1315 replies to this topic

[The Shadow]

The message HQ is sending to the field is loud and clear, cover-up and lie for management, at worst, you just get a letter. Tell the truth and get hammered. And isn’t Jay reporting misconduct in this memo? Maybe we have this all wrong. Instead of expecting management to apply the Crenshaw Standard to us, maybe we should all follow Crenshaw’s lead and just play it safe by lying and not reporting misconduct. I wonder if we get extra points if we have sex with our secretary? Honestly, I just wish someone in HQ would clarify the rules to this nasty game we find ourselves forced to play.

AT one time there was guidance in ATF Order 2130.1 – Conduct and Accountability. 2. RESPONSIBILITIES. Managers and supervisors are expected to serve as role models for all Bureau employees and, by their actions, set standards for appropriate behavior. Employees are required to know the standards and rules of conduct and to seek clarification from their supervisors when doubt exists.

Based on the history of unpunished deeds by ATF managers and supervisors, acceptable role model behavior apparently: includes using the government credit card for personal gain, personal relationships with subordinate females within your immediate chain of command, use of government vehicles to stimulate the economy at strip clubs, smuggling firearms on aircraft for professional athletes, use of ATF personnel as free bodyguards for personal friends, frequent memory losses of on duty incidents without lack of candor charges, self authoring magazine articles that divulged ATF covert recording equipment, alerting the media to ATF covert investigative training/techniques, destroying public safety equipment for personal gain, sleeping on duty, etc., etc., etc...

[FUBAR]

The message HQ is sending to the field is loud and clear, cover-up and lie for management, at worst, you just get a letter. Tell the truth and get hammered. And isn’t Jay reporting misconduct in this memo? Maybe we have this all wrong. Instead of expecting management to apply the Crenshaw Standard to us, maybe we should all follow Crenshaw’s lead and just play it safe by lying and not reporting misconduct. I wonder if we get extra points if we have sex with our secretary? Honestly, I just wish someone in HQ would clarify the rules to this nasty game we find ourselves forced to play.

Yes, Coolhand, no one paying attention here.

Ok, Madea is confused. Is this yet another incident of an employee disciplined for telling the truth? Is HQ confused between telling the truth and lack of candor? This appears to be just another effort by Todd and Tom to intimidate. Way to go Tom. Good job Todd.

Oh, by the way Tom, Madea was just at a meeting for the southwest side of Detroit. The subject of gun violence came up and the lack of law enforcement. Don’t worry, several of the moderators assured the residents that agencies within the DOJ would soon be arriving to save the day. Be sure to distribute the limited addition Mighty Mouse iphones to the agents in Detroit. We can’t wait for the help. And please Tom, make sure this time that ATF takes the guns AWAY from the criminals instead of giving more guns TO them. By the way Tom, no one from your Detroit office was at the meeting. You may want to remind them that their cars have headlights. Thanks again Tom for your fine job in Detroit.

Jay, since Tom will likely be your BDO, I’m sure this will all go away. Remember the Crenshaw Standard. According to an initial decision that we received from the MSPB, Kelvin had several charges including lack of candor and failure to report misconduct. And of course, we all know what Kelvin got, NOTHING but a letter. Yes sir, Captain Underpants got out his cape and flew right back to work. I’m sure Tom will clear this all up for you Jay. And please Jay, when you see Tom, would you ask him if he has found package #1 yet? Remember, that employee told the truth too.

[Cool Hand]

Oh yeah, an entire agency can formally call out the executive cadre for integrity problems with no corrective action whatsoever...but speak your mind out of turn...or stand up to a bully...and justice is mighty swift. Yes, Dobyns was spanked in the interest of discipline and good order, but he was paddled by a management club hell bent on protecting their own and willing to LIE to do so at the drop of a hat. Go ahead sirs, cover for your 15's and SES'ers - no one in the field is noticing. And gosh, even if the politicians make you discipline a few executives in these coming months, you'll figure out some way to take care of them behind the scenes.

[Iceman]

THE BELOW EMAIL SENT BY SPECIAL AGENT JAY DOBYNS, ANNOUNCING HIS PLANNED RETIREMENT, RESULTED IN HIS RECEIVING A 5 DAY PROPOSED SUSPENSION FROM THE ADFO TODAY. YEP, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, THE ADFO. YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP.

Yet another agency legend will not stay to help rebuild. Yet another hero, GONE. How many more of our Senior Agents and Inspectors will leave the agency aka the sinking ship before Congress and DOJ act. Jay is just ONE of many. Tragic turn of events. Soon will be posting a listing of who our leadership has disgusted so badly, that their experience and wisdom are LOST FOREVER. Jay is JUST ONE, THERE ARE MANY. Most would concur that elevating John Torres in any form or fashion is ONE of the more despicable actions in recent history. The following was sent through the entire chain of command up to and including DD Brandon.

Gentlemen,

As I have, I am continuing with my transparency. The addressees are my chain of command

Today, I submitted to ATF my proposed retirement date of November 19, 2012.

November 19 is personally significant to me because it is the 25-year anniversary of when I was shot. I am 50 and already have 25 years of service so I could leave at anytime and be fine. I chose this date because I want to leave on my terms and on the anniversary of the greatest day of my career; the day I learned the hard way to get up, fight back and act like an ATF Agent.


There is no one single factor that was used in my decision but, one significant factor is Mr. Jones’s full and over-the-top embracing and support of John Torres.


This is likely insignificant or unnoticed to/by you but it is overwhelmingly powerful to me.


With Mr. Jones recent public comments and decisions related to Torres and in comparison with the way I have been, and am being treated, it is clear that there is no place at ATF for Jay Dobyns but there is a respected and applauded place for Torres.


Whether intentional or unintentional, Mr. Jones has made that clear.


We all know who JT is and what he is about. He has been found guilty of discrimination in San Francisco, committed fraud, waste and abuse, killed moral, retaliated against agents, broke and manipulated the rules and has been a negative presence in every single position he has held.



He has threatened and intimidated civilians. His citizen’s academy was his personal promotion to Hollywood using ATF’s dime to advance his individual goals. His hoax was on HQ. He routinely lies to his upward chain of command and intimidates and retaliates against those below him. His agents across the board in Phoenix, San Fran and LA despise him to a level of hatred unheard of at ATF. He did everything he could to slow, hinder and obstruct the great cases made on his watch in LA and then was the first to jump on the podium for the press conference. He is counterfeit. He is a fraud.



On a personal note, first, he is a coward and a sociopathic liar. He did his best to frame me as mentally unfit for duty. He went proactive to deny my participation in two federal RICO trials and obstructed justice. He harassed and retaliated against me to no end as an LAFD employee. He is guilty of multiple policy violations, ones he has been given a pass on yet ATF is suing me for upwards of $500K for lesser alleged conduct. He lied countless times in his deposition in my case and did so without batting an eye. Since being in HQ he has harassed others simply for being friends with me and a few other great agents that he also hates in LA.



Good or bad, love me or hate me, I never one time ever, set out to hurt anyone. I’ve spilled blood for this agency and came back for more over and over and over. I never took and always gave to ATF to a level that is unmatched. The professional worlds and ethics of people like JT and me collide and the JT’s are the ones who get taken care of. This is in no way the ATF I know or care to be a part of.



Mr. Jones could not say JT’s name enough times in El Paso, over and over praising his sacrifice to come to HQ and his contributions to OSII. He did the same thing in Phoenix last week. He appointed JT to act as his personal representative and stand in for a presentation during the upcoming Law Enforcement Week honoring fallen ATF Agents. Are you kidding me? That is the ultimate arrogant insult to all of ATF and especially those of us in the field. Regardless of how the Director feels about him, I personally refused to even shake his hand in El Paso and I did so in front of all of you. You may be able to play nice with him, my dignity won’t allow me to. I handled that in the most integrity I could muster because if I would have spoken it would have gotten very ugly and I did not want to subject anyone to that.



On the other hand the Director could barely speak a word to me in El Paso and was clearly pained to even have to shake my hand, which he tried to avoid but I cornered him anyway. Mr. Jones has stood back and allowed ATF and DOJ attorneys to rape me in legal process all the while putting an arm around JT. When I see and hear his ChangeCast messages they personally come off to me as nothing more that feel-good rhetoric without substance and an insulting underestimation of those of us in the field.



I don’t expect any of this to mean anything to any of you. On the other side, Mr. Jones treatment of me as compared to JT is so unjust that the writing is on the wall and that does mean a lot to me. It has never been more clear. There is always a place for the JT’s of ATF to find comfort and there is no place to hide for the Jay Dobyns’s of ATF to seek refuge.



Mr. Jones may not know this but he lost huge points and support in El Paso and Phoenix by making it a point to shove his love of JT down everyone’s throat. If he doesn’t realize that then his ears are closed. JT may have bamboozled the Director but the rest of us are smarter than that. The Director’s ignorance of facts and history is embarrassing for him.



I will spend the rest of my days here trying to serve ATF. Tom A and Carlos, I will run through a block wall for you guys, no questions asked. You have taken a stand to openly and proactively support me when that is a very unpopular position to take. I know it and you know it. That will never be forgotten or unappreciated by me and my family. You have my loyalty to the end and beyond. I am in your debt.



On the flip side JT will spend the rest of his career lying, manipulating the system, enhancing his resume and taking everything he can get from everyone who will give it. He is the worst of what ATF has to offer and that is what gets rewarded in today’s ATF. My vocabulary is not strong enough to come up with a more powerful word than “disgusted”.



When our executives are afraid to talk to an agent or unwilling to simply do the right thing because some attorney who never did the job tells them they can’t, that is most discouraging. All the surface and fake nice-nice is a joke.



My decision is not so much about JT, that was just the last-straw trigger for me. The message is clear both spoken and unspoken, it is time for me to go.



I don’t want a response or reply. This is just me telling you guys where I stand and what my intentions are and keep my word on remaining transparent.



Jay Dobyns

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Regarding Changecast# 4, WE ARE NOT THE DOJ VIOLENT CRIME BUREAU. THAT IS YOU STRATEGIC PLAN? TALK ABOUT OVER SIMPLIFYING THE FUNCTIONS OF THE GREATEST LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY EVER ASSEMBLED. We are the BUREAU OF ATF. Always have been always will be. Our regulatory function is critical to our success. Although our impact is clearly on the public safety, we do SO much more than just arrest violent thugs. Playing nice with others is a two way street. When other agencies needlessly force their way into areas they know NOTHING about, they invariably are NOT playing nice. And when our leadership rolls over so as NOT to piss off those other agency's and maybe negatively impact their own upward mobility, they encourage disrespect of our great agency. Does our leadership need to be reminded that you essentially gave away our explosive jurisdiction. And don't say it was a fight we couldn't win. We couldn't win because we never showed up for the fight.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Here it is Madea.  clearanceltr4120001.pdf   73.35KB   28 downloads

ATTENTION: Everyone please take the time to download and copy Vince’s clearance letter (the letter is 7 posts down in this same thread). The original purpose of CleanUp was to SHARE information and documents. We cannot be the Central Bank Depository for all this information. You need to take some responsibility for covering your own asses. Vince’s clearance letter is I.A.’s permission for you post and state your opinions about this mess ATF “leaders” have created. Take this clearance letter, file it, and start posting your opinions again. As a matter of fact, you might want to get a large file. We will have more for you to download shortly.

BACK OFF JULIE TORRES. STOP hunting for “misconduct” and clean up your own mess in I.A. By the way Julie, I would have loved to have discussed this privately with you, but YOU BLOCKED MY NUMBER.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Perhaps our NEW NEW leadership believes that our young new inexperienced work force who have not been properly trained in many cases, (ASAC Jeff Vind lamented to me personally) that we just don't have enough senior agents to train them. "They'll be fine". When I pointed out that 25+ Agents had left the San Francisco field division in a 5 year period under the reign of Torres, Vido and Martin, DAD Mark Chait stated in front of 100 employees that he wasn't aware of that. And Mr. Melson sat there with his mouth open while then SAC Herkins sang out praises for Mr. Melsons leadership. This was approx 3 months prior to Ken Melson being removed as our Acting Director for starting to tell the truth to Congress on a secret interview on the 4th of July. And it was approx. 8 months before SAC Herkins was replaced. Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon and Turk, in the Investigation business we call that a CLUE.It saddens me about Jay because he is my friend. BUT it saddens me about the dozens of GOOD, NO GREAT Agents, Supervisors and Inspectors who have left and taken a part of ATF with them. But at least John Torres, Mark Chait, Bill Newll, Voth, McMahon,Potter, Martin and Hoover are still here to continue their stellar contributions for "The FUTURE".

Jay, I read your posting and simply cannot find the appropriate words to express how I fell about your announced departure from ATF. The statement you made is certainly accurate about the state of the agency at this time. So sorry to hear you are leaving, but you join a long list of highly accomplished agents who have walked out of the agency in disgust. I left early. What I saw turned my stomach to the point that I could not make it to retirement. It’s amazing that you lasted in this agency long enough to retire. It’s clear that ATF has made several attempts to drive you off early. However, you outsmarted them. Unfortunately, so many agents have not been as lucky as you. So many were either fired for false reasons or driven to the point where they couldn’t take it anymore. So many outstanding ATF agents have ended their careers on Worker’s Comp or left for another agency. Those agents were not even given a word of thanks for their hard work. Please don’t expect anything from the individuals “leading” ATF at this time. Sorry to hear you’re leaving, but when you walk out, make sure they see your 25 year pin prominently displayed on your ass. Madea says, “Good job”.

Jay, always keep in mind the wisdom of the Tao, “Only fools seek power, and the greatest fools seek it through force”.

[Iceman]

Yet another agency legend will not stay to help rebuild. Yet another hero, GONE. How many more of our Senior Agents and Inspectors will leave the agency aka the sinking ship before Congress and DOJ act. Jay is just ONE of many. Tragic turn of events. Soon will be posting a listing of who our leadership has disgusted so badly, that their experience and wisdom are LOST FOREVER. Jay is JUST ONE, THERE ARE MANY. Most would concur that elevating John Torres in any form or fashion is ONE of the more despicable actions in recent history. The following was sent through the entire chain of command up to and including DD Brandon.

Gentlemen,

As I have, I am continuing with my transparency. The addressees are my chain of command

Today, I submitted to ATF my proposed retirement date of November 19, 2012.

November 19 is personally significant to me because it is the 25-year anniversary of when I was shot. I am 50 and already have 25 years of service so I could leave at anytime and be fine. I chose this date because I want to leave on my terms and on the anniversary of the greatest day of my career; the day I learned the hard way to get up, fight back and act like an ATF Agent.


There is no one single factor that was used in my decision but, one significant factor is Mr. Jones’s full and over-the-top embracing and support of John Torres.


This is likely insignificant or unnoticed to/by you but it is overwhelmingly powerful to me.


With Mr. Jones recent public comments and decisions related to Torres and in comparison with the way I have been, and am being treated, it is clear that there is no place at ATF for Jay Dobyns but there is a respected and applauded place for Torres.


Whether intentional or unintentional, Mr. Jones has made that clear.


We all know who JT is and what he is about. He has been found guilty of discrimination in San Francisco, committed fraud, waste and abuse, killed moral, retaliated against agents, broke and manipulated the rules and has been a negative presence in every single position he has held.



He has threatened and intimidated civilians. His citizen’s academy was his personal promotion to Hollywood using ATF’s dime to advance his individual goals. His hoax was on HQ. He routinely lies to his upward chain of command and intimidates and retaliates against those below him. His agents across the board in Phoenix, San Fran and LA despise him to a level of hatred unheard of at ATF. He did everything he could to slow, hinder and obstruct the great cases made on his watch in LA and then was the first to jump on the podium for the press conference. He is counterfeit. He is a fraud.



On a personal note, first, he is a coward and a sociopathic liar. He did his best to frame me as mentally unfit for duty. He went proactive to deny my participation in two federal RICO trials and obstructed justice. He harassed and retaliated against me to no end as an LAFD employee. He is guilty of multiple policy violations, ones he has been given a pass on yet ATF is suing me for upwards of $500K for lesser alleged conduct. He lied countless times in his deposition in my case and did so without batting an eye. Since being in HQ he has harassed others simply for being friends with me and a few other great agents that he also hates in LA.



Good or bad, love me or hate me, I never one time ever, set out to hurt anyone. I’ve spilled blood for this agency and came back for more over and over and over. I never took and always gave to ATF to a level that is unmatched. The professional worlds and ethics of people like JT and me collide and the JT’s are the ones who get taken care of. This is in no way the ATF I know or care to be a part of.



Mr. Jones could not say JT’s name enough times in El Paso, over and over praising his sacrifice to come to HQ and his contributions to OSII. He did the same thing in Phoenix last week. He appointed JT to act as his personal representative and stand in for a presentation during the upcoming Law Enforcement Week honoring fallen ATF Agents. Are you kidding me? That is the ultimate arrogant insult to all of ATF and especially those of us in the field. Regardless of how the Director feels about him, I personally refused to even shake his hand in El Paso and I did so in front of all of you. You may be able to play nice with him, my dignity won’t allow me to. I handled that in the most integrity I could muster because if I would have spoken it would have gotten very ugly and I did not want to subject anyone to that.



On the other hand the Director could barely speak a word to me in El Paso and was clearly pained to even have to shake my hand, which he tried to avoid but I cornered him anyway. Mr. Jones has stood back and allowed ATF and DOJ attorneys to rape me in legal process all the while putting an arm around JT. When I see and hear his ChangeCast messages they personally come off to me as nothing more that feel-good rhetoric without substance and an insulting underestimation of those of us in the field.



I don’t expect any of this to mean anything to any of you. On the other side, Mr. Jones treatment of me as compared to JT is so unjust that the writing is on the wall and that does mean a lot to me. It has never been more clear. There is always a place for the JT’s of ATF to find comfort and there is no place to hide for the Jay Dobyns’s of ATF to seek refuge.



Mr. Jones may not know this but he lost huge points and support in El Paso and Phoenix by making it a point to shove his love of JT down everyone’s throat. If he doesn’t realize that then his ears are closed. JT may have bamboozled the Director but the rest of us are smarter than that. The Director’s ignorance of facts and history is embarrassing for him.



I will spend the rest of my days here trying to serve ATF. Tom A and Carlos, I will run through a block wall for you guys, no questions asked. You have taken a stand to openly and proactively support me when that is a very unpopular position to take. I know it and you know it. That will never be forgotten or unappreciated by me and my family. You have my loyalty to the end and beyond. I am in your debt.



On the flip side JT will spend the rest of his career lying, manipulating the system, enhancing his resume and taking everything he can get from everyone who will give it. He is the worst of what ATF has to offer and that is what gets rewarded in today’s ATF. My vocabulary is not strong enough to come up with a more powerful word than “disgusted”.



When our executives are afraid to talk to an agent or unwilling to simply do the right thing because some attorney who never did the job tells them they can’t, that is most discouraging. All the surface and fake nice-nice is a joke.



My decision is not so much about JT, that was just the last-straw trigger for me. The message is clear both spoken and unspoken, it is time for me to go.



I don’t want a response or reply. This is just me telling you guys where I stand and what my intentions are and keep my word on remaining transparent.



Jay Dobyns

[abteilung]

You forgot to mention the pinky rings, cool "English" cufflinks and other accessories that our Mgt adorns these days. Seriously, we need to start a thread with pictures showing the fashion trends of our agency's leaders.

Boy, that does description fit a boss in my division to a "T." The suits are still empty though.

[Winston Smith]

You forgot to mention the pinky rings, cool "English" cufflinks and other accessories that our Mgt adorns these days. Seriously, we need to start a thread with pictures showing the fashion trends of our agency's leaders.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

For those of you who are tracking the thuggish use of Internal Affairs over the last few years related to intimidating those who dare to posses opinions counter to the previous leadership...review the attached clearance letter from the PRB. Keep in mind, to get to this letter, the taxpayers paid for two GS-14 Special Agents' airfare, lodging, rental car and per diem, (not to mention valuable man-hours that could be used to investigate management perjury, lying before congress, discrimination, retaliation, etc., etc., etc.). There were also the man-hours dedicated by PRB members. This was an "ADMINISTRATIVE" investigation (their words, not mine), initiated by an ASAC, directed by the SAC of one of the most poorly run and decimated field divisions in the country.

My advice to the ASAC who thought this was a good use of our agency resources..."Maybe pay more attention to fixing your broken field division than retaliating against me".

Attached Files

•  clearanceltr4120001.pdf   73.35KB   59 downloads

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

ATF has yet ANOTHER diversity committee. Looking around, ATF seems to be pretty diverse right now, but its always good to ensure it stays that way. BUT, is Elenor Loos REALLY an appropriate member of said committee? Remember the famed position she maintained when Ass. Chief Counsel for Ethics and Administration? "The EEOC is just a bitching platform". REALLY Msrs. Jones, Brandon and Turk. REALLY? I mean REALLY? Wasn't she removed from her position for that very reason?

DAD John Torres is also a member? REALLY Msrs. Jones, Brandon and Turk? REALLY? You will recall there was a FORMAL finding of discrimination against John Torres when he was SAC of San Francisco. This is a terminate-able offense, but he was NOT terminated. He has been alleged to have violated a slew of perjury, obstruction of justice and gross mismanagement laws and rules, and is arguably one of the MOST abusive SACs in the history of the Agency, and you thought it was a good idea for him to weigh in on our diversity because????????

We are NOT unreasonable and we are NOT asking for the world. BUT, we cannot set the bar so low that the BOP has a better track record than us. Just sayin!!!!!! Common sense goes a LONG way with the field.

Finally, Msrs. Jones, Brandon, and Turk, PLEASE put the FAAPs findings related to Chief Counsels abuses back up. Its the right thing to do. Anything less lacks any transparency. THEY are NOT exempt from accountability just because they are lawyers.

[Patriot]

Martin's response is just another way of saying nothing changes. It is business as usual. Here is an idea ATF, instead of moving an obviously unqualified person at taxpayer expense into the job, temporarily promote one of the in place ASAC's to the position. They cannot be any less qualified and you have saved a boatload of money. Until such time as conventional approaches to the selection process are changed, we will continue to promote incompetance and drive another nail in ATF's coffin.

[Retired and loving it]

Joe Riehl single handedly tanked our arson and explosives program and our NRT reputation. Set us back decades under his stellar leadership, and what do they do, PROMOTE HIM. The SFFD is circling the toilet in the aftermath of Torres, Vido, Martin and Gleysteen, and this is their best effort? DAD Steve Martins response, "Have you seen what we have to choose from"? Weak excuse!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Steve Martin thinks there is a poor lot from which to choose, just wait as it's only going to get worse. All of the good upcomers are looking for jobs in agency that has some decent management and leadership. ATF hasn't had that for at least a decade and the current regime is as bad or worse than the past ones.

Better retire quickly Steve!

[Iceman]

Joe Riehl single handedly tanked our arson and explosives program and our NRT reputation. Set us back decades under his stellar leadership, and what do they do, PROMOTE HIM. The SFFD is circling the toilet in the aftermath of Torres, Vido, Martin and Gleysteen, and this is their best effort? DAD Steve Martins response, "Have you seen what we have to choose from"? Weak excuse!!!!!!!!!!!!

More like one step forward, two steps back.

[x1811]

Two steps forward and one step back. Everytime I am ready to applaud a positive move, a big disappointment emerges. Joe Riehl, SAC San Francisco? A guy who is the subject of an IG report on the mismanagement of the NRT and has almost singlehandedly driven our explosives program into a wall.

More like one step forward, two steps back.

[Patriot]

Two steps forward and one step back. Everytime I am ready to applaud a positive move, a big disappointment emerges. Joe Riehl, SAC San Francisco? A guy who is the subject of an IG report on the mismanagement of the NRT and has almost singlehandedly driven our explosives program into a wall.

[GunnyT]

I applaud the most recent ASAC select ions. I don't know either personally but I understand they are both competent and and tested 14s. Great job to the selecting officials, but I also understand that there were 4 other ASAC jobs that only one, two and maybe ZERO people applied for. If true this is very sad. Incompetent management and the corrupt selections practices of the past have ground down the will of our most senior, qualified, and competent GS14 from even raising their hand to step up to these key (ASAC) leadership positions!

A good topic for a survey Mr Todd and Mr. Brandon. Why are our most capable 14s unwilling to raise their hands and put in for these position? Our days as an agency, sadly, may be waning.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Remember when we WERE a family? When an Agent was threatened or attacked, the calvary was sent? Kind of like when Jay Dobyns house was burnt to the ground, BUT DIFFERENT. When somebody had a tragic situation ON or OFF the job, we sent a army of peer support and friends to make sure they came out the other end ok. I guess its different when the agency itself is responsible for the damage. This is what comes from promoting guys and gals who havent paid their dues, and havent been trained and have not been initiated into ATF culture. We used to care. Remember?

I’m hearing some ridiculous ATF propaganda that I would like to correct. The study done by Docpowderpuff was NOT done with ATF management’s consent. Are you kidding? Does anyone really believe that ATF would have condoned such a study in ANY way? Hell, I.A. is probably trying to hunt the people down who participated in the study as I write. Let’s use some common sense here. ATF has a long history of keeping their very toxic managers in place. These managers not only brought us Waco and F&F, but they have destroyed many many employees psychologically. ATF doesn’t want these employees studied anymore than they want the suicides hitting the news.

So no, please do not think for a second that ATF management cares about the people they’ve tried to destroy. It was CleanUp that Docpowderpuff came to in order to conduct this study, NOT ATF management. Whoever is repeating this propaganda, needs to stop it. If you’ve been with ATF for more than a week, you’re embarrassing yourself.

[Zorro]

The Bureau has reviewed your request for the return of your duty weapon and creds and is denying it based on the fact that you are not actively working cases.

Not actively working cases.... where to start? If that is the new standard, lots of creds and guns need to be collected.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Mr. Jones and Brandon,
FYI, I am troubled by the number of calls and emails I STILL receive from current and potential EEOC, Whistleblower complainants who are distraught, and suffering severe physical, emotional and financial damages and are STILL afraid to come forward. Many of them are down trodden, and despodent. I have repeatedly advised them to contact the EAP, Ombudsman and you gentleman directly. Several have said that they have with NO reponse. I repectfully suggest you get the Jeff Ryan file and review the circumstances and managements actions leading up to his suicide. I have a lawful copy, which is about 12 inches thick. Of course I CANNOT provide you with it b c Chief counsel got its usual protective order hoping to keep the details and any connection between the agencys actions and his suicide silent.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

This is just CLASSIC. As many of you have read, I attemptd to communicate very respectfully and to the point, TWICE in two months to Mr. Jones and Mr. Brandon. The substance of my communication was simple......Sirs either fire me or give me my gun and badge back, my 25 years deserve that. THE RESPONSE:

FROM my 8th DOO in 4 1/2 yrs...... Hi Vince, I am XXXXXXXXX, I am the new DOO in San Francisco. I will be your new supervisor and POC for the division. The Bureau has reviewed your request for the return of your duty weapon and creds and is denying it based on the fact that you are not actively working cases. WTF? I REPEAT WTF?

My response, and CC'd up the ENTIRE chain of command: Hey boss, just thinking out loud, but let me get this straight. The bureau wont let me work cases, so I cant have my tools back which are required for me to work cases, which the Bureau is not allowing me to do(for over ten months, stairing at walls). So I cant have my gun and badge because I cant work cases, because I dont have my gun and badges because I cant work cases because I dont have my gun and badges because I cant work cases?

Wondering if Crenshaw, the F and F bunch and the hoards of PROVEN corrupt managers have their gun and badges? I'm hoping it's NOT because Gleysteen and Downs got ahold of these badges too.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Well said. I too remember THAT SAC publishing the "slug" list. I thought it was hilarious.

I too applaud Mr. Brandon for not only his decision to publish the FAAP report, but the swiftness with which he made the decision. I do not think he should be overly concerned with offending anyone. Chances are, if you were offended by something in the recommendations you were part of the problem to begin with. About a hundred years ago, I worked for a SAC that published quarterly stats for every agent in the Division. The only people who thought it was a bad idea were the agents with zeros next to their name. In retrospect he may have been ahead of his time when it comes to transparency in management.

[Patriot]

I too applaud Mr. Brandon for not only his decision to publish the FAAP report, but the swiftness with which he made the decision. I do not think he should be overly concerned with offending anyone. Chances are, if you were offended by something in the recommendations you were part of the problem to begin with. About a hundred years ago, I worked for a SAC that published quarterly stats for every agent in the Division. The only people who thought it was a bad idea were the agents with zeros next to their name. In retrospect he may have been ahead of his time when it comes to transparency in management.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

JOB WELL DONE, to ALL of our Agents in Richmond, Ca. We are ALL glad you went home safe. Great job by the locals with you. Stay safe, and keep on keepin on. Semper Fi.

[Doc Holiday]

2 things. First, Mr. Brandon put out an all hands message regarding the Field Agent meeting and topics. Details should probably stay internal. But as Mr. Brandon pointed out, there was MUCH dissension among certain executives and attorneys about posting this information for all to see. He did the right thing and made his own decision. And yes it stings. Yes it doesn't bode well for the previous/remaining corrupted leadership. Too bad. At least ONE man understands what transparency is and is willing to take his medicine in the process and its gonna be a long one. NOW on to actions.

There is absolutely NO reason to bring the committee to HQ for another group hug until Mr. Brandon, Turk and Jones pull the trigger by levying accountability on at least the WORSE abusers, make the people who have been so badly damaged whole,(thereby showing a willingness to totally FIX whats broken, and send a clear and public message to ALL, Agents, Inspectors and Bosses alike, that it ends now. Otherwise, don't even try, because the ONLY hope is action. A couple gestures are not enough. Start with rescinding Larry Fords one year transfer to Chicago. There is nothing to be gained in terms of the mission by sending him there to puff up, lay the ground work for his Retirement security gig, glad hand Chicago politicians and while keeping aggressive law enforcement at bay until he checks out. His credibility is GONE.

#2 It was nice to see Mr. Jones' webcast. BUT, it was from December and he talked AT us. Do a live webcast with a 1 800 number call in and answer questions real time. NOW THAT'S Communication and transparency. Let everybody hear and see how serious he is. Yes he did set up a "confidential" web portal to send him messages. But none of us can see whats being said and redundant messages are probably being sent. Waste of his time and ours.Finally, rescind the NEW updated survey. Its going to be bad right now. Give it a few months, and let the field SEE what actions you are gonna take. But at the end of the day, he NEEDS to rely solely on Brandon and Turk because the reality is, he is out of here in months.

[Zorro]

Two excellent interviews that reiterate what many have said for a long time. Arrogance and refusal to address obvious problems led to this point.

[Iceman]

http://www.nranews.c...anews/guide/ipg

Anybody else see this?

http://video.foxnews...ylist_id=162726

[Iceman]

Anybody else see this?

http://video.foxnews...ylist_id=162726

Vince Kudos for continuing to put the TRUTH out there! They are playing musical chairs on taxpayer dollars!!!

I'm glad others stepped out and mimicked your message.

Keep the truth in the light!


Apparently we can now ALL agree that what we have been forced to make public could have and should have been handled before all this carnage. Read former SAC Bernie LaForests editorial on tickle the wire. He told them over a year ago, Don't lie, Don't deny. They should have listened. Reminder, the truth never changes, only the lies do.

[Jaime3]

Vince Kudos for continuing to put the TRUTH out there! They are playing musical chairs on taxpayer dollars!!!

I'm glad others stepped out and mimicked your message.

Keep the truth in the light!


Apparently we can now ALL agree that what we have been forced to make public could have and should have been handled before all this carnage. Read former SAC Bernie LaForests editorial on tickle the wire. He told them over a year ago, Don't lie, Don't deny. They should have listened. Reminder, the truth never changes, only the lies do.

[VINCENT A CEFALU]

Apparently we can now ALL agree that what we have been forced to make public could have and should have been handled before all this carnage. Read former SAC Bernie LaForests editorial on tickle the wire. He told them over a year ago, Don't lie, Don't deny. They should have listened. Reminder, the truth never changes, only the lies do.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/26/internal-memo-shows-atf-rank-and-file-dont-trust-brass/


Interesting enough!

[Patriot]

Medea

I checked and you are correct, the nurses are unionized. I have had some dealings with the police unions and while they have some value, I am not sure that I am ready for us to go there. The union has a voice in how management makes any changes, so there becomes another bureaucracy that everyone has to answer to. While I have seen them protect good employees, they also protect bad employees. The unions I have dealt with are hard liners and frankly they appear to be more concerned with the union and its power than the best interest of the dues paying members. Maybe it is a case of good concept and poor execution. What the union cannot do for us is fix the root problem of making bad choices for managers. I try to find easy fixes for big problems and simply put, if we operated like a big city police department and were able to promote and demote commanders based on performance, there would be some incentive for leaders to excel. Currently we operate like a college, get tenure and never have to answer for your decisions. Again to use big city police departments as an example. When corruption is present, the command staff is usually replaced by outsiders, conversly when there is no corruption, promotions are made from within. ATF is experiencing corruption at all levels and I am not confident that it can be corrected under the current leadership who have personal relationships in place. Until all the identified bad managers are sidelined and removed from leadership positions we will continue to tread water. I am not so nieve to think that the easy fix can be done, so I fear we will tread water for many years to come, Ultimately we will drown or be pulled into someones lifeboat, because clearly we are unable to swim on our own.

[Jaime3]

http://www.foxnews.c...nt-trust-brass/


Interesting enough!

[The Shadow]

I remember the Gallop Survey. I spoke to an agent that read through the results and looked at the number of replies from some offices. The funny thing is the numbers did not always match the number of personnel assigned to the offices. The total scores for questions did not match the scores personnel gave. He asked the agents in his office how many replied and what they gave as responses. They did not match up. The personal polling by him was taken in close knit offices of people he knew and trusted. An office he knew of had twice as many responding personnel as there were actually assigned to the office and the scores were much more favorable than the people said they gave. This was tendered to the person in charge of that project, and the agent was verbally berated. Ms. V. H. demanded to know what he was trying to do and who he thought he was asking such questions. All he did was present the information about miscalculated figures and asked if there was an honest error or if Gallop had made an error. Since tax payer money had been spent on an outside private contractor he thought there should have been some explanation or perhaps an inquiry to determine if there was an honest mistake, if the numbers were skewed for some other reason, or if there was outright fraud. He found it hard to believe the well known and respected contractor was in error. After being attacked by the actual person in charge of the project for merely pointing out some discrepancies, he figured ATF was the one responsible for any "errors".

This is not to say that current or future polls or surveys are not a good idea, but there needs to be transparency. Like so many things ATF promotes, look at the real numbers to see the real story. The stats published for the VCIT Program were called out by the OIG. Look hard at the stats ATF uses or misuses.

[Patriot]

Medea

Field evaluation of managers as well as peer reviews work. I know of several hospitals that have been doing it in their nursing programs. Maybe nurses are tougher than us, but they realize that someone not carrying their weight only shifts the responsibility to someone else, and they know that there are serious consequences to failing. Sometimes people really need a wake up call and no one is better postioned than a peer. Honest peer review can be enlightening and makes everyone better. The Gallop poll was a field evaluation of management. I had an opportunity to read some and I think they were honest. The problem was that managers thought they were perfect and took it personal, rather than learn something about themselves and improve. I think a peer review at the management level could be a good start. There are many good managers that unfortunately get painted with the same brush as the ego maniacal cowards (too harsh?) Frankly anything would be better than the crap evaluations that we do now, which are a complete waste of time, crafted by politically correct thinking HR people and of course, lawyers. ATF is all about punching holes in a ticket. Need annual evalution, check, need an office inspection, check, need someone for a detail,check, Doesn't matter if the person is the wrong person, we checked the box. . We can go on checking off boxes and never have any meaningfull results unless we change the way we do business. Until such time we realize the flaw of busness as usual, we will not be salvageable.

[Jaime3]

Maybe EVERYone should demand the return of the Gallop survey. At least for integrity and transparency sake!

If people have been crying out for accountability for years, peoples jobs and complaints in limbo, and people who complain are being kicked around like a can until November--is ATF really salvageable?

Maybe that's the question we need to really ask ourselves.