IKE: My understanding of is that the funding that supplies those give aways comes either from the program direct budget where monies are appropriated for such purchases or from the general DOJ asset forfeiture account. When ATF/DEA/FBI/USMS seize assets from criminals they are placed in this general fund which the contributing agencies can utilize to pay for training, contractors, investigative expenses, etc. Just wanted to correct something that I stated before about firearm tracing. I stated e-trace provided the investigator with last known possessor. What I should have said was that e-trace provides that last "over the counter purchaser". I still think that firearm tracing is a great tool for federal, state and local police investigators. It has helped me in the past and continues to identify potential firearm traffickers.

At least Mueller is being honest and its so funny because its so true. I heard FBI agents are evaluated on their ability to cultivate 2 sources per month. Thats all they want them to do. Investigations of crimes is not a priority. I have heard some say that they wished the FBI would take over ATF's jurisdiction becuase they think they would act better. Have you ever heard of the proverb that you should be careful what you wish for you may just get it and good luck.

Here is a few ways to save $$$. 1: Get rid of SATO or Carson-Wagonlit or whatever the travel service is. Whats the fee 30 bucks every time you travel? And additional fees if you have to change your travel plans. What a scam. Agents could make their own travel plans better, cheaper and more efficently and save millions for US taxpayers. 2: Get rid of the stupid assessment center. What a joke and what a waste of money. Give a standard test and then do a panel interview if you make the BQL. The way it is right now SOME agents who belong to certain associations get the AC cheat sheet or get special training by the test makers to help them score better. ATF spent MILLIONS on this flawed selection process. Another knee jerk reaction to a lawsuit and another abject failure. We are so screwed up because of the knuckleheads we promote. I have known many great agents who did not pass the test or scored low. They dont move up the knucklehead does and maybe thats why we are allowing guns to walk into mexico.

Old Guy: Sounds like your friend did not exercise his right to take the matter into federal district court. I would have advised him of his right to do that and thereby be able to subpoena ATF personnel and records for defense of his license. Making a false written statement is a federal crime. Did he contact DOJ OIG? The US Attorney's office in his judicial district? Can you explain why he did not exercise his right to take the matter into federal district court?

IKE: You ask some valid questions. Example: A firearm is recovered by local police on the side of I-95. They run it in NCIC with negative result and have no other info on the firearm. E trace exists so that local police can find out the last known lawful possessor of the gun. Again it does not mean that the last lawful possessor did anything criminal, just a lead to follow. Maybe it was stolen but for some reason the owner did not record the serial number? Its hard to find a gun without a unique identifier like a serial #. Maybe by tracing it it could be returned to the rightful owner. Probably a good reason to trace the gun. Do you agree? There is also a NCIC code that is attached to each trace indicating in what type of situation that LE came into possession of the firearm. According to the Tiahart amendment trace data is restricted to LE for legit investigative purposes. I agree with you that I would not trust Mexican LE and would restrict their access to etrace. I dont even know if they have access to e-trace. However that decision is way above my paygrade. I dont think that LE personnel need to be told by a disclaimer that trace info is just information. They teach the definition of probable cause in every police academy in the US and your name on a trace report is not PC.

As a standard follow up to an inspection noting severe internal control problems/violations a warning conference is held. You should advise your friend to bring a lawyer and the documents from ATF that you are referring too in your posting. At this time a response/explanation to the noted violations is discussed and considered. Any violation deemed unsupported by findings can be eliminated. Any formal complaint alleging retaliation against the FFL can be also be discussed with the ATF division counsel or OPRSO. If you don't want to report to ATF directly contact the DOJ inspector general's office and file a complaint. Any inappropriate/unprofessional conduct must be identified and corrected, however if the violations are valid then it kind of is what it is. In my experience there are two sides to every story. ATF is used to operating in a environment where it has to justify any corrective action it takes against an FFL. Therefore ATF puts its findings in writing uses documentation to support its violation report. Hope this helps.

IKE: think you are misrepresenting how ATF uses trace data at the investigative level. Firearm tracing is simply an investigative tool to identify trends. Trends are not evidence of a crime. It takes an agent/analyst to investigate to see if there is any criminal conduct going on. No one is identified as a suspect in a criminal investigation based only on his/her FFL or purchase being involved/associated in a trace. Interesting that you come to the conclusion that Mexican authorities are corrupt. Perhaps that was a factor in why operation fast and furious was conducted without the Mexican authorities being involved.

SPARTACUS I commend you for your articulate commentary. Thank you!

Dear Dr. Frankenstein (Webmaster): Its obvious that respecting other peoples point of view is NOT a core principle espoused by you or your website. Since there are no first amendment rights on your privately owned website I would encourage you to overtly post that on your opening banner. No wonder most managers don't want to participate in the discussion even though your website encourages their participation. You would just jump down their throat and call them liars, cowards, etc. Who would want that? This is just your own little bitch board. No solutions are sought out here. You are just trying to embarrass us all, not bring meaningful change. And by the way since what you put on here or "allow" on this site may someday effect my agency and career, I think I am entitled to express my own opinion to show those who are not in ATF who may visit that there is a divergence of opinion on how best to handle things. Have you ever considered that your methods are wrong? Have you considered that your actions might hurt innocent people? I think most fair minded people who read your responses to my previous posts and others would characterize you as a person blinded by anger. You could be doing just as much damage to ATF as the managers in HQ and DOJ that authorized "Fast and Furious" and other debacles. I wish you would just consider that but I don't think you will. I don't think anger and rage persuade others or change minds they only intimidate people and create fear. It seems apparent to me that you are moving closer to becoming THEM because you lost sight of US and who we are. I'm not advocating cover ups or lying, but I think there has to be a more civilized discourse within ATF, especially on a website where discussion is encouraged on the opening banner. If this post gets on your forum I would encourage all ATF personnel who care about ATF to boycott this site. Its really not a place to rationally exchange ideas or discuss different perspectives or find solutions. It seems to me that it is only the creation of a person who needs something to control. Hope you have fun Dr. Frankenstein playing with your monster.... till you can't control it anymore and it turns on you.

Well I am glad you have it all figured out. I now can sleep better at night, again thanks. No one will know how this plays until it does so we are ALL guessing on this website. Since you are not a disinterested party I cant rely on just your version of the facts. Anyone can post here and say whatever they want. But don't talk down to me or suggest that you have a monopoly on the facts. I hope I am wrong about the benefit of this website. I want this agency to be what is should be. Not filled with discontented and demoralized agents beaten down by bureaucrats and political hacks. I understand your anger, been there. Was angry for many years about my situation and the situation of others just trying to do the right thing. But you know what, that anger begins to really consume your life. Almost cost me my marriage. Eventually you have to let it go, the anger I mean. For me I figured out that if I can get up every day and go to work with the mindset of doing what I knew to be right, then I was winning the fight. To me keeping faith with my brothers and sister agents and supporting them day to day is my mission now. Small victories is all I work for now. What is the solution? I wish I could give you a good answer. I know the frustration and despair all too well. I just know that those in this country who want to do away with us will use this website to further their own agenda and pervert the good we do every day. God bless and best wishes to you, I hope you find the justice you seek.

IKE: Sorry to hear your personal experience with ATF has been negative. I will say that day to day I try very hard to keep a positive working relationship with all of the FFL's in my area. They can be great allies in identifying and intercepting traffickers. However, in my area I only have one FFL who regularly calls me when he/she suspects a problem purchaser. The rest sell the gun and then call. Well maybe. Thats just the reality of regulating the gun industry. We all know the blatant trafficking scenarios like large purchases of black guns. But more commonly in my area FFLs do stupid or unlawful things like telling a guy that gets denied by NICS that he cant sell HIM the gun but it would not be unlawful for him to sell it to his wife, or friend. Or the FFL that takes in and sells used guns without ever running them through his/her books, no paper = more money from someone looking for an off paper deal. More often than not stuff like that is just one greedy partner trying to hide money from another. This is more common than you might think and it seems to be happening more and more in my area lately. I know the profit margin on new guns is minimal and times are tough but we need to work together. I judge every FFL individually and consider them as a partner in making sure bad guys don't get guns until their actions prove otherwise. As for ATF on the IOI side goes I have seen them bend over backwards to NOT revoke licenses when we on the CE side believe that the dealer should be out of business. Hey if you cant account for dozens of firearms and have no idea where they went to in my opinion you really should not be in business. But I have seen these people get a second and sometimes a third chance before action is taken and then IO usually allows them to surrender their FFL sparing them a revocation. So lets not say ATF is unreasonable with FFL's. I have seen it from both sides. Like I said I cant speak to your personal experience but we are a small agency (by design you see, thanks NRA!) and have learned that in general be nice, you usually get farther that way. Also, I have NEVER seen nor heard in over 10 years of service, ATF referring a case or any US Attorney criminally prosecuting any FFL for technical violations like IKE cites. If that has happened I would like to know about it. Seriously, I would. Please post the case info. Sometimes I have trouble getting felons/other prohibited persons caught red handed with firearms prosecuted in a timely manner due to the sheer number of cases referred. Things must be really slow in that area or there is more to the story. As for the Mexican trace stats. I remember watching one of our DAD's on tv once being interviewed about Mexican trace info. He said that 90% of the guns that were SUCCESSFULLY TRACED, traced back to the US to mostly FFLs on the border. I know, I heard with my own ears. What you heard I cant say. If you are confused by that I am sorry but it kinda made sense to me at the time. Wishing you well and hopefully letting you see a glimpse of what I see. Thank you.

Gotta say you guys are pretty lost thinking that you are saving ATF. You are not. John Boy is right about that. There are many of us in the field who question the wisdom of the topics posted on this website. You may not want to believe it but thats the reality. I will say I have laughed my ass of from time to time reading some of the stuff posted on this website. You know, the who's hitting on who stuff, rumors, etc. I find it rather entertaining, so thank you. So my question to the moderator/administrator is whats your endgame? What do you hope to accomplish? No disrespect to you but what has changed since you started this website? Well except for a lot of bad press nothing. NOTHING! I know it may be hard to accept but the only way to change things is to engage with the people you hammer mercilessly every day. All of your anger and frustration is never going to change things in a positive way. It just breeds more resentment on both sides and further degrades our agency culture. Nothing will get resolved, or improve in this environment. Do you really think Hoover, Chait or Melson are going to resign because of this website? Or take any advice from it? Thats truly "pissing in the wind". It might make you feel good right now but its not making anything better long term. Hey, you pay for this site out of your own pocket, have at it, hammer away. Feel better? I really don't think you will. Someday you may wake up and regret the unintended consequences of your actions. Hope you all will go out of pocket to help the new guys and gals that get RIF notices when the truth gets twisted and used to dismantle ATF. Thanks for allowing me to post this.