with the agency.
And although I'm not an Agent...I have been deployed to deadly locations...and served my country Honorably. I know of many Agents that have not served in the Armed Forces...but I don't judge them because I have the mature mentality in respecting the service they offer the country from the Agency standpoint and understanding everyone's walk of life is different.

So for me...I take great offense to the mentality of some individuals feeling their employment hell is worse than mine. That's just an example of how **it rolls downhill.
As long as one person feel another person's issues are less significant...it's that kind of thinking that adds on to the snowball effect of ignorance.

"Shocker" I do feel your frustration and understand the overall concept...if you have over 50 bad apples and only 1 good one in the entire barrel...when are you going to stop picking from the same tree?

And no...I do not believe everyone employed with ATF is corrupt.
However, when you have people putting their careers and pensions on the line to speak out and do the right thing...and no one wants to speak up because they're only concerned with themselves...it makes the silent individuals just as liable as the individuals behaving badly.

Those are the very people willing to sit back and lie when questioned. And when I say lie, I mean when they are asked what they know about the situation, they say "Nothing."

There are strength in numbers and when enough people are willing to stand together...as a collective group (Class Action)...and seek out to inform on offices like the Special Counsel, Ombudsmans, and EEO.
Those offices are reporting directly to ATF's higher ups and are only acting in the best interest of ATF. These offices are aware of the Retaliation within the agency.

People go to the Media because they've exhausted all measures of relief.

Because you see how quick Newell threw out the office of Special Counsel and Ombudsmans office as a place where people can go if they have issues. We all know it's BS...but does the right people in the right places know it's BS? That's the real question!

So in the end, I understand the frustration because it is painful to see a handful of individuals being crucified when...per the EEO office stats along...over 300 people are having the same problems and suffering in their own private "Office Hell."

...Just sayin' :D

#53 The Shocker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:10 PM

Vince, you're in the FB group's "the players" folder.

In case you wanted to know, you are rated "100% Hero".

TS

#54 The Shocker

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 12:49 PM

There is no comparison. FFL holders can retain counsel and there is an appeals process to suspension or revocation proceedings.

An ATF reform bill, sponsored by over half of the members of the Senate was slated for hearings last September. This bill would've allowed barrels in parts kits again, as well as making the standard of "willfull" harder to allege, effectively decriminalizing simple paperwork errors that IOIs have been using to put FFLs out of business for years. Their evaluations are arbitrary and capricious. The bill would've ensured that any revocation effort would have to be approved by an administrative judge unaffiliated with ATF or DOJ. In essence, an impartial authority to sit in judgement of a licensee.

The hearings were cancelled 3 days before they were to begin. No effort has been made by the newly-GOP led House to introduce a similar bill. Nor will the Senate bring it up again, for some reason.

No one seems to have any answers as to why there has been no movement on this. With the ATF currently in hot water, this legislation would be easy to get through both houses of Congress. Whether the community organizer would actually sign it is up for debate. It's not like he could lose more support.

F&F didn't start in the 90s.

Op. Gunrunner worked great from 2006 when it was idealized and funded. The reason that Op. Gunrunner went sideways is that this Chicago Thugocracy couldn't connive their way into new gun control. So the multi-agency task forces, led by one or two ATF handlers, were talking to co-operative licensees and....unlike the later incarnation of the Op....were actually intercepting straw purchasers and the guns before they got to Mexico...

Once the Chicago Thugocracy took office, the local cops and deputies which made up the multi-agency Gunrunner task forces were magically "no longer needed"...what it really was, was the idea that local cops/deputies couldn't be intimidated into silence when they realized that the guns were going across the fence into Mexico.

I know several of the locals who were on the task force. As one of them angrily told me over a few beers "I guess no one is smuggling guns anymore...the problem must be FIXED!!!!" (he was a bit POd)

Once again, Hat off to Dodson, Cefalu, Forcelli et al. I may think the agency is FUBAR, but you guys are heroes in my book.

#55 Retired and loving it

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 09:54 AM

Truth, please tell us how anything done in the 90s compares with the current dealings by the Phoenix, Houston, and Tampa Field Divisions. You need to clarify your claim.

#56 truth

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 05:38 AM

Funny how short peoples memories are. When F&F started in the 90's and ATF was locking up FFL holders left and right accusing them of illegal activities because they refused to cooperate with ATF and their illegal activities.
These people lost their businesses, freedom, and lives all because ATF was on a witch hunt.

Many honorable men where sent to federal prison and had their lives ruined by ATF and overzealous prosecutors after being set up and this has never been raised in the media.

#57 The Shocker

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 07:32 PM

And they have more blood on their hands than any other agency.

Guess they're just good at "making omlettes".

TS

"Propoganda" based on facts would be reality. No other way to say it. The facts demonstrate that ATF prosecutes more criminals, yielding longer sentences, than its sister agencies.

Home invasions, when prosecuted federally, are based on Hobbs Act violations. Whether your personal opinions deem this "dubious", your personal opinion is irrelevant and not the societial consensus of the matter and the FACTS again demonstrate that this is a very effective tool for taking violent offenders off the street. Can't imagine any law abiding citizen who would have a problem with this.

Your anecdotal opinions about different law enforcement organizations aside, there is a reason that numerous Border Patrol agents use that agency as a stepping stone to 1811 positions with ATF and others, while the inverse is never true. I'll let you figure that one out on your own though.

"Thug", lol. Cast objectivity and rational discourse aside with this one.





#58 JL2010

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 03:07 PM

"Propoganda" based on facts would be reality. No other way to say it. The facts demonstrate that ATF prosecutes more criminals, yielding longer sentences, than its sister agencies.

Home invasions, when prosecuted federally, are based on Hobbs Act violations. Whether your personal opinions deem this "dubious", your personal opinion is irrelevant and not the societial consensus of the matter and the FACTS again demonstrate that this is a very effective tool for taking violent offenders off the street. Can't imagine any law abiding citizen who would have a problem with this.

Your anecdotal opinions about different law enforcement organizations aside, there is a reason that numerous Border Patrol agents use that agency as a stepping stone to 1811 positions with ATF and others, while the inverse is never true. I'll let you figure that one out on your own though.

"Thug", lol. Cast objectivity and rational discourse aside with this one.

#59 The Shocker

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:21 PM

nice propaganda.

Every single law the ATF enforces, when they're not actively breaking them is couched in Interstate Commerce nexus language.

Since "home invaders" typically don't have an Interstate Commerce nexus, ATFs authority is dubious.

We've seen habitual lawbreakers, illegal aliens with truck loads of guns, given slaps on the wrist. Apparently, the "best agency" title isn't one shared by Federal Prosecutors ..or prostitutors in Burke's case.

The IGs office has already stated that either the FBIs arson labs, or the ATFs arson labs "have gotta go" since they are duplicates of each other. Guess what, the ATF ain't gonna keep theirs.

I'll put the courage of a Border Patrol line agent, GS 11 up against any ATF thug I've ever met. The difference is BP goes out and protects American citizens and increasingly, the ATFs SAs are at war with them.

200 confirmed Mexican citizens, an ICE agent, a BP agent...wonder what you guys do for an encore.

TS.

You keep saying this agency is broken, even with such an exclaimer as "irrevocably so", yet you know nothing of the agency. While the firearms enforcement that you so transparently abhor is a part of the mission, it is such a small part to be statistically insignificant to the whole.

ATF prosecutes violent criminals, by and large armed drug dealers, home invaders, career felony offenders. Proactive investigations that state and local law enforcement agencies cannot undertake due to a lack of resources, be it time resources, financial resources, or otherwise. Or taking offenders that the state- for whatever reason- has been unable to deal with in a revolving door song and dance with the perpetrator(s). That is the meat and potatoes of this agency, roughly 80% percent of the prosecutions referred. Nuts like you get hung up on the 1% of regulatory firearms enforcement that the agency conducts.

And ATF is the best federal agency....even in the present. That isn't even debatable. We have the most exclusive hiring process and the longest training period of any 1811 organization, including the FBI. We prosecute more criminals per agent than any other law enforcement organization, including the FBI. Our defendants receive longer sentences on average than all other federal agencies. That's TODAY, this year, FY11.....and the facts can certainly be cited if you need them.

People like you get confused about what gets discussed here. You listen to the saber rattling by gun rights organizations that in private they don't even believe (they know we have neither the time nor the inclination to ever enfringe upon lawful gun rights). Then you see people here griping about this bureau internally and you take it as some sort of validation. Nothing could be further from the truth. To a man, EVERY agent here will tell you how great of a law enforcement organization this bureau is on the ground floor and how effective we can be as a LAW ENFORCEMENT organization, which is all we fundamentally are at the end of the day.. The criticism you have and the criticism proffered here couldn't be more different, and in no way provide validation to each other.





#60 Heath Robinson

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 03:32 PM

Here is the White House petition on operation gunrunner & fast & Furious. Please sign.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/provide-transparency-project-gunrunner-and-operation-fast-furious-dea-atf-justice-department/WvBDzzgJ

Provide transparency for 'Project Gunrunner' and 'Operation Fast & Furious' by the DEA & ATF with the Justice DepartmentThe people deserve to know who authorized 'Project Gunrunner' & 'Operation Fast & Furious' What was the source of the funding & the number & type of guns? How can the ATF & DEA sell assault rifles to the Mexican drug cartels?

Does the President see this as an effective & ethical use of taxpayers funds?

#61 JL2010

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:31 PM

Actually, the prosecutions can also be found on that site. While referrals and outright prosecutions are different, the disparity only favors ATF as a higher percentage of our cases are prosecuted than most of the other agencies.

To the point of the post, however, there is no distinction. We are talking about work product and environment and referrals cover it nicely.

And no, I said regulatory stats are almost insignificant. Read a little more critically. Firearms enforcement is a major part of what ATF does, practically and stastically, but we are talking something far different than the regulatory acts that generate most of the criticism. Again, primarily g's, c's, e's, etc..

And "ATF" stats are not comprehensively provided, though the stats reported by DOJ annually are (to that research site and others, they are consistent). Therein lies the reason for the citation, which is accurate as listed unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

#62 JL2010

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 05:18 AM

The FBI referred 11k prosecutions over the first three quarters of FY11-https://trac.syr.edu/cgi-secure/product/login.pl?p_month=apr&p_year=11&p_series=annual&p_stat=fil&p_agenrevgrp=JFBI&_SERVICE=express9&_PROGRAM=interp.annualreport.sas&_DEBUG=0

ATF referred 6,600 prosecutions over that time period- https://trac.syr.edu...rt.sas&_DEBUG=0

Being that we have one sixth the agents, we are referring prosecutions at ovefr three times the clip, per agent.

Over 80 percent of the cases are g's, e's, c's and 841's....so you assertions to the contrary are provably false. http://trac.syr.edu/...ndings/current/

Of the remaining 17 or so percent of prosecutions, it appears that about 13 or so percent are explosive and arson investigations, Hobbs Acts, murder for hires, etc.

Five percent, or less, are regulatory.

We also have the largest average sentence per defendant- http://trac.syr.edu/...enmedtimeG.html

Criticize management all you want, far be it from me to say otherwise. I've seen my share as well. But the overgeneralizations and blatant falsehoods often espoused about the agency would be comical if they didn't have such a toxic value to those who do not know any better.

#63 Scooby

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 04:14 AM

You keep saying this agency is broken, even with such an exclaimer as "irrevocably so", yet you know nothing of the agency. While the firearms enforcement that you so transparently abhor is a part of the mission, it is such a small part to be statistically insignificant to the whole.

ATF prosecutes violent criminals, by and large armed drug dealers, home invaders, career felony offenders. Proactive investigations that state and local law enforcement agencies cannot undertake due to a lack of resources, be it time resources, financial resources, or otherwise. Or taking offenders that the state- for whatever reason- has been unable to deal with in a revolving door song and dance with the perpetrator(s). That is the meat and potatoes of this agency, roughly 80% percent of the prosecutions referred. Nuts like you get hung up on the 1% of regulatory firearms enforcement that the agency conducts.

And ATF is the best federal agency....even in the present. That isn't even debatable. We have the most exclusive hiring process and the longest training period of any 1811 organization, including the FBI. We prosecute more criminals per agent than any other law enforcement organization, including the FBI. Our defendants receive longer sentences on average than all other federal agencies. That's TODAY, this year, FY11.....and the facts can certainly be cited if you need them.

People like you get confused about what gets discussed here. You listen to the saber rattling by gun rights organizations that in private they don't even believe (they know we have neither the time nor the inclination to ever infringe upon lawful gun rights). Then you see people here griping about this bureau internally and you take it as some sort of validation. Nothing could be further from the truth. To a man, EVERY agent here will tell you how great of a law enforcement organization this bureau is on the ground floor and how effective we can be as a LAW ENFORCEMENT organization, which is all we fundamentally are at the end of the day.. The criticism you have and the criticism proffered here couldn't be more different, and in no way provide validation to each other.

Well, I know the agency very well after 19 years and I'd love to see your statistics--and by that I mean your quote of violent offenders, etc.--don't kid yourself, I have the real statistics. I personally compiled the statistics for the Director and the AG and your verbiage does not support same. Please lay off the fine 1811s and other personnel who go to work each day in the face of such managerial incompetence and the limited enforcement rendered under the Commerce Clause. (Do your research please before you cast a stone.) Just by sheer numbers, ATF could not have prosecuted as many criminals as the FBI. Do the math. Does ATF still enforce drug testing? Sorry to sound flippant, but your comments smack of ATF management's style of undermining and of a new employee trying to kiss ass. Feel free to contact me at your convenience at 910-568-4714. That's right...still fired for being a whistleblower but still unwilling to let fine ATF employees be subjected to unnecessary BS!

#64 jerzboy

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 08:32 PM

I just got home from the SAF Conference today in Chicago - it was outstanding. So good to see so many gun rights activists in one room. David Codrea and David Workman presented updates on this topic and the slime seems to be spreading exponentially. After hearing all of this and already knowing so much about the Obama Marxist Administrators I'm convinced that this stuff is not a result of inexperience or simple ideology. These guys are deliberately trying to create Social, Political and Economic Chaos in this Country. They are bi-passing and stonewalling Congress and just ignoring any attempts to get to the Truth - "THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH'!

Thanks to all current and former agents who have attempted to shine the light of Truth and Justice on the Justice Department. I'm very active in the Tea Party Movement and in fact my group had already scheduled a forum on the 2nd Amendment for this coming Tuesday. Richard Pearson from the ISRA will be one of our panel members. We will not rest until the Marxists are sent packing from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and all of the various Cabinet posts, agencies AND Czars. The Republic will rise again!


#65 JL2010

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 02:50 PM

You keep saying this agency is broken, even with such an exclaimer as "irrevocably so", yet you know nothing of the agency. While the firearms enforcement that you so transparently abhor is a part of the mission, it is such a small part to be statistically insignificant to the whole.

ATF prosecutes violent criminals, by and large armed drug dealers, home invaders, career felony offenders. Proactive investigations that state and local law enforcement agencies cannot undertake due to a lack of resources, be it time resources, financial resources, or otherwise. Or taking offenders that the state- for whatever reason- has been unable to deal with in a revolving door song and dance with the perpetrator(s). That is the meat and potatoes of this agency, roughly 80% percent of the prosecutions referred. Nuts like you get hung up on the 1% of regulatory firearms enforcement that the agency conducts.

And ATF is the best federal agency....even in the present. That isn't even debatable. We have the most exclusive hiring process and the longest training period of any 1811 organization, including the FBI. We prosecute more criminals per agent than any other law enforcement organization, including the FBI. Our defendants receive longer sentences on average than all other federal agencies. That's TODAY, this year, FY11.....and the facts can certainly be cited if you need them.

People like you get confused about what gets discussed here. You listen to the saber rattling by gun rights organizations that in private they don't even believe (they know we have neither the time nor the inclination to ever enfringe upon lawful gun rights). Then you see people here griping about this bureau internally and you take it as some sort of validation. Nothing could be further from the truth. To a man, EVERY agent here will tell you how great of a law enforcement organization this bureau is on the ground floor and how effective we can be as a LAW ENFORCEMENT organization, which is all we fundamentally are at the end of the day.. The criticism you have and the criticism proffered here couldn't be more different, and in no way provide validation to each other.

#66 The Shocker

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 12:22 PM

Uncalled for. The Laws that the ATF "enforce", when they're not being directed to break them, are far more Constitutionally dubious than say...protecting the Borders.

Personal attacks against someone you don't even know, won't change that.

Also, I keep thanking the whistleblowers and extending my respect for their willingness to sacrifice everything to try to hold folks accountable. The ddt group is what it is. I happen to share their opinion that this agency is broken. Irrevocably so.

An interesting parallel to ATF is how middle (sometimes not even middle) but Chiefs and AChiefs at BP become DC-bots who engage in an agenda-driven "program" of duty, with non-believers being put "on the beach" as they call it (unofficial punishment by repetitive assignment to "training" all over the country) until they "see the light" and come back to their home BP station and get with the program.

Perhaps, this kind of Peter Principle isn't limited to ATF.

Just throwin' it out there. Is it necessary to sell one's soul to move up and out of GS pay grades? Empirical evidence suggests that this is the case, in many instances.

ETA: the DDT group went public yesterday, so those of you who would like to cogently contend that the agency isn't broken can easily join and perhaps post something other than the nearly endless stream of Fast and Furious related developments.

Who knows, you might change a few minds.

lancebone1967 - you're talking to someone that likes attention, even if it's negative attention, that's still better than no attention. He's the result of either parents that wouldn't let him play with the other kids, or just didn't have any friends as a kid, and then convinced himself that his lack of social skills are a "positive". Giving him attention (and i admit i did it earlier till i woke up) just gives him the satisfaction of engagement with another human.



#67 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:58 AM

See, now you're on to something. While ATF leaders have been historically and rabidly corrupt, there have always been agents who believe that there should be honor and integrity within this bureau. These men and women have stood and will stand for this concept no matter what the personal consequences to themselves and their families. They are the reason you see the corruption. Maybe other agencies simply do not have the caliber of employees that exist within ATF.

Perhaps they need to go work for a different agency.

It really IS, just a job.



#68 The Original Ralph

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:43 AM

If it was just a job to these guys who speak out, they wouldn't speak out at all. They'd just collect a paycheck. If they go work for another agency then that leaves the agents/sheep who aren't willing open to manipulation and intimidation. There's a whole lot of ATF agents out there who don't open their mouths until they are in the safe enviorment of a Starbucks. Then they all have a bold opinion. When someone who can hurt them comes around the boldness is gone and they suck their thumbs. If the Cefalu's and Dodson's of ATF have only done one good thing, that good thing would be that they have inspired a Bureau of agents who have been beaten into submission by Nazi like managers to get up and fight back, stop acting like victims and even at the risk of losing everything, speak out. I'll respect your opinions but sometimes it is just best to say "thank you" and move on down the road. The ATF you dislike would be so much worse without the few who take the risks for the many. You put your name and face on national TV and call out the President and Attorney General and see how that works out for you. They don't hear it enough, thank you Whistleblowers, you are the only people keeping this place in line.

lancebone1967 - you're talking to someone that likes attention, even if it's negative attention, that's still better than no attention. He's the result of either parents that wouldn't let him play with the other kids, or just didn't have any friends as a kid, and then convinced himself that his lack of social skills are a "positive". Giving him attention (and i admit i did it earlier till i woke up) just gives him the satisfaction of engagement with another human.

#69 lancebone1967

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 10:27 PM

If it was just a job to these guys who speak out, they wouldn't speak out at all. They'd just collect a paycheck. If they go work for another agency then that leaves the agents/sheep who aren't willing open to manipulation and intimidation. There's a whole lot of ATF agents out there who don't open their mouths until they are in the safe enviorment of a Starbucks. Then they all have a bold opinion. When someone who can hurt them comes around the boldness is gone and they suck their thumbs. If the Cefalu's and Dodson's of ATF have only done one good thing, that good thing would be that they have inspired a Bureau of agents who have been beaten into submission by Nazi like managers to get up and fight back, stop acting like victims and even at the risk of losing everything, speak out. I'll respect your opinions but sometimes it is just best to say "thank you" and move on down the road. The ATF you dislike would be so much worse without the few who take the risks for the many. You put your name and face on national TV and call out the President and Attorney General and see how that works out for you. They don't hear it enough, thank you Whistleblowers, you are the only people keeping this place in line.

Perhaps they need to go work for a different agency.

It really IS, just a job.



#70 The Shocker

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 07:50 PM

Perhaps they need to go work for a different agency.

It really IS, just a job.

Yes, indeed it is, so when I tell you the agents who are slugging it out with this agency are putting it all on the line, they are. I promise you, they are not the problem, they are the solution.






#71 The Shocker

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 04:08 PM

David Hardy, one who has been watching such things for years, such as myself, might remember is the tenacious firearms lawyer who played FOIA tag with Texas Rangers and ATF for years to be allowed access to the "evidence" of "illegal" machineguns and other devices stored in storage lockers near Waco TX.

It was Mr. Hardy, who discovered, listed as "homemade silencers", expended hulls of 40mm incendiary rounds, fired into the Davidians' buildings, on the fateful day of the final murderous assault.

Mr. Hardy, faced intimidation and obfuscation, to bring the TRUTH of the lies of the ATF/FBI/Rangers to the searing light of public scrutiny.

To this day, no one at Justice has allowed further independent analysis of the allegedly "illegal" firearms which were the alleged justification for the initial Feb 19, 1993 raid, which resulted in 4 dead ATF agents.

God bless you, Sir, for all your hard work.

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:35 PM

Our kids and grandkids will be dealing with the violence from all those guns loose in the hands of the narco-terrorists. Even prosecuting and incarcerating those responsible will never fix what they've done or bring back the already dead and those surely to die for years to come. We will see the violence and death from this operation to the end of our lives.

200 murders in Mexico, two dead U.S. Agent's, more dead to come on both side of the border and Hoover, Chait, McMahon, Newell, Gillett, Voth and MacAllister still have jobs. Mr. Jones who can send a message to world that this was not acceptable and get rid of all of them, or not and cement your legacy as another part-time director who couldn't.

To wash all this blood from so many hands? When do we get a Special Prosecutor?

http://tinyurl.com/3ugukh7

In a conference call this morning with Chairman of the House Oversight Committee Darrell Issa, reporters were told the Attorney General in Mexico has confirmed at least 200 murders south of the border happened as a result of Operation Fast and Furious. Eleven crimes in the United States have been linked to Operation Fast and Furious up to this point. Issa said he expects as the investigation in the operation continues, more crimes connected to Fast and Furious will come to light and be exposed. This is not surprising, considering out of 2500 weapons the Obama Justice Department allowed to “walk,” and that only 600 have been recovered, the rest are lost until they show up at violent crime scenes. The damage from Operation Fast and Furious has only started to be seen. Remember, the Mexican Government and ATF agents working in Mexico were left completely in the dark about the operation.


1900 guns still missing...what could possibly go wrong?






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Posted 20 September 2011 - 08:04 PM

Yes, indeed it is, so when I tell you the agents who are slugging it out with this agency are putting it all on the line, they are. I promise you, they are not the problem, they are the solution.

Isn't that just the definition of Tyranny tho?

TS



#74 The Shocker

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 07:36 PM

To wash all this blood from so many hands? When do we get a Special Prosecutor?

http://tinyurl.com/3ugukh7

In a conference call this morning with Chairman of the House Oversight Committee Darrell Issa, reporters were told the Attorney General in Mexico has confirmed at least 200 murders south of the border happened as a result of Operation Fast and Furious. Eleven crimes in the United States have been linked to Operation Fast and Furious up to this point. Issa said he expects as the investigation in the operation continues, more crimes connected to Fast and Furious will come to light and be exposed. This is not surprising, considering out of 2500 weapons the Obama Justice Department allowed to “walk,” and that only 600 have been recovered, the rest are lost until they show up at violent crime scenes. The damage from Operation Fast and Furious has only started to be seen. Remember, the Mexican Government and ATF agents working in Mexico were left completely in the dark about the operation.


1900 guns still missing...what could possibly go wrong?





#75 The Shocker

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 07:20 PM

Isn't that just the definition of Tyranny tho?

TS

#76 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 02:17 PM

Shocker, I do understand your anger and frustration, however please don't confuse those who would lie and coverup for their careers with those who are simply unwilling to risk their welfare and that of their families for a battle they know they will in all likelihood lose by coming forward. If you think standing up against the federal government is an easy thing to do, try posting what all you just said under your real name. Just the thought sent a chill right up your spine didn't it?



Someone decided enough is enough and started a FB group (at this time, it's not open to public) called DDT the ATF...

It's "mission statement" is as follows and gets bumped daily for new members:

DDT, the chemical (dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane) was instrumental in nearly eradicating malaria and bedbugs from many parts of the world.

Today, we have our own blood-swollen pests, the BATFE, or ATF, who have killed, slaughtered, perjured themselves, planted evidence, contributed to the deaths of thousands: including a brave Border Patrol Agent and ICE Agent, and pointed fingers up the chain of command, to a morally bankrupt DOJ and an equally morally bankrupt President.

"Following Orders" isn't an excuse. We've seen ATF's "three percent" put their lives and careers in jeopardy to tell the truth about Gunrunner/Walker/F&F. Still, most of the Media pretends to be asleep.

Since their origins in 1972, the ATF have been the "Poor White Trash" of Federal Law Enforcement. Their extra-Constitutional thuggery is well known. In 1982, a Senate report found that ATF used illegal and authoritarian tactics commenting "Based upon these hearings, it is apparent that enforcement tactics made possible by current federal firearms laws are constitutionally, legally, and practically reprehensible."

Still, nothing has been done.

This agency is long overdue to be disassembled. It's field agents are either dimwitted gun-haters, or the proverbial jack-booted thug. It's Industry Operations Investigators make up rules and "laws" out of thin air to harass Federal Firearms License holders and Gun Store operators.

Spread the news of this group far and wide.

If you are one of ATF's "three percent" thank you for what you have done. It does not absolve you of your sins against the American people, the Constitution or your Oath. You share equal shame with Eric Holder and Barack Obama.

Help us rid this nation of one Bureau which thinks itself ABOVE the Law and the Constitution."



#77 The Original Ralph

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:38 PM

so instead of congratulating these guys for what they did, you prefer to lecture them? what a way to encourage similiar behavior in the future - really great foresight there

#78 The Shocker

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:58 AM

(ETA: the mission statement of the DDT-ATF group are theirs alone, I simply reprinted them here.)

I stand by all my statements. A Bureau dedicated to it's own existence and fatter budgets is not doing the job it's Charter describes, it's merely another bloated Bureaucracy trampling the Rights of the People and making a mockery of the already questionable ethics of the Federal Judicial system.

Mr. Cefalu, Mr. Dodson and many others have my utmost respect. They remind me of those brave Quixotic souls who try to own guns in California's maze of pointless and often contradictory gun laws. Not wanting to face the fact that California is no longer America. It's lost. Likewise with the ATF.

However, they now know what it feels like to be a dedicated and UNcorrupt line agent in the US Border Patrol...A "true believer" who wishes to defend America and it's citizenry is often marginalized and set upon for harassment. The Green eat their own, just like the ATF does.

shocker - i'm not atf, but am in the firearms industry

to be frank, imho, your condemnation is mis-directed. Push back from the trees and take a gander at the forest - the guys on this forum, are the ones that ARE DOING SOMETHING, with more than a few of them having sacrificed their careers, pensions, and whatever retaliation ATF can throw at them.

you might take a better gander at the landscape before using such a wide paint brush in future posts





#79 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:40 AM

http://www.cbsnews.c...Ftag%3Dfacebook

Absolutely not..There is evidence that Holder knew since day one of this operation as well as Lanny Breuer on down the line.Eric Holder is as bad as Obama himself..They both went to the same school of Bullshit!!


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#80 SilentObserver

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 10:39 PM

Isn't that what all these Agents have been saying?

Absolutely not..There is evidence that Holder knew since day one of this operation as well as Lanny Breuer on down the line.Eric Holder is as bad as Obama himself..They both went to the same school of Bullshit!!

#81 The Original Ralph

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 09:24 PM

shocker - i'm not atf, but am in the firearms industry

to be frank, imho, your condemnation is mis-directed. Push back from the trees and take a gander at the forest - the guys on this forum, are the ones that ARE DOING SOMETHING, with more than a few of them having sacrificed their careers, pensions, and whatever retaliation ATF can throw at them.

you might take a better gander at the landscape before using such a wide paint brush in future posts

#82 The Shocker

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 02:38 PM

Mr. Cefalu. I admire you and respect you for telling the truth. Also, I know that this is your board, so I'll keep my comments dispassionate.

Your tribulations at the hands of your own (former) employer, for being ethical and decent are saddening and upsetting.

However, it wasn't just "ATF management" who brought us offenses against the citizenry like Lawmaster, Weaver, Waco, F&F...this was Agents on the ground, who knew better, but chose their careers over doing the right thing.

A desire to keep a Federal Agency within it's "box" of authority and a dedication to end the sttream of blood which seems to emanate from ATF and their high-profile (self-justifying) operations, is not "hate". It's a desire for Credibility, Accountability, and Decency.

It's not your "job" to self-aggrandize the Bureau, nor is it the purpose of the Bureau to justify its own existence. It's the job of the Bureau, and all those who work for it, to serve the people's needs with the fair, impartial, and above all, LEGAL enforcement of existing (albeit offensive to the Constitution) Federal Laws and Regulations.

Herein likes the problem. An agency dedicated to promoting itself, over doing it's duty, is like a ship without rudder, crashing willy-nilly into anything in its path. Sadly, until recently, most of those who got "run over" by this ship were lowly citizens and licensees, not fellow Federal Agents. My fear is that if F&F had only resulted in "mere" hundreds of dead Mexican citizens, that any of it would've ever made it to our Gov-controlled lapdog Media.



This is America. People can love or hate whoever they chose. Its our job to make ourselves so important to public safety that love us or hate us, nobody will listen to the ATF haters. This current ATF leadership is making it easy to disregard us and question our necessity.






#83 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 05:03 PM

This is America. People can love or hate whoever they chose. Its our job to make ourselves so important to public safety that love us or hate us, nobody will listen to the ATF haters. This current ATF leadership is making it easy to disregard us and question our necessity.

Someone decided enough is enough and started a FB group (at this time, it's not open to public) called DDT the ATF...

It's "mission statement" is as follows and gets bumped daily for new members:

DDT, the chemical (dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane) was instrumental in nearly eradicating malaria and bedbugs from many parts of the world.

Today, we have our own blood-swollen pests, the BATFE, or ATF, who have killed, slaughtered, perjured themselves, planted evidence, contributed to the deaths of thousands: including a brave Border Patrol Agent and ICE Agent, and pointed fingers up the chain of command, to a morally bankrupt DOJ and an equally morally bankrupt President.

"Following Orders" isn't an excuse. We've seen ATF's "three percent" put their lives and careers in jeopardy to tell the truth about Gunrunner/Walker/F&F. Still, most of the Media pretends to be asleep.

Since their origins in 1972, the ATF have been the "Poor White Trash" of Federal Law Enforcement. Their extra-Constitutional thuggery is well known. In 1982, a Senate report found that ATF used illegal and authoritarian tactics commenting "Based upon these hearings, it is apparent that enforcement tactics made possible by current federal firearms laws are constitutionally, legally, and practically reprehensible."

Still, nothing has been done.

This agency is long overdue to be disassembled. It's field agents are either dimwitted gun-haters, or the proverbial jack-booted thug. It's Industry Operations Investigators make up rules and "laws" out of thin air to harass Federal Firearms License holders and Gun Store operators.

Spread the news of this group far and wide.

If you are one of ATF's "three percent" thank you for what you have done. It does not absolve you of your sins against the American people, the Constitution or your Oath. You share equal shame with Eric Holder and Barack Obama.

Help us rid this nation of one Bureau which thinks itself ABOVE the Law and the Constitution."


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#84 The Shocker

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 05:11 PM

This was a good one too (Newell you are such a slimy POS)

Attached Files



#85 The Shocker

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 05:08 PM

Someone decided enough is enough and started a FB group (at this time, it's not open to public) called DDT the ATF...

It's "mission statement" is as follows and gets bumped daily for new members:

DDT, the chemical (dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane) was instrumental in nearly eradicating malaria and bedbugs from many parts of the world.

Today, we have our own blood-swollen pests, the BATFE, or ATF, who have killed, slaughtered, perjured themselves, planted evidence, contributed to the deaths of thousands: including a brave Border Patrol Agent and ICE Agent, and pointed fingers up the chain of command, to a morally bankrupt DOJ and an equally morally bankrupt President.

"Following Orders" isn't an excuse. We've seen ATF's "three percent" put their lives and careers in jeopardy to tell the truth about Gunrunner/Walker/F&F. Still, most of the Media pretends to be asleep.

Since their origins in 1972, the ATF have been the "Poor White Trash" of Federal Law Enforcement. Their extra-Constitutional thuggery is well known. In 1982, a Senate report found that ATF used illegal and authoritarian tactics commenting "Based upon these hearings, it is apparent that enforcement tactics made possible by current federal firearms laws are constitutionally, legally, and practically reprehensible."

Still, nothing has been done.

This agency is long overdue to be disassembled. It's field agents are either dimwitted gun-haters, or the proverbial jack-booted thug. It's Industry Operations Investigators make up rules and "laws" out of thin air to harass Federal Firearms License holders and Gun Store operators.

Spread the news of this group far and wide.

If you are one of ATF's "three percent" thank you for what you have done. It does not absolve you of your sins against the American people, the Constitution or your Oath. You share equal shame with Eric Holder and Barack Obama.

Help us rid this nation of one Bureau which thinks itself ABOVE the Law and the Constitution."

Attached Files



#86 Iceman

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 04:21 PM

Isn't that what all these Agents have been saying?

Does anyone here actually buy Holder's claim that he and DOJ's senior leadership were entirely "unaware" of an operation that deliberately allowed thousands of assault rifles, fragmentation grenades and other military-grade weaponry to cross an international border? ....................



#87 Scooby

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 01:58 PM

Again, amazing. Four years ago, I wrote the bi-weekly briefings for his predecessor on Project Gunrunner. I'm supposed to believe that emails directed to the AG through ATF's Exec Staff went unnoticed by persons still employed there. Please! I have forwarded same to the Oversight Committee in the hope that it will benefit the fine employees of ATF somehow, someday.

If I did, then I know for dang sure there's some swampland in Arizona with my name on it... I don't buy his denial at all.. I remember back in my days as a webslinger for ATF of posting his statements on Project Gunrunner, etc....

It gets deeper and deeper...



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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:00 PM

Holder is on the run. The leader of DOJ has no integrity and thus his attorneys and advisors have followed his lead. He is digging his shallow grave into a 6-footer. The entire decision process at DOJ is corrupted and that all comes back on Holder. He just can not seem to be able to do the right thing for the right reasons. I will not be surprised or saddened if he is gone by January 1. This is also a direct reflection on Obama. The President is being embarrassed by the top law enforcement officer in this country.

#89 Retired and loving it

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 05:55 PM

Good post Greatdogs; Holder evidently has a conveniently short memory.

#90 greatdogs

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 03:22 PM

It seems to be a clever amount of wordsmithing by Holder. He was unaware of the program "as it was being carried out". It is the only way he can save his job is by denial of what was going on. He certainly can not say he did not know about the program after his speech in Mexico on April 2, 2009 in which he said:

"Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail."

The entire transcript is at: http://www.justice.g...ech-090402.html

The only way to get to the bottom of this is the appointment of an Independent Prosecutor and let the chips fall where they may.

#91 spinax489

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:29 PM

Does anyone here actually buy Holder's claim .....

If I did, then I know for dang sure there's some swampland in Arizona with my name on it... I don't buy his denial at all.. I remember back in my days as a webslinger for ATF of posting his statements on Project Gunrunner, etc....

It gets deeper and deeper...

#92 Retired and loving it

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:53 AM

Holder is full of shit. If he was "unaware" and is so surprised by this, why is he allowing people to be reassigned and promoted? Why hasn't anyone been fired or punished in any way at all? After WACO, several ATF managers lost their jobs. Some involved agents stayed on with ATF but lost their badges (and 1811 status) Why is none of this happening to those involved with "Fast and Furious"? The reason is plain to see. It was an Obama administration plan from the get go. Holder must think that the US citizens are really idiots to believe his bullshit.

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:04 AM

Does anyone here actually buy Holder's claim that he and DOJ's senior leadership were entirely "unaware" of an operation that deliberately allowed thousands of assault rifles, fragmentation grenades and other military-grade weaponry to cross an international border?

These guys are suing States and accusing them of "human rights" violations before international bodies such as the U.N., for those States' last-ditch attempts to stop the flood of illegal aliens (including thousands of violent criminals) from violating our borders, trashing their citizens' ranches, overloading their schools, and sucking up their welfare funds, all of which are federal government responsibilities and abject failures.

Yet, when it comes to truckloads of high-powered weapons flowing the other direction by explicit order of a federal agency under their direct and immediate authority, thus killing our own valiant law enforcement agents along with thousands of Mexican citizens, they "don't know" a damned thing! This is clearly either an incredibly brazen cover-up attempt of at least Watergate significance, or Eric Holder is among the most incompetent Attorney Generals ever to disgrace the Office (or more likely, both).


And let's not forget that all of the key ATF management players have been promoted (or at least shuffled into other positions), rather than being severely disciplined, terminated and/or prosecuted as is clearly warranted.

Congress, if you let this stand, you aren't worth the loads of completely redacted paper that Holder and his cronies have tossed in your face in response to your inquiries.

CleanUpATF.org hereby throws down the Bullshit Card.

Posted Image

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:37 AM

Holder Denies Prior Knowledge of 'Fast and Furious'
By Mike Levine
September 07, 2011
FoxNews.com | AP

Posted Image

The head of the U.S. Justice Department launched his strongest personal defense yet in the growing furor over Operation Fast and Furious, the controversial sting targeting Mexican drug cartels and American gunrunners.

On Wednesday, Attorney General Eric Holder said for the first time that not only he but also other higher-ups at the Justice Department were not aware of the operation as it was being carried out. Holder also suggested politics could be a driving force behind Republican lawmakers' forceful inquiries into the matter.

"The notion that somehow or other this thing reaches into the upper levels of the Justice Department is something that. ... I don't think is supported by the facts," Holder told reporters at an unrelated press conference in Washington. "It's kind of something I think certain members of Congress would like to see, the notion that somehow or other high-level people in the department were involved. As I said, I don't think that is going to be shown to be the case -- which doesn't mean that the mistakes were not serious."

A spokeswoman for the Republican leading a congressional investigation described Holder's comments as baseless "whining," and earlier Wednesday the House Republican himself said the issue is about more than who knew what, when.

"Whenever you talk about human mistakes, you have to say, 'What was in the system that allowed that human mistake to go on and perpetuate itself?'" Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight Committee, said on Fox News Channel.

At issue is an Arizona operation launched in late 2009 by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which planned to follow gun purchasers in hopes that suspects would lead investigators to the heads of Mexican cartels. But hundreds of high-powered rifles and other guns ended up in Mexico, and many now accuse ATF and the Justice Department of letting the guns "walk" even after safety concerns were raised.

Weapons linked to the program were used in a December attack along the Southwest Border that killed U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. Months later, Issa launched his committee's investigation, as the Justice Department's inspector general also opened an inquiry, at Holder's direction.

"Our committee is the Government [Oversight and] Reform Committee," Issa said Wednesday. "We are about making sure that there is a system to prevent this in the future. When we have assurances that system is in place then our job is done."

But Holder seemed to question whether that is all Issa and other Republican critics are after.

"My hope would be that Congress will conduct an investigation that is factually based and not marred with politics," Holder said.

Holder has said repeatedly he was not aware of the operation as it was unfolding, and others have said no one at the Justice Department in Washington was informed of it, but Issa insists Holder at least "should have known."

"I believe it was his obligation to know, " Issa told Fox News in June. "The fact that there was a 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy in Eric Holder's office is to say really he wasn't doing his job."

Holder, however, noted he leads a massive department with all sorts of functions and obligations

"There are an awful lot of things that go on in the Justice Department," he said. "There's Operation Fast and Furious, [and] I'm sure there's Operation 'Fill In The Blank' going on right now that the people here in the department are not aware of."

Holder said he, as head of the department, has tried to "place in the field the responsibility and the discretion for enforcement activities," while setting "broad parameters here in the department" that he expects to be followed outside of Washington.

Holder has repeatedly denounced the tactics used in Operation Fast and Furious, calling the operation Wednesday a "flawed enforcement effort."

Recently, the man who headed ATF in the midst of it, Ken Melson, was reassigned, and U.S. attorney Dennis Burke, who oversaw the prosecution of cases coming out of the operation, abruptly resigned.

Nevertheless, at least three men have been charged in connection with the murder of agent Terry, though only one is in U.S. custody. And the Justice Department recently informed lawmakers that cases coming out of Operation Fast and Furious will now be led by prosecutors from outside Arizona.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1XNEpYRJL

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 01:20 PM

Note: This article appears on Foreign Policy Blogs, sponsored by the Foreign Policy Association. According to its web site: "Foreign Policy Blogs is the largest network of global affairs blogs online. Staffed by scores of professional contributors from the worlds of journalism, academia, business, non-profits and think tanks, the FPB network tracks global developments from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe and everywhere in between, daily. The FPB network is a production of the Foreign Policy Association. Founded in 1918 by a group of concerned journalists and citizens, the Foreign Policy Association serves as a catalyst for developing awareness, understanding of, and providing informed opinions on global issues. All ideas and opinions expressed on the Foreign Policy Blogs network are attributed solely to the author, and do not reflect the ideas and or opinions of the Foreign Policy Association."

Source: http://foreignpolicy...11/09/05/40895/

Melson out–Holder digs in: 1700+ violations of the Arms Export Control Act?

GLOBAL ORGANIZED CRIME

by Kathleen Millar | on September 5th, 2011 |


Ok. Now we’re into it.

Administration top dogs have thrown ATF Director Ken Melson and US Attorney for Arizona Dennis Burke under the truck. In firefighting, they call it a "controlled burn," torching a perimeter of just enough man-made flame to meet and beat the advance of a wildfire impervious to less-drastic solutions.

Good luck, gentlemen.

The House Oversight Committee’s investigation into the DOJ/ATF gun-running operation known as Fast and Furious is roaring through the halls of Congress, and despite DOJ’s efforts to spin the story every which way but up, Representative Darrell Issa (R-Calif) and Senator Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) are on a trail insiders whisper may lead investigators all the way to the top.

Melson, who brought his own attorney with him when he first testifiedbefore the House Oversight Committee over the July 4th holiday, continues to allege that DOJ "planted" rumors of his impending resignation in the press prior to that date to force the ATF Director’s hand, and that the present scapegoat strategy to jettison the ATF Director and several US Attorneys closely linked to Fast and Furious is more of the same: a last ditch attempt to stop the House Oversight Committee investigation before Congress homes in on political appointees, who, Melson suggests, devised and implemented Operation Fast and Furious at the behest of higher-ups in the Obama Administration.

Note to Issa’s Committee

Consider the benefits if someone armed with a Forthwith Subpeona had been waiting to meet Melson on his way out of the building. Just because the man’s been reassigned doesn’t mean he can’t testify before a Grand Jury.

If investigators determine that Fast and Furious was intended to be something other than a bona fide law enforcement operation—an under-the-radar political ploy, for instance, designed to shore up Mexico’s claims that US gun dealers have been responsible for fueling Mexico’s gang wars and to lend support to the push for stronger gun control in the US—then Fast and Furious will stand beside the Iran-Contra scandal as a politically inspired effort devised by officials within the US government to export weapons illegally, in violation of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA), to criminal actors in Mexico.

The Oversight Committee indicates DOJ/ATF officials knew from the beginning there was a high probability the guns ATF let "walk" would fall into the hands of cartel gunmen who would use those guns, not just to murder Mexican nationals, but to attack and kill US citizens as well.

Guns supplied to Mexican gangs have been linked to the killings of US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata. Just this week, CBS broke a story about an early "cover-up" on the part of ATF officials and the US Attorney’s Office in Arizona. According to a report filed by Sharyl Attkisson, Assistant US Attorney Emory Hurley, who was at that time simultaneously investigating the Terry shooting and Fast and Furious, chose to conceal the fact that the weapon used in Terry’s murder was one sent across the border via ATF’s gun-walking operation.

Investigators have also linked guns trafficked through the ATF Operation to a number of additional crimes committed in the US; reports supplied to the Committee indicate there was ‘panic’ within ATF immediately after the attack on Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), triggered by concern that the weapon used to gun down Giffords might have been one supplied through Fast and Furious.

Arms Export Control Act

The Arms Export Control Act is the same law that brought down the architects of Iran-Contra, officials who facilitated the illegal sales of weapons to Iran and to Nicaraguan rebels (Contras) during the Reagan Administration.

It’s a critical piece of legislation, especially for the ordinary American, who’s usually the one wearing the boots when they hit the ground in bad places. Americans have a hard time with the notion that the bullets, guns, missiles, tanks, and other military hardware the enemy may be using to kill their sons and daughters in the military may have been "Made in the USA."

Here’s how it’s supposed to work. The Arms Export Control Act prohibits US arms merchants and defense manufacturers from selling lethal weapons and sensitive or dual-use technology to people who may want to use those weapons and technology to fire back at US citizens—at the military, law enforcement agents, and more and more often, a lot of just plain Americans who routinely miss those signs 80 miles inland on the US side of the Mexico-Arizona border warning tourists to go no further–Mexican gunmen on the prowl.

US weapons cannot be sold and shipped to countries that support terrorism, or nations, states, groups, or other entities deemed unfriendly to the United States.

I’d say Mexican cartels, especially the violent assassination squads that comprise Los Zetas, fall into that category, wouldn’t you?

Even more importantly, the Arms Export Control Act is, in fact, a servant to Article Three of the United States Constitution, which defines the act of selling weapons to those who would "levy war against the United States" or "giving aid and comfort to our enemies" as treason. No kidding. Treason.

If a US law enforcement agency wants to involve itself in the sale of weapons purchased from US gun dealers for export purposes–sales that may be part of an legitimate enforcement or military operation–that agency, let’s say ATF, must apply to the State Department for an exemption from the licensing requirements normally imposed on the commercial sale and export of such weapons. If an enforcement agency or military entity intent on running a covert op involving the export of lethal weapons does not obtain the necessary exemptions from State, for–listen carefully–each weapon or bundle of weapons purchased, that agency or military purchaser has committed a crime.

Consider. ATF sent more than 1700 weapons across the border into Mexico–that could translate into 1700+ violations of the Arms Export Control Act.

When arms are purchased as part of a commercial deal from US manufacturers for shipment overseas–when the sale is not part of a law enforcement or military operation–the purchasing agent must apply to State for both a license and an End-User Certificate (EUC). If the EUC is obtained as part of a fraudulent deal, i.e., the guns were never meant to go where the purchaser said they were going, then the export license is automatically deemed null and void. If a commercial buyer does not obtain an export license from State as well as a bona fide EUC, that buyer has committed a crime.

Did ATF violate the Arms Export Control Act?

But let’s give the devil his due, and suppose that Fast and Furious was, in fact, conceived as a legitimate law enforcement operation: the agency, which intended to facilitate the sale of guns from US dealers to agency informants or ATF "ringers," chosen to act as straw buyers, would have factored in the need to obtain exemptions from the licensing requirements mandated by the State Department, which has oversight for the Arms Export Control Act.

But even before State issued those exemptions to ATF, DOJ/ATF would have had to demonstrate operational accountability, convincing State Department officials and other relevant agencies that Fast and Furious reflected solid planning, measurable objectives, and an endgame which guaranteed that none of the weapons in question would go missing or be used in the commission of crimes.

As we know, that’s not what happened with Fast and Furious.

ICE Agent Jaime Zapata killing linked to Fast and Furious

Congressional investigators tell us that from the inception of the operation, there was no strategy to trace or tag the weapons DOJ/ATF officials knew would cross illegally into Mexico, and no plan to interdict in an alternative manner, or to prevent thousands of deadly fully-functional weapons from disappearing without a trace once they moved across the US-Mexico border.

Instead, federal agents merely entered the serial numbers of the weapons sold to straw buyers (at ATF’s urging) into their database, and went back to the office to wait until Mexican, or US authorities returned these same weapons, by then used in the commission of a crime or a killing, to ATF.

ATF agents had no way of knowing to whom or where those weapons had traveled once they had crossed into Mexico, or who used any specific weapon to commit a crime or homicide. All ATF was able to do, and perhaps expected to do, was count the number of guns they knew for certain (because ATF had arranged the sale) had been purchased at gun shops along the US side of the border.

Does this sound like a gun-tracing operation that went bad? Or a clandestine gun-running operation whose purpose was to retrieve, mostly from Mexican authorities, piles of "illegally purchased and trafficked" AK-47s and other lethal weapons ATF and DOJ could point to as solid evidence that the US has, as Calderon keeps insisting, been responsible for fueling the violence that’s already killed 40,000 Mexican civilians? Was the US responsible for the deaths of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata?

Who approved the ATF operation?

Ask yourself this question: who ok’d Fast and Furious? What are the chances that an interagency review board, the kind to which every enforcement agency that wants to run a cross-border covert operation goes to for approval, would give a thumbs-up to a plan to smuggle thousands of military-grade weapons into Mexico when there were no provisions in that plan to interdict, or track/trace, or somehow retrieve those guns before they could be used to kill innocent civilians?

Zero.

Why would other law enforcement/intelligence agencies put their heads on the block for a plan that promised to do nothing but send weapons to killers in Mexico and provide the Administration with a tally, after the fact, that proved how deeply involved the US had become in Mexico’s murderous gang wars?

Let’s think about who would have had representatives sitting on this kind of interagency review board, ready to yea or nay the ATF operation? DOJ and ATF, obviously. DHS and ICE—the latter has authority for investigating violations of the Export Control Act. Then DEA, the FBI, and the State Department—since State would have had to issue exemptions re the Export Control Act to allow ATF to move the guns into Mexico. DOD? NSA? CIA? Sometimes.

Why so many players?

The easy answer is coordination. But here’s the rest of the story . . .

First, a covert operation involving the trafficking of weapons across the US-Mexico border falls within ICE’s jurisdiction, not ATF’s.
You don’t steal turf in federal law enforcement and walk away unscathed.

If ATF wanted to ‘own’ Fast and Furious, it would have had to strike that deal with ICE and then work out the potential for jurisdictional ‘overlap’ with other enforcement and intelligence agencies as well. All of it before, not after, the operation began.

Let’s say that didn’t happen. No coordination with DHS/ICE. No green light re Fast and Furious from an interagency review board. Bad judgement. Bad form. Bordering on the illegal.

But not a crime.

Big dog in the fight: US Department of State

Did State provide ATF with exemptions to Arms Control Act?

The State Department had, and still has, the really big dog in this fight—that’s why it would have sent a department rep to a review board meeting re Fast and Furious. Play fast and loose with State, and it is, indeed, a crime. A serious one.

It was ATF’s job to make sure State knew it was engineering shipments of AK-47s and .50 cal rifles across the border and ATF’s responsibility under the law to obtain exemptions from State’s licensing requirements to send these guns south. To obtain these exemptions to the Arms Export Control Act, officials at DOJ, ATF’s parent agency, would have had to send a letter or formal request to State.

The State Department would have a copy of that letter or request in its files today, and on it would be the signature/s, no doubt, of one or more of the top three officials at DOJ–the Deputy Assistant Attorney for the Criminal Division, the Deputy Attorney General, or the Attorney General of the United States, Eric Holder. It takes horsepower to obtain authorization to send guns to Mexico.

So, where is that letter, that request for exemptions? Let’s take ATF off the hook.

The State Department isn’t talking, and the media doesn’t yet seem to understand how deafening that silence is.

ATF is talking, but their spin doctors are clinging desperately to a single message: "botched operation." Not good, but infinitely preferable to admitting Fast and Furious might have been a criminal endeavor, a deliberate effort to circumvent US law and use a US law enforcement agency to pursue political, as opposed to operational, objectives.

Plead guilty to a lesser crime, and cop a plea.

"Botched operations" are about ineptitude, not criminality. But "botched operations" start out with good intentions and then go south. Fast and Furious, its intentions, its motive, seems to be about one thing only: supplying arms to Mexican gangs. No tag. No bag.

Listen. Melson, Burke and a slew of carefully selected US Attorneys haven’t been selected for "reassignment" because ATF failed to play well with others, but because the folks who should know do know that an operation launched without the collective approval of an interagency law enforcement/intelligence panel was also an operation that engineered the sale and export of thousands of lethal weapons into Mexico in violation of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA)—the law that lends those big sharp teeth, even today, to Article Three of the United States Constitution.

And no one is above the law. Not ATF. Not the Attorney General of the United States. Not the Secretary of State or the President of the United States. You know who said that? Ronald Reagan, when he went on national television to admit his Administration did, in fact, "own Iran-Contra."

But here’s the problem. When you start drawing comparisons between Fast and Furious and Iran-Contra, the issue "gets political." Hot. Really. Check out the blogosphere. Not a pretty picture.

One blogger writes that Fast and Furious will never become for the present Administration what Iran-Contra was to Reagan or Watergate was to Nixon. Why? He says the American people "love" Obama, while Nixon was "hated."

A progressive blogger, and yes, even a Democratic Congresswoman, contend that any questions about possible wrongdoing directed toward the Administration are rooted in racism. And then there are the media-skeptics, who accuse writers like myself of stepping over the line with hyperbolic comparisons which are themselves only sub rosa attacks on Obama and his appointees. Stop.

It’s a good thing to support our leaders, to rally behind policies and ideas we think will benefit our country. It’s also a good thing to hold passionate opinions about political positions that we believe will shape our future for better or worse.

But here is the point, the crux of the matter now before us: it is fine to love one’s president, one’s leaders, one’s beliefs, but it is imperative, in this country, to love the law more. Forced resignations, diversionary political rationales, debates about the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law—none of this speaks to the central question. Did ATF, under advisement of its political administrators, break the laws of the United States of America?

Iran-Contra was a criminal enterprise undertaken by officials within a Republican administration–that investigation went to the top and resulted in criminal indictments. The parallels between that scandal and ATF’s Fast and Furious are hard to ignore:

--Administration officials devised Iran-Contra in clear violation of the Export Control Act, a law constructed to prevent US manufactured weapons from being sold to the enemies of the US (AECA covered arms shipments to Iran; the Boland Amendment covered the use of proceeds from arms sales forwarded to the Contras)—it appears this may be the case with Fast and Furious as well.

--Administration officials facilitating the shipment of arms to Iran failed to obtain licensing exemptions from the State Department—no evidence has materialized that ATF sought or obtained exemptions from State’s licensing requirement before facilitating the shipment of arms, via the ATF ‘undercover operation’ tagged Fast and Furious to Mexico.

--The architects of Iran-Contra dissembled to Congress—certainly DOJ/ATF obfuscated with an intent to mislead and deceive. Even Attorney General Eric Holder claims he knew none of the details regarding ATF’s gun-running operation until he was informed that a weapon trafficked via that operation had been used to kill US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

Of course, there were important differences between Iran-Contra and Fast and Furious, the most obvious being that none of the guns manufactured in the US and shipped to Iran were used to kill Americans. A slim moral distinction, perhaps, but one I believe that speaks powerfully to critics who will still argue that Fast and Furious will never approximate Iran-Contra in scope or intent. If we look at the consequences of the two scandals, Fast and Furious stands in a league of its own. Ask the family of slain US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

Let’s get to the bottom of this ATF scandal. Stop the games, the professional executions, the subterfuge, the diversionary strategies, and the disinformation that aims to distract the press from the real story.

Administration officials can end this controversy right now. If DOJ/ATF did not break the law, if that agency did obtain exemptions to the Export Control Act, the Department of State will have that information at the ready.

All we have to do is ask.

#96 The Original Ralph

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 08:21 PM

Since you brought up the NFRTR, in a letter to a citizen dated August 30, 2010, Arthur Herbert, Assistant Director, Office of Enforcement Programs and Services, discussed concerns raised about NFA firearm registration and/or transfer documents missing from ATF's version of the NFRTR, which arise when Industry Operations Investigators (IOIs) do compliance inspections and find that SOTs have NFA firearms or devices in their inventories--and the approved ATF paperwork for them. Mr. Herbert's letter is posted on the Internet at http://www.nfaoa.org...rbertLetter.pdf

Assistant Director Herbert states: "The inspection records upon which you based your conclusions are worksheets prepared by ATF investigators to note potential discrepancies in the NFRTR. The inspection inventory worksheets generated by investigators are merely the preliminary tools used by ATF for inventory reconciliation. They are not a record of the final outcome of NFRTR and application archive research or final inventory reconciliation." This answer is incorrect, uninformative, and misleading.

Put another way, Mr. Herbert is saying "you have incorrectly concluded the NFRTR has missing records, because ATF has not had the opportunity to add the missing records its investigators discovered back into the NFRTR yet." Mr. Herbert further states: " . . . the NFRTR cannot possibly reflect transactions that have not been reported to ATF . . . ".

Mr. Herbert clearly has no idea of how transfer documents work. Countless transfers to dealers from dealers and from individuals have been approved, but are not in the NFRTR compliance record brought to the dealers on inspections. Every one of these transfers was reported to ATF by appropriate transfer forms, were approved and returned and then the NFA firearm or device was transferred in compliance, yet ATF will not have records of them during inspections. The dealers are then required to prove to ATF that the approved transfers exist and that the NFA firearm or device was appropriately transferred out or in or wherever.

It is not possible to not report a transfer to ATF and then transfer an NFA item. No one ever does this.

The NFRTR is F'Bar'd beyond repair - i'm firmly convinced of it - see earlier threads on the "shadows of many doubts" story, where Jim Jeffries brought the perjury ATF committed to convict an innocent dealer. Odd part is, after being taken to task by Congress over this, iirc 1998/9, and given a 1/2 million dollar appropriation to put the records in order (which i firmly believe is impossible) they have not responded to 3 requests by the congressional committee asking how " the money had been spent.

About 4 or 5 years ago, i transferred a Class III Steyr AUG or rather filed the form 3 transfer app. After six months of waiting, contacted a user friendly examiner (supervisor) in the NFA branch to see why it hadn't been approved. She looked into the system and actually whispered into the phone "i see why it hasn't been approved, it doesn't show registered to your firm" and went on to ask me if i could fax in a copy of the form 3 it had transferred into me on. I wondered, if it didn't show registered to me, why hadn't they sent in a swat team to raid me for attempting to transfer an unregistered device. The approved transferring form 3 showed up a few week later.

i've wondered how easy it would be for a clever defendant to put forth a defense in court, showing forged form 3s, as even the original form 3 we actually receive ranch, back from NFA, on approval, is nothing more than a xerox - no embossed seal or even original ink for the approving signature.

at the same time, it seems to be fairly easy for an examiner to enter something into the registry - and there have been rumors for years, of one or two examiners (when NFA was in washington DC) having a sideline, creating pre-86 registrations.

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 07:48 PM

Since you brought up the NFRTR, in a letter to a citizen dated August 30, 2010, Arthur Herbert, Assistant Director, Office of Enforcement Programs and Services, discussed concerns raised about NFA firearm registration and/or transfer documents missing from ATF's version of the NFRTR, which arise when Industry Operations Investigators (IOIs) do compliance inspections and find that SOTs have NFA firearms or devices in their inventories--and the approved ATF paperwork for them. Mr. Herbert's letter is posted on the Internet at http://www.nfaoa.org...rbertLetter.pdf

Assistant Director Herbert states: "The inspection records upon which you based your conclusions are worksheets prepared by ATF investigators to note potential discrepancies in the NFRTR. The inspection inventory worksheets generated by investigators are merely the preliminary tools used by ATF for inventory reconciliation. They are not a record of the final outcome of NFRTR and application archive research or final inventory reconciliation." This answer is incorrect, uninformative, and misleading.

Put another way, Mr. Herbert is saying "you have incorrectly concluded the NFRTR has missing records, because ATF has not had the opportunity to add the missing records its investigators discovered back into the NFRTR yet." Mr. Herbert further states: " . . . the NFRTR cannot possibly reflect transactions that have not been reported to ATF . . . ".

Mr. Herbert clearly has no idea of how transfer documents work. Countless transfers to dealers from dealers and from individuals have been approved, but are not in the NFRTR compliance record brought to the dealers on inspections. Every one of these transfers was reported to ATF by appropriate transfer forms, were approved and returned and then the NFA firearm or device was transferred in compliance, yet ATF will not have records of them during inspections. The dealers are then required to prove to ATF that the approved transfers exist and that the NFA firearm or device was appropriately transferred out or in or wherever.

It is not possible to not report a transfer to ATF and then transfer an NFA item. No one ever does this.

Retired & Loving it: hate to say it but you wouldn't believe the two recent traces requests i've received. One being for a silencer, duly transferred thru the NFA system. When i indicated (phone conversation) that they should have all that info already in their system, i could hear the "lights turning on" on the other end of the phone line. The other, in the same request letter, was for a chinese SKS - problem there was we've never handled, imported, transferred or even looked at any chinese made firearms. I mentioned this as well in the same voice conversation, and was told "forget the demand letter".

i just assume the "disconnect" factor is running especially strong this time of year



#98 The Original Ralph

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 06:03 PM

It's really a sad state of operations when the people within ATF cannot even keep track of who is cooperating with them. .......

Retired & Loving it: hate to say it but you wouldn't believe the two recent traces requests i've received. One being for a silencer, duly transferred thru the NFA system. When i indicated (phone conversation) that they should have all that info already in their system, i could hear the "lights turning on" on the other end of the phone line. The other, in the same request letter, was for a Chinese SKS - problem there was we've never handled, imported, transferred or even looked at any Chinese made firearms. I mentioned this as well in the same voice conversation, and was told "forget the demand letter".

i just assume the "disconnect" factor is running especially strong this time of year

#99 Retired and loving it

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 05:35 PM

It's really a sad state of operations when the people within ATF cannot even keep track of who is cooperating with them. Why would the NTC just blindly send letter to a dealer without finding out if the dealer is one cooperating with the Field? I tend to think that some of the problem is that the NTC sees itself as a part of the omni-important HQ bureaucracy and, therefore, they do not need to bother coordinating things with the plain ole Field personnel. Someday, they will wake up and find that without a Field, there is no reason for them to exist. As things have been going, that day cannot come soon enough!

I always kept that in the forefront of my mind when I was required to serve time in the funny farm but obviously a lot of those there now do not.

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 03:40 PM

Source of article: http://www.examiner...._alerts_article

Note: Mr. Codrea posted the documents he cites on the Internet at http://www.examiner....n-sales-picture

Exclusive Report: Documents indicate ATF, FBI allowed Indiana ‘crime gun’ sales
David Codrea
Gun Rights Examiner
September 5, 2011

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has acknowledged an Indiana dealer’s cooperation in conducting straw purchases at the direction of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Exclusive documents obtained by Gun Rights Examiner show the dealer cooperated with ATF by selling guns to straw purchasers, and that bureau management later asserted these guns were being traced to crimes.

From the confidential source providing the documents:

The dealer…was sent a "demand letter," based on the number of traces to him, which was retracted after his attorney pointed out they resulted from his cooperation with ATF. (Strangely, he got two voicemails from two different ATF people, both saying they were the head of the tracing operation).
Some of the straw men turned out to have felony convictions, the agents called the FBI background check system and fixed it so the transactions would be approved, something which may also have happened in Phoenix. (The attorney wasn't clear as to whether the guns were actually delivered to the gangs).

If the guns did not make it to criminal end users, why the demand for the reporting requirement was made remains unexplained: A demand letter, dated February 14, 2011 and signed by Charles J. Houser, Chief, National Tracing Center Division, informed the dealer he was required to provide acquisition and disposition information on firearms obtained from non-licensees, as well as to provide quarterly reports, based on ATF’s assessment that the dealer “had an unusually high number of traces of new crime guns with a relatively short ‘time-to-crime’…”


In a response dated March 10, 2011, attorney Brent R. Weil of Kightlinger and Gray, LLP, informed Houser:

Specifically, my client participated with and cooperated in certain law enforcement operations during 2009/2010 at the behest of ATFE enforcement officers from the Evansville, Indiana office (Agent Kevin Whittaker) and in the course of doing so, followed their instructions regarding the completion of certain transactions and the delivery of firearms to purchasers who did not clear the standard NICS [National Instant Check System] background check and were suspected of being involved in the purchase and transportation of handguns out of state despite passing NICS’s background checks.

In order to verify ATF claims, Weil requested they “be given a list of the ‘ten or more crime guns with a “time-to-crime: of three years or less’ so that we can satisfy ourselves that we are not being improperly included in this program because of our cooperation with and/or involvement with ATFE enforcement activities.”

The response letter resulted in a voice mail from Houser to Weil on March 15, 2011, ignoring his request for the list of guns, but promising:

If…that count is composed of firearms that were, where your client was working in conjunction with ATF, we will get your client removed entirely from the program.”

That same day, another voice mail was received, this time from Brenda Bennett, also identifying herself as “Chief of the National Tracing Center,” who informed Weil:

I have verified the information in the letter. I talked to law enforcement and they confirmed what he had to say. Therefore, he is being removed from the demand list.

See the sidebar slideshow accompanying this article for screen captures of all documents referred to in this column.
Note: See http://www.examiner....n-sales-picture

At the very least, as with “Project Gunwalker,” they indicate straw purchased guns ended up in crime traces, something those directing surveillance were well aware of. It also indicates the FBI and ATF were once again involved with allowing transactions rejected by NICS to proceed, indicating this practice could be more widespread than has been previously documented, and not confined to Southwest border operations.

It’s fair to ask at this point what Robert J. Browning knows about this. He’s the Special Agent In Charge (SAC) of the Columbus Field Division, which directs Indiana and Ohio field offices. Also worth questioning: Joseph H. Hogsett, United States Attorney for the Southern District of Indiana, specifically about what he has directed and approved that has any bearing on “crime guns” making their way to the street following law enforcement firearm transfer approvals to straw purchasers within his jurisdicition.

It’s also fair to ask if it seems credible that such similar operations would develop independently in the Southwest (“Project Gunwalker”) and the Midwest (“Project Gangwalker’?), without authorization from and oversight coordination by Main Justice.

Mike Vanderboegh of Sipsey Street Irregulars has advocated opening “a second front” to complement House Oversight Committee investigations, and this column has been a consistent advocate for appointment of a truly independent special investigator, as well as for individual state attorneys general determining if multiple felony violations of their state laws, committed jointly by two or more persons, have been perpetrated. What seems clear is none of this will happen unless gun owners create such an uproar that their demands cannot be ignored—by timid political wind riders who don’t wish to get involved, by an arrogant, stonewalling administration, and by their protectors/abettors in the mainstream press.

UPDATE: Vanderboegh adds some important considerations. [added below, from http://sipseystreeti....blogspot.com/]

So, my friends, you must create that uproar.

People who sit back and cluck their tongues about "isn't it terrible that the ATF let those guns kill poor Mexicans" will come out of their chairs when they find out that they -- they personally -- have skin in this game: that the ATF and FBI are facilitating the purchase by felons of weapons to arm the street gangs in their town.

So get that message out, folks. Send a link to David's article and the emails which accompany it far and wide -- To your Congresscritters, to the press in your town, to friends and relatives, and plaster it all over the Internet.

We don't have the government we deserve, but rather the government we tolerate. And if enough folks decide this is intolerable, we'll get to the whole truth of the Gunwalker Plot.


Also see:

• A Journalist’s Guide to ‘Project Gunwalker' Part One, Part Two, Part Three, Part Four and Part Five for a complete list with links of independent investigative reporting and commentary done to date by Sipsey Street Irregulars and Gun Rights Examiner.
Note to newcomers to this story: “Project Gunrunner” is the name ATF assigned to its Southwest Border Initiative to interdict gun smuggling to Mexico. “Project Gunwalker” is the name I assigned to the scandal after allegations by agents that monitored guns were allowed to fall into criminal hands on both sides of the border through a surveillance process termed “walking” surfaced.
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Continue reading on Examiner.com Exclusive Report: Documents indicate ATF, FBI allowed Indiana ‘crime gun’ sales - National gun rights | Examiner.com http://www.examiner....e#ixzz1X7R06p7S




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