Excellent post FUBAR, however I would like to point out to you that Mr. Jones is not the most arrogant director this agency has had, nor is he the biggest fool. That distinction lays with John Magaw. But can you see the similarity? Mcgaw showed up after Waco in his magic cape and now B Toad shows up after F&F. Let’s at least give B Toad kudos for not requiring his own elevator. Magaw and his entourage did. B Toad is just the most recent arrogant fool, not the biggest.

For those outside of ATF, believe it or not there are actually agents employed by ATF that have been tasked to investigate really bad people. As a result of their investigations of those really bad people they have placed themselves and their families in harm’s way. ATF has actually conducted investigations and determined that those agents and their families were in danger as a result of the performance of their duties and made recommendations as to the security measures to be taken to reduce the threat levels. Many, many times ATF SAC’s and above have ignored those recommended security measures thereby leaving those agents and their families in harm’s way. I know it is hard to believe. But take solace in the fact that ATF provides a security detail to their own part time Director/part time U.S. Attorney before receiving any information that any bad guys even care who he is. Perhaps some Senators and Congressmen should take note of this and ask why they are not afforded their own personal security teams. Surely there are many, many more people that know who their elected representatives are than know who the latest is in a long line of temporary ATF Director’s. I know the current temporary Director says not to look at the past but let’s do that. When was the last attempted/actual assault on the Director of any U.S. Federal law enforcement agency? When was the last attempted/actual assault on an employee of a U.S. Federal law enforcement agency? When was the last attempted/actual assault on a U.S. representative to the House or Senate? If a position with a past safety record such as that of the temporary Director of ATF has to have a security team, who protects those that actually have a proven history of attempted/actual assault? And why does ATF ignore credible threats against their agents? Do they think ATF agents are super hero’s not requiring any assistance, or is it part of a larger issue of non-concern when it comes to murder and mayhem of anyone not within the upper Untouchable ranks of ATF?

The members of this forum needed to be aware that Dobyns' conduct is unethical and in direct conflict with the values he claims to stand for and hold others accountable for.

Are there different rules for different people? A double standard?
Do I have to go along to get along on this forum as well?

In an effort to adhere to the mission of this site, I'm calling on the webmaster not to delete this thread. Doing so will effectively be deleting the credibility of this site to expose all sides.

“In an effort to adhere to the mission of this site, I'm calling on the webmaster not to delete this thread. Doing so will effectively be deleting the credibility of this site to expose all sides”.

Really? You actually see the actions by active ATF upper management as anywhere near the same level as your accusations against Dobyns? If so there are absolutely no amount of words, stated facts or mere accusations that anyone could post that would make any sense to you. The actions you allege against Dobyns have no effect on the way ATF functions. Dobyns does not make policy or personnel decisions. He does not dictate the way criminal cases are investigated or ignored. He does not enforce the manner in which resources are allocated or denied. He does not dictate how allegations of illegal actions, violation of ATF policy, or disregard of the Orders are examined or overlooked by ATF. He is not an ATF manager. Depending on who is speaking will determine the amount of effect they state his life in ATF has or will have on the future of the agency as it stands today. But one thing is for sure, this site allows all to state their views as is evident by them allowing you to post here. So let’s get back to the exposing of all sides. Just look at the results what a leading Federal law enforcement agency tasked with conducting investigations have accomplished. How many street agents are awaiting termination, have already been terminated, or left in disgust after mere accusations of minor violations of ATF policy? Now how managers have had any action taken against them for serious violations of the law or ATF policy? Misuse of an ATF credit card will result in days off or termination for agents but not for SAC’s. Misinterpreted sexual talk will result in termination of days off for agents but actually having sexual relations with subordinates will result in action against ATF management. Misuse of ATF vehicles will result in termination or days off for agents but nothing happens to ATF managers for the same actions. Putting the public in eminent danger will get an agent fired or result in days off, but will get an ATF manager a transfer to HQ with no loss of pay. Permitting the exportation firearms to arm insurgents in a foreign nation with the expectation that they will be recovered at crime scenes, would result in an agent or U.S. citizen being extradited. But no loss of pay or rank results to those that manage such an operation in ATF.

But let’s compare the allegations of Dobyns and some Hollywood producers or others in the world of make believe to the real life death and destruction ATF finances. Boy am I upset with Dobyns. Thanks RobbG for opening my eyes to the mission of this site and to making for a safer America with that hard hitting expose. How many innocents were killed, lives were saved, and criminal charges filed by your investigation of the off duty conduct of a street agent? How many innocents were killed, lives were lost, and criminal charges not filed due to inept ATF managers allowed to spend the public’s money for their own personal gratification or vendettas?

Shadow, Madea wants to make it clear to everyone, including HQ, that you are NOT claiming that Kelvin did all of the things you just mentioned. Believe it or not folks, there’s actually a few he may not have done. Some were done by his buddies.

Ok, Madea is still pondering these latest developments. Was an investigation conducted into the statements made by Jay in this memo? It would seem that a sitting U.S. Attorney (if you’ve forgotten, that would be you Todd) would make a determination as to whether or not the statements Jay made were true. Did I.A. or the OIG investigate whether or not Torres perjured himself and committed acts of corruption? Are you telling me that U.S. Attorney Jones would sanction a suspension and once again VIOLATE an employee’s due process rights? Oh tell me it’s not so. Considering how many requests I have personally made asking for investigations on upper management, Madea just can not believe this could possibly be the case. Now, I know Julie Torres did not investigate whether or not John Torres committed perjury. After all they’re on the new Diversity Panel together. And how uncomfortable would that be?

Thanks for the correction Madea. I had not intended to say that he did all of the things listed. Most of those acts were committed by others in ATF management. Unfortunately, there are more than enough bad actors running the show and to attribute the misdeeds to only one would not be accurate.

The message HQ is sending to the field is loud and clear, cover-up and lie for management, at worst, you just get a letter. Tell the truth and get hammered. And isn’t Jay reporting misconduct in this memo? Maybe we have this all wrong. Instead of expecting management to apply the Crenshaw Standard to us, maybe we should all follow Crenshaw’s lead and just play it safe by lying and not reporting misconduct. I wonder if we get extra points if we have sex with our secretary? Honestly, I just wish someone in HQ would clarify the rules to this nasty game we find ourselves forced to play.

AT one time there was guidance in ATF Order 2130.1 – Conduct and Accountability. 2. RESPONSIBILITIES. Managers and supervisors are expected to serve as role models for all Bureau employees and, by their actions, set standards for appropriate behavior. Employees are required to know the standards and rules of conduct and to seek clarification from their supervisors when doubt exists.

Based on the history of unpunished deeds by ATF managers and supervisors, acceptable role model behavior apparently: includes using the government credit card for personal gain, personal relationships with subordinate females within your immediate chain of command, use of government vehicles to stimulate the economy at strip clubs, smuggling firearms on aircraft for professional athletes, use of ATF personnel as free bodyguards for personal friends, frequent memory losses of on duty incidents without lack of candor charges, self authoring magazine articles that divulged ATF covert recording equipment, alerting the media to ATF covert investigative training/techniques, destroying public safety equipment for personal gain, sleeping on duty, etc., etc., etc...

It appears as though they are the most recent recipients of the ATF welfare program. In addition to finding something for them to do to earn their pay, they should be removed from the SES pay system and lose all the perks that are attached.

They are still GS 1811 employees so treat them exactly the same as others with the title of Special Agent. Stop treating them as "Special" and treat them the way ATF treats the "Agents". Send them into exile at their residence sans their guns, badges, g-rides, and tell them to check in daily while monitoring their ATF computers. Fair and equatable treatment in the workplace. No more Untouchables in the management ranks. No more promotions, dubious laterals, or paid moves while in the shadow of illegal, immoral or unethical behavior.

Mr. B. Todd Jones, take your quote and apply it to other past movements seeking Hope and Change of a corrupt overbearing system like say the Civil Rights Movement, or the Women’s Rights Movement or any Victim’s Rights Movements. “Get over it and move on. Those issues are in the past so stop dwelling on them. We have a small group of people that keep re-hashing these past issues instead on concentrating on the future and this small group is trying to influence the changes we are trying to make”. How do you think those courageous people would react to a person in authority saying such a thing to them, Mr. B. Todd Jones? Look it up and see how they reacted. Through the passage of laws and the punishment of the offenders, they stepped out of their second class citizenship and achieved equality. Do you think ATF employees want anything more than freedom from the separate but equal system ATF management currently has in place?

Let’s see how history has actually repeated itself in the management of ATF: Treating others in a discriminatory manner by unleashing the police dogs of ATF’s CCO and PRB, using harsher punishment against mere agents for ambiguous violations, while the overlords in power get away with blatant violations of not only the Orders but actual crimes. CCO bragging about abusing their power in the court system to bankrupt complainants. Sounds like Jim Crow all over again. “Get over it and move on. Those issues are in the past so stop dwelling on them. We have a small group of people that keep re-hashing these past issues instead on concentrating on the future and this small group is trying to influence the changes we are trying to make”.

I think it’s a good time to review the little propaganda meeting in Atlanta yesterday. B. Todd dismissed major concerns with, “Get over it and move on. Those issues are in the past so stop dwelling on them. We have a small group of people that keep re-hashing these past issues instead on concentrating on the future and this small group is trying to influence the changes we are trying to make”. Translation: Shut the hell up. Do not ask me any more questions about what I did yesterday. YOU are making me angry. YOU are just a small, insignificant group of ‘disgruntles’. YOU will NOT influence the changes I am pretending to make. Give me a break Todd. What you are saying is, ‘Don’t look at what I did TO you yesterday, look at what I’m telling you I will do FOR you tomorrow. I promise I’ll be a good boy from now on. Trust me. Here, take another sip of the Kool-Aid. You’ll like it, I promise’.

To the question about the ATF attys being under every desk and behind every door, Todd’s response was that there was a reorganization plan to determine the need for their advice in certain situations. At the risk of sounding redundant here, the FAAP panel recommended this reorganization. This recommendation was misguided. I’m sure the panel had the best of intentions, but you cannot reorganize a group of rats. Picture trying to herd a large group of rats. Think that will go well? If these attys are left in place, they will never sit quietly and do what they’re told. Remember, they run this outfit, not the other way around. No one can “reorganize” them. They make the rules now. Why? Because now there are so MANY of them.

To the IOI, Todd basically said, ‘we are a law enforcement agency and you don’t count’. Good move Todd.

Todd went on to say that ATF has a bright future and that the new ATF will be a small agency that works only quality investigations. Someone needs to tell Todd that every director before him has used this same line of crap at their pep rallies.

When asked why ATF didn’t fight the FBI over our explosive jurisdiction, he replied that we wouldn’t win. Again, Todd is telling us to shut the hell up and STOP fighting, to just lay down and do everything the nice man tells us to do. Is it that we won’t win Todd, or that you simply refuse to engage Mr. Part-Time Temporary Director?

When asked about the explosive canine program, we were told it would be cut due to the budget. Remember, we have all these attorneys in the OCC on the payroll creating very expensive litigation to justify their positions. We can’t afford dog food because of those bastards.

Then Todd goes on to say that the problem is that he doesn’t know how long he will be in this position. He said this like it was a bad thing. Um, Mr. Todd, please don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. This is just one of the many reasons you have no credibility Todd. We know you can tell us anything today because you will be gone tomorrow. Why is the taxpayer having to pay for these little pep rallies? What a colossal waste of money.

Speaking of wasting taxpayer money, how much did it cost to have 18 panel members fly to D.C. to meet with Brandon only to be told to shut the hell up.

Mr. Part-Time Temporary, it’s true that the group willing to stand in your face and tell you your baby is ugly is indeed small, but the group standing behind them and nodding their collective heads is the field. Did you not just read the survey?

I remember the Gallop Survey. I spoke to an agent that read through the results and looked at the number of replies from some offices. The funny thing is the numbers did not always match the number of personnel assigned to the offices. The total scores for questions did not match the scores personnel gave. He asked the agents in his office how many replied and what they gave as responses. They did not match up. The personal polling by him was taken in close knit offices of people he knew and trusted. An office he knew of had twice as many responding personnel as there were actually assigned to the office and the scores were much more favorable than the people said they gave. This was tendered to the person in charge of that project, and the agent was verbally berated. Ms. V. H. demanded to know what he was trying to do and who he thought he was asking such questions. All he did was present the information about miscalculated figures and asked if there was an honest error or if Gallop had made an error. Since tax payer money had been spent on an outside private contractor he thought there should have been some explanation or perhaps an inquiry to determine if there was an honest mistake, if the numbers were skewed for some other reason, or if there was outright fraud. He found it hard to believe the well known and respected contractor was in error. After being attacked by the actual person in charge of the project for merely pointing out some discrepancies, he figured ATF was the one responsible for any "errors".

This is not to say that current or future polls or surveys are not a good idea, but there needs to be transparency. Like so many things ATF promotes, look at the real numbers to see the real story. The stats published for the VCIT Program were called out by the OIG. Look hard at the stats ATF uses or misuses.

I don’t care what his sexual orientation is. I do care about him putting the lives of those in a hotel at risk by destroying the safety measure that allows people to escape death by toxic gases or fire. ATF at one time touted it was an agency making a safer America and the NRT was a shining example of that. The NRT worked many fatal hotel fires.

I do care when an ATF Supervisor in a room paid for by ATF puts the occupants of that hotel in harm’s way. What does that say about his personal and professional judgment skills? There was a time in ATF when the mere potential for the agency to be looked at in disfavor was enough to take disciplinary action against an employee. But things have changed.

Upper managers can smuggle firearms onto commercial aircraft and be declared American hero’s, rack up personal bills on the Government credit card and walk away laughing, have government owned vehicles towed from strip clubs as a result of conduct not related to any criminal investigation, and destroy the early warning system in hotels where citizens expect to be safe and sleep soundly due to laws mandating that smoke alarms be installed and functional. The public has a right to know why people of this caliber are in charge of an organization tasked to investigate and enforce so many serious public safety laws.

None of the things I mentioned are related to their conduct during an actual criminal investigation. They all reflect on the personal conduct, judgment, and accountability of ATF upper managers while abusing their government position for their own personal gain. Incidents and alleged criminal behavior like that normally would be red flags to responsible people that something is amiss with those government employees and perhaps they should not be in positions of power and trust. But instead that type of conduct is made acceptable by the organization as it is rewarded time and time again.

This is yet another example of behavior that would be looked upon as criminal and prohibit you and I from positions of trust (and security clearance since he was actually arrested for a felony), but has been deemed as what is acceptable to ATF’s latest acting Director.

Thomas Brandon just announced the promotion of Russel Vanderwerf from Deputy Chief Field Operations Field Management Staff to Deputy Chief Office of the Director Strategic Management. I call it a promotion even though both are GS-1801-15 positions because any field agent arrested for a felony would NOT be promoted and would be lucky to still have their job. But once again and now in the so called NEW administration, an upper manager commits an actual crime and nothing adverse happens to them. There are many posts detailing the crimes Vanderwerf is alleged to have committed while staying in an ATF paid hotel room. I wonder what ever happened to the criminal counts in New Orleans he was on bond for when transferred to HQ?

"I enthusiastically joined the inside,
To make a difference on the outside.
Only to discover,
Making a difference on the outside,
Makes no difference to the inside".

Quote from an ATF James E. Little - Concern for People Award recipient and victim of the corrupted system.