I guess the lives of those defending the country have little value under this new regime

Wow disgusting.

"If I had a son..... I would forget his name"


http://www.realclear...trol_agent.html

Is this what you are referring to?

http://seattletimes....formant13m.html


ATF funds used to kidnap, rape a woman in an ATF funded hotel room?

I did not know ATF management could run their own CI's.

Interesting

I sure ATF hope is doing something about these violent armed thugs committing hate crimes now in Philadelphia.

http://www.wnd.com/2...ism-in-america/

I think ATF should start a task force like they did with the church fires to address these attacks

According to those instructing at FLETC ATF has gotten rid of the red man drills because they were too difficult. two out of my academy class failed out because they could not pass the red man drills. One failed out due to firearms quals

The TEA test has been really dumbed down the past 20 years and no one can contest that fact.

Not one word on the ATF web site referencing St Patrick's Day.


Many other ethic groups celebrated on the ATF web page daily but not the lowly Irish.


My grandfather who emigrated from Ireland told many stories of Irish discrimination.

I guess the Irish are not still not held in very high esteem in the ATF "family"


Big surprise

So the question is: Is it is possible to promote to upper management in ATF without comitting some type of serious crime,lying repeatedly under oath, stealing, wasting tax payers' money, going to strip clubs with your tax payer funded GOV, driving DUI and getting caught reepatedly,showing up drunk to work, missing work ( AWOL) for months because you are gambling at casinos, molesting employees, graduating at the bottom of your FLETC class etc, etc?

No really is it possible?

Many hard working, very competent agents with character, pride in the agency, great work ethic and experience have tried to enter management in ATF and bring some respect, pride and honor back to the agency and have been denied.

Will it always be this way?

Yes HSI will be hiring and some might think the grass is greener on the other side. I can tell you that while HSI might not have the same level of corruption that seems to exist in the upper echelon at ATF, it has many inherent problems of its own. So think long and hard before rolling the dice and abandoning your ATF career. Working for HSI, ICE or whatever they are calling themselves at the moment may not be all you think it is going to be.

As a govt employee and military vet with close to 30 years service I am more that aware that every government agency has its own problems. The fact of the mater is that there is a really strong possibility that many ATF agents will be losing their jobs in the near future. As a LEO it is always wise to have a back-up plan. As far as I know ICE ( HSI) is the only fed LEO agency that will be hiring and will be doing so granting lateral transfers to experienced agents.. I would be very concerned now as an ATF agent supporting my family in the future.Take a look at all of the ongoing street agent terminations. This is only the beginning... There is no guarantee of a career future in ATF, at least not for street agents. Mgt will take care of their own as they did after Waco and will continue doing today like in F&F. Simply put better to have a job than to be unemployed cheerleader for ATF in my humble opinion.

Just something to consider and I may be wrong

And word is a lot is going on behind the scenes in ATF HQ that the field is not aware of.

Well, since this will not be a constructive conversation I will make this my last. First, I'm sorry my windows were broken out by a neighbor while I slept and stole my gear. That was my fault. You are wrong, I did not say all is well, I just said we are functioning. The only way we can do better is highlight the work that is done. All is not well, we have a lot of hard work to do. I do come to work prepared as a law enforcement officer. When all is said and done, if something happens we are Agents first. Lastly, my name is on the banner - is yours?

I commend you for trying, but the current state of ATF management is abysmal.( No big secret of course) The perception of the ATF street agent and American public is that ATF management is comprised mostly of criminals, serial liars, cowards, perverts, incompetents willing to do anything, including committing very serious crimes, cover-ups to keep and increase their power. It appears human life holds no value for them. The field employees have ZERO faith in ATF HQ and do not believe any of the propaganda. Agents in the field are being told there will be NO money next year to do their job of fighting the worst of the worst most dangerous criminals, thugs, street gangs, organized crime in America. While word is many in HQ, including the felonious F&F crew, are getting big bonuses this year. Can you confirm this? There is supposedly money for secret ATF academy classes for special people with radically lowered standards scheduled for 2012 even though ATF mgt will be laying -off ( firing) hundreds of honest, hard-working agents, IOI's, support staff.

Word is SAC's, ASAC's received orders from HQ to fire agents for any minor reason. Any truth to this?

HSI ( ICE) will be hiring next year and will be accepting laterals. Younger agents should seriously consider this. Much more professional organization. You can go work for organization you can be proud of, not ashamed

I am often critical of the leadership of ATF, and at times the guys who are trying to do right are overlooked. Kudos to Gil, Kumor and Rowley for doing the right thing. Unfortunately it appears that they were either lied to or just ignored. Darren Gil was articulate, thoughtful and credible in today's hearing. He is a true professional in every way.

I think Mr. Gil did a very admirable job of testifying. Was referring to the management who were present during the meeting with Martin who ran away.

I find the behavior of ATF HQ staff interesting in this article. When confronted with what appeared to be serious felony firearms violations they all ran away. Probably still hiding under their desks in HQ. Am sure when this blows over they will crawl out from underneath their desks and all slap each other on their backs and say what brave agents they were. They will then rotate out to leadership positions in the field as SAC's, ASAC's AD's wearing monogramed shirts ( what's up with the monogramed shirt? It does not make you a leader ya know) to once again harass field employees. Meanwhile field agents who came forward over a year ago to try and expose F&F are fired, suspended, threatened.

How come not one person in HQ mgt tried to stop this? What do you do in ATF HQ?

The only hope to save this agency are the honest ATF field agents

Amazing



http://www.foxnews.c...ough-operation/

The failed federal anti-gunrunning program known as Operation Fast and Furious got so out of control in November 2009, it appeared the U.S. government was single-handedly "arming for war" the Sinaloa Cartel, documents show, even as U.S. officials kept lying to fellow agents in Mexico about the volume of guns it helped send south of the border.
Those shocking allegations are revealed in the latest congressional report investigating the operation.
At one point, agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives say guns sold under the program took just 24 hours to travel from a gun store in Phoenix to a crime scene in Mexico. ATF agents there pleaded for help but were told nothing about Fast and Furious, which was intended to let guns "walk" in order to track them to higher-profile traffickers.
RELATED STORIES
Feds Silent on How Convicted Felons Bought Guns in 'Operation Fast and Furious'

Meanwhile, the report claims the agents' superiors in Washington met every Tuesday, to review the latest sales figures and the number of guns recovered in Mexico.
"How long are you going to let this go on?" Steve Martin, an assistant director of intelligence operations asked the ATF top brass at meeting Jan. 5, 2010, according to a transcript of the meeting contained in the congressional report. None of the men responded and several quickly left the room, the transcript reveals.
By Feb. 27, 2010, Lanny Breuer, the head of the Criminal Division of the Justice Department in Washington, D.C., was allegedly told that the ATF had successfully helped sell 1,026 weapons worth more than $650,000 to members of the Sinaloa cartel. The briefing included all top ATF officials, including the agents in charge in Los Angeles and Houston, as well as a half dozen top Justice Department attorneys.
"So there's no doubt after this briefing that guns in this case were being linked to the Sinaloa cartel?" a congressional investigator asked Martin during a July 2011 interview.
"I'd say yes." Martin replied.
"Very apparent to everyone in the room?” the investigator asked.
"That's correct," Martin said.
Meanwhile, ATF agents in Mexico were seeing a flood of weapons coming south. When asked, ATF brass told the resident ATF attaché in Mexico things were "under control."
"They were afraid I was going to brief the ambassador on it or brief the government of Mexico," said Darren Gil, former ATF attaché in Mexico.
For months, officials assured Gil that Fast and Furious was going to be "shut down," but it wasn't.
"We're getting hurt down here," Gil told ATF International Affairs Chief Daniel Kumor.
Kumor reportedly raised Gil's concerns and was told the case "was going great," and nothing happened until the death of Agent Brian Terry in December 2010.
Ironically, a year before, in December 2009, Southwest Border Czar Ray Rowley threatened to expose Operation Fast and Furious because of "the large number of guns that had already been trafficked" but ATF officials talked him out of it.
When the case was finally revealed in the press, Gil said, "never in my wildest dreams ever would I have thought of (gun walking) as an (investigative) technique. Never. Ever. It was just inconceivable to me."
"You don't lose guns. You don't walk guns. You don't let guns out of your sight."
The precise number of casualties in Mexico isn't known, but ATF officials confirm the murder of Mario Gonzales Rodriguez, brother of the Chihuahua attorney general, with a Fast and Furious gun.
According to the report, the U.S. knew for eight months of the link between the ATF operation and his death, but refused to tell any Mexican officials. Finally the acting ATF attaché told the Mexican Attorney General Maricela Morales. Her reply, "Hijole," which translates into "Oh my."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1TDZFOXpH

Any legal scholar can clearly see that, based upon ATF's past patterns and practices, they must promote Vince to an SES positions. Any decent lawyer would have a cakewalk .

Funny that dangerous hate-filled racists and serial purjures ( there are many) such as VM in ATF are not fired but celebrated as heroes. How many EEO complaints did she have filed against her? 10, 20, 50?

This agency needs lots of fix'n

After 20 years I have come to the very same conclusions. And while I have no doubt that other gov agencies operate like this to some extent, I have yet to talk to the attorney who represents agents from various agencies not say, "I've never seen anything like it" about ATF. I have always felt that one of the reasons it was so much worse at ATF in this regard was that before Waco, most people had never heard of ATF. It was much harder to get any type of media coverage (and then political help) b/c of this. And if you did get someone to finally listen, what you told was usually so unbelievable, that you were just written off as a nut.

Also Ralph, loved your "Medusa" analogy. The main attorney who used to handle all the cases against the agents was a Michelle Davis King. She represented the agency in it's personnel actions, as well as represented everything wrong and twisted in ATF. She trained Eleanor Loos if that tells you anything. Anyway, bless her heart, Ms. King was not an attractive woman and her hair was very curly. My attorney, the late Prather Randle, started calling her "Medusa", and we never referred to her as anything else. When I looked at her, I saw pure evil. It was obvious that she truly enjoyed what she did and was not merely an attorney for ATF after a personnel action, but that she was up to her very unattractive neck in the conspiracies to go after any agents who dared stand against HQ, and no despicable act was beneath her. I don't think I've ever been as personally offended by another human being in my life. She was truly representative of what HQ was all about and I see that not much has changed - there are just new names.

Since there is so much confusion between the fine agents in the field and snakes in HQ, maybe instead of referring to "ATF" when we talk about the corruption in HQ, we can just refer to "Medusa".

With the number of innocent lives destroyed and lost by incompetent or arrogant ATF management, I think the word "evil" would aptly describe them. No other federal law enforcement agency has this level of problems and I have worked with all of the major ones.

Like in Waco when DOJ needs some dirty work done they know to come to ATF

ATFSES I mean ATFSA

The only way to change ATF is to:

-Enter management and try to change policies and management decisions.
But the promotion process is so corrupted that competent honest hard working agents are shut out of the promotion process. It is a well-known fact that certain groups and individuals are given the answers and cheat sheets before attending the Assessment Center. Many very good agents have been given low scores at the assessment center because there come from the wrong background. Agents now know the AC is so corrupt they do not even bother putting in for it. ASAC assessment test scores were retroactively just lowered to get certain people into management according to good sources. The entire system is so corrupt it is not even funny anymore. What happened last Fall with ATF's secret hiring process? OPM policies require the general public be notified and ATF ignored this. Why did ATF lower the standards at the academy for recent secret hired classes? Will this improve ATF or give ATF an entire new set of future management rejects? Please respond ATFSA

-Speak out and offer suggestions and try and stop illegal, dangerous management actions. It think Vince, Jay, Dodson and others just did this. Look how management treated them. Vince is without a job. There are quite a few senior agents all over ATF now being terminated due to minor infractions. I mean really minor while management commits major violations, fraud and they are promoted. And how can you defend the promotion of glory hole?

Why did JT just reveal ATF law enforcement sensitive uc techniques and practices to the public? If I had any CI's I would deactivate them immediately because I would no longer feel I could guarantee their safety. How many good experienced agents have left ATF under JT?

Many very good experienced good agents all over the country are looking to leave ATF now and know one is stopping them. Typical SAC/ASAC answer when he/she hears that an ATF agent is leaving for another agency is "Good we don't want you" No wonder so many are leaving now.

How does one improve ATF? Please be specific and don't use the standard reply "By doing good cases" A typical ATF agent does the work of 6-8 FBI agents now with no support from management and gets no credit. Many agents, IOI's in ATF come from military and local law enforcement backgrounds and possess very strong moral characters and an ingrained sense of right and wrong. That is why they are so pissed off when they witness ATF mgt fraud, criminal behavior and bad management practices with zero consequences.

The policies and orders of some in upper ATF mgt has escalated and just resulted in the lost lives of brave fed LEO's just like in Waco.

Should ATF agents IOI's just be silent and allow more deaths?

But Vince was fired and they all received, at least the SES'ers, huge bonuses last year while perpetuating F&F. Deny deny lie shred and blame the street agent- right Vince?

None will lose their job and most likely they will all give themselves more huge tax payer funded bonuses this year for a job well done. That has always been the ATF way. No one in ATF management was terminated after knowingly sending 4 agents to their deaths after Waco.

The ATF culture remains the same and history will repeat itself

Okay, okay, I've got this figured out. If the Acting Director's first priority was to terminate Cefalu at the height of the F&F crisis (with the real threat of indictments against executives and possible abolishment of the agency), his next moves should be: discipline the whistleblowers for violating the media policy...send the former SAC of PHX to Mexico anyways (because, by God, he is behind him 100% and this will all blow over soon enough)...promote the "detailed" ASACs to SAC backfills...promote G/S PHX VII to ASAC of PHX...and...ah what the hell...reinstate the former SAC of Atlanta as the Deputy Director. Sure, this is dark satire, but something close to this will happen. Just watch brothers and sisters...just watch.

The insanity is only just beginning... ATF management is super pissed-off for being exposed. History will repeat itself as it always does and management most certainly will be looking to fire many many more good honest hard working street agents as payback. Dark days ahead.