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#901 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:10 AM

Another survey, really? No one I have talked with will complete it. When I asked why, the answers are the same, "not anonymous" or "done this before, it changes nothing". Do they really need a survey? A few minutes reading this site might give them a clue as to how management is perceived. Several years ago ATF hired Gallop to conduct a survey and I think everyone participated because they felt reasonably safe doing so. The plan was to review the results and then do it again in a year. Interestingly, the follow up was cancelled because management did not like the results of the intial survey. Jones and Brandon have some hard decisions ahead if there is to be meaningful change. They need to stop thinking and using old models that have failed. Time to get creative. Solicit ideas from law enforcement professionals, major city chiefs, retirees, academics or even special interest groups like the NRA. The idea of not airing our dirty laundry in public is old thinking and the reality is that it is out there and has been for some time. Stop hiding behind the attorneys, they are not helping you at all. Remember there is nothing wrong with just doing the right thing, admitting that mistakes have been made and vow not to repeat them.


Good points Patriot, and don’t forget the 2006 OIG report citing the disparity in treatment regarding disciplinary action between the managers and the agents. Things have only gotten worse since then. I would also like to address your point about the need to stop the “old thinking”. One of the panel recommendations was to have the field evaluate the managers. This has been batted around since the 70s. It won’t work for exactly the reason you just mentioned, the field has been slammed to many times and no longer trusts that anything will be truly anonymous. Madea also agrees that keeping the dirty laundry secret is “old thinking” that needs to be thrown out. Complete transparency and open dialog are crucial, anything less will fail. Yeahhhhhhh Patriot!!!!!

#902 Patriot

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:24 AM

Another survey, really? No one I have talked with will complete it. When I asked why, the answers are the same, "not anonymous" or "done this before, it changes nothing". Do they really need a survey? A few minutes reading this site might give them a clue as to how management is perceived. Several years ago ATF hired Gallop to conduct a survey and I think everyone participated because they felt reasonably safe doing so. The plan was to review the results and then do it again in a year. Interestingly, the follow up was cancelled because management did not like the results of the intial survey. Jones and Brandon have some hard decisions ahead if there is to be meaningful change. They need to stop thinking and using old models that have failed. Time to get creative. Solicit ideas from law enforcement professionals, major city chiefs, retirees, academics or even special interest groups like the NRA. The idea of not airing our dirty laundry in public is old thinking and the reality is that it is out there and has been for some time. Stop hiding behind the attorneys, they are not helping you at all. Remember there is nothing wrong with just doing the right thing, admitting that mistakes have been made and vow not to repeat them.

#903 Snake bite

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:02 PM

FROM TOP 20 TO 107. I will withold the obvious conclusions. Look closely at comparitives at bottom of page, (see attached PDF complete survey results). Then determine whether or not the litany of complaints brought to the attention of Msrs. Sullivan, Domenech, Carter, Hoover, Chait, McMahon over the last 5 yrs hold merit.


Yesterday afternoon I sat down and answered each and every question on the ATF Leadership survey. I intentionally went through the survey the first time and answered each question as straight forward and directly as I could. Before I started the survey I decided that I would “cool off” before I submit the survey just so I would be sure I was giving my honest opinion of the people appointed to lead ATF. After a few minutes I went back through the survey and tried to objectively look at my answers and make sure that everything I wrote was 100% true. Unfortunately, every initial response I had hit the nail on the head. I hope that my blunt responses cause some sort of change within the leadership of ATF, but then again, I’ve been hoping for some sort of positive change for the past three or four acting Director’s ATF has had over the majority of the past decade

What was disturbing to me was that nearly all of my co workers are either not going to respond to the survey request or not be completely forthright on the survey because they all believe the promise of remaining anonymous is like all of the other promises we hear from HQ, our RAC's, ASAC's and SAC's , not true. I compared the need to honestly complete the survey to the right to vote, but nearly every agent I’ve spoken with are fearful of retaliation for saying what should be said. I understand this concern; retaliation is very real within ATF. Please encourage all ATF employees to be honest and remember that these spineless jellyfish SAC’s and ASAC’s we have may huff and puff, but if we all remain strong and stand our ground hopefully we can keep them from blowing our house down!

SNAKE BITE - OUT
SNAKE BITE OUT -

#904 Doc Holiday

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 03:42 PM

Suggestion to posters on CUATF, JUST a suggestion.
The issues and potential solutions identified during the FAAP (Field Agent Advisory Program)have been posted to ATF employees. These are very sensitive, and critical to the survival of this Agency. We hope that all will show restraint in posting the particulars as the information is embarrassing and our potential enemy's inside the industry and out, ie. FBI will undoubtedly use the information against us. We should speak in general terms but keep the specifics in house until we know if its just smoke and mirrors. Thus far, the FAAP hit the nail(s) on the head. And remember, these are guys and gals HQ approved. THEY DID A GREAT JOB

#905 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:11 PM

FROM TOP 20 TO 107. I will withold the obvious conclusions. Look closely at comparitives at bottom of page, (see attached PDF complete survey results). Then determine whether or not the litany of complaints brought to the attention of Msrs. Sullivan, Domenech, Carter, Hoover, Chait, McMahon over the last 5 yrs hold merit.

Is it possible, that Jay Dobyns and myself are NOT just disgruntled malcontents with an axe to grind? Not outlaws or junkyard dogs? Is it possible that Delgado, Berger, Casa, Jaquez,Forcelli, Arraguetta and Canino arent just angry trouble makers? Apoligy accepted Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon. READ THE ATTACHED SURVEY. WE DIDNT COMMISSION IT NOR DID WE CONTROL THE RESULTS. Suggestion: Perhaps you rescind the current survey, get a couple months and maybe a few successes under your belt, and consider if THEN, you may get some good will from the field. As it sits right here today, we have hit ROCK bottom on the issue of this survey and the new results will probably not be all that constructive.
Feedback on ATF Senior Leadership Needed Isnt that what we have been doing through every legal mechanism for the last 5 or 6 years, Sirs? Wouldnt it have been far more prudent to listen to all of us, and NOT have to go to these extremes?
Within the next few days, the Office of Human Resources and Professional Development (HRPD) will be issuing a survey to all employees concerning ATF’s senior leadership. Late last year, ATF received the results of the 2011 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey (EVS). We wonder if we have in fact dropped below number 41 on the list of best places to work? OUR Previous LOW. A key area in which ATF fell short was leadership. Most troubling were responses to the question – “My senior leaders maintain high standards of honesty and integrity.”
The honesty and integrity of senior leadership is fundamental to the success of any organization. Given recent changes in ATF senior leadership, (What Changes) we want to reassess views on this issue and gather information on the specific behaviors which influence both positive and negative responses to this question. Responses will be anonymous, but will be shared with the ATF Executive Staff and field leadership. The Executive Staff is committed to using the feedback from this survey to determine what actions should be taken to address this critical issue.
The survey will take only 3-5 minutes to complete and responses are requested by March 30, 2012. This survey is intentionally narrow in focus and is not intended to replace the more comprehensive OPM Employee Viewpoint Survey which will be issued for 2012 in the coming weeks. Your feedback to both surveys is desired and will help shape the future direction of the Bureau.

Late last year, ATF received the results of the 2011 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey (EVS). The survey, done annually by OPM, helps us listen to our employees and focus on employee perceptions that drive job satisfaction, commitment, engagement, and ultimately contribute to the accomplishment of our mission. In particular, the survey helps us identify and expose problem areas which, while at times uncomfortable, are essential to improving our operations. A key area on last year’s survey in which ATF fell short was leadership. Most troubling were ATF’s ratings in relation to the question: “My senior leaders maintain high standards of honesty and integrity.” The honesty and integrity of senior leadership is fundamental to the success of any organization. Given recent changes in ATF senior leadership, we want to reassess employee perceptions on this issue and gather additional information on the behaviors of senior leaders which underlie responses to the Employee Viewpoint Survey question. Feedback from the survey will remain anonymous (Forgive us if we DONT believe you) and help the ATF Executive Staff as they seek to address this critical issue.

http://townhall.com/...deny_gunwalking

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#906 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:09 AM

Is it possible, that Jay Dobyns and myself are NOT just disgruntled malcontents with an axe to grind? Not outlaws or junkyard dogs? Is it possible that Delgado, Berger, Casa, Jaquez,Forcelli, Arraguetta and Canino arent just angry trouble makers? Apoligy accepted Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon. READ THE ATTACHED SURVEY. WE DIDNT COMMISSION IT NOR DID WE CONTROL THE RESULTS. Suggestion: Perhaps you rescind the current survey, get a couple months and maybe a few successes under your belt, and consider if THEN, you may get some good will from the field. As it sits right here today, we have hit ROCK bottom on the issue of this survey and the new results will probably not be all that constructive.
Feedback on ATF Senior Leadership Needed Isnt that what we have been doing through every legal mechanism for the last 5 or 6 years, Sirs? Wouldnt it have been far more prudent to listen to all of us, and NOT have to go to these extremes?
Within the next few days, the Office of Human Resources and Professional Development (HRPD) will be issuing a survey to all employees concerning ATF’s senior leadership. Late last year, ATF received the results of the 2011 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey (EVS). We wonder if we have in fact dropped below number 41 on the list of best places to work? OUR Previous LOW. A key area in which ATF fell short was leadership. Most troubling were responses to the question – “My senior leaders maintain high standards of honesty and integrity.”
The honesty and integrity of senior leadership is fundamental to the success of any organization. Given recent changes in ATF senior leadership, (What Changes) we want to reassess views on this issue and gather information on the specific behaviors which influence both positive and negative responses to this question. Responses will be anonymous, but will be shared with the ATF Executive Staff and field leadership. The Executive Staff is committed to using the feedback from this survey to determine what actions should be taken to address this critical issue.
The survey will take only 3-5 minutes to complete and responses are requested by March 30, 2012. This survey is intentionally narrow in focus and is not intended to replace the more comprehensive OPM Employee Viewpoint Survey which will be issued for 2012 in the coming weeks. Your feedback to both surveys is desired and will help shape the future direction of the Bureau.

Late last year, ATF received the results of the 2011 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey (EVS). The survey, done annually by OPM, helps us listen to our employees and focus on employee perceptions that drive job satisfaction, commitment, engagement, and ultimately contribute to the accomplishment of our mission. In particular, the survey helps us identify and expose problem areas which, while at times uncomfortable, are essential to improving our operations. A key area on last year’s survey in which ATF fell short was leadership. Most troubling were ATF’s ratings in relation to the question: “My senior leaders maintain high standards of honesty and integrity.” The honesty and integrity of senior leadership is fundamental to the success of any organization. Given recent changes in ATF senior leadership, we want to reassess employee perceptions on this issue and gather additional information on the behaviors of senior leaders which underlie responses to the Employee Viewpoint Survey question. Feedback from the survey will remain anonymous (Forgive us if we DONT believe you) and help the ATF Executive Staff as they seek to address this critical issue.

http://townhall.com/...deny_gunwalking
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#907 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:52 PM

Although I do NOT speak for CUATF, I will take this opportunity to wish all my Irish Brothers and Sisters a Happy St. Patricks day. Besides being some of the better Agents I have worked with over my ATF career, they are good damn drinkers too.

Not one word on the ATF web site referencing St Patrick's Day.


Many other ethic groups celebrated on the ATF web page daily but not the lowly Irish.


My grandfather who emigrated from Ireland told many stories of Irish discrimination.

I guess the Irish are not still not held in very high esteem in the ATF "family"


Big surprise


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#908 apostate

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:48 PM

Not one word on the ATF web site referencing St Patrick's Day.


Many other ethic groups celebrated on the ATF web page daily but not the lowly Irish.


My grandfather who emigrated from Ireland told many stories of Irish discrimination.

I guess the Irish are not still not held in very high esteem in the ATF "family"


Big surprise

#909 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:18 AM

NOT withstanding the fact that he should NOT be an SES and should not be treated with more favor for his conduct than any other Agent, he should not be railroaded because of the climate in the Bureau right now. My point is based on information suggesting that in the CURRENT events, he MAY not have been the catalyst. That is to say, there are those out there who WILL and DO make allegations against bosses to cover their own conduct or lack of productivity. If that's the case, that is NO better than a corrupt Executive management cadre and CCO railroading good hard working Agents. If he is clear of the most recent foolishness, maybe it was HQ who knee jerked the OTHER way. That doesn't justify the purging of his prior IA files or overlooking his recent past abuses, but he deserves due process just like we are all fighting for. That's ALL. Sidenote: he and other managers DO have the right and the ability to post here just like anyone else.


Seriously, we should all be concerned with one another’s due process rights. That must be why ATF had an agent from Louisville sit home for a year while they investigated a stalking charge brought by a female co-worker. You see a couple of times a month they would leave the government garage at the same time and take the same route through the downtown area. She called that stalking. Also Iceman, she had no dates or times when this happened. Did I mention the agent had filed a reverse discrimination complaint about her before she made the allegation of stalking?

How about those Phoenix agents? One who sat home for 4 years and the other for a year and 1/2? So I guess ATF was just doing a really, really, really good job at protecting their due process rights. Did I mention both of these guys filed a discrimination complaint against upper management before they were sent home? Oh, and did I forget to tell you that helpful people in their office would suggest to outside LE officers they worked with that they had been fired? Is that some more ‘due process’? Seriously, have you lost your mind?

They have cleared Crenshaw and Horace faster than you can get an order at the McDonald’s drive-thru, which leads me to suspect that these two are the new Newell/Hoover team. There must be another screwed-up operation in the works. Congress, don't believe Holder when he says it can’t happen again.

Seriously, are you insane?


#910 Guest_leaderofthetards_*

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 06:37 AM

My question is this: how could Horace have been denied due process when there wasn't even time to investigate whatever charge was made? Which leads us right back to the reason Horace has a clean file - these managers don't get investigated and then the allegations are shredded. I think it's naive at this point to assume anything other than the same game is going on this time around. And of course we have agents sitting at home for months/years over the most ridiculous of infractions. SSDD

NOT withstanding the fact that he should NOT be an SES and should not be treated with more favor for his conduct than any other Agent, he should not be railroaded because of the climate in the Bureau right now. My point is based on information suggesting that in the CURRENT events, he MAY not have been the catalyst. That is to say, there are those out there who WILL and DO make allegations against bosses to cover their own conduct or lack of productivity. If that's the case, that is NO better than a corrupt Executive management cadre and CCO railroading good hard working Agents. If he is clear of the most recent foolishness, maybe it was HQ who knee jerked the OTHER way. That doesn't justify the purging of his prior IA files or overlooking his recent past abuses, but he deserves due process just like we are all fighting for. That's ALL. Sidenote: he and other managers DO have the right and the ability to post here just like anyone else.



#911 Patriot

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 05:00 AM

Iceman, good point and I agree with you 100 percent. Once again the value of this site is proven. Many of us get so focused on a point of view that we fail to see the alternative view. Someone else will, and give balance to the dialog.

#912 Iceman

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:29 AM

NOT withstanding the fact that he should NOT be an SES and should not be treated with more favor for his conduct than any other Agent, he should not be railroaded because of the climate in the Bureau right now. My point is based on information suggesting that in the CURRENT events, he MAY not have been the catalyst. That is to say, there are those out there who WILL and DO make allegations against bosses to cover their own conduct or lack of productivity. If that's the case, that is NO better than a corrupt Executive management cadre and CCO railroading good hard working Agents. If he is clear of the most recent foolishness, maybe it was HQ who knee jerked the OTHER way. That doesn't justify the purging of his prior IA files or overlooking his recent past abuses, but he deserves due process just like we are all fighting for. That's ALL. Sidenote: he and other managers DO have the right and the ability to post here just like anyone else.

Again we see the cloak of secrecy. When the president was elected, he vowed that there would be transparency in government, too bad no one at HQ's was listening. I have an idea, let move him again across the country, maybe there are a couple of people in ATF who do not know his reputation. What's another 100 grand plus to lateral a bad leader who has shown he has nothing to contribute to this agency other than getting his picture in the newsletter consistently. I would love to see a move timeline for this mans career with highligted paid moves. I am not singling him out, there are many just like him who have bounced around the last 20 years. Just an expensive shell game. Hide the Manager.



#913 Patriot

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:16 AM

Again we see the cloak of secrecy. When the president was elected, he vowed that there would be transparency in government, too bad no one at HQ's was listening. I have an idea, let move him again across the country, maybe there are a couple of people in ATF who do not know his reputation. What's another 100 grand plus to lateral a bad leader who has shown he has nothing to contribute to this agency other than getting his picture in the newsletter consistently. I would love to see a move timeline for this mans career with highligted paid moves. I am not singling him out, there are many just like him who have bounced around the last 20 years. Just an expensive shell game. Hide the Manager.

#914 Iceman

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:18 AM

Can anyone confirm that Horace was REMOVED permanently as SAC Newark for OBVIOUS abuses, BUT then returned before the PRB or OIG could even investigate thoroughly? Say it ain't so. Does this guy have pictures or something? Has the SEATTLE IA file which originally got him demoted, actually disappeared contrary to EVERY archival rule and policy? How many get out of jail free passes are the SES'ers gonna get?

#915 Iceman

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:11 AM

Can anyone attest that this practice is real? It sounds outrageous. Why isn't the OIG or OSC or Congress ripping these guys a new one for wasting taxpayer dollars? Wow, this ain't a train-wreck waiting to happen is it. Your HQ doesn't seem to be able to get out of its own way. Isn't this the guy that called them out on CNN? Are they just trying to make his case for him. The fact that there others sitting out there in this status is sickening.

Let me first apologize to all for precipitating yet another ambiguous policy poorly thought out. We will call it the "Restricted duty memo".

In the way of background, the Agency, Chief counsel and the Executive staff have attempted with SOME success to totally skirt the clear cut DOJ policies regarding how long you may keep an employee on administrative duty's. Its a matter of due process and supposed to prevent punishing employees for indefinite periods of time without PROVING a violation. For the past 8-10 years, ATF has sent employees home, taken their badges and guns and just ignored the elephant in the room. Last month, I merely sent an email, apparently an unreasonable one, to the Acting Director, the Deputy Director stating simply, " Gentleman, If you are not going to fire me, I would appreciate it if you would return my credentials and duty firearm. I think my 25+ years have earned that".

In the way of further clarification for those who have suggested they are in the same undetermined status, (many of whom stayed home with NO duty's, or responsibilities for YEARS, YES YEARS), we remain sworn Special Agents, required to comply with all policies and training mandates while idling watching our service and career languish. I RECEIVED NO RESPONSE.

This month I followed up to the Same Senior Executives. This time I provided them with further information to justify my request which included but was not limited to, I am sworn and expected to respond to public safety demands in the event of violent crimes occurring in my presence. I have effected hundreds of arrests in this field division over a 25 year career. I remain armed in compliance with all State and Federal laws, and should I be required to enforce significant violations of ATF jurisdictions and heaven forbid, lethal force is required, both myself, and the agency could and most likely would incur liability and potential litigation regardless of the fact that I am currently on some form of modified or administrative duty for 9+ months. I merely suggested that unless and until my current dispute and litigation is resolved, that I qualify at the earliest possible convenience, have my credentials and firearm returned so that I may live up to my oath and requirements. I did however this time Courtesy Copy the Office of Special Counsel, Members of Congress currently reviewing the state of affairs in virtually all directorates within ATF and Senate oversight Members.

ENTER the restricted duty memo. However, my SAC at the time, was not directly involved in the action against me, so then why would he have an opinion, no matter how common sense based on whether or not my badge and gun should be returned? Total authority has been granted to the SACs when deciding who does and doesn't have their tools returned to them. And we have all seen what unfettered authority to SACs results in.
There is no review of an Agents "Restricted status" opening individuals to disparate and abusive enforcement of this status. In other words, as long as they pay you, they can put you on the beach indefinitely. Sound like a good practice? A guy or gal in Texas, can keep his gun and badge consistent with their duty's and obligations at that SACs behest, yet the "disgruntled agent" in Miami could be sitting staring at walls for years if the agency sees fit. How many of you could withstand that sort of public degradation and humiliation without ANY guarantee of a timely, fair and reasonable resolution? Unless of course you are Crenshaw, McLemore or other Management peers? Have they Pulled Newell, Gillette, Voths, McMahon, Chait or Hoovers credentials and Guns. Pure and simple, THEY, (ATF policy makers, ie Larry Ford signed the memo)have simply attempted to validate reprisal and retaliation without any sort of oversight or accountability. Its Simple question.



#916 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

Yes Vince, and keep in mind if ATF fires you or you retire, these managers will NOT be investigated per OPRSO's "policy" because YOU would no longer be with the agency. It doesn't matter that the managers are. Refer to "Madea'a Blood Pressure" regarding Newell and Needles. This is some system these SESers have going for them. Bottom line, allegations against management will not be investigated and they will retain their squeaky clean files. Damn, did someone say they get bonuses too? I want that gig.


ONE STEP FORWARD, TWO STEPS BACK


Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon and Mr. Turk,
Seriously? As you struggle to regain control of an agency that is failing in almost every capacity, re-establish trust and support of the field and the public at large, and then under ANY circumstances or with ANY minute justification, you decide it prudent to promote SAC Micahel Gleysteen in ANY capacity? ALL of us took a deep breath when you promoted Larry Ford, Mc Mahon, allowed Hoover, Chait, Newell, Gillete and Voth to remain in ANY leadership positions. But upon greater thought, you somewhat decisively admitted these poor decisions and reversed them. THEN you turn around and promote John Torres who has committed so many integrity violations, OPSEC violations, employee abuses and YES a formal finding of discrimination, (which if you hadn’t read it, our disciplinary Matrix demands TERMINATION on first offense). We choke that one down assuming there is a big picture we do NOT understand. Then Marvin Richardson, Lack of candor to the OIG, well documented promoted???????? Again, we don’t control HQ, YOU DO. But we noticed that one. Gillette remains in a position with a gun and badge, which in and of itself, with the documentation ON RECORD that you posses in the Dobyns dispute should have him pending termination. We continue to shake our collective heads starting to question your judgments. Not your authority to make such judgments, just the judgments themselves. You have a few minor successes with removing the abusive Eleanor Loos clones from LE oversight positions, promoting Sweetow, and putting in place Zellar and Leschault, so we again take a deep breath. Yes the continued absence of ASAC Charley Smith in a definitive leadership position after all he has contributed to the Agency does raise an awful lot of eyebrows. You remove Crenshaw and reinstate him so fast everybody’s head is spinning. Technicality or not, you HAVE the authority to place him in a position commensurate with his abuses and personal integrity lapses, and show the field that sort of conduct WILL NOT be tolerated by our leadership. This is a small Bureau, and we all know his history, his integrity violations and cannot be expected to Support or follow you blindly when you are willing to authorize these sorts of actions.

And at the very moment you bring a field agent Committee into HQ to maneuver through the nightmare Sullivan, Melson, Domenech, Hoover and Carter left you, thereby acknowledging you NEED our help, you then announce Mike Gleysteen as a DAD? You are in possession (as I personally provided you, and the OSC and previously IA and the OIG said documentation), (EXCEPT FOR THAT WHICH YOUR OWN ATTORNEYS SOUGHT PROTECTIVE ORDERS ON SHOULD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOW THE DEPTH OF OUR CORRUPTION), of documented and sworn evidence as well as historical statistics related to Mr. Gleysteens lack of personal integrity, false statements, incompetence and a major hand in the decimation of the San Francisco Field Division in concert with SACs Vido, Torres and Martin. You possess his personal sworn statements which carried a collective 70+ “I don’t know and I don’t recall” related directly to significant ATF policies and procedures. His soliciting of protective programs personnel to falsify the facts surrounding the willful destruction of ATF badge’s, secreting the willful destruction from the Agent, his superiors and HQ. Yes those badges cost money and they are the symbol of what we are. You hold documentation of his failure to report such violations and you have been provided personally PROOF positive of false and misleading testimony in administrative hearings, EEOC declarations and in U.S. District court. This includes but is NOT limited to mounds of emails misleading OWCP and HQ ELRB personnel.

Yes this is “lack of Candor", false and misleading statements and YES LIES. Is it prudent that we have a DAD whose ONLY answer to his actions over and over is, “That’s what counsel told me to do”? Yes, much of what is contained in this letter is related to my personal grievance with the agency, HOWEVER, over 25 ATF personnel left the San Francisco field division on his watch, and the reason this concerns all of us, is we cant remember 25 people EVER leaving ATF much less from one division in a several year period. You, (ATF leadership) paid, negotiated or settled significant employee disputes on his watch, several which were very costly monetarily and ethically, (See Tokos, Taylor, Carmen).
Mr. Gleysteen has minimal if ANY significant field experience with NO prior law Enforcement experience and this is the BEST our Bureau has the offer? Yes Sirs, that is a QUESTION. Hence the title of this topic post.



#917 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:46 PM

ONE STEP FORWARD, TWO STEPS BACK


Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon and Mr. Turk,
Seriously? As you struggle to regain control of an agency that is failing in almost every capacity, re-establish trust and support of the field and the public at large, and then under ANY circumstances or with ANY minute justification, you decide it prudent to promote SAC Micahel Gleysteen in ANY capacity? ALL of us took a deep breath when you promoted Larry Ford, Mc Mahon, allowed Hoover, Chait, Newell, Gillete and Voth to remain in ANY leadership positions. But upon greater thought, you somewhat decisively admitted these poor decisions and reversed them. THEN you turn around and promote John Torres who has committed so many integrity violations, OPSEC violations, employee abuses and YES a formal finding of discrimination, (which if you hadn’t read it, our disciplinary Matrix demands TERMINATION on first offense). We choke that one down assuming there is a big picture we do NOT understand. Then Marvin Richardson, Lack of candor to the OIG, well documented promoted???????? Again, we don’t control HQ, YOU DO. But we noticed that one. Gillette remains in a position with a gun and badge, which in and of itself, with the documentation ON RECORD that you posses in the Dobyns dispute should have him pending termination. We continue to shake our collective heads starting to question your judgments. Not your authority to make such judgments, just the judgments themselves. You have a few minor successes with removing the abusive Eleanor Loos clones from LE oversight positions, promoting Sweetow, and putting in place Zellar and Leschault, so we again take a deep breath. Yes the continued absence of ASAC Charley Smith in a definitive leadership position after all he has contributed to the Agency does raise an awful lot of eyebrows. You remove Crenshaw and reinstate him so fast everybody’s head is spinning. Technicality or not, you HAVE the authority to place him in a position commensurate with his abuses and personal integrity lapses, and show the field that sort of conduct WILL NOT be tolerated by our leadership. This is a small Bureau, and we all know his history, his integrity violations and cannot be expected to Support or follow you blindly when you are willing to authorize these sorts of actions.

And at the very moment you bring a field agent Committee into HQ to maneuver through the nightmare Sullivan, Melson, Domenech, Hoover and Carter left you, thereby acknowledging you NEED our help, you then announce Mike Gleysteen as a DAD? You are in possession (as I personally provided you, and the OSC and previously IA and the OIG said documentation), (EXCEPT FOR THAT WHICH YOUR OWN ATTORNEYS SOUGHT PROTECTIVE ORDERS ON SHOULD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOW THE DEPTH OF OUR CORRUPTION), of documented and sworn evidence as well as historical statistics related to Mr. Gleysteens lack of personal integrity, false statements, incompetence and a major hand in the decimation of the San Francisco Field Division in concert with SACs Vido, Torres and Martin. You possess his personal sworn statements which carried a collective 70+ “I don’t know and I don’t recall” related directly to significant ATF policies and procedures. His soliciting of protective programs personnel to falsify the facts surrounding the willful destruction of ATF badge’s, secreting the willful destruction from the Agent, his superiors and HQ. Yes those badges cost money and they are the symbol of what we are. You hold documentation of his failure to report such violations and you have been provided personally PROOF positive of false and misleading testimony in administrative hearings, EEOC declarations and in U.S. District court. This includes but is NOT limited to mounds of emails misleading OWCP and HQ ELRB personnel.

Yes this is “lack of Candor", false and misleading statements and YES LIES. Is it prudent that we have a DAD whose ONLY answer to his actions over and over is, “That’s what counsel told me to do”? Yes, much of what is contained in this letter is related to my personal grievance with the agency, HOWEVER, over 25 ATF personnel left the San Francisco field division on his watch, and the reason this concerns all of us, is we cant remember 25 people EVER leaving ATF much less from one division in a several year period. You, (ATF leadership) paid, negotiated or settled significant employee disputes on his watch, several which were very costly monetarily and ethically, (See Tokos, Taylor, Carmen).
Mr. Gleysteen has minimal if ANY significant field experience with NO prior law Enforcement experience and this is the BEST our Bureau has the offer? Yes Sirs, that is a QUESTION. Hence the title of this topic post.
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#918 Guest_leaderofthetards_*

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:14 PM

I would agree with you that the past leadership was either afraid of the FBI or in love with them, either way they were like the teenager doing whatever it takes to please the girl of their dreams. Look what they did with our explosives jurisdiction, instead of standing up and defending our statutory authority, managers (you know who you are) cowered in the corner afraid of upsetting DOJ. They closed their eyes with the hopes that the bad man would go away. This all brings me to the word, cowardice, defined as a lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc. We all came on the job full of courage and understand that the work we do will from time to time would put us in personal danger. There is a reason we carry firearms and train with them. We have all seen managers rise and the gun goes in a safe and to me that is a tell tale sign that they have removed themselves from the mindset that there exists danger to this job. What they have failed to see is that they, by virtue of their postion have moved on in the above definition to difficulty . Management is difficult, and what I have seen is a group of cowards, who decided to take the easy route, only look out for themselves and avoid any personal responsibility for their decisions. Why is it so hard to admit you were wrong or made a bad decision, at least that would be honest and since we are human, mistakes happen and everyone understands that. A contining pattern of mistakes is just incompetance and that should be addressed. Now is the time as we re-build to fix the mistakes, remove those who have shown a pattern of mistakes and start with a clean slate. This needs to be quick, bold and decisive or we are doomed to still be talking about this for years to come. Lastly, I am not so ready to throw away our name. I personally thought we should never have added the silent E, but neverless there is a history to this organization and we should keep it going, warts and all. A name change will fool no one, only real change will make a difference. Maybe I am alone here, but when I walk into a police department, I am proud to say I am from ATF and the cops know who and what I am, what I bring to the table and I have never been told to wait in the lobby.


Agreed Patriot. Maybe we need to make a distinction here between how the general public views us and how those in LE do. I believe ‘Retired1811’ was referring to non law enforcement. The general public may well be fooled by a name change since most seem to pay little attention. Then general public is also more inclined to view us all as incompetent. But as you said, to those in ATF and in LE in general, it won’t matter what they call us if there aren’t massive changes to correct the problems. I can also see how one would be embarrassed to claim they were an agent to the public and not be embarrassed to LE since there is likely a huge difference in how we are viewed by each. And yes, if we keep the cowards in place who are too afraid or corrupt to do the right thing, ATF will once again be revisiting this same mess in the future, and around and around the mountain we will go.




#919 Patriot

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:29 AM

I would agree with you that the past leadership was either afraid of the FBI or in love with them, either way they were like the teenager doing whatever it takes to please the girl of their dreams. Look what they did with our explosives jurisdiction, instead of standing up and defending our statutory authority, managers (you know who you are) cowered in the corner afraid of upsetting DOJ. They closed their eyes with the hopes that the bad man would go away. This all brings me to the word, cowardice, defined as a lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc. We all came on the job full of courage and understand that the work we do will from time to time would put us in personal danger. There is a reason we carry firearms and train with them. We have all seen managers rise and the gun goes in a safe and to me that is a tell tale sign that they have removed themselves from the mindset that there exists danger to this job. What they have failed to see is that they, by virtue of their postion have moved on in the above definition to difficulty . Management is difficult, and what I have seen is a group of cowards, who decided to take the easy route, only look out for themselves and avoid any personal responsibility for their decisions. Why is it so hard to admit you were wrong or made a bad decision, at least that would be honest and since we are human, mistakes happen and everyone understands that. A contining pattern of mistakes is just incompetance and that should be addressed. Now is the time as we re-build to fix the mistakes, remove those who have shown a pattern of mistakes and start with a clean slate. This needs to be quick, bold and decisive or we are doomed to still be talking about this for years to come. Lastly, I am not so ready to throw away our name. I personally thought we should never have added the silent E, but neverless there is a history to this organization and we should keep it going, warts and all. A name change will fool no one, only real change will make a difference. Maybe I am alone here, but when I walk into a police department, I am proud to say I am from ATF and the cops know who and what I am, what I bring to the table and I have never been told to wait in the lobby.

#920 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:04 PM

Retired, Madea and I just had this discussion yesterday and we came to the same conclusion. A name change couldn't hurt. What will this be in the history of the bureau, name change # 3 or 4? What needs to be emphasized is that the patterns of corruption have to change as well, otherwise, a few years from now, the agency will be having it's name changed yet again. Back in July 1995, ATF made the cover of Time Magazine as "America's most hated agency". And now once again, ATF's management has made the agency the poster child of corruption and incompetence. Maybe this next name change should be a bit more pronounced than just adding a letter.


The following is posted for a friend too intimidated to log on. Again, the block on CleanUp is not working. It's just making the leaders at ATF look even more sinister......

A rose is a rose, but by any other name ...
A turd is a turd, but by any other name ...

The problems must be fixed, then any name will be fine!

One of the dumbest things HQ ever did was allow the ATF name to continue after the move to DOJ. FEA (firearms, explosives, and arson) wasn't allowed to be the new name as Fea means ugly in spanish. (you cant make this stuff up)
HQ executive management made some oddball decision to actually change the name to ATFE, but never refer to the agency using the E, as it would upset the FBI. Really stupid executive decision, which is nothing new. Remember being allowed to vote on the badge , then Edgar picking the badge he liked so your vote was just another joke?

Bureau of Violent Crime was suggested, highly recommended, but the FBI was very upset about the entire name! The sky would fall if anyone ever referred to us as The Bureau! And Violent Crime, oh me, oh my, for goodness sake Congress might forget that the FBI works violent crime, and the public might think the only " awesome" agency was the agency working violent crime. DUH! Brilliant group over in the FBI PR department.

Current rumors are leaning toward placing regulatory back with TTB, and to place the LE side in a division of the FBI. Violent Crime Division of THE BUREAU!
Of course to do such a move, more buyouts will be offered, as the FBI really isn't interested in having our people, so the fewer, the better. Of course, the FBI already anticipates a huge Congressional windfall of money to absorb us with our ugly baggage. It will take at least a billion dollars to deal with us, perhaps even more as we will need to have background investigations by them, and re-tread school for every employee, and office consolidations, and managers will be pushed toward buyouts/retirement. The last thing any agency wants is our management merged with their management. Executive egos will need a xanax with their morning coffee.

Of course this is all rumor and speculation. The next rumor might have us working for the EPA, as they arent feeling much love these days either. BATFEEP what does that mean in spanish? Batshit?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, we have problems to be fully addressed and resolved far beyond gun walking/trafficking. Fix the persistent problems, worry about the letters on our T- shirts later!


"26 years and counting"

#921 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:36 PM

I have been retired as an ATF agent for many years now. Most people that I am friends with now have no idea that I was ever an ATF agent. As members of the general public I can tell you that they support the laws you support but see all ATF agents at all levels as being nice people that aren't very bright. When I was an active agent I suffered under the same illusion that you are that ATF agents where respected. Wrong. A name change for your agency can do nothing but help you. Hang in there.


Retired, Madea and I just had this discussion yesterday and we came to the same conclusion. A name change couldn't hurt. What will this be in the history of the bureau, name change # 3 or 4? What needs to be emphasized is that the patterns of corruption have to change as well, otherwise, a few years from now, the agency will be having it's name changed yet again. Back in July 1995, ATF made the cover of Time Magazine as "America's most hated agency". And now once again, ATF's management has made the agency the poster child of corruption and incompetence. Maybe this next name change should be a bit more pronounced than just adding a letter.


#922 retired1811

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:28 PM

Listen to the attached radio interview by DD Brandon. Listen closly to the phrase he makes regarding "Violent Crime Bureau", and how many times did he say it in a 6 minute interview. We are hearing there is scuttlebutt, aka RUMOR only, that there is discussion on the table to fragment ATF Enforcement and regulatory, sending regulatory back to treasury and ATF enforcement being reorganized to some sort of violent crime Bureau. Sure sounds like we are being sold down the river.I guess when Martin et al were tanking our arson explosives programs, they didnt see the slow dismantling of the Gretest Law Enforcement agency of all time. I hope for all of our sakes, this is JUST a rumor.

http://www.ticklethe...st-and-furious/


I have been retired as an ATF agent for many years now. Most people that I am friends with now have no idea that I was ever an ATF agent. As members of the general public I can tell you that they support the laws you support but see all ATF agents at all levels as being nice people that aren't very bright. When I was an active agent I suffered under the same illusion that you are that ATF agents where respected. Wrong. A name change for your agency can do nothing but help you. Hang in there.

#923 Iceman

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:08 PM

Listen to the attached radio interview by DD Brandon. Listen closly to the phrase he makes regarding "Violent Crime Bureau", and how many times did he say it in a 6 minute interview. We are hearing there is scuttlebutt, aka RUMOR only, that there is discussion on the table to fragment ATF Enforcement and regulatory, sending regulatory back to treasury and ATF enforcement being reorganized to some sort of violent crime Bureau. Sure sounds like we are being sold down the river.I guess when Martin et al were tanking our arson explosives programs, they didnt see the slow dismantling of the Gretest Law Enforcement agency of all time. I hope for all of our sakes, this is JUST a rumor.

http://www.ticklethe...st-and-furious/

#924 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:54 AM

The "field" committee meets for the first time this week. We will begin to receive status updates soon. This will allow us to gauge the commitment of Mr. Brandon and Mr. Jones. There will be NO magic wand, BUT we will collectively determine very quickly whether this is merely more smoke and mirrors, OR whether or not, HQ has finally figured out that WE have MORE collective knowledge both institutionally and well as mission related and that WE are the only hope for the future of ATF, IF ITS NOT TOO LATE. Bottom line is,unless and until our leadership realizes a basic fact, which is, the ENTIRE HQ mechanism could be abolished and this Agency could thrive as good or better than ever. HOWEVER, you dispose of the Agents and Inspectors and field personnel, we have to close the doors. In other words, they need the 5000 of us, far more than we need them in their current state of dysfunctional conduct. If you dispute this, AND YOU MAY, ask yourself when the last time your RAC, ASAC, SAC, or HQ personnel were shut down or on leave, DID it slow, stay the same, or enhance the process of investigations or inspections?

Let me first apologize to all for precipitating yet another ambiguous policy poorly thought out. We will call it the "Restricted duty memo".

In the way of background, the Agency, Chief counsel and the Executive staff have attempted with SOME success to totally skirt the clear cut DOJ policies regarding how long you may keep an employee on administrative duty's. Its a matter of due process and supposed to prevent punishing employees for indefinite periods of time without PROVING a violation. For the past 8-10 years, ATF has sent employees home, taken their badges and guns and just ignored the elephant in the room. Last month, I merely sent an email, apparently an unreasonable one, to the Acting Director, the Deputy Director stating simply, " Gentleman, If you are not going to fire me, I would appreciate it if you would return my credentials and duty firearm. I think my 25+ years have earned that".

In the way of further clarification for those who have suggested they are in the same undetermined status, (many of whom stayed home with NO duty's, or responsibilities for YEARS, YES YEARS), we remain sworn Special Agents, required to comply with all policies and training mandates while idling watching our service and career languish. I RECEIVED NO RESPONSE.

This month I followed up to the Same Senior Executives. This time I provided them with further information to justify my request which included but was not limited to, I am sworn and expected to respond to public safety demands in the event of violent crimes occurring in my presence. I have effected hundreds of arrests in this field division over a 25 year career. I remain armed in compliance with all State and Federal laws, and should I be required to enforce significant violations of ATF jurisdictions and heaven forbid, lethal force is required, both myself, and the agency could and most likely would incur liability and potential litigation regardless of the fact that I am currently on some form of modified or administrative duty for 9+ months. I merely suggested that unless and until my current dispute and litigation is resolved, that I qualify at the earliest possible convenience, have my credentials and firearm returned so that I may live up to my oath and requirements. I did however this time Courtesy Copy the Office of Special Counsel, Members of Congress currently reviewing the state of affairs in virtually all directorates within ATF and Senate oversight Members.

ENTER the restricted duty memo. However, my SAC at the time, was not directly involved in the action against me, so then why would he have an opinion, no matter how common sense based on whether or not my badge and gun should be returned? Total authority has been granted to the SACs when deciding who does and doesn't have their tools returned to them. And we have all seen what unfettered authority to SACs results in.
There is no review of an Agents "Restricted status" opening individuals to disparate and abusive enforcement of this status. In other words, as long as they pay you, they can put you on the beach indefinitely. Sound like a good practice? A guy or gal in Texas, can keep his gun and badge consistent with their duty's and obligations at that SACs behest, yet the "disgruntled agent" in Miami could be sitting staring at walls for years if the agency sees fit. How many of you could withstand that sort of public degradation and humiliation without ANY guarantee of a timely, fair and reasonable resolution? Unless of course you are Crenshaw, McLemore or other Management peers? Have they Pulled Newell, Gillette, Voths, McMahon, Chait or Hoovers credentials and Guns. Pure and simple, THEY, (ATF policy makers, ie Larry Ford signed the memo)have simply attempted to validate reprisal and retaliation without any sort of oversight or accountability. Its Simple question.


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#925 Thor God of Thunder

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:48 AM

Now more than ever, we as an agency need to focus on facts. What these facts mean is only speculation based on institutional history, recent indecisiveness and the ever changing landscape of ATF. If I were a young relatively new Agent, I would be asking, is this what I have to look forward to for the next 25 years of my career?
Fact: Not one Directorate has had the same Executive staff in place for more than one year. This does NOT lead to accountability or consistency.
Fact: Many of our senior Executive staff have not filled a position for even one year.
Fact: We have no two year much less a five year plan to advance, rebuild and strengthen our programs.
Fact: We continue to protect SES managers who's credibility has been destroyed by their actions, yet remain in place. This can only cause the Bureau to question each and every positive adjustment as smoke and mirrors to quell the field.
Fact: Special Agents are now filling positions previously held by attorneys. At face value, this is a clear shift in institutional mentality and a slow return to a law enforcement mission focused Bureau. The question looming is, will this be modified in 90 days and the continued roller coaster of leadership continue?
Fact: The current top management has shown the ability to evaluate their decisions and reverse the destructive ones made in haste.
Fact: Until the serious and abusive actions of their predecessors are rectified and those responsible properly dealt with, ALL of these baby steps will not solidify the field and cause this now fragmented and crippled Bureau, to close ranks and begin to once again handle our disputes in house without negative impact to the agency at large.
Fact: Until the managers who have failed this agency intentionally, out of incompetence or shear lack of character and experience, are demoted, returned to lower grades, have their SES status removed, it will fall on the decent and dedicated managers to carry the water of those who have failed. Until managers promoted over the last five years after overseeing failed programs, ie our arson and explosives jurisdictions, NIBIN, ESF-13 are re-assigned to areas more consistent with their performance and skill sets, and NOT PROMOTED, the current leadership can make all the changes they want and we will remain at the status quo.
Fact: Without reviewing the absolute performance of managers promoted over the past 5 years and necessarily reviewing their time in the field doing Special Agent or Inspector work, actual cases made, time on the job, and contributions to the overall well-being and advancement of the Bureau, the field will look at our current cadre of Supervisors through suspicious lenses. If they only have 8-10 years on the job, have only held a street agent job for no more than 6-8 years and are now overseeing our field operations, the field will not respect, follow or support the Agency through hard times.
Fact: Until our leaders make it crystal clear that our mission and nothing else needs to be the priority of every Agent, Inspector and Technical employee and manager of this agency, you will not regain their support. And that the very first time divisive, or abusive tactics by ANY management staff are employed as evidenced by an excessive amount of complaints, reduced productivity, an inordinate amount of adopted cases etc etc are exposed, it will result in said staffs ONE and ONLY warning. This will prevent the future exodus of virtually EVERY senior Special Agent and over 25 Agents in a 5 year period, WELL before mandatory retirement age that occurred under the now infamous rotation of San Francisco senior managers.
Fact: If particular and tangible measurements for Agents,Inspectors and managers alike are NOT put in place and enforced, OUR Bureau is on a path to failure which will threaten the existence of one of the if not THE most effective and prominent Law Enforcement Agency in the history of law enforcement.

These facts are indisputable.
Those who stood by and watched Fast and Furious and Chief counsels reign of terror must be strongly encouraged to retire or be shown the door, not just re-assigned or given a sweet transfer. Any SES on your staff who was in place and attempts to justify their cowardly apathy during F and F, must be shown the door.
One of your DADs stated under oath and on record that he/she spoke up in opposition to F and F, (as pathetic as admitting that was)("I said I didn't like it"), this will be the elephant in the room that isn't going away. The fact that a host of managers quietly left the room when these crimes were mentioned is enough to send them packing.

We have shown we will NOT follow this type of management. Final FACT, Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon, their are NOT ENOUGH new hires and new agent training classes to rebuild this agency. You CANNOT afford to lose ONE MORE senior experienced Agent at the hands of those who seek nothing more than self advancement. You must down size this crazy GS 14/15/SES heavy Bureaucracy and return it to a law enforcement and regulatory team.

In the United States Marine Corps our code was EVERY Marine was first and foremost a rifleman. Can you in earnest make that statement of our current ATF? Look to your right and to your left and ask those around you, "When was the last time you helped a field agent write a search warrant to help out,or took up rear security during a warrants execution, or just rode with an agent to transport a prisoner? If their answer is in years, is it perhaps time to re-evaluate who is guiding and leading our people into harms way? Just as the ONLY Commandant of the U S Marine Corps, (Gen. Al Gray) to have his Official photograph taken in jungle utilities to remind each under his command of this code, our leaders can no longer talk in management code, hold 4-5 day RAC/ASAC/SAC conferences and never utter the words, arrest, warrant, undercover, revocation or inspection.
We do not need, nor can we afford, an SES boss to supervise an SES boss, who supervise a GS 15 boss who supervises another GS 15 boss, who supervise 9 GS 14 bosses, (several of whom have one sole function in this agency such as OCDETF coordinator, ESF 13 coordinator) or any other duty which would have been merely a collateral duty for a hard working GS 13 Agent in the past. Our enemies in Congress, outside agency's, and the criminal public hope we continue on the path we are currently on.



You have said a mouthful! I just hope it does not fall on deaf ears!!
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For Clean Up ATF!

#926 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 07:18 AM

Now more than ever, we as an agency need to focus on facts. What these facts mean is only speculation based on institutional history, recent indecisiveness and the ever changing landscape of ATF. If I were a young relatively new Agent, I would be asking, is this what I have to look forward to for the next 25 years of my career?
Fact: Not one Directorate has had the same Executive staff in place for more than one year. This does NOT lead to accountability or consistency.
Fact: Many of our senior Executive staff have not filled a position for even one year.
Fact: We have no two year much less a five year plan to advance, rebuild and strengthen our programs.
Fact: We continue to protect SES managers who's credibility has been destroyed by their actions, yet remain in place. This can only cause the Bureau to question each and every positive adjustment as smoke and mirrors to quell the field.
Fact: Special Agents are now filling positions previously held by attorneys. At face value, this is a clear shift in institutional mentality and a slow return to a law enforcement mission focused Bureau. The question looming is, will this be modified in 90 days and the continued roller coaster of leadership continue?
Fact: The current top management has shown the ability to evaluate their decisions and reverse the destructive ones made in haste.
Fact: Until the serious and abusive actions of their predecessors are rectified and those responsible properly dealt with, ALL of these baby steps will not solidify the field and cause this now fragmented and crippled Bureau, to close ranks and begin to once again handle our disputes in house without negative impact to the agency at large.
Fact: Until the managers who have failed this agency intentionally, out of incompetence or shear lack of character and experience, are demoted, returned to lower grades, have their SES status removed, it will fall on the decent and dedicated managers to carry the water of those who have failed. Until managers promoted over the last five years after overseeing failed programs, ie our arson and explosives jurisdictions, NIBIN, ESF-13 are re-assigned to areas more consistent with their performance and skill sets, and NOT PROMOTED, the current leadership can make all the changes they want and we will remain at the status quo.
Fact: Without reviewing the absolute performance of managers promoted over the past 5 years and necessarily reviewing their time in the field doing Special Agent or Inspector work, actual cases made, time on the job, and contributions to the overall well-being and advancement of the Bureau, the field will look at our current cadre of Supervisors through suspicious lenses. If they only have 8-10 years on the job, have only held a street agent job for no more than 6-8 years and are now overseeing our field operations, the field will not respect, follow or support the Agency through hard times.
Fact: Until our leaders make it crystal clear that our mission and nothing else needs to be the priority of every Agent, Inspector and Technical employee and manager of this agency, you will not regain their support. And that the very first time divisive, or abusive tactics by ANY management staff are employed as evidenced by an excessive amount of complaints, reduced productivity, an inordinate amount of adopted cases etc etc are exposed, it will result in said staffs ONE and ONLY warning. This will prevent the future exodus of virtually EVERY senior Special Agent and over 25 Agents in a 5 year period, WELL before mandatory retirement age that occurred under the now infamous rotation of San Francisco senior managers.
Fact: If particular and tangible measurements for Agents,Inspectors and managers alike are NOT put in place and enforced, OUR Bureau is on a path to failure which will threaten the existence of one of the if not THE most effective and prominent Law Enforcement Agency in the history of law enforcement.

These facts are indisputable.
Those who stood by and watched Fast and Furious and Chief counsels reign of terror must be strongly encouraged to retire or be shown the door, not just re-assigned or given a sweet transfer. Any SES on your staff who was in place and attempts to justify their cowardly apathy during F and F, must be shown the door.
One of your DADs stated under oath and on record that he/she spoke up in opposition to F and F, (as pathetic as admitting that was)("I said I didn't like it"), this will be the elephant in the room that isn't going away. The fact that a host of managers quietly left the room when these crimes were mentioned is enough to send them packing.

We have shown we will NOT follow this type of management. Final FACT, Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon, their are NOT ENOUGH new hires and new agent training classes to rebuild this agency. You CANNOT afford to lose ONE MORE senior experienced Agent at the hands of those who seek nothing more than self advancement. You must down size this crazy GS 14/15/SES heavy Bureaucracy and return it to a law enforcement and regulatory team.

In the United States Marine Corps our code was EVERY Marine was first and foremost a rifleman. Can you in earnest make that statement of our current ATF? Look to your right and to your left and ask those around you, "When was the last time you helped a field agent write a search warrant to help out,or took up rear security during a warrants execution, or just rode with an agent to transport a prisoner? If their answer is in years, is it perhaps time to re-evaluate who is guiding and leading our people into harms way? Just as the ONLY Commandant of the U S Marine Corps, (Gen. Al Gray) to have his Official photograph taken in jungle utilities to remind each under his command of this code, our leaders can no longer talk in management code, hold 4-5 day RAC/ASAC/SAC conferences and never utter the words, arrest, warrant, undercover, revocation or inspection.
We do not need, nor can we afford, an SES boss to supervise an SES boss, who supervise a GS 15 boss who supervises another GS 15 boss, who supervise 9 GS 14 bosses, (several of whom have one sole function in this agency such as OCDETF coordinator, ESF 13 coordinator) or any other duty which would have been merely a collateral duty for a hard working GS 13 Agent in the past. Our enemies in Congress, outside agency's, and the criminal public hope we continue on the path we are currently on.


Great post Vince. I hope the panels are reading and realizing that the disfunction of ATF goes deep and will take massive changes to correct. The initial baby steps taken recently need to quickly become leaps or it will likely be too little, too late. The only thing I can think to add is that the tidal wave of attorneys at ATF running around creating litigation to justify their presence has to end. This is an investigative agency full of investigators. These blood thirsty attorneys are not needed and only cost the agency money, morale, and reputation.

#927 Hilltopper

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 07:12 AM

In follow up, has anyone heard if Erika Ritt will still be handling the cases left in limbo by G. Elaine Smith?

#928 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:01 AM

Now more than ever, we as an agency need to focus on facts. What these facts mean is only speculation based on institutional history, recent indecisiveness and the ever changing landscape of ATF. If I were a young relatively new Agent, I would be asking, is this what I have to look forward to for the next 25 years of my career?
Fact: Not one Directorate has had the same Executive staff in place for more than one year. This does NOT lead to accountability or consistency.
Fact: Many of our senior Executive staff have not filled a position for even one year.
Fact: We have no two year much less a five year plan to advance, rebuild and strengthen our programs.
Fact: We continue to protect SES managers who's credibility has been destroyed by their actions, yet remain in place. This can only cause the Bureau to question each and every positive adjustment as smoke and mirrors to quell the field.
Fact: Special Agents are now filling positions previously held by attorneys. At face value, this is a clear shift in institutional mentality and a slow return to a law enforcement mission focused Bureau. The question looming is, will this be modified in 90 days and the continued roller coaster of leadership continue?
Fact: The current top management has shown the ability to evaluate their decisions and reverse the destructive ones made in haste.
Fact: Until the serious and abusive actions of their predecessors are rectified and those responsible properly dealt with, ALL of these baby steps will not solidify the field and cause this now fragmented and crippled Bureau, to close ranks and begin to once again handle our disputes in house without negative impact to the agency at large.
Fact: Until the managers who have failed this agency intentionally, out of incompetence or shear lack of character and experience, are demoted, returned to lower grades, have their SES status removed, it will fall on the decent and dedicated managers to carry the water of those who have failed. Until managers promoted over the last five years after overseeing failed programs, ie our arson and explosives jurisdictions, NIBIN, ESF-13 are re-assigned to areas more consistent with their performance and skill sets, and NOT PROMOTED, the current leadership can make all the changes they want and we will remain at the status quo.
Fact: Without reviewing the absolute performance of managers promoted over the past 5 years and necessarily reviewing their time in the field doing Special Agent or Inspector work, actual cases made, time on the job, and contributions to the overall well-being and advancement of the Bureau, the field will look at our current cadre of Supervisors through suspicious lenses. If they only have 8-10 years on the job, have only held a street agent job for no more than 6-8 years and are now overseeing our field operations, the field will not respect, follow or support the Agency through hard times.
Fact: Until our leaders make it crystal clear that our mission and nothing else needs to be the priority of every Agent, Inspector and Technical employee and manager of this agency, you will not regain their support. And that the very first time divisive, or abusive tactics by ANY management staff are employed as evidenced by an excessive amount of complaints, reduced productivity, an inordinate amount of adopted cases etc etc are exposed, it will result in said staffs ONE and ONLY warning. This will prevent the future exodus of virtually EVERY senior Special Agent and over 25 Agents in a 5 year period, WELL before mandatory retirement age that occurred under the now infamous rotation of San Francisco senior managers.
Fact: If particular and tangible measurements for Agents,Inspectors and managers alike are NOT put in place and enforced, OUR Bureau is on a path to failure which will threaten the existence of one of the if not THE most effective and prominent Law Enforcement Agency in the history of law enforcement.

These facts are indisputable.
Those who stood by and watched Fast and Furious and Chief counsels reign of terror must be strongly encouraged to retire or be shown the door, not just re-assigned or given a sweet transfer. Any SES on your staff who was in place and attempts to justify their cowardly apathy during F and F, must be shown the door.
One of your DADs stated under oath and on record that he/she spoke up in opposition to F and F, (as pathetic as admitting that was)("I said I didn't like it"), this will be the elephant in the room that isn't going away. The fact that a host of managers quietly left the room when these crimes were mentioned is enough to send them packing.

We have shown we will NOT follow this type of management. Final FACT, Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon, their are NOT ENOUGH new hires and new agent training classes to rebuild this agency. You CANNOT afford to lose ONE MORE senior experienced Agent at the hands of those who seek nothing more than self advancement. You must down size this crazy GS 14/15/SES heavy Bureaucracy and return it to a law enforcement and regulatory team.

In the United States Marine Corps our code was EVERY Marine was first and foremost a rifleman. Can you in earnest make that statement of our current ATF? Look to your right and to your left and ask those around you, "When was the last time you helped a field agent write a search warrant to help out,or took up rear security during a warrants execution, or just rode with an agent to transport a prisoner? If their answer is in years, is it perhaps time to re-evaluate who is guiding and leading our people into harms way? Just as the ONLY Commandant of the U S Marine Corps, (Gen. Al Gray) to have his Official photograph taken in jungle utilities to remind each under his command of this code, our leaders can no longer talk in management code, hold 4-5 day RAC/ASAC/SAC conferences and never utter the words, arrest, warrant, undercover, revocation or inspection.
We do not need, nor can we afford, an SES boss to supervise an SES boss, who supervise a GS 15 boss who supervises another GS 15 boss, who supervise 9 GS 14 bosses, (several of whom have one sole function in this agency such as OCDETF coordinator, ESF 13 coordinator) or any other duty which would have been merely a collateral duty for a hard working GS 13 Agent in the past. Our enemies in Congress, outside agency's, and the criminal public hope we continue on the path we are currently on.
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#929 Doc Holiday

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:54 AM

The media should FOIA exactly HOW MANY agents have been placed in restricted duty status and for how long. Since its a formal government policy, seems like there is nothing sensitive or privacy protected.

My wife corrected me this morning. She said I should call my house the "detention center" instead of "the jail". She says detention centers are nicer...



#930 Jaime3

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:30 PM

Just wanted to share a colleagues experience with the Ombudsmans office.


"Although we didn't agree on a few things, I found him to offer an honest opinion concerning the ATF climate.

We shared our education, job experience, opinions, and ATF positions.

I found him to be someone that, if I was running for President, I would like to have on my team! It would definitely boost ratings! LOL!
Although we went back and forth debating, it was refreshing that he wasn't rude or abruptly end the conversation with a hang up. His experience definitely shined.


So this is where it got a little sticky for me:
I couldn't help but to feel after he spoke with the EEO office to follow up on my situation, there was a change in the climate of our conversation.

So, I put it out there and shared with him the EEO office has stepped out, enduldging in unethical conversations with Management. That's when the debate began.

He defended this particular office through his experience and knowledge. And to be quite honest, that's what you're supposed to do for Colleagues you have no negative experience with.
In my opinion, he seemed passionate about my shared opinion. And from a human aspect, with respecting the difference of opinions, passion happens.

What I didn't share with him was...my fact came from an actual person employed at that office who shared an honest opinion.
The opinion of how the EEO office would run better to protect the personnel filing complaints.
(Also, I didn't share the specific things Eleanor Loos said about my case and how a particular EEO personnel said it will be thrown out)

I honestly respected the EEO person for sharing a raw and honest opinion of the office challenges, although it was no secret.
In my opinion, these kind of opinions should be welcoming in a climate of change.
That person should feel proud for stepping up and pointing out the obvious, not feel like they've betrayed the ATF and need to contemplate job security.

The overall result of me and the EEO personnel sharing that dialogue allowed a Brainstorm of Change.
That office enacted a change when the new Acting Director came on the scene, in which was a win situation for that office.

(The Ombudsman guy did share with me something that struck me as quite odd. He referenced the EEO sending me something asking for a decision through the Bureau. But the EEO office didn't send me that paper until after I requested a hearing)

In later days of my case, I was asked and shared my honest opinion about the EEO office's operation. I'm not one to lie nor dance.

If an office can not act independently to fulfill their enacted mission, it defeats the purpose of its existence.
Now whether someone took that opinion and became upset or put a spin on my interpretation, that's out of my control.

I shared with him my Appraisals and pointed out my opinion of abuse. We didn't agree on that topic.

I'm not a perfect person and I get frustrated like anyone else.
You can only get beat down for so long before you openly express your opinion of the treatment.
However, I do leave my expression of frustrations through eloquent, written conversation versus using it in a physically threatening manner because I'm disciplined.

What I didn't share with him was how my Supervisor bragged to me about Manager's abuse of the Appraisal system.
This Supervisor shared how to the take steps in marking you down to show a downward trend to make that person shut up.

This is a good Appraisal strategy. However, it's only good when it's not being used as an abuse tool because someone pisses you off.

But the real question is, "Are the Supervisors marked down?" They should be as only good as their team. Who polices them?

I did share with him my Supervisor didn't write my Appraisal, but my Supervisor's Supervisor wrote it.
This Manager's been around for awhile and knows how to manipulate the system. But unfortunately, in some management terms it's called "Experience."

This trend of abuse should be recognized and called out, not defended. Because in the end, it's not about the power you have, but how you use it.
News flash: ATF will not have too many Managers and Supervisors with bad things on their record because people were in fear of reprisal and being labeled as "whining crybabies." A lot of these paper trail of complaints went away...with the Union.
When people start deciding cases in the court of popular opinion, they are, in an essence denying due process.

My standing opinion of this experience:
Anybody who looks at a particular game (case) will have a different opinion. Your opinion weighs heavily on where in the arena you're sitting or who you're rooting for.
If you played a certain position on a team, It's ok to have a particular bias of that position because we're only human.
But we must be mindful that our opinion/decision doesn't defend bad behavior because that's what hurts the team.

So some questions we must ask ourselves, "How would we like to be treated for being different or offering an unpopular opinion?"
"Have you ever been on the severe receiving end of a Managers abuse and how did it affect you?"
"Have you ever had someone in an influential position to lie on and about you?"
"How could this situation been handled at the lowest level"

So overall, it was a pretty fair conversation of him sharing his opinion with the limited information given.
It was an interesting conversation because I'm never looking for someone to agree with me, I'm looking to see if bad behavior and abuse is defended.
For me...it's not about win or lose, it's about compromise and doing the right thing.

In the end it was a "Potato, Potatoe" debate that ended fairly well.

So within ATF, my case is still pending!
But outside ATF, my situation caught the eye of someone really important and I respect.
I no longer question my cases validity or my own sanity.

Later Dude!"



#931 sierra donaven

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:08 PM

Greetings Comrades,

Today I "heard" that Manager S/A Fuzzy Zellers has been appointed the new Bureau Deciding Official. If this information is correct, I believe this is a story of which we all can relate:

Back in 1989, Agent Zellers, assigned to Toledo, Ohio, assisted the Detroit Field Division in an undercover purchase of a machine-gun from a subject having residence in the Toledo area. This particular operation was part of a large scale firearms trafficking investigation, and bureau headquarters' project conducted by the Detroit Field Division to which I was assigned coordinator. From logistics planning, end of the transaction and later, arrest of the subject, S/A Zellers' assistance was supportive and even then he demonstrated leadership. He got behind the bureau's mission and he got behind the Detroit Field Division.

The titles may be different, the pay scale too, whether pants, skirt, or BDUs, we really are all the same, and needing the same things to get our jobs done, and one of those things critical to success and a necessity is support. Can you recall a time when you requested support only to be met with a glare, scatter, or excuse? Can you recall a time when others worked alongside you in confidence and respect. Now that BDO Zellers ties the laces in his shoes much tighter, he has too, he too in turn needs support as he has extended I am sure countless occasions such as that in 1989. When we all support each other everyone wins, it keeps us in top shape mentally and emotionally, and when we have to fight for it, it dashes self-esteem, potential, pits us against one another and grows weeds in our hearts of bitterness, anger, and depression.

DD Brandon and/or the person(s) responsible for S/A Zellers latest appointment, you must know that each just step you take forwards the agency, and morale, integrity, equality, honor and professionalism rises however slight to the benefit of ALL.

Peace and Goodwill,

Comrade Sierra Donaven


TRUTH, JUSTICE & PEACE
THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN THE TRUTH - Madame Blavatsky, Theosophy


#932 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:32 AM

Thank you Vince for your excellent posting. It gives Madea the opportunity to address how long this has been going on. I can’t remember all the people who have been left home to suffer, but the first that comes to mind are Diane and Mike Casali. Both were left sitting in a storage room, with no TV or computer, for several years. At Mike Casali’s MSBP hearing, the judge specifically addressed the fact that Mike was in that storage room all those years. So, the ATF attorneys were aware of the fact that ATF was paying out damages for that specific action. It didn’t faze them.

Then we have Marty Badegian, a co-worker of Jay’s. Marty sat at home for 4 years while Joe Gordon tried to find someone to criminally prosecute him. The EEOC judge assigned to Marty’s case confronted the ATF attorneys about why he was still sitting at home. It didn’t faze them.

Then we have Rene Jaquez. He sat home because he had a non-sexual nickname for his secretary and told a female agent that she had spilled coffee on her blouse. Apparently this is serious enough to idle an agent for 18 months. ATF continues to defend it’s despicable behavior in Rene’s case.

Vince, there is a history of Administrative Judges discouraging ATF from this practice. It didn’t faze them. It is my belief that CleanUp has caused them to change this policy because so many are sitting at home and it is now in the public domain that they are.


#933 Hilltopper

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:13 AM

My wife corrected me this morning. She said I should call my house the "detention center" instead of "the jail". She says detention centers are nicer...

#934 Hilltopper

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:25 AM

Vince you make a very good point about the netherworld we are living in while sitting at home.

I was just talking to the squirrels about this yesterday. I left my house (my own jail) and went to run some errands during my "lunch break". One of these errands was to stop by the bank. While there, I saw this shady guy standing in line with a hood and sunglasses on. I wondered what I would do if he tried to rob the bank. My gun, badge and credentials are locked up at the ATF division. I'm not carrying another personal gun now because I don't have any ID to show the police that I'm the police.

But I do have a couple of business cards in my wallet. So if the guy robbed the bank I could have held up my business card and told him to "stop, police!" I would end up getting shot and everyone would ask why an ATF agent was unarmed. Im sure it would end up being my fault one way or another because I left my "jail" during business hours.

So, am I the police anymore right now or not? I don't know. I don't feel like it. But would I attempt to stop a violent crime in progress even though I'm not armed and have no credentials? Probably so, because that's what my first instinct would be.

I can only imagine how that phone call to my division would go... "hey boss, I just caught a bank robber and got shot in the process...i know Im supposed to be at home in my jail from 9-5 watching squirrels, but I still get a lunch break, right?"

Maybe a decision will come soon for us brother. I'm still trying to find my way through this process while keeping my sanity. My hope remains in God and Tom Brandon for a decision soon. I know the BDO is covered up with cases, but that doesn't make this any easier.

Folks can hate this forum all they want, but this is the ONLY outlet alot of us have for answers and support. Keep checking in Mr. Brandon.

#935 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:58 AM

Let me first apologize to all for precipitating yet another ambiguous policy poorly thought out. We will call it the "Restricted duty memo".

In the way of background, the Agency, Chief counsel and the Executive staff have attempted with SOME success to totally skirt the clear cut DOJ policies regarding how long you may keep an employee on administrative duty's. Its a matter of due process and supposed to prevent punishing employees for indefinite periods of time without PROVING a violation. For the past 8-10 years, ATF has sent employees home, taken their badges and guns and just ignored the elephant in the room. Last month, I merely sent an email, apparently an unreasonable one, to the Acting Director, the Deputy Director stating simply, " Gentleman, If you are not going to fire me, I would appreciate it if you would return my credentials and duty firearm. I think my 25+ years have earned that".

In the way of further clarification for those who have suggested they are in the same undetermined status, (many of whom stayed home with NO duty's, or responsibilities for YEARS, YES YEARS), we remain sworn Special Agents, required to comply with all policies and training mandates while idling watching our service and career languish. I RECEIVED NO RESPONSE.

This month I followed up to the Same Senior Executives. This time I provided them with further information to justify my request which included but was not limited to, I am sworn and expected to respond to public safety demands in the event of violent crimes occurring in my presence. I have effected hundreds of arrests in this field division over a 25 year career. I remain armed in compliance with all State and Federal laws, and should I be required to enforce significant violations of ATF jurisdictions and heaven forbid, lethal force is required, both myself, and the agency could and most likely would incur liability and potential litigation regardless of the fact that I am currently on some form of modified or administrative duty for 9+ months. I merely suggested that unless and until my current dispute and litigation is resolved, that I qualify at the earliest possible convenience, have my credentials and firearm returned so that I may live up to my oath and requirements. I did however this time Courtesy Copy the Office of Special Counsel, Members of Congress currently reviewing the state of affairs in virtually all directorates within ATF and Senate oversight Members.

ENTER the restricted duty memo. However, my SAC at the time, was not directly involved in the action against me, so then why would he have an opinion, no matter how common sense based on whether or not my badge and gun should be returned? Total authority has been granted to the SACs when deciding who does and doesn't have their tools returned to them. And we have all seen what unfettered authority to SACs results in.
There is no review of an Agents "Restricted status" opening individuals to disparate and abusive enforcement of this status. In other words, as long as they pay you, they can put you on the beach indefinitely. Sound like a good practice? A guy or gal in Texas, can keep his gun and badge consistent with their duty's and obligations at that SACs behest, yet the "disgruntled agent" in Miami could be sitting staring at walls for years if the agency sees fit. How many of you could withstand that sort of public degradation and humiliation without ANY guarantee of a timely, fair and reasonable resolution? Unless of course you are Crenshaw, McLemore or other Management peers? Have they Pulled Newell, Gillette, Voths, McMahon, Chait or Hoovers credentials and Guns. Pure and simple, THEY, (ATF policy makers, ie Larry Ford signed the memo)have simply attempted to validate reprisal and retaliation without any sort of oversight or accountability. Its Simple question.
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#936 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:40 PM

It was Steve Martin.

I am fairly certain it was Larry Ford. Good luck Chicago, bad days ahead.


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#937 Guest_madea_*

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:42 AM

I am fairly certain it was Larry Ford. Good luck Chicago, bad days ahead.


No no no Patriot, good day for Chicago. Appropriate officials have been alerted to Winfred's return and will be watching him. Unfortunately for Winfred, those eyes don't like him. ;)

#938 Patriot

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:55 AM

I am fairly certain it was Larry Ford. Good luck Chicago, bad days ahead.

#939 Jaime3

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:20 PM

Does anyone know the Chicago SAC before Andy Traver?

#940 BeenThereDoneThat

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:34 AM

I can only hope that ATF Senior Leaders and Attorney's take a moment today to reflect upon a day 19 years ago. I hope they can recognize that bad decision making can have serious consequences. I hope they can recognize that they will have to answer for their decisions and lastly I hope that they can envision what those agents encountered and addressed in those hours and days following. A few moments of reflection can put a lot into perspective. Sorry if I have strayed from the topic. Today just affects me every year.

Amen

It was a sad day.

#941 Patriot

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:10 AM

I can only hope that ATF Senior Leaders and Attorney's take a moment today to reflect upon a day 19 years ago. I hope they can recognize that bad decision making can have serious consequences. I hope they can recognize that they will have to answer for their decisions and lastly I hope that they can envision what those agents encountered and addressed in those hours and days following. A few moments of reflection can put a lot into perspective. Sorry if I have strayed from the topic. Today just affects me every year.

#942 Guest_leaderofthetards_*

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:03 AM

Posted for a friend Mr. Brandon who fears even logging onto CleanUp. Again, stopping the fear of the field in ATF would be a great place to start to improve morale......

"Mr Brandon and the members of the 2 new committes,
ATF previous managers have allowed far too many attys of the OCC to insert themselves and their agendas into every mission, every program, and every entity of the agency. This has lead to many of the problems you might read about on this site. Attys at DOJ decided this website was not to be viewed on ATF computers, as if the information were pornography or contained viruses. The only virus is the ATF OCC, which spread directly to most of management in HQ as they trusted their guidance on every issue, to include Fast and Furious.

Cleanhouse Mr Brandon or they will find loopholes to override your authority. Its a big job, which will likely be met with some resistance, but remember, some of the dumbest attys work for ATF so dont trust their advice on any legal or ethical issue until you consult a real attorney.

Signed, 26 years and counting"



Tom, this might be a good time to remind you of the state G. Elaine Smith left the BDO’s office in. This mirrors the shape she left some of your employees’ lives in. They have been left to wonder if they will have a job, health insurance for their kids, a pension, or even if they will be able to get another job if fired from ATF. This is also the very same woman who apparently forgot to even consider the ‘Douglas Factors’ in her decisions. The same woman who would refuse to accept exculpatory evidence that the agents developed after seeing how deficient their I.A. report was. Oh yes, she was a real peach that one, following the legacy of Loos and Rubenstein.

Tom, you need to look at whether or not Elaine Smith even took the time to review evidence or did she simply rubber stamp everything the PRB sent to her.

And FLEOA, where were you during G. Elaine Smith’s reign of terror? What steps did you take to expose what this woman was doing? Our understanding is that Larry Berger and G. Elaine were pretty chummy chummy. And agents, if Larry Berger is your attorney DO NOT, repeat DO NOT, let him talk you into signing a ‘Last Chance Agreement’ in order to have your case settled. Contact another attorney first so you will be advised of the implications of this when you return to work.

#943 Guest_Sandy Davis_*

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:38 PM

Posted for a friend Mr. Brandon who fears even logging onto CleanUp. Again, stopping the fear of the field in ATF would be a great place to start to improve morale......

"Mr Brandon and the members of the 2 new committes,
ATF previous managers have allowed far too many attys of the OCC to insert themselves and their agendas into every mission, every program, and every entity of the agency. This has lead to many of the problems you might read about on this site. Attys at DOJ decided this website was not to be viewed on ATF computers, as if the information were pornography or contained viruses. The only virus is the ATF OCC, which spread directly to most of management in HQ as they trusted their guidance on every issue, to include Fast and Furious.

Cleanhouse Mr Brandon or they will find loopholes to override your authority. Its a big job, which will likely be met with some resistance, but remember, some of the dumbest attys work for ATF so dont trust their advice on any legal or ethical issue until you consult a real attorney.

Signed, 26 years and counting"


#944 Thor God of Thunder

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:40 AM

Again, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Mr. Brandons reasons/excuses fall shot for the SOLE fact that it took NO time to restore SAC Crenshaw to his position. Yet Delgado, Berger and Litman had to expend their hard earned resources to keep their hard earned careers and NONE of them had any affairs with subordinates or used gov. Credit cards to facilitate said affairs with married subordinates. So, its time to fish or cut bait. Otherwise its nothing less that corrupt bureacratic paralysis. The field is NOT ignorant of the plays being made. To US, its not a game, its our life.No more protecting the old regime.



I agree!
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For Clean Up ATF!

#945 VINCENT A CEFALU

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:47 PM

Again, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Mr. Brandons reasons/excuses fall shot for the SOLE fact that it took NO time to restore SAC Crenshaw to his position. Yet Delgado, Berger and Litman had to expend their hard earned resources to keep their hard earned careers and NONE of them had any affairs with subordinates or used gov. Credit cards to facilitate said affairs with married subordinates. So, its time to fish or cut bait. Otherwise its nothing less that corrupt bureacratic paralysis. The field is NOT ignorant of the plays being made. To US, its not a game, its our life.No more protecting the old regime.
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#946 Swampdog

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:31 PM

My brother from another mother. Makes perfect since. Which means no one will even look at it. Northeast to southcentral......it makes sense. Raise the bar, go after how ever you can. Make cases, put people in prison. FLY THE FLAG.....this iis what we do.

#947 Patriot

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:12 PM

I am all about focusing on proactive violent crime. I think it is what we do best. I like to think of ATF as the one federal agency that addresses violent crime every day.The statistics show that ATF makes as many arrests yearly as the FBI with their vastly greater agent population. Couple that with the fact that the majority of our defendants are violent criminals, the taxpayer is getting a good return on their tax dollar, in spite of the mismanagement that purportedly guides us. PSN cases have their place in our strategy, but those cases are not as easy as some think and should not be passed out to TFO's. Out TFO's should be working proactive cases in their jurisdictions and I beleive their parent agencies would agree. As far as being an intellegence driven agency, I think we would have to have a working intellegence system. Right now I see Intel Groups as a useful tool to make sense of huge amounts of data, link people and events, and create visual presentations. I am not critisizing what they do, I just don't see it as a consistent program nationwide. NIBIN is a useful tool for our state and local partners, and yes, we did eliminate the NIBIN contractors, but why to we have to monitor how a police department follows up a hit. If we were serious about the NIBIN program we would run it in house. Put the IBIS machines in ATF space, hire technicians and provide the service to all outside law enforcement. That may ultimately prove to be more cost effective than funding systems that are not used, but left in place for political reasons. Offer the service to all law enforcement cost free and if an agency wants to maintain their own system, allow them to pay for it as well as for access to the network. Not sure if this in any way goes toward cleaning up ATF, but it is some thoughts on how to be more effective. Maybe a panel member will read this!!!!

#948 Winston Smith

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:04 AM

Shifting gears here. I'm not complaining, just asking questions.

I heard Mgmt. wants us to redirect our focus to working proactive violent crime cases, and to become an intelligence-driven investigative agency. Has anyone heard about how HQ plans to accomplish this? Some of what I heard involves: reducing the number of agents working adopted cases such as PSN, Exiles, and having TFO’s handle most of these; working more Title III cases; using NIBIN hits to generate leads on violent crime cases; implementing the intelligence-based firearms trafficking analysis initiative (iTrafficking) across the board; and increasing staffing of agents in Intel Groups. I’m sure there is much more to this.

Any thoughts on how the USAO will react to a reduced effort on Exile/PSN? Does anyone know the current status of the NIBIN program? Is it true that the NIBIN contractors were all victims of budget cuts and that we no longer have anyone handling the liaison with local/state PD’s to follow up on NIBIN hits? Are there any special initiatives or intel based programs at HQ that are addressing the recent spike in FFL burglaries across the country?

#949 Jaime3

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:40 AM

I totally agree Patriot!
The only thing that will make us "disgruntled" employees listen to this new lead is accountability and leading by example.

#950 Patriot

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:24 AM

I am guessing that the powers to be, have convinced themselves that by sending the SES's home, they will not need the post retirement move they are entitled to recieve. I would get a waiver in writing if I was the boss. The taxpayers deserve better management of their money by ATF. Of course no one will address continuity of the respective offices and the general attitude is that these guys are home and are not invested in the office. Why can't we adopt the military policy of succeed, move up or fail and move out.




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