1315 replies to this topic

[nylawman]

rumor has it that ATF is going to Homeland investigations ...ATF already put out bureau wide of the early out getting 25,000 . i don't think any 1811 is going to take it...the us attorney in AZ was let go...thats what we heard...the acting director is already starting his town hall speeches ...its going to get bad...we have no money...the agency is going down hill..its sad...

[spinax489]

Here's the direct link to Vince's interview on Democracy Now...

http://www.democracy..._gun_sting_fast

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

I will be interviewed regarding whistle blower reprisals and the tragic and reckless conduct of our leadership tomorrow a. m. on Democracy NOW. The following link will identify the channels in your area. As stated in the CUATF mission statement, we have come together to right the wrongs and lift this Agency back into its greatness. Brian Terry and Jaime Zapata and the countless Mexicans will not be forgotten. You have ALL made this possible. The show will air at 0800-0900 EST check the link for your area. And God Bless Chairman Issa and Senator Grassley and the oversight Committee. Vince
http://www.democracynow.org/stations

Signed

Kenny Melson, William Hoover, Mark Chait, William McMahon, William Newell, George Gillette, David Voth, Steven Rubenstien, Eleanor Loos, Teresa Ficaretta, Arthur Herbert, and a host of other SESers and GS-15s.

[Retired and loving it]

We are in charge. How dare you question me. I know whats best for you. You can kiss my ring now.

Signed

Kenny Melson, William Hoover, Mark Chait, William McMahon, William Newell, George Gillette, David Voth, Steven Rubenstien, Eleanor Loos, Teresa Ficaretta, Arthur Herbert, and a host of other SESers and GS-15s.

[ISpy]

Guts indeed. It is a sad fact of human nature that a large percentage of those who rise to high levels in a bureaucracy do so with a political agenda in tow. When such bureaucrats are then given power to make regulation with the force of law in defiance of the legislative body, because they have an Executive Branch at their back which is more than willing to rule by decree (Executive Order) where it cannot gain legislative approval, then our country is in very dire straights. This celebration is in truly poor taste, not to mention out of step with duty and ethics, but it is revealing. The ATF is not the only agency getting the benefit of authoritarian power via the regulatory pen. The NLRB, the EPA and others are doing the same. Now we have essentially the core elements of the Dream Act being implemented by the Executive Branch with no legislative authority. We elected a King apparently, and a very childish one at that. When he can't have his way, he is not only shocked that the legislature or the public cannot see how much better we all would be if we would just accept his greater intellect and benevolent policies, but he can't accept a shred of responsibility for his failures and always has his real or imagined political enemies to blame instead. Now he has found that he doesn't NEED a legislature after all. He has the almighty Executive pen!

Not to get too off track here, but whatever one feels about the value of the multiple rifle sales reporting regulation, it has come about in a blatant end run around Congress and is symptomatic of a dangerous pattern. Rather than holding a celebration, good public servants (like those of you here have shown yourselves to be) should be reluctant to implement something so obviously without legitimate authority of law. Sadly, the men who call the shots at ATF are, generally speaking, not good public servants. They are polical animals at their core.

VERY GOOD POST. I think that goes to the core of the problem with our Agency and this Govt in general. We are in charge. How dare you question me. I know whats best for you. You can kiss my ring now.

[Outsider]

Guts indeed. It is a sad fact of human nature that a large percentage of those who rise to high levels in a bureaucracy do so with a political agenda in tow. When such bureaucrats are then given power to make regulation with the force of law in defiance of the legislative body, because they have an Executive Branch at their back which is more than willing to rule by decree (Executive Order) where it cannot gain legislative approval, then our country is in very dire straights. This celebration is in truly poor taste, not to mention out of step with duty and ethics, but it is revealing. The ATF is not the only agency getting the benefit of authoritarian power via the regulatory pen. The NLRB, the EPA and others are doing the same. Now we have essentially the core elements of the Dream Act being implemented by the Executive Branch with no legislative authority. We elected a King apparently, and a very childish one at that. When he can't have his way, he is not only shocked that the legislature or the public cannot see how much better we all would be if we would just accept his greater intellect and benevolent policies, but he can't accept a shred of responsibility for his failures and always has his real or imagined political enemies to blame instead. Now he has found that he doesn't NEED a legislature after all. He has the almighty Executive pen!

Not to get too off track here, but whatever one feels about the value of the multiple rifle sales reporting regulation, it has come about in a blatant end run around Congress and is symptomatic of a dangerous pattern. Rather than holding a celebration, good public servants (like those of you here have shown yourselves to be) should be reluctant to implement something so obviously without legitimate authority of law. Sadly, the men who call the shots at ATF are, generally speaking, not good public servants. They are polical animals at their core.

[Zorro]

To be fair, they do have guts. Making the "protection moves" at taxpayer expense and celebrating successfully circumventing congress and the FOPA (which I believe will be temporary) while under the congressional and public microscopes.... not bad - and hopefully will make for some first rate entertainment when congress returns.

And, yes - if the NTC contractors get laid off, look out. Good luck getting ATF 13s and 14s to do "contractor work".

[ProConfesso]

Never in my career have I seen such extreme contempt and outright disdain for the U.S. Congress and their obvious intent in the GCA and Gun-owners Protection Act as I see in the below email generated by the AD and DAD of Enforcement Programs and Services. When did ATF become partisan and political taking a stance FOR or AGAINST the laws and regulations we are expected to enforce without bias or prejudice? At least be quietly professional or express your opinions in private as a private citizen. NOT IN A GOVERNMENT ATRIUM, ON GOVERNMENT TIME WITH GOVERNMENT RESOURCES. Have we solved violent crime in this country to the extent that we can party for championing OUR or ANY administrations agenda? You Ms. Ficaretta and Mr. Herbert are an outright embarrassment and do not truly understand who and what we have taken an oath to. WE DON'T TAKE SIDES, EVER.

Not only is this an ill advised concept, as we have no agents or inspectors to ever significantly process that many multiple sales reports, it produces minimal information in relation to cost and wasted time, we could be actually physically intercepting firearms.

From:
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:36 AM
Subject: Rifle Multiple Sale Reporting Program Celebration

Please join us on Wednesday, August 31, at 9:30 a.m., in Conference Room B to celebrate the successful completion of the rifle multiple sale reporting program. Collaboration among many directorates made this program possible, and ______ and I want to recognize and thank all the employees who contributed to our success.

This celebration will be held in connection with our EPS supervisors meeting to be held in the same room beginning at 10am. Please forward this invitation to all the remaining EPS supervisors in Martinsburg. I initially tried to list all their names, but I know I will leave some of the section supervisors out, and our celebration would not be complete without them. ______ and I look forward to seeing you all in Martinsburg.

Celebration??? Echar el carro antes de los bueyes. I always found it funny, if not outrageous, ATF managers who held press conferences announcing new programs, office openings, initiatives etc...only to be forgotten about when they failed, yielded minimal results or just flickered away. Why in the world this would be a cause for a "celebration" only speaks to the mental state of the individual involved. Even if this led to an interdiction of firearms used for nefarious purposes, what is the cost (figuratively and in civil liberties). This is a victory? Slow Paper Multiple sales reporting of long guns? Danger still lurks in that. Dare to be different if this is your objective. Create a white paper analyzing the the pros & cons of the law prohibiting firearm registration. Have computerized FFL point of sale buyer data available thru NCIC to all law enforcement agencies so that they have immediate real time info on gun sales. Oh, wait. Admiral Nelson, er, I mean a SAC had info on straws and turned a blind eye. And what was all this nonsense at that Hearing with doofus #1 & 2 and the talk about a "new" statute for firearms trafficking. What about dealing w/o a license. What about the courts and individual states and USA's office enforement & interpretation of the law. That simpleton Maloney asking comments on a hypothetical law that is not even written or explained. And the band plays on.

[ATFTRUTHTELLER]

Never in my career have I seen such extreme contempt and outright disdain for the U.S. Congress and their obvious intent in the GCA and Gun-owners Protection Act as I see in the below email generated by the AD and DAD of Enforcement Programs and Services. When did ATF become partisan and political taking a stance FOR or AGAINST the laws and regulations we are expected to enforce without bias or prejudice? At least be quietly professional or express your opinions in private as a private citizen. NOT IN A GOVERNMENT ATRIUM, ON GOVERNMENT TIME WITH GOVERNMENT RESOURCES. Have we solved violent crime in this country to the extent that we can party for championing OUR or ANY administrations agenda? You Ms. Ficaretta and Mr. Herbert are an outright embarrassment and do not truly understand who and what we have taken an oath to. WE DON'T TAKE SIDES, EVER.

Not only is this an ill advised concept, as we have no agents or inspectors to ever significantly process that many multiple sales reports, it produces minimal information in relation to cost and wasted time, we could be actually physically intercepting firearms.

From:
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:36 AM
Subject: Rifle Multiple Sale Reporting Program Celebration

Please join us on Wednesday, August 31, at 9:30 a.m., in Conference Room B to celebrate the successful completion of the rifle multiple sale reporting program. Collaboration among many directorates made this program possible, and ______ and I want to recognize and thank all the employees who contributed to our success.

This celebration will be held in connection with our EPS supervisors meeting to be held in the same room beginning at 10am. Please forward this invitation to all the remaining EPS supervisors in Martinsburg. I initially tried to list all their names, but I know I will leave some of the section supervisors out, and our celebration would not be complete without them. ______ and I look forward to seeing you all in Martinsburg.

Only in ATF! We have laid off all the contractors at the tracing center, so there will be no one to do the reporting, tracing or tracking of multiple sales. BUT, we got permission to track multiple sales on assault type weapons on the southwest border. Great, we now have permission to track something, but no one to do the actual work. Are they crazy? I bet the SESs will still get their giant bonuses this year, $15k to $50k. Someone please do something.

[Doc Holiday]

Never in my career have I seen such extreme contempt and outright disdain for the U.S. Congress and their obvious intent in the GCA and Gun-owners Protection Act as I see in the below email generated by the AD and DAD of Enforcement Programs and Services. When did ATF become partisan and political taking a stance FOR or AGAINST the laws and regulations we are expected to enforce without bias or prejudice? At least be quietly professional or express your opinions in private as a private citizen. NOT IN A GOVERNMENT ATRIUM, ON GOVERNMENT TIME WITH GOVERNMENT RESOURCES. Have we solved violent crime in this country to the extent that we can party for championing OUR or ANY administrations agenda? You Ms. Ficaretta and Mr. Herbert are an outright embarrassment and do not truly understand who and what we have taken an oath to. WE DON'T TAKE SIDES, EVER.

Not only is this an ill advised concept, as we have no agents or inspectors to ever significantly process that many multiple sales reports, it produces minimal information in relation to cost and wasted time, we could be actually physically intercepting firearms.

From:
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:36 AM
Subject: Rifle Multiple Sale Reporting Program Celebration

Please join us on Wednesday, August 31, at 9:30 a.m., in Conference Room B to celebrate the successful completion of the rifle multiple sale reporting program. Collaboration among many directorates made this program possible, and ______ and I want to recognize and thank all the employees who contributed to our success.

This celebration will be held in connection with our EPS supervisors meeting to be held in the same room beginning at 10am. Please forward this invitation to all the remaining EPS supervisors in Martinsburg. I initially tried to list all their names, but I know I will leave some of the section supervisors out, and our celebration would not be complete without them. ______ and I look forward to seeing you all in Martinsburg.

[Zorro]

Sounds a little like the early 80's all over again but it is doubtful that the NRA can rescue us this time.

I believe the gun lobby has come to its senses and may well be ready to roll the dice elsewhere. Despite any initial growing pains, having honest brokers would be an enourmous improvement. With honesty, everything is possible. Without it, nothing is possible. Honest but clueless leaders can and sometimes do improve. Corrupt leaders don't want to improve.

On the enforcement side, a good LEO is a good LEO regardless of where he/she hangs their hat. Character and work ethic do not come from government issued letters. The laws and the clientele won't be leaving.

Just don't put the old pony down until after the indictments.

[Iceman]

This call came in today from and EXTREMELY reliable source. If true, its now or never, If Congress cant stop DOJ, this would ne nothing more than sweeping the dirt under the rug. We are the folk who invite heavily armed criminals to our Partys. Who else is going to do that? More importantly, where does the 40 yrs of experience go? If Congress cant force these broken leaders to resign, fire them or indict them. Nobody can or will do what we do. Stay focused and work with DOJ OIG to expose the apthy permiating ATF and DOJ. The American people will lose a dedicated focused and specific aggresive Fedral enforcement and the people responsible for the failure will be hidin in obscurity.

A long time ATF (retired) source called me this afternoon. He has always had good info in the past and said that this has been verified by 3 other sources. There is a white paper in DOJ effectively abolishing ATFE. The explosive laws would be given to FBI and the gun laws to DEA. In addition, ATFE has to cut 450+ positions next year. It does not appear that retirements and early outs could reach that number so RIFS may be used. All contract positions by ATF will be terminated. Further, there will be no ATF training of any kind at Glynco for at least 3 years.
Sounds a little like the early 80's all over again but it is doubtful that the NRA can rescue us this time. He did not at this time have anything about where the agents and staff left standing would end up.

[Iceman]

Larry Ford. Whoever passed on the DV information to the Webmaster as to jurisdiction and time period please recontact webmaster with specific information.

[Iceman]

Check out the ATF website, they posted the proposed or OPM perameters. Basically, something like, eligible now but still 2 or more years to mandatory.

From what I hear, early out offers are forthcoming, possibly in the next couple of weeks. But from what I've been told, you have to fit into a certain category, to be granted an early out incentive. If anyone has any insider info, as to what the specific criteria will be, I would greatly appreciate the information. If you have the info, and would rather not post, would you mind personal messaging me?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

The following was apparently passed on at the SAC Conference. Some of you may of heard this but I hadn't;


There will be a new enforcement Division created – Alcohol, Tobacco & Arson Division....HUH?

There is supposedly some new kind of Notification System in place which occurred for the first time on Friday in which the FBI will notify ATF of any significant activity. WHAT IS WRONG WITH PICKING UP THE PHONE THE WAY WE HAVE FOR DECADES?


The SAC Conference held every year in conjunction with the IACP conference has been cancelled due to budget.WELL THATS ONE IN A ROW

Acting Director Melson covered the Fast & Furious case UNTIL EVERYONE IN THE ROOM WAS SICK TO THEIR STOMACH..
According to Acting Director Melson, Phoenix Field Division was apparently not forthcoming with the facts to Senior Management Staff.SOUNDS LIKE AN EXCUSE FOR BEING ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL. The Tampa case, Castaway, essentially walked guns, too, just not to the scale or reckless nature that Phoenix carried out.It was defended as inexperienced case agent and supervisor.

HQS considering a policy whereby Headquarters Approval would have to be sought & authorized in order to allow guns to move from FFL to Straw Purchaser. YA THINK? WE NEED TO HAVE A POLICY FOR THIS?

The SACs and Acting SACs in attendance made it known that the Phoenix Management Team should lose their jobs or be demoted (or some other strong disciplinary action) and the Acting Director (Ken Melson) and Acting Deputy (Billy Hoover) and any body else with knowledge of the F&F case, should resign.THAT INCLUDES CHAIT, MARTIN, MCMAHON,GILLETTE, VOTH ET AL. WHY DIDNT THEY SPEAK UP SOONER?
The Acting Director made it clear that ATF would get no one any better in return; that essentially the DOJ is run by Politico’s and they would never let an insider become Director and would only send unconnected (read politically unconnected) lawyers over and ATF would be no better off.

Budget – must cut $110 million – hoping to come from attrition & buy outs – if not furloughs are being planned for on a contingency basis; DEA & USMS are in the same boat; FBI is hiring.
IF THIS SICKENS YOU, CALL OR WRITE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, SENATOR GRASSLEY AND CHAIRMAN ISSA. AS WE STATED YEARS AGO, THEY ARE TANKING THIS FINE BUREAU.

[Doctor]

"Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them".

Catch-22, Chapter 9: Major Major Major Major.

[ProConfesso]

The Director is reported to have said that discipline, if any (ha, ha) for Newell, McMahon et al will be decided upon the DOJ IG report/investigation. Fair enough. But instead of being neutralized in a windowless room counting paperclips or answering phones, as they would some mere "street agent" they are given positions of authority. These managers are typical and the norm. We all know it. Stop being so sanguine about the Agency's future. Their is none. Its been on the decline for 10 years or more.
ILL WEEDS GROW APACE and its pretty weedy in HQ

[Doc Holiday]

Director Melson, et al. are ON RECORD stating that we must lose 400 Agents by the end of the year or furloughs and or RIFS will have to occur. For the first time in this Bureaus history, ATF is " Officially" asking for early out $$ to encourage Agents to leave. At NO time in this agency's history have we seen such a diligent attempt to TERMINATE employees for such trivial oversights as they are wholesale now. Notwithstanding the posture they are taking on the high profile whistle blowers, they are actually voting to terminate stellar agents for "failing to report" fellow agents and supervisors for trivial violations of internal policies. A recent PRB voted to terminate 5 employees in one fell swoop. It would appear that Melson and the SES club have so poorly managed our resources that the field employees must now be targeted to salvage THEIR (the bosses) SES packages.PIPs are being handed out and SACs and ASACs are being directed to "Motivate" employees to leave.
This while NOT ONE of the Senior executive staff PER DAD STEVE MARTIN reported the wholesale conspiracy to traffick in firearms into a foreign nation, refused to respond to Congress and yes perjured themselves across the board. Not one Attorney has been "encouraged to leave for their obvious complicity in these actions. Senior managers have gone unscathed for such acts as publicly disclosing UC trade secrets, giving false testimony in administrative hearings against Agents and inspectors. Senior managers have affairs with subordinates, lie to the OIG, are arrested for heinous conduct in hotel rooms and sit comfortably drawing SES pay and benefits. Our SACs are not supervising any more people than ten years ago, have no larger case loads yet receive the ever so costly SES training and paid transfers at retirement that we shouldn't and cant afford.
Eric Holder, you are on notice..........this is your problem and it AINT GOIN AWAY. How dare you allow the Glory whole supervisor to be transferred and maintain his rank and pay, along with George Gillette, Bill Newell, Bill McMahon, Billy Hoover, Mark Chait, RAC Voth and the other architects of a program so devastating it cost a Border Patrol Agent his life, sit comfortably drawing pay and benefits reserved for the best of the best. They have committed PERJURY.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

The corrupt and self-serving leadership and Chief counsel attorneys who would suggest that it is those "disloyal" "disgruntled" Agents fault for the demise of our great Bureau should take inventory of how many corrupt leaders you have protected, how much blame you have shifted and how much responsiblity you have passeed on. We are not disloyal to this agency, we are disloyal to you. Read the OATH of office, Mr. Melson and Hoover. We never pleadged our allegiance to you, only to the people of America and the constitution of the United States. And to that, WE REMAIN ETERNALLY COMMITTED.

In our troubled organization we have many leaders (maybe even a majority) who are not blaming our problems on poor leadership or mismanagemnent, but on the disloyalty of a "few" outspoken employees. Executive mentality seems to dictate that if our wayward dissidents had just kept their mouths shut everything would be fine. Perhaps our senior leadership team is so invested in the idea of their successful careers (especially with the average of 20 years of service, the loss of their youths, six or seven transfers, two tours in HQ, kids transferring high schools, disenchanted spouses, etc), that they just cannot accept the reality of their failures. Apparently we have no bad leaders...only bad followers. Disloyalty must be our cancer. It is easy to blame the whistleblowers.

[Cool Hand]

In our troubled organization we have many leaders (maybe even a majority) who are not blaming our problems on poor leadership or mismanagemnent, but on the disloyalty of a "few" outspoken employees. Executive mentality seems to dictate that if our wayward dissidents had just kept their mouths shut everything would be fine. Perhaps our senior leadership team is so invested in the idea of their successful careers (especially with the average of 20 years of service, the loss of their youths, six or seven transfers, two tours in HQ, kids transferring high schools, disenchanted spouses, etc), that they just cannot accept the reality of their failures. Apparently we have no bad leaders...only bad followers. Disloyalty must be our cancer. It is easy to blame the whistleblowers.

[Thor God of Thunder]

The story is that there is a Emergency Management Supervisor (male) that was caught in the ATF HQ garage with an intern (another male). The supervisor is on you know it, paid leave and was told to stay away from the intern.

It is rumored that later on the police caught them at a public park and when asked what were they doing with their pants down, one of them said wrestling. What kind of BS is that?

I hope they fire this guy soon or will they promote him?

[ProConfesso]

The logrolling never stops. You mean the plaza boss wasn't put in charge of the phone bank and his underling in the mailroom? The boss fails to read a T-III application before putting his signature on the biggest case in the Agency. When information is received by the DAD he merely "passes it up the chain of command." Guns are allowed into action and that is a mere "mistake." woops...Give it up. ATF plays a mean fiddle. Thank goodness the cops on the beat get the guns off the streets of the inner cities.
Hey dummies - you should have stopped, denied, interrogated & arrested every straw purchaser. If their are a hundred or a thousand. As soon as you knew.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Once again the Department and ATF thumb their nose at the OIG and Congress. Lets place DAD McMahon over the very directorate that will be intimately involved in investigating the entire F and F and gross mismanagement issues in the future months. Hell why not just put Newell in IA as well. That's the only way Newell and Mcmahon don't get indicted or terminated. Maybe they can impede the congressional and OIG investigation long enough to allow Newell, Gillette,Melson, Hoover, Chait and McMahon to retire. Do they really believe the department or OIG or more specifically CONGRESS are just going to ignore this practice? Potter has left destruction everywhere hes been and bought Cadillacs on tax payer money and he's deemed fit to be a law enforcement DAD? What happened to his personal issues that prevented him from taking the bean counter job? That was mere months ago. What happened to the mobility agreement Mr. Melson? The boss in N.O. who brought so much discredit to the Bureau is promoted to HQ but others are terminated? Have you lost your collective minds?

[ATFTRUTHTELLER]

ATFTRUTHTELLER,

SA Dodson is an honorable man in my book. He displayed a lot of courage over the past few months.

Did you read my whole post??????

[GoodWorker]

ATFTRUTHTELLER,

SA Dodson is an honorable man in my book. He displayed a lot of courage over the past few months.

[pinacolada]

Houston DIO position has been tentatively offered to Dallas A/S Tanarra James. No start date known. Should be interesting.

Well I see this proved to come true. According to the Daily Broadcast on Thursday or Friday last week, it was announced that Tanara James was indeed selected as the Houston DIO. ATF proves everyday that it can't change. That's why we're in the shape we are in. Mrs. James, formerly Mrs. Carter, has only been an area supervisor for around 2-3 years and was only an IOI for a few years before that. WOW-all that experience. That's what is wrong with this agency (among many other things)-the promotion system. I am sure that there were far more senior applicants. What happened to the days where it took experience in order to move up? WOW is all I can say.

Rumor is Mona Hendrix, an area supervisor in the New Orleans Field Division, is gearing up to make a run for the newly vacated DIO position there. A look back through the selection announcements reveals she has only been an area supervisor for less than 2 years. WOW-she has all the qualifications!She'll probably get it based on ATF's pattern of selection.

[ATFTRUTHTELLER]

Latest word is FBI and DEA have been told to make plans for folding ATF into their agencies. GET READY NRA! You wanted it and it looks like it is finally happening. Arson and Explosives will go to FBI. Gun enforcement and Industry Ops will go to DEA. At this point, it might be the best thing. Currently, ATF will have to lay off 400 employees if they go to 2008 budget constraints. No money for operations, just survival. I know DEA and FBI have their own problems, but at least they have more room to hide the idiots. ATF promotes theirs. Of course, we are much better at eating our own. This might be the end of ATF. As a gun owner and a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment, I worry about the gun laws if the authority goes to the FBI. DEA might be a better fit. ATF gets pushed around by the NRA. They keep saying we have been without a director for 6 years, but it was Truscott before that, so... it has been a lot time since ATF had a truly strong director or accountability. I fear the only thing that will happen if ATF stays intact is the top people will be removed and their minions will take their place. Same type of people with different faces. No real changes. We also heard that Virginia O'Brien really did let guns go to Honduras. I don't know if that means they watched suspected straw purchasers buy guns and didn't confront them or they actually had UCs or CIs hand gun to traffickers. Of course, HQ is saying that Dodson while undercover actually handed guns purchased with agent cashier funds to firearms traffickers in another case prior to F&F. That is why he was in trouble in the first place and he is only trying to deflect attention away from his own misdeeds. It will be nice if he testifies again and he can set the record straight and show how the 5th floor tries to slander people. What is next, Dobyns shot Kennedy and Vince faked the moon landings.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Seriously? First question is, DID ATF authorize these guys to release UC trade secrets and endanger future undercover operations? Larry Ford was the PGA Asst. Director, HE KNOWS better. After Torres' release of the polygraph story "which technique can never safely be used again, you would think Hoover, Melson or McMahon would have removed him from a leadership position immediately, THEY DID NOT. Secondly, to infer that the story he tells is real time and he has done anything close to undercover work in the last 15 years is false, misleading and grandstanding in further attempts to garner some Hollywood notoriety. He was at best a MARGINAL operator 20 years ago. He was regarded as reckless and self promoting. How can I say this? I WAS IN THE SFFD when he was running wild. He was highly regarded as a showboat, non team player, and dangerous. He obviously continues his ways. For the L.A. Times, or any other media outlet, (EVEN THOSE HE HAS BEEN RECENTLY ACCUSED OF STRONG ARMING FOR BOOK DEALS), when JT did UC work, IPODS weren't invented. Maybe a Walkman. Then he marrys up with Steve Martin for the purpose of this story. This is mind boggling as they profess to hate each other. Steve Martin (as usual) blames UC work for his failed marriage, and being alone and thus starts the saga of not taking responsibility. Ive worked undercover work for the better part of 30 years,yes 30 years. Ive never been alone or lonely. My peers have always been there right beside me, in constant contact making sure I was OK. What does that tell you Steve?

Steve, I was married and divorced, and while working three times the amount of undercover you have ever done. Guess what,it was my inability to manage my marriage and job, NOT UNDERCOVER that ends marriages. Mr. Martins history of backstabbing and reversing loyalties is historical, and yes started with his first significant undercover operation. He betrayed every Agent he was assigned to work with, self glorified his contributions and leaves out the near career ending allegations that surfaced about his conduct throughout the case. His peers despise him to this day. After needing to come out of the field to avoid friendly fire from his fellow UCs, he tanked the Miami SRT so badly that SACs from field divisions his team serviced refused to use his team. After they abolished his team, he continued to betray and use his power to hurt any Agent who may have stolen his thunder, enter ATF Hero Roger Guthrie.

For him to participate in this article is self serving and once again betrays the very undercover agents he professes to care about. Larry Ford, well there is absolutely NO reason for him to even pretend. Just shut up Larry. You cannot repeatedly sign letters you know are false to Congress and then represent this agency with any credibility. Ford and Thommason are merely using their positions in ATF to Garner status for some future entertainment plan they are pursuing. Martin, you do NOT lead anything to do with undercover programs. You use you connections to buy your way into our world. No more toys, no more training, and our top operators wouldn't even talk to you. Way to put out our programs to the public.

If these managers are not immediately removed for Gross mismanagement and significant release of sensitive information, Field Agents should be outraged.


http://www.latimesma...affic-stop.html

[Doc Holiday]

Valkyrie, on 06 July 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

Covert One,

Apparently in the whole LA division there are no UC agents so they have to resort to a SES SAC doing deals. The brothers and sisters on the west coast have a long memory when it comes to JT so maybe he should take a trip down memory lane.

When JT was a street agent in Vegas he worked a particular UC deal involving DEA and a bus. It seems that when it came time for federal court, the judge did not like what JT had to say and told him that he did not believe his reports were truthful. For most agents that would hang you with a Henthorn or Giglio issue, but not JT.

When you were ASAC in LA your nickname was “The Morale Vampire” wasn’t it? You did everything you could to shut down the Mongols case and screw over a great GS named Tom Brandon, case agent John Ciccone, and a real UC named Billy Queen but you were right there to claim the credit when the case worked out. You spend most of your time trying to scam things, like getting free directors chairs with your name on them, and strong arming the company that did cable TV for the division so they would install it for free in your house. Remember JT? How many IA red covers and OIG investigations got opened on you that your buddies in HQ were able to fade?

As SAC in LA, you pulled a page from your days in SF and moved the whole division office so you would not have to drive as far from your house up in the Valencia area. How much extra did the taxpayers fork out for the frosted glass doors to your office and your private bathroom? If you were less concerned about loaning out the NRT truck to movie folks to win favor with the Hollywood types, maybe you would have dealt with Gillette instead of letting him run amuck. Sorry you didn’t get that cushy studio security job last year; we all hoped you’d get it so you would leave. Maybe you didn't hand out enough of your secret stash of challenge coins you were keeping, or maybe they noticed you spelled Los Angeles wrong?

I guess JT can take comfort in the fact that as one of the few agents in the Hispanic Agents Association who can’t really speak Spanish, he can still at least make a difference by compromising sensitive UC techniques in the sham story he cooked up with Scot Thomasson, Larry Ford and Steve Martin. As you might say “good job, bud”



As an ATF who spent many years under Torre's reign of terror I can say that everything Valkyrie wrote is true. JT hates agents and loves Hollywood. He does nothing but cater to his personal interests of being in the movies. He has to have pictures of Melson naked to have survived all the bs he is involved in.

The most distasteful part of the story is Steve Martin joining up with Torres Ford and Thomasson to put this story out. I guess we all know who Martin is in bed with.



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#2 Epic Failure

Had to comment here. JT has been nothing but a lying rat his entire career. Thats all.


Valkyrie, on 06 July 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

Covert One,

Apparently in the whole LA division there are no UC agents so they have to resort to a SES SAC doing deals. The brothers and sisters on the west coast have a long memory when it comes to JT so maybe he should take a trip down memory lane.

When JT was a street agent in Vegas he worked a particular UC deal involving DEA and a bus. It seems that when it came time for federal court, the judge did not like what JT had to say and told him that he did not believe his reports were truthful. For most agents that would hang you with a Henthorn or Giglio issue, but not JT.

When you were ASAC in LA your nickname was “The Morale Vampire” wasn’t it? You did everything you could to shut down the Mongols case and screw over a great GS named Tom Brandon, case agent John Ciccone, and a real UC named Billy Queen but you were right there to claim the credit when the case worked out. You spend most of your time trying to scam things, like getting free directors chairs with your name on them, and strong arming the company that did cable TV for the division so they would install it for free in your house. Remember JT? How many IA red covers and OIG investigations got opened on you that your buddies in HQ were able to fade?

As SAC in LA, you pulled a page from your days in SF and moved the whole division office so you would not have to drive as far from your house up in the Valencia area. How much extra did the taxpayers fork out for the frosted glass doors to your office and your private bathroom? If you were less concerned about loaning out the NRT truck to movie folks to win favor with the Hollywood types, maybe you would have dealt with Gillette instead of letting him run amuck. Sorry you didn’t get that cushy studio security job last year; we all hoped you’d get it so you would leave. Maybe you didn't hand out enough of your secret stash of challenge coins you were keeping, or maybe they noticed you spelled Los Angeles wrong?

I guess JT can take comfort in the fact that as one of the few agents in the Hispanic Agents Association who can’t really speak Spanish, he can still at least make a difference by compromising sensitive UC techniques in the sham story he cooked up with Scot Thomasson, Larry Ford and Steve Martin. As you might say “good job, bud”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#3 The Shadow

Valkyrie, on 06 July 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

Covert One,

Apparently in the whole LA division there are no UC agents so they have to resort to a SES SAC doing deals. The brothers and sisters on the west coast have a long memory when it comes to JT so maybe he should take a trip down memory lane.

When JT was a street agent in Vegas he worked a particular UC deal involving DEA and a bus. It seems that when it came time for federal court, the judge did not like what JT had to say and told him that he did not believe his reports were truthful. For most agents that would hang you with a Henthorn or Giglio issue, but not JT.

When you were ASAC in LA your nickname was “The Morale Vampire” wasn’t it? You did everything you could to shut down the Mongols case and screw over a great GS named Tom Brandon, case agent John Ciccone, and a real UC named Billy Queen but you were right there to claim the credit when the case worked out. You spend most of your time trying to scam things, like getting free directors chairs with your name on them, and strong arming the company that did cable TV for the division so they would install it for free in your house. Remember JT? How many IA red covers and OIG investigations got opened on you that your buddies in HQ were able to fade?

As SAC in LA, you pulled a page from your days in SF and moved the whole division office so you would not have to drive as far from your house up in the Valencia area. How much extra did the taxpayers fork out for the frosted glass doors to your office and your private bathroom? If you were less concerned about loaning out the NRT truck to movie folks to win favor with the Hollywood types, maybe you would have dealt with Gillette instead of letting him run amuck. Sorry you didn’t get that cushy studio security job last year; we all hoped you’d get it so you would leave. Maybe you didn't hand out enough of your secret stash of challenge coins you were keeping, or maybe they noticed you spelled Los Angeles wrong?

I guess JT can take comfort in the fact that as one of the few agents in the Hispanic Agents Association who can’t really speak Spanish, he can still at least make a difference by compromising sensitive UC techniques in the sham story he cooked up with Scot Thomasson, Larry Ford and Steve Martin. As you might say “good job, bud”



I enjoyed reading the comic book story about Torres and appreciate the real deal information posted by Valkyrie. When the day arrives that a SAC does an undercover deal there are several things guaranteed. There will be several real UC's standing right next to him, there will be several SRT's parked right next to him, and Hell will freeze over. I know of a real deal where a real SAC would not allow any covert recording devices to be used to gather evidence against a violent gang because the CI might tell someone what type of covert recording device ATF was using. Every day, Drug Unit's around the USA use better covert equipment than ATF to do street level buys with CI's. There are websites the general public can access as well as the things Hollywood throws out there that the bad guys think are really used to transmit and record during deals, and ATF SAC’s giving up real operational techniques and devices so they can be in the news.

A current SAC caused a CI to work for months in a dangerous environment in a critical investigation without any covert devices, while agents tried to monitor and cover him. This created a huge problem for the case agents trying to document what was said and done during the deals and later lead to embarrassment for the USAO and ATF when defendants were debriefed and the CI came clean. Nice to know that a SAC can get an IPod transmitter but street agents couldn’t get two tin cans and a string.

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#4 ONCE PROUD
Covert One. I just read the L.A. Times article, and I'm pissed at you! After reading the article, I threw up on my IPad, and now it's ruined!

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#5 Valkyrie


CovertOne, on 06 July 2011 - 06:55 PM, said:

My dilemma here was not whether to post this or not but under what topic. Fast and Furious or here.

In this article (linked below) Los Angeles SAC John Torres brags on his undercover expertise and is backed up by Larry Ford, Scott Thomasson and Steve Martin.

Torres tells a story of his undercover work to catch gun traffickers, Ford speaks on his expertise as an undercover operator, Thomasson wieghs in on his observations regarding the personal damages of long term undercover work and Martin is still talking about a case he worked over 20 years ago.

All four are an insult to the men and women out doing the job. Torres did nothing but stand in the way of every uc case in Los Angeles. All anyone has to do to confirm that is ask any LA Agent who ever strapped on a wire. Ford portrays himself to be some s**t hot undercover agent but I've never heard one single person in the UC community ever mention his name. Thomasson will say anything to get his name in the paper so he doesn't count. Martin has the ponytail he had to cut off when he went into management thumbtacked to his wall in headquarters.

They discuss an current technique of disguising a bodywire like an Ipod. They talk about bust signals and how we cue rescue responses.

And they are suing Jay Dobyns? You simply can not make this stuff up.

http://www.latimesma...affic-stop.html

[RoughRider]

It is rumored that the Big Easy FD is at it again. Apparently, some inappropriate emails between a subordinate female employee and a certain regulatory manager have surfaced (by accident). Evidently, some people print out their emails and when that is done to a printer that others have access to, you run the risk of others seeing them. Supposedly the emails and other related information has been sent to the proper authority. I can only hope that a true investigation takes place. If this didn't involve a manager, you can bet IA would dig as deep as they could. But since this involves a manager, I imagine that it will be whitewashed. The only hope is that Issa, Grassley, and the rest of Congress strip the whitewash of this and many other things and deal with these out of control managers.

Congress and media-fast and furious is only something that has gained attention and momentum because of the physical lives it has destroyed. I urge you to did deeper and realize that retaliation and disregard for laws and regulation is the standard for ATF management at all levels not just at Headquarters. I am sure there are exceptions, but if they don't stand up for what is right, then they are just like the rest. HELP us.

I find it totally unbelievable that the New Orleans DIO got away with using a government car for personal use to the tune of several thousand dollars. How can anyone get away with this? I am still holding out hope that someone will take on the DIO and make this right with the taxpayer, who ultimatly paid the bill for this abuse. I suspect frogger knows what is common knowlege, that the DIO must have his ego stroked and will do anything to get the praise of subordinate women. This includes discriminating against other employess to advance those who play his games. Durham is obviously not going to take this one on and is jeopardizing his own career in the process. All Durham would need to say is this is going to STOP and STOP NOW. So simple!!! There must be something in the drinking water in New Oleans. Vanderwerf just gets down there and cant resist engaging in bizzare behavior at the Residence Inn. Thankfully, ATF came to his rescue and moved him to HQ to continue the tradition. Hopefully, Congress will take a look at all this and say enough is enough! The DIO cannot be allowed to continue his present course.

[avatar]

Correct. What is needed is to appoint a Special Prosecutor.

[ISpy]

Hopefully the "proper authority" isn't IA, Counsel, Ombudsman, or anyone on the 5th floor because we all know it will go nowhere then.

[frogger]

It is rumored that the Big Easy FD is at it again. Apparently, some inappropriate emails between a subordinate female employee and a certain regulatory manager have surfaced (by accident). Evidently, some people print out their emails and when that is done to a printer that others have access to, you run the risk of others seeing them. Supposedly the emails and other related information has been sent to the proper authority. I can only hope that a true investigation takes place. If this didn't involve a manager, you can bet IA would dig as deep as they could. But since this involves a manager, I imagine that it will be whitewashed. The only hope is that Issa, Grassley, and the rest of Congress strip the whitewash of this and many other things and deal with these out of control managers.

Congress and media-fast and furious is only something that has gained attention and momentum because of the physical lives it has destroyed. I urge you to did deeper and realize that retaliation and disregard for laws and regulation is the standard for ATF management at all levels not just at Headquarters. I am sure there are exceptions, but if they don't stand up for what is right, then they are just like the rest. HELP us.

[MidwestCR]

I'm not an agent or employee of ATF, just a small private citizen who has a small gun collection. But the only result of getting Andrew Traver in as Director will be increased hostility between legal gun owners and the ATF. The man has a reputation and background for gun control, and has no problem lying if it scares civilians into following his agenda. Just watch this wonderful interview he did showing how dangerous those fully automatic AK47's are that the gangbangers in Chicago have been buying at gun stores. Which, obviously, is a total lie. http://thetruthabout...erview-surface/ ATF as a whole hasn't taken a big hit from Fast & Furious, most of the anger has been directed at ATF management and DOJ. Which is where it belongs. But make no mistake about it, put a blatant liar and gun control person in as Director and the entire agency will be about as trustworthy to the normal firearm owner as the Brady group or the New Orleans PD. Surely there are plenty of skilled professionals inside and outside the agency that will concentrate on enforcing our laws and catching the criminals, and not pushing an agenda or legislating by regulation? Or maybe those types of people just have no chance of being recognized or nominated with the current political appointees?

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Everyone needs to weigh in and ALL opinions are welcomed. That is unlike our current leadership. I have a bit of an issue with "Traver Learning" the job. He has sat silent as the Presidential nominee. This is NOT an entry grade position. What has he done beyond service Mr. Obama and the Chicago machine? I agree that we have talent inside the Bureau. Right now, we need an outsider with a COP background to surgically remove the cancer. Make an insider Deputy Director, allow him/her to watch serious leadership and groom them to take the reigns. Now is NOT the time for one of the old gaurd to manipulate our agency on its last breath. No more Lawyers, and No more of the current regime. There are emails from Ficaretta to Traver. There is an agenda being served. Why else would Feinstein be advocating Multiple sales crap like she is with protected data? Who is gonna process 8500 multiple sales reports on long guns? We only have 2500 Agents. We already have the cooperation of the FFL's, and our answer is disregard, LET THE GUNS WALK.

[Patriot]

"if I only knew then what I know now" We are all familiar with that quote and I would like to suggest that Traver or another appointee will benefit from everything that has occurred to bring them to their new position. I do not know Traver, but I am willing to concede that he is a reasonably bright guy and capable of learning, not only from the postings here, but from the congressional hearings, the volumes of public documents and his current peers. He may have flaws, who doesn't, but that doesn't mean he is incapable of learning. I really believe that whoever is next should get the benefit of the doubt and the support of the field until such time as that person fails to correct the wrongs. It will be an extremely difficult task taking the reins of ATF with all that has happened, but quick decisive changes can get us back on track. Removal from positions of leadership of those responsible for our problems, will go a long way to send the message that there are consequences for bad decision making. Everyone one of those senior leaders can park themselves in a cube and make some contribution to this agency until such time as they are eligible to retire or find other employment. I know a lot of supervisors who could find something for them to do. Someone has suggested that we need an outsider as the next Director, I disagree and point out that we have had outsiders since Waco and have not faired well as an organization, in fact those people are partially responsible for getting us to this point. It is time for an insider with the strength to cut ties with the club and put the right people in place and hold them accountable. There are first line supervisors and ASACS with talent and vision, I see no problem with drafting them out of order and bypassing the usual people. I have to believe that Traver will never have to say "if I only knew then what I know now"

[Concernedsup]

Traver?

Yeah, right. Out of the frying pan and into the fire?

If the current administration makes Traver the acting Director, it will be the SES good old boy system as usual. There will be minor shuffling of leadership but same people who stood by and did nothing in new positions. Melson leaving and Traver coming in changes nothing. Here's an example for you, a bit crude but to the point: take 6 chairs and put a piece of crap on each one. Now move crap 1 to chair 6 and crap 6 to chair 1. What do you have? 6 pieces of crap on 6 chairs. If our higher ups have been inefficient/incompetent in their current jobs what makes them efficient/competent with a change of responsibility/job position? We need someone with vision/courage, someone with no ties to current leaders to take charge and change things, hold people of all ranks responsible fairly. Oh and by the way, let 1811's run 1811 related issues, enough with the lawyers running this agency. PLEASE, let's get some real change not some actor who is buddies with the same pieces of crap that have run this agency to the ground.

[Ike]

Traver? Yeah, right. Out of the frying pan and into the fire?

[Patriot]

Today's Wall Street Journal reports that Melson is soon to be gone, possibly as early as next week. Long overdue. Let's get behind his replacement and give him/her the support necessary to fix ATF. Let hope this is only the beginning of changes in ATF.

[CaptainWho]

Houston DIO position has been tentatively offered to Dallas A/S Tanarra James. No start date known. Should be interesting.

[Zorro]

2. Early outs - any updates?

2. The word I got is that there is no update. Just possibilities being floated at the moment in the event the country actually begins to right the listing financial ship. Could be that every agency will have to make across the board staffing reductions but nothing is etched in stone. I noticed that the survey I responded to asked about just leaving - no early retirement aspect, just take a buyout and go.

[Winston Smith]

A salute to those who served in the Armed Forces! 1. I was unaware that ATF is allowed to be different from any agencies with respect to hiring of Vets. Are you sure about that? If this is true, why is ATF allowed to take a radically different approach? For that matter, shouldn't ATF use the same approach to Ops Plans and other matters as the FBI and DEA? 2. Early outs - any updates? 3. DOC - You reference an OIG "allegation" about NIBIN. Please explain what you know and how you found out about "gross mishandling and misappropriation of NIBIN funds" so everyone has a better understanding. Those are some serious allegations if what you say is true. I haven't heard anything about what you allege. However, I am aware that NIBIN is a potentially great tool that is underused and unappreciated.

[apostate]

Many thanks to all of those who are serving now and in the past in the military. I lost 2 military buddies in Afghanistan this year. Easy to forget that there are 3 wars going on now. And 7 more Americans just lost their lives over the weekend. Real shame that ATF has banned military veterans from the hiring process. Will not even give Vet preference points as required by law. FBI and ICE, DEA granting 1811 age waivers for Vets to get experienced and talented candidates. ATF could really use honorable, brave, selfless and very experienced soldiers now in their agency. Might even help save the disgraced ATF. I doubt it.