1315 replies to this topic

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Happy Memorial Day to all Americans. Thanks to those currently serving, and to those who have served. A Special thank you to those who have given the ultimate sacrifice, and their families, so that we may enjoy the freedoms of Democracy. You will always be in our prayers. Semper Fidelis

[Doc Holiday]

The hits just keep on coming. Apparently there has been an OIG Waste, Fraud and Abuse allegation filed related to the gross mishandling and misappropriation of NIBIN funds. Go Figure. Tens of millions of dollars diverted away from a program that could have put ATF on the map. The only question is, will any of the managers responsible be demoted or fired? A full audit has been requested and is appropriate. There are at least 10 witnesses who have fought to advance NIBIN who cant wait to be interviewed.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Bird called me and said Boston was a city of Cops Cops. Thanks for watchin our brothers back.

why didn't you maggots take care of bird. sendt him to boston and we will treat him like you should have. cops take care of their own in boston.

[patsceltsbruinssox]

why didn't you maggots take care of bird. sendt him to boston and we will treat him like you should have. cops take care of their own in boston.

[Thor God of Thunder]

It appears these recent changes are as well thought out as our Project Gunrunner, ESF 13, and our NRT management of the last year. Moving for the sake of moving can only be personal agenda drivin. Lets break this down logically. Mark Potter, one of the most whiny obstructionist NON law enforcement minded bosses in the country is now a DAD over a larger law enforcement component? Mr. Potter has NEVER done this job and quite frankly wouldn't recognize a convict in a penitentiary. Three months ago he cried because they wanted to make him head bean counter and it was embarrassing. So what does he do? Something NONE of us line agents aren't allowed to do, he TURNS DOWN THE TRANSFER and PROMOTION "do to personal reasons". Apparently those personal reason were rapidly resolved because NOW HE CAN take the transfer to HQ. This is bullshit Mr. Melson and YOU KNOW IT. Are we making room for Chait when Congress BLASTS his incompetence publicly?

Mr. Mcmahon the Edgar Domenech minion who has never had an original thought or made a decision in his entire managerial career goes to Internal Affairs? Is that a joke? He's now subordinate to yet ANOTHER LAWYER? Bill was a good, if not really good Agent, he should have stayed there. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt he the DAD for the entire gun-walking debacle? Didn't he fail to stop it, or report it as prescribed by policy and law? And now hes heading internal affairs? That's another great one Ken. Put a guy with NO personal integrity in charge of the integrity police. At least you know NO MANAGERS will be held accountable while quiet Bill is in internal affairs, only the Street Agents.

Greg Gant - Will probably elevate the professionalism of PGA after Thomasson and Ford have made us the laughing stock on the Hill and in the media. Not a horrible call.

Tom Brandon - No brainer. Not like Mr. Melson had a choice, he HAS to get this one right. Brandons No nonsense, all business. However, Phoenix' gain is clearly Detroits loss.

Mike Boxler - another good choice, but why not just make him ADFO instead of DADFO. Why create yet another expensive position when we all KNOW Boxler will be, and should be ADFO. Chait should and MAY be fired or prosecuted. If you're gonna send him to Philly, where he has been wanting to go and pretend its a punishment for Gun-walker, then just do it. We already have wayyyyy too many SES do nothing positions.

Ron Turk? Who know, and who cares. That pretty much says it all.

Joe Riehl - A poor Agent, and terrible Supervisor and a worthless Manager. Not my words. That came directly from the OIG, but as we all know ATF couldn't care less what the OIG says.

This shuffling, shell game doesn't impact the Bureaus leadership skills AT all. Mr. Melson has said we have NO move money. In fact we are at 1/3 of our normal transfer budget. Yet, this short term foolishness is going to cost the tax payers, at the BARE MINIMUM, Approx. 8 PCS moves at the cost of between $130,000 and $180,000 per move. Guess we do have discretionary move money. Are these bosses ever going to apply for a position and LEFT THERE to do their job? I think we see a theme here as to why we have no consistency in policy and leadership. Expect yet another NEW and IMPROVED strategic plan in the weeks to come.


*In regard to SAC Greg Gant - Sorry to be the bearer of bad news; He is probably the worst SAC and manager I have been associated with my entire career. I would guess his transfer is result of his mismanagement and EEO suits filed on him during his brief stay at the Atlanta FD.

**Correction** Mark Potter did not get the job as head bean counter because he wanted a relocation bonus to go along with it! This is one of the more gutsy decisions that Melson has made. Potter was supported by Chait in this fraud!

With regards to Michael Steele (Gant), 69 (McMahon) and Tatoo (Domenech) I agree! Joe Riehl (Fat Albert) what a slob for a manager and ATF only gets rid of people when they want to. ATF doesn't care about OIG and what they have to say. This is obvious! If ATF don't care about Congress (Gunrunner), they don't give a damn about OIG!

[Santino]

[quote name='Doc Holiday' timestamp='1305485694' post='2284']
It appears these recent changes are as well thought out as our Project Gunrunner, ESF 13, and our NRT management of the last year. Moving for the sake of moving can only be personal agenda drivin. Lets break this down logically. Mark Potter, one of the most whiny obstructionist NON law enforcement minded bosses in the country is now a DAD over a larger law enforcement component? Mr. Potter has NEVER done this job and quite frankly wouldn't recognize a convict in a penitentiary. Three months ago he cried because they wanted to make him head bean counter and it was embarrassing. So what does he do? Something NONE of us line agents aren't allowed to do, he TURNS DOWN THE TRANSFER and PROMOTION "do to personal reasons". Apparently those personal reason were rapidly resolved because NOW HE CAN take the transfer to HQ. This is bullshit Mr. Melson and YOU KNOW IT. Are we making room for Chait when Congress BLASTS his incompetence publicly?

Mr. Mcmahon the Edgar Domenech minion who has never had an original thought or made a decision in his entire managerial career goes to Internal Affairs? Is that a joke? He's now subordinate to yet ANOTHER LAWYER? Bill was a good, if not really good Agent, he should have stayed there. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt he the DAD for the entire gun-walking debacle? Didn't he fail to stop it, or report it as prescribed by policy and law? And now hes heading internal affairs? That's another great one Ken. Put a guy with NO personal integrity in charge of the integrity police. At least you know NO MANAGERS will be held accountable while quiet Bill is in internal affairs, only the Street Agents.

Greg Gant - Will probably elevate the professionalism of PGA after Thomasson and Ford have made us the laughing stock on the Hill and in the media. Not a horrible call.

Tom Brandon - No brainer. Not like Mr. Melson had a choice, he HAS to get this one right. Brandons No nonsense, all business. However, Phoenix' gain is clearly Detroits loss.

Mike Boxler - another good choice, but why not just make him ADFO instead of DADFO. Why create yet another expensive position when we all KNOW Boxler will be, and should be ADFO. Chait should and MAY be fired or prosecuted. If you're gonna send him to Philly, where he has been wanting to go and pretend its a punishment for Gun-walker, then just do it. We already have wayyyyy too many SES do nothing positions.

Ron Turk? Who know, and who cares. That pretty much says it all.

Joe Riehl - A poor Agent, and terrible Supervisor and a worthless Manager. Not my words. That came directly from the OIG, but as we all know ATF couldn't care less what the OIG says.

This shuffling, shell game doesn't impact the Bureaus leadership skills AT all. Mr. Melson has said we have NO move money. In fact we are at 1/3 of our normal transfer budget. Yet, this short term foolishness is going to cost the tax payers, at the BARE MINIMUM, Approx. 8 PCS moves at the cost of between $130,000 and $180,000 per move. Guess we do have discretionary move money. Are these bosses ever going to apply for a position and LEFT THERE to do their job? I think we see a theme here as to why we have no consistency in policy and leadership. Expect yet another NEW and IMPROVED strategic plan in the weeks to come.


*In regard to SAC Greg Gant - Sorry to be the bearer of bad news; He is probably the worst SAC and manager I have been associated with my entire career. I would guess his transfer is result of his mismanagement and EEO suits filed on him during his brief stay at the Atlanta FD.

[Zorro]

Something I hope congress will consider when they delve into the various levels of conduct of the agency business is a cap on SES positions. The same work can get done by people at the GS-15 grades w/out all the perks and bonuses. Save SES for maybe the director and A deputy (emphasis added to indicate not swelling the deputy ranks to 30-40 positions).

[The Shadow]

Vince is onto what may be the truth. Here is my personal, unsupported by independent fact or informant take on the reason for the buy-out at this time. As stated in the following taken from the offer: 3. If an employee meets the age and service requirements, are there any other restrictions that could prevent retirement under VERA (early retirement)? Yes, the VERA may only be offered to specified organizations, occupational groups and grades. In addition, the employee must: Occupy a position that is not a time-limited appointment; Have been continuously on the Department’s rolls at least 31 days prior to the date the agency initially requested approval for VERA; and Have not received a final removal decision based on misconduct or unacceptable performance. I see the occupational group and grade as 1811 SES. They get their paid moves, dodge the 1 year employment requirement, take the cash and bail before the last sentence (Have not received a final removal decision based on misconduct or unacceptable performance) takes place. This goes counter to the normal rule of do whatever you want, walk without consequence, get rehired as a consultant on top of your retirement. This would be deemed good for the agency by eliminating some top pay grades with too many already at that grade. Then they merge those in the new positions into the vacant ones to prove how much money was saved by letting those special executives take the bullet as heroes saving the agency in its time of financial crisis. That also avoids all the promotions and moves that would have taken place and adds to the saved dollar figures. How much does it save the agency for a mere agent compared to an essential SES to take the deal? Even discounting the way ATF manipulates anything dealing with numbers the savings here is huge with only a select few taking the deal. Why would an SES take such a deal instead of the new consultant career as per usual? ATF’s lawyers will approve making them one of ATF's famous deals they cannot refuse, just like they do with the agents that are sand in their gears. Leave or we will fire you, take your pension, and give a bad reference to anyone that thinks of employing someone past their prime. It does not matter if you did nothing wrong. ATF leaves the burden of proving yourself innocent to those that can afford the money and years of litigation before they even get a chance of presenting their case to a body that follows actual rules or laws. That scenario is no stranger than transferring a SAC to DC and celebrating her retirement as that of a National hero, instead of indicting and/or ousting her for the illegal actions documented within the OIG report. I know of more than a few ATF SES employees (yes employess not Kings)that would actually be qualified for that strictly qualified definition of hero.

[Zorro]

It may be an economic reality. Government in general has been living large with no restraint for years; ATF has expanded the lawyer and SES ranks, so some may have to go either by ERI or RIF. If it is by ERI and and a large number of operational people go, we will have even more overhead per capita than we do now - loads of statisticians and acedemics with fewer load bearers making cases or inspections.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

WHY would an agency tetering on the brink of being abolished even consider early
outs for their MOST expereinced employees? Read the proposed early out plan
CLOSELY, then weigh it against the FACTS. First, realize if you retire and sign
on with another Federal agency, EVEN AS A CONTRACTOR, you have to pay the $25000
back. The $25000 is taxable. With senior Agents retiring as fast as they can
because of the Gross Mismanagement, why would the Agency be trying to encourage
even more? Recently Mr. Melson stated in a town hall mtg that he was disturbed
at the high number of veteran agents leaving the agency before mandatory and was
looking into how to reverse that trend. Another lie? He has recently created NEW
SES positions. Needless and unnecessary SES transfers to get bosses to the posts
where they want to retire from. If the point is to cut our payroll obligations,
it doesn't make sense to be handing out these SES jobs right and left. Many of
these transfers are of bosses who are already eligible to retire and are facing
scrutiny on a series of abuses and unethical practices. Why would you invest one
dime in PROVEN incompetent managers? One recent example; Joe Riehl. Are the
senior agents being run off to fund these SES packages? Which position is most
valuable to advancing the Bureaus mission, an overpaid incompetent manager or a
seasoned career employee? Why do we have so many SES employees in positions that
could be performed by GS 14 and 15s? This is a clear indication that the self
promoting has taken the place of good sound business practices. Thanks to the
Newell and Gillette gun walker crew and the fifth floor, the tax payers are
eating A LOT of per diem money. This should be stopped immediately.
Congressional appropriations should slam the check book closed and ask for a
full accounting. Start with the 10s of millions of $$$$ that has been redirected
away from our NIBIN program for who knows what. This has ensured NIBINs failure.
These are dark days for our Bureau. Am I the only one who believes the end of
our Bureau in on the horizon without immediate congressional budgetary
oversight?

Can anyone speculate as to why the recent poll on early retirement incentives? If we are offered these incentives, would it be for budgetary reasons, or is this the beginning of the end of ATF? Are they polling all federal law enforcement agencies? We are such a small agency to be offering incentives like this for budgetary reasons. Any rumors about this? And if approved, how long before it could come into affect? Before December? Not until next year? I'm sure many of us are ready to get the hell out of this train wreck of an agency as soon as possible, but it would be nice to catch a few incentive dollars on the way! Any info would be appreciated.

[Doctor]

What we are seeing is the ATF version of the old shell game. The SAC position is now the dumping ground for failures. It is insulting to those SAC's that are doing a good job, but the fact is that the position is now identified as a place to put failures. I will miss some, but look at the current roster, Miami, Tampa, Houston, Seattle, Washington and soon Philly and Detroit. All incumbents occupied a position of national leadership, failed and were allowed to step back. We will only improve as an agency when we adopt the military system of move up or move out. That puts consequences to failed leadership and an incentive to make decisions that benefit ATF and not just the individual.

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream – and not make dreams your master;
If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ‘em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on!”

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings – nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And – which is more – you’ll be a Man, my son!

Rudyard Kipling, 1895

[Patriot]

What we are seeing is the ATF version of the old shell game. The SAC position is now the dumping ground for failures. It is insulting to those SAC's that are doing a good job, but the fact is that the position is now identified as a place to put failures. I will miss some, but look at the current roster, Miami, Tampa, Houston, Seattle, Washington and soon Philly and Detroit. All incumbents occupied a position of national leadership, failed and were allowed to step back. We will only improve as an agency when we adopt the military system of move up or move out. That puts consequences to failed leadership and an incentive to make decisions that benefit ATF and not just the individual.

[Doc Holiday]

Lets hope he has the courage to NOT follow the pack and do the right thing.

Now there is a postive and uplifting message. How great is it to hear about a Senior Executive who has an employee-first management style. The reccomendation from Big Can of Beans put a smile on my face. Changes come in small doses and too slow but that is an outstanding account of a guy who gets it.

Good luck Mr. Turk. Your agency is pulling for your success.

[Big Can of Beans]

Ron Turk is one of the best up and coming leaders in this agency. He's a military man, puts his people first, says whats on his mind, and is not afraid to respectfully challenge ATF leadersip (such that it is). By way of example, the NYFD has been in COOP for a full two years until today (and were it not for Ron's efforts I have no doubt in my mind that the division would be in COOP still today). During that time, the Division was relocated with two of the field groups in another building. Ron and the ASACs had 3 cubicles brought into a very small makeshift conference room and shared it for 2 years. There's a lot of other SACs/ASACs that would have kicked the GSs out of their office and made them sit in cubes. Ron is a class act and talented leader; I just hope he isn't being wasted on this farce of a shuffle.

It appears these recent changes are as well thought out as our Project Gunrunner, ESF 13, and our NRT management of the last year. Moving for the sake of moving can only be personal agenda drivin. Lets break this down logically. Mark Potter, one of the most whiny obstructionist NON law enforcement minded bosses in the country is now a DAD over a larger law enforcement component? Mr. Potter has NEVER done this job and quite frankly wouldn't recognize a convict in a penitentiary. Three months ago he cried because they wanted to make him head bean counter and it was embarrassing. So what does he do? Something NONE of us line agents aren't allowed to do, he TURNS DOWN THE TRANSFER and PROMOTION "do to personal reasons". Apparently those personal reason were rapidly resolved because NOW HE CAN take the transfer to HQ. This is bullshit Mr. Melson and YOU KNOW IT. Are we making room for Chait when Congress BLASTS his incompetence publicly?

Mr. Mcmahon the Edgar Domenech minion who has never had an original thought or made a decision in his entire managerial career goes to Internal Affairs? Is that a joke? He's now subordinate to yet ANOTHER LAWYER? Bill was a good, if not really good Agent, he should have stayed there. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt he the DAD for the entire gun-walking debacle? Didn't he fail to stop it, or report it as prescribed by policy and law? And now hes heading internal affairs? That's another great one Ken. Put a guy with NO personal integrity in charge of the integrity police. At least you know NO MANAGERS will be held accountable while quiet Bill is in internal affairs, only the Street Agents.

Greg Gant - Will probably elevate the professionalism of PGA after Thomasson and Ford have made us the laughing stock on the Hill and in the media. Not a horrible call.

Tom Brandon - No brainer. Not like Mr. Melson had a choice, he HAS to get this one right. Brandons No nonsense, all business. However, Phoenix' gain is clearly Detroits loss.

Mike Boxler - another good choice, but why not just make him ADFO instead of DADFO. Why create yet another expensive position when we all KNOW Boxler will be, and should be ADFO. Chait should and MAY be fired or prosecuted. If you're gonna send him to Philly, where he has been wanting to go and pretend its a punishment for Gun-walker, then just do it. We already have wayyyyy too many SES do nothing positions.

Ron Turk? Who know, and who cares. That pretty much says it all.

Joe Riehl - A poor Agent, and terrible Supervisor and a worthless Manager. Not my words. That came directly from the OIG, but as we all know ATF couldn't care less what the OIG says.

This shuffling, shell game doesn't impact the Bureaus leadership skills AT all. Mr. Melson has said we have NO move money. In fact we are at 1/3 of our normal transfer budget. Yet, this short term foolishness is going to cost the tax payers, at the BARE MINIMUM, Approx. 8 PCS moves at the cost of between $130,000 and $180,000 per move. Guess we do have discretionary move money. Are these bosses ever going to apply for a position and LEFT THERE to do their job? I think we see a theme here as to why we have no consistency in policy and leadership. Expect yet another NEW and IMPROVED strategic plan in the weeks to come.

[Doc Holiday]

It appears these recent changes are as well thought out as our Project Gunrunner, ESF 13, and our NRT management of the last year. Moving for the sake of moving can only be personal agenda drivin. Lets break this down logically. Mark Potter, one of the most whiny obstructionist NON law enforcement minded bosses in the country is now a DAD over a larger law enforcement component? Mr. Potter has NEVER done this job and quite frankly wouldn't recognize a convict in a penitentiary. Three months ago he cried because they wanted to make him head bean counter and it was embarrassing. So what does he do? Something NONE of us line agents aren't allowed to do, he TURNS DOWN THE TRANSFER and PROMOTION "do to personal reasons". Apparently those personal reason were rapidly resolved because NOW HE CAN take the transfer to HQ. This is bullshit Mr. Melson and YOU KNOW IT. Are we making room for Chait when Congress BLASTS his incompetence publicly? Mr. Mcmahon the Edgar Domenech minion who has never had an original thought or made a decision in his entire managerial career goes to Internal Affairs? Is that a joke? He's now subordinate to yet ANOTHER LAWYER? Bill was a good, if not really good Agent, he should have stayed there. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt he the DAD for the entire gun-walking debacle? Didn't he fail to stop it, or report it as prescribed by policy and law? And now hes heading internal affairs? That's another great one Ken. Put a guy with NO personal integrity in charge of the integrity police. At least you know NO MANAGERS will be held accountable while quiet Bill is in internal affairs, only the Street Agents. Greg Gant - Will probably elevate the professionalism of PGA after Thomasson and Ford have made us the laughing stock on the Hill and in the media. Not a horrible call. Tom Brandon - No brainer. Not like Mr. Melson had a choice, he HAS to get this one right. Brandons No nonsense, all business. However, Phoenix' gain is clearly Detroits loss. Mike Boxler - another good choice, but why not just make him ADFO instead of DADFO. Why create yet another expensive position when we all KNOW Boxler will be, and should be ADFO. Chait should and MAY be fired or prosecuted. If you're gonna send him to Philly, where he has been wanting to go and pretend its a punishment for Gun-walker, then just do it. We already have wayyyyy too many SES do nothing positions. Ron Turk? Who know, and who cares. That pretty much says it all. Joe Riehl - A poor Agent, and terrible Supervisor and a worthless Manager. Not my words. That came directly from the OIG, but as we all know ATF couldn't care less what the OIG says. This shuffling, shell game doesn't impact the Bureaus leadership skills AT all. Mr. Melson has said we have NO move money. In fact we are at 1/3 of our normal transfer budget. Yet, this short term foolishness is going to cost the tax payers, at the BARE MINIMUM, Approx. 8 PCS moves at the cost of between $130,000 and $180,000 per move. Guess we do have discretionary move money. Are these bosses ever going to apply for a position and LEFT THERE to do their job? I think we see a theme here as to why we have no consistency in policy and leadership. Expect yet another NEW and IMPROVED strategic plan in the weeks to come.

[lancebone1967]

Potter was the "Just Say No" SAC. "No" to everything and anything that had any risk. We are still law enforcement, I think, and there is inherent risk in our jobs when performed on the street.

The only things he ever said "yes" to was doing Truscott's nephew's homework, accepting a new Cadillac as a G-ride while his workers drove crap cars, taking eloborate trips on the G, and screwing over agents.

Why in the world would anyone give this guy more power and influence, most especially in very struggling times? It might be nothing more than an internal deal so Philly can open for Chait to have a post HQ home.

To second Patriot, these moves were the product of a small agency and a culture where all decisions are made for personal and emotional reasons. We may have been well served by hiring outsiders for some of these HQ positions...but the executive staff lacks the judgment of character to pick outside talent (i.e. we would have hired external versions of the same yes-man style, not the dynamic servant-leaders we desperately need). I can see why Philly was promoted. He would have NEVER let the Phoenix crisis happen because he never lets ANYTHING happen. They just promoted the ultimate liability crazed careerist bureaucrat who will be looking for the next boondoggle to Europe in first class seats.

[Cool Hand]

To second Patriot, these moves were the product of a small agency and a culture where all decisions are made for personal and emotional reasons. We may have been well served by hiring outsiders for some of these HQ positions...but the executive staff lacks the judgment of character to pick outside talent (i.e. we would have hired external versions of the same yes-man style, not the dynamic servant-leaders we desperately need). I can see why Philly was promoted. He would have NEVER let the Phoenix crisis happen because he never lets ANYTHING happen. They just promoted the ultimate liability crazed careerist bureaucrat who will be looking for the next boondoggle to Europe in first class seats.

[Patriot]

Today's moves are the consequence of a small agency. There is no place to put failed leaders. With some exceptions their failed leadership may not rise to dismissal, so what do you do with them. In this case move them. It is a version of the old shell game. I cannot understand the logic of keeping these guys in positions that require them to make sound decisions and demonstrate competent leaderships skills, when the failure of both is the reason for the moves. Why not put them back on the street and get a days work out of them. I know that that almost sounds offensive to the hard working street agents, to suggest this, but maybe these guys could learn something from the men and women who do the work of this agency..

[abteilung]

Then the question is, HOW does Hoover/Melson promote Riehl after the Office of the Inspector General gives him a big fat "F" for his GROSS mismanagement and waste fraud and abuse related to our NRT program. I know Billy went to the academy with Riehl, but Jeez guys our NRT?

IT'S CALLED DIVINE RIGHT OF THE RIEHLS

[Doc Holiday]

Leaving out Newell and Gillette. Not thinking there is going to be any Special asst. to director spots for them. Gillette and Newell have a history of excessive abuses that are going to crush them EVEN IF Gillette ran to Grassleys beggin W B protection. They are headed for orange jumpsuits. McMahons days of spinning the agencys actions are gonna get him a ride out of town too. Everything F&F went through him and he and Martin failed to report or STOP it outright. Cowardice is the word you are looking for. If an agent got an LFS evaluation, what would happen to him/her? Then the question is, HOW does Hoover/Melson promote Riehl after the Office of the Inspector General gives him a big fat "F" for his GROSS mismanagement and waste fraud and abuse related to our NRT program. I know Billy went to the academy with Riehl, but Jeez guys our NRT?

There is and has been NO accountability for serious violations of policy and law by senior managers. That is exactly why there is no confidence in the leadership of ATF. All of Mr. Melsons denials have destroyed his credibility and can no longer lead this agency. His representation that CUATF allegations are just uninformed baseless "vitriolic" rants totally cost him standing and he must quietly go away. Why? Yes, the agency had to settle a discrimination case behind Thomassons actions. Yes Vanessa "lied" under oath and was protected. Yes Crenshaw had affairs with his then married secratary and scammed trips to FLETC to make booty calls and had huge travel issues. Yes, same for Carter and Hoover booty calls with subordinates. These managers are all still in their positions or were allowed to retire at tax payer expense with lofty SES pensions.

Ford lied to Congress multiple times. Loos protected one of her staff attorneys after falsifying documents and facilitated him getting another government atty job and shes still on the job. Horace was forcibly removed from his previous ASAC job for HUGE ethical lapses and misuse of government property, he later reports his G ride stolen when it was actually towed from a strip club. Internal affairs has whitewashed and covered ALL of these actions.

Richardson "lacked candor", which is a nice way to say lied and he sits in judgement of Agents conduct and is in fact allowing one of our best 20 yr agents to be fired for having a slow yr. That slow yr still produced more cases than the ENTIRE Oakland field office during the same time period. A 20 yr Agent in Chicago is being terminated over a tit for tat issue with the U.S. Attys Office merely because TRAVER, YES TRAVER doesnt feel its a good time to stand up to the U S Attys office. Go Figure.

Martin leaks info to the media re: fast and furious so he can grandstand when everybody else burns down behind the oversight. Problem with that is, they are suing Jay Dobyns for glorifying the agency but violating the media policy. You think they are going to sue Martin? WHEN AND WHERE DOES IT STOP? None of this is/was necessary. This is what happens when you get consummed by power and it goes unchecked.

[Iceman]

There is and has been NO accountability for serious violations of policy and law by senior managers. That is exactly why there is no confidence in the leadership of ATF. All of Mr. Melsons denials have destroyed his credibility and can no longer lead this agency. His representation that CUATF allegations are just uninformed baseless "vitriolic" rants totally cost him standing and he must quietly go away. Why? Yes, the agency had to settle a discrimination case behind Thomassons actions. Yes Vanessa "lied" under oath and was protected. Yes Crenshaw had affairs with his then married secratary and scammed trips to FLETC to make booty calls and had huge travel issues. Yes, same for Carter and Hoover booty calls with subordinates. These managers are all still in their positions or were allowed to retire at tax payer expense with lofty SES pensions.

Ford lied to Congress multiple times. Loos protected one of her staff attorneys after falsifying documents and facilitated him getting another government atty job and shes still on the job. Horace was forcibly removed from his previous ASAC job for HUGE ethical lapses and misuse of government property, he later reports his G ride stolen when it was actually towed from a strip club. Internal affairs has whitewashed and covered ALL of these actions.

Richardson "lacked candor", which is a nice way to say lied and he sits in judgement of Agents conduct and is in fact allowing one of our best 20 yr agents to be fired for having a slow yr. That slow yr still produced more cases than the ENTIRE Oakland field office during the same time period. A 20 yr Agent in Chicago is being terminated over a tit for tat issue with the U.S. Attys Office merely because TRAVER, YES TRAVER doesnt feel its a good time to stand up to the U S Attys office. Go Figure.

Martin leaks info to the media re: fast and furious so he can grandstand when everybody else burns down behind the oversight. Problem with that is, they are suing Jay Dobyns for glorifying the agency but violating the media policy. You think they are going to sue Martin? WHEN AND WHERE DOES IT STOP? None of this is/was necessary. This is what happens when you get consummed by power and it goes unchecked.

Wasn't Thomasson found guilty in a discrimination case that involved the American's With Disabilites Act? It was when he was the ASAC in Seattle I believe. Aren't you suppose to be fired after that happens?

Wasn't McLemore supposed to be fired after she was found to have lied to investigators not once but twice? Didn't John Torres catch a disability judgement against him in San Francisco? How is he still around? Pretty sure Crenshaw was involved in all kinds of inappropriate stuff with his secretary. Nothing comes of it. Pretty sure Ronnie Carter got run out of town for the same thing. Billy Hoover is hooked up with the chick from Chief Counsels office. No action taken. Matt Horace has pretty much done it all walks away from everything. Marvin Richardson answered questions with less than candor from investigators and through his agents under the bus to protect himself. Joe Gordon lied about everything and had over 20 EEOC complaints and they allowed him to just retire.

ATF is trying to fire and discipline multiple agents right now over stuff insignificant compared to the crimes and indiscretions committed by the executives.

THere is a reason why the vote of no confidence is coming from the field. We don't trust HQ to be fair or honest.

Wait and see what happens to Newell and Gillett. If they both become Special Assistants to the Director then you know they got taken care of and their crimes were covered up.

[Iceman]

Do tell Noreaster? Cant be right. Potter bought a Cadillac with tax payer money and was still slated for promotion to AD CFO/Mngmnt. But requested NOT be transferred due to "PERSONAL" reasons. I guess if your a SAC, the mobility agreement doesnt apply. ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION MR. MELSON? Not ONE agent has been allowed to drive the Bureaus needs because of PERSONAL reasons. Where is Turk going? Is there even ONE good reason with the Bureau falling apart right before our eyes to play the shell game and waste more money, disrupt the continuity of the Bureau and try to SHOW change. Congress is watching and so is the American public. STOP, take a deep breath and stop making our incompetence so obvious.

Iceman - Gant and Thomasson are serious buddies and have been since at least their Colorado Springs days. With Gant going to DAD of PGA, he will protect his bud at all costs. Count on it. Rumor on the street is a big deck chair shuffle is coming. Sources say Tom Brandon is staying in Arizona and Bill "Hell No" Newell gets a fake Vanessa McLemore job while they decide what to do with him. Rumor also that Ron Turk from New York and Mark "Cadillac" Potter may be looking for a moving van. I am sure glad we have lots of money to shift SESers around.

[lancebone1967]

Wasn't Thomasson found guilty in a discrimination case that involved the American's With Disabilites Act? It was when he was the ASAC in Seattle I believe. Aren't you suppose to be fired after that happens? Wasn't McLemore supposed to be fired after she was found to have lied to investigators not once but twice? Didn't John Torres catch a disability judgement against him in San Francisco? How is he still around? Pretty sure Crenshaw was involved in all kinds of inappropriate stuff with his secretary. Nothing comes of it. Pretty sure Ronnie Carter got run out of town for the same thing. Billy Hoover is hooked up with the chick from Chief Counsels office. No action taken. Matt Horace has pretty much done it all walks away from everything. Marvin Richardson answered questions with less than candor from investigators and through his agents under the bus to protect himself. Joe Gordon lied about everything and had over 20 EEOC complaints and they allowed him to just retire. ATF is trying to fire and discipline multiple agents right now over stuff insignificant compared to the crimes and indiscretions committed by the executives. THere is a reason why the vote of no confidence is coming from the field. We don't trust HQ to be fair or honest. Wait and see what happens to Newell and Gillett. If they both become Special Assistants to the Director then you know they got taken care of and their crimes were covered up.

[Noreaster]

OK, someone explain this to me. HQ knows Scot Thomasson is abusive, incompetent and has NO business in a leadership position. This is evidenced by the Bureau having to spend PCS money we allegedly DONT HAVE to bring Greg Gant in to be his boss. No slam to Greg, but Thomasson has been a ASAC (poor one) for years, now he's been a Division Chief (horrible one)for more years. Why didnt they just promote him. Oh yeah, he's a terrible representative of what our Bureau is about and stands for. Thats WHY.

Iceman - Gant and Thomasson are serious buddies and have been since at least their Colorado Springs days. With Gant going to DAD of PGA, he will protect his bud at all costs. Count on it. Rumor on the street is a big deck chair shuffle is coming. Sources say Tom Brandon is staying in Arizona and Bill "Hell No" Newell gets a fake Vanessa McLemore job while they decide what to do with him. Rumor also that Ron Turk from New York and Mark "Cadillac" Potter may be looking for a moving van. I am sure glad we have lots of money to shift SESers around.

[Iceman]

OK, someone explain this to me. HQ knows Scot Thomasson is abusive, incompetent and has NO business in a leadership position. This is evidenced by the Bureau having to spend PCS money we allegedly DONT HAVE to bring Greg Gant in to be his boss. No slam to Greg, but Thomasson has been a ASAC (poor one) for years, now he's been a Division Chief (horrible one)for more years. Why didnt they just promote him. Oh yeah, he's a terrible representative of what our Bureau is about and stands for. Thats WHY.

[Doc Holiday]

IF in fact Mr. Melson is holding back on acting on disciplinary actions or adverse actions related to SES employees, this is what we will say about that. "Acting" is not the operative word sir, DIRECTOR is. If you are sitting on them to protect corrupt managers buying them time like ATF did with Vanessa Mclemore, you are a coward. You dont hesitate to hold town hall meetings, press conferences, sign Bureau policies and discipline GS 13s and below. If you are holding them until Andy Traver can get confirmed and come in looking like some kind of strong leader and change Agent, it aint gonna happen. Traver is NOT that dynamic and you will be seen for the political smoke and mirrors. Pull the trigger, be a Director and quit playing with our Bureau. These bosses need to go. Sorry if that includes Hoover, McMahon, Martin, Ford, Torres (John), Gleysteen, Newell, Vido, Gillette and Chait. When in command, COMMAND. If those actions are pending, its YOUR JOB to make it so.

Question to Acting Director Kenneth Melson.

Is it true that you have a file cabinet full of OIG investigations that prove bad conduct by ATF Senior Executive Service employees but you are refusing to enact any displine against them using the excuse that SES's should not disciplined by an "Acting" Director and you are holding them for an appointed or confirmed Director?

If this is true and your answer is "yes" then your problems are even bigger than we imagined. We will find out.

[Cool Hand]

This much I will add. The more information I hear from credible sources throughout the agency, the more I realize the sad state of affairs in ATF. In my opinion, we are in worse shape than we think. Perhaps our latest scandal has been politicized or given to partisan mud-slinging, but underneath it all we have an organization that is floundering and in desperate need of new and effective management. Regardless of the political affiliation of any given administration, the military would have fired its bad actors months, if not years, ago and changed its strategy immediately.

[Winston Smith]

Time for a reality check Doc Holiday. This entire website is full of postings about individual transgressions which highlight our agency's lack of accountability and oversight. Many of these same postings are incoherent rantings, filled with personal feelings or worse. The last sentence in my post about creating a discussion for Mr. Strip Club Gov's stories is sarcasm. Relax.

The strip club GOV is NOT folklore. Nor is the Cadillac SAC and ASAC. Neither is Mr. "Lack of Candor" as SAC of Denver, and on and on. The point here is accountability and oversight, NOT individual transgressions.

[Doc Holiday]

The strip club GOV is NOT folklore. Nor is the Cadillac SAC and ASAC. Neither is Mr. "Lack of Candor" as SAC of Denver, and on and on. The point here is accountability and oversight, NOT individual transgressions.

Apostate,

Very true words. How can Mr. Strip Club GOV get away with saying that to a Senior Agent? There is no incentive for anyone to remain a street agent into their late 40's or early 50's. Years ago, lots of people stayed on because they enjoyed it, and found it rewarding. Similar to being on a Navy ship, where the Capt. and XO would consult with the Chief for advice on just about everything. Talent is leaving ATF for a reason. We are starting to become an Agency full of inexperienced 14's & 15's who abuse subordinates, overindulge in alcohol, misuse their position for personal gain, and other nasty things. Too many Snr. Mgt. officials are more interested in taking care of a select group of favorites rather than doing the right thing. How is this possible. We need some oversight from Congress fast!

Can someone please start a Discussion Topic just for Mr. Strip Club GOV folklore? There have got to be some good true stories out there. That should shut him up.

[Winston Smith]

Apostate, Very true words. How can Mr. Strip Club GOV get away with saying that to a Senior Agent? There is no incentive for anyone to remain a street agent into their late 40's or early 50's. Years ago, lots of people stayed on because they enjoyed it, and found it rewarding. Similar to being on a Navy ship, where the Capt. and XO would consult with the Chief for advice on just about everything. Talent is leaving ATF for a reason. We are starting to become an Agency full of inexperienced 14's & 15's who abuse subordinates, overindulge in alcohol, misuse their position for personal gain, and other nasty things. Too many Snr. Mgt. officials are more interested in taking care of a select group of favorites rather than doing the right thing. How is this possible. We need some oversight from Congress fast! Can someone please start a Discussion Topic just for Mr. Strip Club GOV folklore? There have got to be some good true stories out there. That should shut him up.

[apostate]

Word is that a large number of Sr ATF Special Agents are accepting lateral transfers over at DHS HSI (Formerly ICE). Spoke to a buddy leaving ATF after 15 years and he is sick and tired of the corrupt ATF management. He went to the assesment center 5 years ago and was told by his reviewer, ASAC (Mr Strip club GOV), that he was not experienced enough for a RAC job. This guy had over 80 Federal prosecutions. The ASAC had less than 3 prosecutions. ATF has become, since the Waco debacle, a totallly corrupt and inept organization. When was the last time you witnessed someone with actual investigative experience get promoted?? Take a look at the recent promotions. Experienced and talented agents leaving ATF in this economy. What does this tell you? Maybe ATF needs more photo ops of bake sales on their web site. Zero money for mission sensitive training or for important investigations affecting public safety but plenty of money for "special" conferences. Where are the priorties?

[Doc Holiday]

I do NOT know the RAC in Delaware. I have no idea what he did or didn't do. If he screwed the pooch THAT bad, then he's toast, see ya, adios. BUT, it better have been as or more severe than the violations of policy and law perpetrated by Torres, Crenshaw, Hoover, Horace, Martin, Gleysteen and Mclemore, Newell and Gillette. That's all I'm saying. Cant clean house from the bottom up.

[GoodWorker]

Doc, no disrespect, but do you have any idea what this "so called Leader" did? Why are you downplaying this? Is he your friend? Sources say RAC DE really screwed the pooch and may be fighting termination. Is the agency is finally taking appropriate action.

I do not think Doc is condoning anything. I think he is only saying that HQ has given a lot of the bigger bosses a pass on even more serious offenses. I do not know the RAC or what the RAC did and if he did something that warrants termination, so be it. I think most of us wish that someone would hold our top leaders accountable for the disgrace they brought on the agency, the US Government, and the American people.

[Winston Smith]

Doc, no disrespect, but do you have any idea what this "so called Leader" did? Why are you downplaying this? Is he your friend? Sources say RAC DE really screwed the pooch and may be fighting termination. Is the agency is finally taking appropriate action.

No qualms applying the standards to all. BUT, If I'm the RAC in Delaware, I'm saying to Mr. Melson and others, SERIOUSLY? We have senior Executive Schedule bosses in HQ getting passes on inappropriate affairs with their counsel, AFs lying and witholding from congress, Div Chiefs getting failing grades related to their running of the NRT, SES' buying Cadillacs, Having G cars towed from strip joints, conspiring to commit straw purchases, failing along the border and we can only find a RAC in Delaware to get tough on? This is sickening.

[Doc Holiday]

Does Anybody know what the OIG did regarding the strongarming under color of law?? Does anyone know if SAC Torres is going to be charged with abuse of authority for strongarming the production company? He wanted a Million dollars for his life story. Did the agency refer it to the IG? Shouldn't he be relieved of duty and sued by the DOJ for harming the agency like they have done to SA Dobyns. Isn't extortion illegal.

[ProConfesso]

No qualms applying the standards to all. BUT, If I'm the RAC in Delaware, I'm saying to Mr. Melson and others, SERIOUSLY? We have senior Executive Schedule bosses in HQ getting passes on inappropriate affairs with their counsel, AFs lying and witholding from congress, Div Chiefs getting failing grades related to their running of the NRT, SES' buying Cadillacs, Having G cars towed from strip joints, conspiring to commit straw purchases, failing along the border and we can only find a RAC in Delaware to get tough on? This is sickening.

HQ SES affairs with ATF attorneys in Chief Counsel's Office?????????????????????????

[Doc Holiday]

No qualms applying the standards to all. BUT, If I'm the RAC in Delaware, I'm saying to Mr. Melson and others, SERIOUSLY? We have senior Executive Schedule bosses in HQ getting passes on inappropriate affairs with their counsel, AFs lying and witholding from congress, Div Chiefs getting failing grades related to their running of the NRT, SES' buying Cadillacs, Having G cars towed from strip joints, conspiring to commit straw purchases, failing along the border and we can only find a RAC in Delaware to get tough on? This is sickening.

Late news breaking. The Ministry of Truth wants you to believe that the RAC of Wilmington, DE is on "leave." The latest G2 from our brother/sisters of the resistance movement is the RAC just screwed the pooch. The SAC and ASAC of Baltimore were observed visiting Delaware today, and Acting RACs are now in place. Not the first time this RAC has crapped in his sector, there is a history. Other agencies have complained about him.

Someone must have additional information.

How many other Supervisors have recently gotten into trouble but went unnoticed due to the domination of news by Phoenix's woes?

[Winston Smith]

Late news breaking. The Ministry of Truth wants you to believe that the RAC of Wilmington, DE is on "leave." The latest G2 from our brother/sisters of the resistance movement is the RAC just screwed the pooch. The SAC and ASAC of Baltimore were observed visiting Delaware today, and Acting RACs are now in place. Not the first time this RAC has crapped in his sector, there is a history. Other agencies have complained about him.

Someone must have additional information.

How many other Supervisors have recently gotten into trouble but went unnoticed due to the domination of news by Phoenix's woes?

[apostate]

Today's ATF:

ATF's silence on Gunrunner and Agent Brian Terry's death is deafening. Senator Grassley, after Waco, investigative hearings were held while an investigation was being conducted. Has the law on that changed? Which brings me to the culprits.

Hoover steps down three levels from the Deputy Director to the SAC Washington. I guess he'll have a chair when the music stops. The big boys always do. Melson will hide under the arm of Mama Holder. Does anyone find it peculiar that Hoover is the third Deputy Director to be demoted three levels in recent times, Domenech and Carter the others? This is a big reason why there is no discipline or accountability here. Even as you rise in stature at ATF you don't hold your subordinates accountable because you very well could be working for them soon and at ATF payback is a bitch. This is the equivalent of a police department routinely taking Assistant Chiefs and pushing them down in the ranks to Luietenants. Chait may be the odd man out unless they send him to fill Newell's vacated post in Phoenix. That may be a good move because he will only have to move down two levels rather than the historical three. This 'hide the failure' management style happens no where in law enforcement but ATF. ICE just terminated some high level managers for inappropriate on-the-job affairs with subordinates, which brings me to Gilett.

Gilett takes a huge lick for the very same thing and he remains in place and is allowed to manage (if you can call it that) Gunrunner and remain in the good graces of HQ, which brings me to Needles.

Needles took over Gunrunner when Gilett took his disciplinary time off. I guess his upside is that he doesn't openly retaliate against his subordinates, so that's a big plus as an ATF boss. Which brings me to Newell.

He reportedly is walking around like absolutely nothing is wrong and moving as quickly as possible to get in the Mexico Attache' chair. Shouldn't he be the the guy briefing Grassley explaining why thousands of guns in the ATF Crime Gun database are not accounted for during his watch. Which brings me to McDermond.

Instead ATF sacrifices McDermond to be the bag boy because McDermond did not grow up on the job with the rest of ATF's incestuous managers. He is an outsider raised by another agency and they are more than willing to let him do their dirty work and protect Newell and the others. Which brings me to Traver.

He has simply got to be livid at Newell for delaying and probably destroying his chance at confirmation for Director. How could he not be? Obama backed him, the President of the United States, and his run is being monkeywrenched by an incompetent SAC in Phoenix. Which brings me to yesterday's Fox News segment.

The Fox correspondent did her best to prop up Traver after he was supplexed by the GOA rep. She cited his great leadership in reducing gun crime in the Chicagoland area. Well Fox, do your research. They obviously did not speak to any working agents in Chicago before they took that stance. Traver is known to be an absentee SAC. He rarely even visits his downtown and outlying offices where the action really is and instead chooses to stay out in luxurious Oakbrook. Traver and his ASAC's stand in the way of every dynamic case that is attempted in Chicago and only hold press conferences to take credit when the outstanding field agents and staff overcome their roadblocks to make the cases that Fox uses to tout his success. Which brings me to...

Ah, screw this. I could go on all day.

So ICE and other professional law enforcement agencies terminate Management types who abuse their position of authority to engage in inappropriate relationships with subordinate employess. On teh flip side ATF promotes those that abuse their authority, lie comitt fraud, steal instead of firing them. No wonder ATF has lost all respect with other agencies and the tax paying public

[limestonenerd]

The grapevine says the Melson is poor mouthing Grassley behind closed doors. Guess he's telling the inner circle that Grassley has no business in ATF's business.

[Iceman]

This is great. Congress is going to take a thorough look at our failures of the last few years. 320 days avg. On EEOC complaints? Seriously?

www.CleanUpATF.org is now accessible to all employees' Blackberrys (or other web-capable smart phones).

Be part of the solution.